Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
On Tue, 2006-02-07 at 14:54 +0100, Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
What happened to the "Starting a java specs project" thread?
Um, probably the same thing that happens to many threads- like a
firework .. goes up with heat, blows up in great color and then falls
down silent
On 2/7/2006 7:23 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
On Tue, 2006-02-07 at 14:54 +0100, Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
What happened to the "Starting a java specs project" thread?
Um, probably the same thing that happens to many threads- like a
firework .. goes up with heat, blows up in great colo
On Tue, 2006-02-07 at 14:54 +0100, Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
> What happened to the "Starting a java specs project" thread?
Um, probably the same thing that happens to many threads- like a
firework .. goes up with heat, blows up in great color and then falls
down silently .. ;-).
Sanjiva.
What happened to the "Starting a java specs project" thread?
--
If you obey all the rules you miss all the fun. (Katharine Hepburn)
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On 1/2/2006 10:20 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
There are plenty of non-JCP specs, e.g. CORBA.
Do they have the same kind of "independent artifacts" like some of
these JCP specs do? I've been thinking about this too - what other
specs have a similar kind of m
Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
There are plenty of non-JCP specs, e.g. CORBA.
Do they have the same kind of "independent artifacts" like some of these
JCP specs do? I've been thinking about this too - what other specs have
a similar kind of mechanism?
geir
-
Henri Yandell wrote:
On 12/31/05, Craig L Russell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I haven't been involved in any history here, so please forgive my naivete.
I think I understand the rationale for developing spec jars here at Apache.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. In order to use a spec jar from
On 1/1/2006 5:23 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
On 12/31/05, Craig L Russell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I haven't been involved in any history here, so please forgive my naivete.
I think I understand the rationale for developing spec jars here at Apache.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. In order t
On 12/31/05, Craig L Russell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I haven't been involved in any history here, so please forgive my naivete.
>
> I think I understand the rationale for developing spec jars here at Apache.
> Please correct me if I'm wrong. In order to use a spec jar from the JCP, you
> have
Craig L Russell wrote:
On Jan 1, 2006, at 10:01 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
Craig, you hit the nail on the head with this. I am running into
this now. The impetus for my attempting to start this is that I
currently have to go on an easter egg hunt for spec jars.
On Jan 1, 2006, at 10:01 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:Alan D. Cabrera wrote: Craig, you hit the nail on the head with this. I am running into this now. The impetus for my attempting to start this is that I currently have to go on an easter egg hunt for spec jars. I have no strong feelings how the
Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
Craig, you hit the nail on the head with this. I am running into this
now. The impetus for my attempting to start this is that I currently
have to go on an easter egg hunt for spec jars. I have no strong
feelings how the jars get into a central place for me to fin
On 12/31/2005 1:12 PM, Craig L Russell wrote:
I haven't been involved in any history here, so please forgive my
naivete.
I think I understand the rationale for developing spec jars here at
Apache. Please correct me if I'm wrong. In order to use a spec jar
from the JCP, you have to click a li
I haven't been involved in any history here, so please forgive my naivete.I think I understand the rationale for developing spec jars here at Apache. Please correct me if I'm wrong. In order to use a spec jar from the JCP, you have to click a license every time you download it. And this can be a re
I was going to respond last night, but I'd been incubatored-out.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
this is just for sources of javax.* NOT implementations. One location
for a servlet-api.jar, jaxrpc.jar, saaj.jar, xml-apis.jar.
Geir wrote:
No - the spec jars for those thing
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
On Saturday 31 December 2005 07:36, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
In any
event, <...> an
uber-umbrella isn't making sense to me, so far.
+1
Don't force things in place. To me, the most logical step forward is that most
"uninteresting, boring, stenography" of specs sits in
On Saturday 31 December 2005 07:36, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> In any
> event, <...> an
> uber-umbrella isn't making sense to me, so far.
+1
Don't force things in place. To me, the most logical step forward is that most
"uninteresting, boring, stenography" of specs sits in Geronimo, mainly
becaus
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
What's the point? To show that you can compile and link against the spec?
Yes. And i do personally think this is a good practice to ensure
portability.
Maven 2 has scoped transitive dependencies : you can specify that your code
compiles against the spec, and test
On 12/31/05, Noel J. Bergman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
>
> > If you, as a user, are looking for a replacement of Sun's
> >jar files, you wouldn't look for JaxMe. But you'd
> >probably look for a central location of SPEC jar files.
>
> Why would I want to replace Su
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> this is just for sources of javax.* NOT implementations. One location
> for a servlet-api.jar, jaxrpc.jar, saaj.jar, xml-apis.jar.
Geir wrote:
> No - the spec jars for those things. Not the implementations.
Ah. And JavaMail? There is only one functional JavaMail out
Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
> If you, as a user, are looking for a replacement of Sun's
>jar files, you wouldn't look for JaxMe. But you'd
>probably look for a central location of SPEC jar files.
Why would I want to replace Sun's jar files? Only because I want an
implementation, and that's wh
Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
There's an interesting idea. So there is a shared repo destination that
all the respective projects public spec jars into? I would imagine that
we would need some convention published in each project so that the spec
jars can easily be found.
I do not agree that gath
On 12/30/2005 1:27 PM, Craig McClanahan wrote:
On 12/30/05, Alan D. Cabrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Looks good to me.
Guys, should we not begin to create a specs project in Jakarta? It
seems that we have a consensus.
Well, maybe ... I have a couple of concerns about the practica
Craig McClanahan wrote:
(b) JSRs that Apache does not host implementations for, but where projects
might
want to rely on implementations acquired elsewhere.
For group (a), the current practice is to host the API classes inside the
project that is also providing the implementation. That makes
Craig McClanahan wrote:
Note that if a primary goal of this effort is to have a common repository of
API jars (and that's certainly a worthy goal), it doesn't require a separate
project to accomplish that -- simply a mechanism for cooperation on what
repository to post API jars into. (However
gt;
> Regards,
> Alan
>
> On 12/30/2005 6:14 AM, James Carman wrote:
>
> >Why not do like we do with the commons?
> >
> >spec-javamail
> >
> >
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Henri Yandell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Se
-
From: Henri Yandell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 9:08 AM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Starting a java specs project
On 12/27/05, Hiram Chirino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi,
I think this would be great! I know it's
On Dec 30, 2005, at 10:57 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:Craig L Russell wrote: On Dec 30, 2005, at 10:18 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: Does it need to? only if people want it. JPOX is the RI, and I always feel that a truly competitive impl of a spec isn't going to be the RI. You don't want to do re
Craig L Russell wrote:
On Dec 30, 2005, at 10:18 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
Does it need to? only if people want it. JPOX is the RI, and I
always feel that a truly competitive impl of a spec isn't going to be
the RI. You don't want to do real extension and surrounding innovation
in
On 12/30/2005 10:29 AM, Craig L Russell wrote:
2. There is no reason that I know of to restrict commit privileges on
the javax code to expert group members. The TCKs typically include
signature tests that verify that the interfaces and classes contain
exactly what they are supposed to.
I agr
On Dec 30, 2005, at 10:18 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:Brett Porter wrote: On 12/31/05, Geir Magnusson Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I think it was just coming out of incubation, but yes, that's somethingwe should point to somehow. I agree. This point actually raises something else - it would be a b
On Dec 30, 2005, at 9:50 AM, Brett Porter wrote:On 12/31/05, Geir Magnusson Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I think it was just coming out of incubation, but yes, that's somethingwe should point to somehow. I agree. This point actually raises something else - it would be a bitsilly to have a specs pr
Craig L Russell wrote:
4. Apache JDO (which notwithstanding information on the incubator web
site has graduated;-)
Hey, I fixed the source page. Didn't the magical process happen to get
it published? :)
geir
-
To u
I have a few observations that might help inform what we do here.1. There is often what you might call "implementation" in the javax. domain. There are bootstrap classes in the JSR 220 and JSRs 12 and 243 that must be implemented by the javax code. And Exceptions and Errors have to be classes. But
On 12/30/2005 10:18 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:
On 12/30/05, Thomas Dudziak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 12/30/05, Henri Yandell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Reasons for not Jakarta:
*) Java specific.
I wonder why it has to be Java-specific ? Aren't there any standards
that conta
Henri Yandell wrote:
On 12/30/05, Thomas Dudziak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 12/30/05, Henri Yandell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Reasons for not Jakarta:
*) Java specific.
I wonder why it has to be Java-specific ? Aren't there any standards
that contains bindings for several languages
Brett Porter wrote:
On 12/31/05, Geir Magnusson Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I think it was just coming out of incubation, but yes, that's something
we should point to somehow.
I agree. This point actually raises something else - it would be a bit
silly to have a specs project ("here are
On 12/30/05, Thomas Dudziak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 12/30/05, Henri Yandell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Reasons for not Jakarta:
> >
> > *) Java specific.
> >
> I wonder why it has to be Java-specific ? Aren't there any standards
> that contains bindings for several languages ?
Good
On 12/30/05, Henri Yandell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Reasons for Jakarta would be:
>
> *) Good reuse of branding. Jakarta is still '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' to many out
> there and I think we should use this instead of letting it drop.
>
> *) Helps Jakarta become a Java Federation. Code reflects comm
On 12/30/05, Brett Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I understand the earlier point that there might not be a lot of coding
> going on here and that might hinder building any community around it.
> However, its another excuse for a bunch of people doing Java stuff to
> get together in one place,
On 12/30/05, Geir Magnusson Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Dec 27, 2005, at 2:42 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
> > ie) Keep them as a part of Jakarta Commons [the community development
> > at Jakarta] or make a third component in Jakarta [along with Jakarta
> > General, the conversation place] ca
On 12/31/05, Geir Magnusson Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think it was just coming out of incubation, but yes, that's something
> we should point to somehow.
I agree. This point actually raises something else - it would be a bit
silly to have a specs project ("here are all our Java specs!") if
IIRC, they are going to be the RI for JDO2.
I think that an indep impl that isn't the RI would be healthy. Maybe we
could base on the JPOX2 codebase as a start. It won't be a fork, IMO.
I don't have the time though...
geir
Thomas Dudziak wrote:
On 12/30/05, Geir Magnusson Jr <[EMAIL PROT
On 12/30/05, Geir Magnusson Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Not sure if the JDO spec is being referenced, but that is a spec+TCK project
> > only, where a portion of th EG are ASF committers and the spec development
> > happens on the ASF infrastructure.
>
> I think it was just coming out of inc
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
On Friday 30 December 2005 22:52, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
I'm missing something fundamental. What would a JSR Expert Group
have to do with this? We are talking about the API jars for
completed JSRs, right, and maybe other specs if there are any that
require simi
On 12/30/2005 6:54 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
On Dec 28, 2005, at 11:26 AM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
On 12/27/2005 4:25 PM, Brett Porter wrote:
Discussion of upcoming specs, discussion of usage of the specs, a
users list that helps people use the specs (this is necessary, but
worries me ab
On Friday 30 December 2005 22:52, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> I'm missing something fundamental. What would a JSR Expert Group
> have to do with this? We are talking about the API jars for
> completed JSRs, right, and maybe other specs if there are any that
> require similar machinations?
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
There has been some discussion on creating a Java specs project
which would hold all the specs jars from the various JSRs as well
as other standards, e.g. CORBA. Often, there are many duplicate
"copies" of the source code for the same JSR floati
Noel,
this is just for sources of javax.* NOT implementations. One location
for a servlet-api.jar, jaxrpc.jar, saaj.jar, xml-apis.jar.
-- dims
On 12/30/05, Noel J. Bergman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
>
> > There has been some discussion on creating a Java specs project
>
Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
> There has been some discussion on creating a Java specs project
> which would hold all the specs jars from the various JSRs as well
> as other standards, e.g. CORBA. Often, there are many duplicate
> "copies" of the source code for the same JSR floating around in
> differ
Yoav Shapira wrote:
Hi,
I'm missing something fundamental. What would a JSR Expert Group
have to do with this? We are talking about the API jars for
completed JSRs, right, and maybe other specs if there are any that
require similar machinations? (I can't think of any...)
I raised the E
Hi,
> I'm missing something fundamental. What would a JSR Expert Group
> have to do with this? We are talking about the API jars for
> completed JSRs, right, and maybe other specs if there are any that
> require similar machinations? (I can't think of any...)
I raised the EG commit point for c
On Dec 28, 2005, at 11:26 AM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
On 12/27/2005 4:25 PM, Brett Porter wrote:
Discussion of upcoming specs, discussion of usage of the specs, a
users list that helps people use the specs (this is necessary, but
worries me about getting "how do I do servlets" type questions).
On Dec 27, 2005, at 10:12 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
On 12/27/05, Alan D. Cabrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Seems like an oxymoron, community should be active, but the code may
not, no? How can this be?
Two ways:
1) The conversation that Brett mentions. General pan-apache Java
things. I'm a
On Dec 27, 2005, at 2:42 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
On 12/27/05, Geir Magnusson Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Dec 27, 2005, at 11:42 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:
My aim for Jakarta is to either promote subprojects to TLP or
flatten them into Jakarta Commons, leading to a non-umbrella
Jakarta
I need to catch up, clearly. I thought I suggested we do here in
anticipation of a TLP. I've been being lazy the past few days. I'll
go read and reply now...
geir
On Dec 30, 2005, at 9:10 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:
On 12/28/05, Alan D. Cabrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I still don't se
+1 from me too. Let's do it. We can move the saaj/jaxrpc/jaxws specs
out from Axis tree.
-- dims
On 12/30/05, Henri Yandell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 12/28/05, Alan D. Cabrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I still don't see #1. However, I still feel that this all belongs in
> > Jakart
Why not do like we do with the commons?
spec-javamail
-Original Message-
From: Henri Yandell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 9:08 AM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Starting a java specs project
On 12/27/05, Hiram Chirino
On 12/28/05, Alan D. Cabrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I still don't see #1. However, I still feel that this all belongs in
> Jakarta Commons.
Of the 6 people involved in the thread here, I'd guess at 3 +1's to
start this at Jakarta right away; and nothing from Jochen/Hiram/Geir
seems like a
On 12/27/05, Hiram Chirino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think this would be great! I know it's silly, but I get annoyed at
> the fact that many of the J2EE spec jars that I use from apache have
> "geronimo-" in the jar name but It's just the ASL 2.0 spec jars that
> I'm using and not rea
On 12/27/2005 7:12 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
On 12/27/05, Alan D. Cabrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Seems like an oxymoron, community should be active, but the code may
not, no? How can this be?
Two ways:
1) The conversation that Brett mentions. General pan-apache Java
things. I'm a
On 12/27/2005 4:25 PM, Brett Porter wrote:
Discussion of upcoming specs, discussion of usage of the specs, a
users list that helps people use the specs (this is necessary, but
worries me about getting "how do I do servlets" type questions).
I guess there is also scope to innovate in addition to
On 12/27/05, Alan D. Cabrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Seems like an oxymoron, community should be active, but the code may
> not, no? How can this be?
Two ways:
1) The conversation that Brett mentions. General pan-apache Java
things. I'm a little worried about any authorization issues where
Discussion of upcoming specs, discussion of usage of the specs, a
users list that helps people use the specs (this is necessary, but
worries me about getting "how do I do servlets" type questions).
I guess there is also scope to innovate in addition to the specs and
work on commons components that
Seems like an oxymoron, community should be active, but the code may
not, no? How can this be?
Regards,
Alan
On 12/27/2005 4:04 PM, Brett Porter wrote:
I'm no sure I agree. I think the community should be active, but the
code may not be. Perhaps too optimistic :)
- Brett
On 12/28/05, Alan
I'm no sure I agree. I think the community should be active, but the
code may not be. Perhaps too optimistic :)
- Brett
On 12/28/05, Alan D. Cabrera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would think that given its very nature, specs, the community would not
> be very active at all.
On 12/27/2005 3:50 PM, Brett Porter wrote:
On 12/28/05, Henri Yandell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Yeah, I've forwarded this to [EMAIL PROTECTED] as well so I can get
feedback from both sides. The above meant 'the commons community way'
rather than the exact people. ie) I'm expecting the origi
On 12/28/05, Henri Yandell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yeah, I've forwarded this to [EMAIL PROTECTED] as well so I can get
> feedback from both sides. The above meant 'the commons community way'
> rather than the exact people. ie) I'm expecting the original coders
> to, in most cases, still be mai
Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
There has been some discussion on creating a Java specs project which
would hold all the specs jars from the various JSRs as well as other
standards, e.g. CORBA. Often, there are many duplicate "copies" of the
source code for the same JSR floating around in different Ap
On 12/27/05, Geir Magnusson Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dropped jcp-open cross-post.
>
> On Dec 27, 2005, at 12:00 PM, Hiram Chirino wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I think this would be great! I know it's silly, but I get annoyed
> > at the fact that many of the J2EE spec jars that I use from apach
On 12/27/05, Geir Magnusson Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Dec 27, 2005, at 11:42 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>
> > My aim for Jakarta is to either promote subprojects to TLP or
> > flatten them into Jakarta Commons, leading to a non-umbrella
> > Jakarta (I know, you didn't think you'd see it i
Hi,
I think this would be great! I know it's silly, but I get annoyed at
the fact that many of the J2EE spec jars that I use from apache have
"geronimo-" in the jar name but It's just the ASL 2.0 spec jars that
I'm using and not really a geronimo implementation. In general, I
think that
One idea was to collate them as a part of Jakarta.
My aim for Jakarta is to either promote subprojects to TLP or flatten them
into Jakarta Commons, leading to a non-umbrella Jakarta (I know, you
didn't think you'd see it in your lifetime). This new Jakarta would
have the potential to serve tw
Dropped jcp-open cross-post.
On Dec 27, 2005, at 12:00 PM, Hiram Chirino wrote:
Hi,
I think this would be great! I know it's silly, but I get annoyed
at the fact that many of the J2EE spec jars that I use from apache
have "geronimo-" in the jar name but It's just the ASL 2.0 spec
jars t
On Dec 27, 2005, at 11:42 AM, Henri Yandell wrote:
One idea was to collate them as a part of Jakarta.
I'd never heard that one ;)
My aim for Jakarta is to either promote subprojects to TLP or
flatten them into Jakarta Commons, leading to a non-umbrella
Jakarta (I know, you didn't thin
On 12/27/2005 9:17 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
On Dec 27, 2005, at 11:13 AM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
There has been some discussion on creating a Java specs project
which would hold all the specs jars from the various JSRs as well as
other standards, e.g. CORBA. Often, there are many dup
On Dec 27, 2005, at 11:13 AM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
There has been some discussion on creating a Java specs project
which would hold all the specs jars from the various JSRs as well
as other standards, e.g. CORBA. Often, there are many duplicate
"copies" of the source code for the same J
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