----- Forwarded Message ----- *From:* N Sekar <[email protected]> *To:* Madras Sivaraman <[email protected]> *Cc:* [email protected] <[email protected]>; Narayanaswamy Sekar <[email protected]>; Yeddanapudi Markandeyulu < [email protected]>; Vanakkam Subbu <[email protected]>; Chittanandam V R <[email protected]>; YM <[email protected]>; Dr Sundar < [email protected]>; Venkat Raman <[email protected]>; Ravi mahajan < [email protected]>; Venkat Giri <[email protected]>; Ranganathan <[email protected]>; SRIRAMAJAYAM < [email protected]>; Mani APS <[email protected]>; Rangarajan T.N.C. < [email protected]>; Mathangi K. Kumar <[email protected]>; Srinivasan Sridharan <[email protected]>; Rama <[email protected]>; Gopala Krishnan <[email protected]>; Sanathana group < [email protected]>; Jambunathan Iyer < [email protected]>; thatha patty <[email protected]>; Rajaram Krishnamurthy <[email protected]> *Sent:* Sunday, August 18, 2024 at 02:13:55 PM GMT+4 *Subject:* Re: [KeralaIyers] The true story of india contd KR IRS 17824 18824 contd word doc attached
Thanks. Each one is entitled to his or her view. That's why our ancient Texts present various view points, including seemingly contradictory ones. Sisupala's castigation of Krishna during the Raja Suya Yagam, is but one such example. We don't discourage questions as we are confident of our sayings and actions. Even Courts of Law consider the circumstances under which a crime is committed and consider all the factors before pronouncing their judgement. Because even if the crime is the same, circumstances differ and the degree of punishment depends, among other things, on the intention, whether intentional, premeditated Act or an impulsive act driven by raw emotions, whether the person was sober or otherwise, his age both physical and mental, etc. That's why punishments differ even for the same crime. We, Hindus, respect differing opinions even if we don't agree. Even Krishna told Arjuna, after a long sermon (B G), that the latter can do as he deems fit and need not necessarily obey Him. For those who have not studied the B G this sloka appears in the concluding Chapter of the B G. Such is the freedom given to us - to listen to Him but act as we deem fit - respect for the individual. There are no "Thou shall do, Thou shouldn't" etc. One acts and faces the consequences of that action - cause and effect. No compulsion to act in a particular way only. N Sekar On Sunday, August 18, 2024 at 01:38:25 PM GMT+4, Madras Sivaraman < [email protected]> wrote: For me dharma is adharma.Period. On Sun, 18 Aug, 2024, 15:03 N Sekar, <[email protected]> wrote: Dear all, One member wrote to my personal mail id asking me to justify, in effect, the seemingly Adharmic acts of Krishna in the Mahabharatha - in the context of my mail on the subject. He said, *by implication* that either I am a reactionary or a religious bigot (or both or more) to criticize other religious founders. My reply to him was (with additions now): Yes, Krishna resorted to seemingly adharmic acts to save Dharma and the Pandavas, on some occasions *but that was to Uphold Dharma*. Because Bhishma or Drona or others can't be defeated otherwise, given the boons they had and the adharmic acts they all committed on various occasions. But then to understand these intricacies, one has to study the texts deeply and listen to those scholars who had / have spent their lifetime studying and researching, these Texts and the Bashyams written about and on them. Violation of Dharma by Krishna, is like a traffic police exceeding the speed limit ( not legal) to catch a speedster or a criminal. *Both exceed the speed limit but are not the same. One violated the Law blatantly and the other violated the Law to uphold the Law*. This crucial difference will only be understood by the likes of religious bigots or reactionaries like me - who have studied these sacred Texts that have been been translated and the explanations given by various scholars and our own evaluation of them. I am writing this here as many amongst us, including some in my close circle of contacts who are otherwise very well qualified in secular education fields - medicine, civil services, C As, engineers etc. have a tendency to ridicule our religion. In fact, the more educated they are, the more ridicule they heap on our religion (some are justified) and our sacred texts and our venerable Purushas and others. Problem is most of them are educated in English medium ( I studied in Tamizh medium up to S S L C with English as only one subject) and either don't know about our religion, nor have listened to the Upanyasams and their like, or have half baked, superficial knowledge of them, or are just influenced by their circle and consider it fashionable / elitist to ridicule our ancient Texts and to tom tom their so called secular credentials. *Apart from these and all else, our Religion gives us the Right to Question anything, just about anything, which is not there in many others*. The way these fellows question our texts (right, if the intention is to seek clarification), if they do so in some other religions it will be considered Blasphemous and would invite severe punishment. Thank God they are Hindus, so called Hindus at least. While most other religions don't tolerate questioning their beliefs or Texts or their religious leaders, Hindu religion gives us complete freedom. The entire Upanishads is Q and A where the disciple is encouraged to question his Guru, but with respect and with a view to get clarifications and guidance - not to question just for the heck of it nor to ridicule. Because we believe "Anything Forced is Never Forceful", and because we are confident we have the answers to those sincere seekers of Truth so they can get convinced and accept - and not just commanded to do so. And we are called Reactionaries and Religious Bigots. Ignorance is indeed Bliss. N Sekar On Sunday, August 18, 2024 at 10:57:21 AM GMT+4, 'N Sekar' via KeralaIyers < [email protected]> wrote: Dear Sri Sivaraman, Apologies for my views here, in advance. I am not entering into the age controversy as several Hindu, Sanscrit Scolars differ from the " accredited histoians". These A H are the ones to dispute the existence of the Ram Temple beneath the Babri mosque even though the Archeological Dept, under Lal's supervision, excavated actual evidence tgree and at other places like Kashi, Mathura etc. But these paid A H distort history to suit a particular narrative and we blissfully believe them. Our Education system, designed by the Sickukar crowd in which several Sickular Hindus willingly participated has suppressed history and promoted a particular narrative, to support the then political leadership. I normally stay away from some issues, lest it causes unnecessary and avoidable bitterness. But I must say I am aghast, to say the least, at your saying, of all people, that Mohammed and to a large extent Jesus are the same as Adi Sankara and Swami Vivekananda - as rebirths of the same person. Do you know Mohammed's life history and what his teachings are? Nupur Sharma was nearly killed for just quoting his real life history and also for quoting what is stated in their Holy Book. Do you know the Quaran says all non Muslims are "kafirs" and other things including jihad? Did Adi Sankara or Swami Vivekananda said anything close to peven resembling that? Oh my God, I concede everyone's right to say whatever one feels BUT I have never heard this kind of bizzare interpretation and hence this rejoinder, NO PERSONAL OFFENCE INTENDED, writing more out of how we Hindus bend over backward and go out of our way to justify their heroes and books. Granted that there are also some good teachings in other religions such as respect for parents, helping the poor dhanam etc but to equate them both those who preached that all gods are the same as opposed to only my God is God and others are kafirs or Heathens is just too much to stomach. It is like Chalk and Cheese. Also the so called accredited historians completely whitewashed Hindu heroes and kings and emperors but eulogized Invaders and " Sickulars" and even the educated ones amongst us fall prey so easily and blindly. Give these fellows a little more space and they will say Moghul invasion never took place it was just our people begged them to rule us, to teach us what civilization is. Sickular blood in Hindus is all pervasive. I could have easily kept quiet like almost all the rest here but want to stand up and be counted when blatantly wrong views and opinions - in my opinion, are put forth. Sorry if I had hurted anyone's feelings but it was not my intention. There are several history lessons and even the dates of Ramayana and Mahabharatha, among ohgers - for those who care. Even Dushyant Sridhar has on his latest book Ramayana, has dwelt on this topic. But for that people must be interested to know the truth. Regards N Sekar Yahoo Mail: Search, Organize, Conquer <https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=NativePlacement&c=Global_Acquisition_YMktg_315_EmailSignatureGrowth_YahooMail:Search,Organize,Conquer&af_sub1=Acquisition&af_sub2=Global_YMktg&af_sub3=&af_sub4=100000945&af_sub5=OrganizeConquer__Static_> On Sun, Aug 18, 2024 at 7:01 AM, Rajaram Krishnamurthy <[email protected]> wrote: Sivaraman Ji All accredited historians B B Lal, Romila tapar, Ramachandra Guha, have all followed the British Pattern of the connived history written by the British mixing Gupta with Morya kingdom, and Alexander invasion only. They were /are conditioned as they had international recognition. I don't know whether you read the earlier part of True History where It was described so well how the British stole 1200 years of solid history. Where as the science can fabricate connecting 2 distant fossils to narrate the creation as truth; where from an island so small , visiting in a ship tour , one man can write up an evolution viz Darwin as truth; why west do not accept the astronomy dates of calendars formulated in Indian literatures? The cause they said was there is no software to go beyond 12000 years and so to calculate manually it is impossible to ascertain those planets positions and hence unreliable data. But carbon dating cannot go beyond 50000 years but how a fossil where carbon dating cannot be done beyond 50000 years can be classified as eras of metals and african migration took place beyond those 50000 years?; one is estimated wrt the mishap guessed; and the rest are compared to that particular event and estimated again. Historians are recognised only when they follow that pattern with evidence they have classified. If Katapayadi system is mathematics then adi shankara birth is proved by Kerala maths. But if someone were to carbon date that system palm leaf as only 500 year old, because they got it only as evidence , then the lack of a partial system is despicable. The west refuses sikkim monastery records as unfounded or insertions where buddha birth is stated as only 1000 BCE . If the star of bethlehem is reliable why not Indian star positions? That is why now more theories are being floated, by western world that there is no Christ at all. If the chinese travellers to India (books are available in many libraries in English) could figure out DHARMA KEERTHI and NAGARJUNA Buddist monks of Nalanda university, then why no one even mentioned ADI SHANKARA WHO WAS DEFEATED BY DHARMA KEERTHI? Because, when Chinese travellers were here, Adi Sankara was not there. On the contrary books written by Dharma keerthi in the sikkim monastery speaks of 6 sankara's drowned in Ganga, and the Indian historians took one of them as adi sankara; if so adi sankara should have been drowned. There cannot be any direct evidence for the AD period fixed and accepted by the cong govt of India only due to some of your seniors in the ministry who went along with Sringeri then which is untruth. Much water has flown; connecting links are unavailable; so what the scientists said or accredited historian said may not be the truth. Yet you and I were to speak on a public forum, and had to talk in line with the available doc only. I had gone very deep about the adi shankara period since 1982 onwards. # mutts records are available. But if someone will only think with an intent to deny as it is opening the pandora box, well time alone shall eject them out K Rajaram 17824 18824 On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 at 20:25, Madras Sivaraman <[email protected]> wrote: Mr.Rajaram no accredited historian has stated that the great Adisankara was before Christ era.There must be some proof of this not a mere chronology.I have the greatest admiration for this saint for his intuition and philosophy.But his antiquity is now only in the 7th century AD.Sometimes I wonder whether the Buddha, Jesus Christ, prophet mohamed, Adi Sankara and Swami Vivekananda are all rebirths of the same person. On Sun, 18 Aug, 2024, 06:24 Rajaram Krishnamurthy, <[email protected]> wrote: Dear word doc attached where lien of kingdom and Lien of correct period of Adi Shankara may be seen KR IRS 17824 18824 -- On Facebook, please join https://www.facebook.com/groups/keralaiyerstrust We are now on Telegram Mobile App also, please join Pattars/Kerala Iyers Discussions: https://t.me/PattarsGroup Kerala Iyers Trust Decisions only posts : https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrust Kerala Iyers Trust Group for Discussions: https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrustGroup --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "KeralaIyers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. 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