d_config() {
Yes, it's an utterly trivial problem, but it is a QA violation. Getting
a complete list is something that takes a heck of a lot longer, and I
have yet to be convinced that my time would not be better spent
elsewhere.
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer of the shiny ha
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 16:17:20 +0100 Paul de Vrieze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
| On Tuesday 28 February 2006 15:52, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > Yes, it's an utterly trivial problem, but it is a QA violation.
| > Getting a complete list is something that takes a heck of a lot
| >
| serious issues, and stop being rude to other people.
As I already said, repeatedly, doing a full QA audit takes time. That
time can be better spent auditing things that will actually get fixed.
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer of the shiny hat)
Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org
W
7;s what you're after:
SLOT="${PVR}"
Now, please apologise for insinuating that I don't have any real claims
to make. I find it extremely offensive that you're questioning my
technical ability.
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer of the shiny ha
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 16:08:05 +0100 Jakub Moc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| 28.2.2006, 15:39:40, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 10:49:13 +0100 Jakub Moc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| > wrote:
| > | No, that's not a policy document, ebuild policy is documented
|
s can't override this either. Read on in the eclass and you'll
notice that it checks that SLOT hasn't been changed to something sane.
--
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Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web : http://dev.gento
en
explained in depth in the past on various lists. If you can point out
any genuine SLOT screwups that I've missed then I'll work to get those
fixed.
| Maybe I could point you to
| http://dev.gentoo.org/~plasmaroo/devmanual//general-concepts/slotting/ ?
Uh... I know how slotting works. I w
valid from
| QA standpoint or stop now.
This is a valid issue from a QA standpoint. This is also why I'm not
going to waste my time doing a proper list -- rather than addressing
issues, they are being passed off as irrelevant or even features.
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:02:11 + Renat Lumpau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| On Tue, Feb 28, 2006 at 04:35:32PM +, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > Ebuilds can't override this either. Read on in the eclass and you'll
| > notice that it checks that SLOT hasn't been ch
Sheesh, you'll probably claim that this isn't broken next too:
if [ "${IS_UPGRADE}" = "1" ] ; then
einfo "Removing old version ${REMOVE_PKG}"
emerge -C "${REMOVE_PKG}"
fi
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer of the shiny ha
s" or "internationalisation leads to program
crashes". Yes, it's possible (in C, anyway) to screw up your buffer
routines when converting code to handle utf-8, but then it's always
possible to screw up buffer routines.
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer
e of people reading
this list by explaining something that frickin' obvious. When it's a
subtle issue I explain why it's wrong. When it isn't, I try to avoid
wasting everyone's time by making them read a huge explanation of
something they all already know.
--
Ciaran McCree
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:09:02 +0100 Jakub Moc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| 28.2.2006, 18:38:10, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > Sheesh, you'll probably claim that this isn't broken next too:
|
| > if [ "${IS_UPGRADE}" = "1" ] ; then
| >
hat can be
detected and fixed quickly.
--
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Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm
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Description: PGP signature
ost definitely on the list of "stuff that
gets fixed in any way, up to and including immediate cvs rm even if it
screws up deps for an arch" list.
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer of the shiny hat)
Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web : http://dev.gento
you say it yourself in this bug rather than letting
| other people quoting what you say.
I should note that if you are a Gentoo developer who has found my
advice helpful, you should comment on bug #114944 since certain people
are trying to turn Gentoo development into a popularity contest.
ut no moaning that it
looks weird if you do.
Unless there are any huge flaws found, I'd like this to be voted on by
the council -- looks like it'll have to wait until April's meeting to
fit in with the two weeks rule.
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer of the shiny hat)
Mail
one that works in some releases...
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;t use sane syntax, the only way
to deal with it is to check it by hand. We don't have enough developers
to do that.
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer of the shiny hat)
Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm
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Description: PGP signature
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 19:09:28 +0100 Simon Stelling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
| Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:35:34 -0600 Lance Albertson
| > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| > | QA shouldn't have to depend on the tools you use.
| >
| > Sure. Howev
-burner-2.12.3 ) dvdr? (
>>=gnome-extra/nautilus-cd-burner-2.12.3 ) hal? (
>>=gnome-base/gnome-volume-manager-1.5.4 ) >=gnome-extra/gtkhtml-3.8.2
>>=mail-client/evolution-2.4.2.1 >=gnome-extra/evolution-data-server-1.4.2.1
>>=gnome-extra/evolution-webcal-2.4.1 >=net-mi
would be to use use.mask. My reasonably educated guess is that this is
the most common kind of deliberate circumvention to avoid a repoman
error.
Unfortunately, detecting "foo? ( !arch? ( somepackage ) )" gets a whole
load of false positives. I already tried that one without success...
On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 21:29:30 +0100 Grobian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| On 02-03-2006 20:19:19 +, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 21:10:02 +0100 Paul de Vrieze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| > wrote:
| > | I'm also convinced that deliberate circumventi
ct deliberate repoman circumvention.
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Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm
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On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 16:19:58 -0500 Michael Cummings
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| On Thu, 2006-03-02 at 20:49 +, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > Now, you've heard that dropping keywords is bad. But you have a
| > clever idea, and make the dep alsa? ( !sparc? ( alsa libraries ) ).
|
you* know which GUI is the best option for gvim and why?
Heck, it's hard enough figuring out a usable set of USE flags for PHP.
If we started dieing for the three zillion or so mutually independent
GUI options in gvim7 users would never actually be able to figure out
how to install the thing..
any meaningful choice or making things easier for arch teams. You
do not get bonus points for using more USE flags.
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Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org
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version (without relying on rsync to wipe
| deleted files).
I'd really rather not. That makes writing clients a lot harder.
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ill be running in kiosk mode. No user will have the
| ability to get to a window manager and browse around
| in /usr/share/doc. They don't even know what the heck a man page is.
Then you should use INSTALL_MASK, not a USE flag.
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer of the shin
e all items matched by an Obsoletes header from the processing
| queue. Doesn't seem so tricky.
That's exactly it. It requires a client to look at and be able to
handle all other news items just to read a single item.
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer of the shiny hat)
to define
| the location of that list.
XML people: is there a way of linking attribute="" values to stuff
defined in another XML file that isn't going to make my face bleed?
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer of the shiny hat)
Mail: ciaranm at ge
On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:04:19 +0900 Chris White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
| On Monday 06 March 2006 09:58, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > XML people: is there a way of linking attribute="" values to stuff
| > defined in another XML file that isn't going to make my face bl
On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:19:47 + Ciaran McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
| Attached is the final draft.
And now, attached is the final final draft. The only change in this
version is to the behaviour of Display-If-Profile / `portageq
profile_used` -- now, an exact profile equivalence i
On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:37:09 +0100 Paul de Vrieze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
| On Monday 06 March 2006 01:19, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > That's exactly it. It requires a client to look at and be able to
| > handle all other news items just to read a single item.
|
| Who says that
rease the disk space demands for our mirrors.
|
| And you can't hard-link the files into multiple directories
| because ...?
...you have to find them first, and because there's a hard link limit
on some filesystems, and because some filesystems don't do hardlinks.
--
Ciaran McCrees
ing that's needed
often enough to warrant a proper solution. The attached implements
get_version_component_count and get_last_version_component_index.
Thoughts?
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer of the shiny hat)
Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web : http:/
lf
| on the internets, the new content will show up.
So, uh, was 42 approved or not then? I was under the impression that
the final draft was too late to make the March deadline...
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer of the shiny hat)
Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web
On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:53:09 +0100 Henrik Brix Andersen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| Back then, I opened bug #115327 listing the offending ebuilds and
| mostly all, except the GNUStep ebuilds, have now been updated for this
| change.
Are they all in package.mask?
--
Ciaran McCreesh :
anywhere -- this not only makes it harder for users to
write good ebuilds, but also leads to some of them being dissuaded when
they're told that the only way to know what's policy is by having paid
attention on the mailing lists for the past five years.
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Deve
sy to sneak some very devious
code (e.g. that'd grant remote root access and post an IP somewhere)
into an ebuild that'd be very hard to spot by anyone who doesn't
realy know what they're doing.
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer of the shiny hat)
Ma
e that
includes rsync with cache as a frontend: you will be giving root access
to your box to any user with commit access.
--
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Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm
signature.asc
Descriptio
ev said somewhere. That is
| what overlays are about, not?
Sounds like a perfect way to break lots and lots of systems. Those
policies are mostly there for good reason.
--
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Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web : http
their systems in weird ways and don't
realise the cause.
--
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Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm
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parate thread, just one reason or example - I'm
| really uncomfortable e.g. w/ QA intervening in overlays stuff,
| considering the current way QA is being done in Gentoo...
I'm really uncomfortable with QA intervening anywhere. It would be far
nicer if the appropriate developers ensur
's a lot easier to get them fixed
before vim7 goes stable rather than after.
On the other hand, I don't have reliable bugzilla / email / IRC /
phone / electricity / hot water access until next Tuesday, so it may be
better left until then...
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wear
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 13:28:05 + Ciaran McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
| As of now, vim 7 alpha is unsupported and should no longer be used.
| For those of you who don't think I'm a "security risk", there're vim
| 7 beta ebuilds at:
|
| http://dev.g
uld be nice if in the future
this kind of discussion were done *before* packages start to be changed
in weird and wonderful ways. It's generally considered bad manners to
start screwing around with other people's packages without asking...
Plus there's the whole "learn from pa
lace?
|
| Getting the junk out of tree and mind as fast as possible is a value
| in itself.
Once it's in p.mask it's effectively gone, to the extent that ignoring
it for a month is fine.
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer of the shiny hat)
Mail: ciaranm at g
On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 22:20:49 +0200 Carsten Lohrke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
| On Sunday 02 April 2006 21:31, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > The usual period is thirty days.
|
| Grep this mailing list, most often a one week period was used.
This is a recent change, and usually someone rep
s of packages depending on
| sys-apps/findutils and then using a generic "find" instead of gfind
| on non-GNU userland.
Being a system package and one that's required by over half the tree,
deps on find except in other system packages are probably superfluous...
--
Ciaran McCrees
f a
keyword filter) inspect emails sent to all @gentoo.org addresses for
any signs of subversive activity. You could also add a clause saying
that developers must hand over their harddrives to infra upon request so
that security audits can be performed.
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer o
ptions
| > are those case already stated above.
|
| I think your understanding of how things work is a tad skewed here.
Well yes. He's understanding how things are supposed to work, not how
those with root have decided that they shall work.
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (W
On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 00:03:08 + (UTC) Ferris McCormick
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| I still think the intent is good and support it.
The intent is to allow infra to arbitrarily suspend anyone they like,
with no accountability.
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer of the shi
making spurious complaints to devrel at every given opportunity,
I'd say that the mere existence of such a procedure only goes to
encourage them to misbehave further.
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer of the shiny hat)
Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web : http://de
ow
many dumb feature requests, questions and requests for code from the
unwashed masses someone would get if they admitted to having an early
alpha of an alternative to Portage that didn't require Python? Having
to deal with the noise would be more than enough to ensure that no more
reaking.
* If we're looking to increase the flow of end users -> super users ->
developers, perhaps we should focus more upon improving development
tools or development documentation.
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer of the shiny hat)
Mail: ciaranm at gentoo.o
On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 11:33:12 +0200 Grobian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| On 07-04-2006 11:07:28 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > I mean, as a purely hypothetical example... Could you imagine just
| > how many dumb feature requests, questions and requests for code
| > from the
have a right to a) see the code, b) make
suggestions, c) demand new features, d) get support and e) annoy other
developers or upstream when they break something that has a knock-on
effect of breaking an unrelated package.
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer of the shiny hat)
Mail
There's a good testsuite which would have caught this at [1].
[1]: http://csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/shs.htm
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Mail: ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
impressed, or scared!
Nor, from the looks of things, did you notice that it was a humourous
quote rather than a threat. But then, you seem to enjoy jumping to
absurd conclusions based upon the delusion that anyone cares enough to
be out to get you. Tell me, are you sure you're not another
On Wed, 10 May 2006 00:07:29 -0700 Donnie Berkholz
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| so discussion with at least the portage team would be merited.
Already happened, in amongst all the other GLEP 42 stuff.
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Mail: ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk
--
gent
On Wed, 10 May 2006 10:13:36 -0700 Donnie Berkholz
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > On Wed, 10 May 2006 00:07:29 -0700 Donnie Berkholz
| > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| > | so discussion with at least the portage team would be merited.
| >
| > A
ple to
move onto a package manager that doesn't suck.
Now, if you were to object to, say, -scm versions in the main tree,
whose very existence causes Portage to crap itself messily and die, you
might have a point. But adding a profile only screws things up for
users who manually switch to it, and it only screws them up temporarily
and fairly cleanly.
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
#x27;s been done in the past for
new Portage versions).
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re tiny compared to the
changes that have been required for various Portage upgrades.
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o
something very very dumb. Paludis is less likely to break your system
than reiserfs.
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bility with vdb/tree, paludis has no real
| future with gentoo beyond forking- requiring 100,000 users to
| reinstall because you don't want to do backwards compatibility is
| daft.
A reinstall isn't needed at all.
| The original discussion was about adding a paludis profile (not
| "portage sucks"), getting back to it, paludis is incompatible with
| portage at the actual ebuild level- considering that, why should the
| tree be modified to add a profile that's just going to introduce
| further breakage?
Paludis is no more incompatible with ebuilds than any new Portage
release is.
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On Tue, 16 May 2006 19:35:32 +0200 "Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| On Tuesday 16 May 2006 19:20, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > That's rather funny, when one considers the whole BSD profile
| > structure and the zillions of ebuild
#x27;s considered important (which it will be, at some
point in the future).
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| If there is any burden other than the points you mentioned, it
| directly or indirectly falls on them.
Adding a new profile doesn't affect Portage unless Portage is told to
use that profile. And anyone telling Portage to use *any* invalid
profile is going to be in for a shock.
--
#x27;ve gone and done
| that render it incompatible, and the response is "portage does it
| worse"? Portage doesn't willy nilly convert/drop vars, nor screw with
| the env handling.
Not emulating Portage bugs isn't an incompatibility.
| That and the thread is getting fairly wide in discusion, rather then
| the profile specific "does alt pkg manager X cruft belong in the
| tree?"
Well yes, because rather than discussing the issues, you're trying to
turn this into your personal crusade against Paludis.
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we should start making changes to the tree for another
> package manager, pkgcore or paludis.
Looks like you were agreeing with a "change" argument to me.
| So I didn't appeal to any "big change" argument, and you're still
| missing your point.
Ooh, so i
On Tue, 16 May 2006 21:56:10 +0100 Daniel Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > Adding a new profile doesn't affect Portage unless Portage is told
| > to use that profile. And anyone telling Portage to use *any* invalid
| > profile is going to be in for
On Tue, 16 May 2006 23:03:35 +0200 "Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| On Tuesday 16 May 2006 22:52, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > Perhaps you should've read Halcy0n's post:
| Perhaps you should think before writing, before acting, before
ime on discussions like that. - So am I.
If you'd like far less time wasted on discussions, perhaps you and your
co-offenders should try not posting huge numbers of emails that are
free of technical objections.
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the long run, if the outcome
| would be that Gentoo divides into groups using different package
| managers.
I strongly suspect that in the long run one package manager will stand
out as by far the best solution. Whichever one this ends up being, it
will be one of the modular rewrites that makes futu
to be in the tree in
such a way that they appear masked to Portage. That's a large part of
the point of EAPI.
| - It would be greatly beneficial if paludis would create and use .tbz2
| packages, but this is not essential.
Paludis will use its own binary format.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail
sted in here --
| > that the system set not pull in portage when paludis is being used
| > instead.
|
| Is there a problem about both of them being there?
Yes. Portage has a few zillion deps more than Paludis.
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as been banned by the
Gentoo thought police.
--
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--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
ather
| > | then the profile specific "does alt pkg manager X cruft belong in
| > | the tree?"
| >
| > Well yes, because rather than discussing the issues, you're trying
| > to turn this into your personal crusade against Paludis.
|
| Sorry you see it that way, meanwhi
n come up with a
solution that won't...
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
ementation of a CRAN repository, for example.
|
| Doesn't sound like independent runtime components, as I am proposing.
It's compile time at present, simply because no-one considers it worth
the effort of screwing around with .so files until it's really really
necessary.
--
My understanding of what's
supposed to happen is that -string removes dep atoms equal to that
string. There's no fancy "do these ranges intersect" code, nor can I
think of a way to reasonably define such a thing.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail: ciaran dot mccreesh at blue
udis were to ever be used for release
| building. Otherwise, it isn't required.
No, support for *some* kind of binary package format is necessary.
Support for Portage .tbz2 packages is pointless.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail: ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk
--
gentoo-dev@g
at how much Portage stuff there is in the
profiles. The Portage-specific things are why Paludis needs its own
profile.
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e masked packages are not considered official.
What of EAPI masked packages?
The same situation will occur when newer Portage versions supporting
newer EAPIs are released into p.mask or ~arch. Some packages will end
up relying upon something that isn't the stable package manager.
--
Ciaran Mc
h what an
| ebuild is than what portage does though.
Look in base/packages:
*>=sys-apps/portage-2.0.51.22
*dev-lang/python
--
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ckage manager" isn't something that's in package.mask.
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| therefore, the profile would be unsupported, and the point you were
| making disappears.
To work around Portage, not because the profile is deprecated in the
conventional sense.
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erfering with what would otherwise be a technical discussion.
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inally. It's
also utterly untrue, given how easy it would be to do installs the
non-stage-based way using Paludis. That's one of the many reasons we're
not going to be using the tbz2 format.
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gentoo-d
er
the development of Portage? Please consider long-standing feature
requests such as :slot and [use] deps in your answer.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail: ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
s, this has nothing to do
| with the issue, unless you're trying to bash the portage team, which
| has nothing to do with this thread.
Sure it does. It's a perfect demonstration that the needs and demands
of Gentoo have no influence over what happens to Portage.
--
Ciaran McC
implementation I'd love to know.
Portage still relies upon being able to source ebuilds, even if their
EAPI isn't supported.
| Additionally, you went and commited the vars into paludis (doing
| exactly what I said to do), thank you- lets avoid the 5 emails back
| and forth in the future how
s were to
ever be used for release building.". There is more than one way to skin
a cat, and some of those ways don't involve getting blood all over the
floor.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail: ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
On Wed, 17 May 2006 21:22:28 +0200 Paul de Vrieze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
| On Wednesday 17 May 2006 20:44, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > Portage still relies upon being able to source ebuilds, even if
| > their EAPI isn't supported.
|
| Currently, nothing except the abil
cal feature required for enterprise support.
| Related, doc this stuff out please. Portage differences doc you've
| got is more "we're better cause of xyz"- which is fine, but a low
| level "this is what we do differently" (metadata/security fex) would
| at least all
Paludis. The installer code
is flexible enough to make this not to tricky.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail: ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
tage and is
identical to Portage, it's a no go. Which is clearly crazy talk, since
Paludis can already be used to install a system from scratch -- it just
does so differently.
--
Ciaran McCreesh
Mail: ciaran dot mccreesh at blueyonder.co.uk
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
which means following the Release Guidelines to the letter.
If you look at it that way (which isn't what he actually asked to begin
with), then the question is "is Paludis identical to Portage?", which
it clearly isn't. A more useful question is "can Paludis give the same
end r
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