On Wed, Apr 22, 1998 at 03:36:40PM -0400, Daniel Martin at cush wrote:
> (I've replied to debian-user instead of debian-devel because this
> really belongs on -user)
>
> Ian Keith Setford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Yo-
> >
> > I would like suggestions and input on how to "sell" Debian in
On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Stephen Carpenter wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Luiz Otavio L. Zorzella wrote:
> > Yeah! Is there a good reason why xffst is not started in /etc/rc.boot
> > (or something)?
> I can think of a reason or two...no not really...
> there is a problem with trying to stop it (witho
On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, George Bonser wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Colin Telmer wrote:
>
> You are thinking about POP3 ... a completely different protocol. With IMAP
> you mail never leaves the server.
I don't think so - from fetchmail(1):
-k, --keep
(Keyword: keep) Keep re
Can anyone point me to a document that outlines the differences
between the various flavors of emacs?
Do we expect to have an emacs19 package in time for the 2.0
release?
Bob
--
_
|_) _ |_ Robert D. Hilliard<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|_) (_) |_) Palm City, FL USAP
On Wed, Apr 22, 1998 at 04:22:08PM +0200, Heiko R. Selber wrote:
>
> I heard that the new KDE Beta-4 was released. Unfortunately, it seems that
> the .deb packages exist only in hamm. Is that true, or did someone make
> new KDE packages for bo? If so, where can I get them?
I saw a bo directory on
On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, C.J.LAWSON wrote:
> > What? Do they forbid sending e-mail with bogus To: headers? I am once
> > again baffled by the stupidity of USA laws regarding electronic
>
> (1) Why would anyone intentionally want to send email to a bogus header?
> to wreak havoc?? ... to bounce spam m
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Luiz Otavio L. Zorzella wrote:
> The point is: they can't demand certain restrictions in the license,
> even if you signed a contract (which most users even did not). But I'm
> not a lawyer, and won't speak as if I knew better than I do...
Will Lowe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I need to install the new source-only pine package ... I've got the
> .orig.tar.gz, the .dsc, and the .diff.gz, and can't seem to get
> patch to install them. How to I go about this? Is there a dpkg
> option for it?
`man dpkg-source' (hint: `dpkg-source -
I need to install the new source-only pine package ... I've got the
.orig.tar.gz, the .dsc, and the .diff.gz, and can't seem to get patch
to install them. How to I go about this? Is there a dpkg option for it?
thanks...
On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, George Bonser wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Remco Blaakmeer wrote:
>
> > They have no license or the license is ill-formed or very ambiguous. You
> > get the idea.
>
> The gist of any Microsoft licenses I have ever read have been along the
> lines of:
>
> "This software is
the copy/paste functions of gpm stop working after awhile ... instead of
pasting, it selects... ? Restarting gpm works...
-Paul
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On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Luiz Otavio L. Zorzella wrote:
> Remco Blaakmeer writes:
>
> > You can place the fonts in a subdirectory of /var/ttfonts . You can use
> > any name for that subdirectory. Where you get the fonts is another issue.
> > It is probably illegal to use the fonts that come with Win
On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Rev. Joseph Carter wrote:
> I finally decided to give KDE another shot. I got the beta4 .deb files
> and installed them and then went to go look at /opt---these isn't one.
> The beta4 KDE package is policy-compliant for those who wanted it.
>
> KDE looked nice--though I will
On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Stephen Carpenter wrote:
> Luiz Otavio L. Zorzella wrote:
>
> > Remco Blaakmeer writes:
>
> > > It is probably illegal to use the fonts that come with Windows.
> >
> > Why? If you bought a Windows license, you bought a license for the
> > Windows components, I think.
>
> Th
Can anyone point me to a document that outlines the differences
between the various flavors of emacs?
Read the NEWS file in emacs20. Invoke emacs20, then type C-h C-n.
You could do the same thing in xemacs{19,20}, I assume.
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I finally decided to give KDE another shot. I got the beta4 .deb files
and installed them and then went to go look at /opt---these isn't one.
The beta4 KDE package is policy-compliant for those who wanted it.
KDE looked nice--though I will spend weeks trying to sort out how to make
kwm work witho
I have exactly the same problem, sounds like a bug to me...
-AK
>
> I have a problem with the isdnutils 2.1beta1-20 package. Using the
> following script (some phone numbers hidden) I was able to login to my
> provider, after a final "route add default ippp0" after connecting
> using ping my n
On Mon, Apr 20, 1998 at 05:46:10PM -0700, George Bonser wrote:
> I quote from the copyright:
>
> ...
>
> Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software and its
> documentation for any purpose and without fee to the University of
> Washington is hereby granted, provided that these l
Does anyone know how to have modprobe display more descriptive log
messages when it can't load a module? I've been getting messages in
my log like:
Apr 22 16:38:52 cush modprobe: can't locate module
and I've been trying to track them down, (they appear whenever
netscape is started) but it would
N¬Âæº[b¥ªÃÂë,j¢Âà ú+«
Stephen Carpenter writes:
> but... What are the chances of Micro$oft using any sort of free
> licence for anything?
The point is: they can't demand certain restrictions in the license,
even if you signed a contract (which most users even did not). But I'm
not a lawyer, and won't speak as if I kne
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hi,
I am looking for information that will allow me to see the modem conection
speed between my modem and the ISP, I have set up pppd to report the
conection speed, but when it reports the speed, its the speed between the
modem, and my computer... I was told I w
>
> I :)
>
> I'm sutch expecting a problem with my num(+) key..i've got such a
> belgian keyboard :)) and i can't swith between X resosolution, so i'm
> frozen at 640x480 8bpp :,((
>
> So i would like to know if someone know how to switch resolution without
> this key sequence...
>
> Help w
Greetings all,
I'm trying to install debian and X(if possible) on a compaq 1680 presario
laptopi downloaded the newest hamm disksand because of the way all
of the software came on one "quik-restore " cd...i had to use fips to
create a partition for debian. I left the partition unforma
> Hi,
good morning (just waked up)
> Looking into /etc/X11/Xsession, I see that it looks into
> $HOME/.xsession; sorry for the .xinitrc red herring. Look into
> that. Interesting file ;-)
interresting indeed,i'll look what's possible to customize here (should
keep me busy from now on t
On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, George Bonser wrote:
> It moves the mail from the spool to the inbox upon checking for mail. I
> do not think this is considered a problem but is possibly a configuration
> item when building that particular imapd implimentation.
I have not used imap and fetchmail for some ti
In debian-user you wrote:
>
>One of my internet service providers (well actually, my university) only
>allows access to the internet via a proxy server. So I can use netscape
>to ftp (and I presume use telnet though I haven't tried this).
I'd be surprised if you could! One major advantage of
pro
In debian-user Adrian Bridgett wrote:
>
>There is no such thing as telnet-proxy.
Sorry for the blatant plug, but at Solsoft we sell
NetSecurityMaster, a proxy server with user authentication, which
does telnet (and a load of other things). It runs on Linux (and a
load of other operating systems (N
(I've replied to debian-user instead of debian-devel because this
really belongs on -user)
Ian Keith Setford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Yo-
>
> I would like suggestions and input on how to "sell" Debian in the sense of
> Debian versus RedHat, FreeBSD, or any other distribution. I will attemp
My Debian 1.3 box has been running with no major problems for many months.
Suddenly, a few days ago, the cron job that runs find every morning
starting sending root a report saying that many directories did not exist.
For example:
find: /usr/local/maple/update: No such file or directory
find: /usr
On Tue, 21 Apr 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On 21 Apr, Adalberto da Silva wrote:
> > I'm thinking about put all those guys to talk but I don't know where I
> > may start. Well, I put an eye on Lars' "System Administrator.." and
> > Olaf's "Network Administrators..." but I think my problems
On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Stephen Carpenter wrote:
> I got (for free) a SCSI controller...
> somone bought an internal SCSI Zip drive here at work but already
> had a SCSI card so they gave me the new one from the Zip drive...
> is this controller worth bothering with or should I spend the $$ to get
>
> > A friend of mine is suffering from similar problems, and suspects it might
> > be a problem with smail. You might want to try if using another MDA (e.g.
> > exim) works.
>
> I'm not sure it's that, so much as not having a MTA present (I get the
> impression that Britton doesn't have smail ins
Hi,
I checked my inetd.conf and services files. Both had the correct afbackup
entries. The "backuphost" problem seems to be related to the fact that
afbackup is looking for "backuphost" instead of "localhost" which is what
is configured. If I add "backuphost" as an alias to localhost in
/etc/ho
Adrian Bridgett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 04:39:23PM +1200, Richard L Shepherd wrote:
> > Has anyone heard of a telnet-proxy package (especially for linux
> > and Debian of course)?
> >
> > We have some people who have (and want to keep) their subnet
> > blocked for of
Ossama Othman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Hi,
>
> I've been trying to get afbackup (the Debian package) working on my
> hamm system. Whenever I run the "afclient -q" command to see if the
> backup server is running properly I get the following:
>
> Error: cannot find address of host bac
Alain Toussaint <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> a last question,does it possible in X to be logged on as several
> user at once (you see,have 2 xterm logged as root,one as
> alaint,etc...) after this is answered,i'll keep my mouth shut except
> when answering question (i found that i asked more than
I have a problem with the isdnutils 2.1beta1-20 package. Using the
following script (some phone numbers hidden) I was able to login to my
provider, after a final "route add default ippp0" after connecting
using ping my network connections is available and stable:
LOCAL_NUMBER="xxx"
REMO
On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Tim Sailer wrote:
> > I use fetchmail and I do not think I upgraded it recently, although I
> > might be wrong. This happens even if I telnet to port 143 and just check
> > how many messages I have. Besides, imap server still counts those in mbox
> > as messages. It looks like
Alexander Stavitsky wrote:
>
> On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Jaldhar H. Vyas wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 22, 1998 at 03:25:53AM -0400, Alexander Stavitsky wrote:
> > > Since I installed imap 4.1.BETA-1 every time I access my mailbox by IMAP
> > > it dissapears. Actually everything is saved in $HOME/mbox and mai
Luiz Otavio L. Zorzella wrote:
> Remco Blaakmeer writes:
> > It is probably illegal to use the fonts that come with Windows.
>
> Why? If you bought a Windows license, you bought a license for the
> Windows components, I think.
That sounds right to meIt is of course illegal to distribute the
On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Jaldhar H. Vyas wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 22, 1998 at 03:25:53AM -0400, Alexander Stavitsky wrote:
> > Since I installed imap 4.1.BETA-1 every time I access my mailbox by IMAP
> > it dissapears. Actually everything is saved in $HOME/mbox and mail
> > spool file is empty.
> What mai
Tom Zelazny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
>Please advise how I can get my modem set up(com2irq3)
1) Look at the Serial howto. Although this howto is no longer maintained,
it contains a good description of the setserial command that you
need.
2) Look at "man setserial"
3) I think you need to g
Is there any package sendmail8.8.8 for debian 1.3 ???
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Remco Blaakmeer writes:
> You can place the fonts in a subdirectory of /var/ttfonts . You can use
> any name for that subdirectory. Where you get the fonts is another issue.
> It is probably illegal to use the fonts that come with Windows.
Why? If you bought a Windows license, you bought a licen
Stephen Carpenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
| I have had one too many hardware failures which resulted in me
| "Loosing everything" lately, and as such would like to get a Tape drive
| I have been told that with linux "most IDE Tape drives and All SCSI
| tape dirves will work"
| I have had a secr
I want to test RDBMS for Linux... Does someone knows somethinig about
Interbase and Linux?
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|->
|(Embedded|
|image moved |
|to file: |
|PIC12191.PCX)|
|->
>--|
| |
|debian-user @ lists.debian.org
I got this setup.. in fact.. I even have FreeBSD to do a quad boot.
However... I am not positive if you can directly boot off of a hda6... since for
me to successfully implement the quad boot, I had to make 3 primary partitions.
Windows 95, FreeBSD, Linux. They all mount different drives..
On Wed, Apr 22, 1998 at 09:53:51AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 11:14:16PM -0800, Britton wrote:
> > I have fetchmail working with procmail as my mda, and I can see downloaded
> > messages with 'mail', but when I send a message to myself (or I expect
> > anyone else),
Hi,
I am trying to install three OSs on one HD: Win 95, Win NT and Linux. I was
partially succesfull; th eonly problem at the moment is, that I can't boot
linux without a boot floppy.
Here is what I did:
1. Partition my hard disk ( 3GB) with fdisk (the DOS program):
- hda1 Primary Bootable for W
> An annoying feature of vim is that the effects of backspace and of delete
> are reversed compared to any other vi. It is particularly annoying because
> backspace will delete existing text, including newlines, when it is in input
> mode.
>
> How can I put these effects back to normal, please?
F
Hi,
I have realized a uucp connection between an aix server and a linux
client. It works perfectly except the login. In fact, the server never
ask for login ???
help !!!
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I recently upgraded a computer from kernel v 2.0.29 to 2.0.33. It has a
Promise UDMA controller card, and the patch is written against 2.0.33.
The harddrive now works fine. However, I get the message SIOCSIFFLAGS:
Resource Temporarily Unavailable when the system tries to set up the
network interfac
I heard that the new KDE Beta-4 was released. Unfortunately, it seems that
the .deb packages exist only in hamm. Is that true, or did someone make
new KDE packages for bo? If so, where can I get them?
TIA,
Heiko
PS: Cetero censeo Debian-2.0 publicandam esse.
---
On Wed, Apr 22, 1998 at 03:25:53AM -0400, Alexander Stavitsky wrote:
> Since I installed imap 4.1.BETA-1 every time I access my mailbox by IMAP
> it dissapears. Actually everything is saved in $HOME/mbox and mail
> spool file is empty.
>
What mail client are you using? Have you changed it recent
Add the following to your ~/.emacs file:
(set-face-background 'default "white")
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> An annoying feature of vim is that the effects of backspace and of delete
> are reversed compared to any other vi. It is particularly annoying because
> backspace will delete existing text, including newlines, when it is in input
> mode.
>
> How can I put these effects back to normal, please?
H
On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Mark Phillips wrote:
> One of my internet service providers (well actually, my university) only
> allows access to the internet via a proxy server. So I can use netscape
> to ftp (and I presume use telnet though I haven't tried this). However I
> cannot use normal ftp progra
On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Adrian Bridgett wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 20, 1998 at 10:52:15PM -0500, pgarcia wrote:
> > I'm currently not using xdm; I'm using startx to start X.
> > When I don't have an .xserverrc file, X uses magic cookies.
> > When I do have one (that simply says X -bpp 24), the security
>
I have had one too many hardware failures which resulted in me
"Loosing everything" lately, and as such would like to get a Tape drive
I have been told that with linux "most IDE Tape drives and All SCSI
tape dirves will work"
I have had a secret desire (ok..not so secret) to start using SCSI on my
Stephen Carpenter wrote:
[ on sites containing the autoup.sh script ]
>
> I can't seem to connect to either of these sites...I tried yesterday and again
> today
Same here.
> The farthest Nutscrape gets is saying "Host contacted waiting for reply"
> I am wondering if these sites work for everyon
I can't seem to connect to either of these sites...I tried yesterday and again
today
The farthest Nutscrape gets is saying "Host contacted waiting for reply"
I am wondering if these sites work for everyone else?
Maybe they don't like hosts whose names don't reverse lookup right?
(here at work every
On Wed, Apr 22, 1998 at 12:57:19PM +0200, Oliver Elphick wrote:
> An annoying feature of vim is that the effects of backspace and of delete
> are reversed compared to any other vi.
See help :fixdel
> It is particularly annoying because backspace will delete existing text,
> including newlines, wh
An annoying feature of vim is that the effects of backspace and of delete
are reversed compared to any other vi. It is particularly annoying because
backspace will delete existing text, including newlines, when it is in input
mode.
How can I put these effects back to normal, please?
Should this b
On Wed, Apr 22, 1998 at 10:59:25AM +0200, Joost Kooij wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Adrian Bridgett wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 04:39:23PM +1200, Richard L Shepherd wrote:
> > > Has anyone heard of a telnet-proxy package (especially for linux and
> > > Debian of course)?
> > >
> > > We h
> On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 04:39:23PM +1200, Richard L Shepherd wrote:
> > Has anyone heard of a telnet-proxy package (especially for linux and
> > Debian of course)?
> >
> > We have some people who have (and want to keep) their subnet blocked
> > for offsite access (so they do all their WWW brows
On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Aria Prima Novianto wrote:
> >From freshmeat page:
> --
> freshmeat RPM repository
> As you might already know, freshmeat tries to keep up with
> the latest software releases and builds RPM packages for
> them. All this work is done by Obituary, feel free to mail him
>
Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>Hi,
>
> Looking into /etc/X11/Xsession, I see that it looks into
> $HOME/.xsession; sorry for the .xinitrc red herring. Look into
> that. Interesting file ;-)
>
If you start X `by hand' with startx, it uses .xinitrc; xdm uses .xsession.
I have the two fi
On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 09:57:08AM -0400, Stephen Carpenter wrote:
> The one you link is the old version It is v.23 and I elieve from what
> I read this morning .25 was releaces According to the old versiont he
> latest version shoul dbe at: http://www.taz.net.au/autoup/autoup/
that url was a typ
On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Adrian Bridgett wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 04:39:23PM +1200, Richard L Shepherd wrote:
> > Has anyone heard of a telnet-proxy package (especially for linux and
> > Debian of course)?
> >
> > We have some people who have (and want to keep) their subnet blocked for
> > of
Hi,
Looking into /etc/X11/Xsession, I see that it looks into
$HOME/.xsession; sorry for the .xinitrc red herring. Look into
that. Interesting file ;-)
manoj
--
In the interests of better foreign relations, "Cheesehead" is
presented here in several different languages. Ma
>>
>> Either make a local account with the same username or make an alias that
>> points to your local username.
>>
I don't really want to create another account if I can help it, but I tried
making an alias for tht user in /etc/aliases but that didn't work either. It
is just that the mail I re
You need to make it clear to fethmail who is who where. My account on my
home machine is foo, with password xxx, and on my mailserver bar with
password yyy, then my .fetchmairc looks like:
poll aurora.alaska.edu \
protocol POP3 \
timeout 200 \
user bar there with password yyy is foo here \
mda
On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 11:14:16PM -0800, Britton wrote:
> I have fetchmail working with procmail as my mda, and I can see downloaded
> messages with 'mail', but when I send a message to myself (or I expect
> anyone else), I get errors. I expect I need smail running for this to
> work? What is th
On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 11:52:25AM -0600, Tres Hofmeister wrote:
> Where can I find the latest Mozilla package?
In Incoming. (see http://www.debian.org/devel/incoming_mirrors.html)
HTH,
Ray
--
UNFAIR Term applied to advantages enjoyed by other people which we tried
to cheat them out of a
Hi,
I am trying to get fetchmail to get my mail from my isp, exept everytime I use
it (i.e. fetchmail -u ), I get an error from fetchmail
saying something about my local user name being different than my isp mail
name, How can i correct this?
Regards
Graham
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Since I installed imap 4.1.BETA-1 every time I access my mailbox by IMAP
it dissapears. Actually everything is saved in $HOME/mbox and mail
spool file is empty.
Why did it start happening and how to stop it?
=
=== mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
=
I have fetchmail working with procmail as my mda, and I can see downloaded
messages with 'mail', but when I send a message to myself (or I expect
anyone else), I get errors. I expect I need smail running for this to
work? What is the preferred way to make smail run on hamm? Should
fetchmail be
On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Colin Telmer wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Apr 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > I liked the text background color better the way it was set
> > before, on grey. I don't like the new white block as much However I
> > can't find out how to change it. I've looked through all th
> I use tob_0.14-2.deb without problems
>
> I create a dummy directory, copy some dummy files to it, go to it,
> become root and (mis)run
>
> tob check
>
> It behaves the same as tob without options, all the tob options are
> displayed, and the files are there
>
I ran the same test with tob_
> "Jens" == Jens B Jorgensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Jens> I use a Zyxel OMNI TA 128U (almost the exact same beast) with a single 64K
Jens> channel. It has no problems. My server machine is a P90 overclocked to
100 with
Jens> 40MB of memory. Perhaps you're getting buffer overruns on your
On 21 Apr, Adalberto da Silva wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I wish my question is only a little bit ou of scope...
>
> My computer is a dual boot MMX230 with 120 MBytes RAM and three IDE
> hard disks (2 Megs for Win95 and 11 Megs for Linux - this is an
> indication for my choices. But I do use
Keith Beattie wrote:
> Oh, minor stuff really. The completion stuff mentioned earlier in
> this thread, prompt settings (~ when in your home dir, a shorter HH:MM
> time format), other little things I can't remember right now. I'm
> sure I could get bash to do most of it, if I sat down and figured
Hi,
I've been trying to get afbackup (the Debian package) working on my hamm
system. Whenever I run the "afclient -q" command to see if the backup
server is running properly I get the following:
Error: cannot find address of host backuphost.
My /etc/afbackup/client.config file has "loca
On Tue, 21 Apr 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I liked the text background color better the way it was set
> before, on grey. I don't like the new white block as much However I
> can't find out how to change it. I've looked through all the settings and
> all the config files, but there's
Hello!
I wish my question is only a little bit ou of scope...
My computer is a dual boot MMX230 with 120 MBytes RAM and three IDE
hard disks (2 Megs for Win95 and 11 Megs for Linux - this is an
indication for my choices. But I do use Netscape under W95...).
My girlfriend
On Wed, 22 Apr 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, G. Crimp wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have a generic S3 Trio64V+ card. Until recently it had only the
> > stock 1 M of memory. With that, if I had, Netscape running and then tried
> > to run something else that used a lot
Hi all.
I liked the text background color better the way it was set
before, on grey. I don't like the new white block as much However I
can't find out how to change it. I've looked through all the settings and
all the config files, but there's just too much.
Any ideas?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Adrian Bridgett wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 04:39:23PM +1200, Richard L Shepherd wrote:
> > Has anyone heard of a telnet-proxy package (especially for linux and
> > Debian of course)?
> >
> > We have some people who have (and want to k
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Michael Beattie wrote:
> > Well, IE 4 with Active Desktop is a piece of sh*t. I installed it on the
> > machine of my girl friend,and she wanted me to remove it instantly. With all
> > those circles and orange buttons, you can't find the f
On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, G. Crimp wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a generic S3 Trio64V+ card. Until recently it had only the
> stock 1 M of memory. With that, if I had, Netscape running and then tried
> to run something else that used a lot of colour, occasionally, the second
> app would fail to star
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