On 07-Dec-02, 16:05 (CST), David B Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:51:03 +0100
> Martin Schulze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > It is a bad practice to repeat the package name as the first word in
> > the long description.
>
> Why is that again?
Because anything[1] tha
Martin Schulze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Joshua Haberman wrote:
>>> It is a bad practice to repeat the package name as the first word in the
>>> long description.
>>> Also the URL does not belong into the description but should be
>>> placed in the debian/copyright file instead.
>> What if
On Sat, Dec 07, 2002 at 11:51:03AM +0100, Martin Schulze wrote:
> It is a bad practice to repeat the package name as the first word in the
> long description.
Actually it's bad in the short description, not necessarily in the long one.
> Also the URL does not belong into the description but sho
On Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:51:03 +0100
Martin Schulze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It is a bad practice to repeat the package name as the first word in
> the long description.
Why is that again?
> Also the URL does not belong into the description but should be
> placed in the debian/copyright file
Joshua Haberman wrote:
> > It is a bad practice to repeat the package name as the first word in the
> > long description.
> >
> > Also the URL does not belong into the description but should be
> > placed in the debian/copyright file instead.
>
> What if someone wants to visit the webpage befor
On Sat, 2002-12-07 at 05:51, Martin Schulze wrote:
> It is a bad practice to repeat the package name as the first word in the
> long description.
Fair enough. Fixed.
> Also the URL does not belong into the description but should be
> placed in the debian/copyright file instead.
>
> To quote
* Martin Schulze ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Your example lists:
>
> Package: foo
> Description: GNOME/KDE/WindowMaker/GNU/Linux>
> foo is a program, designed to help
> you . . Written for
> the , it supports and .
> [..]
> .
> http://www.foo.org.>
>
> It is a bad practice to repeat
Colin Walters wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
> project. They're going to be one of the first things people see when
> they use Debian, and their quality directly reflects on the quality of
> Debian. I've been putting in some random effor
Herbert Xu wrote:
> > Don't forget:
> >
> > 3. It can easily fails if a sentence happens to end at the end of a line.
> > Like the previous sentence, which only a computer programmer would
> > think to add two spaces at the end of. :-)
>
> Not if you also require abbreviations to not extend a
Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Don't forget:
>
> 3. It can easily fails if a sentence happens to end at the end of a line.
> Like the previous sentence, which only a computer programmer would
> think to add two spaces at the end of. :-)
Not if you also require abbreviations to not
On 06-Dec-02, 11:25 (CST), Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Don't forget:
>
> 3. It can easily fails if a sentence happens to end at the end of a line.
>Like the previous sentence, which only a computer programmer would
>think to add two spaces at the end of. :-)
Nah, programmers k
Steve Greenland wrote:
> While technically valid, I don't like his much, for a couple of
> reasons:
>
> 1. I suspect it will be very hard to get this consistently used
> in Debian descriptions, as there are a lot of people who do not
> naturally use the 'period-two-spaces' convention. (I suspect i
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 11:12:17PM -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
> On Thu, 2002-12-05 at 14:59, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote:
>
> > Not only "users", software might use them too. We currently don't have
> > a good search interface in our package interface UIs (good search != search
> >
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 03:23:08PM -0500, David B Harris wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:59:09 +0100
> Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > a good search interface in our package interface UIs (good search !=
> > search by words).
>
> ... as opposed to searching based on th
Steve Greenland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 05-Dec-02, 16:49 (CST), "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> It is not possible for an automated renderer to figure out where
>> sentence boundaries are without some kind of help, and a mere period
>> is not sufficient help. So, a go
Steve Greenland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 1. I suspect it will be very hard to get this consistently used
> in Debian descriptions, as there are a lot of people who do not
> naturally use the 'period-two-spaces' convention. (I suspect it is
> entirely determined by how much typing one did on r
On Thu, 2002-12-05 at 14:59, Javier FernÃndez-Sanguino PeÃa wrote:
> Not only "users", software might use them too. We currently don't have
> a good search interface in our package interface UIs (good search != search by
> words). I tried to make (quite a long time ago and it's pretty much
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 20:26, Simon Richter wrote:
> Colin,
>
> > http://people.debian.org/~walters/descriptions.html
>
> Well, I'm not sure there should be a template -- people will use it (and
> thus try to squeeze information into it). I usually tell my sponsees
> that a description should answ
Steve Greenland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> In standard typography, it is to have extra space after a period ending
> a sentence. For fixed-width fonts, this often shows up as two spaces,
> as is fairly ugly.
Of course, that's simply an opinion, and depends a lot on exactly
_which_ fixed fonts
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 14:38, Joey Hess wrote:
> Your emphasis on audiences is very good, but I am leery of the treatment
> of package descriptions as advertisements. A package description that
> reads like an in-your-face advertisement can suck at being a package
> description. You're right in so
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 02:49:12PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> Steve Greenland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > However, this is all on *output* (display, whatever). The input text
> > should have just a single space. The text has to be reformatted to fit
> > the screen (display area) anywa
David B Harris writes:
> Could you point me at the documentation in question?
Debian Packaging Manual
---
Ian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Revised: David A. Morris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Steve Greenland wrote:
> (Of course, if this is the worst problem we have with Debian package
> descriptions, I say flip a coin and forget about it.)
I have a better idea -- just forget it altogether. It doesn't need to be
standardized in Debian; it certainly isn't standardized in the
publishing
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 02:49:12PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> It is not possible for an automated renderer to figure out where
> sentence boundaries are without some kind of help, and a mere period
> is not sufficient help. So, a good convention to establish might be
> that the string ".
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 03:21:24PM -0500, David B Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
was heard to say:
> On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:13:57 +0100
> Michael Piefel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Line breaks already aren't preserved, and there already exist a very
> > specific set of rules for that. Look into your
On 05-Dec-02, 16:49 (CST), "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It is not possible for an automated renderer to figure out where
> sentence boundaries are without some kind of help, and a mere period
> is not sufficient help. So, a good convention to establish might be
> that the s
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 10:03:32PM +0100, tomas pospisek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
was heard to say:
> On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > But do your bug reports keep up with the flow of new packages into the
> > archive? That is, is the overall description quality increasing or
> > decreasi
Steve Greenland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> However, this is all on *output* (display, whatever). The input text
> should have just a single space. The text has to be reformatted to fit
> the screen (display area) anyway (even on a terminal), and it's the job
> of the reformatter/text renderer/w
On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:58:43PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
>
> > Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > > I'd be willing to invest some time in co-maintenance of a package
> > > description override list.
> >
> > I've had a pretty good amount of response to my descri
On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:59:09 +0100
Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> a good search interface in our package interface UIs (good search !=
> search by words).
... as opposed to searching based on the contents of people's minds? :)
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On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:13:57 +0100
Michael Piefel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Line breaks already aren't preserved, and there already exist a very
> specific set of rules for that. Look into your documentation, and have
> a look at dselect.
I already have example applications which don't preserve
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:58:43PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > I'd be willing to invest some time in co-maintenance of a package
> > description override list.
>
> I've had a pretty good amount of response to my description bug reports.
But do your bug reports keep up wit
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 12:55:50PM -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
> project. They're going to be one of the first things people see when
> they use Debian, and their quality directly reflects on the quality of
> Debia
Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> I'd be willing to invest some time in co-maintenance of a package
> description override list.
I've had a pretty good amount of response to my description bug reports.
--
see shy jo
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On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 07:59:20PM -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
[snip]
> > Ooh, goody :) Does this mean #45943 will finally be fixed?
>
> Well, we obviously can't force anyone to do anything; but I hope that
> having the reasoning more clearly laid out will motivate people...
[snip]
Does submit
David B Harris wrote:
> If variable-width fonts are used, then line breaks shouldn't be
> preserved. If they're not going to be preserved, there needs to be a
> very specific set of rules as to how lines are joined. These already
> exist in code, actually; I believe packages.debian.org joins lines.
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 02:09:50PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> Ari Pollak wrote:
> > I think the real issue here isn't so much actual package descriptions,
> > but the ITPs. Most package descriptions I've seen have been pretty
> > accurate, and tend to change a lot between the time of the ITP and
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 12:18:08PM +0100, Michael Piefel wrote:
> Am 4.12.02 um 14:38:07 schrieb Joey Hess:
> > angband: "Sauron [...] most powerful of his servants"
>
> Nice script, Joey, but perhaps you should have looked at the
> description for yourself. :-)
Heh, I succesfully managed to :q!
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 07:19:38PM +, Scott James Remnant wrote:
> In correct English grammar and typography the space after a full stop
> ("period" in Merkin) is supposed to be a wider space then that between
> words and after commas and suchlike.
There is no such thing as "correct" typograph
Am 4.12.02 um 14:38:07 schrieb Joey Hess:
> angband: "Sauron [...] most powerful of his servants"
Nice script, Joey, but perhaps you should have looked at the
description for yourself. :-)
Cheers,
Mike
--
|=| Michael Piefel
|=| Humboldt-Universität zu Berlin
|=| Tel. (+49 30) 2093 3831
Am 4.12.02 um 15:15:53 schrieb David B Harris:
> If variable-width fonts are used, then line breaks shouldn't be
> preserved. If they're not going to be preserved, there needs to be a
> very specific set of rules as to how lines are joined. These already
> exist in code, actually; I believe packag
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 12:55:50PM -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
> I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
> project. They're going to be one of the first things people see when
> they use Debian, and their quality directly reflects on the quality of
> Debian. I've bee
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 08:05:43PM -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
> I think this is hard to without switching to a format which allows us to
> include more metadata (like XML). So we can explicitly use stuff like
> and for lists, instead of relying on ASCII renderings. That
> way we can safely wor
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 07:49:04PM -0600, John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was
heard to say:
> Daniel Burrows writes:
> > On the other hand, a proper markup language would be nice.
>
> I would be appalled were such a thing to be required.
I didn't say I thought it was politically possible to do
Colin Walters wrote:
> I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
> project. They're going to be one of the first things people see when
> they use Debian, and their quality directly reflects on the quality of
> Debian. I've been putting in some random efforts here and
Ari Pollak wrote:
> I think the real issue here isn't so much actual package descriptions,
> but the ITPs. Most package descriptions I've seen have been pretty
> accurate, and tend to change a lot between the time of the ITP and
> actual package release.
I disagree. Every time I look at the des
Daniel Burrows writes:
> On the other hand, a proper markup language would be nice.
I would be appalled were such a thing to be required.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 08:05:43PM -0500, Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was
heard to say:
> > On an unrelated topic, it would be nice if the description format
> > allowed whitespace to be collapsed/expanded on wordwrapped lines. The last
> > time I checked, it seemed to at least imply that
Colin,
> http://people.debian.org/~walters/descriptions.html
Well, I'm not sure there should be a template -- people will use it (and
thus try to squeeze information into it). I usually tell my sponsees
that a description should answer the following questions, roughly in
that order:
- What does
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 18:55, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> That might be true, but I would like to see language such as "best
> package for foo" explicitly deprecated in the guide. I've even written
> such stuff myself, back before I realized what the problems were.
> (hopefully there isn't anything
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 18:58, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 12:55:50PM -0500, Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> was heard to say:
> > I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
> > project. They're going to be one of the first things people see when
>
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 12:55:50PM -0500, Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was
heard to say:
> I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
> project. They're going to be one of the first things people see when
> they use Debian, and their quality directly reflects on th
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 05:30:39PM -0500, Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was
heard to say:
> On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 14:01, David B Harris wrote:
>
> > I do have some differences of opinion, though. It's sad, but there are a
> > getting to be a fairly large number of DDs who are "attention grabb
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 14:01, David B Harris wrote:
> I do have some differences of opinion, though. It's sad, but there are a
> getting to be a fairly large number of DDs who are "attention grabbers".
> Just a few days ago, I saw a package description that said something
> along the lines of "this
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 07:19:38PM +, Scott James Remnant wrote:
> If you are writing text in something that uses variable width fonts, the
> program should know about English grammar and render the wider space
> itself on any whitespace. (LaTeX is about the only thing that gets it
> right tho
Craig Dickson writes:
> Hmm, you just gave a rule specifically for fixed-width fonts, and now
> you're tacitly assuming that it applies to variable-width fonts as well?
You are supposed to use an n-space between words and an m-space between
sentences when typesetting. Using two spaces with fixed-
On 04-Dec-02, 13:01 (CST), David B Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Also, in the description template, two spaces are used after a period -
> is that standard nowadays?
(Yes, I've read some of the other responses to this.)
In standard typography, it is to have extra space after a period end
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 19:48, Craig Dickson wrote:
> Scott James Remnant wrote:
>
> > In correct English grammar and typography the space after a full stop
> > ("period" in Merkin) is supposed to be a wider space then that between
> > words and after commas and suchlike.
> >
> Hmm, you just gave
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:33:35 -0800
Craig Dickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't see any reason why package descriptions shouldn't be presented
> in variable-width fonts. The right margin might look a bit ragged
> (assuming the program preserves line breaks, which is probably a good
> idea to a
On 04 Dec 2002 19:19:38 +
Scott James Remnant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In correct English grammar and typography the space after a full stop
> ("period" in Merkin) is supposed to be a wider space then that between
> words and after commas and suchlike.
Ahh, allright, so there's still reaso
Scott James Remnant wrote:
> In correct English grammar and typography the space after a full stop
> ("period" in Merkin) is supposed to be a wider space then that between
> words and after commas and suchlike.
>
> Therefore typists were always taught to press the space key twice after
> a full s
David B Harris wrote:
> Also, in the description template, two spaces are used after a period -
> is that standard nowadays? (My understanding was that they were
> primarily used for variable-width fonts, where a single space would take
> up very little page space.
There was an interesting discus
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 19:01, David B Harris wrote:
> Also, in the description template, two spaces are used after a period -
> is that standard nowadays? (My understanding was that they were
> primarily used for variable-width fonts, where a single space would take
> up very little page space. Sin
Le mer 04/12/2002 à 19:11, Ari Pollak a écrit :
> I think the real issue here isn't so much actual package descriptions,
> but the ITPs. Most package descriptions I've seen have been pretty
> accurate, and tend to change a lot between the time of the ITP and
> actual package release.
The proble
On 04-Dec-02, 12:11 (CST), Ari Pollak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think the real issue here isn't so much actual package descriptions,
> but the ITPs. Most package descriptions I've seen have been pretty
> accurate, and tend to change a lot between the time of the ITP and
> actual package re
On 04 Dec 2002 12:55:50 -0500
Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://people.debian.org/~walters/descriptions.html
I do have some differences of opinion, though. It's sad, but there are a
getting to be a fairly large number of DDs who are "attention grabbers".
Just a few days ago, I saw
On 04 Dec 2002 12:55:50 -0500
Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://people.debian.org/~walters/descriptions.html
Thanks.
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I think the real issue here isn't so much actual package descriptions,
but the ITPs. Most package descriptions I've seen have been pretty
accurate, and tend to change a lot between the time of the ITP and
actual package release.
Colin Walters wrote:
I think the package descriptions are a very i
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