t;
>> - Original Message
>>
>>> From: Greg Brown
>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 11:12:36 PM
>>> Subject: Re: incorrect terminology: lead developers
>>>
>>>> We don't have a noti
On Tue 11 Aug 2009 11:28, Greg Brown wrote:
> Thanks, Niclas. Very appropriate material. This very clearly draws a
> distinction between the terms "leader" (as I have been attempting to
> use it) and "manager" (by which I would never describe myself).
>
> IMO, successful projects (including thos
Leo Simons wrote:
> Greg Brown wrote:
> >
> > If I can attempt to summarize, there is a difference between the *concept*
> > of a leader and the *title* of a leader here at ASF (please correct me if I
> > am wrong).
>
> Correct! You missed the rationale in the summary, though :-)
>
> * There is a
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 4:40 AM, Greg Brown wrote:
> If I can attempt to summarize, there is a difference between the *concept*
> of a leader and the *title* of a leader here at ASF (please correct me if I
> am wrong).
Correct! You missed the rationale in the summary, though :-)
* There is a goal
- Original Message
> From: Greg Brown
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 11:34:35 PM
> Subject: Re: incorrect terminology: lead developers
>
> > Traditionally the "leadership" comes from the membership
> > of the
If I can attempt to summarize, there is a difference between the
*concept* of a leader and the *title* of a leader here at ASF (please
correct me if I am wrong). In Pivot's status report, we were
attempting to capture the concept, not the title. However, since it is
a loaded term, it makes
Traditionally the "leadership" comes from the membership
of the Project Management Committee. People tend to take
on a variety of roles within a project, some being more
leader-follower type roles and others revolving around a
small team that shares collective control over direction
of the projec
he PMC Chair is little more than a glorified secretary
in a smoothly operating Apache project.
- Original Message
> From: Greg Brown
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 11:23:12 PM
> Subject: Re: incorrect terminology: lead developers
>
>
Thanks, Niclas. Very appropriate material. This very clearly draws a
distinction between the terms "leader" (as I have been attempting to
use it) and "manager" (by which I would never describe myself).
IMO, successful projects (including those at ASF) need leadership, not
"management". So d
I have had a long chat with Greg, and I think I can somewhat
understand his angle. Taken from Wikipedia;
* Management involves power by position.
* Leadership involves power by influence.
* Managers administer; leaders innovate.
* Managers ask how and when; leaders ask what and wh
ot;leader" (or leaders), will go nowhere.
G
On Aug 10, 2009, at 11:18 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote:
- Original Message
From: Greg Brown
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 11:12:36 PM
Subject: Re: incorrect terminology: lead developers
We don't
- Original Message
> From: Greg Brown
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 11:12:36 PM
> Subject: Re: incorrect terminology: lead developers
>
> > We don't have a notion of fixed leadership at Apache. Leadership is
> > alw
We don't have a notion of fixed leadership at Apache. Leadership is
always welcome but it is determined by the will of the group in
question
at a given point in time, not based on one's official status. We
try to
avoid status symbols in order to retain the fair balance of individual
decisio
- Original Message
> From: Greg Brown
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:38:16 PM
> Subject: Re: incorrect terminology: lead developers
>
> Apologies. I'm fired up about another discussion on the pivot-dev list and
> I&
Apologies. I'm fired up about another discussion on the pivot-dev list
and I'm letting it bleed over here.
My assertion stands, though. I don't think that it is realistic to
think that any non-trivial project can be effectively guided without
some concept of leadership. Do others on this li
Ordinarily, I'd refrain from comment on a topic such as this. But I
think it's pretty unrealistic to consider any project, especially one
of Pivot's magnitude, to be practically fostered without any kind of
"leader". I don't claim authority, and I don't think that my vote
counts any more th
This is a general comment to everyone. It is finally triggered
by this month's report from Pivot.
There is no such concept at the ASF as "leading developer".
Yes i know that the Jira issue tracker is misleading, as it has
an incorrect label on its interface: "Project Lead"
https://issues.apache.o
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