- Original Message -
From: "Anthony Campbell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: a modest proposal - Debian needs more $
> On 12 Feb 2002, Roderick Cummings wrote:
> > >From: Nathan E Norman <[EMAIL P
On 12 Feb 2002, Roderick Cummings wrote:
> >From: Nathan E Norman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> >Subject: Re: a modest proposal - Debian needs more $
> >Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:21:27 -0600
> >
>
> I assume the reason why U
On Tue, 2002-02-12 at 14:18, Roderick Cummings wrote:
> I assume the reason why US-based people have it easy when they make
> donations is because the treasurer is in the US. For whatever the reason, I
> say rather than force debian to build some complicated financial structure,
> people who don
From: Nathan E Norman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: a modest proposal - Debian needs more $
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:21:27 -0600
I assume the reason why US-based people have it easy when they make
donations is because the treasurer is in the U
On 22 Jan 2002, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 11:46:45AM +, Anthony Campbell wrote:
> > I'd be more than happy to make a contribution to Debian, but how do I do
> > that from Britain?
>
> http://www.spi-inc.org/donations explains how to make donations from
> Europe (there's a b
Colin Watson wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 11:46:45AM +, Anthony Campbell wrote:
> > I'd be more than happy to make a contribution to Debian, but how do I do
> > that from Britain?
>
> http://www.spi-inc.org/donations explains how to make donations from
> Europe (there's a bank account i
On Tue, 22 Jan 2002 03:50:24 -0800, ben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Monday 21 January 2002 12:05 pm, dman wrote:
> [snip]
> > When I first saw your subject in my log (before I looked at the
> > mailbox itself) I was expecting a really funny and outrageous story
> > containing a real suggestion
On Tue, 2002-01-22 at 02:02, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach dman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.22.0251 +0100]:
> > No, no, no. Not "one out of thirty", "thirty out of one" :-).
>
> shit, you got me ::hides under table::. now you may call me dyslexic.
Ah, but that would be disnumerate...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Monday 21 January 2002 8:59 pm, Aaron Traas wrote:
> I have an interesting counter-proposal.
>
I think you should read
http://tuxedo.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/homesteading/
(again if you have already) - especially chapter 6
I think Debia
On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:07:21 -0800
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > "dman" == dman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> dman> | I find it annoying that I can buy a Debian CD for $3.00 + shipping.
> dman> | It should be more.
>
> dman> This is an easy problem to solve! Mail me a (valid) chec
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 08:35:35AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Debian fans,
>
> I have the following modest proposal :
>
> Debian should start charging for high-speed apt-get/dselect/whatever
> downloads from it's sites. 56k is free, anything faster you pay for.
> Then we can pay people
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Then I guess I should join that team instead of tying up the mailing
> list with silly ideas.
>
> Brian
---
Hi Brian. I think you finally may see the truth of Debian and Linux in
general. If you feel like something just must be done to help t
On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 05:48:25AM -0500, Tom Allison wrote:
| dman wrote:
|
| >On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 12:49:42AM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
| >| also sprach nate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.2352 +0100]:
| >| > but i too wouldn't mind a pay download service ..seems
| >| > in recent months
On Monday 21 January 2002 02:52 pm, nate wrote:
> > And people who download ISO's to sell should be paying a LOT.
>
> i'd like to see ISO images that have nothing more then
> boot/root+base. they'd be maybe 20-30MB a piece ...
> i download the ISOs soley to install without floppies
> i rarely insta
On Monday 21 January 2002 12:59 pm, Aaron Traas wrote:
> I have an interesting counter-proposal.
>
> Everyone on this list probably uses debian in one way or another. A few
> of us, myself included, have a little extra cash which we could give the
> project.
>
> Why don't we borrow an old tradition
On Monday 21 January 2002 12:07 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
ultmately, it ceases to matter what [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote. briand,
you're missing the point. debian is a philosophy, and an exercise of human
will that trancends notions of property. whatever debian can ever be said to
be depends on
On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 11:46:45AM +, Anthony Campbell wrote:
> I'd be more than happy to make a contribution to Debian, but how do I do
> that from Britain?
http://www.spi-inc.org/donations explains how to make donations from
Europe (there's a bank account in Germany to which money transfers
On Monday 21 January 2002 12:05 pm, dman wrote:
[snip]
> When I first saw your subject in my log (before I looked at the
> mailbox itself) I was expecting a really funny and outrageous story
> containing a real suggestion buried in it. The subject reminds me of
> the essay "A Modest Proposal" (may
On 22 Jan 2002, martin f krafft wrote:
>
[snip]
> what i don't understand is why people always need other people to go
> along. are you scared to be on your own when facing debian's treasurer?
> i'll hold your hand. are you to insecure, or more talk then action? then
> here's a tip: take out your
dman wrote:
On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 12:49:42AM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
| also sprach nate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.2352 +0100]:
| > but i too wouldn't mind a pay download service ..seems
| > in recent months most of the fast U.S. debian mirrors
| > have gone away. or maybe its just
also sprach Aaron Traas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.22.0422 +0100]:
> The reason I propose this is for people like me who really don't think
> of it much. I'm terrible at remembering to do regular things, while at
> the same time, I'd like to give, say, $200 or so a year to Debian. I
> just never
> Have you ever tried ftp.redhat.com? Commercial... 0 bandwidth.
>
> 10-20 is still not bad - remember the days when it cost per hour
> and you got 3 kb/s and disconnected all the time?
redhat. ugh. their mirror system is so broken and their
bandwidth so out of whack its not funny. though they
martin f krafft wrote:
>
> also sprach Aaron Traas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.2159 +0100]:
> > Why don't we borrow an old tradition: voluntary tithe. For Debian users,
> > a suggested donation schedule could be made, such as $2.00 USD per
> > month, per Debian box if apt-get (or deselect, etc
martin f krafft wrote:
> > This would make it simple/automatic to periodically donate small
> > amounts of cash, for anyone who is too forgetful to do so on a
> > regular basis. At the same time, it would be an entirely opt-in
> > thing, so people who do not have the money/do not wish to donat
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 02:52:19PM -0800, nate wrote:
> but i too wouldn't mind a pay download service ..seems
> in recent months most of the fast U.S. debian mirrors
> have gone away. or maybe its just my providers.. usually
> 10-20kb/s once or twice i can get a site that can give
> 100+kb/s.
Hav
On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 03:02:09AM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
| also sprach dman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.22.0251 +0100]:
| > No, no, no. Not "one out of thirty", "thirty out of one" :-).
|
| shit, you got me ::hides under table::. now you may call me dyslexic.
| now it's 3am. i can't beli
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 05:00:12PM +, Karl E. Jorgensen wrote:
> > And people who download ISO's to sell should be paying a LOT.
>
> I'm not sure about this one. The ISO's that I have spotted for sale (in
> the UK) are quite cheap: About ?5 - ?20 for the full set, where the
> more expensive on
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 08:35:35AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Debian fans,
>
> I have the following modest proposal :
>
> Debian should start charging for high-speed apt-get/dselect/whatever
> downloads from it's sites. 56k is free, anything faster you pay for.
> Then we can pay people
also sprach dman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.22.0251 +0100]:
> No, no, no. Not "one out of thirty", "thirty out of one" :-).
shit, you got me ::hides under table::. now you may call me dyslexic.
now it's 3am. i can't believe i fell for this one. and all because i
tried hard to be funny.
dman, i
On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 02:42:39AM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
| also sprach dman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.22.0232 +0100]:
| > | trouble Debian did shield from you,
| >
| > Not quite what you meant here :-). How much damage would I have done
| > to the trouble? (correct phrase "trouble Deb
also sprach dman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.22.0232 +0100]:
> | trouble Debian did shield from you,
>
> Not quite what you meant here :-). How much damage would I have done
> to the trouble? (correct phrase "trouble Debian did shield you
> from"). It's ok, dyslexia strikes 30 out of 1, or so
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 12:07:21PM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
| > "dman" == dman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
| dman> | So I pay - then we immediately get into the tar-pit of why should I
| dman> | pay and no one else does.
|
| dman> 'cause you have extra dough to throw around and
On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 12:49:42AM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
| also sprach nate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.2352 +0100]:
| > but i too wouldn't mind a pay download service ..seems
| > in recent months most of the fast U.S. debian mirrors
| > have gone away. or maybe its just my providers..
Brian writes:
> And if they sell Debian CD's why aren't they _required_ to have a donation
> checkbox ?
How do you propose to go about "requiring" them?
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
also sprach [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.22.0126 +0100]:
> Yep - I suppose. Time will tell. Still going to use Debian. Still
> going to file bug reports. Still going to write checks (or use a
> credit card). Hope it's enough...
i'll accept credit card and relay to the debian
Brian writes:
> I find it annoying that I can buy a Debian CD for $3.00 + shipping. It
> should be more.
Nothing is stopping you from paying as much as you want to.
> Plus you just made my point - more will get done if we can hire people to
> work full time.
Who do you plan to hire?
> Why not
> "dman" == dman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
dman> When I first saw your subject in my log (before I looked at the
dman> mailbox itself) I was expecting a really funny and outrageous story
dman> containing a real suggestion buried in it. The subject reminds me of
Ouch - that hurt. So
Brian writes:
> I find it annoying that I can download an ISO and turn around and sell it
> and not have to give 1 monetary unit to Debian.
I don't, and I wrote some of the stuff in that ISO.
> I don't think it's reasonable.
I do. It costs me nothing when you download that ISO, and no one was a
also sprach [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.1946 +0100]:
> >> apt-get -u dist-upgrade, we aren't going to object. if you start
> >> charging, i am leaving, and i guarantee you that most every other
> >> developer will too.
>
> I'm still not clear on why you would. Please e
also sprach nate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.2352 +0100]:
> but i too wouldn't mind a pay download service ..seems
> in recent months most of the fast U.S. debian mirrors
> have gone away. or maybe its just my providers.. usually
> 10-20kb/s once or twice i can get a site that can give
> 100+kb
also sprach Aaron Traas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.2159 +0100]:
> Why don't we borrow an old tradition: voluntary tithe. For Debian users,
> a suggested donation schedule could be made, such as $2.00 USD per
> month, per Debian box if apt-get (or deselect, etc.) was used in that
> month. We co
also sprach [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.1944 +0100]:
> So I pay - then we immediately get into the tar-pit of why should I
> pay and no one else does. Something of a "tragedy of the commons"
> argument.
because you feel like Debian is worth paying for. it doesn't matter what
>
> And people who download ISO's to sell should be paying a LOT.
i'd like to see ISO images that have nothing more then
boot/root+base. they'd be maybe 20-30MB a piece ...
i download the ISOs soley to install without floppies
i rarely install files other then the base off CD.
but i too wouldn't
I have an interesting counter-proposal.
Everyone on this list probably uses debian in one way or another. A few
of us, myself included, have a little extra cash which we could give the
project.
Why don't we borrow an old tradition: voluntary tithe. For Debian users,
a suggested donation schedule
> "dman" == dman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
dman> | I find it annoying that I can buy a Debian CD for $3.00 + shipping.
dman> | It should be more.
dman> This is an easy problem to solve! Mail me a (valid) check for $1,000
dman> US and I'll mail you back a CD. :-)
LOL. yeah that
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 11:56:19AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Here is a somewhat off-topic question :
>
> You know all those nice CD vendors that have a donation checkbox for
> Debian. How do I know they are really donating the money ? And if
> they sell Debian CD's why aren't they _requi
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 11:56:19AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
| > "Colin" == Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
|
| Colin> /usr/share/doc/debian/debian-manifesto is a pretty good
| Colin> start. Debian is a distribution free in terms of both speech
| Colin> and beer. If we sta
> "Colin" == Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Colin> /usr/share/doc/debian/debian-manifesto is a pretty good
Colin> start. Debian is a distribution free in terms of both speech
Colin> and beer. If we start charging our users for downloading it,
Colin> we will be making the live
On Monday 21 January 2002 11:28 am, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 10:44:26AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > "martin" == martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > martin> go and pay. contribute, donate. speak to me if you want to
> > martin> know where to tur
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 10:44:26AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > "martin" == martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> martin> go and pay. contribute, donate. speak to me if you want to
> martin> know where to turn to. or any other developer. noone will
> martin> keep you from p
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 10:52:27AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I don't think it would be. I find it annoying that I can download an
> ISO and turn around and sell it and not have to give 1 monetary unit
> to Debian. I don't think it's reasonable.
It's completely reasonable. It's free softw
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 10:44:26AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
| I find it annoying that I can buy a Debian CD for $3.00 + shipping.
| It should be more.
This is an easy problem to solve! Mail me a (valid) check for $1,000
US and I'll mail you back a CD. :-)
| And remember nothing is stopp
Brian writes:
> Expand on why you think developers will leave, it's not obvious to me.
If Debian does as you suggest I will leave.
> If I pay someone to do unfun work others don't like doing wouldn't that
> be a positive thing ?
So go ahead and pay someone (me, for example). What's stopping you
> "Karl" == Karl E Jorgensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Karl> Hm. I thought that most of the debian servers ran on donated
Karl> hardware / bandwidth anyway. If I am correct, then I'm not
Karl> sure that it's right to=20 charge for it...
Natrually if you were charging then you'd start
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 10:21:34AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > "Colin" == Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Colin> Are you sure it isn't? You do that and I guarantee you most of the
> Colin> developers will leave.
>
> yes I'm sure it isn't.
OK.
> It may be in the course
Karl E. Jorgensen writes:
> I think that if anybody sold ISO's for profit (i.e. charged more than a
> reasonable cost price for download, cd, burning, packaging etc), then
> they would be in breach of the license.
On the contrary. It would be a breach of the DFSG to try to tell people
that they _
> "martin" == martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
martin> also sprach martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.1758
+0100]:
>> apt-get -u dist-upgrade, we aren't going to object. if you start
>> charging, i am leaving, and i guarantee you that most every other
>> develo
I think a careful reading of the following documents
might help in understanding the motivations behind the
debian project as a whole:
http://www.debian.org/intro/free
http://www.debian.org/social_contract
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > "Colin" == Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> writes:
> "martin" == martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
martin> --pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt
martin> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15
martin> Content-Disposition: inline
martin> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
martin> also sprach [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "J" == J A Serralheiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
J> Personaly, I think that working for fun on spare time gives the best
J> achievements, as that happend with my self. I dont state here that
I completely agree. Unfortunately that work will lean heavily towards
"interesting" things.
> "Colin" == Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Colin> On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 08:35:35AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> I have the following modest proposal :
>>
>> Debian should start charging for high-speed apt-get/dselect/whatever
>> downloads from it's sites. 56k is
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 08:35:35AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Debian fans,
>
> I have the following modest proposal :
>
> Debian should start charging for high-speed apt-get/dselect/whatever
> downloads from it's sites. 56k is free, anything faster you pay for.
> Then we can pay people
On 21-Jan-2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Debian fans,
>
> I have the following modest proposal :
>
> Debian should start charging for high-speed apt-get/dselect/whatever
> downloads from it's sites. 56k is free, anything faster you pay for.
> Then we can pay people to work on the not fun st
also sprach martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.1758 +0100]:
> apt-get -u dist-upgrade, we aren't going to object. if you start
> charging, i am leaving, and i guarantee you that most every other
> developer will too.
s/if you start/if we start/
> there are a lot of things that money
also sprach Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.1755 +0100]:
> From where I'm sitting, this goodwill seems only to be increasing.
anyone want to hire me to develop for debian? ;^>
--
martin; (greetings from the heart of the sun.)
\ echo mailto: !#^."<*>"|tr "<*> mailt
also sprach [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.1735 +0100]:
> Debian should start charging for high-speed apt-get/dselect/whatever
> downloads from it's sites. 56k is free, anything faster you pay for.
> Then we can pay people to work on the not fun stuff that needs doing.
>
> And p
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 04:54:22PM +, J.A.Serralheiro wrote:
> But somekind of non-monetary reward should be given.
Seeing people all over the world use software you've written and, once
in a while, thank you for it is an amazing reward in itself.
> If one day debian gets a little short in ca
Personaly, I think that working for fun on spare time gives the best
achievements, as that happend with my self. I dont state here that
developers should work harder. NOT AT ALL. But somekind of non-monetary
reward should be given. Even if some take advantage of others work, what
debian and free s
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 08:35:35AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have the following modest proposal :
>
> Debian should start charging for high-speed apt-get/dselect/whatever
> downloads from it's sites. 56k is free, anything faster you pay for.
> Then we can pay people to work on the not f
Debian fans,
I have the following modest proposal :
Debian should start charging for high-speed apt-get/dselect/whatever
downloads from it's sites. 56k is free, anything faster you pay for.
Then we can pay people to work on the not fun stuff that needs doing.
And people who download ISO's to s
70 matches
Mail list logo
