On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 16:33:02 +0200, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le Tue, 23 Apr 2013 10:24:18 -0400,
> "R. David Murray" a écrit :
> > >
> > > I'm having a problem with the proposed implementation. I haven't
> > > found any mention of it,
s in Java and C++, and I would say it's the same in Pascal and
> probably most other languages.
Well, I guess I can wrap my head around it :) An Enum is an odd duck
anyway, which I suppose is one of the things that makes it worth adding.
--David
_
On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 08:44:21 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 8:31 AM, R. David Murray
> wrote:
> > On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 08:11:06 -0700, Guido van Rossum
> > wrote:
> >> I gotta say, I'm with Antoine here. It's pretty natural (also
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 01:49:39 +0900, "Stephen J. Turnbull"
wrote:
> R. David Murray writes:
> > On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 22:29:33 +0900, "Stephen J. Turnbull"
> wrote:
> > > R. David Murray writes:
> > >
> > > > You transform *into*
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 11:37:16 +1200, Greg Ewing
wrote:
> R. David Murray wrote:
> > The first False looks correct to me, I would not expect an enum value to
> > be an instance of the class that holds it as an attribute. The second
> > certainly looks odd, but what does it
up-side is that after this initial clone,
> subsequent pulls are pretty quick and all other operations are local and
> super fast (log, blame, etc.)
To further clarify what Eli said, "the whole repo" gets put into that
.hg directory *first*, and only at the end is a work
argument. I'm working on a system that depends on
exactly this standard behavior of (most?) built in types in Python: if
you pass an instance or something that can be converted to an instance
to the type constructor, you get back an instance. If Enums break that
paradigm(*), someone would
dule
(ie: a MIME image object returned by the email parser is a candidate to
provide the PEP 368 interface).
Does anyone know if there is any associated code?
--David
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#x27;t been bothered enough yet
to do it. (After all, weren't you the one who told me the lack of tab
key indentation at the interactive prompt after you enabled completion
by default wasn't an issue because one could just use space to indent? :)
--David
big projects I worked in my IBM mainframe days (one of them using SGML,
if anyone remembers when there were actual source-to-printed-document
systems for SGML). I guess I pretty much forgot about it when I moved
to unix, but I suppose it is one of the reasons I do like doctest.
A quick google tells
"almost never".
I think a case needs to be made for any place that seems like it would
actually improve things, because usually I don't think it will, in the
stdlib.
--David
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On Mon, 20 May 2013 15:57:35 +0200, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> On Mon, 20 May 2013 09:37:32 -0400
> "R. David Murray" wrote:
> > On Mon, 20 May 2013 12:45:57 +0200, Antoine Pitrou
> > wrote:
> > > On Sat, 18 May 2013 23:41:59 -0700
> > > Raymon
t; at least change the double trace back message as it implies two
> failures, instead of just one.
I don't understand what you want to do here.
--David
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rienced programmer, by the chained exceptions
when I first started dealing with them, but at this point I suppose it
has become second nature :).
I agree with the subsequent discussion that this error is a good case
for 'from None', given that any such convers
ejection of
improvements here; however, I suspect that tulip has an impact on this.
Regardless of that, any changes need to be discussed in a wider context
than just the smtpd module, no matter where changes are actually made.
--David
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mpletely...I'm just a user :) But I must say that the system works
well from my point of view.
--David
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On Tue, 28 May 2013 11:35:00 -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On May 24, 2013, at 04:23 PM, R. David Murray wrote:
>
> >Gentoo has a (fairly complex) driver script that is symlinked to all
> >of these bin scripts. The system then has the concept of the
> >"current
On Tue, 28 May 2013 12:17:49 -0400, Tres Seaver wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 05/28/2013 11:41 AM, R. David Murray wrote:
> > I have the same complaint about setuptools entry-point scripts, where
> > I still haven't figured out
sues, such as
when someone has manually changed the entrypoints.txt file.
Note that the comment still requires you to know python import
semantics...but if you don't know that much you wouldn't get far looking
at the source code anyway. The dir/filename lets you 'find&#
On Thu, 30 May 2013 00:59:02 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 12:47 AM, Brett Cannon wrote:
> > I am willing to compromise to module_to_initialize, module_to_init, or
> > module_to_load. Pick one. =)
>
> I see this as *really* similar to a database transaction, and those
> st
ged_initializiation'? That seems closer to the 'closing'
model, to me. It isn't as clear about what it is returning, though,
since you are passing it a name and getting back a module, whereas in
the closing case you get back the same object you send in.
Perhaps 'managed_modu
pristine_module", etc.
I don't really have a horse in this race (that is, whatever is chosen, my
vote will be 0 on it unless someone comes up with something brilliant :),
but I'll just point out that those names do not give any clue as to why
the thing is a context manager instead o
o the with block. There probably
isn't a good answer.
I suppose that one approach would be to have a module_initializer context
manager return self and then separately call a method on it it to actually
load the module inside the with body. But adding more typing to solve
a naming issue seem
disaster.
An application can choose to explicitly ignore the system mimetypes
file, by the way.
That said, I don't feel strongly either way about the cert store case.
--David
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y are either byte-by-byte equivalent (not sure
> actually if Python actually guarantees this), or every element would
> still compare equal and that is what matters.
Enums are supposed to be singletons, though, so the 'is' test
is exactly the point of this test.
--David
_
though in many cases the code is also
conformant with the newer RFCs because the relevant details have
not changed.
--David
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hinx literalinclude directive to include the contents of the file
in the docs just before you show the 'is' example. You could also explain
(briefly) *why* it is necessary to use an imported class for this example,
which IMO is useful information.
--David
ontains a bunch of good information
relevant to this discussion. It looks like the argument there was
that there is no standard for the signs, therefore we should not
support them.
As Guido said, the issue is non-trivial.
--David
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This discussion is better suited for python-ideas than it
is for python-dev.
On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 16:50:53 +0200, Markus Unterwaditzer
wrote:
> But why?
>
> -- Markus (from phone)
>
> Pynix Wang wrote:
> >1.lambda expression
> >
> >c#
> >a.(x, y) => x == y
> >b.() => SomeMethod()
> >
> >ruby:
to decide if bytes/bytearray
is a sequence of integers or a scaler...
> - enable the `len()` function for scalar variables such as integers or
> floats. I would tend to think that 1 is a natural answer to what the length
> of a number is.
That would screw up the ABC type hierarchy...the existence of len
indicates that an iterable is indexable.
--David
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I propose to implement approach #2
> on both 3.3 and 3.4.
I don't think renaming pydoc to pydocs is appropriate on posix. Too many
people likely have 'pydoc' in their fingers and brains as the command name.
The .bat file suggestion seems better, IMO.
--David
___
specific option.
> >
> >
> > Should probably be "Set the implementation-specific option."
>
> Is there anyone respecting this notation? (I know pypy does not, it
> uses --jit and stuff)
CPython does. We introduced it for ourselves, it
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 22:14:46 +0200, Maciej Fijalkowski wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 6:14 PM, R. David Murray
> wrote:
> > On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 17:40:13 +0200, Maciej Fijalkowski
> > wrote:
> >> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
> >>
Please file this as a bug report on bugs.python.org so that it doesn't
get lost.
See also http://bugs.python.org/issue13328 (which looks like a different bug
but could also be causing you problems).
--David
On Wed, 26 Jun 2013 00:11:04 +0400, Vitaly Murashev
wrote:
> Dear Python de
s ask someone reporting an issue to do a make distclean
and recompile, and many of these reporters will be working from a tarball
rather than a checkout. Sure, they could re-unpack the tarball (if they
haven't deleted it already), but make distclean is easier.
--David
Users of the language are advised to use that form when a do-while
> +loop would have been appropriate.
Why delete the information about what was found wanting?
--David
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I don't know if this is the commit at fault or not, but we are seeing
segfaults in test_xml_etree on the buildbots now.
--David
On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 20:43:22 +0200, christian.heimes
wrote:
> http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/bd0834b59828
> changeset: 84375:bd0834b59828
> user:
nly remove files generated by
> > configure and a build. It should not remove random files.
> >
> > *~, .orig, .rej, .back should be kept. They are not generated by
> > configure nor make.
>
> I think you want "make clean" then.
commands? One
> GNU-style "distclean" which only removes configure and Makefile, and
> another "distclean" which is the GNU "distclean" + the extra find
> removing temporary files.
The command that does not remove the extra files is *not* a 'distclean'
command. 'buildclean' or 'configclean', but not 'distclean'.
distclean still needs to be fixed, so please open a new issue for
adding buildclean or whatever you want to call it, as Eric requested
in the existing issue.
--David
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of different tests.
I don't really have time to look at it firther right now either, I've
got a client with an issue that needs solved asap...
--David
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re
> done at module loading, due to the lack of initialization system at
> upper levels.
There may well be a bug that could be/should be fixed here, but...it
seems to me that other than the sys.path modifications, doing any of that
at module imp
anslation is being done in both modes. Logically that makes
no sense, so the above construction will likely lead to, at a minimum,
an interruption in the flow for the reader, and at worse even more
confusion than not mentioning it at all.
--David
_
aracters
> > ``'\n'`` in the input will be converted to the default line separator
> > :data:`os.linesep`. For *stdout* and *stderr*, all line endings in the
> > output will be converted to ``'\n'``. F
:
>
> http://docs.python.org/3/library/curses.html#curses.window.addch
>
> Of the two, I believe the square brackets syntax is far more common.
Sorry to make your life more complicated, but unless I'm misunderstanding
something, issue 18220 (http://bugs.python.org/issue18220)
pecific ifdefs *as well*), and I doubt the core
team is going to go there.
The older versions of Python won't be going away. Those can still be
used on XP. Of course, they won't get bug fixes...just like XP itself.
--David
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hink you'd be wrong about that, though. simplegeneric should really be
treated as private. I'm speaking here not about the general principle of
the thing, but about my understanding of simplegeneric's specific history.
--David
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On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:46:34 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 7/16/2013 9:39 AM, R. David Murray wrote:
> > On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 23:19:21 +1000, Steven D'Aprano
> > wrote:
>
> >> For example, pkgutil includes classes with single-underscore methods,
> >&g
e buildbot cannot "improperly" set the GUI resource.
Setting a resource on the regrtest command line says "please try to run
these tests". If they can't be run, they should then be skipped for
whatever reason they can't run.
--David
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do it, I couldn't figure out how to get from
the _openid_discovery table (which has 22 entries that have myopenid as
the endpoint server) to the corresponding user record.
Either Martin needs to clue me in, or I'll have to find time to read
his openid code :)
--David
xhaustion). If we ever decide to get serious about
> code coverage (both C and Python code) we may need to have a discussion as
> a group about our feelings related to pragmas dictating when code should be
> left out of coverage reports.
I suspect Victor will
On Sun, 28 Jul 2013 01:09:43 +0200, terry.reedy
wrote:
> http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/dd9941f5fcda
> changeset: 84870:dd9941f5fcda
> branch: 2.7
> parent: 84865:c0788ee86a65
> user:Terry Jan Reedy
> date:Sun Jul 21 20:13:24 2013 -0400
> summary:
> Issue #18441:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 20:52:27 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 7/30/2013 1:31 PM, R. David Murray wrote:
> > On Sun, 28 Jul 2013 01:09:43 +0200, terry.reedy
> > wrote:
> > I believe that this logic is incorrect.
>
> It works for the intended purpose.
>
> > If
ay you have now done. So I think it is appropriate to do so. But, then,
I would, considering I'm doing the same thing to the email module for
much the same reason :).
--David
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readability of longer lines is far less significant to me than
the loss of readability when I want narrower windows (or run into
them in code review tools, as mentioned).
But of course this is just my opinion :) :)
--David
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entioned in the question, but there
are certainly places where lambdas are useful. The most obvious is as
arguments to functions that expect functions as arguments.
But yes, even in those cases if a lambda isn't fairly trivial, it
probably shouldn't be a lambda.
--David
actual code lines, which can look odd when the text is rendered. So
there it's a judgement call...but I still generally try to wrap the
source to 79, sometimes refactoring the example to make that more
elegant. Which, as you point out, often makes it bette
sed on what will become 3.4. Would backporting
> it to 2.7 be feasible? What's involved in doing so?
That depends on how likely Michale thinks it is that it might break
things.
> I took a crack at the docs.
Thanks. Please post your patch to the issue, it will get lost here.
ghts?
> >
> > Eli
>
> FWIW the problem is also discussed here:
> http://bugs.python.org/issue1674555, w.r.t. test_site
Can't you just launch a subprocess from the test itself using script_helpers?
--David
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On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 19:04:21 -0700, Eli Bendersky wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 6:57 PM, R. David Murray wrote:
> > On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 16:47:37 -0700, Eli Bendersky wrote:
> >> On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 4:36 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote:
> >> > Hi All,
> >>
__init__, it just has to replicate the superclass
logic if it exists, which is the way Python normally works.
I use this "call a hook method from __init__" pattern in the email
package's new header parsing code, by the way, for whatever that is
worth :)
--David
_
tally?
If we are going to do them incrementally we should make that decision
soonish, so that we don't end up having a whole bunch happen at once
and defeat the (theoretical) purpose of doing them incrementally.
(I say theoretical because what is the purpose? To spread out the
breakag
just
> median(), median_low(), etc.
I too prefer the median_low naming rather than median.low. I'm not
sure I can articulate why, but certainly the fact that that latter
isn't used anywhere else in the stdlib that I can think of is
probably a lot of it :)
Perhaps the underlying thoug
On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:34:12 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 8/15/2013 8:29 AM, R. David Murray wrote:
> > A number of us (I don't know how many) have clearly been thinking about
> > "Python 4" as the time when we remove cruft. This will not cause any
> > back
> 'median'
> >>>> median.low()
> > 'median.low'
>
>
> There's the patch decorator in unittest.mock which provides:
>
> patch(...)
> patch.object(...)
> patch.dict(...)
>
> The implementation is exactly as you suggest. (e.g. patch.object =
> _patch_object)
Truthfully there are a number of things about the mock API that make me
uncomfortable, including that one. But despite that I'm glad we
didn't try to re-engineer it. Take that as you will :)
--David
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member if I omitted to merge deliberately, or if that was
> > an oversight.
>
> Well, yours is just the tip of the 3.2 branch. 3.2 was already active
> when you made this commit, left over from the 3.2.5 release fiddling
> (when, presumably, a merge to default was also skipped
27;s commit, IIUC.)
I agree that it would cause less developer mind-overhead if the branch
were merged.
Georg has been scarce lately...if the branch is locked, there are people
besides him who can unlock it (Antoine, for one).
--David
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On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 16:59:36 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 8/21/2013 4:52 PM, R. David Murray wrote:
> > On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 14:34:33 -0500, Tim Peters wrote:
> >> [Brett]
> >>> ...
> >>> After reading that sentence I realize there is a key "n
On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 16:45:29 +0300, Michael Foord
wrote:
>
> On 22 Aug 2013, at 14:00, Petri Lehtinen wrote:
>
> > Terry Reedy wrote:
> >> On 8/15/2013 8:29 AM, R. David Murray wrote:
> >>
> >>> A number of us (I don't know how many) have c
On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 20:00:14 +0200, Ezio Melotti wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 4:43 PM, R. David Murray
> wrote:
> > On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 16:45:29 +0300, Michael Foord
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On 22 Aug 2013, at 14:00, Petri Lehtinen wrote:
> >> &g
s functional, it fills an use case, and it doesn't seem
> to have any concrete issues.
>
> Get over it, Stefan, and stop trolling us.
Stefan is not trolling. He's raising objections that you disagree with.
It costs nothing to keep the discussion civil.
--David
_
d)
Emerge uses Python, and 2.7 is the default system python on Gentoo,
so unless he changed his default, that error almost certainly came from
the existing Python he was having trouble with.
Just for fun I re-emerged 2.7.3-r3 on my system, and that worked fine.
--David
_
#x27;])
Foö Bar <"f...@example.com"> mè
>>> print(fullmsg['subject'])
j'ai un problème de python.
>>> print(fullmsg['to'].addresses[0].display_name)
Foö Bar
>>> print(fullmsg.get_body(('plain',
On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 20:37:30 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On 31/08/13 15:21, R. David Murray wrote:
> > If you've read my blog (eg: on planet python), you will be aware that
> > I dedicated August to full time email package development.
> [...]
>
>
> The
On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 18:57:56 +0900, "Stephen J. Turnbull"
wrote:
> R. David Murray writes:
>
> > But I would certainly appreciate review from anyone so moved, since I
> > haven't gotten any yet.
>
> I'll try to make time for a serious (but obviousl
On Sun, 01 Sep 2013 00:18:59 +0900, "Stephen J. Turnbull"
wrote:
> R. David Murray writes:
>
> > Full validation is something that is currently a "future
> > objective".
>
> I didn't mean it to be anything else. :-)
>
> > The
On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 18:57:56 +0900, "Stephen J. Turnbull"
wrote:
> R. David Murray writes:
>
> > But I would certainly appreciate review from anyone so moved, since I
> > haven't gotten any yet.
>
> I'll try to make time for a serious (but obvious
rience
with MUAs is actually quite limited :)
Unless there is some standard for referring to related parts in a
text/plain part? I'm not aware of any, but you have much more experience
with this stuff than I do. (Even text/enriched (RFC 1896) doesn't seem
to have one, though of course
emails sent to their application.
--David
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On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 10:56:36 +0900, "Stephen J. Turnbull"
wrote:
> R. David Murray writes:
> > I can understand the structure Glen found in Applemail:
> > a series of text/plain parts interspersed with image/jpg, with all parts
> > after the first being marked
On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 10:01:42 -0400, "R. David Murray"
wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 10:56:36 +0900, "Stephen J. Turnbull"
> wrote:
> > R. David Murray writes:
> > > I can understand the structure Glen found in Applemail:
> > > a series of text
the file could be moved to a temporary name in the
> > root directory (or some other permanent directory on the same drive) and
> > then deleted. That would allow the directory to be closed even if a
> > FILE_SHARE_DELETE handle is still open for the file.
>
released before the first RC,
I'm guessing we will probably upgrade to it.
--David
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e::UCD is far more complete).
> >
> > Are there any plans to update this module to the latest Unicode version
> > (6.2, with 6.3 being released shortly)
>
> It's been updated to 6.2 almost a year ago, so Python 3.3 should have that.
3.3 shipped with 6.1.
--Dav
object)`.
Which matches A.__mro__. EOD, I think.
--David
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same token it probably
doesn't have much positive impact if it does get backported, so is it
worth the (small) chance of breaking someone's code?
--David
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On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 08:59:02 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 09/06/2013 08:44 AM, R. David Murray wrote:
> > On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 08:14:09 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:
> >> On 09/06/2013 07:47 AM, Armin Rigo wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Are you suggesting that
On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 10:01:32 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 09/06/2013 09:37 AM, R. David Murray wrote:
> > On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 08:59:02 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:
> >>
> >> For the short term I can restrict the change to
> >> inspect.classify_class_attrs().
t; our resources," then we must provide an option to use something akin
> > to Persona.
IMO, single signon is overrated. Especially if one prefers not to make
it easy for various accounts to be automatically associated with one
another by various entities who shall remain nameless but have been in
the news a lot lately :)
--David
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On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 15:17:12 -0400, Donald Stufft wrote:
> On Sep 6, 2013, at 3:11 PM, "R. David Murray" wrote:
>
> > IMO, single signon is overrated. Especially if one prefers not to make
> > it easy for various accounts to be automatically associated with one
>
heritable in subprocesses" with "subprocesses"
> taken in the general sense (i.e. not only created with the subprocess
> module).
Not wrong, but definitely confusing. It is worth clarifying *somehow*
that this does not apply only to the subprocess module, which
On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 17:11:21 +0200, Jesus Cea wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 06/09/13 21:34, R. David Murray wrote:
> > Note that I said that single signon *itself* was overrated. If you
> > use the same token to authenticate to mult
here
> multiple types of capitalisation would be useful within the same dictionary.
I can:
MIME-Version
Message-ID
Content-Type
For network protocols you really do want to *preserve* the case.
--David
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t; in my
> mind. A quick scan of your links suggests most people think something
> like "cidict" or "CaseInsensitiveDict" would be more descriptive.)
Except it is wider than that: the transform function can be anything,
not just case folding.
I suggeste
he name in the PEP is more or less derived from
> _PyType_Lookup, with "local" meaning "only in this class, don't
> recurse in the rest of the MRO".
Why is __getclassattribute__ worse than __locallookup__?
--David
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than one possible representation of that key. It is the original key
that is critical when re-serializing the data or otherwise making use
of the keys for anything other than lookup. So this is about making
the data structure succinctly model the problem domain, which is what
OO is supposed to be go
ive proposals and questions
> ===
You don't mention the alternate constructor discussion, or the
rationale for following the defaultdict pattern (ie: following the
established pattern :)
--David
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by having a 'cache_stat'
attribute of the Path that is 'False' by default but can be set 'True'.
It could also (or only?) be set via an optional constructor argument.
--David
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he issue of corporate users restricted from
installing 3rd party packages...which will not be affected at all by
this PEP.
--David
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On Tue, 17 Sep 2013 12:38:31 -0400, Donald Stufft wrote:
> On Sep 17, 2013, at 12:25 PM, "R. David Murray" wrote:
> > I don't think this PEP changes the inclusion calculus, because I don't
> > think we've given any real weight to that in stdlib inclu
and therefore possibly
incorrect :) understanding most of it is currently in the form of physical
paper in a filing cabinet.
I don't know if there is a project to digitize the archives or not,
but it would seem like a sensible thing to do, for backup reasons if
nothin
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