Converting a running system to a VirtualBox VM

2013-03-02 Thread Marc Shapiro
I am currently running Sueeze on an AMD64 box. I hope to upgrade to Wheezy soon, but I have a problem: Citrix Receiver It runs fine on Squeeze using IA32-libs. There does not seem to be a native 64-bit version for linux. I decided I would install Wheezy, activate multi-arch for i386 and in

Re: RAID1 all bootable

2013-03-02 Thread Francesco Pietra
Hi Lennart, Hi Simon A proper understanding of mdadm is required. Hurrying with focus on codes for biochemical applications has brought me into a mess. Relying of all my data, and special compiled programs, present on another raid1 amd64 wheezy, I carried out a reinstall of amd64 wheezy on the ma

Re: Package Pre-dependencies

2013-03-02 Thread Joao Luis Meloni Assirati
> On 02-Mar-13 14:23, Joao Luis Meloni Assirati wrote: >> So, no. C does not pre-depend on B unless it is explictly stated in its >> Pre-depends field. Here is an example: >> >> bash ==(Depends)==> base-files ==(Pre-Depends)==> awk. >> > > Thanks - that's what I suspected but it wasn't entirely cle

Re: Two copies of E-Mail (Re: I wish to advocate linux)

2013-03-02 Thread David Guntner
Richard Hector grabbed a keyboard and wrote: > On 03/03/13 10:30, David Guntner wrote: >> I've worked at places where the attitude of management was along the >> lines of, "If you're going to come to me with a complaint about the way >> something is being done, provide a possible solution. Otherwi

Re: Two copies of E-Mail (Re: I wish to advocate linux)

2013-03-02 Thread Richard Hector
On 03/03/13 10:30, David Guntner wrote: > Actually, I am seeking no such thing. What I *am* saying, however, is > that if you (again, in the general sense, not necessarily specifically > you) are going to come at someone with a "that solution is no good for > reason X," then it's only polite to p

Re: Package Pre-dependencies

2013-03-02 Thread rbmj
On 02-Mar-13 14:23, Joao Luis Meloni Assirati wrote: So, no. C does not pre-depend on B unless it is explictly stated in its Pre-depends field. Here is an example: bash ==(Depends)==> base-files ==(Pre-Depends)==> awk. Thanks - that's what I suspected but it wasn't entirely clear when I was

Suggestions: Basic 15-band Audio Equilize

2013-03-02 Thread Patrick Bartek
Looking for a basic 15-band audio equalizer for Wheezy 64-bit that works with Pulseaudio.  No need to suggest Jack, et al.  I'm not doing any pro stuff.  Not even recording.  Just want to improve the sound from an inexpensive pair of Logitech speakers sitting on my desk.  On my old system--Fe

Re: Installation failed - and failed again...

2013-03-02 Thread Miles Fidelman
Mark Filipak wrote: On 2013/3/2 3:36 PM, Brian wrote:> On Sat 02 Mar 2013 at 13:24:06 -0500, Mark Filipak wrote: Observation: I'm struck by how some (many?) on this list tell me what I did (like I was asleep) and they're wrong. Please, pay attention... I did not make a substitution. 1 - I in

Re: Installation failed - and failed again...

2013-03-02 Thread Mark Filipak
On 2013/3/2 3:36 PM, Brian wrote:> On Sat 02 Mar 2013 at 13:24:06 -0500, Mark Filipak wrote: On 2013/3/2 12:37 PM, Joao Luis Meloni Assirati wrote: Exactly. Either it was a pertitioning problem, as pointed first by Lisi, and he does not want to admit; or some other random problem, and in this c

Re: Caldav client on Debian

2013-03-02 Thread Michael Biebl
On 01.03.2013 22:04, Mérof 42 wrote: > Hi, > > I'm using Owncloud since few month, but with the web interface calendar is > not really useful > I'm looking for a simple caldav client, but I can't find one. > > Do you have any idea which client can I use? > > I'm searching a simple client, not li

Re: Installation failed

2013-03-02 Thread Mark Filipak
On 2013/3/2 3:03 PM, Rob Owens wrote: On Fri, Mar 01, 2013 at 09:09:51PM -0500, Mark Filipak wrote: Miles, I'm running the Debian installer from a Debian Live USB. I don't try to install GRUB. The Debian installer does it. I don't provide command-line switches. The Debian installer provides w

Re: Installation failed

2013-03-02 Thread Antti Talsta
On Sat, Mar 02, 2013 at 03:03:25PM -0500, Rob Owens wrote: > I'd like to point out, for the benefit of those on this list and those > who might read this thread in the future, that Mark is attempting to > install Debian from a Debian Live USB. That is a detail that escaped me > until now. Boot

Re: Install failed - let's start again, without bogus assumptions, please.

2013-03-02 Thread Tom H
On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 11:36 PM, Shane Johnson wrote: > > Only thing I can think of I think Ubuntu has one but I don't know if it's > actually a installer or just lets your run the Distro live in Windows. It's called wubi [1]. I've never tried nor do I know what it actually does. [1] https://wik

Re: I wish to advocate linux --pclos from flash

2013-03-02 Thread Tom H
On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Doug wrote: > On 03/01/2013 12:13 PM, Tom H wrote: [You've snipped the history of the posters...] >> And there is always PCLinuxOS, which was originally designed expressly to >> make >> the transition to Linux easy for Windows users. I wasn't making an e

Re: I wish to advocate linux --pclos from flash

2013-03-02 Thread Tom H
On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 2:06 PM, Brian wrote: > On Fri 01 Mar 2013 at 12:38:25 -0500, Tom H wrote: >> >> If I had a non-work-supplied-totally-locked-down Windows installation, >> I'd try the Ubuntu solution for Debian (that application looked like >> it had a drop-down menu with a list of distribut

Re: How can I know which deb-multimedia packages I have installed?

2013-03-02 Thread Bob Proulx
Csanyi Pal wrote: > Bob Proulx writes: > > You can purge and re-install packages. But that may not be the same > > as a clean installation. It is much easier to simply create a clean > > chroot and install there. > > I created a clean chroot by running the following commands in a > directory cal

Re: Two copies of E-Mail (Re: I wish to advocate linux)

2013-03-02 Thread David Guntner
Brian grabbed a keyboard and wrote: > On Sat 02 Mar 2013 at 09:20:14 -0800, David Guntner wrote: > >> Brian grabbed a keyboard and wrote: >> >> And face it, the scenario you describe above is not one I (or a number >> of other people) are likely to run into all that often. Possible, sure. >> Prob

Re: Installation failed - and failed again...

2013-03-02 Thread Brian
On Sat 02 Mar 2013 at 13:24:06 -0500, Mark Filipak wrote: > On 2013/3/2 12:37 PM, Joao Luis Meloni Assirati wrote: > > > >Exactly. Either it was a pertitioning problem, as pointed first by Lisi, > >and he does not want to admit; or some other random problem, and in this > >case no one will never k

Freedesktop Application Icon / magic database

2013-03-02 Thread Felix Natter
hi, I am in the process of packaging Freeplane 1.2.x and am having problems with the icons being displayed under GNOME3 (classic, nautilus 3.4.2). Freeplane 1.2.x uses the file extension *.mm and the magic information (XML prefix) ' http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/shared-mime-info";>

Re: Installation failed

2013-03-02 Thread Cybe R. Wizard
On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 13:56:55 -0500 Mark Filipak wrote: > On 2013/3/2 11:26 AM, Cybe R. Wizard wrote: > > On Fri, 01 Mar 2013 19:03:14 -0500 > > Miles Fidelman wrote: > > > >> First off, I'm going to repeat: STOP SENDING TWO COPIES OF YOUR > >> EMAILS. It's simply rude. Reply to the list or not

Re: Two copies of E-Mail (Re: I wish to advocate linux)

2013-03-02 Thread Brian
On Sat 02 Mar 2013 at 09:20:14 -0800, David Guntner wrote: > Brian grabbed a keyboard and wrote: > > > > "Be strict in what you send and generous in what you receive" is still a > > good maxim to follow. > > I agree. And when I'm setting up a mail *server* (which typically > services the needs

Re: Installation failed

2013-03-02 Thread Rob Owens
On Fri, Mar 01, 2013 at 09:09:51PM -0500, Mark Filipak wrote: > > Miles, I'm running the Debian installer from a Debian Live USB. I don't try > to install GRUB. The Debian installer does it. I don't provide command-line > switches. The Debian installer provides whatever command-line switches it

Re: Package Pre-dependencies

2013-03-02 Thread Joao Luis Meloni Assirati
> Hello everyone, > > One quick question: If package A pre-depends on package B, and package > C depends on package A, does package C pre-depend on package B? > > In other words, is pre-depends transitive across regular dependencies? C ==(Depends)==> A ==(Pre-Depends)==> B As you stated the prob

Re: Installation failed - and failed again...

2013-03-02 Thread Mark Filipak
On 2013/3/2 1:58 PM, Joao Luis Meloni Assirati wrote: It was not a partitioning problem or some other random problem. There's a bug in the GUI Debian Installer packaged with LXDE desktop, ver 6.0.6. I succeeded simply by running the text-based Debian Installer. No one suggested that. If this is

Using VMware graphics drivers in a kvm windows guest?

2013-03-02 Thread James Allsopp
Hi, I've heard that kvm windows guests have better graphics performance using the VMware drivers. I've tried to follow some instructions found on the web but can't get the install to run. Has anyone tried this, and if so how did they achieve it? Thanks, James

Re: Installation failed

2013-03-02 Thread Patrick Bartek
- Original Message - > From: Mark Filipak > To: Shane Johnson > Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org > Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 12:12 PM > Subject: Re: Installation failed > > [snip] > > I don't dare fiddle with my hard disk. It's a Dell laptop that has WinXP > preinstalled without

Re: Installation failed - and failed again...

2013-03-02 Thread Joao Luis Meloni Assirati
> It was not a partitioning problem or some other random problem. There's a > bug in the GUI Debian Installer packaged with LXDE desktop, ver 6.0.6. I > succeeded simply by running the text-based Debian Installer. No one > suggested that. If this is the case, please accept my deepest apologies. P

Re: Installation failed

2013-03-02 Thread Mark Filipak
On 2013/3/2 11:26 AM, Cybe R. Wizard wrote: On Fri, 01 Mar 2013 19:03:14 -0500 Miles Fidelman wrote: First off, I'm going to repeat: STOP SENDING TWO COPIES OF YOUR EMAILS. It's simply rude. Reply to the list or not at all. +1 I've not been a thread participant and yet am still getting Cc:s

Package Pre-dependencies

2013-03-02 Thread rbmj
Hello everyone, One quick question: If package A pre-depends on package B, and package C depends on package A, does package C pre-depend on package B? In other words, is pre-depends transitive across regular dependencies? Thanks, -- rbmj -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lis

Re: fix HD order

2013-03-02 Thread Joao Luis Meloni Assirati
> On 28-Feb-13 16:55, Joao Luis Meloni Assirati wrote: >>> Hi, >>> i've 4 HD's and 3 distros. >>> When i load debian squeeze, the sdc hd is slected by grub, but the next >>> time i load it, the sda hd is selected. >>> It seems a randomize selecting. >>> How can i fix this ? UID is used and settings

Re: Installation failed - and failed again...

2013-03-02 Thread Mark Filipak
On 2013/3/2 12:37 PM, Joao Luis Meloni Assirati wrote: On Sat 02 Mar 2013 at 08:51:03 +, Brian wrote: > The problem is in the GUI installer. To do the installation > successfully, use the text-based installer. I'd not see this as being the problem, Both a text and a GUI install shou

Re: Install failed - USB flash to USB drive [SOLVED]

2013-03-02 Thread Mark Filipak
On 2013/3/2 8:56 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote: Wait a minute Mark Filipak wrote: I successfully installed this: debian-live-6.0.6-amd64-lxde-desktop.iso to a USB flash in Windows with this: dd bs=1M if=debian-live-6.0.6-amd64-lxde-desktop.iso od=e: dd, in Windows? which version of dd for

Re: Installation failed - and failed again...

2013-03-02 Thread Joao Luis Meloni Assirati
> On Sat 02 Mar 2013 at 08:51:03 +, Brian wrote: > >> The problem is in the GUI installer. To do the installation >> successfully, use the text-based installer. > > I'd not see this as being the problem, Both a text and a GUI install > should succeed (or fail) under the *same* condition

[OT] facelift for kernel.org

2013-03-02 Thread Hugo Vanwoerkom
https://www.kernel.org/ got a facelift. Looks better. Hugo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/kgtdbg$9vr$1...@ger.gmane.org

Re: Two copies of E-Mail (Re: I wish to advocate linux)

2013-03-02 Thread David Guntner
Brian grabbed a keyboard and wrote: > On Fri 01 Mar 2013 at 00:35:35 -0700, Bob Proulx wrote: > >> David Guntner wrote: >>> Anyway, the recipe is dirt simple. >>> ... >>> # Duplicate Suppression. >>> :0Whc: $MAILDIR/.msgid.cache.lock >>> | $FORMAIL -D 8192 $MAILDIR/.msgid.cache >>> >>> # T

Re: Caldav client on Debian

2013-03-02 Thread Lisi Reisz
On Friday 01 March 2013 21:04:40 Mérof 42 wrote: > I'm searching a simple client, not like evolution who need a mailbox > activated. I used Evolution as a stand-alone calendar for years and never activated a mailbox. I stopped using it recently because it had acquired a bug, anyhow on my styste

Re: Installation failed

2013-03-02 Thread Cybe R. Wizard
On Fri, 01 Mar 2013 19:03:14 -0500 Miles Fidelman wrote: > First off, I'm going to repeat: STOP SENDING TWO COPIES OF YOUR > EMAILS. It's simply rude. Reply to the list or not at all. +1 I've not been a thread participant and yet am still getting Cc:s in my inbox from Mark Filipak while the leg

Re: Two copies of E-Mail (Re: I wish to advocate linux)

2013-03-02 Thread Brian
On Fri 01 Mar 2013 at 00:35:35 -0700, Bob Proulx wrote: > David Guntner wrote: > > Anyway, the recipe is dirt simple. > > ... > > # Duplicate Suppression. > > :0Whc: $MAILDIR/.msgid.cache.lock > > | $FORMAIL -D 8192 $MAILDIR/.msgid.cache > > > > # Take out the Trash. > > :0 a: > >

Re: upgrade snafu

2013-03-02 Thread Frank McCormick
On 01/03/13 05:30 PM, Bob Proulx wrote: Frank McCormick wrote: localepurge: checking for existence of /var/cache/localepurge/localelist... localepurge: checking system for new locale ... Segmentation fault E: Problem executing scripts DPkg::Post-Invoke 'if [ -x /usr/sbin/localepurge ] && [ $(ps

Re: [OT] re: trolls and operating systems [was: Install failed - let's start again, without bogus assumptions, please.]

2013-03-02 Thread Yaro Kasear
On 03/02/2013 03:13 AM, Joe wrote: On Fri, 01 Mar 2013 23:59:21 -0600 Yaro Kasear wrote: If he is a troll, then why are we still feeding him? Because we're all hoping to pick up some scraps ourselves. It's rare that even this kind of discussion produces absolutely nothing of any use to a

emacs elpa install failed

2013-03-02 Thread Jude DaShiell
It turns out I wasn't in the scratch buffer when I tried the eval. I thought I was in that buffer after trying to enter it in the wrong way but that wasn't the case. Also I found el-get package and since that supports more than elpa, I installed that package and made evaluate run on it succes

Re: Installation failed - and failed again...

2013-03-02 Thread Brian
On Sat 02 Mar 2013 at 08:51:03 +, Brian wrote: > From another mail in this thread: > >http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2013/03/msg00073.html > >Some work for you. This iGRUB failure should be repeatable. When it >happens switch to console 4 with ALT-F4 and let us know what the

Re: Installation failed - again - why am I not surprised

2013-03-02 Thread Harvey Kelly
Hi Miles, >> He has managed to hog the whole list, and get a lot of technical >> expertise for free, for days now - by displaying the attitude of a >> particularly badly-behaved child. >> What a d!ck. > but it has been fascinating, in a train-wreck, troll-baiting kind of way :-) Oh absolutely! I'

elpa install failed

2013-03-02 Thread Jude DaShiell
I tried installing elpa on wheezy emacs and the install failed. It appears the control-j key when pressed after the piece of code is put into the scratch buffer and the cursor is positioned just after the last right parenthesis does nothing. Was this some kind of security fix put into the deb

Re: Installation failed - again - why am I not surprised

2013-03-02 Thread Miles Fidelman
Harvey Kelly wrote: On 2 March 2013 10:58, Chris Bannister wrote: On Fri, Mar 01, 2013 at 08:20:32PM -0500, Mark Filipak wrote: João, kindly stop responding to this thread. I want help, not noise. Bloody cheek!! Did you behave this way on other distro support lists? Watching this from afar,

Re: Installation failed - again - why am I not surprised

2013-03-02 Thread Harvey Kelly
On 2 March 2013 10:58, Chris Bannister wrote: > On Fri, Mar 01, 2013 at 08:20:32PM -0500, Mark Filipak wrote: >> >> João, kindly stop responding to this thread. I want help, not noise. > > Bloody cheek!! Did you behave this way on other distro support lists? Watching this from afar, what I find

Re: Install failed - USB flash to USB drive [SOLVED]

2013-03-02 Thread Miles Fidelman
Wait a minute Mark Filipak wrote: I successfully installed this: debian-live-6.0.6-amd64-lxde-desktop.iso to a USB flash in Windows with this: dd bs=1M if=debian-live-6.0.6-amd64-lxde-desktop.iso od=e: dd, in Windows? which version of dd for windows did you use? (where 'e:' is the U

Re: Moving from a proprietary OS - unnecessarily inful experience -- was [Re: I wish to advocate linux]

2013-03-02 Thread Miles Fidelman
Lars Noodén wrote: On 03/02/2013 11:27 AM, Tom Furie wrote: On Sat, Mar 02, 2013 at 07:38:41PM +1300, Chris Bannister wrote: These days it is != :) (I think <> was "not equal to", was it?) Technically, it's "less than or greater than", but I suppose it amounts to the same thing :) Cheers, T

Re: I wish to advocate linux

2013-03-02 Thread Miles Fidelman
Brian wrote: On Fri 01 Mar 2013 at 23:05:13 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote: Yup. And it's even obvious what he's doing, but he's too obstinate to listen. (trying to install onto the same device he's booting from, without paying attention to partitioning, telling the installer where to put things

Re: How can I know which deb-multimedia packages I have installed?

2013-03-02 Thread Csanyi Pal
Hi Bob, Bob Proulx writes: > Csanyi Pal wrote: >> I have installed vuze on my Debian GNU/Linux 7.0 (wheezy) system. >> >> My sources.list is: >> >> deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ sid main contrib non-free >> deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ sid main contrib non-free > > That looks like

Re: RAID1 all bootable

2013-03-02 Thread Simon Vos
Have you assembled you raid devices again (mdadm --assemble /dev/mdX /dev/sdX)? That should still work with the disk that was used for your RAID-1, when that's done you can mount your disk, chroot into it and run grub-install /dev/sda (and grub-install /dev/sdb, so you won't have this problem in t

Re: Caldav client on Debian

2013-03-02 Thread Mérof 42
Yes, Sunbird is fine, but non maintained, and the last version is a beta. I'm looking for something like that who make only calendar management I don't like the Firefox plugin solution because a browser must be a browser, not a swiss knife. I can find a simple caldav client on any other os (androi

Re: I wish to advocate linux

2013-03-02 Thread Brian
On Fri 01 Mar 2013 at 23:05:13 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote: > Yup. And it's even obvious what he's doing, but he's too obstinate > to listen. > > (trying to install onto the same device he's booting from, without > paying attention to partitioning, telling the installer where to put > things, or

Re: ESC[4m does not produce underline OOPS

2013-03-02 Thread Chris Bannister
On Fri, Mar 01, 2013 at 11:46:42AM -0800, Thomas D. Dean wrote: > On 03/01/13 11:35, Thomas D. Dean wrote: > >The ANSI standard lists ESC[4m as the code to produce an underline > > > > > export TERM=ansi80x25 > > > printf "\033[4masdfasdfasdf" > > > >produces green text, not underline text as state

Re: Installation failed - again - why am I not surprised

2013-03-02 Thread Chris Bannister
On Fri, Mar 01, 2013 at 08:20:32PM -0500, Mark Filipak wrote: > > João, kindly stop responding to this thread. I want help, not noise. Bloody cheek!! Did you behave this way on other distro support lists? -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being o

Re: Installation failed

2013-03-02 Thread Richard Hector
On 02/03/13 22:08, Joe wrote: > Actually, the most Windows help you can get is from former newsgroups, > now web forums, which are rather like this, though sponsored by > Microsoft. Occasionally MS people look in and often give technically > correct answers, but also often betray limited real-worl

Fwd: RAID1 all bootable

2013-03-02 Thread Francesco Pietra
A further piece on information. With knoppix 7.0, the procedure for examining mdadm arrives at cat /proc/partitions sda sdb RAID1 (md0 md1) is not seen. I assume that this is the way Knoppix behaves in this situation. Thanks francesco pietra -- Forwarded message -- From: Franc

Re: Moving from a proprietary OS - unnecessarily inful experience -- was [Re: I wish to advocate linux]

2013-03-02 Thread Lars Noodén
On 03/02/2013 11:27 AM, Tom Furie wrote: > On Sat, Mar 02, 2013 at 07:38:41PM +1300, Chris Bannister wrote: > >> These days it is != :) (I think <> was "not equal to", was it?) > > Technically, it's "less than or greater than", but I suppose it > amounts to the same thing :) > > Cheers, Tom >

Re: Installation failed

2013-03-02 Thread Brian
On Fri 01 Mar 2013 at 20:13:40 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote: > Brian wrote: > > > >The kernel has no knowledge about a non-existent hard disk so how can > >GRUB possibly attempt to install itself there? > > good point, but then again, what does grub-install (try to) use as a > default if a specifi

Re: Moving from a proprietary OS - unnecessarily inful experience -- was [Re: I wish to advocate linux]

2013-03-02 Thread Tom Furie
On Sat, Mar 02, 2013 at 07:38:41PM +1300, Chris Bannister wrote: > These days it is != :) (I think <> was "not equal to", was it?) Technically, it's "less than or greater than", but I suppose it amounts to the same thing :) Cheers, Tom -- I think the world is run by C students.

Re: [OT] re: trolls and operating systems [was: Install failed - let's start again, without bogus assumptions, please.]

2013-03-02 Thread Joe
On Fri, 01 Mar 2013 23:59:21 -0600 Yaro Kasear wrote: > > > > > If he is a troll, then why are we still feeding him? > > Because we're all hoping to pick up some scraps ourselves. It's rare that even this kind of discussion produces absolutely nothing of any use to anyone. -- Joe -- To U

Re: RAID1 all bootable

2013-03-02 Thread Francesco Pietra
Is this recipe devised for installing grub on both sda and sda with an undamaged RAID1? In my case, with the sda that contained grub loader replaced by a new disk, the rescue mode (using the same CD installer for amd64 wheezy) did not find any partition. Inverting the SATA cables, same result. I

Re: Installation failed

2013-03-02 Thread Joe
On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 17:28:12 +1300 Richard Hector wrote: > We have a _community_, each member of which knows some stuff. People > can help by mentioning the bits that they know, and putting it > together with the bits that other people know. When you read the > comments, you can also pick and ch

Re: Installation failed - and failed again...

2013-03-02 Thread Brian
On Fri 01 Mar 2013 at 20:10:34 -0500, Mark Filipak wrote: > On 2013/3/1 6:58 PM, Brian wrote: > > > >Any chance of a sight of what syslog reports when GRUB fails to install? > > How do I get to the syslog? >From another mail in this thread: http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2013/03/msg0007

Re: Install failed - let's start again, without bogus assumptions, please.

2013-03-02 Thread Robert Holtzman
On Fri, Mar 01, 2013 at 09:17:41PM -0500, Mark Filipak wrote: > If anyone is still there, I do want help. I've spent all day at this. > > Ground rules: Clue for you, pal: you don't set ground rules unless you own the list. > 1 - If you can't help, please don't try. > 2 - Please don't assume I ha