On Thu, 23 May 2013 12:50:00 -0700, Steve Langasek
wrote:
>Also worth noting:
>
>~/systemd$ find . -name '*.c' | grep -vE 'tests|test/|intl/|udev/' \
> | xargs wc -l | tail -n1
> 149081 total
>$ find . -name '*.c' | grep -vE 'tests|test/|intl/|udev/' | xargs wc -l \
> | tail -n1
> 31282
On Thu, 23 May 2013 23:18:04 +0200, Josselin Mouette
wrote:
>Le jeudi 23 mai 2013 à 22:06 +0200, Marc Haber a écrit :
>> Yes, systemd trying to replace so much of traditional UNIX tools at
>> once and so blatantly breaking the "One job one tool" principle that
>> has made our platform so successf
On Fri, 2013-05-24 at 04:21 +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 05/23/2013 03:15 PM, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> > I have the (possibly wrong) impression that OpenRC is less advanced
> > technically than systemd and upstart, and lacks many of their advantages
> > For example, according to https://bugs.ge
On 05/24/2013 01:15 AM, brian m. carlson wrote:
I can use only parts of coreutils if I desire.
The same is true for systemd. Ubuntu is using parts of systemd
without actually using the daemon itself.
Also, coreutils does not
start services on startup that I do not need.
Aeh, what the heck
On 05/24/2013 01:20 AM, brian m. carlson wrote:
rsyslog is priority important and is the default syslog implementation
in Debian. It's also the default in Fedora. I think we can be
confident that it gets lots of real-world use.
I am fully aware of that. I was mainly talking about the other
lo
Steve Langasek writes:
[...]
> by people advocating for systemd; instead, they always cherry-pick the
> statistics that paint it in the most favorable light. Because systemd
> advocates are not trying to win on technology, they're trying to win on
> marketing.
Please don't make such generalizati
2013/5/24 brian m. carlson :
> On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 01:45:46AM +0200, Matthias Klumpp wrote:
>> 2013/5/24 brian m. carlson :
>> > The Unix Way is to use separate processes
>> > for separate tasks.
>> ...and this is what systemd does! It's not like we have an
>> event-logger, hotkey-handling and
The following is a listing of packages for which help has been requested
through the WNPP (Work-Needing and Prospective Packages) system in the
last week.
Total number of orphaned packages: 505 (new: 0)
Total number of packages offered up for adoption: 140 (new: 1)
Total number of packages request
On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 01:45:46AM +0200, Matthias Klumpp wrote:
> 2013/5/24 brian m. carlson :
> > The Unix Way is to use separate processes
> > for separate tasks.
> ...and this is what systemd does! It's not like we have an
> event-logger, hotkey-handling and seat-management all in pid0. It is
>
2013/5/24 brian m. carlson :
> On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 11:18:04PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>> Le jeudi 23 mai 2013 à 22:06 +0200, Marc Haber a écrit :
>> > Yes, systemd trying to replace so much of traditional UNIX tools at
>> > once and so blatantly breaking the "One job one tool" principle
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 02:10:57PM +0200, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 05/23/2013 11:43 AM, Adam Borowski wrote:
> >Did you include the stats for all projects systemd wants to replace as well?
> >For just one piece:
> >* busybox-syslogd
> >* dsyslog
> >* inetutils-syslogd
> >* rsyslog
> >*
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 11:18:04PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le jeudi 23 mai 2013 à 22:06 +0200, Marc Haber a écrit :
> > Yes, systemd trying to replace so much of traditional UNIX tools at
> > once and so blatantly breaking the "One job one tool" principle that
> > has made our platform so
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Mike Miller
* Package name: deltarpm
Version : 3.5
Upstream Author : Michael Schroeder
* URL : http://gitorious.org/deltarpm/deltarpm
* License : BSD
Programming Lang: C, Python
Description : Tools to create and
Am Donnerstag, den 23.05.2013, 08:51 +0200 schrieb Bjoern Meier:
> hi,
>
> 2013/5/23 Ondřej Surý :
> > Joss isn't the only one to blame. Could all please stop bashing each
> other (and Joss) and stick back to technical arguments? (Saying "I'm
> sorry" privately to each other for each ad hominem ar
Le jeudi 23 mai 2013 à 22:06 +0200, Marc Haber a écrit :
> Yes, systemd trying to replace so much of traditional UNIX tools at
> once and so blatantly breaking the "One job one tool" principle that
> has made our platform so successful is one major part of the
> acceptance issues that systemd has
On Thu 23 May 2013 12:50:00 Steve Langasek wrote:
> 78% is not a minority. But this isn't the statistic that gets
> trotted out by people advocating for systemd; instead, they always
> cherry-pick the statistics that paint it in the most favorable
> light. Because systemd advocates are not trying
On 05/23/2013 03:15 PM, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> I have the (possibly wrong) impression that OpenRC is less advanced
> technically than systemd and upstart, and lacks many of their advantages
> For example, according to https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=391945
> which is linked from
> http://w
On 05/23/2013 03:55 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 05/23/2013 06:56 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>>> * As you may know, systemd is developed by a large amount of
>>>contributors.
>>
>> If you are tired of seeing the same arguments,
>
> Personal insults is something you call arguments?
On Thu, 23 May 2013 19:34:09 +0200, Matthias Klumpp
wrote:
>P.S: @all: Please keep in mind that systemd is not just an init
>system, but contains many other bui?ding blocks to create an operating
>system, e.g. journald to create better syslogs (it forwards messages
>to traditional syslog, so no wo
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 09:55:41AM +0200, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > don't post things which
> >have already been debunked as well. You are doing the very same thing
> >that you are complaining about: I already posted in this list the git
> >log stats, and Lennart owns more than 40% of al
(funny, talk without end about init systems, but not a single response
for a Debian native tool for a few days… and with funny, I meant sad)
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Ondřej Surý wrote:
> I am just curious about the selection mechanism in apt(itude),
> something has changed between squeez
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jonas Genannt
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256
* Package name: php5-stomp
Version : 1.0.5
Upstream Author : Pierrick Charron
* URL : http://pecl.php.net/package/stomp
* License : PHP License 3.01
Progra
2013/5/23 Marc Haber :
> On Wed, 22 May 2013 19:40:57 +0200, Matthias Klumpp
> wrote:
>>Please also keep in mind that many upstream projects ship systemd service
>>files. Therefore, most of the systemd work is already done too.
>
> Are those any better than init scripts shipped by upstream? How ma
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 07:07:16PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
> >Please also keep in mind that many upstream projects ship systemd service
> >files. Therefore, most of the systemd work is already done too.
>
> Are those any better than init scripts shipped by upstream? How many
> Debian packages use
On Wed, 22 May 2013 19:40:57 +0200, Matthias Klumpp
wrote:
>Please also keep in mind that many upstream projects ship systemd service
>files. Therefore, most of the systemd work is already done too.
Are those any better than init scripts shipped by upstream? How many
Debian packages use upstream
* Philipp Kern [2013-05-23 15:39]:
> On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 09:22:22PM +0200, Martin Wuertele wrote:
> > Actually it's just a response to the ongoing insulting by joss to
> > variouse participants on mailinglists. As usual he has a way of mailing
> > that i find disgusting.
>
> I don't find you
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Gunnar Wolf
* Package name: ruby-html2haml
Version : 1.0.1
Upstream Author : Norman Clarke
* URL : https://github.com/haml/html2haml
* License : MIT
Programming Lang: Ruby
Description : Convert HTML into HAML
Th
On May 23, 2013, at 02:17 PM, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>I’m not criticizing the fact that upstart comes from Ubuntu. I disagree
>with the idea of having Ubuntu as the sole origin of innovation in the
>project. It gives bad habits to both Debian and Ubuntu if the natural
>thing to do to make things
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 09:11:55AM +0200, Gergely Nagy wrote:
> Also, post-raring, systemd is available in Ubuntu aswell, and in some
> cases, you can check for systemd at runtime, needing no modification to
> the package *at all*.
What's available in Ubuntu are the systemd dbus services, the lib
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Luca BRUNO
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
* Package name: libuv
Version : 0.11.3
Upstream Author : Ben Noordhuis
* URL : https://github.com/joyent/libuv
* License : MIT
Programming Lang: C
Description
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 09:22:22PM +0200, Martin Wuertele wrote:
> Actually it's just a response to the ongoing insulting by joss to
> variouse participants on mailinglists. As usual he has a way of mailing
> that i find disgusting.
I don't find yours to be much better.
> > You know why many proj
On Thu, 23 May 2013 14:17:43 +0200
Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > So if your comment is a
> > fair critique of upstart proponents, then mine is an equally fair critique
> > of systemd proponents.
>
> I’m not criticizing the fact that upstart comes from Ubuntu. I disagree
> with the idea of having U
Josselin Mouette writes ("Re: Debian systemd survey"):
> Le mercredi 22 mai 2013 à 15:05 -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit :
> > There certainly have been cases of fd.o changes being dropped into
> > Debian without dealing with the integration questions. mime ->
> > .desktop is a prime example of thi
Steve Langasek writes ("Re: Upstart & kFreeBSD port for Debian"):
> This is interesting to know. Out of curiosity, if you don't intend to
> license your patch under the Canonical CLA, what was your aim in doing this
> port?
Perhaps the intent is a long-term fork. If someone wants to maintain
an
Le mercredi 22 mai 2013 à 15:05 -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit :
> There certainly have been cases of fd.o changes being dropped into Debian
> without dealing with the integration questions. mime -> .desktop is a prime
> example of this. .desktop is clearly far superior - but that doesn't mean
>
On 05/23/2013 11:43 AM, Adam Borowski wrote:
Did you include the stats for all projects systemd wants to replace as well?
For just one piece:
* busybox-syslogd
* dsyslog
* inetutils-syslogd
* rsyslog
* socklog-run
* syslog-ng-core
Well, how many of these are actually used in the real world?
Ch
Le jeudi 23 mai 2013 à 11:43 +0200, Adam Borowski a écrit :
> Did you include the stats for all projects systemd wants to replace as well?
> For just one piece:
> * busybox-syslogd
> * dsyslog
> * inetutils-syslogd
> * rsyslog
> * socklog-run
> * syslog-ng-core
For the Xth time (with X becoming r
Hi Dennis,
On Thu, May 23, 2013 11:52, Dennis van Dok wrote:
> I'm running wheezy with some packages from unstable.
> The distro-info-data package in wheezy is outdated (0.11).
> Sid has version 0.16, which is updated. The README suggests to include
> wheezy-updates in the apt-sources, but there
+++ Colin Watson [2013-05-22 22:55 +0100]:
> > * Append "Debian-" to the username, as in Debian-opensmtpd
>
> This was used by Debian-exim and not a lot else that I ever heard of.
> In my view this scheme rightly failed; plenty of simple system
> monitoring tools (top, ps, and the like) truncate l
Hi,
I'm running wheezy with some packages from unstable.
The distro-info-data package in wheezy is outdated (0.11).
Running ubuntu-distro-info --devel will say that the distribution data is
outdated:
ubuntu-distro-info -d -f
ubuntu-distro-info: Distribution data outdated.
Please check for an upd
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 09:55:41AM +0200, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 05/23/2013 06:56 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> > "As you may know, systemd is developed by a large amount of
> contributors"
>
> How on earth does that contradict with the fact that 40%, i.e.
> the minority of all cont
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Florian Schlichting
* Package name: libapache-logformat-compiler-perl
Version : 0.12
Upstream Author : Masahiro Nagano
* URL : http://search.cpan.org/dist/Apache-LogFormat-Compiler/
* License : Artistic, GPL-1+
Program
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Florian Schlichting
* Package name: libstream-buffered-perl
Version : 0.02
Upstream Author : Tatsuhiko Miyagawa
* URL : http://search.cpan.org/dist/Stream-Buffered/
* License : Artistic, GPL-1+
Programming Lang: Perl
On 05/23/2013 06:56 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
* As you may know, systemd is developed by a large amount of
contributors.
If you are tired of seeing the same arguments,
Personal insults is something you call arguments? You have a weird
method of discussion ...
> don't post things which
ha
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256
Dear all,
Despite all the efforts from many people, it's still quite difficult to
get a fully functional Debian system on certain Apple hardware.
I have been looking for a team I could join to discuss and improve the
situation, but I could not fin
Lucas Nussbaum writes:
> - there are 300+ upstart job files ready to be imported from Ubuntu
FWIW, there are a similar (if not more) number of systemd service files
we can look at and import from: Fedora, openSUSE, Arch and possibly a
few others too. (This I find to be a great strength of system
On 23/05/13 at 12:28 +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 05/22/2013 04:53 AM, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> > - Neither systemd nor upstart are likely to be ported to kfreebsd soon,
> > as they both rely on many Linux-specific features and interfaces.
>
> Though it should be easy enough to port OpenRC t
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 07:16:18AM +0200, Zbigniew J??drzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> Providing a conversion script which recreates all of systemd
> functionality would basically mean reimplemting a big part of
> systemd in shell. Providing an interpeter would man reimplementing
> a big part of systemd i
Thomas Goirand writes:
> On 05/23/2013 01:45 AM, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>> I understand it will be a pain for Ubuntu if Debian picks a different
>> init system. I don’t think this is relevant for the discussion, though.
>
> It might be very relevant for many of us that our package works on
> *bo
hi,
2013/5/23 Ondřej Surý :
> Joss isn't the only one to blame. Could all please stop bashing each other
> (and Joss) and stick back to technical arguments? (Saying "I'm sorry"
> privately to each other for each ad hominem argument used in this thread
> would also help!)
>
> I can clearly see w
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