stops doing anything such as reaping zombies and you need to reboot
quite quickly, but the system continues to mostly work.
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with a
ld pose no additional effort to get. And it
> would mean IMO a good leap forward in ensuring buildability — Even
> more with arch:all
I doubt it would make any change in the workload for us in the DSA. I
assume it will lead to a slight increase in workload for the buildd
maintainers.
-
stemd
primary upstream authors that having /usr on a separate fs is a bad idea
since there are tools that (primarily) some udev rules use, which live
on /usr.
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tions to install things the
>traditional way are in INSTALL."
>
> Just stating the facts. I see no reason to discuss these issues any
> further.
«default location» vs «architecture of udev». Reality check, please?
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]] Bjørn Mork
> Tollef Fog Heen writes:
> > ]] Bjørn Mork
> >
> >> "The default 'configure' install locations have changed. Packages for
> >>systems with the historic / vs. /usr split need to be adapted,
> >>otherwise ude
a point where we can or should make a
decision what the next default init system should be. Let's leave that
discussion until wheezy is out the door, at least.
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UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky abou
argue about specific contribution legal documents and policies
> (although hopefully, not here ;) but not about whether they are a reality in
> today's FLOSS world.
There's a significant difference whether your contractual counterpart is
somebody who has the public good or profits i
ely factor into
> my decision.
This isn't about whether money is dirty or not, it's about whether you
give your copyright to somebody who are able to do whatever they want
with it or not. The FSF's is a lot more tied than a private corporation
is.
You might not consider this a pro
ore poweroff.
LVM vs non-LVM isn't really relevant here, is it? It's just about
whether /usr is a separate fs or not?
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with a subjec
encourage people to run package repositories on Alioth, in
particular full-distro ones. It's not what it's for.
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with a s
er the jessie cycle, deprecate (but still
read) /etc/network/interfaces and for jessie+1 just drop the file and
only use the .d directory.
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]] Andrew Shadura
> > Also, your fix doesn't actually solve the RC bug either:
>
> Well, it does.
No, it doesn't. You're still recreating /etc/network/interfaces if it's
not there. Removing a file is a change which must be preserved.
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t sounds like you are arguing that we should just ship the the
repository in the source package, then. No chance of it ever getting
out of date, trivial to find the merge points and missing patches
between two packages and fits much better with a VCS-driven workflow.
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]] Russ Allbery
> Tollef Fog Heen writes:
> > ]] Gergely Nagy
>
> >> No, not really. I don't really care what tools one uses, as long as the
> >> result is reasonably easy *and* reliable to work with. Since VCS can be
> >> stale, and quite often
d up on the whole idea of
devops.
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]] Steve Langasek
> (/etc/aliases on master mentions it going to leader@, but this entry
> is commented out.)
Use exim -bt $address on master to find out. It goes to leader@ + an
archive. (I agree it should probably go on the org page too.)
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rimary goal
and not what I'm optimising for, so I disagree with what you're saying
above.
(Everything else being equal, I'll choose a solution that makes my
downstream's lives easier, of course.)
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e able to do this.
> - prevent some users pushing tags (or only allow tags matching a pattern)
You can do this with a hook as well.
I'm using gitano (not packaged) for this on my own setup, it has a set
of ACLs that gets run. I think gitolite is able to do it as well, so
maybe take a look a
]] Thomas Goirand
> I wasn't discussing what can be done for backing up a Git repository,
> I was asking what is *currently installed* in production as a backup
> for Alioth.
da-backup. Look at /etc/da-backup/* for the configuration.
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anything
> else. Maybe buildbot would fit my needs better, so I would
> really appreciate if anyone can share his experience with it.
Just use jenkins-job-builder?
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r to hit, since there are more
copies of them floating around.
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ugs
(because then we can release, which means we can then do what we prefer
to, which (as you can see in the unconstrained periods), is to package
new software, new upstream versions and so on). New code tends to be
buggier than older, debugged code, so it's no surprise that we get more
RC bugs
]] Vincent Lefevre
> On 2013-04-02 21:06:30 +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > Just to expand slightly on this, the problem you're both poking at is
> > that during a freeze, our incentives are directed towards fixing RC bugs
> > (because then we can release, which me
omething, legitimate or (probably) otherwise.
Sure, that was the definition in 1995. Today, anything that's off-topic
for a given forum is typically called spam. Whether it's about selling
something or not.
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be deficiencies in the tools, something that can be
fixed easily enough with a few patches.
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> Assuming we have some DSA assets in such countries. But I presume the
> mentors admins and/or DSA have thought of that…
We have machines outside the US, yes, the biggest ones are/will be in
.ca, .de, .uk and .gr.
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TP, and we have quite strong overall solution, I think.
The Yubikey neo can run the java applet thingies, it seems, so it can
act as a GPG token too.
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]] Thomas Goirand
> On 04/12/2013 03:25 AM, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > The Yubikey neo can run the java applet thingies, it seems, so it can
> > act as a GPG token too.
> Please, please, please ... no java!!!
> That's a security nightmare. I think we'd be l
]] Lars Wirzenius
> - if it's a lot of packages, I construct a complicated sed
> and awk and so on pipeline to extract the package names
> and feed those to apt-get install
Aka /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends ?
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ext as the bug in
question has a patch. Aka, the code is written already.
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sent there.
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e's not a huge interest.)
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work. Thomas is facing a very large chunk of work to make sure
upgrades from the no-longer-supported E release to whatever might be in
jessie, since upstream breaks APIs and doesn't support skipping releases
when upgrading.
>From what I've understood from upstreams in the openstack com
got confused back in the days, but that's
probably been fixed since, but I would not be surprised to see other
tools be confused about such versions.)
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n a task or a blend, but it's one of
the packages where I'm fairly sure that lots of people (DSA included)
would be less than impressed if it was missing from a stable release.
I'd also not be surprised if it wasn't in an existing blend or task.
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their infrastructures. Also, it's generally a
bigger problem if something goes away than if it was never shipped.
Going away means leaving users hanging. Not ever having something just
means, well, we didn't have it and those who wanted it had to install it
from elsewhere.
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faults to local mail only, listening on localhost only,
so how it would reject mail by default, I'm not sure?
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cess that processes the core files, adding backtraces and
removing the core file afterward. This isn't perfect but, it's deemed
good enough. (This is from what I remember it was like some years ago,
I might be misremembering and they might have changed the process since.)
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]] Vincent Lefevre
> On 2013-05-12 18:51:10 +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > ]] Vincent Lefevre
> > > But not for postfix, which can reject mail by default without an
> > > initial configuration. Since it is not working by default, and loses
> > > mail, the da
t need to be escaped within a path segment in a URL. I
believe the only reason why apt escapes them on disk is to avoid
problems if .deb files are copied to file systems where : is
problematic, such as VFAT and HFS.
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]] Vincent Lefevre
> On 2013-05-13 13:01:27 +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > ]] Vincent Lefevre
> >
> > > On 2013-05-12 18:51:10 +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > > > ]] Vincent Lefevre
> > > > > But not for postfix, which can reject mail by
]] Vincent Lefevre
> On 2013-05-13 13:32:51 +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > ]] Vincent Lefevre
> >
> > > On 2013-05-13 13:01:27 +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > > > So you configured it through debconf, in a non-default way, and it
> > > >
, but also, rm the old postrm
script (with suitable checks). It's not pretty, but it's sometimes
necessary.
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]] Niels Thykier
> However, I would not be surprised if DSA were to object to maintaining
> machines running sid.
With the (grumbling) exception of new architectures where there is
sometimes a bootstrapping problem, we want to run stable on buildds and
porter boxes, yes.
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and off for about six
months, but that doesn't help us until we actually have machines racked
and set up as porter boxes/buildds.
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As for merging buildd.net into the
rest of the wbadm stuff, I have no opinion. Talking to the existing
wbadm people is probably the best way forward.
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fan mounted above the hard-drive, so shouldn't
> easyly overheat.
Does it have IPMI, LOM/DRAC/ILO/some sort of remote management or is all
that serial console + networked power switch? I suspect Debian would be
more interested in the 3A 2001 server, any idea about cost for that?
(And same
o experimental, so you could build against that if he does.
We'd love to see some real-life feedback on the changes we've made to
make packagers' lives easier.
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nd porter boxes can run.
At the same time, I believe it's a release criteria that buildds and
porter boxes are available and run by DSA, so there's a small
bootstrapping problem there.
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#x27;s pretty clear that configure.ac is the source and configure isn't,
really. It's some kind of intermediate format.
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with a sub
formation against everyone except a
> global passive attacker.
Am I understanding it correctly that this is somewhat like sending an
encrypted message to a key's fingerprint in a DHT with an expiration
tacked on, or is this completely off the mark?
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onship to each other.
I don't think you can blame English for ancient Greek being
confusing. :-)
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they're likely to lose buildds and porter boxes once oldstable is no
longer supported. We don't want to run testing or unstable on those
machines for obvious reasons.
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]] Jaromír Mikeš
> Aha ... so these default flags are added by compiler and they are not
> controlled by debian tools at all?
> Can I see somewhere default flags for different archs?
run gcc -dumpspecs on the different platforms and you can see them.
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' to generate the
> LSB header from the upstart job.
This will break if you're using systemd and there's no systemd service
for the service in question, so this is a pretty icky approach.
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-
]] Thomas Goirand
> Since last summer, OpenRC has full support for LSB headers. Also, I
> believe that OpenRC is the only init system replacement which allows to
> mix dependencies with LSB or it's own implementation.
It's not, systemd has provided this from the start.
--
T
ged since last time I looked
at upstart, though.
> Yes, different name spaces will be a challenge. But it can be handled
> by deciding to keep the name spaces in sync, using the same name for
> the same service in LSB headers, upstart jobs and systemd jobs.
That + alias support. Anything
n $all.
IIRC, systemd just ignores it.
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nows if
the system is about to shut down and then avoid restarting daemons.)
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rt/stop monit
> as appropriate.
Sure, worst case is that monit, in the middle of shutting down, requests
a service start which won't ever happen (because the machine will be
shut down by then).
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n (this would
also solve the shutdown problem). I assume upstart has a reasonable way
to solve this, but I'm not familiar with what it should be.
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ore than one a day, you can do 0~20140209.1+git$sha1 and so on.
The date information is useful, both for SVN and git non-relases.
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with a subje
-specific changes as a fork).
You make it sound like we are not involved upstream and that we don't
already have weight to affect systemd development. Neither of those are
true.
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ke the one described by Christian usually occur on systems
> which have been undergone several configuration changes and upgrades,
> i.e. old systems.
If the configuration you get from install + upgrade is different than
just installing a newer version, that's a bug.
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]] The Wanderer
> (And now I wait for someone to point out an obvious specialized format
> and/or tool that everyone uses that I've overlooked...)
.deb files? :-)
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k namespaces, capability bounding sets,
limitation of new privileges and syscall filters.
Being able to start a daemon is necessary, but not sufficient for great
integration. I think we should aim for great, not the bare minimum.
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]] Thomas Goirand
> Once I consider OpenRC ready for it, would it be ok to just replace
> sysv-rc by OpenRC, and transform sysv-rc into a transitional package?
No, update-rc.d and invoke-rc.d still need to be provided by something.
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at one able to manage openrc in addition to the
others it already knows how to. No point in forking it.
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t think anybody is actually particularly hung up about
whether it's a git repo or something else, as long as the semantics are
preserved and it's easily consumable using standard tools. (So a git or
bzr repo are both ok, a Visual Sourcesafe or Perforce repo less so.)
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]] Dmitry Smirnov
> On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 07:55:05 Andreas Metzler wrote:
> > FWIW there is an article about it on
> > http://lwn.net/Articles/590879/
>
> Thanks but LWN subscription is needed to read...
Use http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/590879/fef0c71560078461/
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nd it disrespectful to the 2500 odd members on the list to not spend
time to format your message in a useful way and expect them to go out
and do your homework for the original poster. (It sure looked that way
to me from a skimming of the original mail, so I might be wrong here.
If I am, see above about
doesn't care about the same set of things as the existing ones do. Or,
you could fix the software you care about so it adheres to the
guidelines for the existing desktops and then convince the maintainers
(or upstream) to adopt your favourite as their new default.
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top.org/show_bug.cgi?id=74589
systemd needs cgroups, that's pretty well established. Arguably, it
should die with a clearer message.
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]] Norbert Preining
> Hi Tollef,
>
> On Thu, 03 Apr 2014, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76935
> >
> > That's being moved to systemd.debug instead of overloading debug.
>
> Good news. And please make Kay exc
]] Bjørn Mork
> Tollef Fog Heen writes:
> > ]] Norbert Preining
> >
> >> > systemd needs cgroups, that's pretty well established. Arguably, it
> >> > should die with a clearer message.
> >>
> >> No, NO NOO
&
]] Thomas Goirand
> On 04/03/2014 05:58 PM, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > Am I understanding you correctly that you don't think there are any
> > situations where compiling out features from the kernel can lead to pid1
> > not working would be acceptable?
>
> I&#
fulfilled by using
> Strongswan/Freeswan.
Is there a migration guide anywhere? I have ipsec installations that
currently use racoon, but would happily switch them to something else if
that is considered better.
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e many
BMCs.
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e any latency on my desktop with that
setting.
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Archi
l
recipe for disaster if code gets run just by entering a directory.
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]] Punit Agrawal
> On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > ]] Punit Agrawal
> >
> >> Instead of putting every environment variable in your
> >> "~/.profile", have directory-specific ".envrc" files for your
> >
think dpkg provides the hooks you
need to do that today. I think it could be useful to have it, so you
could do «dpkg --needs-reconfigure A B C» and those would then be put in
a state where they'd be reconfigured at the next opportunity. Care
would of course have to be taken to avoid loops.
ploy virtual machines with specific versions otherwise you're
> constantly battling with trying to make sure that you're actually using
> the version that you think you're using.
You might also have success by using omnibus,
https://github.com/opscode/omnibus-ruby
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> I propose to harvest the fruit of this effort and introduce a /usr/bin/open
> command to open files.
Please don't, or if you insist, get kbd to stop shipping it, wait for at
least two releases and then introduce it with a new name.
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grab data from the configuration file.
I still believe what I suggested earlier, having a custom answer
database module in debconf would be the right solution here.
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oot
> when upgrading. I think this is a bug in init system choice and should
> be reported.
The default has changed and you chose to accept the defaults when you
upgraded.
> How to go back to sysvinit?
I think installing sysvinit-core should work, but I at least have never
tested that.
-
]] Andrew Shadura
> Hello,
>
> On 9 May 2014 14:32, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> >> Well, I've not been asked if I wanted to switch to systemd based boot
> >> when upgrading. I think this is a bug in init system choice and should
> >> be reported.
>
]] Thorsten Glaser
> Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
>
> >> Changes to the default init system should not affect existing setups.
> >
> >Were that true, it would be different to how we handle changes in other
> >defaults.
>
> A default is a default because
ems like a good idea.
Yes, sysvinit should change in that way. It and upstart (and any other
providers of /sbin/init) should also grow critical debconf warnings if
you install them and you were previously using systemd as your init so
it's symmetric.
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catch the normal
cases.
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]] Norbert Preining
> So I *strongly* advise to inform *and* ask the users!!
I would strongly advise you to stop spreading FUD as well as conserving
the global supply of exclamation marks.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
, so no, it's
not. It's using undefined behaviour and just like all other transitions
we've had in Debian we discover bugs when packages are using the
implementation defined (or undefined) behaviour rather than the
specified and documented behaviour.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user
ould help reduce the admin burden, maybe there are
> other approaches too?
Help fix bugs in fusionforge, hang out in #alioth try to help people and
we'd be happy to get more people involved.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
--
To
]] Daniel Pocock
> On 11/05/14 18:26, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > ]] Daniel Pocock
> >
> >> On 08/05/14 12:27, Оlе Ѕtrеісhеr wrote:
> >>
> >>> What is the reason that the processing there is so slow? Is there a way
> >>> to change that?
&
pted in the narrow window before the package automatically
> migrates to testing.
They're not responsible for it, no. That doesn't mean they can take an
update hostage by saying «this must be fixed or I'll continue raising
the severity of this bug» either. (I'm not saying y
precisely why so many people not only
> dislike systemd, but also it's maintainers.
Are you aware that Joss isn't a systemd maintainer? (He's one of the
GNOME maintainers.)
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
--
To UNSUBSC
t command line printf to do binary, but iprint
seems to be a match or a superset.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
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with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Co
rocessor
GPS is well-known as the GPS interchange format. Could you convince
upstream to rename the package to something else?
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Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
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with a subject
evel in
Policy and just let the architecture toolchain default to the
recommended value for that architecture, and only override when there's
a need.
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Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
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]] Colin Ian King
> Sluice reads from standard input and write to standard
> output at a specified data rate. This can be useful
> for benchmarking and exercising I/O streaming at desired
> throughput rates.
Any reason not to just use pv for this?
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is u
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