+1
Romain Manni-Bucau
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+1, tested on some Apache and Yupiik OSS projects
Romain Manni-Bucau
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Jpms is not a topic, you can use jpms and mjars using a makefilr do maven
can be rewritten in go and it would work (otherwise toolchain and java
min+n couldn't work).
Now to be concrete: how to we exit this thread, vote is quite pointless and
will be in loop I fear so we need a way to move forward
while they are
good to give some planning and enable companies to plan some investment to
migrate, they are not something immutable neither.
Romain Manni-Bucau
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spect that or do respect that in the
future.
My point is that we can say the exact same reasons to never release v4
whereas it is adopted by several people since months now so we should let
it go and handle bugs as bugs and not as RC which doesnt mean anything
anymore IMHO.
Romain Manni-Bucau
@r
.
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+1
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sure why we would reinvent the wheel when we already support it - in
terms of layout, in terms of plugin we have work to do but nothing crazier
than what you already do so I would just finish the work.
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://x.com/rmannibucau> | .NET Blog
l end in the same jar your proposal is the way to
go, else it goes against maven and updating the plugins sounds more logical
in current model AFAIK.
Romain Manni-Bucau
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I still fail why you need to not respect current maven layout, you are
allowed to enhance plugins to be inter maven modules if you want - tycho
does it for years - and it would be more natural for maven land IMHO and
enables JPMS for the few willing to use this mode, no?
Romain Manni-Bucau
Hi Martin,
I didn't get why we can't get 1 artifact = 1 module so can stick to current
convention.
AFAIK maven always rejected multiple "main" artifacts/module even if we all
do.
Romain Manni-Bucau
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<https://do
case), you should just pick one and stick.
Since we are not recreating maven I do not see any pro to switch (the main
con being people are used to a format and likely automated it).
So rather -0
Romain Manni-Bucau
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+1, libraries will enforce it at some point to be properly functional so
better to not start late with first 4.0.0
Romain Manni-Bucau
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Le mar. 15 avr. 2025 à 13:03, Martin Desruisseaux <
martin.desruisse...@geomatys.com> a écrit :
> Le 2025-04-15 à 11 h 53, Romain Manni-Bucau a écrit :
>
> >> If we add a new mechanism for allowing other plugins to access the
> >> configuration of the Java compile
Le mar. 15 avr. 2025 à 11:14, Martin Desruisseaux <
martin.desruisse...@geomatys.com> a écrit :
> Le 2025-04-15 à 08 h 01, Romain Manni-Bucau a écrit :
>
> > Depends if exported or not, but if it is an interface or abstract class
> > just to enable the module itself plug
Le mar. 15 avr. 2025 à 01:10, Martin Desruisseaux <
martin.desruisse...@geomatys.com> a écrit :
> Le 2025-04-14 à 19 h 43, Romain Manni-Bucau a écrit :
>
> > This is not always true, the common case is to inject a mock of an
> external
> > service to test an algorithm o
Le lun. 14 avr. 2025 à 18:57, Martin Desruisseaux <
martin.desruisse...@geomatys.com> a écrit :
> Le 2025-04-14 à 17 h 36, Romain Manni-Bucau a écrit :
>
> > white/black box tests (or whatever name you use today) are a good example
> > which show you need at least tw
Le lun. 14 avr. 2025 à 15:03, Martin Desruisseaux <
martin.desruisse...@geomatys.com> a écrit :
> Hello Romain
>
> Le 2025-04-14 à 14 h 28, Romain Manni-Bucau a écrit :
>
> > (…snip…)
> >
> > Doesn't it sound better than a file which looks like a java thin
igurable since you
can need to run surefire with multiple configurations to test different
cases (different group sets in my proposal).
Hope it makes some sense.
Romain Manni-Bucau
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+1
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+1 for this plan
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attributes specific to some plugins (which are not
even the majority of a build nowdays) and just standardize their usages in
our built-in plugins no?
Romain Manni-Bucau
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Hi Martin,
Topic way older than this change - so really not blaming at all but this
change makes it more obvious: any reason to move a plugin configuration
from plugin to ? (concretely why do we go that way instead of
dropping sources concept from build)?
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <ht
Or just upgrade asm in plugin dependencies ;)
Romain Manni-Bucau
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Looks like the error says the opposite, did you check the plugin asm
version and not maven one?
Romain Manni-Bucau
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Hi,
did you try upgrading asm in plugin deps?
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emove the hability to bring a full
consistent stack of dependencies but the solution is not bom and exists
since 10+ years in maven natively.
>
>
> Thomas
>
>
>
> On 19/03/2025 13:43, Romain Manni-Bucau wrote:
> > Can we step back a sec, what does bom bring that
e, to repeat my stance: personally, I'd never use these
> "problematic" BOMs in my projects,
> instead I'd "preprocess" them (flatten) as in that moment I (as
> consumer) am back in control:
> I can apply exclusions (in Maven 4), apply ordering and ove
supporting) bom in v>4.0.0 poms IMHO.
Romain Manni-Bucau
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Hmm, processor is not really a scope, more just a qualifier since it can be
used for compile or test scopes and even worse, often processors are
provided scope (maybe as a workaround to avoid optional but still a thing
in current maven picture).
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://x.
scope, there you have
includes/excludes and standard dependencies mechanism.
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Le lun. 17 mars 2025 à 14:27, Martin Desruisseaux <
martin.desruisse...@geomatys.com> a écrit :
> Le 2025-03-17 à 13 h 42, Romain Manni-Bucau a écrit :
>
> (about being closely related to which plugin us it):
>
> > This is a quite dangerous target cause you will end up wi
Le lun. 17 mars 2025 à 12:29, Martin Desruisseaux <
martin.desruisse...@geomatys.com> a écrit :
> Le 2025-03-17 à 12 h 02, Romain Manni-Bucau a écrit :
>
> > Concretely the issue there is that you now require the plugins to
> > configure a list of (type, scope) instead
" - joking on this one) and keep that easy to
consume.
We can keep scope as a maven 3 compatible thing and make it obsolete in v4
poms.
Romain Manni-Bucau
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Le dim. 16 mars 2025 à 22:44, Mark Derricutt a écrit :
> On 17 Mar 2025 at 3:04:31 AM, Romain Manni-Bucau
> wrote:
>
> > And it just breaks all editors and IDE out there except the almost no
> more
> > used netbeans ;)
> >
>
> Does it? I guess that depen
+1
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e vi to do java today.
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ution
which is against the spirit of maven having more conventions.
To be revised for maven 5 maybe but I think v4 would be too early since it
changes already a lot of things.
So long story short: IMHO we must enable it but not provide it in
org.apache.maven.
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https
AFAIK maven 4 was intended to support it as a first citizen thanks to
extension mechanism so if anything doesn't work we must enhance the maven 4
api to support it else we would have missed the v4 promotion when getting
final IMHO.
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://x.com/rma
+1
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Hi,
Think with the scope rework in maven 4 the feature is there, it is just not
yet consumed.
How it will look like will mainly depend on the integration (script in
gradle land) so not sure anything is missing except an opiniated scope
definition with its sibling extension.
Romain Manni-Bucau
+1
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e the core of the project in terms of maintenance.
Just my 2 cts.
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&l
Hi Matthias,
Think maven 4 will increase the need of 2 last majors but ultimately at
apache the support is what is done by committers/contributors - if one want
to roll out maven 2 it is doable.
Any other engagement is not doable - there had been a lot of debates on
that and I even promoted your
Le mar. 11 févr. 2025 à 07:32, Guillaume Nodet a écrit :
> I think this discussion tends to go away from two important points.
>
> First, consumer poms NEED to be able to be read by Maven 3.
> So you cannot really add any custom namespace, new elements or
> anything that would be rejected by Mave
Maybe we can start by just keeping the comments before or nested in kept
element and if the comment is before a dropped element (build) we drop it
as well? Will not reach 100% but maybe be sufficient to start?
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://x.com/rmannibucau> | .NET Blog
being
worse for XSD when they are nested in kept elements so the other topic
about custom tags can end up being way more complex IMHO.
Romain Manni-Bucau
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not as nice as just supporting XML for what it is
IMHO.
Romain Manni-Bucau
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Hi Anders,
Not sure it can really be problematic until it is considered as sources -
and it is not.
But 100% agree it can be neat to keep it at some point but then it means
flagging them as "keepable" to not keep the comment on build block which
will be stripped for example.
Romain M
how couldnt we generate v3 from v4 api and get it for free with a compat
layer for a few years - and keep a single bundle?
Romain Manni-Bucau
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. 4 févr. 2025 à 17:54, Martin Desruisseaux <
martin.desruisse...@geomatys.com> a écrit :
> Le 2025-02-04 à 16 h 27, Romain Manni-Bucau a écrit :
> >
> > there are still processors which are runtime jars, would you make them
> > declared twice and deduplicated by maven
Hi Martin,
there are still processors which are runtime jars, would you make them
declared twice and deduplicated by maven for relevant phases/scopes?
Romain Manni-Bucau
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ME in the pom is always a
better practise IMHO.
Hope it makes sense
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&l
+1
Le sam. 14 déc. 2024 à 12:08, Tamás Cservenák a
écrit :
> Howdy,
>
> the proper JIRA links is this:
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?projectId=12316922&version=12355288
>
> Thanks
> T
>
> On Sat, Dec 14, 2024 at 1:01 AM Guillaume Nodet wrote:
> >
> > We solved 38 is
Not sure it is that important since at the end it will fail but from my
experience, bypassing it during the dev (ie being bound late) is nicer
cause you iterate faster.
That said we can PR to make it "failAtEnd", would be good anyway
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://x.co
(and defeating spotless
setup).
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+-0 but maybe start to setup a routine which will generate a "team2.html"
page with a column "latest contribution" (mail or commit or review?) and
from there see how it looks like and then spawn again the emeritus topic?
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://x.com/rman
+1 while it stays forwarded to the list (dev@ only I guess) and we close
jira projects to avoid 2 sources of truth (side effect being to update
sites to reflect that project by project)
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
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+1 as well, central is really the reference download location for users and
toolings
Le ven. 4 oct. 2024 à 14:01, Tamás Cservenák a écrit :
> Howdy,
>
> +1 I agree and I'd like to have mvnd published to central as well.
>
> Thanks
> T
>
> On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 1:42 PM Niels Basjes wrote:
> >
>
Ultimatly we could use scm abstraction to use latest commit date, would be
almost always ok (except for stale cases and no scm but these cases dont
care abojt reproducibility).
Can just need a quick impl for git maybe to not penalise builds (direct
.git head file read if possible)
Le mer. 25 sept.
+1
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Having N module in a single repo is not a game changer in terms of releases
IMHO, if so our tooling is bad and can be enhanced so only question is all
in a single plugins (monoproject/module) or nothing, no?
Le sam. 17 août 2024 à 10:30, Christoph Läubrich a
écrit :
> Just wanted to mention that
Think we should either assume it and make these plugins embedded in core
(same loader) or just let it like that and if needed extract reusable
services in core when dep free.
Le jeu. 15 août 2024 à 16:39, Tamás Cservenák a
écrit :
> Eliotte,
>
> Who would "compete" within the ASF Maven project?
+0, from my window module is a generic term whereas project brings a
semantic which is regularly wrong for maven. Build-segment is ugly but more
accurate.
For me there is no real ambiguity with jpms since we cant use "module" for
jpms since it is not specific enough and would be worse and ambiguous
h does not support all
current use cases.
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Hi
Agree it should be absolute but there is no technical constraint -
ultimately it must be known how it resolves.
I know on ci it is common to use a relative path to avoid ci specific
internal path issues accross os/workers.
Le dim. 14 juil. 2024 à 09:52, Tamás Cservenák a
écrit :
> Howdy
>
>
+1
Romain Manni-Bucau
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+1, not even sure we need any beta phase
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+1
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+1
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atEnd feature cleanly and keep current
lifecycles.
Romain Manni-Bucau
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27;d priviledge the backward compat one).
Side note: indeed this does not work with split repo but this one has more
issues for my cases so this will not be enabled like that so not a topic
there.
Romain Manni-Bucau
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+1
Romain Manni-Bucau
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+1
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+1
Romain Manni-Bucau
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+1, thanks
(small request: can the title "Drop plugin cruft" be rewritten to describe
the issue in the changelog on jira?)
Romain Manni-Bucau
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you ask but you know it is gradle right ([1])? ;)
It is the risk to drive the build descriptors by code, you can get
conflicts using conventions not validating themselves in the build script.
[1] https://github.com/openjdk/jfx/blob/master/build.gradle#L1674
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau
nature of maven so think we are good like that
and it is saner to enable this kind of update than requiring them to create
a ton of version branches which will never be maintained so it is a good
trade off IMHO.
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
e tag on a personal (pmc) github fork
and only after the vote push it upstream to be able to drop it without any
impact for rerolls.
+1 for this one (no regression on tested projects) but hope it is the last
"burn"
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rman
Hi Guillaume,
Why isnt it beta1 - I know but we shouldn't burn version even in
alpha/beta, every time it makes noise we can't justify technically :(?
Romain Manni-Bucau
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+1
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+1
Le mar. 21 mai 2024 à 19:40, Manfred Moser a
écrit :
> Looks good!
>
> +1
>
> On 2024-05-21 8:17 a.m., Tamás Cservenák wrote:
> > Howdy,
> >
> > We solved 6 issues:
> >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?projectId=12323721&version=12354608
> >
> > There are still a coupl
+1, tested on a few projects (mvn 4 + java 17)
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
<https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog
<http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github <https://github.com/rmannibucau> |
LinkedIn <https://www.
1 or 2 (there are iso from an user perspective imho even if help plugins
looks natural)
Rather not 3 for me by design and to keep it light
Maybe 5: external self contained tool (always better to check a soft cause
if tool cant run your tool is useless: here if mvn doesnt run you cant
check anythi
t nor need of any maven thread since we don't change anything ;)
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
<https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog
<http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github <https://github.com/rmannibucau> |
Lin
issues in maven so let's try to use one of the existing
solutions maybe before moving to building a new maven - or discuss
rebuilding maven from scratch if that is the ultimate intent, if we break
the compat rule a lot of things can change and concepts can be
simplified+refined but AFAIK we are not i
Le lun. 6 mai 2024 à 19:40, Tamás Cservenák a écrit :
> Howdy,
>
> inline.
>
>
> Exactly...this is what will always happen with plugins and extensions.
> > Indeed you can add a phase after plugins then you moved the issue to one
> > more step but the issue is still *exactly* the same but in a new
the session data)
So there is not yet any describe use case requiring a new concept in maven
AFAIK.
>
>
> Thanks
> T
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 6, 2024 at 5:56 PM Romain Manni-Bucau
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Tamas
> >
> > So it is just a spi consommable from a
Hi Tamas
So it is just a spi consommable from a plugin using an extension to share a
state accross mojo execution...so nothing we already do.
My understanding of your request is to bring to maven 4 api this concept
for common needs (delayed tasks I'd say more than anything specific to
deployment)
> > > > > Am not saying we cannot keep SPI along with Plugins, I am just
> > saying
> > > > > that
> > > > > > it's pointless: we will have many releases of the same thing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon
covered for all cases
already.
If you want an auto-discovered case you don't cover the case you describe,
ie enable/disable deployAtEnd so I still don't see any issue for now.
>
> T
>
> T
>
> On Mon, May 6, 2024 at 3:52 PM Romain Manni-Bucau
> wrote:
>
> >
.
I don't see a case in between since user is not able to consume it.
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
<https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog
<http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github <https://github.com/rman
Tamas, the extension can inject the configuration which is instantiated
when the mojo will be executed.
At startup it does not need to be there, so there is no issue there while
you resolve the plugin dependency you inject from the extension in
afterModelRead normally.
Romain Manni-Bucau
rs and end users - to redo an extension
concurrent for other needs than the previous one
So ultimately I think this is not an issue we need to address even if any
use case can get multiple solutions, a single one is often the best
compromise for everyone.
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://
- exactly like shade plugin references its
transformers to be concrete.
So for me nothing to create nor modify to get an old feature.
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
<https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog
<http://rmannibucau.wordpres
e the maven 4
project and make it maven 3 friendly automatically (can be a x-maven-plugin
downloading x-v3 or x-v4 subartifact for the runtime, not sexy internally
but very smooth in terms of usage).
Best,
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
<https://rma
+1
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> | Blog
<https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog
<http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github <https://github.com/rmannibucau> |
LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> |
java-sdk
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Andres
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Java Champion; Groovy Enthusiast
> > > https://andresalmiray.com
> > > https://www.linkedin.com/in/aalmiray
> > > --
&
about us making it obvious it will fail but
I think it will be fixed for the final GA release.
So from my small window there is no concern even if most of us using
central outside the asf will be impacted sometime next year probably.
Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rma
+1
Le lun. 22 avr. 2024 à 05:30, Olivier Lamy a écrit :
> +1
>
> On Sun, 21 Apr 2024 at 01:54, Hervé Boutemy wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > We solved 3 issues:
> >
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ReleaseNote.jspa?projectId=12317921&version=12354342&styleName=Text
> >
> > Staging repo:
> > h
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