Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

Quoting Andrew McGlashan (andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au): > > > On 1/09/2015 11:08 PM, The Wanderer wrote: > >> > west!david 12:22:14 ~ $ diff -U0 VC-login-*[ey] > >> > --- VC-login-jessie 2015-08-31 11:34:23.476573261 -0500 > >> > +++ VC-login-wheezy 2015-08-31 11:38:11.

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 9/4/15, do...@mail.com wrote: > On 08/30/2015 17:49:31,Doug wrote: >> On 08/30/2015 03:33 PM, T.J. Duchene wrote: >> > I know this because I have actually built 95% of base Linux from >> > source by hand - multiple times - over the last 17 years. In my >> > opinion, if you don't want to take

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 08/30/2015 17:49:31,Doug wrote: > On 08/30/2015 03:33 PM, T.J. Duchene wrote: > > I know this because I have actually built 95% of base Linux from > > source by hand - multiple times - over the last 17 years. In my > > opinion, if you don't want to take the effort to do the work, then > > you

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 2015-09-03, David Wright wrote: >> >> Interesting things which I discovered with the trials: >> Typing Ctrl-- reduces the console fontsize in konsole (KDE) and typing >> Ctrl-+ >> magnifies the console fontsize. >> It is the same no matter if using German layout or US layout. > > Fair enough

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

Quoting Eike Lantzsch (zp6...@gmx.net): > On Thursday 03 September 2015 15:09:12 Curt wrote: > > On 2015-09-02, Nicolas George wrote: > > > For me, Ctrl-AltGr-) gives ^] as expected, both with XTerm and the > > > Linux console. > > > > Me too. > Not me > The Ctrl-AltGr level is not populated in m

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Thursday 03 September 2015 19:35:08 Nicolas George wrote: > Le septidi 17 fructidor, an CCXXIII, Eike Lantzsch a écrit : > > Not me > > The Ctrl-AltGr level is not populated in my keyboard map. > > It does not necessarily needs to. > > > Interesting things which I discovered with the trials: >

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

Le septidi 17 fructidor, an CCXXIII, Eike Lantzsch a écrit : > Not me > The Ctrl-AltGr level is not populated in my keyboard map. It does not necessarily needs to. > Interesting things which I discovered with the trials: > Typing Ctrl-- reduces the console fontsize in konsole (KDE) and typing Ctr

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Thursday 03 September 2015 15:09:12 Curt wrote: > On 2015-09-02, Nicolas George wrote: > > For me, Ctrl-AltGr-) gives ^] as expected, both with XTerm and the > > Linux console. > > Me too. Not me The Ctrl-AltGr level is not populated in my keyboard map. Intl-keyboard with German layout and dea

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 2015-09-02, Nicolas George wrote: > > For me, Ctrl-AltGr-) gives ^] as expected, both with XTerm and the > Linux console. Me too.

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

Quoting Seeker (seeker5...@comcast.net): > Some of this may have to be revisited later once more people actually > use it and have that first hand exposure to what works and what doesn't. ... > There is an argument for an easier key combination, but how do you > make it more accessible for people

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 3:57 AM, Andrew McGlashan < andrew.mcglas...@affinityvision.com.au> wrote: > On 1/09/2015 3:08 AM, pecon...@mesanetworks.net wrote: > > If you want to exit the shell normally, typically the 'exit' command > > will suffice (it depends on your shell, obviously). > > And if, fo

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 2/09/2015 12:11 AM, Joel Rees wrote: > Which, I am afraid, puts you in the pattern of those who defend the > approach the cabal has taken. > > (Concerning the use of "cabal": > > http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html > > Although I'm not really sure they u

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 1/09/2015 11:08 PM, The Wanderer wrote: >> > west!david 12:22:14 ~ $ diff -U0 VC-login-*[ey] >> > --- VC-login-jessie 2015-08-31 11:34:23.476573261 -0500 >> > +++ VC-login-wheezy 2015-08-31 11:38:11.0 -0500 > How did you get these files? I haven't been able to come up with a wa

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 1/09/2015 3:08 AM, pecon...@mesanetworks.net wrote: > If you want to exit the shell normally, typically the 'exit' command > will suffice (it depends on your shell, obviously). And if, for some reason, you can't exit a shell normally; but you can login again in a different session, then you can

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 31/08/2015 10:33 PM, The Wanderer wrote: > Agreed. For what it's worth, I don't think this particular > iteration of the discussion has gotten nearly as heated or as > hostile or as harmful as many of the previous ones have done. Perhaps it is si

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Thursday 03 September 2015 06:45:55 Seeker wrote: > On 9/2/2015 3:25 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote: > > On Wednesday 02 September 2015 09:09:45 Seeker wrote: > >> Unless you have set keyboard settings somewhere to have an excessively > >> slow repeat, > >> as opposed to a longer delay before the repeat k

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 9/2/2015 3:23 AM, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: On Wed, 2 Sep 2015 01:09:45 -0700 Seeker wrote: > >> To exit the shell created with "machinectl shell", you are instructed "Press ^] three times within 1s to exit session." That is very unfriendly for disabled. Not all can hit any key in 1 s

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 9/2/2015 3:25 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Wednesday 02 September 2015 09:09:45 Seeker wrote: Unless you have set keyboard settings somewhere to have an excessively slow repeat, as opposed to a longer delay before the repeat kicks in, theoretically it should not be that hard to get 3 ^]s in 1 s

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 09/02/2015 10:54 PM, The Wanderer wrote: On 2015-09-02 at 20:15, Ric Moore wrote: On 09/02/2015 10:27 AM, Joel Rees wrote: On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 10:38 PM, Ric Moore wrote: Just pointing out the innuendo. :) Ric I think you're all all wet! Innuendo is Italian for enema. --doug

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 2015-09-02 at 20:15, Ric Moore wrote: > On 09/02/2015 10:27 AM, Joel Rees wrote: > >> On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 10:38 PM, Ric Moore >> wrote: >>> Just pointing out the innuendo. :) Ric >> >> To which I have to say, either you're inventing an innuendo that >> wasn't there, I think he may have

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 09/02/2015 10:27 AM, Joel Rees wrote: On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 10:38 PM, Ric Moore wrote: On 09/01/2015 10:27 PM, Joel Rees wrote: 2015/09/02 1:04 "Ric Moore" mailto:wayward4...@gmail.com>>: > > On 08/31/2015 11:36 AM, The Wanderer wrote: > >> One, I said that he "_does_ seem to [...

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 2015-09-02 at 11:07, Joel Rees wrote: > Steve mentioned (off-list, was it?) that an OS without systemd is > (relatively speaking) not that hard to switch a new init under, > where an OS with systemd is significantly more difficult. I don't remember that post, and I'm not even sure which Steve

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 4:54 AM, T. J. Duchene wrote: > Sorry had an issue that caused a premature post before I could > finish it. Happens to all of us every now and then, I think. > On Tue, 1 Sep 2015 23:11:51 +0900 > Joel Rees wrote: > >> There is a difference between what I asked and what yo

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 10:38 PM, Ric Moore wrote: > On 09/01/2015 10:27 PM, Joel Rees wrote: >> >> 2015/09/02 1:04 "Ric Moore" > >: >> > >> > On 08/31/2015 11:36 AM, The Wanderer wrote: >> > >> >> One, I said that he "_does_ seem to [...] have zero sympathy or >>

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 09/01/2015 10:27 PM, Joel Rees wrote: 2015/09/02 1:04 "Ric Moore" mailto:wayward4...@gmail.com>>: > > On 08/31/2015 11:36 AM, The Wanderer wrote: > >> One, I said that he "_does_ seem to [...] have zero sympathy or respect >> in practice for" those things. > > > How would that be diffe

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

Le sextidi 16 fructidor, an CCXXIII, Renaud OLGIATI a écrit : > Except that on my AZERTY keyboard 'Ctrl'+'Alt'+')' gets me nothing at all. > > To get "]" I have to press "AltGr" + ")", which may explain why "Ctrl" + > "AltGr" + ")" gives nothing. For me, Ctrl-AltGr-) gives ^] = 0x1D as expected

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Wed, 2 Sep 2015 01:09:45 -0700 Seeker wrote: > >> To exit the shell created with "machinectl shell", you are instructed > >> "Press ^] three times within 1s to exit session." That is very > >> unfriendly for disabled. Not all can hit any key in 1 second. To > >> specify two keys is even harde

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Wednesday 02 September 2015 09:09:45 Seeker wrote: > Unless you have set keyboard settings somewhere to have an excessively > slow repeat, > as opposed to a longer delay before the repeat kicks in, theoretically > it should not be > that hard to get 3 ^]s in 1 second. > > Or am I interpreting so

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 8/31/2015 12:45 PM, Erwan David wrote: Le 31/08/2015 20:53, Charlie Kravetz a écrit : To exit the shell created with "machinectl shell", you are instructed "Press ^] three times within 1s to exit session." That is very unfriendly for disabled. Not all can hit any key in 1 second. To specify

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

2015/09/02 1:04 "Ric Moore" : > > On 08/31/2015 11:36 AM, The Wanderer wrote: > >> One, I said that he "_does_ seem to [...] have zero sympathy or respect >> in practice for" those things. > > > How would that be different from "he does seem to prefer underage girls"? :0 Ric Are you really trying

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

Sorry had an issue that caused a premature post before I could finish it. On Tue, 1 Sep 2015 23:11:51 +0900 Joel Rees wrote: > > There is a difference between what I asked and what you're telling me. > > Simply tweaking and recompiling debian or redhat is not what I'm > asking about, althou

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

Quoting The Wanderer (wande...@fastmail.fm): > On 2015-08-31 at 13:25, David Wright wrote: > > Here's a > > comparison of my (admittedly rather noisy) VC login on two systems: > > > > west!david 12:22:14 ~ $ diff -U0 VC-login-*[ey] > > --- VC-login-jessie 2015-08-31 11:34:23.476573261 -0500

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 09/01/2015 09:11 AM, Joel Rees wrote: I'm asking if you have built an OS from scratch, including the userland tools and apps, for a specific, non-trivial purpose. That depends. If you consider using LFS to be the only answer you will accept, then "No", since as I said, I have never used

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 08/31/2015 11:36 AM, The Wanderer wrote: One, I said that he "_does_ seem to [...] have zero sympathy or respect in practice for" those things. How would that be different from "he does seem to prefer underage girls"? :0 Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: "There are two Gr

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 08/31/2015 08:43 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 08:33:40AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote: On 2015-08-31 at 03:47, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: Slinging mud at people never helps: Lennart Poettering isn't out there "to get us" -- he

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Sep 01, 2015 at 10:07:28AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote: > On 2015-09-01 at 09:58, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: [...] > > As long as "we" use up our spare cycles bickering, nothing will get > > done :-) > > I actually use up most of my "spare cycles

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 5:03 AM, T.J. Duchene wrote: > > On 08/31/2015 05:14 AM, Joel Rees wrote: >> >> Actually, there's a couple or three questions going begging here, that >> I'd like to ask: > > Sure, ask away! =) > >> >> (1) TJ, have you ever built LFS? Or, even better, built a running OS >> o

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 2015-09-01 at 09:58, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Tue, Sep 01, 2015 at 09:16:10AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote: > >> On 2015-09-01 at 07:38, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > >>> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:36:26AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote: > > [...] > >>> I ask because I'd like myself and I'd like to

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Sep 01, 2015 at 09:16:10AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote: > On 2015-09-01 at 07:38, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:36:26AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote: [...] > > I ask because I'd like myself and I'd like to get an idea w

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

Am 01.09.2015 um 15:08 schrieb The Wanderer: > [ 123.134567] systemd-logind[1234]: Failed to start user service: > Unknown unit: user@1000.service > Note that this is on a system with only some parts of "the systemd > suite" present, and with systemd _not_ running as PID1. (I apologize for > no

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 2015-09-01 at 07:38, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:36:26AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote: > >> On 2015-08-31 at 10:49, Christian Seiler wrote: >> >>> On 08/31/2015 02:33 PM, The Wanderer wrote: > > [...] > >> The Subject line is an overstatement, yes, but it's not an >> e

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 2015-08-31 at 13:25, David Wright wrote: > Quoting The Wanderer (wande...@fastmail.fm): > >> Debian could not have chosen systemd if Lennart had not written it, >> and Debian could not have chosen systemd-in-its-current-form if >> Lennart had not designed it in that form, so some layer of the

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:36:26AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote: > On 2015-08-31 at 10:49, Christian Seiler wrote: > > > On 08/31/2015 02:33 PM, The Wanderer wrote: [...] > The Subject line is an overstatement, yes, but it's not an entirely > baseless

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

-- Paul E Condon pecon...@mesanetworks.net --- christ...@iwakd.de wrote: From: Christian Seiler To: Lisi Reisz , debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Another system management tool to disappear. Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:43:00 +0200 On 08/31/2015 05:48 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 08/31/2015 05:14 AM, Joel Rees wrote: Actually, there's a couple or three questions going begging here, that I'd like to ask: Sure, ask away! =) (1) TJ, have you ever built LFS? Or, even better, built a running OS on top of the Linux kernel without even the help of the LFS tutorial and

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

Le 31/08/2015 20:53, Charlie Kravetz a écrit : > On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 19:42:20 +0200 > Nicolas George wrote: > >> Le quartidi 14 fructidor, an CCXXIII, Lisi Reisz a écrit : What are you talking about? The command to start the shell, or the key sequence to exit it? >>> Using su to change u

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 19:42:20 +0200 Nicolas George wrote: >Le quartidi 14 fructidor, an CCXXIII, Lisi Reisz a écrit : >> > What are you talking about? The command to start the shell, or the key >> > sequence to exit it? >> Using su to change user. > >Then I do not agree with your statement that "m

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Mon 31 Aug 2015 at 19:42:18 +0100, Brian wrote: > Yet more advocacy to add to the 3,200+ posts we have in -user. Only > about 1.5% of them are from the OP but he is trying hard to get up to > 2%. :) That bit was incorrect. The 1.5% is for the OP's sycophantic responder. The OP is only on about

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

Hi. On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 19:40:54 +0100 Lisi Reisz wrote: > On Monday 31 August 2015 19:27:31 Reco wrote: > > Hi. > > > > On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:25:09 +0100 > > > > Lisi Reisz wrote: > > > On Monday 31 August 2015 16:59:48 Nicolas George wrote: > > > > Le quartidi 14 fructidor, an CCXXIII, Lis

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Mon 31 Aug 2015 at 11:36:26 -0400, The Wanderer wrote: > The Subject line is an overstatement, yes, but it's not an entirely > baseless one. Consider: The power of language! What is clearly a distortion of the situation related at https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/825 becomes an "o

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Monday 31 August 2015 19:27:31 Reco wrote: > Hi. > > On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:25:09 +0100 > > Lisi Reisz wrote: > > On Monday 31 August 2015 16:59:48 Nicolas George wrote: > > > Le quartidi 14 fructidor, an CCXXIII, Lisi Reisz a écrit : > > > > For those who have still not discovered, you have t

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

Le 31/08/2015 20:27, Reco a écrit : > Hi. > > On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:25:09 +0100 > Lisi Reisz wrote: > >> On Monday 31 August 2015 16:59:48 Nicolas George wrote: >>> Le quartidi 14 fructidor, an CCXXIII, Lisi Reisz a écrit : For those who have still not discovered, you have to press ^ three

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

Hi. On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:25:09 +0100 Lisi Reisz wrote: > On Monday 31 August 2015 16:59:48 Nicolas George wrote: > > Le quartidi 14 fructidor, an CCXXIII, Lisi Reisz a écrit : > > > For those who have still not discovered, you have to press ^ three times > > > in succession inside a second. >

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

Hi. On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 19:42:20 +0200 Nicolas George wrote: > Le quartidi 14 fructidor, an CCXXIII, Lisi Reisz a écrit : > > > What are you talking about? The command to start the shell, or the key > > > sequence to exit it? > > Using su to change user. > > Then I do not agree with your state

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

Le quartidi 14 fructidor, an CCXXIII, Lisi Reisz a écrit : > Then I have misunderstood, which does not surprise me. With all the disinformation flying around when it comes to systemd, it is hardly surprising. > What is the alternative to su that there is so much fuss about? And I don't > care

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

Le quartidi 14 fructidor, an CCXXIII, Lisi Reisz a écrit : > > What are you talking about? The command to start the shell, or the key > > sequence to exit it? > Using su to change user. Then I do not agree with your statement that "machinectl shell" is less disability-friendly than su, quite the c

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Monday 31 August 2015 18:12:44 Nicolas George wrote: > What are you talking about? The command to start the shell, or the key > sequence to exit it? Using su to change user. Lisi

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

Quoting The Wanderer (wande...@fastmail.fm): > Debian could not have chosen systemd if Lennart had not written it, and > Debian could not have chosen systemd-in-its-current-form if Lennart had > not designed it in that form, so some layer of the blame does fall on > him. That's a very interesting

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Monday 31 August 2015 16:59:48 Nicolas George wrote: > Le quartidi 14 fructidor, an CCXXIII, Lisi Reisz a écrit : > > For those who have still not discovered, you have to press ^ three times > > in succession inside a second. > > > > https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/ > > Are you referring t

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Monday 31 August 2015 18:08:21 pecon...@mesanetworks.net wrote: > On a jessie system, I can interrupt an Emacs file edit session with cntrlZ. > My only self acknowledged disabilities are mild loss of cognitive function > and frequent finger fumbles at the keyboard, so I don't know what a person

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

Le quartidi 14 fructidor, an CCXXIII, Lisi Reisz a écrit : > Su is _much_ easier to type, and there is no restrictive time limit on how > long you can take typing it. > > the illustration shows moving from user to root. $ to # > > It is, as I said, very disability unfriendly. su is not. What a

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Monday 31 August 2015 17:43:00 Christian Seiler wrote: > On 08/31/2015 05:48 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote: > > On Monday 31 August 2015 16:36:26 The Wanderer wrote: > >> Lennart's proposed alternative (to su) > > > > After all this discussion, I thought that I ought really to find out what > > Lennart w

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 08/31/2015 05:48 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote: > On Monday 31 August 2015 16:36:26 The Wanderer wrote: >> Lennart's proposed alternative (to su) > > After all this discussion, I thought that I ought really to find out what > Lennart was proposing, and I must say that it looks remarkably > disability-

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 08/31/2015 05:36 PM, The Wanderer wrote: > Two, I base this assessment on the things he has said and the ways in > which he has reacted when people have objected to various of the things > he has done - on his public comments and discussion, I get the opposite impression, that's why I responded

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

Le quartidi 14 fructidor, an CCXXIII, Lisi Reisz a écrit : > For those who have still not discovered, you have to press ^ three times in > succession inside a second. > > https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/ Are you referring to that snippet: # Connected to the local host. Press ^] three time

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Monday 31 August 2015 16:36:26 The Wanderer wrote: > Lennart's proposed alternative (to su) After all this discussion, I thought that I ought really to find out what Lennart was proposing, and I must say that it looks remarkably disability-unfriendly. :-( For those who have still not discove

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 2015-08-31 at 10:49, Christian Seiler wrote: > On 08/31/2015 02:33 PM, The Wanderer wrote: > >> Also, while I agree that Lennart is not out "to get us" in the >> sense of malicious laughter and diabolical plans, he _does_ seem to >> outright reject some principles which have been valued in the

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 08/31/2015 02:33 PM, The Wanderer wrote: > Also, while I agree that Lennart is not out "to get us" in the sense of > malicious laughter and diabolical plans, he _does_ seem to outright > reject some principles which have been valued in the free-software world > for decades, to want to see those

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 08:33:40AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote: > On 2015-08-31 at 03:47, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > Slinging mud at people never helps: Lennart Poettering isn't out > > there "to get us" -- he's writing free software. He deserves to be

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 2015-08-31 at 03:47, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 11:19:12PM +0200, Christian Seiler wrote: > > Disclaimer: I totally dislike systemd. I'll try to do what it takes > to enjoy a systemd-free Debian. I'm not going to discuss the whys and > hows -- tne Nets are already full

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 2015-08-31 at 00:39, T.J. Duchene wrote: > On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 10:49 PM, Doug > wrote: >> What we would like is stability, and until Poettering started >> messing with Linux, we pretty much had it--at least in any given >> distro. > > That's where we part in agreement. You can't blame P

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 1:39 PM, T.J. Duchene wrote: > > On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 10:49 PM, Doug wrote: >> >> That's easy for you to say, since you are obviously a programmer. The rest >> of us may never have programmed anything, and C just looks like some foreign >> language --which it is! > > >

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 11:19:12PM +0200, Christian Seiler wrote: Disclaimer: I totally dislike systemd. I'll try to do what it takes to enjoy a systemd-free Debian. I'm not going to discuss the whys and hows -- tne Nets are already full of that. That

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 08/30/2015 03:33 PM, T.J. Duchene wrote: On 08/30/2015 02:44 PM, The Wanderer wrote: On 2015-08-30 at 15:08, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: Sadly, considering the effort that has been spent (wasted ?) developing systemd, the only fix would be to avoid adopting it, or later to get rid of it

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 08/30/2015 05:00 PM, Andrew McGlashan wrote: > On 29/08/2015 8:49 AM, T.J. Duchene wrote: > Really? Just because you disagree with somebody, their opinion is "rubbish"? > Read Lennart's own blog, you'll see that he is "in the business" of > making Linux his own; thus my coined phrase "Lennart

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 2015-08-30 at 15:08, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: > On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 13:56:18 -0500 "T.J. Duchene" > wrote: > >> If you really have a problem with systemd's design, why don't you >> take the source, fix it and submit the patch? > > Sadly, considering the effort that has been spent (wasted

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 13:56:18 -0500 "T.J. Duchene" wrote: > If you really have a problem with systemd's design, why don't you take > the source, fix it and submit the patch? Sadly, considering the effort that has been spent (wasted ?) developing systemd, the only fix would be to avoid adopting

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 04:35:46 +1000 Andrew McGlashan wrote: > The person whom speaks up against systemd is typically [and most > certainly erroneously] considered a troll. We are allowed to have an > opinion, even though expressing it is demonized by the pro systemd crowd. Common phenomenon: It

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 31/08/2015 1:24 AM, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: > On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 01:00:27 +1000 > Andrew McGlashan wrote: > >> And ANYONE whom speaks against systemd is, quite simply, just like one >> who utters the name Voldermort in the Harry Potter story. Both are >> just as evil, but one is purely

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 01:00:27 +1000 Andrew McGlashan wrote: > And ANYONE whom speaks against systemd is, quite simply, just like one > who utters the name Voldermort in the Harry Potter story. Both are > just as evil, but one is purely fictional. With due respect, m'lud, it is not he who is evil

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 29/08/2015 8:49 AM, T.J. Duchene wrote: Lennart is the /main/ reason systemd exists; vocal or not. The linux kernel is bloated, it shouldn't be as large IMHO either. It too goes against the "*NIX" way Read Lennart's own blog, you'll see t

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 12:16 AM, Renaud OLGIATI wrote: > Systemd-Linux to get rid of su: > > https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/ > > Is this a trend to make _all_ the GNU-Linux tools disappear, and have > _everything_ > incorporated into systemd ? > > Cheers, > > Ron. My interpretation of t

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 8:23 PM, claude juif wrote: > > > 2015-08-29 13:35 GMT+02:00 Joel Rees : >> >> On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 12:25 AM, claude juif >> wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > 2015-08-28 17:16 GMT+02:00 Renaud OLGIATI >> > : >> >> >> >> Systemd-Linux to get rid of su: >> >> >> >> https://tlhp.c

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Reco wrote: > Hi. > > On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 20:30:58 -0400 > Gene Heskett wrote: > >> On Saturday 29 August 2015 10:39:07 Reco wrote: >> >> > Hi. >> > >> > On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 09:49:55 -0400 >> > >> > Gene Heskett wrote: >> > > > > If su goes away, IMNSHO, it wil

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Sunday 30 August 2015 04:47:10 Reco wrote: > Hi. > > On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 20:30:58 -0400 > > Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Saturday 29 August 2015 10:39:07 Reco wrote: > > > Hi. > > > > > > On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 09:49:55 -0400 > > > > > > Gene Heskett wrote: > > > > > > If su goes away, IMNSHO, i

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

2015-08-29 13:35 GMT+02:00 Joel Rees : > On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 12:25 AM, claude juif > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > 2015-08-28 17:16 GMT+02:00 Renaud OLGIATI < > ren...@olgiati-in-paraguay.org>: > >> > >> Systemd-Linux to get rid of su: > >> > >> https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/ > >> > >> Is th

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 08:30:58PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: [...] > Installed it, suid problems: > > gene@coyote:~$ busybox su amanda > su: must be suid to work properly > gene@coyote:~$ busybox su - > su: must be suid to work properly > > Is it

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Saturday 29 August 2015 10:39:07 Reco wrote: > Hi. > > On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 09:49:55 -0400 > > Gene Heskett wrote: > > > > If su goes away, IMNSHO, it will be such a PITA that it will > > > > encourage far more people to just give up and run their machines > > > > as root full time. And I don

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 2015-08-29, Reco wrote: >> >> https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/busybox >> >> Spooned. > > https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/busybox-static > > 'busybox' in Debian is dynamically-linked, which kind of defeats the > purpose of the busybox. So - 'busybox-static'. > > Reco Ah ok.

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

Hi. On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 09:49:55 -0400 Gene Heskett wrote: > > > If su goes away, IMNSHO, it will be such a PITA that it will > > > encourage far more people to just give up and run their machines as > > > root full time. And I don't believe for a millisecond that is the > > > effect intended.

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 14:27:37 + (UTC) Curt wrote: > On 2015-08-29, Gene Heskett wrote: > >> > >> If it comes to this (i.e 'su' will go away) - I just use busybox > >> (which has perfectly working implementation of su without the fancy > >> bits). I.e. > >> > >> busybox su - > > > > Command no

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Saturday 29 August 2015 09:49:55 Gene Heskett wrote: > On Saturday 29 August 2015 09:24:52 Reco wrote: > > Hi. [...] > > Kind of old-fashioned for my taste (I'd use 'sudo -u' in the first > > place), but perfectly sane approach. > > ISTR I read that someplace, tried it, but it needed a root

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Saturday 29 August 2015 09:29:47 Brian wrote: > On Sat 29 Aug 2015 at 08:55:00 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > > [Snip] > > > So, if su goes away, how do I accomplish those tasks in a suitable > > manner that will not bore a hole in the user sandbox? > > su is not going away. Please take no notic

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On 2015-08-29, Gene Heskett wrote: >> >> If it comes to this (i.e 'su' will go away) - I just use busybox >> (which has perfectly working implementation of su without the fancy >> bits). I.e. >> >> busybox su - > > Command not found. Wheezy 32 bit install. > https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/bus

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Saturday 29 August 2015 09:24:52 Reco wrote: > Hi. > > On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 08:55:00 -0400 > > Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Saturday 29 August 2015 06:18:56 Reco wrote: > > > Hi. > > > > > > On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 11:49:12 +1200 > > > > > > Chris Bannister wrote: > > > > On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 0

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Sat 29 Aug 2015 at 08:55:00 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: [Snip] > So, if su goes away, how do I accomplish those tasks in a suitable > manner that will not bore a hole in the user sandbox? su is not going away. Please take no notice of the misinformation being spread in the first post and rea

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

Hi. On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 08:55:00 -0400 Gene Heskett wrote: > On Saturday 29 August 2015 06:18:56 Reco wrote: > > > Hi. > > > > On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 11:49:12 +1200 > > > > Chris Bannister wrote: > > > On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 07:12:32PM +0300, Reco wrote: > > > > To: > > > > > > > > Well, there

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Saturday 29 August 2015 06:18:56 Reco wrote: > Hi. > > On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 11:49:12 +1200 > > Chris Bannister wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 07:12:32PM +0300, Reco wrote: > > > To: > > > > > > Well, there have been long discussions about this, but the problem > > > is that what "su" is su

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 12:25 AM, claude juif wrote: > Hi, > > 2015-08-28 17:16 GMT+02:00 Renaud OLGIATI : >> >> Systemd-Linux to get rid of su: >> >> https://tlhp.cf/lennart-poettering-su/ >> >> Is this a trend to make _all_ the GNU-Linux tools disappear, and have >> _everything_ >> incorporated

Re: Another system management tool to disappear.

Hi. On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 11:49:12 +1200 Chris Bannister wrote: > On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 07:12:32PM +0300, Reco wrote: > > To: > > > > Well, there have been long discussions about this, but the problem is > > that what "su" is supposed to do is very unclear. On one hand it's > > supposed *to op

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