Le dimanche 15 janvier 2006 à 19:55 +0200, Martin-Éric Racine a écrit :
> I personally appreciate the excellent work done by Ubuntu. Just looking
> at major GNOME improvements that directly resulted from Ubuntu efforts
> (by Debian Developers such as Sébastien Bacher) clearly shows how Ubuntu
> hel
Manoj Srivastava writes ("Re: Canonical's business model"):
> What would I *like* to see? Well, that they treat me like I
> treat my upstreams; I triage bug reports, I keep feature specific
> patches separate, I submit these feature requests to upstream BT
On 1/15/06, Martin-Éric Racine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Many patches are submitted via the BTS, though not every patch published in
> > the patch archive is submitted this way, for reasons which have been
> > discussed to death in previous threads.
>
> What I think could be done in a signific
Hi Matt,
Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 02:34:31PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > Ubuntu could report in the BTS all the bugs it finds, and submit patches
> > via the BTS.
[...]
> Many patches are submitted via the BTS, though not every patch publishe
On Sun, Jan 15, 2006 at 01:28:26PM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
> [David Nusinow]
> > As far as I know this wasn't any corporate decision by Canonical to
> > give back to Debian, but it was a personal decision by Daniel to
> > help me (for which I'm immensely grateful).
>
> I do not really un
[David Nusinow]
> As far as I know this wasn't any corporate decision by Canonical to
> give back to Debian, but it was a personal decision by Daniel to
> help me (for which I'm immensely grateful).
I do not really understand this kind of reasoning. I get the
impression that you see a difference
On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 09:03:24PM -0200, Gustavo Noronha Silva wrote:
> Having said that, I'd also like to have non-ubuntu-specific patches be
> fed to our BTS; that would really make me feel there's a strong policy
> of giving back. While my relationship with people at ubuntu working on
> gksu is
Em Qua, 2006-01-11 às 21:18 -0500, Joey Hess escreveu:
> Gustavo Franco wrote:
> > I agree with "similar things being said" but i'm yet to hear about the
> > lack of collaboration and give Debian something back. For example: I
> > don't remember too much people caring about PGI (Progeny) and after
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> I see, i would like to see the utnubu patch list[0] integrated in PTS
> (scott's already is[1]), with that everyone subscribed to the package
The patch list from utnubu is the same than the one from Scott, so there's
no point to add a pointer to the utn
David Nusinow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The greatest strength of having Canonical on our side, from my POV, is that
> it's a company full of people like Daniel, who are fundamentally Debian
> people, and who are willing to work with you on this kind of personal
> level. I don't really buy in to
Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Gustavo Franco wrote:
>> I agree with "similar things being said" but i'm yet to hear about the
>> lack of collaboration and give Debian something back. For example: I
>> don't remember too much people caring about PGI (Progeny) and after
>> that anaconda "p
On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 11:47:53AM -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> On 1/11/06, Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Of course people can do this, but this is so very much not the point. The
> > point is that publishing source packages on a website that people have to
> > poll is not "givin
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:17:55 -0200, Gustavo Franco
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> I disagree with a pile of patches and as i said it would be better a
> revision control system and good log (and debian/changelog) entries.
How is a revision control system (BTW, all of my packages are
in a
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 17:48:22 -0200, Gustavo Franco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> On 1/11/06, Daniel Ruoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Em Qua, 2006-01-11 às 16:48 +0100, martin f krafft escreveu:
>> > What would you like to see?
>>
>> I think submitting bugs and patches to the BTS would already b
On 1/12/06, Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gustavo Franco wrote:
> > I agree with "similar things being said" but i'm yet to hear about the
> > lack of collaboration and give Debian something back. For example: I
> > don't remember too much people caring about PGI (Progeny) and after
> > th
On 1/11/06, Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 05:48:22PM -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> > On 1/11/06, Daniel Ruoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Em Qua, 2006-01-11 às 16:48 +0100, martin f krafft escreveu:
> > > > What would you like to see?
>
> > > I think subm
On 1/11/06, Gustavo Noronha Silva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Em Qua, 2006-01-11 às 19:54 -0300, Daniel Ruoso escreveu:
> > Em Qua, 2006-01-11 às 14:36 -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG escreveu:
> > > Gustavo Franco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > > It was already discussed[0], and there's no consensu
On 1/11/06, Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 03:25:01PM -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> (...)
> > Are you saying that they're spending more money with PR than really
> > contributing back ?
>
> I don't know about money, but I'm pretty sure their claims exceed
> th
On 1/11/06, Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gustavo Franco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> (...)
>
> > I don't
> > remember Linspire, Progeny, ... employees doing the same thing so it
> > makes no sense rant against Canonical only.
>
> On the other hand, Linspire and Progeny do not
On 1/11/06, Daniel Ruoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Em Qua, 2006-01-11 às 14:36 -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG escreveu:
> > Gustavo Franco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > It was already discussed[0], and there's no consensus on this idea of
> > > "every Ubuntu changeset, a patch in Debian BTS" bet
Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I know that sometimes users do the wrong thing in spite of this, and that's
> unfortunate. However, given that I've never received an inappropriate
> message from an Ubuntu user about one of my packages in Debian at my
> Maintainer: email address, it se
On Jan 12, Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The relevant context is generally available in the changelog (which is in
At least for my packages, this is often false.
--
ciao,
Marco
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Can't Canonical devote resources to better Ubuntu's contribution to debian? This seems like a reasonable request since Canonical crows about how they are the number one linux distro and they have excellent support, but surely the reliability of their product rests upon the reliability of debian
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:48:21 +0100, martin f krafft
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>IMHO, the border between contributing and employing people who also
>work on Debian is not entirely clear.
>
>How do you think Canonical could *better* work with Debian, ignoring
>whether they meet up to their promises
On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 06:09:25PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > As you know, most bugs are reported by users, not discovered by developers
> > We direct users to report those bugs to us, rather than Debian, for obvious
> > reasons.
>
> Really?
Gustavo Franco wrote:
> I agree with "similar things being said" but i'm yet to hear about the
> lack of collaboration and give Debian something back. For example: I
> don't remember too much people caring about PGI (Progeny) and after
> that anaconda "port" to say that they weren't contributing th
Reinhard Tartler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On 1/11/06, Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> No, I think it's because Ubuntu doesn't cooperate well with Debian,
>> >> while pretending to cooperate.
>> >
>> > Does Debian want to cooperate with Ubuntu, and how well does Debian
>>
Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 02:34:31PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
>> Ubuntu could report in the BTS all the bugs it finds, and submit patches
>> via the BTS.
>
> As you know, most bugs are reported by users, not discovered by developers
> We direct u
Daniel Ruoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Em Qua, 2006-01-11 às 14:36 -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG escreveu:
>> Gustavo Franco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> > It was already discussed[0], and there's no consensus on this idea of
>> > "every Ubuntu changeset, a patch in Debian BTS" between DDs.
>>
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:48:21 +0100, martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> What would you like to see?
What would I *like* to see? Well, that they treat me like I
treat my upstreams; I triage bug reports, I keep feature specific
patches separate, I submit these feature requests t
On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 05:48:22PM -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> On 1/11/06, Daniel Ruoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Em Qua, 2006-01-11 às 16:48 +0100, martin f krafft escreveu:
> > > What would you like to see?
> > I think submitting bugs and patches to the BTS would already be enough.
> It
On 1/11/06, Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> No, I think it's because Ubuntu doesn't cooperate well with Debian,
> >> while pretending to cooperate.
> >
> > Does Debian want to cooperate with Ubuntu, and how well does Debian
> > do? What steps could Ubuntu and Debian reasonably
On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 07:54:10PM -0300, Daniel Ruoso wrote:
> This is exactly the point, what can I do with a patch if I don't know
> why it's there? Which problem is it trying to address (I know, I can
> read the patch and guess, but WTF), and why such solution was adopted...
> Everytime I submi
On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 02:34:31PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Ubuntu could report in the BTS all the bugs it finds, and submit patches
> via the BTS.
As you know, most bugs are reported by users, not discovered by developers
We direct users to report those bugs to us, rather than Debian,
Em Qua, 2006-01-11 às 19:54 -0300, Daniel Ruoso escreveu:
> Em Qua, 2006-01-11 às 14:36 -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG escreveu:
> > Gustavo Franco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > It was already discussed[0], and there's no consensus on this idea of
> > > "every Ubuntu changeset, a patch in Debian BT
Em Qua, 2006-01-11 às 14:36 -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG escreveu:
> Gustavo Franco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > It was already discussed[0], and there's no consensus on this idea of
> > "every Ubuntu changeset, a patch in Debian BTS" between DDs.
> Right. I want Ubuntu to exercise judgment, and
On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 03:25:01PM -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> On 1/11/06, Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 02:56:35PM -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> > > On 1/11/06, Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 11:07:43AM -0200,
Gustavo Franco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> It was already discussed[0], and there's no consensus on this idea of
> "every Ubuntu changeset, a patch in Debian BTS" between DDs.
Right. I want Ubuntu to exercise judgment, and not just give a big
pile of patches, some of which are Debian-relevant
Jan Nieuwenhuizen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Thomas Bushnell writes:
>
>> No, I think it's because Ubuntu doesn't cooperate well with Debian,
>> while pretending to cooperate.
>
> Does Debian want to cooperate with Ubuntu, and how well does Debian
> do? What steps could Ubuntu and Debian reaso
On 1/11/06, Marco d'Itri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Jan 11, Gustavo Franco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > You said *in any form you find convenient* but which one do you
> > prefer: bug reports through Debian BTS, just email, ... ? Please, read
> > my reply to Daniel's message.
> Uploading t
On Jan 11, Gustavo Franco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You said *in any form you find convenient* but which one do you
> prefer: bug reports through Debian BTS, just email, ... ? Please, read
> my reply to Daniel's message.
Uploading the diffs on a web server is nice, but it's not much more
differ
On 1/11/06, Marco d'Itri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Jan 11, Gustavo Franco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > E.g. when I repeatedly say "I'd like to receive any change you make to
> > > my packages, in any form you find convenient" they could actually do
> > > it... I'm tired of begging for p
On 1/11/06, Daniel Ruoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Em Qua, 2006-01-11 às 16:48 +0100, martin f krafft escreveu:
> > What would you like to see?
>
> I think submitting bugs and patches to the BTS would already be enough.
>
It was already discussed[0], and there's no consensus on this idea of
"ev
On Jan 11, Gustavo Franco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > E.g. when I repeatedly say "I'd like to receive any change you make to
> > my packages, in any form you find convenient" they could actually do
> > it... I'm tired of begging for patches.
> http://utnubu.alioth.debian.org/scottish/by_maint/[
On 1/11/06, Marco d'Itri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Jan 11, martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > How do you think Canonical could *better* work with Debian, ignoring
> > whether they meet up to their promises at the moment or not.
> E.g. when I repeatedly say "I'd like to receive a
On Jan 11, martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How do you think Canonical could *better* work with Debian, ignoring
> whether they meet up to their promises at the moment or not.
E.g. when I repeatedly say "I'd like to receive any change you make to
my packages, in any form you find conve
Em Qua, 2006-01-11 às 16:48 +0100, martin f krafft escreveu:
> What would you like to see?
I think submitting bugs and patches to the BTS would already be enough.
daniel
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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also sprach Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.01.11.1644 +0100]:
> > Could you be more explicit? I know there has been concern about Ubuntu
> > amongst debian developers, and that Mark Shuttleworth has some doubts
> > about working with DCC, although he is rather vague in my opinion. But
>
On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 02:44:28PM +0100, jeremiah foster wrote:
> On Wed, 2006-01-11 at 10:25 +0100, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote:
>
> > Thomas Bushnell writes:
> >
> > > No, I think it's because Ubuntu doesn't cooperate well with Debian,
> > > while pretending to cooperate.
>
> Could you be more e
On 1/11/06, Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 02:56:35PM -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> > On 1/11/06, Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 11:07:43AM -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> > > > On 1/10/06, Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTE
On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 02:56:35PM -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> On 1/11/06, Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 11:07:43AM -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> > > On 1/10/06, Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 12:22:03AM -0200,
On 1/11/06, Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 11:07:43AM -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> > On 1/10/06, Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 12:22:03AM -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> > > > I don't[sic] the same rant over others De
On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 11:07:43AM -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> On 1/10/06, Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 12:22:03AM -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> > > I don't[sic] the same rant over others Debian related companies
> >
> > Have you ever actually subscribe
On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 02:44:28PM +0100, jeremiah foster wrote:
> On Wed, 2006-01-11 at 10:25 +0100, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote:
>
> > Thomas Bushnell writes:
> >
> > > No, I think it's because Ubuntu doesn't cooperate well with Debian,
> > > while pretending to cooperate.
>
>
> Could you be mor
On Wed, 2006-01-11 at 10:25 +0100, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote:
Thomas Bushnell writes:
> No, I think it's because Ubuntu doesn't cooperate well with Debian,
> while pretending to cooperate.
Could you be more explicit? I know there has been concern about Ubuntu amongst debian d
On 1/11/06, Jan Nieuwenhuizen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thomas Bushnell writes:
>
> > No, I think it's because Ubuntu doesn't cooperate well with Debian,
> > while pretending to cooperate.
>
> Does Debian want to cooperate with Ubuntu, and how well does Debian
> do? What steps could Ubuntu and
Thomas Bushnell writes:
> No, I think it's because Ubuntu doesn't cooperate well with Debian,
> while pretending to cooperate.
Does Debian want to cooperate with Ubuntu, and how well does Debian
do? What steps could Ubuntu and Debian reasonably take to improve
cooperation?
Jan.
--
Jan Nieuwen
Gustavo Franco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> It's up to Canonical how they will contribute back to the community,
> IMHO. I don't the same rant over others Debian related companies so
> i'm assuming that we're wasting time shooting Canonical, (mainly)
> because Ubuntu is sucessful.
No, I think it
On 1/10/06, Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 12:22:03AM -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> > I don't[sic] the same rant over others Debian related companies
>
> Have you ever actually subscribed to any Debian mailing lists?
>
Hi Andrew,
Don't be fooled by From mail
On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 12:22:03AM -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> I don't[sic] the same rant over others Debian related companies
Have you ever actually subscribed to any Debian mailing lists?
--
.''`. ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Andrew Suffield
: :' : http://www.debian.org/ |
`. `'
[Most of the replies from people appear to have completely missed the
point, but I'll just pick up on this one because it's not so far
off...]
On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 11:52:43AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> It's also important to not completely conflate the people who work for
> Canonical with the
Canonical's business model doesn't belong in -devel. If Canonical as a
company is being fair, cool, whatever with Debian project i think we
can discuss it in -project, but why not do the same exercise about
Linspire? Do they sponsor conferences? Oh, i think Canonical does it
too.
Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I agree with most of what you've said, except for the assertion that
> individual people are fundamentally different in this respect. Debian
> developers, in general, work on Debian in their spare time, and make
> their living by other means. Often th
On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 11:52:43AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> As such, I think getting upset at them is fundamentally missing the
> point. Companies act like companies, sooner or later. Companies are
> fundamentally economic. I don't mind them buying goodwill -- the only
> actions a company *
On 09-Jan-06, 13:52 (CST), Russ Allbery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think that more than one thing can be going on at once.
>
> There are commercial companies that keep things secret for competative
> advantage and *also* contribute other things back to the broader
> community. IBM, for insta
Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 10:30:07PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> They're investing in writing better tools, and they're keeping them
>> private so as to maintain a competative advantage with them over Red
>> Hat, SuSE, Fedora, and so forth. Including
Frans Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Monday 09 January 2006 10:02, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>> This is fair. After all, that's what Free software is about. But I know
>> for sure that "contributing back to Debian" stuff is 100% talk and 0%
>> reality.
>
> There is at least one area where there
On Monday 09 January 2006 10:02, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> This is fair. After all, that's what Free software is about. But I know
> for sure that "contributing back to Debian" stuff is 100% talk and 0%
> reality.
There is at least one area where there is a substantial contribution from
people wo
Le lundi 09 janvier 2006 à 06:58 +, Andrew Suffield a écrit :
> ...damnit, I never thought of that. And you know why not? Because on
> some level I thought that all the noise they make about 'contributing
> back to Debian' was more than just lip service. I had (stupidly)
> wanted to believe tha
On Sun, Jan 08, 2006 at 10:30:07PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> They're investing in writing better tools, and they're keeping them
> private so as to maintain a competative advantage with them over Red Hat,
> SuSE, Fedora, and so forth. Including Debian, for that matter.
...damnit, I never thoug
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