Re: [Pan-users] Re: OT: freedomware vs... Was: Building Pan on Windows?

2010-03-10 Thread Rob
On Wednesday 10 March 2010 06:28 pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > We wouldn't be having this argument about "give it away for free" if it > were about making television programs. For well over half a century, > people have made television programs and given them away for free. We have that model in s

[Pan-users] Re: WAAAY OT: freedomware vs... Was: Building Panon Windows?

2010-03-10 Thread Duncan
Graham Todd posted on Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:04:38 + as excerpted: > There IS nothing beyond the life we see and live now, and there's no > need to create supernatural fairy stories to explain the unexplainable. Thanks, but I don't quite see how that addresses the question I asked (which isn't

[Pan-users] Re: WAAAY OT: freedomware vs... Was: Building Panon Windows?

2010-03-10 Thread Duncan
Alan Meyer posted on Tue, 09 Mar 2010 21:04:55 -0800 as excerpted: > I can't speak for anyone else since, not being a believer myself, it's > awkward for me to say what the purpose of God and religion would be if I > were to believe in God and religion but not believe in an afterlife or > an immor

Re: [Pan-users] Re: OT: freedomware vs... Was: Building Pan on Windows?

2010-03-10 Thread Joe Zeff
On 03/10/2010 03:29 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 06:08:42 am Joe Zeff wrote: And no, I don't have any "reading comprehension" issues. I was responding to the spirit of your comments, not the words themselves. You clearly have issues with the idea of the profit motive By "cl

Re: [Pan-users] Re: OT: freedomware vs... Was: Building Pan on Windows?

2010-03-10 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 06:08:42 am Joe Zeff wrote: > And no, I don't have any "reading comprehension" issues. I was > responding to the spirit of your comments, not the words themselves. > You clearly have issues with the idea of the profit motive By "clearly" you mean in your own fevered imaginati

Re: [Pan-users] Re: OT: freedomware vs... Was: Building Pan on Windows?

2010-03-10 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 07:24:43 am Rob wrote: > On Wednesday 10 March 2010 01:34 pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > Google hasn't just released the Go programming language as free, > > open source software out of charity, > > If Google were primarily known for Go, you might have a point, but > Google has

Re: [Pan-users] Re: OT: freedomware vs... Was: Building Pan on Windows?

2010-03-10 Thread Rob
On Wednesday 10 March 2010 01:34 pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Google hasn't just released the Go programming language as free, open > source software out of charity, If Google were primarily known for Go, you might have a point, but Google has the specific policy of encouraging their employees t

Re: [Pan-users] Re: OT: freedomware vs... Was: Building Pan on Windows?

2010-03-10 Thread Joe Zeff
On 03/10/2010 10:42 AM, Rob wrote: While it may be that most of the lines of code written in the world will never be free, most of it also has free-as-in-freedom alternatives. Our choice as free software enthusiasts is to choose the free alternatives and, as you suggest, skip the proprietary stu

Re: [Pan-users] Re: OT: freedomware vs... Was: Building Pan on Windows?

2010-03-10 Thread Joe Zeff
On 03/10/2010 10:34 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Society has made a choice to create the legal fiction of "copyright" out of a belief that this will promote the useful arts and sciences. And, speaking as a writer (Six time Nanowrimo winner, none published. Yet.) I'm glad they have. Writing nove

Re: [Pan-users] Re: OT: freedomware vs... Was: Building Pan on Windows?

2010-03-10 Thread Rob
On Wednesday 10 March 2010 12:13 pm, Joe Zeff wrote: > I support it, but I, at least, also accept that most software will never > be free, and that software companies have the right to keep their code > proprietary if that's what they want. If you don't like it, don't do > business with them, but

Re: [Pan-users] Re: OT: freedomware vs... Was: Building Pan on Windows?

2010-03-10 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 04:13:37 am Joe Zeff wrote: > On 03/10/2010 06:12 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > I could continue, but I trust I've made > > my point. > > Yes, you have: you can make a living while giving away your code if > *and only if* you have an employer who will support you while you do >

Re: [Pan-users] Re: OT: freedomware vs... Was: Building Pan on Windows?

2010-03-10 Thread Joe Zeff
On 03/10/2010 06:12 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: I could continue, but I trust I've made my point. Yes, you have: you can make a living while giving away your code if *and only if* you have an employer who will support you while you do it. You seem to believe that there is One True Way for sof

Re: [Pan-users] Re: OT: freedomware vs... Was: Building Pan on Windows?

2010-03-10 Thread Leslie Newell
Leslie asked for a business model where he can make a living while still releasing code as open source. Red Hat do it. Canonical does it. Sun does it, although who knows what will happen now that they've been bought out by Oracle. Even ID Software does it (although they release their games as

Re: [Pan-users] Re: OT: freedomware vs... Was: Building Pan on Windows?

2010-03-10 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 04:21:32 pm Alan Meyer wrote: > Steven D'Aprano > > > On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:25:06 am Leslie Newell wrote: > > ... > > > > > My challenge to you is to come up with a business model where > > > I can both eat and make my code open source. > > > > It works for Eric Raymond, Guido

Re: [Pan-users] Re: WAAAY OT: freedomware vs... Was: Building Panon Windows?

2010-03-10 Thread Graham Todd
On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 23:41:17 + (UTC) Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> uttered these words: > what's the > point if there's nothing beyond the life we see and live now? > > If someone wishes to enlighten me... [snipped] We die, our bodies rot, and we then provide humus for plants to grow

Re: [Pan-users] Re: OT: freedomware vs... Was: Building Pan on Windows?

2010-03-10 Thread Leslie Newell
You mean something like the open standard OpenDocument used by OpenOffice, Abiword, WordPerfect, KOffice, Google Docs and many others? Find me a standard that handles the data I need to use and I'll use it. It works for Eric Raymond, Guido van Rossum, Richard Stallman, and hundreds of oth