The luxury called atheism
Was it possible to be an atheist, say about two thousand years ago? Was the
belief in say, there is no God, conceivable?
KR I don’t know about kritha yuga or day 1 of the earth. But the
earliest scripture Rig vedam speaks abiut Nasthika AND aSAT, Ramayanam the
oldest in age known speaks verbal dialogues of atheism through the
character charavaka.
I Book II : Ayodhya Kanda - Book Of Ayodhya
Chapter [Sarga] 108
Introduction
A Brahmana named Jabali tries to persuade Rama to accept the kingdom by
advocating the theory of Nastikas (non-believers), saying that he need not
get attached to his father's words and remain in the troublesome forest.
Jabali requests Rama to enjoy the royal luxuries, by accepting the crown.
आश्वासयन्तम् भरतम् जाबालिर् ब्राह्मण उत्तमः |
उवाच रामम् धर्मज्नम् धर्म अपेतम् इदम् वचः || २-१०८-१
A brahmana called Jabali spoke the following unrighteous words to Rama, who
knew righteousness and who was assuaging Bharata as aforesaid
साधु राघव मा भूत् ते बुद्धिर् एवम् निरर्थका |
प्राकृतस्य नरस्य इव आर्य बुद्धेः तपस्विनः || २-१०८-२
"Enough, O Rama! Let not your wisdom be rendered void like a common man,
you who are distinguished for your intelligence and virtue."
कः कस्य पुरुषो बन्धुः किम् आप्यम् कस्य केनचित् |
यद् एको जायते जन्तुर् एक एव विनश्यति || २-१०८-३
"Who is related to whom? What is there to be obtained by anything and by
whom? Every creature is born alone and dies alone."
"O, Rama! He who clings to another, saying, 'This is my father, this is my
mother, he should be known as one who has lost his wits. There is none who
belongs to another."
"O, Rama! As one who passes the a strange village spends the night the and
the next day leaves that place and continues his journey, so are mother,
father, home and possessions to a man; they are but a resting place. The
wise do not become attached to them".
"O, chief of men! You as such should not abandon your father's kingdom in
order to dwell in a lonely forest, that is excruciating hard to traverse
and full of thorny thickets."
"Get yourself crowned in the prosperous kingdom of Ayodhya. That city is
waiting for you, with your locks duly unfound."
"O, prince! Enjoy the royal luxuries worthy of you. Move around in Ayodhya
as Indra the Lord of celestials does in heaven!"
"Dasaratha is none to you nor you in anyway to him. That king is another
and you are another. Hence, do what is told by me?"
"The father is only the seed of a being. The sperm and the ovum blend at
the right time in the mother's womb, so that a human being is born in this
world."
"The king has gone, where he had to go. This is the fate of all being
unnecessarily, you are still frustrated over the matter."
"I pity all those whosoever, devoted to wealth and religious merit, not
other (who are devoted to sense-enjoyment), for, they, having undergone
suffering in this life, have met with extermination after death."
अष्टका पितृ दैवत्यम् इत्य् अयम् प्रसृतो जनः |
अन्नस्य उपद्रवम् पश्य मृतो हि किम् अशिष्यति || २-१०८-१४
"These people say, 'The eighth day should be given up to sacrifices for the
spirits of our ancestors.' See the waste of food. What will a dead man eat?"
"If food eaten by one here, reaches another's body, then let a sacrifice be
offered for those who are setting out on a distant journey. Will it not
become a food on their path?"
"Perform sacrifices, distribute gifts, consecrate yourselves, practise
ansterity and renunciation' - These writings are composed by learned men
for the sake of inducing others to give."
"O, the highly wise! Arrive at a conclusion, therefore, that there is
nothing beyond this Universe. Give precedence to that which meets the eye
and turn your back on what is beyond our knowledge."
"Honour the judgment of the wise and regarding that which is approved by
all, accept the kingdom as propitiated by Bharata."
II Chapter 109 - Shri Rama replies in words based on
the Vedas Ayodhya kandam
Shri Rama, patiently giving ear to the utterance of Javali, replied with a
due sense of judgment and in words based on his belief that those duties
enjoined in the Vedas, should be fulfilled. “O Muni, that which you have
spoken with the desire to please me, is not authorized, nor are your
admonitions just, since, even the most cursory analysis proves them to be
false. O Sage, in the assembly of the good, men who are not self-subdued
and who are wanting in integrity and those who act contrary to what is
ordered by the scriptures, are not honoured. It is his conduct that renders
man virtuous, a coward or a hero and transmutes impurity to purity. Should
I embrace error and abandon the authority of my elders, relinquishing
rectitude and honour, as also moral conduct and the Vedic ordinance, then
I, conforming to your beliefs and sacrificing prudence, would forfeit the
respect of wise and virtuous men.
“Following your counsel, were I to cease to pursue the way of truth and
tread the lower path, by what means should I attain heaven? Were I to
depart from the moral code, then every man might act according to his
inclination, since the subject mirrors the king, in action.
“Above all, a sovereign should manifest probity, benevolence, his chief
duty being to uphold truth; truth is verily the kingdom, by truth is the
world supported.
“The gods and sages esteem truth as the highest principle. He who utters
truth attains the supreme state. Men fear a liar as they do a venomous
serpent, truth is the root of all felicity and the support not only of this
world, but the best means of attaining heaven!
“Whatever is offered in sacrifice, whatever austerity is undertaken has its
foundation in truth, so the Vedas declare, hence truth is the most sacred
of all things.
“One maintains a family, another governs the whole world, another falls
into hell, another attains heaven in accordance with the fruit of his
actions! Acquainted with the law of Karma founded on truth, ought I not to
prove my sire a devotee of that truth? Why should not I, who have pledged
my word, follow that which I have accepted as truth? Honouring my father’s
vow, I shall never abandon the way of truth either for the sake of
governing a kingdom or through being misled by others or through ignorance
or anger. Hast you not heard that neither the Gods nor the ancestors
receive the offerings of one who is irresolute, infirm of purpose and false
to his word?
“I hold truth as the supreme virtue of mankind. I desire to reverence that
truth upheld by men of old. Should I follow the duty of a warrior, I should
be unjust. To do that which is false is worthy only of mean, covetous and
depraved souls. Should I pursue that crooked path, indicated by you, then I
should perpetrate falsehood, through the mind, the body and the soul. Those
who uphold truth acquire land, renown, fame, and heaven also; therefore,
let all men utter truth and act according to truth I
“That which you, after much deliberation, believest to be true, and
recommendest to me is wholly improper. O how can I disregard the command of
my sire, that I should reside in the forest? When I pledged my word in the
presence of my father, to enter the forest, Queen Kaikeyi was rendered glad
at heart, how should I now give her cause for distress?
“Giving up falsehood and deceit, differentiating between what should and
should not be done, subduing the senses, possessed of full faith in the
Vedic injunctions, I shall devote myself to the fulfilment of my father’s
will!
“By sacrifice, one acquires the state of Indra and enters heaven. The sages
by virtue of sacrifice have gone thither.”
The illustrious and glorious Ramacandra, highly displeased by the
materialistic arguments of Javali spoke thus in terms of refutation and
reproof: “O Javali, by speaking the truth, by pursuing the duties of their
caste and station, by manifesting their valour in time of need, by gentle
speech, by service of their spiritual preceptor, the gods and unexpected
guests, men attain heaven! Therefore, those brahmins instructed in truth,
pursue virtue with a single mind in accordance with their caste and station
and eagerly await their entrance to Brahmaloka. O Javali, I perceive with
regret the action of my illustrious parent in permitting one of atheistic
ideas, who has fallen from the path of rectitude enjoined in the Vedas, to
remain in his court. Those who preach the heretical doctrine of the
Charvaka school, are not only infidels, but have deviated from the path of
truth. It is the duty of a monarch to deal with such persons as with
felons, nor should men of understanding and learning stand in the presence
of such atheists.
“O Javali, those versed in wisdom, who preceded you, performed many holy
acts by virtue of which they acquired eminence here and in the spiritual
realm. Those sages have ever practised harmlessness, truth, asceticism,
charity, benevolence and sacrifice.
“O Javali, those who fulfil their spiritual duty, who are the foremost in
deeds of charity, and who harm none, who frequent the assemblies of the
good and are revered by all men, they are without sin, their name shall
live for ever as that of our illustrious Guru, Shri Vasishtha.”
Rama, having uttered these harsh words to Javali, he, with humility
addressed Rama saying: “O Rama, I am no atheist; on this occasion, I
assumed this atheistical disguise in order to turn you from your purpose
and persuade you to return to the capital!”
K RAJARAM IRS 9 9 24
On Mon, 9 Sept 2024 at 18:29, Markendeya Yeddanapudi <
[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> --
> *Mar**The luxury called atheism*
>
> *Was it possible to be an atheist, say about two thousand years ago? Was
> the belief in say, there is no God, conceivable? In the arctic circle, say
> Alaska, the males had to traverse miles and miles in the icy wastes, the
> cold chilling their bones, in search of an animal, usually a mammoth (the
> elephant of those days double the size of today’s elephant),to hunt for
> their desperate food. They starved for days and days, traversed miles and
> miles, praying to God to make available some animals for hunting. When
> ultimately they found the animal, they again prayed to God not to allow
> that mammoth to escape or kill all of them, because they were killing an
> elephant with mainly wooden spheres! They braved with the basic belief that
> God was watching and helping them. There were tribes that believed that God
> himself appeared as that mammoth and that he was only testing their
> courage. A few died in the hunt, but they again believed that those dead
> were actually the blessed because God needed them. Often the bravest that
> took the greatest risks died, and they believed that God wanted those very
> brave to serve him, a God’s basic right.*
>
> *The function of the women in the tribe was to produce regularly and
> quickly new babies, as the adults died in hunting or in warfare with the
> rival tribes. The birth of a female baby was a boon because she will
> produce children which will add to the population of the tribe. Nature was
> terrible in its raw confrontation. The people sensed with all their sense
> organs in the darkness of the icy wastes where one’s eyes were not of much
> use. Belief in God helped the sense organs. Life without belief in God was
> death in those days. The average life span was twenty years or less. The
> age of the grand old men of those days was about forty years. Sickness was
> God’s curse and the witch doctor performed the needed dance to get the cure
> or drive away the devil.*
>
> *BELIEF WAS THE BASIC FOUNDATION OF LIVING IN THOSE DAYS.*
>
> *In those days disbelief was stupidity, actually a disease, a grave sin.*
>
> *Everywhere on earth in those days belief propelled great adventures. The
> adventurers lived in the raw nature and developed special talents that made
> them sense many of the portents of nature—earth quakes, cyclones,
> tornadoes...*
>
> *I have seen a Chinese a film where deliberate belief was practised. The
> Guru asked his disciples to use a floating leaf as a base to lightly step
> on and jump away and ultimately cross the stream. The disciples jumped from
> one leaf to another and actually succeeded in crossing. The leaf by itself
> was no base, but it was belief that it was a base, that helped. The belief
> was deliberately cultivated though all knew that the leaf could not really
> support. They won over their rationality which they took as weakness.*
>
> *What has science today substituted? We do not believe in nature at all! *
>
> *In those days, the basic belief was –God is everywhere. Today the belief
> is—Disease causing bacteria and virus are everywhere.*
>
> *Technique means the method or trick of. Ology means the study of.
> Technology means the study of techniques. There can be a good technology
> for the cultivation of positive beliefs---the spiritual technology.*
>
> *YM Sarma*
>
> *Chat GPT*
>
> *"The Luxury Called Atheism" contemplates the idea that atheism is a
> modern phenomenon, far removed from the raw, survivalist conditions faced
> by ancient humans. The piece asserts that belief in God or gods was
> essential for early human communities, especially in harsh environments
> such as the Arctic Circle or during perilous hunts for large animals like
> the mammoth. In these settings, belief wasn't simply a matter of spiritual
> faith but a critical survival mechanism. The early humans depended on
> divine intervention, or at least the belief in such intervention, to
> motivate them through life-threatening challenges.*
>
>
>
> *### Key Themes:*
>
>
>
> *1. **Survival and Belief:***
>
> * - In ancient times, nature was fierce and unpredictable. People
> believed that only divine forces could control their fate, whether it was a
> successful hunt or survival against illness. There was no room for
> disbelief, as the unknown and hostile world required something greater than
> human capabilities to explain and manage.*
>
>
>
> *2. **Cultural and Religious Practices:***
>
> * - Rituals, prayers, and sacrifices were not just religious acts but
> methods of coping with fear, hunger, and death. The belief that God was
> present in every aspect of life—from the animals they hunted to the storms
> they faced—provided a psychological buffer against the overwhelming
> challenges of nature.*
>
>
>
> *3. **The Role of Women and Reproduction:***
>
> * - In these communities, fertility was revered. Women were valued for
> their ability to produce children, ensuring the tribe’s survival. This also
> had a religious dimension, as fertility was often seen as a divine
> blessing.*
>
>
>
> *4. **Belief as an Evolutionary Tool:***
>
> * - The text suggests that belief in God was more than just a spiritual
> need; it was a survival strategy. By instilling purpose and courage,
> religious belief helped tribes face dangers and the uncertainties of life.*
>
>
>
> *5. **Contrast with Modern Science:***
>
> * - The piece contrasts this deep, survival-based belief system with
> modern science, which focuses on bacteria, viruses, and empirical evidence.
> Today, technology replaces the necessity of faith in God for survival, and
> the natural connection to belief has been lost.*
>
>
>
> *### Broader Implications:*
>
>
>
> *The essay posits that belief in God was not a luxury, but a necessity in
> the early stages of human evolution. Today, atheism and scientific
> rationality can be seen as a byproduct of technological advancement and the
> relative ease with which many of us now live, making the need for divine
> intervention less apparent. Sarma points to the idea that while atheism is
> more feasible today, it may still be missing an essential emotional and
> spiritual element that once guided human experience in a more direct way. *
>
>
>
> *In essence, Sarma suggests that atheism is a form of privilege that can
> only arise in societies that have transcended the more immediate survival
> challenges that once necessitated belief in higher powers.*
>
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