On Tue, Dec 14, 2004 at 02:26:46AM +, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2004 at 08:43:37AM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> > Manufacturing an ASIC involves NRE (non-recurring engineering) costs
> > of hundreds of thousands to millions per revision. A manufacturing
> > company is going to
On Tue, Dec 14, 2004 at 02:39:07AM +, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 02:13:53PM -0600, Kenneth Pronovici wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 07:50:02PM +, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> > > On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 11:21:54AM -0800, Bruce Perens wrote:
> > > > My surmise is that w
On Tue, Dec 14, 2004 at 02:24:08AM +, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> I don't care about it. It's the people who want it done badly enough
> to whine about it on public mailing lists who should go do it.
The issue is people who care about it enough that they want Debian's policies
to encourage vendor
On Tue, Dec 14, 2004 at 02:26:46AM +, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2004 at 08:43:37AM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 07:50:02PM +, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> > > On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 11:21:54AM -0800, Bruce Perens wrote:
> > > > My surmise is that we'd
On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 02:13:53PM -0600, Kenneth Pronovici wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 07:50:02PM +, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 11:21:54AM -0800, Bruce Perens wrote:
> > > My surmise is that we'd need an effort like that, raising $250K, to
> > > design and go to f
On Tue, Dec 14, 2004 at 08:43:37AM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 07:50:02PM +, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 11:21:54AM -0800, Bruce Perens wrote:
> > > My surmise is that we'd need an effort like that, raising $250K, to
> > > design and go to full
On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 03:57:19PM -0500, Brendan wrote:
> On Monday 13 December 2004 14:50, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 11:21:54AM -0800, Bruce Perens wrote:
> > > My surmise is that we'd need an effort like that, raising $250K, to
> > > design and go to full-custom fabricat
Bruce Perens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Hamish Moffatt wrote:
>
> >Manufacturing an ASIC involves NRE (non-recurring engineering) costs of
> >hundreds of thousands to millions per revision.
> >
> If you haven't looked at OpenCores.org yet, please do so to get an
> idea of how far they have be
* Serafeim Zanikolas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [041213 21:21]:
> Anyone (with the appropriate permissions) that could help with setting up the
> greek language for DDTP? (Michael Bramer hasn't responded to the following
> email yet)
[..]
> Date: Sunday 12 December 2004 01:54
AFAIK grisu is often quit
also sprach Santiago Vila <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2004.12.14.0137 +0100]:
> No, not again. Please google a little bit more before proposing
> things. For example, read the complete logs for Bug #35504.
I read the complete log, and I read the thread at
http://lists.debian.org/debian-policy/2000/01/msg
On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, martin f krafft wrote:
> - first suggest to make /var/log group adm and setgid, so that any
> new files automatically belong to group adm.
No, not again. Please google a little bit more before proposing things.
For example, read the complete logs for Bug #35504.
On all my Debian systems, /var/log seems like a big pile of dumps
without much consistency. Especially, while 0640:root:adm seems to
be a commonly accepted guideline, proggies like aptitude,
scrollkeeper, X, xdm, fontconfig, and many others basically just
dump their files world-readable into there.
On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 05:11:32PM -0500, Ian Murdock wrote:
> On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 23:07 +0100, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> > Ian Murdock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> I understand the LSB is beginning to think about the multiarch issue,
> and I suspect Debian is far ahead of others in terms
Hamish Moffatt wrote:
Manufacturing an ASIC involves NRE (non-recurring engineering) costs of
hundreds of thousands to millions per revision.
If you haven't looked at OpenCores.org yet, please do so to get an idea
of how far they have been able to carry this so far.
I have priced this out as far
On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 05:07:12PM -0500, Ian Murdock wrote:
> We have absolutely been talking to ISVs about their needs--indeed, this
> has been a conversation that has been ongoing for years..
>
> What about the LCC's scope isn't clear? The basic are fairly simple:
> Make the cost-benefit equati
Hi,
Package: misdn-utils
Version: 0.0.0+cvs20041018-4
Severity: serious
misdn-utils contains a utility "loadfirm", for loading firmware onto
ISDN devices. Unless this firmware is Free Software with source, which
did not appear to be the case after a large amount of searching, this
utility should
Hello all,
Anyone (with the appropriate permissions) that could help with setting up the
greek language for DDTP? (Michael Bramer hasn't responded to the following
email yet)
PS. Please CC me as I'm not subscribed in debian-devel
Thanks
-- Forwarded Message --
Subject: gree
On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 23:07 +0100, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> Ian Murdock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Can someone provide an example of where the name of a dynamic
> > library itself (i.e., the one in the file system, after the
> > package is unpacked) would change? I'd be surprised if this
On Sat, 2004-12-11 at 03:49 -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 09, 2004 at 03:39:55PM -0500, Ian Murdock wrote:
> > You've just described the way the LSB has done it for years, which thus
> > far, hasn't worked--while there are numerous LSB-certified distros,
> > there are exactly zero LSB
Hello.
I plan to make /etc/profile a "configuration file which is not a conffile
but it's created by postinst instead", so that dpkg never asks about it,
not even once every two years. The prototype is at
http://people.debian.org/~sanvila/base-files
I've checked that upgrades work (they already
On Mon, 2004-12-13 at 21:59 +0100, Rainer Dorsch wrote:
> Hi Marco,
>
> I am using udev since a few weeks for having dedicted mount points for usb
> devices. I added
Add site-specific rules to:
/etc/udev/rules.d/10-local.rules
"man udev" for the CONFIGURATION udev_rules section:
The name of
On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 07:50:02PM +, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 11:21:54AM -0800, Bruce Perens wrote:
> > My surmise is that we'd need an effort like that, raising $250K, to
> > design and go to full-custom fabrication of an FPLA with fully-open
> > design.
>
> Mine is
Hi Marco,
I am using udev since a few weeks for having dedicted mount points for usb
devices. I added
## USB disk
BUS="scsi", SYSFS_vendor="USB 2.0*", NAME="usbdisk%n"
## Pentax Optio 33S disk
BUS="scsi", SYSFS_vendor="Pentax", NAME="optio%n"
which works fine.
It is somewhat annoying that with
On Monday 13 December 2004 14:50, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 11:21:54AM -0800, Bruce Perens wrote:
> > My surmise is that we'd need an effort like that, raising $250K, to
> > design and go to full-custom fabrication of an FPLA with fully-open
> > design.
>
> Mine is that one c
On Thu, 2004-12-09 at 13:04 -0800, Michael K. Edwards wrote:
> If ISVs want "exactly the same", they are free to install a chroot
> environment containing the binaries they certify against and to supply
> a kernel that they expect their customers to use. That's the approach
> I've had to take when
Andrew Suffield wrote:
There is absolutely no reason why any money is needed for this. Design the damn thing.
My personal EE skill is insufficient for the task. I can help someone
else get it done.
Regarding how much money it takes, it's a matter of how soon we want
it. I've no doubt that
On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 07:50:02PM +, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 11:21:54AM -0800, Bruce Perens wrote:
> > My surmise is that we'd need an effort like that, raising $250K, to
> > design and go to full-custom fabrication of an FPLA with fully-open
> > design.
>
> Mine is
On Fri, Dec 10, 2004 at 10:21:07PM +0100, Bernd Eckenfels wrote:
> aptitude has a nice usage "enter" means drill down, this is intuitive.
>
> 'q' means quit/leave level backward - this is intuitive
I have to say that 'q' doing something other than quitting the program
strikes me as being totally
On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 11:21:54AM -0800, Bruce Perens wrote:
> My surmise is that we'd need an effort like that, raising $250K, to
> design and go to full-custom fabrication of an FPLA with fully-open
> design.
Mine is that one can get useful things done without having to spend
ridiculous amoun
Andrew Suffield wrote:
On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 11:07:35AM -0800, Bruce Perens wrote:
It will take fund-raising to do it.
^&&##$@@. There goes that "free software is impossible" argument again.
Well, maybe I'm doing the wrong thing to feed a troll like this, but
I'll g
On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 11:07:35AM -0800, Bruce Perens wrote:
> It will take fund-raising to do it.
Bullshit. There goes that "free software is impossible" argument
again.
--
.''`. ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Andrew Suffield
: :' : http://www.debian.org/ |
`. `' |
Matthew Garrett wrote:
No, you're missing the point. I understand that there are practical
arguments against this desire for freedom, but that doesn't alter the
philosophical basis - as far as freedom is concerned, there is no
difference in having non-free code in ROM or on disk.
Yes, but w
John Hasler wrote:
The embedded code is essentially a driver for the internal device and reveals only a limited amount about how it works. Exactly how much it reveals depends on the design and varies a lot.
Well, for embedded programming to make sense you really need to document
everything that
Andrew Suffield wrote:
Come on, this argument is from the 1980s, and your side *lost* in the real world. Free software is here.
It's sort of silly to say my side lost, in this context. I'm
trying to make Free Software usable by all people and have been doing
so since sometime in the late
also sprach martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2004.12.12.1713 +0100]:
> also sprach Santiago Vila <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2004.12.12.1708 +0100]:
> > My mail.* files are 640 and I don't remember having done anything
> > special for that to happen.
>
> Judging from an IRC conversation, I should not
Bruce writes:
> If we ask for the embedded programming in the devices to be open as well,
> we are essentially asking for the hardware design below the bus level to
> be opened.
That doesn't follow. The embedded code is essentially a driver for the
internal device and reveals only a limited amoun
On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 08:14:40AM -0800, Bruce Perens wrote:
> If we ask for the embedded programming in the devices to be open as
> well, we are essentially asking for the hardware design below the bus
> level to be opened. This is fine for a restricted subset of vendors that
> are designing e
Hello Brian,
Am 2004-12-10 17:39:05, schrieb Brian Nelson:
> As for whether Debian would actually distribute the firmware blobs in
> main, I would prefer that we do. It can be a real pain installing
> Debian on a system in which I have to retrieve the firmware from an
> external source. It's o
Bruce Perens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Matthew Garrett wrote:
>>Non-free code in flash is no more or less a problem than non-free code on
>>disk.
>>
>>
> Except that we have to distribute it. If the manufacturer is so
> concerned about their code that they can't disclose its source, they
>
Moin!
* Sucha Lohtia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [041213 12:42]:
> Thankyou very much SIR.
You are welcome :)
Yours sincerely,
Alexander
PS: Here are the missing smilies for my last mail: ;) ;-) :-)) :) :P
PPS: Oh, by the way: A more meaningfull subject would be great next
time ;-)
Matthew Garrett wrote:
Non-free code in flash is no more or less a problem than non-free code on disk.
Except that we have to distribute it. If the manufacturer is so
concerned about their code that they can't disclose its source, they
should hide the code on the device, below the bus interfa
Bruce Perens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Certainly there are AVR and ARM chips that do glue-less downloading from
> serial FLASH chips at boot time. Atmel sells them, among others.
> Reprogramming of the FLASH is done via JPEG and not under the embedded
> processor's control.
Bruce, as far as
Marco d'Itri wrote:
The reason for this is not only the additional cost of the flash chip,
but also that (good) devices which use flash need to be more complex:
you would have to add a programming device, possibly a dual power supply
to drive it and you would need anyway some intelligent enough cod
Darren Salt wrote:
A lot of these BLOBs have been identified as ARM7 code, and generally
"thumb" (the 8-bit ARM instructions).
No. THUMB is a 16-bit instruction set.
Oops. You're right.
Thanks
Bruce
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signatur
On Sun, Dec 12, 2004 at 12:28:08AM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
>
> Not really. The rest of the explanation for non-US is that those
> packages weren't illegal to USE in the USA, but were illegal to
> EXPORT. We don't have a section for packages that you aren't
> allowed to have, or aren't allowed
On Mon, Dec 13, 2004 at 12:15:31PM +, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> Blars Blarson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >>How does moving firmware from the disk to the hardware (therefore making
> >>it harder to modify and more expensive) furt
Matthew Garrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Blars Blarson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>>>How does moving firmware from the disk to the hardware (therefore making
>>>it harder to modify and more expensive) further the cause of free
>>>
On Sun, Dec 12, 2004 at 09:17:05PM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Dec 12, Bruce Perens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > A lot of these BLOBs have been identified as ARM7 code, and generally
> > "thumb" (the 8-bit ARM instructions).
> I know of some devices (very cheap stuff, nothing fancy) which
Blars Blarson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>>How does moving firmware from the disk to the hardware (therefore making
>>it harder to modify and more expensive) further the cause of free
>>software?
>
> It makes it covered by the hardware
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>How does moving firmware from the disk to the hardware (therefore making
>it harder to modify and more expensive) further the cause of free
>software?
It makes it covered by the hardware manufacturers warentee. If it is
faulty, you can re
Thankyou very much SIR.
Lohtia.
- Original Message -
From: "Alexander Schmehl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Sucha Lohtia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc:
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: info
> Hi there!
>
>
> * Sucha Lohtia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [041213 10:50]:
>
> >
Hi there!
* Sucha Lohtia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [041213 10:50]:
> gut morgen.
> ich suche eine software programme name ist FEDORA CORE 3 (Punjabi sprache)
> wenn sie haben bitte sagen sie mir.
First you should know, that this is an english mailing-list
Sehr geehrte damen u herren,
gut morgen.
ich suche eine software programme name ist
FEDORA CORE 3 (Punjabi sprache)
wenn sie haben bitte sagen sie
mir.
Danke.
Lohtia.
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Santiago Vila wrote:
> >> On Sat, 11 Dec 2004, Dan Jacobson wrote:
> >> > Say, perhaps a "Date:" field could be added to Packages files.
> >> Even offline, files have time stamps in mo
Goswin von Brederlow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Kurt Roeckx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> On Sun, Dec 12, 2004 at 08:29:16PM +0100, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
>>> Tollef Fog Heen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>>
>>> > The problem is not the autobuilder infrastructure per se. It is that
>>>
Andreas Barth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> * Goswin von Brederlow ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [041212 21:55]:
>> Andreas Barth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> > * Goswin von Brederlow ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [041212 20:25]:
>> >> Compiled in the blob MUST comply to the GPL. The nature of being a
>> >> blob
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