[Python-Dev] Advice / RTFM needed for tool setup to participate in python development from a Windows host

[pjfarley3]

Hello,

I hope this is the correct place to ask this question.  I have a desire to
participate in python development in a particular area from my Windows host
machine, but I am not finding any concise listing of the tool setup needed
to fully participate, nor any detailed guidance on how to proceed when
underlying code debugging is necessary.

I do know that some version of the MS VS20xx suite is necessary to begin.
My initial attempts using the VS2019 Community Edition have been less than
successful when it comes to debugging an underlying C library component when
the starting program is python because I have not figured out how to use the
VS2019 environment to do that.

So I would appreciate any RTFM / URL that can guide me in starting to
participate, especially for guidance on debugging procedures for underlying
C components when the initial program is a python script.

I have read most of the "Python Developers Guide" material, but there is not
any Window-specific tooling information that I have seen there yet.  What
other tooling do I need besides a VS20xx environment?

I do have good experience in C programming, but not much in using VS20xx
IDE's.

TIA for your gentle guidance in curing my ignorance.

Peter
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[Python-Dev] Re: Advice / RTFM needed for tool setup to participate in python development from a Windows host

[Paul Moore]

Personally, I just have Visual Studio and VS Code as my text editor. I
rarely use Visual Studio directly, though, I mostly use the
`build.bat` and similar scripts in the `PCBuild` directory.

Having said that, I'm not doing anything like debugging problems with
DLLs, for which I imagine a decent C development environment is
needed. You don't have much choice other than Visual Studio there (no
other compiler is supported on Windows), though, so you'll probably
need to learn that.

Paul

On Wed, 16 Dec 2020 at 18:28,  wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I hope this is the correct place to ask this question.  I have a desire to
> participate in python development in a particular area from my Windows host
> machine, but I am not finding any concise listing of the tool setup needed
> to fully participate, nor any detailed guidance on how to proceed when
> underlying code debugging is necessary.
>
> I do know that some version of the MS VS20xx suite is necessary to begin.
> My initial attempts using the VS2019 Community Edition have been less than
> successful when it comes to debugging an underlying C library component when
> the starting program is python because I have not figured out how to use the
> VS2019 environment to do that.
>
> So I would appreciate any RTFM / URL that can guide me in starting to
> participate, especially for guidance on debugging procedures for underlying
> C components when the initial program is a python script.
>
> I have read most of the "Python Developers Guide" material, but there is not
> any Window-specific tooling information that I have seen there yet.  What
> other tooling do I need besides a VS20xx environment?
>
> I do have good experience in C programming, but not much in using VS20xx
> IDE's.
>
> TIA for your gentle guidance in curing my ignorance.
>
> Peter
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[Python-Dev] Re: Advice / RTFM needed for tool setup to participate in python development from a Windows host

[MRAB]

On 2020-12-16 19:19, Paul Moore wrote:

Personally, I just have Visual Studio and VS Code as my text editor. I
rarely use Visual Studio directly, though, I mostly use the
`build.bat` and similar scripts in the `PCBuild` directory.

Having said that, I'm not doing anything like debugging problems with
DLLs, for which I imagine a decent C development environment is
needed. You don't have much choice other than Visual Studio there (no
other compiler is supported on Windows), though, so you'll probably
need to learn that.

Paul


FWIW, I debug the regex module in Visual Studio 2019 Community.

I compile a release build with optimisations turned off when I'm going 
to be single-stepping through the code, otherwise it's very confusing 
with it jumping around all over the place due to the optimisations it's 
done.



On Wed, 16 Dec 2020 at 18:28,  wrote:


Hello,

I hope this is the correct place to ask this question.  I have a desire to
participate in python development in a particular area from my Windows host
machine, but I am not finding any concise listing of the tool setup needed
to fully participate, nor any detailed guidance on how to proceed when
underlying code debugging is necessary.

I do know that some version of the MS VS20xx suite is necessary to begin.
My initial attempts using the VS2019 Community Edition have been less than
successful when it comes to debugging an underlying C library component when
the starting program is python because I have not figured out how to use the
VS2019 environment to do that.

So I would appreciate any RTFM / URL that can guide me in starting to
participate, especially for guidance on debugging procedures for underlying
C components when the initial program is a python script.

I have read most of the "Python Developers Guide" material, but there is not
any Window-specific tooling information that I have seen there yet.  What
other tooling do I need besides a VS20xx environment?

I do have good experience in C programming, but not much in using VS20xx
IDE's.

TIA for your gentle guidance in curing my ignorance.

Peter


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[Python-Dev] Re: Advice / RTFM needed for tool setup to participate in python development from a Windows host

[pjfarley3]

Yes, that is my specific issue.  I have a C DLL invoked by a python wrapper 
module using ctypes that has at least one issue (and likely more than one) so I 
need to be able to start a python test script and debug the lower-level DLL 
code.  The C test programs for the lower-level C DLL all seen to succeed, so I 
am suspecting something is wrong in the wrapper code.

If anyone has or knows of step-by-step instructions on how to set that debug 
environment up and start the outer-level script with debug breakpoints in the 
DLL I would greatly appreciate it.  I'm also doing my own searches for 
tutorials on debugging python with VS20xx, but have not read/viewed one of 
those yet.

I have in fact been able to re-compile cpython and the lower-level DLL using 
the VS2019 command line tools, but so far my only debugging capability has been 
to insert fprintf's to a trace file in the lower-level DLL code (or macros that 
result in such output) into the C code where I *think* the problem is 
happening, but I have not been able to nail it down yet.  Being able to start 
the process from the IDE and catch any C errors when they happen would be ideal.

My environment is Win10-64 and python 3.8.5.

Peter

> -Original Message-
> From: Paul Moore 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 2:20 PM
> To: pjfarl...@earthlink.net
> Cc: Python Dev 
> Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Advice / RTFM needed for tool setup to participate 
> in
> python development from a Windows host
> 
> Personally, I just have Visual Studio and VS Code as my text editor. I
> rarely use Visual Studio directly, though, I mostly use the
> `build.bat` and similar scripts in the `PCBuild` directory.
> 
> Having said that, I'm not doing anything like debugging problems with
> DLLs, for which I imagine a decent C development environment is
> needed. You don't have much choice other than Visual Studio there (no
> other compiler is supported on Windows), though, so you'll probably
> need to learn that.
> 
> Paul
> 
> On Wed, 16 Dec 2020 at 18:28,  wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I hope this is the correct place to ask this question.  I have a desire to
> > participate in python development in a particular area from my Windows host
> > machine, but I am not finding any concise listing of the tool setup needed
> > to fully participate, nor any detailed guidance on how to proceed when
> > underlying code debugging is necessary.
> >
> > I do know that some version of the MS VS20xx suite is necessary to begin.
> > My initial attempts using the VS2019 Community Edition have been less than
> > successful when it comes to debugging an underlying C library component
> when
> > the starting program is python because I have not figured out how to use the
> > VS2019 environment to do that.
> >
> > So I would appreciate any RTFM / URL that can guide me in starting to
> > participate, especially for guidance on debugging procedures for underlying
> > C components when the initial program is a python script.
> >
> > I have read most of the "Python Developers Guide" material, but there is not
> > any Window-specific tooling information that I have seen there yet.  What
> > other tooling do I need besides a VS20xx environment?
> >
> > I do have good experience in C programming, but not much in using VS20xx
> > IDE's.
> >
> > TIA for your gentle guidance in curing my ignorance.
> >
> > Peter
--
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[Python-Dev] Re: Advice / RTFM needed for tool setup to participate in python development from a Windows host

[Emily Bowman]

Even if Python itself is the standard distribution, you should be able to
debug your outside DLL module in VS just by putting a breakpoint on your
favorite line and setting "/path/to/python.exe -m yourmodule" as the
command path under debugging in your project properties, or whatever
commandline accomplishes whatever initialization you need to test.
Multiprocessing might be something else entirely, I don't know, I've only
debugged DLLs in-process. As soon as your breakpoint is hit, it'll stop as
you'd expect, even though you started something else entirely.

-Em

On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 4:56 PM  wrote:

> Yes, that is my specific issue.  I have a C DLL invoked by a python
> wrapper module using ctypes that has at least one issue (and likely more
> than one) so I need to be able to start a python test script and debug the
> lower-level DLL code.  The C test programs for the lower-level C DLL all
> seen to succeed, so I am suspecting something is wrong in the wrapper code.
>
> If anyone has or knows of step-by-step instructions on how to set that
> debug environment up and start the outer-level script with debug
> breakpoints in the DLL I would greatly appreciate it.  I'm also doing my
> own searches for tutorials on debugging python with VS20xx, but have not
> read/viewed one of those yet.
>
> I have in fact been able to re-compile cpython and the lower-level DLL
> using the VS2019 command line tools, but so far my only debugging
> capability has been to insert fprintf's to a trace file in the lower-level
> DLL code (or macros that result in such output) into the C code where I
> *think* the problem is happening, but I have not been able to nail it down
> yet.  Being able to start the process from the IDE and catch any C errors
> when they happen would be ideal.
>
> My environment is Win10-64 and python 3.8.5.
>
> Peter
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Paul Moore 
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 2:20 PM
> > To: pjfarl...@earthlink.net
> > Cc: Python Dev 
> > Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Advice / RTFM needed for tool setup to
> participate in
> > python development from a Windows host
> >
> > Personally, I just have Visual Studio and VS Code as my text editor. I
> > rarely use Visual Studio directly, though, I mostly use the
> > `build.bat` and similar scripts in the `PCBuild` directory.
> >
> > Having said that, I'm not doing anything like debugging problems with
> > DLLs, for which I imagine a decent C development environment is
> > needed. You don't have much choice other than Visual Studio there (no
> > other compiler is supported on Windows), though, so you'll probably
> > need to learn that.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > On Wed, 16 Dec 2020 at 18:28,  wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I hope this is the correct place to ask this question.  I have a
> desire to
> > > participate in python development in a particular area from my Windows
> host
> > > machine, but I am not finding any concise listing of the tool setup
> needed
> > > to fully participate, nor any detailed guidance on how to proceed when
> > > underlying code debugging is necessary.
> > >
> > > I do know that some version of the MS VS20xx suite is necessary to
> begin.
> > > My initial attempts using the VS2019 Community Edition have been less
> than
> > > successful when it comes to debugging an underlying C library component
> > when
> > > the starting program is python because I have not figured out how to
> use the
> > > VS2019 environment to do that.
> > >
> > > So I would appreciate any RTFM / URL that can guide me in starting to
> > > participate, especially for guidance on debugging procedures for
> underlying
> > > C components when the initial program is a python script.
> > >
> > > I have read most of the "Python Developers Guide" material, but there
> is not
> > > any Window-specific tooling information that I have seen there yet.
> What
> > > other tooling do I need besides a VS20xx environment?
> > >
> > > I do have good experience in C programming, but not much in using
> VS20xx
> > > IDE's.
> > >
> > > TIA for your gentle guidance in curing my ignorance.
> > >
> > > Peter
> --
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>
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[Python-Dev] Re: Advice / RTFM needed for tool setup to participate in python development from a Windows host

[pjfarley3]

Thank you Emily!  That may allow me to do what I need to do to find the 
error(s) lurking there.

 

No multi-processing is involved in my current project, so it should be more 
straightforward to accomplish the debugging I need to do.

 

Peter

 

From: Emily Bowman  
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 8:11 PM
To: pjfarl...@earthlink.net
Cc: Python Dev 
Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Re: Advice / RTFM needed for tool setup to 
participate in python development from a Windows host

 

Even if Python itself is the standard distribution, you should be able to debug 
your outside DLL module in VS just by putting a breakpoint on your favorite 
line and setting "/path/to/python.exe -m yourmodule" as the command path under 
debugging in your project properties, or whatever commandline accomplishes 
whatever initialization you need to test. Multiprocessing might be something 
else entirely, I don't know, I've only debugged DLLs in-process. As soon as 
your breakpoint is hit, it'll stop as you'd expect, even though you started 
something else entirely.

 

-Em

 

On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 4:56 PM mailto:pjfarl...@earthlink.net> > wrote:

Yes, that is my specific issue.  I have a C DLL invoked by a python wrapper 
module using ctypes that has at least one issue (and likely more than one) so I 
need to be able to start a python test script and debug the lower-level DLL 
code.  The C test programs for the lower-level C DLL all seen to succeed, so I 
am suspecting something is wrong in the wrapper code.

If anyone has or knows of step-by-step instructions on how to set that debug 
environment up and start the outer-level script with debug breakpoints in the 
DLL I would greatly appreciate it.  I'm also doing my own searches for 
tutorials on debugging python with VS20xx, but have not read/viewed one of 
those yet.

I have in fact been able to re-compile cpython and the lower-level DLL using 
the VS2019 command line tools, but so far my only debugging capability has been 
to insert fprintf's to a trace file in the lower-level DLL code (or macros that 
result in such output) into the C code where I *think* the problem is 
happening, but I have not been able to nail it down yet.  Being able to start 
the process from the IDE and catch any C errors when they happen would be ideal.

My environment is Win10-64 and python 3.8.5.

Peter

> -Original Message-
> From: Paul Moore mailto:p.f.mo...@gmail.com> >
> Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 2:20 PM
> To: pjfarl...@earthlink.net  
> Cc: Python Dev mailto:python-dev@python.org> >
> Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Advice / RTFM needed for tool setup to participate 
> in
> python development from a Windows host
> 
> Personally, I just have Visual Studio and VS Code as my text editor. I
> rarely use Visual Studio directly, though, I mostly use the
> `build.bat` and similar scripts in the `PCBuild` directory.
> 
> Having said that, I'm not doing anything like debugging problems with
> DLLs, for which I imagine a decent C development environment is
> needed. You don't have much choice other than Visual Studio there (no
> other compiler is supported on Windows), though, so you'll probably
> need to learn that.
> 
> Paul
> 
> On Wed, 16 Dec 2020 at 18:28,   > wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I hope this is the correct place to ask this question.  I have a desire to
> > participate in python development in a particular area from my Windows host
> > machine, but I am not finding any concise listing of the tool setup needed
> > to fully participate, nor any detailed guidance on how to proceed when
> > underlying code debugging is necessary.
> >
> > I do know that some version of the MS VS20xx suite is necessary to begin.
> > My initial attempts using the VS2019 Community Edition have been less than
> > successful when it comes to debugging an underlying C library component
> when
> > the starting program is python because I have not figured out how to use the
> > VS2019 environment to do that.
> >
> > So I would appreciate any RTFM / URL that can guide me in starting to
> > participate, especially for guidance on debugging procedures for underlying
> > C components when the initial program is a python script.
> >
> > I have read most of the "Python Developers Guide" material, but there is not
> > any Window-specific tooling information that I have seen there yet.  What
> > other tooling do I need besides a VS20xx environment?
> >
> > I do have good experience in C programming, but not much in using VS20xx
> > IDE's.
> >
> > TIA for your gentle guidance in curing my ignorance.
> >
> > Peter
--
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