Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: update 1

2019-05-21 Thread Brett Cannon
On Tue., May 21, 2019, 11:29 Antoine Pitrou, wrote: > > Le 21/05/2019 à 20:16, Brett Cannon a écrit : > > > > > > On Tue., May 21, 2019, 09:10 Christian Heimes, > <mailto:christ...@python.org>> wrote: > > > > On 21/05/2019 17.31, Antoine Pit

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: Removing dead batteries from the standard library

2019-05-21 Thread Brett Cannon
On Tue., May 21, 2019, 13:07 Neil Schemenauer, wrote: > On 2019-05-21, Terry Reedy wrote: > > The problem with this argument, taken by itself, it that it would argue > for > > adding to the stdlib 100s or 1000s of modules or packages that would be > > useful to many more people than the modules p

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: update 1

2019-05-22 Thread Brett Cannon
On Wed., May 22, 2019, 03:13 Antoine Pitrou, wrote: > On Tue, 21 May 2019 17:44:16 -0700 > Brett Cannon wrote: > > > > > > So I should never have added those tests and then we wouldn't be > talking > > > about removing nntplib. > > > > >

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: update 1

2019-05-23 Thread Brett Cannon
On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 1:23 PM Sean Wallitsch < sean.wallit...@dreamworks.com> wrote: > My apologies for that oversight. My understanding is that many of the > methods present in aifc depend heavily on audioop for reading and writing. > But are people using audioop directly? This shifts whether

[Python-Dev] we will probably be having an difficult discussion about the stdlib after PEP 594 is done (was: PEP 594: Removing dead batteries from the standard library)

2019-05-23 Thread Brett Cannon
On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 11:03 AM Barry Warsaw wrote: > On May 20, 2019, at 13:15, Christian Heimes wrote: > > > > here is the first version of my PEP 594 to deprecate and eventually > remove modules from the standard library. The PEP started last year with > talk during the Python Language Summi

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: update 1

2019-05-24 Thread Brett Cannon
On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 5:45 PM Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 02:06:13PM -0700, Brett Cannon wrote: > > On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 1:23 PM Sean Wallitsch < > > sean.wallit...@dreamworks.com> wrote: > > > > > My apologies for that oversi

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594 -- Bundling libraries?

2019-05-24 Thread Brett Cannon
On Fri, May 24, 2019 at 12:20 AM Inada Naoki wrote: > When removing libraries from stdlib, can we bundle > removed libraries and install it like ensurepip does? > I think that would require people picking those modules up and maintaining them. But even then I don't know how easy it would be to c

Re: [Python-Dev] we will probably be having an difficult discussion about the stdlib after PEP 594 is done

2019-05-24 Thread Brett Cannon
On Fri, May 24, 2019 at 11:07 AM Nathaniel Smith wrote: > On Fri, May 24, 2019, 08:08 Ben Cail wrote: > >> >> Why not have the PSF hire someone (or multiple people) to be paid to >> work on the maintenance burden? This could be similar to the Django >> fellows: >> https://www.djangoproject.com/f

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: update 1

2019-05-25 Thread Brett Cannon
Please start a new thread if you want to continue discussing what will come after Python 3.9. On Fri., May 24, 2019, 22:45 Glenn Linderman, wrote: > On 5/24/2019 9:09 PM, Random832 wrote: > > On Thu, May 23, 2019, at 15:27, Steve Holden wrote: > > Besides which, it would be lovely to have a majo

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: update 1

2019-05-26 Thread Brett Cannon
rovides >> helpers to pipe the input of one command into the output of another >> command. >> The module is built on top of ``os.popen``. Users are encouraged to use >> the subprocess module instead. >> >> Module type >> pure Python >> Deprecated in

Re: [Python-Dev] Per opcode cache for LOAD_GLOBAL

2019-05-29 Thread Brett Cannon
On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 6:21 AM Inada Naoki wrote: > Hi, all. > > Yury implemented per opcode cache for LOAD_GLOBAL, > LOAD_ATTR, and LOAD_METHOD. [1] > > I update the patch for current master branch, but only for > LOAD_GLOBAL for now. [2] It sped up LOAD_GLOBAL > about 40%. [3] It is attract

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 590: vectorcall without tp_call

2019-05-29 Thread Brett Cannon
On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 7:55 AM Jeroen Demeyer wrote: > On 2019-05-29 16:00, Christian Heimes wrote: > > You could add a check to PyType_Ready() and have it either return an > > error or fix tp_call. > > Yes, but the question is: which of these two alternatives? I would vote > for fixing tp_call

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 595: Improving bugs.python.org

2019-05-31 Thread Brett Cannon
On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 1:23 AM Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > I second this. > > There are currently ~7000 bugs open on bugs.python.org. The Web UI > makes a good job of actually being able to navigate through these bugs, > search through them, etc. > > Did the Steering Council conduct a usability s

Re: [Python-Dev] Have a big machine and spare time? Here's a possible Python bug.

2019-05-31 Thread Brett Cannon
On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 11:12 AM Tim Peters wrote: > [Tim] > >> I'm keen to get feedback on this before merging the PR, because this > >> case is so very much larger than anything I've ever tried that I'm > >> wary that there may be more than one "surprise" lurking here. ... > > [Inada Naoki ] >

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 594: update 1

2019-06-05 Thread Brett Cannon
On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 5:22 PM Victor Stinner wrote: > So what is happening for this PEP since Python 3.8 beta1 has been > released? Is it too late for Python 3.8 or not? > > It seems like most people are confused by the intent of the PEP. IMHO > it would be better to rewrite "Remove packages fro

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 594: update 1

2019-06-06 Thread Brett Cannon
On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 12:25 AM Christian Tismer wrote: > On 05.06.19 02:21, Victor Stinner wrote: > > So what is happening for this PEP since Python 3.8 beta1 has been > > released? Is it too late for Python 3.8 or not? > > > > It seems like most people are confused by the intent of the PEP. IMH

[Python-Dev] Re: Expected stability of PyCode_New() and types.CodeType() signatures

2019-06-10 Thread Brett Cannon
Neil Schemenauer wrote: > On 2019-05-31, Simon Cross wrote: > > As the maintainer of Genshi, one the libraries > > affected by the CodeType and > > similar changes, I thought I could add a users perspective to the > > discussion: [...] > > Thanks. I think this change to PyCode_New() could hav

[Python-Dev] Re: Using Generic Type Constructors at Runtime

2019-06-11 Thread Brett Cannon
So I don't think python-dev is the best place to be asking this. For type-specific questions you probably want the typing-sig mailing list. For generic discussions you probably want python-list. (Based on how type-specific your question is I'm going to assume typing-sig might be the best place.)

[Python-Dev] Re: Expected stability of PyCode_New() and types.CodeType() signatures

2019-06-12 Thread Brett Cannon
Victor Stinner wrote: > Update. > > Le ven. 31 mai 2019 à 10:49, Petr Viktorin > PEP 570 (Positional-Only Parameters) changed the > > signatures of > > PyCode_New() and types.CodeType(), adding a new argument for "posargcount". > > > Pablo proposed a PR to revert PyCode_New() API to Python 3.

[Python-Dev] Re: Expected stability of PyCode_New() and types.CodeType() signatures

2019-06-12 Thread Brett Cannon
Petr Viktorin wrote: > On 6/12/19 7:40 AM, Stefan Behnel wrote: > > Victor Stinner schrieb am 12.06.19 um 00:09: > > So yeah, the PyCode_New() change is very annoying > > in practical, since > > every single project using Cython requires a new release in practice. > > I think Cython's deal

[Python-Dev] Re: Using Generic Type Constructors at Runtime

2019-06-12 Thread Brett Cannon
Yeah, you're kind of in an odd spot with that. :) You could try python-list. ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Mes

[Python-Dev] Re: bug(?) - unexpected frames being skipped in extract_stack with closures

2019-06-25 Thread Brett Cannon
If you believe this is a bug then please file an issue at bugs.python.org so it isn't lost. ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev

[Python-Dev] Re: bug(?) - unexpected frames being skipped in extract_stack with closures

2019-06-25 Thread Brett Cannon
If you believe this is a bug then please open an issue at bugs.python.org so we don't lose track of it. On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 11:09 AM Ed Peschko wrote: > Steven, > > Yes and I posted to python-dev for a reason - I'm almost positive that > this is a bug - or at least an inconsistency - in how

[Python-Dev] Re: Building Standalone Python Applications with PyOxidizer

2019-06-25 Thread Brett Cannon
Day-to-day packaging stuff seems to have migrated from distutils-sig maililng list to https://discuss.python.org/c/packaging. And congrats on the release! ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le

[Python-Dev] Sponsoring Python development via the PSF

2019-06-25 Thread Brett Cannon
We now have https://www.python.org/psf/donations/python-dev/ for anyone to make donations via the PSF for directly supporting Python development (and we have the Sponsor button at https://github.com/python/cpython pointing to this link). ___ Python-Dev ma

[Python-Dev] Re: Sponsoring Python development via the PSF

2019-06-25 Thread Brett Cannon
ing to donate money for ages but wanted to make sure it was helping Python's development. Well, this is their chance to prove they actually meant it. ;) > Victor > Le lundi 24 juin 2019, Brett Cannon br...@python.org... > a écrit : > > We now have https://www.python.org/psf/don

[Python-Dev] Re: strip behavior provides inconsistent results with certain strings

2019-06-27 Thread Brett Cannon
My guess is that without Guido to just ask this will have to go to a PEP as it changes a built-in. ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/pyt

[Python-Dev] Re: Sponsoring Python development via the PSF

2019-06-27 Thread Brett Cannon
Discussing whether the PSF should accept cryptocurrency is a bit off-topic for python-dev. ;) ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-d

[Python-Dev] Re: strip behavior provides inconsistent results with certain strings

2019-06-28 Thread Brett Cannon
Glenn Linderman wrote: > On 6/27/2019 3:09 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > My guess is that without Guido to just ask this will > > have to go to a PEP as it changes a built-in. > > How does adding two new methods change a built-in? > > Now if an extra parameter were add

[Python-Dev] Re: Change SystemError to NOT inherit from Exception

2019-07-02 Thread Brett Cannon
There's two issues with this idea. One, backwards-compatibility, especially since the only good way to handle this would be to modify the exception-handling code to recognize this specific case during deprecation. But two, this would be a semantic shift of what classes directly inherit from `B

[Python-Dev] Re: Annoying user on GitHub

2019-07-02 Thread Brett Cannon
GitHub actually provides a bot for this: https://probot.github.io/apps/lock/ . If people want to turn this one we can discuss it at https://github.com/python/core-workflow/. ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an ema

[Python-Dev] Re: Change SystemError to NOT inherit from Exception

2019-07-04 Thread Brett Cannon
Jeroen Demeyer wrote: > On 2019-07-02 23:29, Brett Cannon wrote: > > But two, this would be a semantic shift of what > > classes directly inherit from BaseException. > > It depends how you interpret that. I always interpreted classes > inheriting directly from BaseExceptio

[Python-Dev] Re: Removing dead bytecode vs reporting syntax errors

2019-07-08 Thread Brett Cannon
Hopefully Pablo's proposed solution works. If it doesn't, could this one optimization be left in the peephole optimizer at bytecode level? Otherwise is another solution to follow through with https://discuss.python.org/t/switch-pythons-parsing-tech-to-something-more-powerful-than-ll-1/379 and s

[Python-Dev] Re: [Possibly off-topic] Python-Announce floods and delays

2019-07-08 Thread Brett Cannon
Fred Drake wrote: > On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 3:59 PM Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org... wrote: > > I’m not a super active moderator, but I do have to > > say that it’s so much > > easier to clear the queue now that the list is on Mailman 3. That said, > > it still takes active participation in order t

[Python-Dev] Re: What is a public API?

2019-07-16 Thread Brett Cannon
Raymond Hettinger wrote: > > On Jul 13, 2019, at 1:56 PM, Serhiy Storchaka storch...@gmail.com... wrote: > > Could we strictly define what is considered a public module interface in > > Python? > > The RealDefinition™ is that whatever we include in the docs is public, > > otherwise > not. > Beyon

[Python-Dev] Re: Long-term deprecation policy

2019-07-16 Thread Brett Cannon
Jeroen Demeyer wrote: > I have seen multiple discussions where somebody wants to deprecate a > useless function but somebody else complains that we cannot do that > because the function in question cannot be removed (because of backwards > compatibility). See https://bugs.python.org/issue29548..

[Python-Dev] Re: Long-term deprecation policy

2019-07-17 Thread Brett Cannon
Jeroen Demeyer wrote: > On 2019-07-17 02:34, Brett Cannon wrote: > > I prefer removal for ease of maintenance (people > > always want to update code even if it's deprecated), and to help make sure > > people who > > don't read the docs but discover so

[Python-Dev] Re: What is a public API?

2019-07-22 Thread Brett Cannon
Kyle Stanley wrote: > Serhiy Storchaka wrote: > > Either we establish the rule that all non-public > > names must be > > underscored, and do mass renaming through the whole stdlib. Or allow to > > use non-underscored names for internal things and leave the sources in > > Personally, I would be th

[Python-Dev] Re: What is a public API?

2019-07-24 Thread Brett Cannon
Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Jul 23, 2019, at 12:02, Steve Dower steve.do...@python.org wrote: > > Even if the performance impact is zero, commits that > > span the entire codebase for not-very-impactful changes have a negative > > impact on > > readability (for example, someone will suddenly become r

[Python-Dev] Re: Comparing dict.values()

2019-07-24 Thread Brett Cannon
Serhiy Storchaka wrote: > 23.07.19 23:59, Kristian Klette пише: > > During the sprints after EuroPython, I made an > > attempt at adding support for > > comparing the results from .values() of two dicts. > > Currently the following works as expected: > > d = {'a': 1234} > > > > d.keys() == d.keys(

[Python-Dev] Re: Comparing dict.values()

2019-07-25 Thread Brett Cannon
Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 05:30:19PM -0000, Brett Cannon wrote: > > When I saw this I thought, "it should be like > > set(d1.values()) == > > set(d2.values())", but has been pointed out there's no guarantee that > > a

[Python-Dev] Re: Is "%zd" format is portable now?

2019-08-02 Thread Brett Cannon
If it's in MSVC as used to compile Python, gcc, and clang I think that's enough coverage by PEP 7 standards: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0007/#c-dialect. ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python

[Python-Dev] Re: What to do about invalid escape sequences

2019-08-06 Thread Brett Cannon
Paul Moore wrote: > On Tue, 6 Aug 2019 at 17:39, Matt Billenstein m...@vazor.com wrote: > > > > On Mon, Aug 05, 2019 at 04:22:50AM -, > > raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote: > > This once seemed like a reasonable and innocuous > > idea to me; however, I've > > been using the 3.8 beta heavily for

[Python-Dev] Re: Can someone please finish merging GH-13482?

2019-08-07 Thread Brett Cannon
We probably need to update https://devguide.python.org/committing/ to have a step-by-step list of how to make a merge works and how to handle backports instead of the wall of text that we have. (It's already outdated anyway, e.g. `Misc/ACKS` really isn't important as git itself records the autho

[Python-Dev] Re: Remove module's __version__ attributes in the stdlib

2020-10-16 Thread Brett Cannon
eve > > > On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 5:28 AM Karthikeyan wrote: > >> On Fri, Oct 16, 2020, 12:45 AM Serhiy Storchaka >> wrote: >> >>> 14.10.20 20:56, Brett Cannon пише: >>> > I think if the project is not maintained externally and thus synced >>&g

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 11: Drop support for AIX releases without dlopen

2020-10-19 Thread Brett Cannon
On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 2:52 PM Kevin Adler wrote: > Interesting. Given that, shouldn't PEP 11 be updated with that change? > Seems to me that PEP 11 only documents platforms with *official support*, > so is AIX officially supported? The comment in the issue would indicate it > is not officially

[Python-Dev] Re: Ideas for improving the contribution experience

2020-10-19 Thread Brett Cannon
I think the other way to help is to really lean into automation so reviewing is even lighterweight than it is now. Now this can be as simple as to remind people when they need to regenerate a file like 'configure' via a status check, simply telling people when their PR failed a status check, or go

[Python-Dev] Re: Ideas for improving the contribution experience

2020-10-19 Thread Brett Cannon
On Mon., Oct. 19, 2020, 12:33 Tal Einat, wrote: > On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 9:24 PM Brett Cannon wrote: > >> I think the other way to help is to really lean into automation so >> reviewing is even lighterweight than it is now. Now this can be as simple >> as to remind

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 11: Drop support for AIX releases without dlopen

2020-10-19 Thread Brett Cannon
On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 2:06 PM Kevin Adler wrote: > Brett Cannon wrote: > > > AIX is not officially supported. We have tried to be helpful and > add/remove > > things over the years related to AIX (we used to have an external > > contributor who actively tried to

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 11: Drop support for AIX releases without dlopen

2020-10-20 Thread Brett Cannon
On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 4:43 PM Kevin Adler wrote: > Brett Cannon wrote: > > > Updated how? AIX is not mentioned in that PEP anywhere, so I'm not > quite > > sure what update you're suggesting. > > I'm referring to > https://www.python.org/dev/pep

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 11: Drop support for AIX releases without dlopen

2020-10-21 Thread Brett Cannon
On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 11:10 AM Kevin Adler wrote: > Brett Cannon wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 4:43 PM Kevin Adler kad...@linux.vnet.ibm.com > > wrote: > > > Should this list be updated to mention that AIX 5.3 and below are no > > > longer supported? >

[Python-Dev] Re: Drop Solaris, OpenSolaris, Illumos and OpenIndiana support in Python

2020-10-30 Thread Brett Cannon
On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 6:37 AM Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote: > >Two volunteer core developers and at least one buildbot would help a > > lot to ensure that Python is working on Solaris for real, and reduce > > the number of open Solaris issues. If it happens, I'm perfectly fine > > with keeping S

[Python-Dev] Re: Pattern matching reborn: PEP 622 is dead, long live PEP 634, 635, 636

2020-11-02 Thread Brett Cannon
On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 6:39 PM Tin Tvrtković wrote: > A small update on this, since I've been playing with it. > > I'm trying to implement a websocket proxy, since it's an example of a toy > project that needs to juggle two long-lived asyncio connections at once. > I'm using Starlette/Uvicorn fo

[Python-Dev] Re: Who is target reader of tutorial?

2020-11-05 Thread Brett Cannon
A documentation WG is going to be formed which will be in a better position to answer this, so until that WG is started I think we should keep the tutorial aimed towards beginners. On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 1:13 AM Inada Naoki wrote: > Hi, all. > > Since "How To" guide is not organized well, it is

[Python-Dev] Re: My thoughts on Pattern Matching.

2020-11-10 Thread Brett Cannon
On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 10:40 PM Tobias Kohn wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > Thank you very much for your carefully worded and thoughtful email. I > feel, however, that many of your concerns are based on an idealised > picture of a future Python language that will never actually > materialise. > > As I u

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 642 v2: Explicit constraint patterns *without* question marks in the syntax

2020-11-13 Thread Brett Cannon
On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 11:41 PM Paul Sokolovsky wrote: > Hello, > > On Thu, 12 Nov 2020 12:51:19 -0800 > Guido van Rossum wrote: > > > I have a meta-observation. Clearly there are too many cooks here. The > > same suggestions keep getting brought up. We will never converge on a > > design this

[Python-Dev] Re: [python-committers] Re: Steering Council Election Timeline for 2021 term

2020-11-16 Thread Brett Cannon
Ernest closed the nominations and we ended up with 10 nominees! Thanks to everyone who stepped forward to serve on the SC. I would like to encourage people to take the time to read everyone's nomination posts as stances on a wide variety of topics ranging from pattern matching to the Code of Condu

[Python-Dev] Re: Questions about about the DLS 2020

2020-11-17 Thread Brett Cannon
On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 9:03 AM Tobias Kohn wrote: > Hi Mark, > > Thank you for your interest and the questions. > > > 1. This really comes down to how you look at it, or how you define > pattern matching. The issue here is that the concept of pattern matching > has grown into a large and somew

[Python-Dev] Re: Questions about about the DLS 2020

2020-11-18 Thread Brett Cannon
pattern matching later was more to comment on the fact that the languages that use "_" for a wildcard pattern did it from early on, not later on; it had nothing to do with the proposal proposing pattern matching late in Python's history. > > Kind regards, > Tobias >

[Python-Dev] Re: Why does "except Ex as x" not restore the previous value of x?

2020-11-18 Thread Brett Cannon
On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 10:16 PM Greg Ewing wrote: > On 18/11/20 4:36 pm, Larry Hastings wrote: > > > > But, > > the thinking went, you'd never want to examine the last value from a > > list generator, so it was more convenient if it behaved as if it had its > > own scope. > > List comprehensions

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 642: Constraint Pattern Syntax for Structural Pattern Matching

2020-11-18 Thread Brett Cannon
On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:25 AM Robin Becker wrote: > Is there a bestiary of examples for the current pattern matching > proposal(s)? > > It seems I don't have a good handle on how one matches simple tests like > callability, Doable using protocols. > function signatures, I don't think that

[Python-Dev] Re: How Cpython repository has a pre-commit hook ? (as in PEP8)

2020-11-19 Thread Brett Cannon
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 10:47 AM Nilo César Teixeira < nilo.teixe...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello, > > I'm not a Python contributor but I have a question which (I believe) can > be answered here, so I've subscribed. > > The question is at stackoverflow: > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/64912716/

[Python-Dev] Re: The semantics of pattern matching for Python

2020-11-19 Thread Brett Cannon
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 5:16 AM Steve Holden wrote: > On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 7:04 PM Daniel Moisset > wrote: > >> [sorry for the duplicate, meant to reply-all] >> >> Thank you for this approach, I find it really helpful to put the >> conversation in these terms (semantics and guiding principles

[Python-Dev] Re: Distro packagers: PEP 615 and the tzdata dependency

2020-11-24 Thread Brett Cannon
If enough people were interested we could create a "Distributors" category on discuss.python.org. On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 9:08 AM Tianon Gravi wrote: > > I'd love to have an easy way to keep them in the loop. > > I'm one of the maintainers on https://github.com/docker-library/python > (which is

[Python-Dev] Re: Thanks for the Dev Guide

2020-11-26 Thread Brett Cannon
: > > The dev guide is a community project, like all of Python. But IIRC the > person who drove it and did I think most of the heavy lifting on it was > Brett Cannon. > > And yes, it *is* excellent, isn't it :D > > > */arry* > > On 11/26/20 11:28 AM, Richard L

[Python-Dev] Re: Distro packagers: PEP 615 and the tzdata dependency

2020-11-28 Thread Brett Cannon
On 11/24/20 7:50 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > If enough people were interested we could create a "Distributors" > > category on discuss.python.org <http://discuss.python.org>. > > I'd join :) > > > > > On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 9:08 AM Tianon Gravi

[Python-Dev] Re: Distro packagers: PEP 615 and the tzdata dependency

2020-11-30 Thread Brett Cannon
On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 8:54 AM Miro Hrončok wrote: > On 11/28/20 9:30 PM, Paul Ganssle wrote: > > Considering the people involved and the nature of the list, I suspect > that > > adding a new @python.org mailing list would be better than discourse. > In my > > experience, it's very difficult to

[Python-Dev] SC 2020 recommendation for PEP 634

2020-12-07 Thread Brett Cannon
After much deliberation, the 2020 SC will be making a recommendation to the 2021 SC to accept PEP 634 (although this was not a unanimous decision). This is in no way a binding recommendation to the 2021 SC (even if a majority of current council members get re-elected), but we felt we should pass on

[Python-Dev] Re: macOS issues with 3.8.7rc1

2020-12-09 Thread Brett Cannon
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 10:16 AM Gregory P. Smith wrote: > > > As a meta question: Is there a good reason to support binaries running on > macOS earlier than ~ $latest_version-1? > > Aren't systems running those old releases rather than upgrading > unsupported by Apple, never to be patched, and th

[Python-Dev] Re: NEWS, changelog, and blurb -- a teaching moment

2020-12-10 Thread Brett Cannon
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 7:38 PM Larry Hastings wrote: > On 12/9/20 5:21 PM, Ethan Furman wrote: > > On 12/9/20 5:01 PM, Larry Hastings wrote: > > > "Misc/NEWS" is no longer checked in, it's generated on demand using > "blurb merge". > > So if I understand correctly, blurb makes NEWS, but `whatsnew

[Python-Dev] Re: Python package funding through command-line

2020-12-17 Thread Brett Cannon
This mailing list is for the development of Python. Pip development is primarily discussed at https://discuss.python.org/c/packaging/14. But I would also check their issue tracker as I believe they already have an issue open about this (I think it's called `pip thanks`). On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 8:

[Python-Dev] Re: unittest of sequence equality

2020-12-22 Thread Brett Cannon
On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 10:54 AM Alan G. Isaac wrote: > The following test fails because because `seq1 == seq2` returns a > (boolean) NumPy array > whenever either seq is a NumPy array. > > import unittest > import numpy as np > unittest.TestCase().assertSequenceEqual([1.,2.,3.], >

[Python-Dev] Re: Let's Fix Class Annotations -- And Maybe Annotations Generally

2021-01-11 Thread Brett Cannon
On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 9:23 AM Larry Hastings wrote: > [SNIP - background info] > > > If I could wave my magic wand and do whatever I wanted, I'd change the > semantics for __annotations__ to the following: > > * Functions, classes, and modules always have an __annotations__ member > set. > * "d

[Python-Dev] Re: Let's Fix Class Annotations -- And Maybe Annotations Generally

2021-01-12 Thread Brett Cannon
On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 5:57 PM Larry Hastings wrote: > > On 1/11/21 5:05 PM, Greg Ewing wrote: > > On 12/01/21 6:22 am, Larry Hastings wrote: > > * The language will set __annotations__ to a dict if the object has > >annotations, or None if it has no annotations. > > > That sounds inconveni

[Python-Dev] Re: 3.10 change (?) for __bool__

2021-01-12 Thread Brett Cannon
On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 9:51 AM Chris Angelico wrote: > On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 4:24 AM Richard Damon > wrote: > > > > On 1/12/21 10:53 AM, Mark Shannon wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > Should the optimizer eliminate tests that it can prove have no effect > > > on the control flow of the pr

[Python-Dev] Re: Let's Fix Class Annotations -- And Maybe Annotations Generally

2021-01-12 Thread Brett Cannon
On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 6:31 PM Larry Hastings wrote: > > On 1/12/21 5:28 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > The other thing to keep in mind is we are talking about every module, > class, and function getting 64 bytes ... which I bet isn't that much. > > Actually it

[Python-Dev] Re: Bumping minimum Sphinx version to 3.2 for cpython 3.10?

2021-01-13 Thread Brett Cannon
On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 7:25 AM Serhiy Storchaka wrote: > 12.01.21 22:38, Julien Palard via Python-Dev пише: > > During the development of cpython 3.10, Sphinx was bumped to 3.2.1. > > > > Problem is Sphinx 3 have some incompatibilities with Sphinx 2, some that > > we could work around, some are

[Python-Dev] The SC is accepting PEP 632: deprecating distutils

2021-01-21 Thread Brett Cannon
On behalf of the SC, I'm happy to announce that we have chosen to accept PEP 632. Congrats, Steve, and thanks for the work on the PEP! I'll let Steve outline what the next steps are for implementing the PEP. ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@pyth

[Python-Dev] Re: pathlib.Path: inconsistent symlink_to() and link_to()

2021-01-22 Thread Brett Cannon
I'm not well versed > in mailing list etiquette. > Not a problem! Sometimes it's just called for, and you kept the old emails quoted in your reply which helps. -Brett > > Best, > > Barney > > [0] https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/18909#discussion_r39241615

[Python-Dev] Re: New sys.module_names attribute in Python 3.10: list of all stdlib modules

2021-01-26 Thread Brett Cannon
On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 1:26 AM Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jan 2021 10:36:10 +1100 > Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 06:17:09PM +0100, Victor Stinner wrote: > > > Hi Bernat, > > > > > > "stdlib_module_names" was my first idea but it looks too long, so I > > > chose "mo

[Python-Dev] Re: Why aren't we allowing the use of C11?

2021-01-28 Thread Brett Cannon
On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 8:31 AM Mark Shannon wrote: > Hi everyone, > > PEP 7 says that C code should conform to C89 with a subset of C99 allowed. > It's 2021 and all the major compilers support C11 (ignoring the optional > parts). > > C11 has support for thread locals, static asserts, and anonymo

[Python-Dev] Re: Signature discrepancies between documentation and implementation

2021-02-09 Thread Brett Cannon
On Tue., Feb. 9, 2021, 12:20 Serhiy Storchaka, wrote: > 09.02.21 12:22, Erlend Aasland пише: > > What's the recommended approach with issues like > https://bugs.python.org/issue43094? Change the docs or the > implementation? I did a quick search on bpo, but could not find similar > past issues. >

[Python-Dev] Re: Python 0.9.1

2021-02-17 Thread Brett Cannon
If we can get a clean copy of the original sources I think we should put them up under the Python org on GitHub for posterity. On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 6:10 AM Skip Montanaro wrote: > This is getting a bit more off-topic for python-dev than I'd like. I > will make a couple comments though, then h

[Python-Dev] Re: Security releases of CPython

2021-02-19 Thread Brett Cannon
On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 2:16 AM Michał Górny wrote: > On Thu, 2021-02-11 at 23:24 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote: > > On 2/11/2021 3:23 PM, Michał Górny wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > I'm the primary maintainer of CPython packages in Gentoo. I would like > > > to discuss possible improvement to the re

[Python-Dev] Re: Clarification on the removal of generator-based coroutines in 3.10

2021-02-19 Thread Brett Cannon
On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 9:04 PM Guido van Rossum wrote: > On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 8:23 PM Luciano Ramalho > wrote: > >> Thanks for your reply, Guido. >> >> On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 12:07 AM Guido van Rossum >> wrote: >> > Reading the doc section you link to, it's pretty clear that >> `@asyncio.c

[Python-Dev] Re: Security releases of CPython

2021-02-19 Thread Brett Cannon
On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 3:10 PM Stestagg wrote: > > > On Fri, 19 Feb 2021 at 22:50, Christian Heimes > wrote: > >> On 19/02/2021 23.22, Stestagg wrote: >> > The thing that stood out from this conversation, for me, is: Releases >> > are too hard, and there’s a risk of not having enough volunteers

[Python-Dev] Anyone interested in leading a sprint at PyCascades tomorrow?

2021-02-20 Thread Brett Cannon
It's short notice, but PyCascades is hosting sprints on Sunday, Feb. 21 from 09:00 - 12:30 PST tomorrow and the organizers wanted to see if anyone happened to be up for leading or helping out anyone who wants to sprint on CPython. https://2021.pycascades.com/program/sprints/ __

[Python-Dev] Re: Move support of legacy platforms/architectures outside Python

2021-02-22 Thread Brett Cannon
On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 12:28 PM Gregory P. Smith wrote: > > On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 10:15 AM Christian Heimes > wrote: > >> On 21/02/2021 13.47, glaub...@debian.org wrote: >> > Rust doesn't keep any user from building Rust for Tier 2 or Tier 3 >> platforms. There is no separate configure guard.

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 637 - Support for indexing with keyword arguments: request for feedback for SC submission

2021-02-25 Thread Brett Cannon
On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 8:46 AM Thor Whalen wrote: > Finally! One of my top python wishes! > > Where can I vote? > There is no explicit voting, but thanks for sharing your opinion! > > How can I get my hands on a back port? > Probably can't since it will be new to 3.10 if the PEP gets accepte

[Python-Dev] Re: [Steering-council] Re: PEP 651, Robust Stack Overflow Handling, Rejection notice

2021-03-05 Thread Brett Cannon
Speaking for myself ... On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 7:04 AM Mark Shannon wrote: > Hi, > > Thanks for taking the time to consider the PEP. > > Although the PEP was rejected, I still believe that the safety > guarantees in PEP 651 are worth adding to Python in the future. > > To do that (maybe for 3.11

[Python-Dev] Re: Reviving PEP 473

2021-03-15 Thread Brett Cannon
Since tweaking the built-in exceptions is so far-reaching, probably at least discussing each proposed change (one at a time, not 5 at once) would be the minimum. Otherwise you could do a PEP, but once again you're looking at a PEP per exception. I think it's really going to come down to how big of

[Python-Dev] Re: pth file encoding

2021-03-16 Thread Brett Cannon
On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 7:53 PM Inada Naoki wrote: > Hi, all. > > I found .pth file is decoded by the default (i.e. locale-specific) > encoding. > > https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/0269ce87c9347542c54a653dd78b9f60bb9fa822/Lib/site.py#L173 > > pth files contain: > > * import statements > *

[Python-Dev] Re: aiter/anext review request

2021-03-19 Thread Brett Cannon
t; Josh >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 11:29 AM Luciano Ramalho >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for working on this, Joshua. I agree 100% with Jelle Zijlstra >>>> in the issue tracker: >>>> >>>> Do these r

[Python-Dev] Re: Merge Request Review Reminder

2021-03-19 Thread Brett Cannon
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 9:29 AM Faisal Mahmood wrote: > Hello, > > Following my previous e-mail last month, thank you for responding. I > almost immediately got two reviewers who posted helpful comments on my PR > which I believe have all been resolved now. > > Today, I got a notification to say

[Python-Dev] Re: Alternative syntax for Python's lambda

2021-03-26 Thread Brett Cannon
That discussion has not even made it here yet; it seems to still only be on python-ideas and thus that's probably the best place to leave a comment on the subject (for now). On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 9:55 PM Dan Stromberg wrote: > > Please see https://lwn.net/Articles/847960/ > > :) > > On Thu, Ma

[Python-Dev] Re: Where and how can I contribute?

2021-03-26 Thread Brett Cannon
devguide.python.org has some guidelines on how to find easy issues to work on. You can also ask for help on core-mentors...@python.org. On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:32 AM Marco Sulla wrote: > I would contribute to the project in my spare time. Can someone point > me to some easy task? I know C and

[Python-Dev] Re: Weird io.OpenWrapper hack to use a function as method

2021-03-31 Thread Brett Cannon
On Wed., Mar. 31, 2021, 18:56 Inada Naoki, wrote: > Do we need _pyio at all? > Does PyPy or any other Python implementation use it? > https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0399/ would suggest rolling back Python support is something to avoid. > On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 9:36 PM Victor Stinner > w

[Python-Dev] Re: How to attract developer attention to issue tracker items?

2021-04-07 Thread Brett Cannon
On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 11:22 PM wrote: > Hi developers, > > What should / shouldn't I do to attract any python developer response to > issue tracker items? I am unsure of the proper procedure to follow so I am > asking here first. > What you're doing here is probably your best bet. Unfortunatel

[Python-Dev] Re: When we remove 'U' mode of open()?

2021-04-07 Thread Brett Cannon
On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 10:01 AM Serhiy Storchaka wrote: > 07.04.21 19:13, Victor Stinner пише: > > Hi Inada-san, > > > > I'm +0 on removing again the flag, but I would prefer to not endorse > > the responsibility. I am already responsible for enough incompatible > > changes in Python 3.10 :-D > >

[Python-Dev] Re: Typing syntax and ecosystem

2021-04-12 Thread Brett Cannon
On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 3:01 AM Hugh Fisher wrote: > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 13:31:12 -0700 > > From: Barry Warsaw > > Subject: [Python-Dev] Re: PEP 647 Accepted > > > > > This is something the SC has been musing about, but as it’s not a fully > formed idea, I’m a little hesitant

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