ze out more digits of
precision per bit of storage than decimal floats, or that binary
floats are faster because they are supported by specialized hardware,
then I'd go along, but they're not a "better model".
-- Michael Chermside
___
hat it is always trumped by adding
another digit of precision to your numbers / lookup tables / whatever.
If so, then even more credit needs to be given to the system that
supports adjustable precision (the Decimal module).
-- Michael Chermside
___
Pyt
Duncan Booth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Does Coverity recognise objects on Python's internal pools as deallocated?
Coverity doesn't work on that level; it analyzes source code, and
knows about Python's INCREFs and DECREFs.
> The moral is to regard the reference counting rules as law: no matt
ersely affect behavior in
only slightly edgy cases, perhaps it should go through a warning phase
(which ideally could show the exception that was thrown, thus yielding
most or all of the intended debugging advantage).
Michael
--
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__
nnoying at
times. We should fix those times, not the (unbroken) exception.
Michael
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"M.-A. Lemburg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The point here is that a typical user won't expect any comparisons
> to be made when dealing with dictionaries, simply because the fact
> that you do need to make comparisons is an implementation detail.
Of course looking things up in a dictionary inv
hen later in the code we could do things like this:
language = 'en'
dayOfWeek = DaysOfWeek.Mon
month = Months.Jan
dayOfMonth = 3
print '%s, %s %s' % (
translations[dayOfWeek][language],
translations[month][language],
dayOfMonth)
# this works in 2.4 but fails in 2.5
- end problem_with_dicts.py
Please reconsider.
-- Michael Chermside
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Michael Chermside <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I'm changing the subject line because I want to convince everyone that
> the problem being discussed in the "unicode hell" thread has nothing
> to do with unicode and strings. It's all about dicts.
I'd
Because of a requirement to remain compatible with AIX 4.3, I have been forced
to stay with Python 2.3, because while 2.4 would compile under AIX 4.3, it would
segfault immediately when run.
I'm happy to report that Python 2.5b3 compiles and runs fine under AIX 4.3, and
passes most of its test sui
Marc-Andre Lemburg writes:
> How about generating a warning instead and then go for the exception
> in 2.6 ?
Agreed. Michael Hudson's explanation convinced me.
-- Michael Chermside
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with a "not convertible" exception). Which of the
> two conversions is selected is arbitrary; we should, of
> course, continue to use the one we always used (for
> "ascii", there is no difference between the two).
>
>
+1
This seems the most (onl
king this is fine in principle - but for Py3K
not Py 2.x.
That means Martin's solution is the best for the current problem. (IMHO
of course...)
Michael
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml
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Neal Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 1) Should assignment to a temporary object be allowed?
The question doesn't make sense: in Python, you assign to a name,
an attribute or a subscript, and that's it.
Cheers,
mwh
--
I think there's a rather large difference between a stale
"Jim Jewett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> It wasn't my idea to stop ignoring exceptions in dict lookups; I would
>> gladly have put this off until Py3k, where the main problem
>> (str-unicode __eq__ raising UnicodeError) will go away.
>
>> But since people are adamant that they want this in soon
tion, we can satisfy both imagined camps. Those
in Armin's position can make that warning raise an exception while
debugging, and those using it on purpose can squash it.
I understand the utility of being able to see this case happening. I'm
not s
On 8/9/06, Michael Hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The question doesn't make sense: in Python, you assign to a name,
> an attribute or a subscript, and that's it.
Just to play devil's advocate here, why not to a function call via a
new __setcall__? I'm no
Michael Urman writes:
> I strongly believe that unicode vs str here is the symptom and not the
> actual problem. The comparison between two non-us-ascii str/unicode
> instances is but one of many ways to raise an exception during
> comparison.
[... example ...]
> Yes this
icode but let everyone else using objects that
raise exceptions suffer), but I think it would be more friendly to
use warnings for now and exceptions after another full release
cycle. The warnings should solve the underlying issue (hard-to-debug
problems).
-- Michael Chermside
_
to
release ElementTree in the stdlib exactly as it is in 2.5 and change
it for 2.6.
-- Michael Chermside
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I think we should note this policy someplace official -- perhaps
in the Language Reference where __eq__ and __lt__ are defined. But
I do not think that these changes should be made until Py3K.
What do others think? Is this the "right" approach?
--
"A.M. Kuchling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Mon, Aug 21, 2006 at 12:24:54PM -0700, Brett Cannon wrote:
>> As for the docs, they just need a thorough updating.
>
> Michael Hudson was working on a new guide to extending/embedding
> Python. Incorporating
"Gustavo Carneiro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> According to [1], all python needs to do to avoid this problem is
> block all signals in all but the main thread;
Argh, no: then people who call system() from non-main threads end up
running subprocesses with all signals masked, which breaks other
ke this:
S.partition(sep) -> (head, sep, tail)
S.rpartition(sep) -> (tail, sep, rest)
Perhaps someone else can find something clearer than my suggestion,
but in my own head, the terms "head" and "tail" are tighly bound
with the idea of beginning and end (respective
"Gustavo Carneiro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On 9/4/06, Nick Maclaren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> "Gustavo Carneiro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > I am now thinking of something along these lines:
>> > typedef void (*PyPendingCallNotify)(void *user_data);
>> > PyAPI_FUNC(void) Py_AddPend
pplication I work
with, which used an explicit 'wU', that will currently stop working
when people upgrade Python but not our application.
Thanks,
Michael
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"Michael Urman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Hi folks,
>
> Between 2.4 and 2.5 the behavior of file or open with the mode 'wU'
> has changed. In 2.4 it silently works. in 2.5 it raises a ValueError.
> I can't find any more discussion on it in python
On 11 Sep 2006, at 09:34, Neal Norwitz wrote:
> Michael,
>
> In Python/pystate.c, you made this checkin:
>
> """
> r39044 | mwh | 2005-06-20 12:52:57 -0400 (Mon, 20 Jun 2005) | 8 lines
>
> Fix bug: [ 1163563 ] Sub threads execute in restricted mode
>
"Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Michael Hudson schrieb:
>>> According to [1], all python needs to do to avoid this problem is
>>> block all signals in all but the main thread;
>>
>> Argh, no: then people who call system() from non
Hiho,
in case noone didn't notice yet: the "Windows MSI Installer" link at
http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.5/ points to Python 2.4!
Regards,
Michael
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kinter :
import _tkinter._flatten as flatten
There are several different possible approaches in pure Python, but is
this an idea that has legs ?
All the best,
Michael Foord
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 18:43:42 +0100, Michael Foord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>> I have a suggestion for a new Python built in function: 'flatten'.
>>
>
> This seems superficially like a good idea, but I think add
In Python 2.4, traceback.print_exc() and traceback.format_exc() silently
do nothing if there is no active exception; in Python 2.5, they raise an
exception. Not too difficult to handle, but unexpected (and a pain if
you use it in a lot of places). I assume it was an unintentional change?
Mike
Anthony Baxter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I'd like to propose that the AST format returned by passing PyCF_ONLY_AST to
> compile() get the same guarantee in maintenance branches as the bytecode
> format - that is, unless it's absolutely necessary, we'll keep it the same.
> Otherwise anyone t
Milan Krcmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I would like to run Python scripts on an embedded MIPS Linux platform
> having only 2 MiB of flash ROM and 16 MiB of RAM for everything.
>
> Current (2.5) stripped and gzipped (I am going to use a compressed
> filesystem) CPython binary, compiled with def
"Neal Norwitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I ignored these as I'm not certain all the platforms we run on accept
> free(NULL).
It's mandated by C99, and I don't *think* it changed from the previous
version (I only have a bootleg copy of C99 :).
Cheers,
mwh
--
TRSDOS: Friendly old lizard. O
Thanks!
Mike
Georg Brandl wrote:
> Michael Glassford wrote:
>> In Python 2.4, traceback.print_exc() and traceback.format_exc() silently
>> do nothing if there is no active exception; in Python 2.5, they raise an
>> exception. Not too difficult to handle, but unexpected (
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> I hope that eventually Python will include some form of OO
> filesystem access, but I am equally hopeful that the current PEP 355
> path.py is not it.
I think I agree with this too. For another source of ideas there is
the 'py.path' bit of the py lib, which, um, doesn
while True until False: # run once? run forever?
while True until True: # run forever? run once?
It's still very different from any syntactical syntax I can think of
in python. I'm not sure I like the idea.
Michael
--
Michael Urman http://www.tortall.net/mu/blog
___
"Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Kristján V. Jónsson schrieb:
>> I can't see how this situation is any different from the re-use of
>> low ints. There is no fundamental law that says that ints below 100
>> are more common than other, yet experience shows that this is so,
>> and so
em. Particularly the SVN integration.
If rest2web is a serious option and needs any customisation, I'd be
happy to look into it.
Michael Foord
> Once again, it's a matter of people putting the time in
"Mike Klaas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> [http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1579370&group_id=5470&atid=105470]
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm managed to provoke a segfault in python2.5 (occasionally it just a
> "invalid argument to internal function" error). I've posted a
> traceback
ct readme.txt at:
http://svn.brownspencer.com/pycompiler/branches/new_ast/readme.txt
Code is available in Subversion at
http://svn.brownspencer.com/pycompiler/branches/new_ast/
The main test script is test/test_compiler.py which compiles all the modules in
/Lib and /Lib/test and com
up the good work! Some day I'd like to see NumPy built in
to the standard Python distribution. The incremental, PEP by PEP approach
you are taking is the best route to getting there. But there may be
some changes along the way -- convergence with ctypes may be one of
> install the keys for you.
>
I'll need svn access to svn.python.org too for the roundup tracker.
My key is over at http://translucentcode.org/mick/ssh_key.txt
firstname.lastname: michael.twomey
cheers,
Michael
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as roots, but I don't know that
there's any requirement for a /.. to be meaningless (even if it often
is).
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Hopefully by now you have heard of the "Summer of PyPy", our program
for funding the expenses of attending a sprint for students. If not,
you've just read the essence of the idea :-)
However, the PyPy EU funding period is drawing to an end and there is
now only one sprint left where we can sponso
say that it makes more sense to me than
your reaction indicates.
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Giovanni Bajo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Hello,
>
> I spent my last couple of hourse reading several past threads about fpectl.
> If
> I'm correct
>
> 1) fpectl is scheduled for deletion in 2.6.
> 2) The biggest problem is that the C standard says that it's undefined to
> return from a SIGFP
linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> class Foo(object):
... def __unicode__(self):
... print "unicode"
... return u"hi"
... def __str__(self):
... print "str&
aside, if you're trying to show that inconsistencies in a
language are bad by referencing a paper showing that people who used
consistent (if incorrect) mental models scored better than those who
did not, you may have to explain further; I don't see the connection.
--
Michael Urman h
eful as indexing. Really I don't use regexps enough in Python to
have a position; I was more interested in figuring out where the
type(m) == type(m[:]) idea had come from, as I had never formed it.)
--
Michael Urman http://www.tortall.net/mu/blog
___
ings easier on everyone because there's less to remember, not
because it makes us better learners of the skills necessary for
programming well. The arguments I saw in the paper only addressed the
second point.
--
Michael Urman http://www.tortall.net/mu/blog
Hello all,
Could / should 'PropertyType' be added to the types module ?
Michael Foord
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles.shtml
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Georg Brandl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Armin Rigo schrieb:
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 11:10:10PM +, Paul Moore wrote:
>>> How many other projects/packages anticipate *not* migrating to Py3K, I
>>> wonder?
>>
>> FWIW: Psyco.
>
> What will PyPy do? It will certainly support
>
>
The string holds 'a string' (singular), the bytes datatype will hold
'bytes' plural. Bytes is more accurate and I would stumble over byte.
Michael Foord
>
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> On 10:12 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>For practical reasons (we have enough work to be getting on with) PyPy
>>is more-or-less ignoring Python 2.5 at the moment. After funding and
>>so on, when there's less pressure, maybe it will seem worth it. Not
>>soon though.
Nick Coghlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Neil Toronto wrote:
>> I imagine this would be important to someone expecting system resources
>> to be cleaned up, closed, deallocated, or returned inside of __del__
>> methods. Someone coming from C++ might expect LIFO behavior because
>> common idio
"Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Bug #1579370 reports a crash when accessing the thread state of
> a terminated thread, when releasing a generator object.
>
> In analysing the problem, I found that f_tstate doesn't have much
> utility: it is used in very few places, and in these pla
Giovanni Bajo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On 23/01/2007 10.20, Brian Warner wrote:
>
Do I miss something here, or is the buildbot hit by spammers now?
>>> It looks like it is. If that continues, we have to disable the web
>>> triggers.
>>
>> Good grief. If anyone has any bright ideas about
t accept a solution
which subclassed a string type?
Michael Foord
> There's a Path class for pathname calculations, and a FSPath subclass
> for filesystem calls. I'm hoping Path -- or something resembling it
> -- will find its way into os.path in Python 2.6 or 3.0. FSPath is
&
I had an idea on some new functionality I'd like to see offered
in the python object class. I did some searching on the list
but I wouldn't doubt that someone has proposed something
like this before as chaining method calls seems like something
folks would want to do.
Specifically, I'd like to
Greg Ewing wrote:
> Michael O'Keefe wrote:
>
>> I'd like to see a built-in shorthand to allow me to
>> chain method calls even when a method call does not explicity
>> return a reference to the instance of the object (self).
>>
>
>
>
currently) we use
getattr / setattr almost as many as 8 times. (I was very surprised at
how low that was.)
That said, when I explained the proposal to two of my colleagues both of
them were *very* happy with the obj.[name] suggestion.
Michael Foord
> Sorry for the noise,
>
> A
to the current situation) by having the
traceback information overwritten, they just can't take direct advantage
of the new attribute.
Michael Foord
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Greg Ewing wrote:
> Michael Foord wrote:
>
>> With the
>> proposed changes, modules that do this would *continue* to work, surely
>> ?
>>
>
> Probably, but it might mean they were no longer thread
> safe. An exception caught and raised in one thr
> newbies could unwittingly emulate).
>
>
Personally, I think the new attributes and the new syntax are *great*
improvements to exception handling. I would be sad to see parts of these
proposals not happen.
Michael Foord
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Greg Ewing wrote:
> Michael Foord wrote:
>
>> Greg Ewing wrote:
>>
>>
>>> An exception caught and raised in one thread would
>>> be vulnerable to having its traceback clobbered by
>>> another thread raising the same instance.
>>&g
rtunity to involve new developers - but
some kind of active engagement would seem appropriate...
All the best,
Michael Foord
> Regards,
> Martin
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Greg Ewing wrote:
> Michael Foord wrote:
>
>> With the
>> proposed changes, modules that do this would *continue* to work, surely
>> ?
>>
>
> Probably, but it might mean they were no longer thread
> safe. An exception caught and raised in one thr
s built in
functions ? If they were specified then the IronPython guys would have
to implement it for us. B-)
I realise that this can allow bad some bad programming patterns, but
there are times when it can be very useful.
All the best,
Michael Foord
Martin v. Löwis wrote:
> Michael Foord schrieb:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I realise that this may be more relevant to Python ideas, in which
>> case feel free to ignore this (and my apologies).
>>
>> I occasionally see code looking (something) like :
>>
>
ven been shown to fix bugs in
current code ?
Honestly it is this sort of pointless prevarication that gives
python-dev a bad name.
Michael Foord
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oot + ext
== path, and ext is empty or begins with a period and contains at most
one period.
Even the docstring only states that either part may be empty, hardly
documenting what is clearly a misfeature.
Michael Foord
> Tim Delaney
> ___
>
> at hand.
>
It looks to me like a clear bugfix (the fact that there were unit tests
for the insane behaviour doesn't make it any less a bug). The current
docstring that states that the first element may be empty hardly counts
as it being a 'documented featur
is everything from the last dot to the end.
> ^
> Return (root, ext), either part may be empty.
>
> That's pretty explicit.
>
>
Hmm... mis-memory on my part. Apologies.
Michael
> Tim Delaney
> ___
ople
want to retrieve the file name without the extension, we should add a
function to return this basic name. Who would rather see
os.path.dropext(path)?
Michael
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er value judgements reflected
in Misc/NEWS, there are no similar APIs with which we can compare
behavior and match to increase consistency.
Michael
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Sorry for the top post, but I couldn't find the right place to interject...
Are you going to try it ?
Michael
Guido van Rossum wrote:
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Mustafa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Mar 19, 2007 11:41 AM
> Subject: have u seen
dev
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/python-python-dev%40m.gmane.org
>
FWIW, I've already implemented bytecode generation from AST,
http://svn.brownspencer.com/pycompiler/branches/new_ast/
as I reported to this list previously.
http://mail.python.or
Brett Cannon wrote:
> On 3/19/07, Michael Spencer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
...
>>>
>> FWIW, I've already implemented bytecode generation from AST,
>> http://svn.brownspencer.com/pycompiler/branches/new_ast/
>> as I reported to this list previously.
>&
I'd like to put something back into Python and can be around on that day.
Michael
> Skip
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&g
gt; Sure. os.fork() and the os.exec*() family can stay. But os.spawn*(),
> that abomination invented by Microsoft? I also hear no opposition
> against killign os.system() and os.popen()
Except that 'os.system' is really easy to use and I use it rarely enough
that I *
Titus Brown wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2007 at 09:34:46PM +0000, Michael Foord wrote:
> -> Guido van Rossum wrote:
> -> > Sure. os.fork() and the os.exec*() family can stay. But os.spawn*(),
> -> > that abomination invented by Microsoft? I also hear no opposition
>
Neal Norwitz gmail.com> writes:
>
> Can you call PyMem_FREE() without the GIL held? I couldn't find it
> documented either way.
Nope. See comments at the top of Python/pystate.c.
Cheers,
mwh
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omma, no warning ...
> # silently becomes f("abcdef", None)
>
>
Implicit string concatenation is massively useful for creating long
strings in a readable way though:
call_something("first part\n"
"second l
s a rather nasty
version.
On the flip side if we're eval'ing an expression to get a docstring, there
would be great temptation to extend that to be a doc-object - eg using
dictionaries, etc as well for more specific docs. Is that wise? I d
gt; easy to learn (if you leave out the detail that \ can't be the last
> character in a raw string - which should get fixed also, IMO).
+1
Michael Foord
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ould be
> possible to use those instead of the current LaTeX->latex2html toolchain.
>
> For the impatient: the result can be seen at <http://pydoc.gbrandl.de>.
>
Wow! Very impressive.
Changing to ReST would encourage more contributions to the documentation
and widen the r
ine is going to blow up with a NameError.
I would suggest putting this common setup code into a _make_test_dir()
helper function in regrtest, then have both regrtest and test.__main__
call it.
Ok, good suggestion. Thanks
Michael
Cheers,
Nick.
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READ CAREFU
egrated in Python, I probably won't spend any time on it.
It seems like it'd be a good idea to start integrating distutils2 into python
trunk immediately after the 3.2 branch is cut, then.
+1 from me.
And from me.
Michael
Antoine.
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d library :-)
What would you name those functions instead?
(SafeConfigParser is a naff name and only needed because ConfigParser is
broken.)
Michael
Raymond
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plan for compatibility?
unittest2 will continue to track changes in unittest. A 0.6.0 release is
planned, with feature parity with the version of unittest in Python 3.2.
Of course if you want to help that would be much appreciated. :-)
All the best,
Michael Foord
Regards
--
http
form / untransform in the previous
thread.
Michael
The moratorium, if at all, would only cover the new methods,
not the other changes (readding the codecs and fixing the
codecs.py module to work with bytes as well as Unicode), all
of which were already discussed at length in several previous
disc
manager that an api change is really *essential*.
Michael
-Brett
2. How hard would it be to return the tasks processed in an output queue to
process/consume the results while they are returned? The code does not seem to
be very open for monkey patching.
3. How hard would it be to add new tasks
natures is even more preferable, but
*sometimes* they are needed.
All the best,
Michael Foord
That would be a lot of hassle to get rid of something that people
probably aren't doing in the first place, though.
Regards,
Nick.
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READ CAREFULLY. By accept
n on all
>
Shouldn't this be `python -m test.regrtest`, or even just `python -m test`?
Michael
> resources; specifying ``all`` as an option for ``-u`` enables all
> possible resources. If all but one resource is desired (a more common
> case), a
> comma-separated list of re
it’s
inconvenient to review in email, but I’d like to commit soon since I
have a big doc merge to do after this :)
The diff looks good to me.
All the best,
Michael
Best regards
--
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive o
to be applied quickly if
you can package it in the form of a test that demonstrates the issue and
a patch that fixes it.
http://bugs.python.org/
All the best,
Michael Foord
(Synergeticprocessing module is located at GitHub:
https://github.com/dpritsos/synergeticprocessing)
Starting with
esn't handle the full range of signals.
Michael
--
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
-- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/diff
is (actual, expected), to
reverse it would be dumb (why should everyone using the current ordering
reformat all their tests for the new order?).
So, -1 on dropping actual and expected. They're standard and useful
terminology / concepts for testing.
If we do move to a more "agnosti
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