ery effort to make sure that Py3k doesn't
unnecessarily backpropagate into an otherwise very stable codebase. An
unwarranted s/xrange/range/g would be just one more reason to not upgrade to
Py2.6.
Raymond
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I question the sanity of the spec writers in this case, I do trust that
overall, they have provided an extremely well thought-out spec, have gone
through extensive discussion/feedback cycles, and have provided a thorough
test-suite. It is as good as it gets.
Ray
ility bug)"
If I still have any say in the matter, please consider this a pronouncement.
Tim, if you're listening, please chime in.
Raymond
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. The logical operations are there for environments where decimal is
the only available numeric type.
IIRC, this is how Rexx works with decimal implemented around strings where what
you type is what you get.
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callback(s):
print 'Set %d now has %d items' % (id(s), len(s))
s.listeners.append(callback)
s.add(existing_element) # no callback
s.add(new_element) # callback
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#x27;m not sure I see how to make it work.
If s|t returned an iterator, then how would s|t|u work?
Are you proposing lazy evaluation of unions, intersections,
and differences?
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nicode encodings and other
other transformations (uu, zlib, bz2, quopri, etc)?
FWIW, transform()/untransform() are already in the 3.2 beta.
Do you want them taken out? If so, do you want the codecs
made accessible with encode/decode or have them continue
to be inaccessible in 3.x?
R
der or
rework some of the new features (such as transform/untransform).
Raymond
P.S. We really ought to stop with the SafeFoo naming convention.
It is only descriptive to the person who wrote the class or function,
not to the user who will immediately wonder, "safe from what?"
Safe can
On Dec 6, 2010, at 11:40 AM, Fred Drake wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Raymond Hettinger
> wrote:
>> We really ought to stop with the SafeFoo naming convention.
>> It is only descriptive to the person who wrote the class or function,
>> not to the user who
de is short and readable. From my quick read, it looks to
be a relatively thin wrapper/adapter around existing tools. Most of the work
still gets done by the threads or processes themselves. Think of this as a
cleaner, more centralized API around the current toolset -- there is no deep
new tec
> callable(max)
>> + True
>> + >>> callable(20)
>> + False
>
> Placeholder example?
>
Trivial function begets a trivial example :-)
If you think it warrants more, I'm open to suggestions.
Raymond
_
se() just so they could match the built-in API.
It's time for swapcase() to go the way of the dinosaurs.
Raymond
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Does anyone know why this needed a separate module and so many accessor
functions?
ISTM it mostly could have been reduced to single call returning a nested
dictionary.
Raymond
from sysconfig import *
import json
def sysconf():
return dict(paths = get_paths(),
config_vars
ccessor functions living in a new module.
Tastes may vary on writing getter functions for every category
of interest but we did not need a whole new module for this.
The referenced email didn't indicate much if any thought about
the API design, so I think should get that thought now.
If those
On Dec 10, 2010, at 12:56 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 12:27:26 -0800
> Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>>
>> IMO, sysconfig did not warrant a whole module.
>
> Where would you put it?
A single function in the sys module.
>
>> Rather than usi
12/10/2010 4:59 PM, R. David Murray wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Like Éric, I'm not sure what the implications of the existing module
>>>>> having been released in 2.7 and 3.2 beta are in terms of making such an
>>>>> API change.
>>>>
>
than a deliberate comma-for-the-future.
Raymond
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On Dec 13, 2010, at 2:16 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Raymond Hettinger
> wrote:
>>
>> It seems to me that a trailing comma in an argument list is more likely to
>> be a user error than a deliberate comma-for-the-future.
>
>
On Dec 14, 2010, at 3:38 AM, Fred Drake wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 6:24 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> The good thing about that idea is that maintenance of buggy.py will be so
>> simple!
>
> It's self-describing, and needs no further documentation. :-)
>
And psychologically more effect
x27;a' stands for 'after' and 'b' for 'before', right? :-)
If you go down the a / b path instead of actual/expected,
the diffs are straight-forward but some of the other
output styles needed to be changed also (replace the
messages for "unexpect
not it x"
The notion of "making symmetric" can easily get carried too far, which a
corresponding loss of useability. You get 95% of the benefit from two small
changes:
* Change the parameter names from "actual" and "expected" to "f
ases aren't worth
breaking the rules.
And the purported goal (saving one line) isn't much of a payoff.
* The language moratorium is ending but the aversion to non-essential
micro-syntax changes persists.
* And, Georg doesn't like it :-)
Raymond
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rting Python 2 code to Python 3. If I have time left over
> it will be spent on the test suite.
Woohoo. Nice to have you working on these tasks.
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people's first chance to hear the outcome
of the multi-year discussion.
Thanks,
Raymond
On Jan 6, 2011, at 3:50 PM, And Clover wrote:
> On Tue, 2011-01-04 at 03:44 +0100, Victor Stinner wrote:
>> What is this horrible encoding "bytes-as-unicode"?
>
> It is a unicode s
ng them takes away a resource and gains
nothing.
Raymond
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that if we're going to use python packages as "namespace containers" for
categorizing modules, then the top level __init__ namespace should be left
empty.
Before the placement of html.escape() becomes set in stone, I think we should
consider putting it somew
ll be hard to undo.
I recommend moving it under Lib/test before everything is set in stone.
Raymond
P.S. I've discussed this with Michael and his preference is against going back
to the Py3.1 style where the tests were under Lib/test. He thinks the current
tree makes it easier to sync
On Jan 24, 2011, at 3:40 PM, Michael Foord wrote:
> It isn't just unittest, it seems that all *test packages* are in their
> respective package and not Lib/test except for the json module where Raymond
> already moved the tests:
>
>distutils/tests
>emai
ogether, or added to unittest if it's still deemed
>> important.
>>
>> +/- ?
>
> I say drop it if it can be done so safely.
Yes, please remove fcmp() altogether.
Like you said, the usage is trivial.
If you're feeling bold, replace them with assertEqual(),
the tests l
ve helped quite a few "python newbies" on Windows who are also surprised /
> frustrated on learning that "python" on the command line doesn't work after
> installing python.
At the very least, we should add some prominent instructions for getting the
command
On Jan 30, 2011, at 8:21 PM, eli.bendersky wrote:
Please use the open tracker item and do not edit the document directly.
Raymond
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say 3.2.0 but I'm opposed to
changing anything in the release at this point. We have some
real bugfixes that we're delaying until 3.2.1, so why would we
make an exception for a non-essential changes such as this.
Raymond
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e same thing yesterday when viewing with the Chrome browser
but it looked fine on Firefox. Later, after restarting the browsers the
problem disappeared. I wonder if there was some sort of caching issue.
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fort you put in.
I'll do some tests today.
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they were separate, it would complicate backporting patches
and merges. So, I'm happy with how George and Benjamin put this together.
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be totally random from your (the programmer's)
> POV.
I concur with Antoine.
Also, it wasn't the iteration order that changed; sets still iterate in the
same order.
What changed was the algorithm for creating a new set using a set difference
operation.
Raymond
__
;> I really meant superfetatory (it's slightly different: superfluous is
>> simply useless, while superfetatory implies that it's in excess).
>
> Maybe "supernumerary" serves?
Plain, everyday English would serve better than using words which people need
to look
or the link. Their roadmap made my day:
High priority: code to spawn spiders in the forest
Medium priority: write pet rat fetch quest
And best of all, the "animate rat" task is assigned to "Musk of Ephesus".
Raymond
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mmitted, shouldn't the
>> check go in a pre-commit hook instead?
>
> Well, it's more user-friendly to help "hg addremove" work as expected,
> rather than add hooks down the line to forbid pushing any mistakes.
I concur.
Raymond
_
Today, there was a significant check-in to the peephole optimizer that I think
should be reverted:
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/14205d0fee45/
The peephole optimizer pre-dated the introduction of the abstract syntax tree.
Now that we have an AST, the preferred way to implement
for wanting to optimize,
but think your efforts are misdirected and that you should be
taking some advice from the guy who wrote thing in the first place.
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it, when a better and more reliable approach exists? The patch hasn't even
been demonstrated to be necessary in any real-world code.
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I would like to withdraw my suggestion for the recursive constant folding patch
to be reverted. I value social harmony much more than a decision about whether
a particular patch is a good idea. I apologize to anyone who is upset over the
discussion.
Raymond
2 should be substantially better in this regard.
It no longer wraps key objects around every input. Instead, it
sorts two parallel arrays of pointers. You can thank Daniel
Stutzbach (another Googler I believe) for this effort.
Raymond
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On Mar 13, 2011, at 7:41 PM, Tim Lesher wrote:
> [I mentioned this to Raymond Hettinger after his PyCon talk, and I
> promised a bug and hopefully a patch. I don't see an obvious solution,
> though, so I'll ask here first.]
Just make a tracker entry and assign it to me.
I
d or cared about
since the introduction of named tuples a few years ago
or since the publication of its recipe in years prior to that.
Raymond
P.S. There are other ways like creating an abstract
base class to identify a class as having underscored
names that aren't private (like _from_iter
lower). Existing code in the field
> tests this version attribute, so I don't think it should be deleted.
The version number in the decimal module refers to the version of the
spec that is being complied with. I would like that version number
to remain in the module.
There are probably other
do, and
> I won't be able to contribute anymore (I have not even started to
> learn mercurial yet). Plus I'm still using 2.6 or even 2.5 with my own
> Python projects.
>
> Goodbye.
You will be missed.
Thanks for all your efforts.
Raymond
hink the more complex workflow if worth it. Mercurial is very user
friendly right out of the box will simple commands. But as soon as you require
the branches to be inter-linked, you've made it much more difficult to get
simple checkins done.
Raymond
ked with py3k warnings in
Py2.7 point releases. That would give users the maximum chance to make updates
before porting, even if they wait five years to migrate to Py3.x.
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#x27;re going to have
to expect a lot of questions. And those questions shouldn't be brushed-off
with "go read the tutorial, we have no time for you" or words to that effect.
RAymond
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On Mar 21, 2011, at 8:25 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
> Does Mercurial have a way of acting like a centralized vcs to the end user,
> the way Bazaar does? IOW, if Skip or others were more comfortable with a
> centralized workflow (which is entirely valid imo), can they set up their
> local workspac
rkflow described in the PEP. If the current workflow
had been described there, I don't think it would have been
readily accepted.
Raymond
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On Mar 28, 2011, at 12:38 AM, Daniel Stutzbach wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 10:53 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 2:11 PM, Daniel Stutzbach
> wrote:
> > Is there a good use-case for the func argument?
>
> The examples that Raymond gives in
ld be a button to fold as well as one to unfold.
+1
Raymond
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/qyKv/
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577629-namedtupleabc-abstract-base-class-mix-in-for-named/
Raymond
P.S. The old svn viewer worked great (looked good and could be cut),
but that was changed just before the Mercurial switchover (the fonts
changed, the line numbering code changed, an
On Mar 31, 2011, at 9:52 AM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> I would like to try putting the comment box after the last (most recent)
> comment, as that is the message one most ofter responds to. Having to now
> scroll up and down between comment box and last message(s) is often of a
> nuisance.
While t
tes, whatever you want to call it, but when it comes to following a
> discussion it's much easier to start with the first word.
Perhaps the most important part is that the comment box goes at the top.
Raymond
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On Mar 31, 2011, at 5:30 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:15:48 -0700
> Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>> The Hg source viewer needs to be tweaked to improve its usability.
>> What we've got now is a step backwards from the previous svn viewer.
>>
>&
On Mar 31, 2011, at 5:55 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le jeudi 31 mars 2011 à 17:46 -0700, Raymond Hettinger a écrit :
>> On Mar 31, 2011, at 5:30 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:15:48 -0700
>>> Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>>>>
On Mar 31, 2011, at 6:28 PM, Victor Stinner wrote:
> Le 01/04/2011 01:15, Raymond Hettinger a écrit :
>> The Hg source viewer needs to be tweaked to improve its usability.
>> What we've got now is a step backwards from the previous svn viewer.
>>
>> Looking at h
install this, or something else, or change the
> templates? If so, please let me know so I can give you access to
> dinsdale.
Yes please.
Raymond
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h min, sort, etc.
A good PEP should address these issues head-on.
Just saying that C and python code have to
be semantically identical in all implementation
details doesn't really address the issue.
[Brett]
> (sorry, Raymond, for picking on heapq, but is
> was what bit the PyPy pe
ake it impossible for client code
to use subclasses of builtin types (issue 10977). That is
another area where differences will arise that will matter
to some users.
Raymond
P.S. It would be great if the PEP were to supply a
complete, real-word example of code that is considered
to be identical. A
PEP just boil down to "if a test is C specific, it should be
marked as such"?
Anyone setting out to create equivalent code is already trying to making it as
functionally equivalent as possible. At some point, we should help
implementers by thinking out what kinds of implementation d
On Apr 6, 2011, at 1:22 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 12:45, Raymond Hettinger
> wrote:
>
> On Apr 6, 2011, at 10:39 AM, Brett Cannon wrote:
> > Since people are taking my "semantically identical" point too strongly for
> &g
e next() method is called while the C equivalent makes the
check immediately upon instantiation (i.e. map(chr, 3) raises TypeError
immediately in C but a pure python generator won't raise until the generator is
actually run).
Raymond
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On Apr 6, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> For the record, I've tried to make the force build form clearer on the
> buildbot Web UI. See e.g.:
> http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/all/builders/x86%20OpenIndiana%20custom
Much improved. Tha
thing to learn and maintain
* many ways to do it (code paste, rietveld, attaching a patch, plain text, etc)
* smells of feature creep
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e PEP should address whether we want any new
C modules at all. That would be better than setting a formal
requirement that doesn't address any of the realities of building
two versions of a module and keeping them in sync.
Raymond
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ation detail of a class to its
> subclasses, and make "fragile base class" problems worse. (i.e., where an
> internal change to a base class breaks a previously-working subclass).
I agree. Better for someone to submit a recipe for a variant of super and see
if there is any uptake.
me the core parsing logic won't
be changing much.
Raymond
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ss that makes an explicit
__init__ call to the external class and then calls super().__init__()
to continue the forwarding.
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e
> collectively choose to), but I'm assuming we won't.
>
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2011-April/110675.html
>
> Raymond thinks that have a testing requirement conflates having
> implementations match vs. APIs.
That is not an accurate restate
ight be acceptable to Antoine. Actually, I would also be fine with
> saying "comprehensive" instead, with a note that 100% branch coverage is
> a good way to head toward that goal, since a comprehensive test suite
> should contain more tests than the minimum set needed to get to 100%
On Apr 18, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Maciej Fijalkowski wrote:
>
> * we usually target CPython version that's already frozen, which is
> pretty inconvinient to post this changes back. Example would be a
> socket module where it has changed enough in 3.x that 2.7 changes make
> no sense.
Do you have an
elf > other)],
'__ge__': [('__le__', lambda self, other: (not self >= other) or self
== other),
('__gt__', lambda self, other: self >= other and not self ==
other),
('__lt__', lambda self, other: not
tegory
as creating a __hash__ that has no relationship to __eq__ or making
self-referencing sets or setting False,True=1,0 in python 2. See
http://bertrandmeyer.com/2010/02/06/reflexivity-and-other-pillars-of-civilization/
for a nice blog post on the subject.
Raymond
_
27;s possible for a sequence to
define a __len__ that is different from it true length; it
just won't behave well with the various pieces of code
that assume collections are equal if the lengths are unequal.
All of this seems reasonable to me.
Raymond
__
On Apr 27, 2011, at 10:16 AM, Alexander Belopolsky wrote:
> Unfortunately NaNs are not that exotic.
They're exotic in the sense that they have the unusual property of not being
equal to themselves.
Exotic (adj) strikingly strange or unusual
have no problem
using NaNs as-is. AFAICT, the only actual
problem in front us is the OP's post where
he was able to surprise himself with some
NaN experiments at the interactive prompt.
Raymond
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ts as compared to learning tons
> of new methods. YMMV.
I've also observed that people appreciate using asserts with nose.py and
py.test.
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On Apr 28, 2011, at 3:07 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 2:53 PM, Raymond Hettinger
> wrote:
>>
>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 1:27 PM, Holger Krekel wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>>>
to http://www.python.org/dev/daily-dmg/ , I've been able
to work off of the head every day. Python 3.2.1 is in pretty good shape :-)
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;> # reference to the item argument!
>>
>> Should we change this file then?
>> And only list functions that don't follow the usual conventions.
>>
>> But I'm sure that there are external tools which already use refcounts.dat
>> in its present f
On May 5, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> 2011/5/5 raymond.hettinger :
>> http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/1a56775c6e54
>> changeset: 69857:1a56775c6e54
>> branch: 3.2
>> parent: 69855:97a4855202b8
>> user:Raymond Hettinger
&g
'm parsing a .dbf file and extracting field types from the byte stream,
> I'm not thinking, "okay, 67 is a Character field" -- what I'm thinking is,
> "b'C' is a Character field".
>
> Considering that ord() still works fine, I'm not
the same
hash value".
Raymond
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On Jun 3, 2011, at 10:27 AM, eric.araujo wrote:
>
> Fix reST label for collections ABCs.
>
> The previous markup hijacked the abstract-base-classes glossary entry,
> which resulted in the HTML linking to collections.abc when defining the
> generic ABC concept. Now the glossary links to the abc
eworks, and high level APIs, but I agree with Martin that
the Socket HOWTO needs to cover sockets. That's what a person expects
to learn when they click on the Socket HOWTO link.
Raymond
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t-forward, least
magical implementations of object (why we use array based
lists instead of blist for example). The are exceptions
such as Python 3's version of super() but this isn't the norm.
I do suggest that you publish your code as a third-party module
to make the optional available and to validate whether there
is any real interest in this.
Raymond
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On Jun 12, 2011, at 3:18 PM, Greg Ewing wrote:
> Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>
>> The problem you're trying to solve isn't unique to structs.
>> That's why we get periodic requests for ropes-like behaviors
>
> I don't think he's asking for rope
On Jun 30, 2011, at 2:14 AM, Ezio Melotti wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 2:51 AM, raymond.hettinger
> wrote:
> Fixup repr for dict_proxy objects.
>
>
> This was already fixed in a slightly different way in 3.x.
The %R formatting code is not available in 2.x
Raymond_
do nothing more than improve
> test coverage, not exercise a fix for a bug.
>
> I say don't add new tests for the sake of coverage or adding new tests to
> stable branches. Tests for bugfixes are practically required.
I concur with Brett. Nothing good w
Please don't add the IRC link to the devguide.
Based on conversations with Guido, he is against it being part of the core
development process.
Raymond
On Jul 21, 2011, at 4:08 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 7:16 PM, Ezio Melotti wrote:
>>
>> FWIW yo
seless.
Collectively however, we've gotten nice speed-ups on real programs.
Raymond
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LaTeX mistakes and giving high-quality
error reporting.
Raymond
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(more than a line or two). For a long-time, we've
always said that it is okay to submit plain text doc contributions and
that another person downstream would do the mark-up. We've had
few takers.
Raymond
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(more than a line or two). For a long-time, we've
always said that it is okay to submit plain text doc contributions and
that another person downstream would do the mark-up. We've had
few takers.
Raymond
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Python-D
(more than a line or two). For a long-time, we've
always said that it is okay to submit plain text doc contributions and
that another person downstream would do the mark-up. We've had
few takers.
Raymond
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