ose who actually know what
> they are doing.
I agree, I would love to see any advancement on this.
Mike
ion on this topic, but no examples).
Mike
> I can give you the source to the commercial license for a product we
> did.
That would be great.
I'm new to groff, so I am only touching the surface of what it can do.
I would love to see a working source which can perform these tricks.
Kind regards,
Mike
> Almost all my exams (being a science teacher) are created using
Groff.
That sounds really interesting. If it isn't confidential, I'd love to
see a copy of your exam paper to see how it was made and how you create
two versions in the same document.
Kind regards,
Mike
does so much more than I first
imagined.
I don't know if this aligns with the goals of the contributors, but
examples of some well-designed, finished documents might attract new
users and potential contributors.
Forgive me for being bold, I am just thinking out loud.
Mike
Hello,
Not a technical question, so I apologise in advance if this is the
wrong place to post.
I'd like to know if a showcase of Groff typeset documents exists
anywhere on the internet?
Kind regards,
Mike
> Seems to work if you add:-
>
> .am pg@top
> . t*hm
> ..
That appears to have worked. Thank you for pointing that out.
Very much appreciated!
Kind regards,
Mike
nvironment: Manjaro Linux
The "working" macro file has only one change. Line 72 contains .ne 1.5i
> Studying the differences between the two and the macros and requests
> they do or don't call will likely help us to pinpoint the issue.
That would be amazing! Thank you for loo
page.
Perhaps this is by design and I am just naive to it, but I would love
to know the cause and what I could do for reliable results.
Kind regards,
Mike
On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 2:55 PM G. Branden Robinson <
g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [adding Dave to CC; seek your name below for my magical summons]
>
> At 2023-03-31T13:05:09-0700, Mike Fulton wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 8:57 AM G. Branden Robinson <
&g
a separate thread, please feel free]
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> At 2023-03-31T07:29:16-0700, Mike Fulton wrote:
> > Over the last year, we have been working hard in the z/OS Open Tools
> > community (https://zosopentools.github.io/meta/#/) to not only port
> > the fundamenta
m not subscribed yet but I can - is that a better way to respond?
thanks, mike
On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 8:57 AM G. Branden Robinson <
g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [let me know if you're subscribed to the list or if you'd prefer not to
> be CCed]
>
> [also, if you
ed a similar question in the
libiconv channel since honestly I'm not sure the best way to fix this). In
parallel, I think I need to understand how I
could change the way I build man so that it operates in UTF-8 mode.
Thanks, Mike
On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 6:55 AM G. Branden Robinson &l
o:/Users/fult...@ca.ibm.com/Documents/Development/mine/share/groff/1.22.4/tmac/\:tty\-char.tmac>
```
Being generated in the ./src/roff/nroff/nroff.1 file
Thanks, Mike
o:/Users/fult...@ca.ibm.com/Documents/Development/mine/share/groff/1.22.4/tmac/\:tty\-char.tmac>
```
Being generated in the ./src/roff/nroff/nroff.1 file
Thanks, Mike
Thanks, Mike
:
http://man.cat-v.org/unix-6th/1/diff
I agree that a LIMITATION is not a BUG, but sometimes a BUG is more severe than
an LIMITATION. If so, then it belongs in the man page.
Mike Bianchi
On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 10:18:37AM +0100, Ralph
start to talk about
text processing and the question of how the next AWK book will be written.
Naturally troff(1) and groff(1) come up.
That part of the conversation starts here:
https://youtu.be/GNyQxXw_oMQ?t=1312
--
Mike Bianchi
ect solution to the '-' controversy is to format
everything at is an ASCII expression in an ASCII font which has no
concept of '\-' .
((I come from the days when all UNIX documentation was formated using nroff.))
he domains of
UNIX Archeology and Software Preservation.
--
Mike Bianchi
mbian...@foveal.com
re I think
you might have to manually format an item is if one side-by-side table item
takes up _more_ than one page.
--
Mike Bianchi
973 822-2085
mbian...@foveal.com
went unanswered as well as a much more recent thread[2] that deals
preferably more or less automagically. I've searched the list already
page, the other on the verso page, synchronized somehow by paragraph,
bilingual text parallel by pages, as in, one language on the recto
and came
Deri,
What a nice answer!
(And this old-timer learned a few things.)
Mike
On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 04:09:13PM +, Deri wrote:
> On Thursday, 24 February 2022 14:54:51 GMT Olle L�gdahl wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> &
fferentiates the particular implementation.
But if groff was the only command you were exposed to ... growl like a dog.
--
Mike Bianchi
mbian...@foveal.com
h, PWB/MM — Programmer’s Workbench
Memorandum Macros, Bell Laboratories internal memorandum
--
Mike Bianchi
mbian...@foveal.com
someday it could take the cbi argument. Constant-Width Bold Italic
But I say again, very nice!
Welcome to the Macro Writers Guild.
Mike
On Thu, Jul 01, 2021 at 09:44:13PM +0200, John Ankarström wrote:
> Den 2021-07-01 kl. 21
I have so many documents where _all_ the groff actions are in lower case
and I don't know where to look when I need to understand the action and
syntax. Is it native groff? Or the mm macro package? Or something I wrote?
Now when writing my own macros I tend to make them start with a capit
On 17 May 12:50, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> [looping in linux-man@ because issues of user education and topics that
> fall between project/man page stools come up below]
>
> At 2021-05-16T20:29:30-0500, Dave Kemper wrote:
> > This stuff about less(1) is only tangential to groff, but it did come
r
could be written in a Python, Ruby, or something else.
It would have to be a team effort with team consensus.
Mike
On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 05:46:58AM +0200, JM Marcastel wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I would like to investigate th
omething.
Apologies if this is the wrong place to ask this.
Thanks
- Mike
t Leader
Does anyone maintain m.tmac these days?
Mike
On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 09:55:59AM -0500, Robert Goulding wrote:
> I get the same result; and then tried variants with .LT instead of .MT, and
> the signature is not produced at all!
>
> On Thu,
he characters used to delineate columns disappears in normal printing.
Mike
On Fri, Feb 05, 2021 at 11:05:58AM -0300, Bento Borges Schirmer wrote:
> Hello
>
> I'm having great joy composing little documents for some home
Color Commentary"? ;)
Mike
On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 11:40:26PM -0500, Larry Kollar wrote:
>
> G. Branden Robinson wrote:
>
> > Happy Halloween!
> >
> > Ready for something on the gory and disturbing sid
> ... what is the evidenvce
> that Mike Lesk is the author of the man(7) macros?
I asked Michael about man(7) and ms(7) ...
Subject: I did not write the "man" macros.
I did write -ms.
My best guess at the author of the "man" macros is
hat you wrote your first tutorial
> for using the antecedents of groff more than half your lifetime ago!
OK! Everyone line up in the order of their first exposure to *roff.
Mr McIlroy all the way on the right ...
--
Mike Bianchi
eatest.
Mike
On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 12:55:57AM -0400, Larry Kollar wrote:
> To be honest, I can’t believe over a fourth of my life has gone by since we
> started the
> transcription.
>
> Now, with sources where everyone can grab them,
> Isn't it sad that nothing more modern is available?
Since it is open source,
it might make sense to have a team produce a groff version?
Mike
Sent from my Adesso PCK-308UW.
On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 10:26:27AM +11
c that starts with
> something like `mso mm`.
That is the equivalent.
In the UNIX/Linux world there are many correct solutions.
Enjoy the journey!
--
Mike Bianchi
Foveal Systems
973 822-2085
mbian...@foveal.com
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com
http://www.FovealMounts.com
On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 06:07:21PM +0200, Marc Chantreux wrote:
> hello Mike,
>
> first of all: pardon my lack of culture but i don't get what "RL" means
> in this case. i suppose it's a way to say you replied intentionally to
> me and not to the mailing li
Bjarni,
Nice, tight analysis and proposed solutions. Thank you.
Mike Bianchi
On Thu, Apr 02, 2020 at 11:58:01PM +, Bjarni Ingi Gislason wrote:
snip
> 1) The missing part is information.
> Solution:
> a)
occasionally, see. I think UTF-8 encoding may be such.
--
Mike Bianchi
120
attachment:
witness.png
Mike
On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 12:32:04PM +1100, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> At 2020-03-30T19:16:56-0400, Doug McIlroy wrote:
> > Does anyone else see the following behavior?
> > Version
y ship.
See
https://youtu.be/6v6wdK2EbIQ?t=298
--
Mike Bianchi
I nominate Brian Kernighan.
Mike Bianchi
On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 12:30:21PM -0400, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
> Doug McIlroy :
> > Please excuse my antediluvian hangover.
>
> *snort*
>
> If I had to make a list of the
h a different terminal interface.
Or a dialog interface.
So my question is does any have experience with a terminal
walk-the-decision-tree interface they like?
Could it serve as a model for info2 ?
--
Mike Bianchi
at C would be greatly improved if it just added:
Strings as first-class objects
(instead of a collection of array side effects)
Hardened memory management
Hardened pointer management
--
Mike Bianchi
oth Hb and Hs.
Mike
On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 05:03:11PM +1100, Damian McGuckin wrote:
>
> When using the 'mm' macros, I try
>
> .H 1 "A Heading"
> .AL 1
> .LI
> My List
>
> under 1.18.1.4, if gives me a single s
any languages where they exist.
As to groff, et. al., they are stable enough that any translations would remain
useful, especially for those approaching them for the first time.
--
Mike Bianchi
Foveal Systems
973 822-2085
mbian...@foveal.com
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com
http://www.FovealMounts.com
> If there is interest, I'll post the script and an example.
Yes please.
Mike
On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 01:21:31PM +0200, Ulrich Lauther wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have written a small perlscript, that preproce
> .ny0
look for a macro definition:
.de ny
:
..
In the old days, no macro name was more than 2 characters so nroff/troff would
understand .ny0 to be macro ny with argument 0 .
Mike
On Sun, Mar
(unshift ") with straight and angled glyphs.
Once again, is anyone working on a UTF-8/Unicode keyboard?
I see a need coming.
--
Mike Bianchi
have the technology.
www.nkkswitches.com/nkk-smartswitch-lcd-36-x-24-pushbutton-display-enhanced-accommodate-low-voltage/
Certainly an extension keypad of programmable glyph keys would be doable!)
--
Mike Bianchi
Foveal Systems
973 822-2085
mbian...@foveal.com
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com
http://www.FovealMounts.com
rogrammers had their favorites; document writers theirs.
--
Mike Bianchi
be
changed via a personalized configuration file. Say .groff-Ttxt.rc .
Just don't go changing the definition of existing groff options such that
what was rendered yesterday is different to what rendered today.
--
Mike Bianchi
Foveal Systems
973 822-2085
mbian...@foveal.com
http://www.Aut
a credit. The same for ed .
--
Mike Bianchi
Foveal Systems
973 822-2085
mbian...@foveal.com
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com
http://www.FovealMounts.com
I asked Brian Kernighan if he had recollections and/or documents from the early
days of nroff.
Hi, Mike --
All of the roff programs originate from Jerry Saltzer's Runoff, done for
CTSS. [nt]roff was unusual in having programmable layout (the trap
mechanism
be useful. Mom macros
> really need the documentation that's in the html/pdf docs. It's
> enough for the manpage to give the entry points, IMO.
>
> Since groff_mom(7) isn't actually my baby, I'm asking for opinions
> before I go ahead.
>
> --
> Peter Schaffter
> http://www.schaffter.ca
--
Mike Bianchi
d a footnote reference to "Edition 1.22.4".
That way this could become a living document! A perpetual current resource!
--
Mike Bianchi
could add a "Tricks and Techniques" section that would
collect gems such as this one.
or
maybe add this trick to
www.gnu.org/software/groff/manual/html_node/Manipulating-Hyphenation.html
It, and many like it, deserve a better fate than &qu
appearance quickly realized the value of separating the
those two concerns.
The prevalence of What-You-See-Is-What-You-Get documentation ("... Is All You
Get": Brian Kernighan) has hidden the possibilities from the popular mind.
It is good to see the idea of computing documents being rediscovered.
--
Mike Bianchi
rnal_name] [-i n] [-o output_file] afm_file
> > map_file
> > +font_name
>
> :
> :
--
Mike Bianchi
switches in postscript output via man -Tps:
>
> man -Tps groff | sed 's:/minus:/hyphen:g' > groff.ps
>:
Hummm ...
How about a character named
asciiminusU+002D
?
--
Mike Bianchi
ki/Const_(computer_programming)
:
:
I was wrong. Those two lines _are_ identical.
The example code I lifted even illustrated that.
const int *ptrToConst; //identical to: int const *ptrToConst,
My apologies to [groff].
((more to come))
--
Mike Bianchi
here a path by which the confusions such as these can be
avoided in the design and implementation of C-like language?
--
Mike Bianchi
http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-4.4.2/gcc/Typeof.html
--
Mike Bianchi
Foveal Systems
973 822-2085
mbian...@foveal.com
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com
http://www.FovealMounts.com
in language design without really trying."
--
Mike Bianchi
Foveal Systems
973 822-2085
mbian...@foveal.com
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com
http://www.FovealMounts.com
On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 03:58:33PM -0400, Steve Izma wrote:
> When I write, I only want to think about the words ...
> and the structure of my argument ...
May I add a big Amen!
--
Mike Bianchi
the ideas
and features available in Plan 9 Troff, Heirloom Troff, and Groff.
He has an ambitious hobby :)
--
Mike Bianchi
Foveal Systems
973 822-2085
mbian...@foveal.com
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com
http://www.FovealMounts.com
e a Z macro package containing both Z_Aroff.tmac and Z_Broff.tmac
is something to be hope for.
--
Mike Bianchi
Foveal Systems
973 822-2085
mbian...@foveal.com
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com
http://www.FovealMounts.com
&chips=q:bell+system+logo,g_3:vintage
--
Mike Bianchi
System" logo.
It was a glyph in the Symbol font. And it looked like:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Bell_System_hires_1969_logo_blue.svg
Is there a way to turn that into a glyph in a groff font?
]
The special character \[$] is defined as the string "$" .
NOTE that the .char statement _requires_ that the trailing " not be present.
Mike
On Sun, Dec 03, 2017 at 08:50:04PM +0700, Stephanie Björk wrote:
> That se
Also, the piclink buttons in the lower left corner does not seem to work.
Mike
On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:04:57AM +0100, Bob Diertens wrote:
> Gpresent v2.4 is available from
> https://staff.fnwi.uva.nl/b.diertens/
AUSE
720-36 1.20
Mike
On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:04:57AM +0100, Bob Diertens wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Long overdue but finally there.
>
> Gpresent v2.4 is available from
> https://staff.fnwi.uv
On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 11:43:40AM -0400, Doug McIlroy wrote:
> The Fedora system I have access to lacks /usr/share/doc/groff, and
> in particular the wonderful tutorial /usr/share/doc/groff/pic.ps.
On Debian 8
locate pic.ps
returns
/usr/share/doc/groff-base/pic.ps.gz
--
089 09814 08943 098431 0894132 0
= = = = = = = = = =
--
Mike Bianchi
Foveal Systems
973 822-2085
mbian...@foveal.com
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com
http://www.FovealMounts.com
. The order of the checks I perform are:
BOM
UTF-8
UTF-16 (newline)
UTF-16 (null distribution)
:
:
--
Mike Bianchi
convert just
because a "better way" comes along.
Remember when the "modern" way to archive was to put everything onto
microfiche?
--
Mike Bianchi
Woops.
Never mind.
Mike
On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 12:08:29PM -0400, Mike Bianchi wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 05:00:37PM +0200, E. Hoffmann wrote:
> > Am Fri, 21 Jul 2017 16:28:04 -0400
> > schrieb
utf8 foo
?
see man 1 groff :
-k Preprocess with preconv . ...
-s Preprocess with soelim .
That way groff knows the crucial ordering, etc.
--
Mike Bianchi
complicated than
_I_ would like. Typing \(hy for hyphen would have been a heavy burden,
especially in the absence of the .char groff extension.
Probably the best solution available now is fixing any incorrect documentation
so as to speak truth.
--
Mike Bianchi
to gain support. :-)
> How to produce it is the issue.
Absolutely. I propose
wc -l
if - was \N'45' It would make sense for future generations. As a first
generation UNIX citizen it is interesting to contemplate how much longer the
man pages groff documents will be relevant.
--
Mike Bianchi
Foveal Systems
973 822-2085
mbian...@foveal.com
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com
http://www.FovealMounts.com
ages that depend on groff
for their appearance, is to edit their source code so their specifics match
the (corrected?) groff definitions.
Mike
On Tue, May 02, 2017 at 09:29:39PM -0400, Doug McIlroy wrote:
>
> Branden wrote
&
2/2/63 (311) 800‐
Bob Williams‐‐3/3/56‐(999) 555‐
Mike
On Wed, Apr 05, 2017 at 10:18:34AM -0400, T. Kurt Bond wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm trying to us
ong ago I developed the habit of putting lines consisting of only a .
wherever I wanted some white-space to help my understanding of the document
content as opposed to the formated document appearance. It sometimes makes
editing the groff input much easier.
--
Mike Bianchi
Foveal Systems
973 822-
d.pdf
or
troff-revised.pdf
Are you referring to the 1992 version by Brian Kernighan?
THAT I can find.
--
Mike Bianchi
Foveal Systems
973 822-2085
mbian...@foveal.com
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com
http://www.FovealMounts.com
the content.
So I have used [ntg]roff all these years because I can concentrate on the
content. The presentation (once I've picked and implemented a style) takes
care of itself.
I even use an nroff filter I wrote in the 1980s on my outgoing e-mail for
exactly that reason.
--
Mike
On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 04:44:40PM +0100, Carsten Kunze wrote:
> Hello Mike,
>
> what do you mean here--Damian didn't use \#?
>
> Carsten
His example was
> .H 2 "A Heading"
> .TS
> .\" some table of something
> .
uncomment the '.rm' above.
.DE
What is the real fix please?
.TS
center;
r r
l l.
.\# Table comment
right right
leftleft
.TE
\# Finish of example
Mike
On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 07:03:41PM +1100, Damian McGuckin wr
cat manual.ps | gv /dev/stdin
gv: Cannot open file /dev/stdin (No data available)
cat manual.ps | ( sleep 1; gv /dev/stdin )
gv: Cannot open file /dev/stdin (No data available)
I suspect a funny race condition involving pipes.
All my shell code using gv employ files na
d i am trying to use the ".1C" macro.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Marisa
Try changing .1C to .DS and add the line
.DE
at the bottom.
Does that get closer to what you want?
--
Mike Bianchi
" documents they once were.
Occasionally I use the hack of extracting the PostScript with pdf2ps(1)
and then use ps2pdf12(1) to turn it back into PDF.
I've no idea why it works; it is just a lazy get-around.
--
Mike Bianchi
, it would involve making the warning
within the .PGFORM dcoumentation unnecessary.
--
Mike Bianchi
agine themselves to be experts in groff _and_ the macro packages.
I am one such person, and have many sad tails to tell of my ignorance.
--
Mike Bianchi
Foveal Systems
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mbian...@foveal.com
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com
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Thanks Ralph, but I'm still hoping someone with autoconf knowledge will know
what to do.
Mike
On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 03:57:56PM +0100, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> > I know the current code uses diff -Dn
xpertise, of those tools.
I could use help, iff the suspicion is true.
Otherwise, I'll just document the lack of universality and commit what I have.
Mike
On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 12:03:48AM +0200, Bertrand Garrigues wrote:
>
e.in ,
etc.
Is there any autoconf/automake guru out there
willing to help me get this right?
Discussion can be found at
http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?44768
--
Mike Bianchi
recursively
> ├── -f ignore nonexistent files, never prompt
> └── *Remove (unlink) files matching this text pattern.
Are you aware of rm --help ?
The --help argument is very common in commands.
--
Mike Bianchi
(Commentary)
http://xkcd.com/1167/
--
Mike Bianchi
PostScript glyph name `notequal'.
>
>
> I hope this helps. Patches to improve the docs are really welcome :-)
Also:
Could a trace option be added so the path of \[u2260] interpretation
could be seen?
May a tool that shows the choices when there are "equivalent"
interpretations?
--
Mike Bianchi
is a device dependent measurement,
which is quite small, ranging from 1/75th to 1/72000th of an ... Ens.
In groff , this is half of an em.
That's what I pointed you to which happens to be contained in
info groff > groff.txt
which is what Ralph suggested.
Many roads lead to ...
--
Mike Bianchi
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