Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2025-01-08 Thread Salvo Tomaselli
> Well, "some places" includes basically all home users, at least in > Sweden where I live. This is not about ISPs blocking "some traffic", > they only block outgoing smtp traffic on default ports. The reasons are > obvious. > > That is, it's often a pain to set up outgoing SMTP. As a user you do

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-20 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Thu 12 Dec 2024 at 08:05pm -08, Don Armstrong wrote: > That said, the critique is received, and I've been very, very slowly > working on rewriting the entire system to address some of these issues. > [Being a parent has made my Debian time very precious, however, so > keeping things run

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-20 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Thu 12 Dec 2024 at 10:30pm +09, Charles Plessy wrote: > - at work, not using LLMs to write code is like refusing to wear shoes >at the Olympics because Greeks did not and saying that shoes pollute >and the run is no less fun when everybody agreed to be bare feet. >True, but

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-18 Thread Ananthu C V
On Wed, Dec 18, 2024 at 09:06:48PM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > reportbug can send emails through sendmail (if you have that > configured), or it can be set up so it can bypass that entirely and send > email directly to an SMTP server. If you use something like thunderbird, you can always do so

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-18 Thread Wouter Verhelst
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 05:50:55PM +0530, Pirate Praveen wrote: > > > On 12/11/24 5:20 PM, Marc Haber wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 17:04:52 +0530, Pirate Praveen > > wrote: > > > I think a reportbug web based front end that authenticates with salsa > > > via oauth and sends emails without any

A better bts? - https://fabre.debian.net (was: Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers)

2024-12-15 Thread Richard Lewis
Tiago Bortoletto Vaz writes: > Btw, for triage I used to suggest https://fabre.debian.net to > newcomers. I had some hope that it could be a start for something > bigger, so I tried to have access to the code to improve a few things > but never had an answer from the maintainer :\ This looks lik

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-14 Thread Tiago Bortoletto Vaz
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 06:05:51PM GMT, Otto Kekäläinen wrote: > Hi, > > > > While I personally think e-mail-based workflows can be quite nice, the > > > BTS' asynchronous nature did cause me a lot of extra pointless work > > > when I was an outsider attempting to learn the ropes. Being not 100% >

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-12 Thread Don Armstrong
On Tue, 10 Dec 2024, Gard Spreemann wrote: > Being not 100% confident with the system, > I way too often found myself waiting minutes – as much as 10 or 15 – for > replies to simple operations. The BTS processes messages every 3 minutes. There's nothing really stopping an inotify-based daemon alwa

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-12 Thread Paul Gevers
Hi On 11-12-2024 12:34, Pirate Praveen wrote: If reportbug can open your already configure email client (like thunderbird) that already helps a lot. I do that all the time: paul@toba ~ $ grep thunderbird ~/.reportbugrc mua thunderbird Paul OpenPGP_signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-12 Thread Charles Plessy
> On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 09:29:08PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: > > Last time I had to write a removal request I asked ChatGPT and it worked > > well! Le Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 02:29:08PM +, Holger Levsen a écrit : > > is this debian-devel@ or -curiosa@? (&scnr) Hi Holger and everybody, it

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread Marc Haber
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 23:00:58 +, Richard Lewis wrote: >Gard Spreemann writes: >> While I personally think e-mail-based workflows can be quite nice, the >> BTS' asynchronous nature did cause me a lot of extra pointless work >> when I was an outsider attempting to learn the ropes. Being not 100%

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Wed 11 Dec 2024 at 11:00pm GMT, Richard Lewis wrote: > Gard Spreemann writes: > >> While I personally think e-mail-based workflows can be quite nice, the >> BTS' asynchronous nature did cause me a lot of extra pointless work >> when I was an outsider attempting to learn the ropes. Bein

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread Otto Kekäläinen
Hi, > > While I personally think e-mail-based workflows can be quite nice, the > > BTS' asynchronous nature did cause me a lot of extra pointless work > > when I was an outsider attempting to learn the ropes. Being not 100% > > confident with the system, I way too often found myself waiting > > mi

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread Richard Lewis
Gard Spreemann writes: > While I personally think e-mail-based workflows can be quite nice, the > BTS' asynchronous nature did cause me a lot of extra pointless work > when I was an outsider attempting to learn the ropes. Being not 100% > confident with the system, I way too often found myself wa

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread Marc Haber
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 15:00:45 +0100, Alec Leamas wrote: >> On 12/11/24 6:35 PM, sre4e...@free.fr wrote: >>> Le 2024-12-11 13:52, Pirate Praveen a écrit : > reportbug can talk SMTP directly, is that not enough for you? without configuring an smtp server? If I run reportbug and clicks

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread Marc Haber
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 17:50:55 +0530, Pirate Praveen wrote: >On 12/11/24 5:20 PM, Marc Haber wrote: >> On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 17:04:52 +0530, Pirate Praveen >> wrote: >>> I think a reportbug web based front end that authenticates with salsa >>> via oauth and sends emails without any email client needi

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread Andrey Rakhmatullin
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 09:27:11AM -0500, Boyuan Yang wrote: > I would like to add that while self-sustained SMTP facilities is useful, the > reportbug tool has a strong assumption: it assumes that the bug reporter > must be using Debian (or one of the Debian derivative, though we know it > won't w

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread Jonas Smedegaard
Quoting Holger Levsen (2024-12-11 15:29:08) > On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 09:29:08PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: > > Last time I had to write a removal request I asked ChatGPT and it worked > > well! > > is this debian-devel@ or -curiosa@? (&scnr) > > that said, I do realize that the verb "to google

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread Philipp Kern
On 2024-12-11 15:27, Boyuan Yang wrote: I would like to add that while self-sustained SMTP facilities is useful, the reportbug tool has a strong assumption: it assumes that the bug reporter must be using Debian (or one of the Debian derivative, though we know it won't work well) when reporting

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread sre4ever
Le 2024-12-11 15:04, Pirate Praveen a écrit : Many firewalls (for example in offices) also block almost every port other than 80 or 443. So it'd still be valuable to have a web based reportbug interface. Well, usually they just block everything including ports 80 and 443, often one has to u

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread Holger Levsen
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 09:29:08PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: > Last time I had to write a removal request I asked ChatGPT and it worked > well! is this debian-devel@ or -curiosa@? (&scnr) that said, I do realize that the verb "to google" slowly is becoming "to ask $chatgpt" or rather, that als

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread Boyuan Yang
Hi, 在 12/11/2024 9:04 AM, Pirate Praveen 写道: On 12/11/24 7:30 PM, Alec Leamas wrote: On 12/11/24 6:35 PM, sre4e...@free.fr wrote: Le 2024-12-11 13:52, Pirate Praveen a écrit : reportbug can talk SMTP directly, is that not enough for you? without configuring an smtp server? If I run rep

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread sre4ever
Le 2024-12-11 15:00, Alec Leamas a écrit : Well, "some places" includes basically all home users, at least in Sweden where I live. This is not about ISPs blocking "some traffic", they only block outgoing smtp traffic on default ports. The reasons are obvious. Did you try to connect using TC

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread Pirate Praveen
On 12/11/24 7:30 PM, Alec Leamas wrote: On 12/11/24 6:35 PM, sre4e...@free.fr wrote: Le 2024-12-11 13:52, Pirate Praveen a écrit : reportbug can talk SMTP directly, is that not enough for you? without configuring an smtp server? If I run reportbug and clicks submit, does it send mail w

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread Alec Leamas
On 12/11/24 6:35 PM, sre4e...@free.fr wrote: Le 2024-12-11 13:52, Pirate Praveen a écrit : reportbug can talk SMTP directly, is that not enough for you? without configuring an smtp server? If I run reportbug and clicks submit, does it send mail without any extra configurations? It does,

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread Sune Vuorela
On 2024-12-11, Pirate Praveen wrote: > Thanks, in that case, it is my mistake. I was always thinking it needs > an mta configured, may be this was a recent addition. Not sure if it was > there from the beginning. It has been by default using the submission port for default for ages, though not

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread Pirate Praveen
On 12/11/24 6:35 PM, sre4e...@free.fr wrote: Le 2024-12-11 13:52, Pirate Praveen a écrit : reportbug can talk SMTP directly, is that not enough for you? without configuring an smtp server? If I run reportbug and clicks submit, does it send mail without any extra configurations? It does,

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread sre4ever
Le 2024-12-11 13:52, Pirate Praveen a écrit : reportbug can talk SMTP directly, is that not enough for you? without configuring an smtp server? If I run reportbug and clicks submit, does it send mail without any extra configurations? It does, and that works for me (though maybe not from some

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread Pirate Praveen
On 12/11/24 6:10 PM, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote: On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 05:50:55PM +0530, Pirate Praveen wrote: I think a reportbug web based front end that authenticates with salsa via oauth and sends emails without any email client needing to be configured will already help. Is it not alr

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread Andrey Rakhmatullin
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 05:50:55PM +0530, Pirate Praveen wrote: > > > I think a reportbug web based front end that authenticates with salsa > > > via oauth and sends emails without any email client needing to be > > > configured will already help. > > > > Is it not already the case that you can us

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread Charles Plessy
Le Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 05:50:55PM +0530, Pirate Praveen a écrit : > > As I said, it is not impossible, but a painful process. I use reportbug only > when I have to generate a template for rm requests, otherwise I always write > an email. We should avoid asking new people to run through hoops when

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread Pirate Praveen
On 12/11/24 5:20 PM, Marc Haber wrote: On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 17:04:52 +0530, Pirate Praveen wrote: I think a reportbug web based front end that authenticates with salsa via oauth and sends emails without any email client needing to be configured will already help. Is it not already the case

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread Marc Haber
On Wed, 11 Dec 2024 17:04:52 +0530, Pirate Praveen wrote: >I think a reportbug web based front end that authenticates with salsa >via oauth and sends emails without any email client needing to be >configured will already help. Is it not already the case that you can use reportbug without e-mail

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-11 Thread Pirate Praveen
On 12/11/24 8:47 AM, Charles Plessy wrote: Le Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 09:18:06AM +0100, Gard Spreemann a écrit : The BTS is core to Debian. It is e-mail based. While I personally think e-mail-based workflows can be quite nice, the BTS' asynchronous nature did cause me a lot of extra pointless w

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-10 Thread Charles Plessy
Le Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 09:18:06AM +0100, Gard Spreemann a écrit : > > The BTS is core to Debian. It is e-mail based. While I personally think > e-mail-based workflows can be quite nice, the BTS' asynchronous nature > did cause me a lot of extra pointless work when I was an outsider > attempting t

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-10 Thread Andrey Rakhmatullin
On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 08:59:23AM -0500, Boyuan Yang wrote: > > Here's the default crontabs for debbugs. > > There do exists an handfull of other instances of debbugs, some might > > deviate from default settings. > > > > Greetings  > > > > /usr/lib/debbugs/processall >/dev/null > > 7,22,37,52

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-10 Thread Boyuan Yang
Hi, 在 2024-12-10二的 10:49 +0100,Alexandre Detiste写道: > Hi, > > Here's the default crontabs for debbugs. > There do exists an handfull of other instances of debbugs, some might deviate > from default settings. > > Greetings  > > /usr/lib/debbugs/processall >/dev/null > 7,22,37,52 * * * *  > > h

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-10 Thread Gard Spreemann
Marc Haber writes: > On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 09:18:06 +0100, Gard Spreemann > wrote: >>The BTS is core to Debian. > > And it is one of the best Bugtrackers I have ever encountered. I agree. > It could be faster, yes, but its features trump the waiting time by > far. Without knowing anything abou

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-10 Thread Marc Haber
On Tue, 10 Dec 2024 09:18:06 +0100, Gard Spreemann wrote: >The BTS is core to Debian. And it is one of the best Bugtrackers I have ever encountered. It could be faster, yes, but its features trump the waiting time by far. Greetings Marc -- ---

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-10 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Tue 10 Dec 2024 at 01:58pm +05, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote: > On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 09:18:06AM +0100, Gard Spreemann wrote: >> Since several people seem to be sharing their experiences with >> (undesirable) challenges in becoming a DD, I thought I'd add a point >> that seemingly hasn't

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-10 Thread Alexandre Detiste
Hi, Here's the default crontabs for debbugs. There do exists an handfull of other instances of debbugs, some might deviate from default settings. Greetings /usr/lib/debbugs/processall >/dev/null 7,22,37,52 * * * * https://bugs.debian.org/debbugs-source/debian/debian/crontab Le mar. 10 déc. 202

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-10 Thread Gard Spreemann
Andrey Rakhmatullin writes: > On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 09:18:06AM +0100, Gard Spreemann wrote: >> Since several people seem to be sharing their experiences with >> (undesirable) challenges in becoming a DD, I thought I'd add a point >> that seemingly hasn't been covered yet: >> >> The BTS is cor

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-10 Thread Andrey Rakhmatullin
On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 09:18:06AM +0100, Gard Spreemann wrote: > Since several people seem to be sharing their experiences with > (undesirable) challenges in becoming a DD, I thought I'd add a point > that seemingly hasn't been covered yet: > > The BTS is core to Debian. It is e-mail based. While

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-10 Thread Gard Spreemann
Since several people seem to be sharing their experiences with (undesirable) challenges in becoming a DD, I thought I'd add a point that seemingly hasn't been covered yet: The BTS is core to Debian. It is e-mail based. While I personally think e-mail-based workflows can be quite nice, the BTS' asy

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-09 Thread Andreas Tille
Hi, Am Wed, Dec 04, 2024 at 11:18:23AM -0700 schrieb Soren Stoutner: > Robert, Thanks a lot to Robert to ask here on the list and sorry for my delayed answer. I had to catch up with real life but since the question was originally to me in person I feel the need to finally get involved into the t

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-08 Thread Antonio Terceiro
On Fri, Dec 06, 2024 at 05:01:10PM +0530, Pirate Praveen wrote: > 2024, ഡിസം 5 2:05:19 AM Lucas Kanashiro : > > https://debconf24.debconf.org/talks/74-attracting-and-retaining-new-contributors-insights-from-brazil/ > > > > There was some follow-up discussion in Hacker News after a LWN post about >

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-06 Thread Pirate Praveen
2024, ഡിസം 5 2:05:19 AM Lucas Kanashiro : > https://debconf24.debconf.org/talks/74-attracting-and-retaining-new-contributors-insights-from-brazil/ > > There was some follow-up discussion in Hacker News after a LWN post about > this talk was published: > > https://lwn.net/Articles/987548/ > https:/

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-05 Thread Soren Stoutner
On Thursday, December 5, 2024 1:30:15 AM MST Pirate Praveen wrote: > 2024, ഡിസം 4 9:33:25 PM Robert Chéramy : > > 2) What should I read first if I want to make a new package? > > I usually suggest a step by step guide to people who are new, in this I > suggest building existing packages from sourc

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-05 Thread Pirate Praveen
2024, ഡിസം 4 9:33:25 PM Robert Chéramy : > 2) What should I read first if I want to make a new package? > I usually suggest a step by step guide to people who are new, in this I suggest building existing packages from source and updating existing packages before creating a new package from scratc

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-04 Thread Lucas Kanashiro
Hi, On 04/12/2024 15:18, Soren Stoutner wrote: Robert, I appreciate your addition to the discussion. On Wednesday, December 4, 2024 8:53:07 AM MST Robert Chéramy wrote: 1) Documentation There was a lot of reading involved (no problem here - it is great to have a detailed documentation) but it

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-04 Thread Mechtilde Stehmann
Hello Soren, Am 04.12.24 um 19:18 schrieb Soren Stoutner: Robert, I appreciate your addition to the discussion. On Wednesday, December 4, 2024 8:53:07 AM MST Robert Chéramy wrote: 1) Documentation 2. A vast amount of the step-by-step documentation written for beginners regarding how to

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-04 Thread Soren Stoutner
Robert, I appreciate your addition to the discussion. On Wednesday, December 4, 2024 8:53:07 AM MST Robert Chéramy wrote: > 1) Documentation > There was a lot of reading involved (no problem here - it is great to > have a detailed documentation) but it was very confusing that there were > differe

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-04 Thread Andrey Rakhmatullin
On Wed, Dec 04, 2024 at 04:53:07PM +0100, Robert Chéramy wrote: > 1) Documentation > There was a lot of reading involved (no problem here - it is great to have a > detailed documentation) but it was very confusing that there were different > guides addressing the same things: > > Debian Developper

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

2024-12-04 Thread Robert Chéramy
want me to read your answer or to clarify a point, please take me on Cc:. Hi Andreas, I'm not sure if you are looking for feedback on attracting newcomers. I was tempted to answer the last "Bits from the DPL", and as the topic comes up again in this new "Bits from the DPL&

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-09-06 Thread Jonathan Dowland
On Sun Sep 1, 2024 at 6:14 PM BST, Otto Kekäläinen wrote: > The discussion was summarized in a separate "Summay" email by me on this > list, and a comment in the MR (which merges the two discussions) and it > just happened that the next day it was also covered in > https://lwn.net/Articles/986480/

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-09-04 Thread Ahmed Siam
goal: https://salsa.debian.org/salsa-ci-team/pipeline/-/issues/230 Let me know if you have any feedback in this regard. Best regards, Ahmed Siam

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-09-04 Thread Blair Noctis
On 04/09/2024 17:21, PICCA Frederic-Emmanuel wrote: > Hello, > >> Well, I didn't mean we should *give up* decentralization. I mean we shouldn't >> give up *centralization*. These examples are to prove centralization actually >> works and is quite common, sometimes necessary. > > It would be great

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-09-04 Thread PICCA Frederic-Emmanuel
Hello, > Well, I didn't mean we should *give up* decentralization. I mean we shouldn't > give up *centralization*. These examples are to prove centralization actually > works and is quite common, sometimes necessary. It would be great if we could run the salsa-ci pipeline localy easily, in chroo

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-09-04 Thread Blair Noctis
(Please send To/Cc me if you'd like to continue on this branch of conversation, I'm not subscribed to -devel, only digests.) On Wed, 04 Sep 2024 06:42:33 +0200, Jonas Smegegaard wrote: > Quoting Blair Noctis (2024-09-04 04:33:10) (...) >> > PICCA Frederic-Emmanuel writes: >> > >> >> What about dog

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-09-03 Thread Piper McCorkle
On Tuesday, 3 September 2024 23.42.33 CDT Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > I don't say that Debian must work for jungle developers, nor that we > must all use email and not different forms of collaboration requiring > better connectivity. My point is that Debian *allows* collaboration > also without heav

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-09-03 Thread Jonas Smedegaard
Hi Blair, Quoting Blair Noctis (2024-09-04 04:33:10) > On 02/09/2024 06:38, Richard Lewis wrote: > > PICCA Frederic-Emmanuel > > writes: > > > >> What about dog fooding ? > >> > >> for now we can setup a schroot and sbuild very easily and start to build a > >> local repository in minutes. > >>

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-09-03 Thread Blair Noctis
On 02/09/2024 06:38, Richard Lewis wrote: > PICCA Frederic-Emmanuel > writes: > >> What about dog fooding ? >> >> for now we can setup a schroot and sbuild very easily and start to build a >> local repository in minutes. >> >> But when it comes to install gitlab and the CI system it is another

Re: DEP-18 discussion summary (Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages)

2024-09-03 Thread Peter Blackman
On 03/09/2024 15:36, Otto Kekäläinen wrote: My information was based on what Salsa admin posted at https://salsa.debian.org/salsa/support/-/issues/395 Hi Otto, Thanks for that link, which took me nearly a minute to open! Quoting from there. Could we keep the issue open for now and only clo

Re: DEP-18 discussion summary (Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages)

2024-09-03 Thread Otto Kekäläinen
Hi! > Hi Otto, > Until recently I generally found Salsa response to be adequate, > but for the last couple of days it has been so > excruciatingly slow as to be almost unusable. > > > In response, Otto Kekäläinen noted that the Salsa admins > > had posted about upcoming hardware upgrades and other

Re: DEP-18 discussion summary (Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages)

2024-09-03 Thread Peter B
On 28/08/2024 03:13, Otto Kekäläinen wrote: ## Performance and Reliability Multiple participants, including Salvo Tomaselli, Johannes Schauer Marin Rodrigues, Andrea Pappacoda, and Gioele Barabucci, complained about Salsa/GitLab being slow or unreliable at times, which deterred contribution. Imp

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-09-01 Thread Richard Lewis
PICCA Frederic-Emmanuel writes: > What about dog fooding ? > > for now we can setup a schroot and sbuild very easily and start to build a > local repository in minutes. > > But when it comes to install gitlab and the CI system it is another story. So > we rely on the central salsa instance. f

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-09-01 Thread PICCA Frederic-Emmanuel
What about dog fooding ? for now we can setup a schroot and sbuild very easily and start to build a local repository in minutes. But when it comes to install gitlab and the CI system it is another story. So we rely on the central salsa instance. It seems to me that a great strength of Debian i

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-09-01 Thread Richard Lewis
> My overall impression is that this is a bold attempt, but the document could > do > with some copy-editing to whittle it down, make it more focussed, and possibly > narrow the scope. E.g. perhaps Gitlab CI is too much in one go? Could that be > done further down the line in a follow-up DEP? I

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-09-01 Thread Otto Kekäläinen
Hi Jonathan! The discussion was summarized in a separate "Summay" email by me on this list, and a comment in the MR (which merges the two discussions) and it just happened that the next day it was also covered in https://lwn.net/Articles/986480/ I am currently writing revision 2 of the proposal.

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-31 Thread Jonathan Dowland
Thanks for working on this. I finally had a read over it today. I've found the split in discussion between this list and the Merge Request comments hard to manage. It would help a lot, I think, if some of the MR threads were marked resolved, assuming the issues they describe are resolved. Tha

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-30 Thread Otto Kekäläinen
Hi! > NOTE: The following idea might be out-of-scope in DEP-18, but specific > use-case to improve > collaboration in Debian, IMHO. > > Here is just an idea: put collaboration policy metadata in debian/control. > (The following idea assumes that non-maintainer DD tend to hesitate to > commit/merge

Re: DEP-18 discussion summary (Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages)

2024-08-28 Thread Fabio Fantoni
Il 28/08/2024 04:13, Otto Kekäläinen ha scritto: Hi! While I intend to continue on iterating DEP-18, here is a summary to those who did not wade through the 140+ messages on the topic. Unfortunately, the summary itself is also a bit long :) Big thanks for your work and of other people that are t

DEP-18 discussion summary (Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages)

2024-08-27 Thread Otto Kekäläinen
Hi! While I intend to continue on iterating DEP-18, here is a summary to those who did not wade through the 140+ messages on the topic. Unfortunately, the summary itself is also a bit long :) Summary of mailing list

Salsa connection errors or slowness has improved (Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18)

2024-08-13 Thread Otto Kekäläinen
Hi! In the DEP-18 thread surprisingly many (e.g. Salvo, Johannes, Andrea, Gioele) complained about Salsa being slow to load, or having connectivity issues. I am thus happy to note that the Salsa admins posted in https://salsa.debian.org/salsa/support/-/issues/395 a comment stating that salsa.debi

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-07 Thread Sean Whitton
[resending to your correct address] Hello, On Mon 05 Aug 2024 at 06:14am +05, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote: > It's similar but different: I'm talking about workflows to build a package > from the repo (e.g. "gbp with gbp-pq and importing upstream tarballs"). > And yeah it could be a metadata field.

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-07 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Mon 05 Aug 2024 at 06:14am +05, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote: > It's similar but different: I'm talking about workflows to build a package > from the repo (e.g. "gbp with gbp-pq and importing upstream tarballs"). > And yeah it could be a metadata field. Just to note that once people are u

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-07 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Sat 03 Aug 2024 at 11:29am -07, Soren Stoutner wrote: > 1. Debian workflows are too fractured. The project would be better if we > asked people > to standardize around a single (or a small number) of workflows. To do so, > the workflow > would need to be flexible enough to handle t

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-07 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Sat 03 Aug 2024 at 09:19am +02, PICCA Frederic-Emmanuel wrote: > Hello, I like the dgit idea, produce a git repository for people who want to > use git and let other use whatever they want. > > Maybe uploading a paquage to Debian could push automatically into dgit. (maybe > this is alre

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-07 Thread Sean Whitton
Hello, On Sat 03 Aug 2024 at 08:26am +02, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > My problem with DEP-18 is that people who have zero problem with using > git and are also not fundamentally against using salsa, but have > reservations surrounding *which parts* of salsa to use and the > consequences for related

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-05 Thread Fabio Fantoni
Il 05/08/2024 10:40, Simon Richter ha scritto: Hi, On 8/5/24 17:10, Fabio Fantoni wrote: currently you find such information from a simple search and/or looking a bit in the source, in the possible git in a few minutes only in part of cases, in many other cases instead it requires more time,

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-05 Thread Simon Richter
Hi, On 8/5/24 17:10, Fabio Fantoni wrote: currently you find such information from a simple search and/or looking a bit in the source, in the possible git in a few minutes only in part of cases, in many other cases instead it requires more time, the possible contact of the maintainer, attempt

Machine readable contributor information (was: Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages)

2024-08-05 Thread Niels Thykier
Fabio Fantoni: Il 05/08/2024 03:14, Andrey Rakhmatullin ha scritto: [...] Thanks for reply, what I mean is precisely a standard field that points to a file, inside the package or even an url as already explained can be very useful in most cases) that contains all the useful information for c

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-05 Thread Fabio Fantoni
Il 05/08/2024 03:14, Andrey Rakhmatullin ha scritto: On Sun, Aug 04, 2024 at 04:15:13PM +0200, Fabio Fantoni wrote: Il 04/08/2024 15:36, Andrey Rakhmatullin ha scritto: On Sat, Aug 03, 2024 at 04:15:33PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: one problem I have with NMUs in team-maintained package is th

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-04 Thread Andrey Rakhmatullin
On Sun, Aug 04, 2024 at 04:15:13PM +0200, Fabio Fantoni wrote: > Il 04/08/2024 15:36, Andrey Rakhmatullin ha scritto: > > On Sat, Aug 03, 2024 at 04:15:33PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: > > > one problem I have with NMUs in team-maintained package is that they > > > often bypass Salsa… Would it ma

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-04 Thread Fabio Fantoni
Il 04/08/2024 15:36, Andrey Rakhmatullin ha scritto: On Sat, Aug 03, 2024 at 04:15:33PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: one problem I have with NMUs in team-maintained package is that they often bypass Salsa… Would it make sense to add to the DEP a request that NMUs are started from and pushed to

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-04 Thread Andrey Rakhmatullin
On Sat, Aug 03, 2024 at 04:15:33PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: > one problem I have with NMUs in team-maintained package is that they > often bypass Salsa… Would it make sense to add to the DEP a request > that NMUs are started from and pushed to the default branch? Only if DEP-18 also includes

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-04 Thread Andrey Rakhmatullin
On Sat, Aug 03, 2024 at 10:37:42PM +0200, Salvo Tomaselli wrote: > > 2. Standardizing around a single (or small number of) workflows will make > > some people unhappy. But that is an acceptable price to pay because of the > > general benefit to the project *as long as the correct solution is > >

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-04 Thread Paul Gevers
Hi all, On 03-08-2024 22:37, Salvo Tomaselli wrote: At the bottom, is it ok for a package to have a single maintainer or not? I have never wanted to be the single maintainer of a package, and here I am, I'm member of a bunch of teams, but most of my packages uploads (not a lot luckily) are f

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-03 Thread Otto Kekäläinen
Hi! > I have three feelings. > > > 1. Debian workflows are too fractured. The project would be better if we > asked people to standardize around a single (or a small number) of workflows. > To do so, the workflow would need to be flexible enough to handle the wide > range of technical needs

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-03 Thread Soren Stoutner
On Saturday, August 3, 2024 1:37:42 PM MST Salvo Tomaselli wrote: > > 2. Standardizing around a single (or small number of) workflows will make > > some people unhappy. But that is an acceptable price to pay because of the > > general benefit to the project *as long as the correct solution is >

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-03 Thread Soren Stoutner
On Friday, August 2, 2024 11:26:01 PM MST Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > I imagine that some in the silent crowd hesitate to chime in due to that > lumping together the use of git and the use of Gitlab into an > all-or-nothing choice. I think you intended that reduction, for the > purpose of simplifyin

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-03 Thread Jonas Smedegaard
Quoting Fabio Fantoni (2024-08-03 16:45:24) > Il 03/08/2024 15:59, Jonas Smedegaard ha scritto: > > Quoting Fabio Fantoni (2024-08-03 15:39:00) > >> Il 03/08/2024 14:40, Kentaro Hayashi ha scritto: > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> Even though +1 for DEP-18 basically, I think that it might be better > >>> to a

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-03 Thread Fabio Fantoni
Il 03/08/2024 15:59, Jonas Smedegaard ha scritto: Quoting Fabio Fantoni (2024-08-03 15:39:00) Il 03/08/2024 14:40, Kentaro Hayashi ha scritto: Hi, Even though +1 for DEP-18 basically, I think that it might be better to add an option to formalize package owner's (single person maintainer) colla

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-03 Thread Jonas Smedegaard
Quoting Fabio Fantoni (2024-08-03 15:39:00) > Il 03/08/2024 14:40, Kentaro Hayashi ha scritto: > > Hi, > > > > Even though +1 for DEP-18 basically, I think that it might be better > > to add an option > > to formalize package owner's (single person maintainer) collaboration policy > > especially ab

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-03 Thread Fabio Fantoni
Il 03/08/2024 15:16, Jonas Smedegaard ha scritto: Quoting Kentaro Hayashi (2024-08-03 14:40:51) Hi, Even though +1 for DEP-18 basically, I think that it might be better to add an option to formalize package owner's (single person maintainer) collaboration policy especially about non-team mainta

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-03 Thread Fabio Fantoni
Il 03/08/2024 14:40, Kentaro Hayashi ha scritto: Hi, Even though +1 for DEP-18 basically, I think that it might be better to add an option to formalize package owner's (single person maintainer) collaboration policy especially about non-team maintained packages under https://salsa.debian.org/deb

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-03 Thread Jonas Smedegaard
Quoting Kentaro Hayashi (2024-08-03 14:40:51) > Hi, > > Even though +1 for DEP-18 basically, I think that it might be better > to add an option > to formalize package owner's (single person maintainer) collaboration policy > especially about non-team maintained packages under > https://salsa.debia

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-03 Thread Tobias Frost
On Sat, Aug 03, 2024 at 09:40:51PM +0900, Kentaro Hayashi wrote: > Hi, > > Even though +1 for DEP-18 basically, I think that it might be better > to add an option > to formalize package owner's (single person maintainer) collaboration policy > especially about non-team maintained packages under >

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-03 Thread Kentaro Hayashi
Hi, Tobias. Thank you for kindly advice, I've misunderstood about debian/ namespace. Please ignore the previous my post. [1] I felt sorry posting just a noise. [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2024/08/msg00052.html Regards, 2024年8月3日(土) 21:54 Tobias Frost : > > On Sat, Aug 03, 2024 at

Re: Request for feedback on draft: DEP-18: Enable true open collaboration on all Debian packages

2024-08-03 Thread Kentaro Hayashi
Hi, Even though +1 for DEP-18 basically, I think that it might be better to add an option to formalize package owner's (single person maintainer) collaboration policy especially about non-team maintained packages under https://salsa.debian.org/debian/. If such a package repository enables merge r

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