There are no guarantees in life. On the other hand: Don't worry, be happy.
On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 7:39 PM, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
> Guido van Rossum writes:
>> On Monday, April 15, 2013, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
>>> Brian Curtin > writes:
>>> > On Fri, A
o it is
possible to reason about corner cases.
(*) Proof: even I didn't think of it until just now. :-)
On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 6:17 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 7:41 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Eli Bendersky wrote:
>>>
On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 9:41 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 2:11 AM, Larry Hastings wrote:
>> On 04/26/2013 02:41 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>> I am still optimistic that we can come up with a rule that
>> works well enough in practice (and
comparing amino acid
> sequences and nucleotide sequences.
>
> Best,
> Zheng Ruan
>
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red a general scope for miscellanea. (TBH, I think that using
classes to scope variables is mostly misguided anyway -- the standard
mechanism for scoping is the module.)
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On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> It seems to me that the *most* common case will be a simple name mapping, in
> which case one can do:
>
> Planet = Enum._make('Planet', 'MERCURY VENUS EARTH')
>
> and be done with it.
That looks horrib
SATURN
>JUPITER
>URANUS
>PLUTO
>''',
> ):
> '''Planets of the Solar System'''
>
> Not sure I like that. Ah well.
The problem with this and si
umpteen times.
>
If you want something like this, doyou really have to inherit from Enum?
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ed/excluded?
IMO Everything should be enumerated except
(a) things with a __get__() method (i.e. descriptors)
(b) __dunder__ names
Also, I believe there's still an issue on the order in which items are
returned by iter(Seasons), but I don't know which way this is heading.
--
--Guido van R
doesn't mean enums
can't emulate aspects of it.)
Together with my pronouncements earlier in this thread I am hoping
that Eli and Barry will update the PEP and implementation (let's give
them a week) and everyone else will quiet down. I realize we're
deviating furth
perty is not justban implementation
issue, it is part of the spec. Same for bool. (But == works too.)
--Guido
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But as soon as:
>>>
>>>type(Color.red) is Color # True
>>>type(MoreColor.red) is MoreColor # True
>>
>>
>> I don't believe this is correct. As I understand it, the proposal is the
>> weaker guarantee:
>>
>>isinstance(Color.r
teger)? Does that become straightforward by nature of enum
> values being the type of their enumerations?
Correct, we'll still need an IntEnum subclass of Enum. I have no idea
how this works out in the implementation, sorry.
--
--Guido van
is better; the
> former is error prone and doesn't seem to be useful too often.
I think it should be A, and the choice should be the first one in
definition order.
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On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 9:12 AM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 04/29/2013 08:39 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>> Indeed, the "type(Color.red) is Color" claim was meant for the
>> situation where red is defined directly in Color, and I used type()
>> instead of isi
ossible to define
the aliases inside the enum class definition. The canonical one is the
first one in definition order.
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You are too verbose. I have already said what I needed to say.
On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 11:24 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On 30/04/13 03:01, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>> Oh dear, this is actually a mess. I don't want MoreColor.red and
>> Color.red to be distinct obje
is True), then you could
incorrectly conclude that it is safe to call a MoreColor method on
Color.red.
Please do read the StackOverflow links I gave:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4604978/subclassing-an-enum
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3427947/enumeration-inheritence-in-java/3428050#342805
have to special-case enums. (When we're
not using duck typing.)
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http://ma
be happy with whatever you end up with and use it as
> appropriate.
This is a trick question though, isn't it? Example:
class Color(Enum):
red = 1
white = 2
blue = 3
class State(Enum):
idle = 0
busy = 1
We would have State.busy == 1 and Color.red == 1, so now State
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Sorry, that was my confusion. The virus warnings were about the bz2
test data. XML bombs have not yet been addressed in any revision
AFAIK.
On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 2:06 PM, Nadeem Vawda wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Benjamin Peterson
> wrote:
>>
>> 2013/4/3
efits from caching there's a complementary use
case that caching breaks. Since both use cases are important we must
offer both APIs, in a way that makes it clear to even the casual
reader of the code what's going on.
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There doesn't even seem
> to be an easy way to override the default behavior if you really wanted to do
> it.
>
> -Barry
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> Unsu
ag_colors = list(Color) + list(ExtraColor)
But this would be less or more acceptable depending on whether it is a
common or esoteric use case.
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...
>
> --> class Planet(StrEnum):
> ... mars = 'red'
> ... earth = 'blue'
> ...
>
> --> Season.summer.descripbe()
> Hi! I'm a brown widget!
>
> --> Planet.earth.describe()
> Hi! I'm a blue widget!
If the base
>
> As opposed to having an IntEnum explicitly, this just saves 2 characters
> (comma+space), but is more explicit (zen!) and helps us avoid the
> special-casing the subclass restriction implementation.
Sounds good to me.
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--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
___
ete subclasses of
>> IntEnum (or WhateverEnum).
>
>
> You mean this?
>
> class BehaviorMixin:
> # bla bla
>
> class MyBehavingIntEnum(int, BehaviorMixin, Enum):
> foo = 1
> bar = 2
It's a common pattern to do this with a base class rather than a
mixin, tho
> a Good Thing.
What would int(x) return if x is an enum whose value is not a plain int?
Why can't you use x.value for this use case?
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Yes.
On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 05/01/2013 02:07 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> class BehaviorMixin:
>>># bla bla
>>>
>>&
eck,
e.g. "if x in Color:". (Note that from this you cannot derive that
Color[x] should work.)
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his, don't conclude that it's not important for
namedtuple() or Enum() to return a picklable class. It is important.
It is just not important to try to make it work when they are called
through some other wrapper -- there's just not much use for such a
pattern.)
--
--Guido
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> I would suggest moving the field names into the class header for a class
> based convenience API:
>
> class Animal(Enum, members='cat dog'): pass
Would you propose the same for namedtuple?
--
--Guido van Ros
, I haven't seen code in the style that
Greg proposes in decades, and I don't think it is an important enough
use case to support more directly than through getattr() +
isinstance().
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the first argument could accept, but
> not require dotted names in the first argument. If provided, rsplit the
> string and use the prefix as __module__. If not given, fallback to the
> _getframe() hack for those implementations where it's available.
>
> The same could pr
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 4:08 PM, Greg Ewing wrote:
> Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>> I haven't seen code in the style that
>> Greg proposes in decades,
> What style are you talking about here?
Code that wants to validate a string the user typed as input. Web
f
; Options 1 and 2 both sound reasonable to me, although I have a
> preference for 2 due to the ability to produce a more appropriate
> error message when the lookup fails.
>
> Cheers,
> Nick.
>
> --
> Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia
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resses concrete functional issues.
> (but apparently you would very much like to sweep those issues under
> the carpet in the name of "bikeshedding")
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
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;
>> Kind regards and happy weekend.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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ob, I like the PEP a lot. But Python's enums are very unlike
> those of other languages, and I suspect that's going to be more of an issue
> than you'd hope...
We're pretty confident that we're doing about the best job possible
given the constraints (one of whi
ion; (b) specify the full dotted class name in the
call. (We should modify namedtuple() to support this too BTW.)
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On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Tim Delaney wrote:
> So long as I can get one of the requirements documented to implement an
> auto-number syntax I'll be happy enough with stdlib enums I think.
Specifically what do you want the PEP to promise?
--
--Guido van Rossum (python
On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Tim Delaney wrote:
> On 6 May 2013 08:00, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Tim Delaney
>> wrote:
>> > So long as I can get one of the requirements documented to implement an
>> > auto-number
On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Tim Delaney
> wrote:
>>
>> On 6 May 2013 08:00, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Tim Delaney
>>> wrote:
>>&g
On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 05/05/2013 03:16 PM, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
>>
>> Guido van Rossum writes:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Having to enter the values is annoying. Sorry, I read the rationale
>>>> and
>>>> all
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review now.
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drawn).
>
>
>
>
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On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 05/13/2013 11:32 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>>
>> But now you enter a different phase of your project, or one of your
>> collaborators does, or perhaps you've released your code on PyPI and one of
>&
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 2:13 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 05/14/2013 01:58 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
>>> I can get pickle failure on members created using the functional syntax
>>> with no module set
ke marshal
doesn't always check for EOF immediately (sometimes it calls getc()
without checking the result, and sometimes it doesn't check the error
state after calling r_string()), so I think all the errors are
actually explainable from this scenario.
--
--
I still suspect this might explain most of what Barry saw, if not all.
—
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On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
> On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> This reminds me of the following bug, which can happen when two
>> pro
On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Greg Ewing wrote:
> Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>> This reminds me of the following bug, which can happen when two
>> processes are both writing the .pyc file and a third is reading it.
>> ... I think all the errors are
>>
many special cases to consider; e.g. using **kwds in
the call where kwds is an unordered dict, or calls from C, or calls to
C.
But maybe someone considers this a challenge and comes up with a
patch? The benefits to *some* use cases would be obvious.
Fake values would probably cause hard to debug problems. It's a long standing
Python tradition not to offer low level APIs that the platform doesn't have.
—
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On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 5:20 AM, Antoine Pitrou
wrote:
> On Sun, 19 May 2013 10:08:39 +0200
> Charles-François Natali w
Hm. Wouldn'tvevery call site be slowed down by checking for that flag?
—
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On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 7:42 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 11:01 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>> The main use case seems to be the OrderedDict constructor itself.
>> Otherwise, I can't th
Anyway, if you're doing arithmetic on enums you're doing it wrong.
—
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On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 4:55 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 4:41 PM, Raymond Hettinger
> wrote:
>> nicer repr" is worth "Sorry, I broke your tests, made your published
>> examples
>> out o
7;t see this as a proposal to change the language. Like Greg,
I'm not advocating, just pondering. (With the exception that if I was
allowed to use the time machine to go back a couple of weeks, I'd
adjust PEP 435 to define str(x) as x.name, e.g. "red"
ion to avoid slowing down function calls that don't benefit.
--Guido van Rossum (sent from Android phone)
On May 20, 2013 8:25 AM, "fwierzbi...@gmail.com"
wrote:
> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 6:39 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> > Or in other words, if dicts are to be ordered, le
pros and cons. Post design ideas to python-ideas please, not here!
--Guido
On Tuesday, May 21, 2013, Łukasz Langa wrote:
> On 20 maj 2013, at 03:46, Guido van Rossum
> >
> wrote:
>
> On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Gregory P. Smith
> >
> wrote:
>
> Now yo
g list
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2 special
as well usually smells. So I'd say that Łukasz's single-dispatch
proposal covers a fairly important patch of new ground, while
dual-dispatch is both much harder and less useful. Ergo, Łukasz has
made the right trade-off.
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Łukasz, are there any open issues? Otherwise I'm ready to accept the PEP.
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Ok, happy bikeshedding. I'm outta here until that's settled. :-)
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Łukasz Langa wrote:
> On 23 maj 2013, at 16:49, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>> Łukasz, are there any open issues? Otherwise I'm ready to accept the PEP.
>
> There
h, and you've managed the
bikeshedding admirably. Thank you for your great contribution to
Python!
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Not a bug. The same is done for file input -- CRLF is changed to LF before
tokenizing.
On Jun 14, 2013 8:27 AM, "Walter Dörwald" wrote:
> Hello all!
>
> This surprised me:
>
>>>> eval("'''\r\n'''")
>'\n'
>
> Where did the \r go? ast.literal_eval() has the same problem:
>
>>>> ast.lite
The semantics of raw strings are clear. I don't see that they should be
called out especially in any context. (Except for regexps.) Usually exec()
is not used with a literal anyway (what would be the point).
--Guido van Rossum (sent from Android phone)
On Jun 15, 2013 1:03 PM, "Ron Ad
g may not have originated from a file, so the universal
newlines behavior of the io module is irrelevant here -- the parser
must implement its own equivalent processing, and it does.
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On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Greg Ewing wrote:
> Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>> No. Executing a file containing those exact characters produces a
>> string containing only '\n' and exec/eval is meant to behave the same
>> way. The string may not have ori
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> 2013/6/17 Greg Ewing :
>> Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>>
>>> No. Executing a file containing those exact characters produces a
>>> string containing only '\n' and exec/eval is meant to be
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> 2013/6/17 Guido van Rossum :
>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Benjamin Peterson
>> wrote:
>>> 2013/6/17 Greg Ewing :
>>>> Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
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AttributeError: '_socketobject' object has no attribute 'arecvfrom'
>
> So what am I doing wrong? How do I export this new socket method?
>
> any help/pointer will be greatly appreciated.
>
> cheers,
> ani
>
> --
> Ani
>
> __
s, I am skeptical that any tuning of
> this structure provides any meaningful performance improvement.
Actually the data buffer is an array of pointers too, so with the
original BLOCKLEN value of 62, sizeof(block) would be 64 times
sizeof(PyObject *). In the Py3 version of the source there's
makes intuitive sense now. I
think the general feeling is that folks overreacted (perhaps confused by
your silence) and that the reversal will be rolled back. Benjamin?
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g_AsLong(), and check value <= UINT_MAX?
Why can't you use the K format? It won't reject out-of-range values,
but it will convert them to in-range so there aren't any attacks
possible based on bypassing the range check. I'm probably
misunderstanding something -- I don&#x
portant that it fits on one line and is separated from the
rest of the docstring by a blank line. [...]
"""
I still like this rule, but it is violated frequently, in the stdlib
and elsewhere. I'd like to urge stdlib contributors and core devs to
heed it -- or explain why
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 1:21 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> I don't always find it easy to summarize a function in one line.
Neither do I. But I always manage to do it anyway. My reasoning is,
you can always leave out more detail and add it to the subsequent
paragraph.
--
--Guido va
Yes on one line, capitalized, period. No on single sentence.
--Guido van Rossum (sent from Android phone)
On Jun 27, 2013 8:17 AM, "Larry Hastings" wrote:
> On 06/26/2013 08:56 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
> PEP 257 says this on the formatting of multi-line docstrings:
&
It was never my intention to enforce that everything has a docstring.
Just that if it does, it looks good.
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 6/27/2013 11:57 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>> Yes on one line, capitalized, period. No on single sentence.
>
y mappings) but still the mnemonic tip "foo[bar] is a lookup"
should help in remembering the meaning.
I have no idea why it was the other way around in flufl.enum, but
admittedly neither of these rules are absolute, and it's possible that
fluf
t; be closed (and maybe a note added to the PEP that "we didn't do this
> after all")?
>
> --amk
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No time to read the PEP in detail but the motivation sound reasonable.
--Guido van Rossum (sent from Android phone)
On Jul 2, 2013 4:53 AM, "Ronald Oussoren" wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Below is a very preliminary draft PEP for adding a special method that can
> be used to h
Chris, what do you want to do with the knowledge you are seeking?
--Guido van Rossum (sent from Android phone)
On Jul 4, 2013 4:28 AM, "Chris Withers" wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> In Python 2, I can figure out whether I have a method or a function, and,
> more importantly, for an
>
> runner = Runner(T0, C1.meth, C2.meth1, C2.meth2)
>
> ...but if I do that, how can the runner know that what it gets for its
> second argument is a class method of C1?
> (which is this case means that it should do C1().meth() rather than
> C1.meth())
>
> cheers,
>
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
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Le jeudi 04 juillet 2013 à 12:17 -0700, Guido van Rossum a écrit :
> > Why not? Presumably those news items were all merged into the default
> > branch, and Misc/NEWS also has all the news for all 3.3.0 releases.
> > Why pick on 3.3.1 rc1?
>
> 3.3.1rc1 is the only post-3.3.
others around
them don't or if they need certain software.
--Guido van Rossum (sent from Android phone)
On Jul 12, 2013 4:34 AM, "Christian Heimes" wrote:
> Am 12.07.2013 03:49, schrieb Ben Hoyt:
> > I guess it has to be dropped at some stage, but with Windows XP it
u want (never mind whether it
matches the exact API currently proposed), and (b) doesn't slow down
classes that don't provide this hook.
Other than that, I think that it's a laudable attempt at generalizing,
and I hope you solve the implementation conundrum.
--
--Guido van Rossum
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote:
>
> On 15 Jul, 2013, at 18:49, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>>
>>> A major open issue: the __locallookup__ method could also be used for
>>> normal attribute resolution, but that probably causes issues
type always matches that of the target string. I think this is
bad -- apart from the lifetime concern, it means that if your target
happens to be a bytearray, the return value isn't even hashable!
Does anyone remember whether this was a conscious decision? Is it too
late to fix?
--
--Guido
Ok, created http://bugs.python.org/issue18468.
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Gregory P. Smith wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>> In a discussion about mypy I discovered that the Python 3 version of
>> the re module'
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 5:10 PM, MRAB wrote:
> On 16/07/2013 00:30, Gregory P. Smith wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Guido van Rossum > <mailto:gu...@python.org>> wrote:
>>
>> In a discussion about mypy I discovered that the Pyt
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 7:03 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Guido van Rossum writes:
>
> > And I still think that any return type for group() except bytes or str
> > is wrong. (Except possibly a subclass of these.)
>
> I'm not sure I understand. Do you mea
you'd only see complaints from folks who (a) use the regex
module, (b) use it with a buffer object as the target string, and (c)
try to use the group() return value as a dict key. Each of these is
probably a small majority of all users.
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
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