Hi!
On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 23:49:52 +0200, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> if you need to request an override change for your package, please use
> the BTS in future, no longer reply to the override disparity mail you
> will receive from the archive.
What about mass override change suggestions? Should thos
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 23:49, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> The format for such bug reports against the ftp.debian.org
> pseudopackage:
>
> Subject: override: PACKAGE1:section/priority, [...], PACKAGEX:section/priority
>
> Include the justification for the change in the body of the bug please.
>
> (I hope
On Wed, Jan 07 2009, Frans Pop wrote:
> Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 06 2009, Frans Pop wrote:
>>> I also still feel there should be a debian-selinux mailing list,
>>> probably targeted at both DDs and users. Would you care to take the
>>> lead on that and request one?
>>
>> The
Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 06 2009, Frans Pop wrote:
>> I also still feel there should be a debian-selinux mailing list,
>> probably targeted at both DDs and users. Would you care to take the
>> lead on that and request one?
>
> There are already alioth lists for this.
> selinux
On Tue, Jan 06 2009, Frans Pop wrote:
> I think we're getting pretty far OT from the original thread here. I'd
> prefer to discuss this further in a separate thread after the release of
> Lenny.
>
> I also still feel there should be a debian-selinux mailing list,
> probably targeted at both DDs
Hi!
On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 10:38:26AM +, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> > I disagree. I use strace a lot and it is very handy to verify that a
> > service really uses the config/data files it is supposed to use or does
> > it react to a network packet or not even if it does not log anything
> > etc.
I think we're getting pretty far OT from the original thread here. I'd
prefer to discuss this further in a separate thread after the release of
Lenny.
I also still feel there should be a debian-selinux mailing list, probably
targeted at both DDs and users. Would you care to take the lead on tha
Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña writes:
> On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 01:02:55PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> Oh, sorry, I confused it with a different program. Hm, ethtool I'd put
>> into the borderline category -- one argument in its favor is that you
>> may need it in order to fix your networking
On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 01:02:55PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > ethtool doesn't seem particularly related to tcpdump?
>
> Oh, sorry, I confused it with a different program. Hm, ethtool I'd put
> into the borderline category -- one argument in its favor is that you may
> need it in order to fix
On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 09:55:15AM +0100, Gabor Gombas wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 02:00:51PM -0600, Steve Langasek wrote:
>
> > I think we ought to even consider adding gdb in addition to strace, size
> > allowing, since these two tools are rather complementary in their use; but
> > certainl
On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 02:00:51PM -0600, Steve Langasek wrote:
> I think we ought to even consider adding gdb in addition to strace, size
> allowing, since these two tools are rather complementary in their use; but
> certainly, I'd prefer having strace over not having either.
I disagree. I use s
On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 06:05:35PM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
> It reduces the load on the LDAP server when using LDAP for PAM/NSS,
> and has proven to be required to avoid overloading the server and
> prompt response on the clients. The new nss-ldapd package help, but
> caching LDAP resul
Russ Allbery wrote:
I think the following are borderline:
hdparm
iftop
iotop
ncftp
nmap
strace
They're useful tools, many of which I use, but I'm not sure they're so
useful to warrant installing them on every system by default. You can
generally install them when you need them, [...]
While
On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 19:02 +, The Fungi wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 10:29:26AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> [...]
> > I think installing tcpdump is sufficient; adding ethtool on top of
> > it seems like overkill to me.
> [...]
>
> It seems mii-tool from the net-tools started falling by t
Le vendredi 02 janvier 2009 à 13:02 -0800, Russ Allbery a écrit :
> Oh, sorry, I confused it with a different program. Hm, ethtool I'd put
> into the borderline category -- one argument in its favor is that you may
> need it in order to fix your networking so that you can get somewhere to
> instal
Le vendredi 02 janvier 2009 à 18:05 +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen a écrit :
> [Michael Goetze]
> >> ... nscd ...
> >
> > I think that's a bad idea. It can cause some confusion when people make
> > config changes that don't take effect immediately, and is hard to debug.
>
> It reduces the load on the
Petter Reinholdtsen writes:
> The list of packages I proposed to add for Debian as a whole was this
> shorter list:
>
> consolekit, […]
‘consolekit’ currently (as of version 0.2.10-3) ‘Depends: libx11-6’. I
usually regard that dependency as an indicator of a package I don't
want installed on
[Russ Allbery]
> The vast majority of Debian installations don't use LDAP NSS maps,
> though. I know that Debian-Edu does heavily, which makes it quite
> reasonable for you to want to install it, but I'm not sure it makes
> sense for Debian as a whole.
Note that I did not propose to install nscd
On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 10:29:26AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
[...]
> I think installing tcpdump is sufficient; adding ethtool on top of
> it seems like overkill to me.
[...]
It seems mii-tool from the net-tools started falling by the wayside
for a while, as gigabit Ethernet had become standard in
On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 13:02 -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Steve Langasek writes:
> > On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 10:29:26AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
>
> >> I think installing tcpdump is sufficient; adding ethtool on top of it
> >> seems like overkill to me.
>
> > ethtool doesn't seem particularly r
Steve Langasek writes:
> On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 10:29:26AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> I think installing tcpdump is sufficient; adding ethtool on top of it
>> seems like overkill to me.
> ethtool doesn't seem particularly related to tcpdump?
Oh, sorry, I confused it with a different program
On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 10:29:26AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> I'm honestly mystified as to why any of the following should be in
> standard, given how obscure what they do seems to be:
> > consolekit
> > gdebi
> > libpam-ck-connector
Going forward, consolekit is the "standard" way to grant loca
On 2009-01-02, Russ Allbery wrote:
> include X), so if they're what use consolekit, that's not an argument for
> making it standard. However, it may be a good argument for why it's not
> obscure. I did check a current unstable GNOME system and saw no sign of
It was mostly the obscure part I wan
Sune Vuorela writes:
> On 2009-01-02, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> I'm honestly mystified as to why any of the following should be in
>> standard, given how obscure what they do seems to be:
>>> consolekit
>>> libpam-ck-connector
> Consolekit will be more and more used, at least for desktop installs
On 2009-01-02, Russ Allbery wrote:
> I'm honestly mystified as to why any of the following should be in
> standard, given how obscure what they do seems to be:
>
>> consolekit
>> libpam-ck-connector
Consolekit will be more and more used, at least for desktop installs in
squeeze, they will probabl
Russ Allbery writes:
> Petter Reinholdtsen writes:
>> cfengine2
> I think that's rather hard to justify as priority: standard. There are a
> lot of other configuration management systems in the world (and IMO much
> better ones).
Ah, sorry, I see this isn't in your recommended list. This is
I think a lot of the ones you listed already are priority: standard or
higher. debian-archive-keyring, less, man-db, manpages, and wget, for
example. I stopped checking after spot-checking a few; you may want to
filter your list some more.
Here are some I definitely disagree with that jumped out
On Fri, 02 Jan 2009, Russ Allbery wrote:
> (Does nscd honor DNS TTLs properly yet? Last time I looked at it, its DNS
> caching was horribly broken, but it's been quite a while.)
It can't, it would be a layering violation. What one would need is to
selectively apply nscd only to some maps (and *d
Petter Reinholdtsen writes:
> [Michael Goetze]
>>> ... nscd ...
>> I think that's a bad idea. It can cause some confusion when people make
>> config changes that don't take effect immediately, and is hard to debug.
> It reduces the load on the LDAP server when using LDAP for PAM/NSS,
> and has
[Michael Goetze]
>> ... nscd ...
>
> I think that's a bad idea. It can cause some confusion when people make
> config changes that don't take effect immediately, and is hard to debug.
It reduces the load on the LDAP server when using LDAP for PAM/NSS,
and has proven to be required to avoid overlo
On Tue, 2008-12-30 at 13:34 +0100, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> Hi
>
> after some discussion within the ftpteam we just modified a few override
> entries (15 to be exact). The following packages moved from standard to
> optional:
I have had a look at the "LSB Core" specification version 3.2. The
sectio
Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
> In Debian Edu, we concluded that more packages than the Debian
> Standard packages are needed in all installations, and install these
> packages by default for any profile:
> ... nscd ...
I think that's a bad idea. It can cause some confusion when people make
config c
[Steve Langasek]
> Hmm, come to think of it, we ought to replace the 'ftp' package in
> standard with something more usable, such as lftp or ncftp...
In Debian Edu, we concluded that more packages than the Debian
Standard packages are needed in all installations, and install these
packages by def
Joerg Jaspert wrote:
finger
It's been a while since I've seen a useful finger server, I think it's
fine
to drop this too.
db.debian.org, but that doesnt need it standard.
For what it's worth finger's local features are still important.
I've recently seen a professor explain to a class o
On Thursday 01 January 2009 13:55, Frans Pop wrote:
> > They were, I have just made some significant changes.
>
> Thanks a lot for that. BTW, wouldn't it make sense to have separate wiki
> pages with setup info per release? The instructions for Etch probably are
> still valid.
It would. In prepa
Russell Coker wrote:
> On Wednesday 31 December 2008 11:32, Frans Pop wrote:
>> Russell Coker wrote:
>> I just did a standard i386 install using the instructions on the wiki
>> [1] (which BTW look to be rather outdated in several respects).
>
> They were, I have just made some significant changes.
On Wednesday 31 December 2008 11:32, Frans Pop wrote:
> Russell Coker wrote:
> > Frans Pop wrote:
> > > Not really. SELinux is not even close to functional after a standard
> > > installation. For one thing, it gets installed *after* the initrd gets
> > > generated and the initrd does not get rege
On Wed, 2008-12-31 at 15:18, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 01:34:35PM +0100, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> > In case you see a good reason why the above is wrong, feel free to reply
> > stating it. We currently can't see any of the packages living up to the
> > policy definition of s
On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 01:34:35PM +0100, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> In case you see a good reason why the above is wrong, feel free to reply
> stating it. We currently can't see any of the packages living up to the
> policy definition of standard.
I would welcome the following packages to remain Stan
On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 09:00:04PM +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
> For most languages tasksel will automatically install relevant
> dictionaries. It currently does not do so for English _because_
> those packages are priority standard (and have been for a long
> time). IMO we should be consistent betwee
[...]
>
> > I could buy that for mtr-tiny, but which average user can do anything
> > meaningful with strace so that it needs to be in standard? If you need
> > it you have bug, and the average user will report that $upstream
> > (debian, developer, wherever). And can then install it if asked to
>
Le mercredi 31 décembre 2008 à 10:09 +1100, Ben Finney a écrit :
> This one is probably not *directly* useful to users of a standard
> system, but I'm not sure what effect the change in priority has for
> the presence of this package on installation media.
This package is currently in standard onl
[...]
>
> Actually, I misspoke in saying that mtr-tiny is the only traceroute we have
> by default. iputils-traceroute is also installed at Priority: important; but
> iputils-traceroute is far less useful on modern networks than mtr-tiny is.
>
> If traceroute belongs in important, then mtr belon
> Joerg Jaspert writes:
> > python-support
>
> This one is probably not *directly* useful to users of a standard
> system, but I'm not sure what effect the change in priority has for
> the presence of this package on installation media.
If it is correctly defined as a dependency of other packages
Russell Coker wrote:
> Frans Pop wrote:
> > Not really. SELinux is not even close to functional after a standard
> > installation. For one thing, it gets installed *after* the initrd gets
> > generated and the initrd does not get regenerated, so the admin has to
> > do that manually after rebooting
On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 10:48:04PM +, Neil Williams wrote:
> I'd rather see strace and gdb leave Standard. If one has to stay, let
> it *not* be gdb.
>
> It's not as if there is a gdb-tiny.
Agreed. There could be a gdb-tiny - but it would still be about 3.5MB
installed, as opposed to the 8MB
Joerg Jaspert writes:
> python-support
This one is probably not *directly* useful to users of a standard
system, but I'm not sure what effect the change in priority has for
the presence of this package on installation media.
Since this package is a ‘Depends’ requirement for installation of a
gr
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 23:33:41 +0100
Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> Steve Langasek (30/12/2008):
> > > strace
> > > mtr-tiny
> >
> > I think these are useful troubleshooting tools that we ought to
> > install by default. mtr-tiny is the only traceroute tool included in
> > standard currently.
>
> I co
Steve Langasek (30/12/2008):
> > strace
> > mtr-tiny
>
> I think these are useful troubleshooting tools that we ought to
> install by default. mtr-tiny is the only traceroute tool included in
> standard currently.
I concur for strace (at least).
> I think we ought to even consider adding gdb in
On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 09:31:40PM +0100, Michael Tautschnig wrote:
> > > strace
> > > mtr-tiny
> > I think these are useful troubleshooting tools that we ought to install by
> > default. mtr-tiny is the only traceroute tool included in standard
> > currently.
> > For comparison, both of these p
On Tue, Dec 30, 2008, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> > It's difficult to see how any of these packages fail the *definition* of
> > standard.
> Its difficult to see how any of these packages fulfill the *definition*
> of standard.
>
> The definition is wide enough to let us discuss without end.
Yet you
On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 10:11:08PM +0100, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> > The policy definition of 'standard' is:
> > These packages provide a reasonably small but not too limited
> > character-mode system. This is what will be installed by default
> > if the user doesn't s
On Wednesday 31 December 2008 08:09, Frans Pop wrote:
> > I think this needs to be at Priority: standard as a necessary step in
> > SELinux bootstrapping, but I realize this is contentious.
>
> Not really. SELinux is not even close to functional after a standard
> installation. For one thing, it g
On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 09:00:04PM +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
> > For that reason I suggest that ispell, iamerican and ibritish entries
> > be modified *right now* to be optional instead of standard. wbritish
> > seems to be already optional.
>
> For most languages tasksel will automatically install
> Is there any rationale from these internal discussions about why these tools
> have been demoted? It's hard to refute an argument that hasn't been
> presented.
It was a discussion taking some time with us looking at the packages and
then seeing how many of us are in favour.
> The policy defin
Steve Langasek wrote:
>> selinux-policy-default
>
> I think this needs to be at Priority: standard as a necessary step in
> SELinux bootstrapping, but I realize this is contentious.
Not really. SELinux is not even close to functional after a standard
installation. For one thing, it gets installe
Mike Bird writes:
> Every system with a network uses mtr or traceroute. If the system's
> owner doesn't use them then the sysadmin does.
Well, YMMV. I'm a professional sysadmin and I hardly ever use traceroute.
I don't really care if it's installed or not, but it's not particularly
useful in a
On Tue December 30 2008 12:31:40 Michael Tautschnig wrote:
> Is "standard" in some sense also targeted at those who do lots of stuff
> other than hacking with their computer systems? If so, I doubt that the the
> output of strace will be very useful to those, and neither will those have
> any idea
[...]
>
> The policy definition of 'standard' is:
>
> These packages provide a reasonably small but not too limited
> character-mode system. This is what will be installed by default
> if the user doesn't select anything else. It doesn't include
> many la
Kalle Kivimaa writes:
> Agustin Martin writes:
>> There was the opinion that there should be a wordlist of standard
>> priority, and that the best for that was wamerican, formerly
>> wenglish. So wamerican may be left with standard priority.
> Why does standard need an English wordlist?
Becaus
On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 01:34:35PM +0100, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> after some discussion within the ftpteam we just modified a few override
> entries (15 to be exact). The following packages moved from standard to
> optional:
> In case you see a good reason why the above is wrong, feel free to repl
> For that reason I suggest that ispell, iamerican and ibritish entries
> be modified *right now* to be optional instead of standard. wbritish
> seems to be already optional.
For most languages tasksel will automatically install relevant
dictionaries. It currently does not do so for English _beca
Agustin Martin writes:
> There was the opinion that there should be a wordlist of standard priority,
> and that the best for that was wamerican, formerly wenglish. So wamerican
> may be left with standard priority.
Why does standard need an English wordlist?
--
* Sufficiently advanced magic is
On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 01:34:35PM +0100, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> after some discussion within the ftpteam we just modified a few override
> entries (15 to be exact). The following packages moved from standard to
> optional:
...
>
> For the time right after the release we also intend to move ispell
Hi
after some discussion within the ftpteam we just modified a few override
entries (15 to be exact). The following packages moved from standard to
optional:
strace
sharutils
policycoreutils
tcsh
python-support
python-newt
mtools
mtr-tiny
finger
libustr-1.0-1
libsemanage1
libdb4.7
python-semanage
On Sat, Oct 15, 2005 at 05:39:06PM +0200, Henning Makholm wrote:
> Scripsit Jeroen van Wolffelaar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > No, you misunderstand. Bastian means that if some binary packages are only
> > built on some archs, not including the one the upload is taking place for,
> > nobody will get
Scripsit Jeroen van Wolffelaar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> No, you misunderstand. Bastian means that if some binary packages are only
> built on some archs, not including the one the upload is taking place for,
> nobody will get an override disparity warning[1].
Is that even possible? The current unsta
Jeroen van Wolffelaar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> No, you misunderstand. Bastian means that if some binary packages
> are only built on some archs, not including the one the upload is
> taking place for, nobody will get an override disparity
> warning[1]. And he's correct, as override disparity
Em Sex, 2005-10-14 às 19:22 +0200, Jeroen van Wolffelaar escreveu:
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2005 at 01:55:30PM -0300, Guilherme de S. Pastore wrote:
> > Em Sex, 2005-10-14 às 11:34 +0200, Bastian Blank escreveu:
> > > And he get only warnings for binary packages he uploaded, not for the
> > > packages whi
On Fri, Oct 14, 2005 at 01:55:30PM -0300, Guilherme de S. Pastore wrote:
> Em Sex, 2005-10-14 às 11:34 +0200, Bastian Blank escreveu:
> > And he get only warnings for binary packages he uploaded, not for the
> > packages which are only built by the autobuilders.
>
> Perhaps because the override ch
Em Sex, 2005-10-14 às 11:34 +0200, Bastian Blank escreveu:
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2005 at 06:04:20AM -0300, Guilherme de S. Pastore wrote:
> > What doko meant, if I understand this correctly, is that, if a package
> > has already been uploaded when an ftpmaster modifies the overrides, the
> > maintainer
Processing commands for [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> reassign 333844 dak
Bug#333844: override changes are not announced to the package maintainers
Bug reassigned from package `general' to `dak'.
> severity 333844 wishlist
Bug#333844: override changes are not announced to the package main
reassign 333844 dak
severity 333844 wishlist
thanks
On Fri, Oct 14, 2005 at 04:00:15AM +0200, Matthias Klose wrote:
> override change are not announced to the package maintainers, _after_
> a package is uploaded.
Fwiw, they *are* listed on the PTS Package Tracking system,
packages.qa.debian.org/$
On Fri, Oct 14, 2005 at 06:04:20AM -0300, Guilherme de S. Pastore wrote:
> What doko meant, if I understand this correctly, is that, if a package
> has already been uploaded when an ftpmaster modifies the overrides, the
> maintainer will not get to know about it until s/he uploads a new
> package a
Em Qui, 2005-10-13 às 22:36 -0400, Benjamin Seidenberg escreveu:
> Matthias Klose wrote:
>
> >Package: general
> >
> >override change are not announced to the package maintainers, _after_
> >a package is uploaded.
> >
> I don't beleive this is true. I just got the following email from the
> archi
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:36:43 -0400, Benjamin Seidenberg
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Matthias Klose wrote:
>>Package: general
>>
>>override change are not announced to the package maintainers, _after_
>>a package is uploaded.
I agree. That's a bug which should be fixed. A maintainer should know
bef
Matthias Klose wrote:
Package: general
override change are not announced to the package maintainers, _after_
a package is uploaded.
I don't beleive this is true. I just got the following email from the
archive:
---
Subject: easyh10 override disparity
There are disparities between your
Package: general
override change are not announced to the package maintainers, _after_
a package is uploaded.
--
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