Re: [Beowulf] How Can Microsoft's HPC Server Succeed?

2008-04-04 Thread Joe Landman
Hi Anand Anand Vaidya wrote: [...] Having said that, I think that the Linux clustering scene needs a little competition, especially the for-fee ones. Apart from SDSC, not many innovations are happening. I am not referring to standalone projects, where FOSS community has a lot of innovatio hap

Re: [Beowulf] Performance metrics & reporting

2008-04-04 Thread John Leidel
what sort of data are you looking for? On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 09:41 -0600, Matt Lawrence wrote: > What do folks recommend for gathering and reporting performance data on > Linux (CentOS 5) systems? > > Since I have done a lot of this on AIX, my initial thought is to use the > Linux version of n

Re: [Beowulf] How Can Microsoft's HPC Server Succeed?

2008-04-04 Thread Anand Vaidya
On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 6:19 PM, Geoff Galitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > More to the point of the thread: if we are talking about MS making > greater > inroads into the HPC market, then their most likely tactic is to convince > the commercial app vendors to write and/or port their apps

Re: [Beowulf] How Can Microsoft's HPC Server Succeed?

2008-04-04 Thread Mehmet Suzen
On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Jim Lux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It is VERY important to be clear about one point. This argument must > > NOT imply that using proprietary software to built a cluster does not > > require any > > work-force (someone) or no training needed to operate it. At the

Re: [Beowulf] "Code" vs. "Codes"

2008-04-04 Thread Toon Moene
Greg Lindahl wrote: The Church was still a major political power using Latin, not to mention the Holy Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire -- and Latin itself evolved steadily. While Latin was used in the Byzantine Empire, perhaps these lines from Will Durant's "The Age of Faith" indicate to

Re: [Beowulf] HPL Benchmarking and Optimization

2008-04-04 Thread Donnie Berkholz
On 16:48 Fri 04 Apr , Ellis Wilson wrote: > Thanks for your suggestions, I had already begun testing Goto BLAS > when I got your email, and it has been thus far the most beneficial > one to my particular application residing on a CD-ROM. MKL proved to > be far too heavyweight (and I try to

[Beowulf] Performance metrics & reporting

2008-04-04 Thread Matt Lawrence
What do folks recommend for gathering and reporting performance data on Linux (CentOS 5) systems? Since I have done a lot of this on AIX, my initial thought is to use the Linux version of nmon and nmon2rrd or nmon2web to generate web pages of performance graphs. Since I already know the tools

Re: [Beowulf] How Can Microsoft's HPC Server Succeed?

2008-04-04 Thread Toon Moene
Jon Forrest wrote: But, the question remains. How can Microsoft compete with free? How much better will they have to be than standard Linux clusters before they get any mainstream interest? What technical features could they add that couldn't be added to a Linux cluster? By becoming as good as

Re: [Beowulf] HPL Benchmarking and Optimization

2008-04-04 Thread Ellis Wilson
Tom Elken wrote: > >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ellis Wilson >> >> I'll likely try MKL soon for the Intel processors I'm >> interested in. > > Good idea. > > You might also want to try "Goto BLAS" (Google that to find the

Re: [Beowulf] Configuring mpich in a Pentium Dual Core

2008-04-04 Thread Mark Hahn
Thanks, there is nothing wrong with the way I configured rite, i would just sure, what you've done will be work fine. a) How do I know that I am using both the processors in the dual core machine, say when I run a pmandel program well, you can just run a program like top, which will show inf

Re: [Beowulf] How Can Microsoft's HPC Server Succeed?

2008-04-04 Thread Jim Lux
At 07:31 AM 4/4/2008, Mehmet Suzen wrote: On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Jim Lux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It is VERY important to be clear about one point. This argument must > > NOT imply that using proprietary software to built a cluster does not > > require any > > work-force (someone)

Re: [Beowulf] How Can Microsoft's HPC Server Succeed?

2008-04-04 Thread Joe Landman
Gerry Creager wrote: This will also be a big factor for University ITS departments too which often seem to have (at least here in Australia) become MS only shops. It's not just in Oz. We see the same thing here. All the kids I interviewed this year had a lot of C# and .net "experience" wi

Re: [Beowulf] How Can Microsoft's HPC Server Succeed?

2008-04-04 Thread Gerry Creager
Chris Samuel wrote: - "Greg Byshenk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: A former co-worker of mine now works elsewhere, at a company where they are looking to build a cluster for some research he will be doing, and it will almost certainly run Windows. And this is not because there is something "be

Re: [Beowulf] Configuring mpich in a Pentium Dual Core

2008-04-04 Thread Cally K
Thanks, there is nothing wrong with the way I configured rite, i would just like to know a few things a) How do I know that I am using both the processors in the dual core machine, say when I run a pmandel program b) Any helpful commands, am kinda of beginner in linux, and am using Open Suse 10.3

Re: [Beowulf] Re: SMPs + One processor machines = Heterogeneous Cluster

2008-04-04 Thread Mark Hahn
different clock, or anything which makes their performance non-uniform. Most MPI codes only run as fast as their slowest yep, me too. anything which will prevent each process from behaving the same as all the others. type of cpu, clock, amount of memory, interconnect, even size of disk. in t

Re: [Beowulf] Configuring mpich in a Pentium Dual Core

2008-04-04 Thread Mark Hahn
./configure --prefix=/home/kalpanak/Installation_Files/MPICH/mpichbuild ?with-device=ch_shmem ?with-comm=shared -rsh=ssh I wanted a simple config for a user's laptop: ./configure --prefix=/home/hahn --with-device=ch3:shm --disable-romio --disa ble-threads --without-mpe --enable-fast --with-pm=

Re: [Beowulf] cluster admin employment

2008-04-04 Thread Jim Lux
Quoting Guy Coates <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on Fri 04 Apr 2008 05:59:34 AM PDT: Does someone who has maintained a personal cluster for their graduate research have any reasonable chance of landing some sort of admin position? That probably describes the career progression of 99% of the people o

Re: [Beowulf] How Can Microsoft's HPC Server Succeed?

2008-04-04 Thread Jim Lux
Quoting "Robert G. Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on Fri 04 Apr 2008 05:46:02 AM PDT: On Thu, 3 Apr 2008, Kyle Spaans wrote: On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Scott Atchley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Apr 3, 2008, at 3:52 PM, Kyle Spaans wrote: Forgive me perhaps for being naive, but why can'

RE: [Beowulf] How Can Microsoft's HPC Server Succeed?

2008-04-04 Thread Jim Lux
Quoting Geoff Galitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on Fri 04 Apr 2008 03:19:42 AM PDT: Just to be fair... well... maybe not fair... how about Devil's Advocate: Are any of the MS anti-malware apps more or less difficult to manage than their *NIX counterparts? Network layer firewalls, HIDS, file syste

Re: [Beowulf] How Can Microsoft's HPC Server Succeed?

2008-04-04 Thread Jim Lux
Quoting Chris Samuel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on Fri 04 Apr 2008 12:47:09 AM PDT: - "Jon Forrest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What technical features could they add that couldn't be added to a Linux cluster? Windows botnet clients & client access licenses ? :-) Seriously though, my concern

Re: [Beowulf] How Can Microsoft's HPC Server Succeed?

2008-04-04 Thread Jim Lux
Quoting Mehmet Suzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on Thu 03 Apr 2008 02:35:48 PM PDT: On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 12:44 AM, Greg Byshenk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Wed, Apr 02, 2008 at 03:04:28PM -0700, Jon Forrest wrote: > But, the question remains. How can Microsoft compete with free? > How much b

Re: [Beowulf] How Can Microsoft's HPC Server Succeed?

2008-04-04 Thread Jim Lux
Quoting Mark Hahn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on Thu 03 Apr 2008 02:04:20 PM PDT: are a Windows shop, and thus the cost of hiring or training staff would more than outweigh any savings on licenses. this is absurd! buying a windows cluster just means that the new cluster admins you need to hire or tr

Re: [Beowulf] cluster admin employment

2008-04-04 Thread Guy Coates
Does someone who has maintained a personal cluster for their graduate research have any reasonable chance of landing some sort of admin position? That probably describes the career progression of 99% of the people on this list. If you manage to become an admin by design rather than by accide

Re: [Beowulf] How Can Microsoft's HPC Server Succeed?

2008-04-04 Thread Robert G. Brown
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008, Kyle Spaans wrote: On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Scott Atchley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Apr 3, 2008, at 3:52 PM, Kyle Spaans wrote: Forgive me perhaps for being naive, but why can't a knowledgeable teenager / college student be paid ~$10/hour plus on-call time to do

Re: [Beowulf] cluster admin employment

2008-04-04 Thread Mike Davis
Mark Kosmowski wrote: For Mike and the rest of you: If one of these unqualified applicants had accurately mapped out their deficiencies and let you know that they would need a little training, would said applicant have been considered at all or would their resume have been filed in the "circular

Re: [Beowulf] cluster admin employment

2008-04-04 Thread Joe Landman
Mark Kosmowski wrote: For Mike and the rest of you: If one of these unqualified applicants had accurately mapped out their deficiencies and let you know that they would need a little training, would said applicant have been considered at all or would their resume have been filed in the "circula

Re: [Beowulf] How Can Microsoft's HPC Server Succeed?

2008-04-04 Thread Robert G. Brown
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008, Kyle Spaans wrote: On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 7:39 PM, Chris Dagdigian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: spew out a terabyte per day of raw data and many times that stuff needs to be post processed and distilled down into different forms. A nice little 8-core box running a shrink-wrap

Re: [Beowulf] How Can Microsoft's HPC Server Succeed?

2008-04-04 Thread Joe Landman
Chris Samuel wrote: - "Greg Byshenk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: A former co-worker of mine now works elsewhere, at a company where they are looking to build a cluster for some research he will be doing, and it will almost certainly run Windows. And this is not because there is something "be

[Beowulf] cluster admin employment

2008-04-04 Thread Mark Kosmowski
> Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 16:50:30 -0400 > From: Mike Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Beowulf] How Can Microsoft's HPC Server Succeed? > To: Kyle Spaans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: Beowulf List > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=

RE: [Beowulf] How Can Microsoft's HPC Server Succeed?

2008-04-04 Thread Geoff Galitz
Just to be fair... well... maybe not fair... how about Devil's Advocate: Are any of the MS anti-malware apps more or less difficult to manage than their *NIX counterparts? Network layer firewalls, HIDS, file system integrity apps, spam containment and prevention apps and so on? Being a consul

Re: [Beowulf] Configuring mpich in a Pentium Dual Core

2008-04-04 Thread John Hearns
Cally K wrote: Dear beowulf users I have an Intel pentium Dual Core machine, and I would like to know how to configure mpich on it, i used the smp option and is there any example programs that I can run besides the hello world that would tell me something like I am using both processors.

Re: [Beowulf] How Can Microsoft's HPC Server Succeed?

2008-04-04 Thread Chris Samuel
- "Jon Forrest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What technical features could they add that couldn't > be added to a Linux cluster? Windows botnet clients & client access licenses ? :-) Seriously though, my concern is about the impact of the essential anti-virus, anti-malware and anti-spyware

Re: [Beowulf] How Can Microsoft's HPC Server Succeed?

2008-04-04 Thread Chris Samuel
- "Greg Byshenk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A former co-worker of mine now works elsewhere, at a company where > they are looking to build a cluster for some research he will be > doing, and it will almost certainly run Windows. And this is not > because there is something "better" about Wi