[Pan-users] Pan Posting Binaries at the Reply Level
When posting binaries to a newsgroup the files are not posted at top level but appear at the reply level.. ie I posted in the a.b.emulator.misc newsgroup some amiga Tosec updates... I see my post with the subject line as [+] Update to TOSEC 2013-03-18 But all the binaries are hidden until the message is expanded with the usual [+] as though wishing to view a reply to the message. [-] Update to TOSEC 2013-03-18 Binary File 1 Binary File 2 etc... If posting binaries there should be an option to post each file at the top level with the subject line as usual in all binary NG's. so instead we should then see... Update to TOSEC 2013-03-18 - Binary File 1 Update to TOSEC 2013-03-18 - Binary File 2 Update to TOSEC 2013-03-18 - Binary File 3 etc... Ok, the way pan works atm is neat but users may miss the binary posts as they are hidden and it is does not follow the usual etiquette. David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Score file - Pan 0.140 Windows - obsolete article scores
Looking at this because scoring rules are beginning to behave strangely - for example "Ignore" rules are beginning to be ignored, and "Watch" rule disappear when I respond to a watched thread. My Score file is nearly 200 kB which may or may not be the problem. Looking at the first few entries of my Score file I can see scoring rules to watch articles which are dated back to June 2014. The articles have long since been deleted automatically. Is there any reason why these scores are still here, and are not deleted when the matching article is deleted? Alternatively, is there a setting to remove scores when an article expires? I note that the rules have an expiry date of July 2014 (so only valid for one month). Is there any "tidy" option to clean out expired "watch" scores? This does seem like the equivalent of a memory leak - continual extending of resources without any tidying up. Regards Dave R --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] collapsible hierarchies?
If you look at Thunderbird Mail & News, it does some things better than Pan such as collapsible hierarchies. I use almost 1,000 newsgroups so it'd be helpful if each (sub)category could be collapsible. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] haven't read your own sent messages?
Apparently all posts I send to NNTP newsgroups become 'new'/'unread' in my own sent box but if I post I've already written/read/revised/reread enough hours of course I've already read! Can't they only show up 'new'/'unread' in drafts until sent then save in sent box 'read?' Does anyone else even really consider something oneself posted unread other than checking it got to actual newsgroup (but likely not reading until any reply)? ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] pan always crashing fast again
On 9/3/22 4:00 AM, Rhialto wrote: On Fri 02 Sep 2022 at 19:37:53 -0700, dchme...@gmail.com wrote: Like for past few years until earlier this year, pan always crashes fast again (on Slackware64 15+current GNU/Linux). Pan always says something like this before crashing: (pan:16759): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 19:23:47.724: IA__gtk_tree_view_column_set_fixed_width: assertion 'fixed_width > 0' failed If it says that, it suggests it has something to do with a user interface element. And that would possibly be stored in .pan2/preferences.xml. Moving aside that file might be enough. [...] I didn't change much: just set to show only subject, from, time, lines and/or bytes. Pan only sometimes (50% to 75% times?) says this before crashing: [1]+ Segmentation fault pan People seem to have changed the meaning of "crashing" [...]. Yes: when others than research scientists started using computers. If a program isn't supposed to stop but does without a user asking (excluding accidentally) everyone I know (even older programmers/scientists/instructors I've known since early 1990s, and in that time) say 'crash'. After moving preferences.xml I restarted pan--no crash--but now don't see message bodies (might just be my night themes... I'll try tomorrow) and saw the below. (gtk-chtheme:29761): WARNING **: 05:13:42.069: Invalid borders specified for theme pixmap: /usr/share/themes/Menta/gtk-2.0/widgets/Others/null.png, borders don't fit within the image. I don't know what that theme is doing but most/all daytime others I used botched scrollbars and/or analogue clock or emit too much blue. ** (gtk-chtheme:29761): WARNING **: 05:13:42.069: invalid source position for bilinear gradient ** (gtk-chtheme:29761): WARNING **: 05:13:42.069: invalid source position for vertical gradient Can I opt-out of gradients or are those errors also in Menta theme? I don't know what X software installed it but it's nice... ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] pan always crashing fast again
On 9/6/22 1:26 AM, Duncan wrote: dchmelik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w posted on Sun, 4 Sep 2022 21:43:11 -0700 as excerpted: On 9/4/22 5:19 AM, Duncan wrote: dchmelik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w posted on Fri, 2 Sep 2022 19:37:53 -0700 as excerpted: Like for past few years until earlier this year, pan always crashes fast again (on Slackware64 15+current GNU/Linux). Pan always says something like this before crashing: (pan:16759): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 19:23:47.724: IA__gtk_tree_view_column_set_fixed_width: assertion 'fixed_width > 0' failed What version of pan [a]nd do you know or can you check whether it's built against gtk2 or gtk3? GTK2 0.149 OK. At this point, since you don't see a current gtk3 0.151 build, I'd really suggest building it yourself (against gtk3), since 0.147 started modernizing with a switched to gmime3, thereby getting quite buggy and unstable during the modernizing for a few versions (as I've said 0.151 seems to be stable again now, IDR whether 0.150 was yet or not), while IIRC 0.146 code was so dated I was having problems even getting it to build (against gtk2 still) without patches toward the end, and when I did it was buggy. I avoid/dislike version control systems (VCS): in past tried software 'commits' to fix very minor bugs then 'commits' commonly introduce critical bugs they'd never knowingly allow in a stable version. Aren't easily-accessible/properly-numbered 0.150 & 0.151 tarballs going to be released on pan.rebelbase.com? ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] pan always crashing fast again
On 9/8/22 1:00 AM, Dominique Dumont wrote: On Thursday, 8 September 2022 01:25:16 CEST David Chmelik wrote: [...] But you can get tarballs on this gitlabpage: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/pan/-/tags Each version has a button to download source on the right. For instance: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/pan/-/archive/v0.151/pan-v0.151.tar.gz [...] Thanks! GitLab obviously isn't made for people who don't use git and just want to test; I'd have never found that and probably still won't be able to find tarballs later. I compiled pan 0.151 but, after starting, quickly got another segmentation fault. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] [ANNOUNCE] Pan release 0.152
On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 8:57 AM Dominique Dumont wrote: > > Hi > > I happy to announce the release of Pan 0.152 codename "Mariupol" > > Pan is a powerful and user-friendly Usenet newsreader for GTK+. > > The main points of this release are: > - Gtk2 is removed from Pan. Only Gtk3 is working. > - Links to old pan.rebelbase.com are replaced with links to > pan gitlab page. > - Pan can be compiled with clang > > Many thanks to Thomas Tanner for the code cleanup work done on this > release. > > You can get Pan 0.152 release tarball on Gnome's gitlab: > > - https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/pan/-/tags/v0.152 > help -> about says 0.151 Butcha. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] pan always crashing fast again
On 7/7/23 11:51 AM, reijo.korho...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 2023-07-06 at 01:24 -0700, dchme...@gmail.com wrote: On 9/8/22 6:07 AM, Dominique Dumont wrote: On Thursday, 8 September 2022 12:16:10 CEST David Chmelik wrote: I compiled pan 0.151 but, after starting, quickly got another segmentation fault. Can you get a backtrace? [...] Now I compiled 0.154. I don't know that I'll be able to get a backtrace. Do I need debugging compiled in, and if so, how do I do that then get the backtrace? Hi, I don't use and compile pan any more, so my advice is very generic as old school guys do. Pan code is c++, so it can be debugged by gdb. Look gdb manual how to use it. Basic case is "gdb ", where Well, how do I do that? This command had no output: ./configure --help|grep -i debug . ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] no header columns again
On 7/15/23 8:14 PM, Ed Fletcher wrote: On 7/15/23 18:25, dchme...@gmail.com wrote: Pan got upgrade to 0.154 on my OS (Slackware64 15+current GNU/Linux) but once again I'm only seeing the last header of subject, author, date, bytes. Someone said the first three disappeared because of a 'race condition' but I even turned off 'work online', quit, restarted, and it still happened. How do I get those back? It's unusable otherwise. Are you missing columns or headers? If it's columns, got to Edit:Preferences and to the Headers Tab to see if the columns you're missing are selected. If they are already selected, check your column widths at the top of the headers pane. If they are too wide, some columns will disappear off to the right. Check for a horizontal slide bar at the bottom of the Headers Pane. Grab the vertical line between the column headers and slide left or right to readjust the size. If you're missing headers/articles, go to Edit:Preferences then to the Articles Tab and see what it's set to delete articles at. [...] I explained this before; the (selected in preferences) columns disappeared and so did the horizontal slide bar/li, which was described to do so because of a 'race condition'. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] pan always crashing fast again
On 7/19/23 9:31 AM, Dominique Dumont wrote: On Thursday, 6 July 2023 10:24:45 CEST dchme...@gmail.com wrote: Now I compiled 0.154. I don't know that I'll be able to get a backtrace. Do I need debugging compiled in, and if so, how do I do that then get the backtrace? By default, pan is built with with ' -g -O2 ' and the pan executable has the debug symbols. You can then run "gdb ./pan/gui/pan" [...] When I used those arguments/flags/switches and ran 'gdb pan' it said it has no debugging symbols. Below is the configure line from the SlackBuild. ./configure --prefix=/usr --localstatedir=/var/lib --sysconfdir=/etc --mandir=/usr/man --with-gnutls --with-gmime-crypto --with-gtkspell --enable-libnotify --enable-gkr --program-prefix= --program-suffix= --build=$ARCH-slackware-linux ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] pan always crashing fast again
On 7/27/23 9:57 AM, Dominique Dumont wrote: On Thursday, 27 July 2023 09:40:33 CEST dchme...@gmail.com wrote: #0 0x76451ae7 in strtoll_l_internal () at /lib64/libc.so.6 #1 0x76444f90 in atoi () at /lib64/libc.so.6 #2 0x00733631 in pan::DataImpl::load_headers(pan::DataIO const&, pan::Quark const&) () ok, that narrows it down. But there's quite a lot of call to atoi() in load_headers function. So I need a backtrace with the line numbers. This should come with debugging symbols. [...] I think it has them as I ran 'gdb --args pan --debug'. How do I get line numbers then? I'm just a gdb beginner so could use full instructions... Pan now doesn't always crash fast, but always crashes. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] can't move anything
After Dominique Dumont's help (deleted ~/.pan2/groups) I got pan 0.154 working again without crashing, but now I can't move anything: headers, sides of pane, etc. I use some groups with long names and long subject lines so want to move those... currently the date header takes up more than half the header space when instead the subject one should and the author one should be a bit longer too. I guess this is a relic from when screens were smaller (I use 4K now but have it on one-half a screen side) but I used to be able to move headers... is it some setting I missed? I don't know if I have to leave pan on maybe overnight or a few days before it downloads all headers again to prevent the crash. With the number of groups I subscribe to it might take a long time... ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] can't move anything
On 8/27/23 8:22 AM, Dominique Dumont wrote: On Thursday, 24 August 2023 04:07:02 CEST David Chmelik wrote: After Dominique Dumont's help (deleted ~/.pan2/groups) I got pan 0.154 working again without crashing, but now I can't move anything: headers, sides of pane, etc. You can re-order the header columns with Edit->preferences->headers I know. Headers columns width can be adjusted by dragging the tiny vertical line between header names. [...] No they can't: no longer works, and neither does increasing the length of the groups pane. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] can't move anything
On 8/28/23 5:06 AM, Duncan wrote: David Chmelik posted on Sun, 27 Aug 2023 14:43:08 -0700 as excerpted: On 8/27/23 8:22 AM, Dominique Dumont wrote: On Thursday, 24 August 2023 04:07:02 CEST David Chmelik wrote: After Dominique Dumont's help (deleted ~/.pan2/groups) I got pan 0.154 working again without crashing, but now I can't move anything: headers, sides of pane, etc. You can re-order the header columns with Edit->preferences->headers I know. Headers columns width can be adjusted by dragging the tiny vertical line between header names. [...] No they can't: no longer works, and neither does increasing the length of the groups pane. Just to be sure, you must drag the lines in the top labels column (where it says subject, author...), not lower in the actual listings (where each message is listed). [...] I know; clearly I was doing that because I also mentioned trying to move the groups pane to the right (in the standard view/setup) which works similarly. These stopped working: it's frozen in place. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] can't move anything
On 8/28/23 5:06 AM, Duncan wrote: David Chmelik posted on Sun, 27 Aug 2023 14:43:08 -0700 as excerpted: On 8/27/23 8:22 AM, Dominique Dumont wrote: On Thursday, 24 August 2023 04:07:02 CEST David Chmelik wrote: After Dominique Dumont's help (deleted ~/.pan2/groups) I got pan 0.154 working again without crashing, but now I can't move anything: headers, sides of pane, etc. You can re-order the header columns with Edit->preferences->headers I know. Headers columns width can be adjusted by dragging the tiny vertical line between header names. [...] No they can't: no longer works, and neither does increasing the length of the groups pane. Just to be sure, you must drag the lines in the top labels column (where it says subject, author...), not lower in the actual listings (where each message is listed). That's what I originally did. Is there any way I can debug this in pan 0.154. It still works for me, running pan built from git, updated last night. The other alternative is to manually edit the preferences.xml file (in ~/.pan2, with pan closed of course). Make a backup of the file before you edit it just in case you screw up the edit, then open it in a text editor and look for lines like the following (where you replace date with whatever column name you want to change and nnn is the width in pixels, that being the number you'd change): ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] can't move anything
On 9/8/23 9:33 AM, Dominique Dumont wrote: On Friday, 8 September 2023 09:33:41 CEST David Chmelik wrote: That's what I originally did. Is there any way I can debug this in pan 0.154. You can try that: GTK_DEBUG=interactive ./pan/gui/pan I don't understand that; I don't have the source code unarchived or compiled myself, just /usr/bin/pan from Slackware64 15+current's pan-0.154-x86_64-1 package. See https://people.gnome.org/~ebassi/docs/_build/Gtk/4.0/running.html for details [...] Is it possible there was another race condition or some file got corrupted? It's odd because I was using the display defaults; haven't changed anything because that led to them all disappearing in the past. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] can't move anything
On 9/9/23 1:00 AM, David Chmelik wrote: On 9/8/23 9:33 AM, Dominique Dumont wrote: On Friday, 8 September 2023 09:33:41 CEST David Chmelik wrote: That's what I originally did. Is there any way I can debug this in pan 0.154. You can try that: GTK_DEBUG=interactive ./pan/gui/pan I don't understand that; I don't have the source code unarchived or compiled myself, just /usr/bin/pan from Slackware64 15+current's pan-0.154-x86_64-1 package. So, how do I debug for just the normally-installed pan? See https://people.gnome.org/~ebassi/docs/_build/Gtk/4.0/running.html for details [...] Is it possible there was another race condition or some file got corrupted? It's odd because I was using the display defaults; haven't changed anything because that led to them all disappearing in the past. Well? ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] articles don't stay marked read
I have Slackware64 15+current pan-0.154-x86_64-1 and lately had to delete most out of ~/.pan2 because of other bugs. All I still have from there are server configuration and my ~/.newsrc files (linked to there) and things are almost working okay lately (except for bugs mentioned previously like no longer can move anything, maybe because of GTK). Now I have a new problem: if I read some groups then mark them all read, and go to file-> quit and later restart, most groups (almost 1,500) are marked unread, which is all articles I already read days/weeks/months (maybe years) ago or ones I don't want to read right now. This has happened repeatedly; something isn't keeping them marked read anymore before it exits. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] articles don't stay marked read
On 10/16/23 1:07 AM, Duncan wrote: David Chmelik posted on Sat, 14 Oct 2023 05:03:28 - (UTC) as excerpted: I have Slackware64 15+current pan-0.154-x86_64-1 and lately had to delete most out of ~/.pan2 because of other bugs. All I still have from there are server configuration and my ~/.newsrc files (linked to there) and things are almost working okay lately (except for bugs mentioned previously like no longer can move anything, maybe because of GTK). Now I have a new problem: if I read some groups then mark them all read, and go to file-> quit and later restart, most groups (almost 1,500) are marked unread, which is all articles I already read days/weeks/months (maybe years) ago or ones I don't want to read right now. This has happened repeatedly; something isn't keeping them marked read anymore before it exits. Your problem might be more serious than this, but... Try quick-switching to a different group (and back, if desired) and see if that locks in the status on the group you were in (switched /from/). That's impractical: sometimes I mark several hundred groups read at once. Long ago, before pan got the autosave timers that in theory make this unnecessary (and through less-than-stable-system periods), I got in the habit of doing this periodically to force pan to save current status on the group I was working in. That way, a crash (pan or system) would revert me to my last status-saving-switch, instead of forgetting the read-status of perhaps hundreds (text group I actually read) or thousands (binary group, could be tens of thousands in video groups) of messages. Of course with 1500 groups subscribed I don't suppose you're reading them all every session, but in theory, if you've not touched the group (and don't have any of the auto-fetch-headers and/or auto-mark-read options in preferences, behavior, groups, checked, if you do, try unchecking them and doing it manually and see if the problem persists), it shouldn't matter. They were already un-checked/-ticked. The other read-tracking quirk I'm aware of regards cross-posts. If headers are deleted from the first group(s) you read of the cross-posted groups before you visit one (or more) of the others, pan at least /used/ to (not sure if it still does) lose track of the fact that you'd already read those posts in the other group. It could only track that fact as long as the headers were still there from the first group(s) of the cross-posts you visited. It's at least 99% not cross-posts. Just earlier today pan showed almost all (mostly unrelated) groups with new messages, even though many of them didn't have new messages. It was often older messages that were showing up as unread with several newer ones still marked read. If none of that helps the bug is likely something to do with newsrc file handling (or the server-side parallel to it, see below) since that's where pan stores the read-message data. Of course the actual bug could be in writing out the files (pan or its libs), the filesystem (kernel or hardware), reading them back in (pan or its libs), or even something corrupting memory (pan or its libs, the kernel, memory, CPU or powersupply hardware). My PC has various hardware monitoring and didn't report any problems, and I've been using Linux kernel 6.1.n (SLTS). Or it could be server problems, particularly if it's a high-volume multi- machine load-balanced server. In the past I've seen reports where such machines got out of sync for some reason, such that one or more bad machines were returning message sequence numbers that didn't match what the peer machines were doing. Of course this tended to screw clients up sufficiently that people didn't stay connected to that machine for long, so its load was less than that of the others, which made the load-balancers all the more eager to send new connections to it! A way to check for this (also a symptom if you switch servers while using the same account and thus the same newsrc, or if the server resets its sequence numbers making it effectively a different server at the same address, as can happen with new hardware if the admins aren't careful to avoid the problem) is to examine the xref header sequence numbers, comparing them to the numbers in your newsrc for that group. Accounting for posting volume of the group, if they're way off, that could explain things. (Tho do note that a stale newsrc, say that pan is failing to update, a possibility discussed earlier, would have old, lower numbers, as well.) I just use Eternal September (ES) and Gmane, and never saw this problem with them, but don't know which account you mean. I'm looking for some other public servers now that AIOE closed (which had some more newsgroups ES doesn't). Of course the newsrc message sequence numbers could (in simplest concept) be lower or higher. If they're lo
[Pan-users] number of times one has to press to select multiple groups
This is a new feature/but issue but I have an older, more important thread that I haven't received instructions what to try next, which was about I no longer can move any of the panes. Every time I select multiple groups I must press the mouse button twice, if not three or four times. Is it set to only accept 'double "click"' unlike most programs you only have to 'click' once, and is there a way to set it to the normal 'one "click"'? ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] can't move anything
On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 23:52:29 - (UTC), Duncan wrote: > Duncan posted on Mon, 28 Aug 2023 12:06:32 - (UTC) as excerpted: >> David Chmelik posted on Sun, 27 Aug 2023 14:43:08 -0700 as excerpted: >>> On 8/27/23 8:22 AM, Dominique Dumont wrote: >>>> On Thursday, 24 August 2023 04:07:02 CEST David Chmelik wrote: >>>>> pan 0.154 I can't move anything: headers, sides of pane, etc. > >>>> Headers columns width can be adjusted by dragging the tiny vertical >>>> line between header names. [...] > >>> No they can't: no longer works, and neither does increasing the >>> length of the groups pane. >> >> Just to be sure, you must drag the lines in the top labels column >> (where it says subject, author...), not lower in the actual listings >> (where each message is listed). >> >> It still works for me, running pan built from git, updated last night. > > Not sure why that GUI method isn't working for you, but... I don't use git but still can't move anything in last few/couple stable pan versions (0.154, 0.155, ...) even after deleting preferences.xml (could move everything in all previous pan versions for 10+ years). >> The other alternative is to manually edit the preferences.xml file (in >> ~/.pan2, with pan closed of course). Make a backup of the file before >> you edit it just in case you screw up the edit, then open it in a text >> editor and look for lines like the following (where you replace date >> with whatever column name you want to change and nnn is the width in >> pixels, that being the number you'd change): >> >> I'm talking about panes and headers. Headers aren't so important I'd edit a file to set, but since earlier this year I can no longer increase groups pane to see longer names, and no longer decrease message pane to see more article lines. Since happened on a few stable versions, maybe GTK broke. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] can't move anything
On Wed, 04 Oct 2023 17:45:01 +0200, Dominique Dumont wrote: > On Wednesday, 4 October 2023 03:00:33 CEST David Chmelik wrote: >> >> GTK_DEBUG=interactive ./pan/gui/pan >> > I don't understand that; I don't have the source code unarchived or >> > compiled myself, just /usr/bin/pan from Slackware64 15+current's >> > pan-0.154-x86_64-1 package. >> >> So, how do I debug for just the normally-installed pan? > > Could you show us the problem you're seeing with a screencast ? Since there's apparently nothing else to do, despite this will be difficult, I'll try this, but all you'll see is me going over all the areas to move panels & headers with nothing happening. What program do you suggest to 'screencast'? ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] no longer can view sent articles
I can no longer can view sent articles selecting them just for many minutes only shows blank message pane (no headers, nothing). Where can I find these in ~/.pan2 in case I need to review? ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] can't move anything
On Wed, 04 Oct 2023 17:45:01 +0200, Dominique Dumont wrote: > On Wednesday, 4 October 2023 03:00:33 CEST David Chmelik wrote: >> >> GTK_DEBUG=interactive ./pan/gui/pan >> > I don't understand that; I don't have the source code unarchived or >> > compiled myself, just /usr/bin/pan from Slackware64 15+current's >> > pan-0.154-x86_64-1 package. >> >> So, how do I debug for just the normally-installed pan? > > Could you show us the problem you're seeing with a screencast ? Here you go, but I don't think it shows anything I haven't adequately described, just is evidence/proof: http://youtu.be/VfW1V73fzkk . Seem to be too many bugs such as race conditions and similar. I had to try thrice to record this without the headers pane disappearing completely after I started pan, even though I hadn't deselected it... the third time it didn't disappear before recording but could still while using today... in past specific headers disappeared with race conditions but now the whole pane... maybe this issue of being unable to move panes nor headers is another of these sort of bugs, which has happened with last two or three stable versions and some git versions... don't know if some code changed in Pan that causes this or in GTK... after enough Pan computer/software programmers/developers view this video I can delete it. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] can't move anything
On Tue, 02 Jan 2024 11:44:36 +0100, Dominique Dumont wrote: > On Tuesday, 2 January 2024 08:20:36 CET David Chmelik wrote: >> Here you go, but I don't think it shows anything I haven't adequately >> described, just is evidence/proof: http://youtu.be/VfW1V73fzkk . > > I've viewed it. > > You mentioned that you're running pan on slackware. What window manager > are you using (kde, gnome or something else ?). Those are bloated/slow. I use XFCE. > Are you using X11 or wayland ? > > I see on the video that the header scroll bar disappear when you hover > on a draggable area, this may indicate that dragging a border is > possible even though the mouse cursor has not changed. > > Could you try to move a header column separator when the scrollbar > vanishes when you hover the separation between 2 columns ? Apparently it is possible now. I thought the mouse cursor used to change. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] number of times one has to press to select multiple groups
On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 23:05:24 - (UTC), Duncan wrote: > David Chmelik posted on Sun, 17 Dec 2023 07:32:10 - (UTC) as > excerpted: > >> Every time I select multiple groups I must press the mouse button >> twice, if not three or four times. Is it set to only accept 'double >> "click"' unlike most programs you only have to 'click' once, and is >> there a way to set it to the normal 'one "click"'? > > Check under Preferences > Mouse . If those are both set > singe-activates, I'd guess it's related to your larger problem, as it's > working here as expected -- single click on additional groups with ctrl > pressed adds/ subtracts the just-clicked group to/from the selected > list, while doing so with shift instead of ctrl selects ranges of > groups. I'm talking about with and might be selecting hundreds groups. > But the mention of three/four times reminds me of the behavior I see > when my touchpad is acting up -- IOW a hardware issue (or more likely > firmware within the touchpad, or possibly the driver, in any case well > below the application software level). I even installed a brand-new mouse but still have same problem. Seems might be related to fact that sometimes it takes several minutes to load a group, so if I select one, it starts loading it, but then maybe I can't select others until finished loading. Sometimes I just select one to read and come back much later. It'd be good if pan can just load what's in the headers windows and not necessarily the entire group until you start scrolling, if one even does (not always/often). ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] article cache size
On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 21:10:56 + (UTC), Duncan wrote: > As to your question, years ago I was the person who asked to bump the > max cache size from 1 GiB -- I needed 4 GiB at the time and it was > bumped to 20, which was great. What size do you recommend if I currently use 1,500+ newsgroups, and some are binary but dead, so let's say all plain-text, but some are high- traffic like the Linux kernel listserv on gmane? I rarely read that; it's more out of curiosity. There's maybe under 40 I'd read daily if they have traffic, but many/most don't except occasionally/rarely, though usually there's something daily. Most are miscellaneous subjects, like computer science/engineering & software I just occasionally have questions on, like here, but other times don't keep up on, and just select and mark read. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] article cache size
On 3/8/24 5:49 PM, Duncan wrote: David Chmelik posted on Fri, 8 Mar 2024 05:19:17 - (UTC) as excerpted: On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 21:10:56 + (UTC), Duncan wrote: As to your question, years ago I was the person who asked to bump the max cache size from 1 GiB -- I needed 4 GiB at the time and it was bumped to 20, which was great. What size do you recommend if I currently use 1,500+ newsgroups, and some are binary but dead, so let's say all plain-text, but some are high- traffic like the Linux kernel listserv on gmane? I rarely read that; it's more out of curiosity. There's maybe under 40 I'd read daily if they have traffic, but many/most don't except occasionally/rarely, though usually there's something daily. Most are miscellaneous subjects, like computer science/engineering & software I just occasionally have questions on, like here, but other times don't keep up on, and just select and mark read. Interesting/good question. [...] At a guess, I'd say start with a gig. That should reasonably safely accommodate even your 100X the number of groups, text-mostly, for a "reasonable" period of a month or so, which I'll say is about the max time discussion threads are likely to be active so you can refer back to previous articles without re-downloading, again assuming you're not downloading everything in the group. If you want to be extra safe or see messages you know you downloaded disappearing (and your filesystems aren't going haywire due to crashing and filesystem immaturity... btrfs is generally past that now but was still a bit iffy when I started with it), double that to 2 GiB (uncompressed), which again is roughly what I'm seeing with some groups near-archived for 20+ years now, but at ~1% of the groups. Even with ~1500 groups, text-mostly, downloading-to-cache near all messages, I'd be quite surprised to see usage over 2 GiB with an effective lifetime of under a month (even two), because that's simply *HARD* to do with text-mostly groups ... *UNLESS* you're grabbing some prolifically AI- spammed groups or something (the *HARD* to do assumes *humans* actually writing all those messages -- two GiB of data is simply a LOT of text for even a few hundred /humans/ to write over a couple months, but automate it with AI and that assumption's out the window!) If you're considering a dedicated partition, 5 gig for it should be good, as it is for me. If you're actually archiving those 1500 groups... I'd say start with 10 GiB, but until you have say a year of history to make a reasonable projection into the future, watch the usage and consider the possibility of having to adjust that up or being able to adjust it down, with a dedicated partition if used similarly larger, maybe 20 or 25 gig. With a year of history you should be able to project /reasonably/ comfortably the usage out to storage replacement cycle lengths (double the year's activity for a reasonable margin and multiply to cover your time until expected upgrade, increase by 50% or double again for dedicated partition size if used -- unless of course activity is multiplying, as it well could be on groups with uncontrolled AI spam). Thanks! I did read most your reply but wasn't aware how cache worked. If I could archive newsgroups I've read back to when I started in 1996 or even to Usenet's beginning, in case I want to read old threads, I'd do it, but most likely just want headers... maybe I should ask about elsewhere (some news.* or alt.*usenet?). Yes, I subscribed to binary newsgroups but there really are zero messages in them--since '0s with companies/corporations threatening lawsuits, public providers dropped those, so when we no longer had on (new) ISP since 2014, I found those completely dead on eternal-september.org ... lately they restored some/all but all I use are still 100% dead. Binary newsgroups don't count at all for me except (in recent thread here about interface bug) on a news.gmane.io newsgroup I mentioned someone did post an image in a text newsgroup without asking if that's allowed, and that's probably the only binary message I have, but probably just a few KB to a MB. I don't think I really need to archive messages once I read them, though it'd be nice if I could access my posting history back to the '0s or 1990s, even if it was different email addresses... in fact I selected 'clear cache on exit' in pan, because I thought cache had to do with just what was used in a session... now that I read your explanation, I'll unset that because it'd be good to keep message bodies at least a month until any threads (like science/technology/software) are finished/resolved... other stuff like rec.arts.comics.*, rec.games.abstract,frp,roguelike.*, sci.math I tend to read once and that's it. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] no longer get message bodies
On Sat, 9 Mar 2024 06:04:21 - (UTC), Duncan wrote: > dchmelik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w posted on Fri, 8 Mar 2024 19:44:16 -0800 > as excerpted: > >> Lately I could no longer get message headers (on >> news.eternal-september.org (ES) nor news.gmane.io) (and preferences.xml >> maybe got corrupted again (seems to happen regularly) this time in my >> ES password) but could after I restart, but still can't get message >> bodies even if I select 'read this article'. The only change I made >> lately was increase article cache to 1Gb. > > If you click on the log (button on the status bar, bottom right, or use > the menu option), what does it say about the attempts? > > What about tasks (bottom left)? Does it stay at No Tasks when you try > to get the message, or does it display the task momentarily? If the > latter, does it show the task if you open the task dialog, and what does > it say is the status there? > > Also, how what is the actual size of the files in the cache? (On linux, > du /path/to/cache, probably du ~/.pan/article-cache or the like, in a > terminal window.) > > Talking about which... ensure that the cache dir exists and is readable/ > writable and on *ix executable (aka enterable, for a directory) for your > user. Maybe it got deleted somehow and the recreation is screwed up due > to filemask or some such, so the permissions are wrong. (I actually had > that happen once... when I had the filemask set unusually due to a > security bug pan had had shortly before, so pan couldn't actually see > inside the dir because it didn't have execute/enter permissions on it -- > I wasn't thinking about it trying to recreate directories when I set the > mask.) > > Does manually deleting all the files (or the dir, but recreate the empty > dir, you can of course back it up before deletion if you don't want to > actually lose what's in the cache) in the cache help? I got all that information and replied, but accidentally used wrong email address (thanks for not accepting it because I wanted to keep it private) but then found that after some crash (maybe couldn't connect to ES repeatedly after wrong password likely from corrupt preferences.xml) pan set mode to offline. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Removed deprecated StatusIcon
On Sun, 05 May 2024 18:17:54 +0200, Dominique Dumont wrote: > [... While investigating compilation warnings, I've learnt that > StatusIcon are deprecated [1], so I've removed this feature from pan > [2]. > > Actually, I could not see any difference in Pan bevahior after this > removal. > > Please get back to me if you see a problem. No longer works in XFCE. :( ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] pan reformatting my posts
I posted to nntp:alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt in which I had these two lists (one numbered with two spaces before, and one bulleted with no spaces before). On each, pan2 removed my newlines and messed up formatting. When I tried a second time to correct myself, same happened. I certainly pressed each time to make the new lines. 1. versatility (slots, hopefully plain PCI and two USB3 headers) 2. power/speed (preferably AMD, DDR5, M2 but only needs one or two) * SuperMicro X13SAE-F * BioStar BIW68-AHP (only DDR4 but more plain PCI slots) ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Re: clearing headers?
On Mon, Oct 06, 2008 at 11:48:15PM +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 07:31:04 pm Yavor Doganov wrote: > > ?? Sat, 04 Oct 2008 13:00:39 +1000, Steven D'Aprano : > > > Linux is an operating system, not a mail client. > > > > No, Linux is a kernel -- nothing more, nothing less. See > > http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html. > > The GNU people have their opinion. It's not one shared by many others. > Possibly not shared by *any* others. > > That's why people talk about "the Linux kernel" as opposed to "the Linux > operating system", e.g. the first paragraph from Wikipedia's article on > Linux states: > > "Linux ... is a Unix-like computer operating system family which uses > the Linux kernel." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux Just because Wikipedia says, doesn't make it so. If Linux is an operating system rather than a kernel, please point me to the One True Source? Because Linux is not the whole package operating system others have to bundle other stuff to make it usable for the masses. This is what Red Hat, Debian, and others do. Linux can not load itself at boot without help, and no everyone agrees how to do that. > Similarly there's a Mach kernel (note the H), upon which the Mac (note > the lack of H) OS X operating system runs; a Windows NT kernel upon > which the Windows NT, XP and other operating systems run; and so forth. MacOS X kernel is a Heinz 57 kernel. It uses anything and everything from everywhere losing any semblance of being a purebred kernel. As such it is formally recognized as a BSD kernel. A highly respected BSD academic concisely summarized (my paraphrase), "The difference between BSD and Linux is that in BSD all the kernels are different and everything else is the same. In Linux all the kernels are the same and everything else is different." -- David Kelly N4HHE, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Re: clearing headers?
On Oct 7, 2008, at 5:09 PM, CSV4ME2 wrote: First Richard S. cs. created GNU in the eighties, than there was Linus T creating Linux in the nineties and later on glueing GNU unto the Linux kernel giving us a nice UNIX clone. No, Stallman failed to create GNU. GNU was to be Stallman's OS. GCC is only the C compiler created for GNU. GNU recursively stands for Gnu is Not Unix. Stallman's vision did not appear until an upstart in Finland made a workable kernel. It just so happened that he used the compiler Stallman championed. Then others started packaging "distributions" which included gcc and other components intended for GNU. BSD components were also used. The mix depended all upon whoever was packaging the distribution. This is why Linux is only the kernel, not the OS. When GNU failed to produce a complete OS, Stallman lays claim to Linux by trying to label it GNU/Linux. I quit trying to use Linux back in the Slackware days. Was too unstable. One still had to collect patchkits from various places to make it run properly, and then patches often conflicted and nothing ran properly. After crashes trashed my filesystem the 3rd time in one week requiring the 3rd complete re-install I tried FreeBSD 2.0.0- RELEASE. It too wasn't perfect, but it ran reliably doing the tasks Linux would not run reliably. Last week one of my FreeBSD boxes reached 730 days of uptime, and is still running as an in-house email, web server, and SVN repository. Composed and sent via MacOS X. -- David Kelly N4HHE, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Re: clearing headers?
On Wed, Oct 08, 2008 at 08:13:27AM +, Yavor Doganov wrote: > > > How can it be the same system if it is running a different kernel? Are > > you saying that there is no difference between the Linux kernel and the > > FreeBSD kernel? > > It is a different system, but all those packages work with kFreeBSD, with > no source changes (mostly). So how can you call the system "Linux" when > the system works with a different kernel? Try to remove all the GNU > software, and see what happens. FreeBSD has in addition to the native FreeBSD native API, an optional Linux API to allow use of unmodified Linux binaries. Portions of Linux code are lifted from Linux to implement this optional kernel module. -- David Kelly N4HHE, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Re: OT: GNU/Linux Was: clearing headers?
On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 10:30:06AM +, Duncan wrote: > Yavor Doganov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted > [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Thu, 09 Oct 2008 > 08:53:31 +: > > >> Yet I don't see the big deal about GNU/Linux, either. > > > > Don't you agree with the reasons at > > http://gnu.org/gnu/why-gnu-linux.html? > > Within context, no. It'd be a very good thing if distributions better > differentiated free and unfree and let people know the difference, but > that has little to do with whether they call it Linux or GNU/Linux. > > >> And no, I'm /not/ going to start calling my particular subset of what > >> my distribution makes available > >> Gentoo/~amd64/KDE/X.org/GNU/Linux! > > > > You don't have to. > > http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#many > > ... And I say they get credit if they wish it, in the individual > applications. That's appropriate. Demanding the entire distribution > give them credit in the form of the name chosen, is not, and strikes me > as very similar to the old SugarCRM style license, considered non-free > due to the requirement for logos, etc, on the various resulting content > pages (it's a web app, the logo was required on the web pages) to > identify them. Were the GNU in GNU/Linux to be legally required, it > would be in exactly the same position. I agree. Its akin to demanding Pan be known as GNU/Pan because its built with gcc and family. Neither RSF nor his FSF created Linux. GNU tools helped, but so did many other sources. Demanding this level of credit for Linux is an excellent example of the not-free nature of FSF/GNU software. A wise man once taught me to watch for one of the most effective means of telling a lie: be the first to make the claim then repeat it over and over to hammer it home. People believe what they repeatedly hear without thinking. FSF does this by claiming their software is free. While there is no monetary cost up front to use GPL software, GPL is far from "free" or even "freedom." -- David Kelly N4HHE, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Two instances of PAN
Rick Barry wrote: Hi folks, I'd like to run 2 separate instances of PAN 0.132 in Ubuntu 8.04.1. Is this possible? If so, how would I achieve this? I think all you'd have to do would be to set the environment variable PAN_HOME to something other than $HOME/.pan2 for the second instance. For example, you could set it to $HOME/.pan2.2 and the 2nd instance would use ~/.pan2.2 for its database. To make it more convenient, you could write a 2-line script that sets PAN_HOME to the non-standard value and then runs pan. You would then just use that script to launch the 2nd instance. You could have 2 panel launchers, with one just launching pan normally and the other running the script. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] update on freeze, high CPU getting new headers: GNOME!
This problem, which I first reported back on August 1 (http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/pan-users/2008-08/msg0.html), has remained unsolved and highly annoying. Then, 2 days ago, I got an E-mail from another pan user saying that he had the same problem, asking whether I had found a solution. I told him I had not, and reiterated the strange fact that the problem is totally absent when I run pan under MacOS X. Somehow, he thought of testing for the problem under Linux, but using a different desktop, namely XFCE. Bingo! This made the problem vanish (note that we have both been using GNOME under Ubuntu). I promptly tried XFCE myself and reproduced his success on my own system. And tonight, I loaded KDE onto my system and tried pan there. Once again, no trace of the problem. As hard as I find this to believe, it appears to be a GNOME problem, or a pan/GNOME incompatibility, at least under Ubuntu, both Hardy and the new Intrepid, both 64 (which he is running) and 32 bit (which I am). It seems ironic, considering that the first pan version I used (let's call it old old pan) was explicitly advertised as a GNOME newsreader, and used GNOME libraries. I have been a loyal GNOME user for almost 10 years, but XFCE seems to do everything I need so I guess it's finally time for a vacation from GNOME. I'll keep retrying it from time to time to see if the problem is still there. It definitely did not used to be there, so it must have crept in with some GNOME/Ubuntu update. Meanwhile, I cannot imagine what the mechanism of this could be. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Re: Two instances of PAN-a couple of glitches
Rick Barry wrote: The other perplexing glitch: I open a terminal and type pan.giga, it launches but then the process appears to "own" the terminal. pan.giga & The ampersand puts it into the background so that you regain control of the terminal. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Preserving Pan Session History Between XP/Mandriva
Christopher Boorman wrote: I've got my thunderbird mail folder and my firefox bookmarks stored on a separate drive so that whatever I do in one application when I'm in Mandriva will be reflected in XP and vice versa. I'm looking for a way to do this in Pan. Has anyone else had success with this? I haven't actually done this, but it sounds like another job for PAN_HOME. On the Linux side, there are numerous ways to start pan conveniently with PAN_HOME set to a particular value. E.g. on my system, if I wanted my pan database on my vfat format USB drive, I could set PAN_HOME to /media/SEA_DISC/pan. Actually, I just tried at a bash shell prompt: PAN_HOME=/media/SEA_DISC/pan pan and it worked like a charm. I provided a news server, visited a group, read one article and exited. A pan directory had been created on the drive and it contained the usual things. Now I'm sure that you can do something similar in Windows (maybe you would set PAN_HOME to something like E:\pan). Now the only question is whether Windows pan will tolerate the Unix text file format. And when you exit from Windows pan, maybe it will write DOS/Windows format and the question will be whether the Linux version can handle that. Only way to find out is to try. I don't do Windows at home, so I cannot do the full test. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Re: update on freeze, high CPU getting new headers: GNOME!
Duncan wrote: So... you folks having this problem, check which versions of gmime you have installed, [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/lib$ ls libgmime* libgmime-2.0.a libgmime-2.0.solibgmime-2.0.so.2.2.21 libgmime-2.0.la libgmime-2.0.so.2 and which versions pan and gnome depend on. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/local/bin$ ldd pan | grep libgmime libgmime-2.0.so.2 => /usr/lib/libgmime-2.0.so.2 (0xb79c6000) Not sure what to check for gnome, but apparently, I only have 2.0 on my system anyway. And note that pan works fine (for me) under kde as well as under xfce. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Preserving Pan Session History Between XP/Mandriva
Christopher Boorman wrote: David Shochat wrote: Christopher Boorman wrote: I've got my thunderbird mail folder and my firefox bookmarks stored on a separate drive so that whatever I do in one application when I'm in Mandriva will be reflected in XP and vice versa. I'm looking for a way to do this in Pan. Has anyone else had success with this? I haven't actually done this, but it sounds like another job for PAN_HOME. On the Linux side, there are numerous ways to start pan conveniently with PAN_HOME set to a particular value. E.g. on my system, if I wanted my pan database on my vfat format USB drive, I could set PAN_HOME to /media/SEA_DISC/pan. Actually, I just tried at a bash shell prompt: PAN_HOME=/media/SEA_DISC/pan pan and it worked like a charm. I provided a news server, visited a group, read one article and exited. A pan directory had been created on the drive and it contained the usual things. Now I'm sure that you can do something similar in Windows (maybe you would set PAN_HOME to something like E:\pan). Now the only question is whether Windows pan will tolerate the Unix text file format. And when you exit from Windows pan, maybe it will write DOS/Windows format and the question will be whether the Linux version can handle that. Only way to find out is to try. I don't do Windows at home, so I cannot do the full test. -- David Where would I find PAN_HOME? What text file would this be part of? My response deals with the Linux side; you'll have to get a Windows person to tell you how to do the equivalent thing on the Windows side. You could create a script, called for example, shared_pan, using a text editor. In this file, you could place the following 3 lines (I'm assuming my example here; you'd have to change it to suit the shared storage device that you actually have): #!/bin/bash export PAN_HOME=/media/SEA_DISC/pan pan Now you need to make sure your script file is executable using the shell command: chmod 755 shared_pan Now suppose you have placed this file in a directory named bin in your home directory. For me, that would mean it would be in /home/david/bin. Then this command would launch pan with the environment variable setting: /home/david/bin/shared_pan You could type that at a shell prompt, or put it as the command in a panel launcher, allowing you to launch pan, with its database on your shared drive, with a single click of the launcher. If you don't know how to create a panel launcher, tell us what desktop you're running (e.g. GNOME or KDE) and someone here will be able to tell you how. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Re: compile ?
Travis wrote: Can I download it to the desktop? Yes, you can download it wherever you like (that you have write access to). Would that be pan-0.133.tar.bz2 or pan-0.133.tar.gz? Either one. The .bz2 should be slightly smaller, so I generally go with that. How do I untar it? First I'll assume that you did download the tarball to the Desktop. Now cd to the place where you want to unpack it. This too can be anywhere you like, that you have write-access to. For example, say you created a directory under your home directory named "build". Then you'd "cd to it" i.e., you would type, in the terminal window: cd ~/build Now if you chose the .bz2 option, your next command would be: tar -xvjf ~/Desktop/pan-0.133.tar.bz2 If you chose the .gz option, it would be, instead: tar -xvzf ~/Desktop/pan-0.133.tar.bz2 This will create the directory pan-0.133 (and lots of stuff under that). If by "running the various commands" you mean things like "apt-get" from a terminal , that is what I have been doing. What is "cd into it"? Well, "it" in my example would be ~/build/pan-0.133 (or $HOME/build/pan-0.133, same thing) so that would mean typing the following at the shell prompt (in the terminal): cd ~/build/pan-0.133 cd means "change directory". So when you "cd to" a directory, you are making it your current working directory. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Re: compile ?
Travis wrote: How do I know if I have "write access"? Well, let's start with a directory that you should NOT have write access to, like /usr/lib. To test that, cd /usr ls -ld lib When I do that on my system, I get this: drwxr-xr-x 266 root root 90112 2008-12-05 10:51 lib The "root root" means it is owned by root and also has group ownership of root (and you as a regular user should not have root group privilege). The initial "d" means it is a directory. Now look at the part: rwxr-xr-x The first "rwx" means the owner, namely root, has read, write, and search access. The following "r-x" means that those with access to the root group have read and search access but not write access (dash instead of w). The final "r-x" means that everyone else (which means YOU) have read and search access but not write access. So you do not have write access. Now lets check out your Desktop directory. cd ls -ld Desktop (cd with no additional arguments take you to your home directory). When I do that I see this: drwxr-xr-x 2 david rcubed 4096 2008-11-30 14:37 Desktop The "david rcubed" means it is owned by david (that's me) and has group ownership of rcubed. Again, the first "rwx" means the owner has read, write, and search access. Since I am the owner, I have write access. You can also do all this using your desktop file manager. For example, I'm running XFCE but it would be similar for GNOME or KDE. I see an icon on my desktop named "Home". I double-click that and I get a file manager window for my home directory. In GNOME, I think you can do the same thing using the "Places" menu. In the window for my home directory, I see Desktop (a "folder", which is just another name for a directory). I select that, right mouse, and choose "Properties" as you might do in Windows. Now I click on the "Permissions" tab and see that I have read and write access. It should be telling me that I have search access also, but for some reason it doesn't mention that (bad XFCE). Under "Others" it says "Read only". But I'm an old-timer and prefer to use the command line for this sort of thing. Hope that helps. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Re: compile ?
Joe Zeff wrote: On 12/07/2008 David Shochat wrote: rwxr-xr-x The first "rwx" means the owner, namely root, has read, write, and search access. No, the x does not mean search access, it means execute. Root has read/write/execute acdcess, root's group (and the rest of the world) have read/execute, but not write access. HTH, HAND. No, that was a directory (as shown by the initial 'd'). For a directory, the 'x' means search access (there is no such thing as executing a directory). For an ordinary file, it would mean execute access. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] feature request
On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:24 PM, John Aldrich wrote: > I'd like to see a way to link a posting profile to a particular server so > when posting to groups on that server (i.e. news.spamcop.net) it would > always use that profile to post. Right now, I'm having to go in and change > the posting profile whenever I post to the SpamCop news servers, which I find > mildly annoying. > I think the idea is that you have more than one posting profile. You then associate a posting profile to a given group. So, for example, I have a spamcop posting profile, which I have associated with the 2 spamcop groups that interest me. The concept of "when posting to groups on that server" is not well-defined since the same group could be carried by multiple servers. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Re: Is this normal behavior in PAN?
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 6:04 AM, Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote: [snip] > different bug that also occurred on Ubuntu with certain library > versions. In that case, pan when run on GNOME, but NOT when run on XFCE > or on KDE, would stall for some period (like it was in a loop that > repeatedly hit an assertion and bailed, then hit it again processing the > next header, IIRC it was a single thread high CPU utilization stall), > while threading new messages after downloading new headers in a group of > some size. > > As I said, the folks reporting it were all on Ubuntu, at the time 8.04 > but I have no idea whether it was fixed for 8.10 or not, and someone > discovered that it ONLY happened when running GNOME, NOT when running KDE > or XFCE on the same installation. That DEFINITELY points to some sort of > shared library issue but it was never pinned down. I am am one of those with this problem and it does occur in 8.10. I'm on XFCE now and will not try going back to GNOME until the next version of Ubuntu comes along. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Re: Is this normal behavior in PAN?
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote: > David Shochat > posted 9b8d5d890902170312p771775f1jf7c00686436f0...@mail.gmail.com, > excerpted below, on Tue, 17 Feb 2009 06:12:02 -0500: > >>> As I said, the folks reporting [the threading stall] >>> were all on Ubuntu, at the time 8.04 >>> but I have no idea whether it was fixed for 8.10 or not, and someone >>> discovered that it ONLY happened when running GNOME, NOT when running >>> KDE or XFCE on the same installation. That DEFINITELY points to some >>> sort of shared library issue but it was never pinned down. >> >> I am am one of those with this problem and it does occur in 8.10. I'm on >> XFCE now and will not try going back to GNOME until the next version of >> Ubuntu comes along. > > Ouch... tho honestly... since we found it was with GNOME only, it could > be on other distributions, possibly including the Gentoo I'm using, since > I don't do GNOME, only KDE. > > Any chance you could do an ldd pan > pan.ldd.xfce.lst, then start GNOME > long enough to do an ldd pan > pan.ldd.gnome.lst from it? Then post the > two files, or at least a diff between them? > I tried last night to post my results through the gmane NG, but for some reason, that did not work. So I'll repeat myself here. The short answer is that there is no difference in the ldd output whether I do it while running XFCE or GNOME. Every line of ldd output ends with a 32-bit hex value in parentheses and that part does differ. However it also differs if I simply run the ldd command on pan in the same environment twice in succession. I used awk to remove the final hex bit and the resulting filtered output is the same in all cases. I'd be glad to post the output anyway, if you want to see it. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] pan2 installed with Macports - how to start it?
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 7:38 AM, Joachim Osnabryg wrote: > > Yesterday I installed the Newsreader pan2 with MacPorts on > Mac-OSX. That needed about 3 hours, but finally pan2 was > installed. There were no error messages. > > My question now: > > How to start pan2? > (gulp) this almost went out in HTML. Anyway, I'm at work now, so this is from memory. First of all, you need to be running the X Server (maybe just called X11). If you haven't already, you may need to go back to your installation media to install it, since it is an optional install. When you run it (start it the same way you would start any normal MacOS X app), it will bring up an xterm shell window. If you start pan from that window, it should work (DISPLAY should be set properly in that shell window). You may need to give the full pathname. So if I remember correctly, MacPorts puts things in /opt/local/bin, so that would be /opt/local/bin/pan. There are ways to start things up from a menu in the X11 app but I can't remember how to do that at the moment. Maybe this weekend... It's also possible to start it up from the standard MacOS "terminal" shell window, but then you have to set DISPLAY yourself, IIRC. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Re: Pan not emailing me
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Beartooth wrote: > ... -- or else maybe find > the xterm config file, if that's feasible. The traditional way to configure the classical X clients (the ones included in the X11 distribution), such as xterm, is to use resources. I did this experiment: First I used xlsfonts to find a big-sounding X font, and came up with one called 9x21bas (the specific ones available depend on your X server setup). You can use xfontsel to see what various X fonts look like. I tested it using: xterm -font 9x21bas. To make xterm come up that way by default, I added this to my ~/.Xdefaults: *xterm*font: 9x21bas Then run the command (while in your home directory): xrdb -merge .Xdefaults Now using the command xterm (no arguments) brings it up with the big font. You can change lots of other things with other resources (background color, scrollbar, etc.). Linux comes with lots of "terminal" programs, such as gnome-terminal, that all have their own configuration schemes, so you might want to first decide which terminal program to run Alpine in. xterm is just one of many possibilities. Some have menus for fonts. Actually, even xterm does (ctl-right mouse). -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Re: Pan not emailing me
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 2:19 PM, Beartooth wrote: > On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:04:22 -0500, David Shochat wrote: > > ... xlsfonts|most gave me > a humongous list full of details I have no inkling of. xlsfonts|grep > 9x21bas found nothing; and I didn't see how to use xfontsel. It has a man page that explains how to use it. I would never have guessed how it worked without reading the man page (it's got a (ahem) "interesting" user interface). You click on parts of the name and menus appear. But this is really old stuff (X fonts). The newer terms use more modern font technology. > > But, persevering, I did discover that xterm -font lucidasans- > bold-18 gave me something legible. But I couldn't find a .Xdefaults file; > it wasn't in /home/btth, nor in /etc/X11 ... Where should I be looking?? > Nowhere. Just create it! In your home directory. The file doesn't exist until you have something you want to use it for. > I normally do everything CLI in a gnome-terminal with several > tabs, including one for Alpine on my own machine and another for the > remote Alpine where I do most of my email. There was a reason to use > something else for Pan when I first got into this, but I disremember at > the moment what it was. Well, there are other ones you could try. > >> xterm is just one of many possibilities. Some have menus for >> fonts. Actually, even xterm does (ctl-right mouse). > > *That* detail, which I'd never've found, was a big help! What? You haven't read all 1638 lines of the xterm man page? The relevant part here starts on line 1100 (in the version that is here). Seriously, someone probably showed me this too long ago for me to remember. Or maybe I was just feeling experimental. xterm goes WAY back, so you could call it strange by modern standards. That's why I'm thinking you'd be happier with one of the newer terms. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Re: Pan not emailing me
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 17:11:11 +, Beartooth wrote: > > You will laugh. I haven't had occasion to create an empty file in > donkey's years. So, after much thought, I tried "touch" -- and tried to > check. It's there, of course, but somehow I missed it. So I've just > spent the past hour with the most basic books I have, all the way back > to RH6 for Dummies, trying to find it. touch is the way I would have created an empty file, but there's no need to. With most text editors, you just give the same command to create the file that you would to edit it if it were already there. For example, assuming .Xdefaults does not already exist: gedit .Xdefaults & Type what you want, and the first time you do File->Save, the file will be created with the contents you've given so far. Or, if you brought the editor up some other way, just use File->Save As... >> ... That's why I'm >> thinking you'd be happier with one of the newer terms. -- David > > I've been meaning to try a bunch; I even have an icon on a panel > on one of these machines that gives me a list of them ... You know how > that goes. Clue, please? Ok, I'll give you one suggestion. The one I'm using, is called simply "Terminal", but it looks like the executable name is xfce4-terminal. It has a menu bar like a modern app and you can set things like color and font preferences using Edit->Preferences. I'm running XFCE desktop, but I don't see why you'd have to. It looks like in Ubuntu, the package name is simply xfce4-terminal. Here is the package description: -- Xfce terminal emulator This package contains Terminal, which is a lightweight and easy to use terminal emulator for X11. It was created to fit nicely into the Xfce desktop environment, but it also fits nice with other environments. For people that already know GNOME 2 terminal and are searching for a lighter but comparable replacement, Terminal might be the answer. -- -- David (making another attempt to post via the gmane NG) ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Re: Pan not emailing me
On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:31:45 +, Beartooth wrote: > On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:36:03 +0300, Роман Донченко wrote: > [...] >> The Fedora package for it is called simply "Terminal". > > Aha! I didn't have, per rpm -q; yum got it; and it runs all right. > > Since I can't use Gnome Preferences till that's fixed; I went > into Pan's, set that to Custom, which still showed my xterm setting, > changed "xterm" to "Terminal" with everything else the same. So what I > now have is > > Terminal -e alpine -url %s -- which doesn't work; it fails when I hit > send. > > Taking that "-e" out didn't fix it. > > What do I need to do? You have to figure out the name of the executable. It is probably /not/ "Terminal"; that's the package name, although I admit that in my Ubuntu situation, the package name and the executable name happened to be the same. But in general, they are not the same. We need the rpm command that lists the files in the package named Terminal. Ok, try: rpm -ql Terminal You should get a list of files. What we're looking for will be in /usr/ bin, e.g. /usr/bin/terminal or some name that almost certainly will contain the word "terminal". Probably all lower case. Another way to figure it out is to run it from menus and then do: ps aux | grep -i terminal | grep -v grep while it's running. That should show you the command that launched it. Once you think you know what the name is, try just typing that name at a shell prompt (i.e., in the terminal, xterm, or whatever). If you have the right name, a new "terminal" will come up. Once you succeed with that, you'll know what to replace "xterm" with in your pan settings. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Re: Pan not emailing me
On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:01:56 -0500, Rinaldi J. Montessi wrote: > David Shochat wrote: >> You have to figure out the name of the executable. It is probably /not/ >> "Terminal"; that's the package name, although I admit that in my Ubuntu >> situation, the package name and the executable name happened to be the >> same. But in general, they are not the same. > > ls -l `which terminal` > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8 2008-11-28 18:30 /usr/bin/terminal -> Terminal* > > terminal --help | grep -i execute > -x, --execute Execute the remainder of the > command -e, --command=STRINGExecute the argument to > this option Ok, thanks; my guess was clearly wrong, and Terminal should have worked. I actually installed alpine myself last night to try to get it to work, but so far I have not succeeded. And I have a basic question: How is the new message supposed to get the subject and body of the post? I can only see how it would get the recipient from the url argument. I think Duncan has explained the interface in the past. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] alpine test
This is a test of mailing through alpine. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Re: Pan not emailing me
On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 15:56:29 +, Beartooth wrote: > On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 19:40:18 -0600, Gerald L wrote: > >> According to the others "Terminal" or "terminal" is probably the >> right >> command -- but since alpine includes arguments you'll probably need to >> quote it. >> >> Terminal -e 'alpine -url %s' >> >> or, if %s is pre-expanded by Pan >> >> Terminal -e 'alpine -url ' %s >> (note the space between -url and the final ') > > I tried pasting each of those into the proper space; neither one > did the trick. Got it. The key was what Duncan said, prompting me to look up the mailto protocol. As a first test, I set my pan Mail Reader Custom Command to: xmessage %s That was to see what exactly would be passed by pan. The most intriguing thing was that it included a literal %s followed by the mailto: URL, including subject and body. Therefore, we do NOT want the %s in there at all. Then, experimenting with xfce4-terminal (same as your Terminal) with -e alpine, etc. I found that it had to have single quotes around the argument to the -e, just as Gerald L had said. Trouble is, you can't do that since pan is going to put the mailto: URL AFTER whatever command you specify in the preferences. So, again taking a tip from Duncan, I wrote the following little Perl glue program and called it alpine_helper.pl. Here it is: #!/usr/bin/perl -w use strict; my $url_from_pan = $ARGV[0]; my $command = "xfce4-terminal -e 'alpine -url " . $url_from_pan . "'"; system($command); You will use Terminal instead of xfce4-terminal. Save this file and make it executable (chmod 755 alpine_helper.pl). The whole point of this little program is to sneak the "alpine -url ", plus the URL passed by pan, inside the required pair of single quotes which have to surround the argument of the "-e" when you use Terminal (or xfce4-terminal in my case). I put this program in my bin directory in my home directory, i.e., /home/ david/bin. So in my pan preferences for the Mail Reader Custom Command, I just put: /home/david/bin/alpine_helper.pl That does the trick. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Re: Pan not emailing me
On Thu, 05 Mar 2009 15:17:17 +, Beartooth wrote: > I've now made the changes to .bash_profile as well as setting up > the file in it and the path to it, and tried again to use Terminal from > Pan, still with no joy. > Ok, try running the script at the command line with a minimal mailto: alpine_helper.pl mailto:a...@b If the script is working properly, a new Terminal window will come up, with an alpine composition started, pre-addressed to a...@b. Tell us what happens. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Re: Pan not emailing me
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Beartooth wrote: > On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 11:26:37 +0000, David Shochat wrote: > >> Ok, try running the script at the command line with a minimal mailto: >> alpine_helper.pl mailto:a...@b >> If the script is working properly, a new Terminal window will come up, >> with an alpine composition started, pre-addressed to a...@b. Tell us what >> happens. > > [b...@hbsk2 ~]$ alpine_helper.pl > Use of uninitialized value $url_from_pan in concatenation (.) or string > at /home/btth/bin/alpine_helper.pl line 4. > [b...@hbsk2 ~]$ > You omitted the argument (mailto:a...@b) on the command line. Do it exactly as follows: alpine_helper.pl mailto:a...@b I should have added an error-check for this case but I was trying to keep the script minimal. Remember that when pan calls the script, it will always add a (long) mailto: as an argument. Since the script is intended only to be used as a mailer for pan, it has no need to handle the case of no argument. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Oooppsss Re: Pan not emailing me
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Beartooth wrote: > > So I put it back. And that's what I used *with* the mailto, and > got the expected behavior. It did send it from swva.net to my other > address, too, btw. > Excellent. > But Pan still doesn't. Ok, what exactly do you have currently in your pan preferences For Mail Reader Custom Command? ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Re: Oooppsss Re: Pan not emailing me
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Beartooth wrote: > On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:47:20 -0500, David Shochat wrote: > >>> But Pan still doesn't. > >> Ok, what exactly do you have currently in your pan preferences For Mail >> Reader Custom Command? > > Terminal -e 'alpine -url ' > > Do I need to put the helper in there somehow?? Yes, it must consist ENTIRELY of the helper: (path)/alpine_helper.pl where (path) is wherever the script is located. For example, if you have the script in /home/btth/bin, use: /home/btth/bin/alpine_helper.pl Once you get it working like that you can try removing the path if you think you have it located in a place that is now on your search path. Notice that there must be NO arguments to alpine_helper.pl (pan will add that itself). -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Re: Permissions Re: Aaarrrgghhh! Whahoppena Terminal??
On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 15:32:46 +, Beartooth wrote: > However, trying to do a make install on build_GarminDev, which > contains qlandkarte, I got an error : > > CMake Error at src/cmake_install.cmake:36 (FILE): > file Problem setting permissions on file > "/usr/include/garmin/IDevice.h" > > Fwiw, I did a chown -R on that, and make install ran. > Normally, the make install step should be done as root when the prefix is /usr, as it apparently was in your case. On Ubuntu, the recommended way of doing that is (as a member of the admin group) saying: sudo make install which causes the processing to be done as root. Everything under /usr (and therefore everything under /usr/include) is normally owned by root and writable only by root. This helps protect your system during normal, non-administrative operations (which should always be done as an ordinary user). -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Re: Problems unraring archives downloaded with PAN.
On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:35:18 +, apebrigade wrote: > Hi. I am hoping this is the correct place to raise this problem! > > I use PAN to connect to Giganews and use .NZB files to locate the files. > PAN seems to be working correctly and downloading all of rar files > correctly. My problem comes when I try to unrar the archive as it is > split into many files. > > I have tried: > > unrar x /filename / > rar e '*.rar' ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Re: Problems unraring archives downloaded with PAN.
On Mar 18, 2009, at 8:11 PM, David Shochat wrote: On Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:35:18 +, apebrigade wrote: Hi. I am hoping this is the correct place to raise this problem! I use PAN to connect to Giganews and use .NZB files to locate the files. PAN seems to be working correctly and downloading all of rar files correctly. My problem comes when I try to unrar the archive as it is split into many files. I have tried: unrar x /filename / rar e '*.rar' Suggest using par first to verify the files you have downloaded. Am betting they are .par2 error correcting *and* then rar split. If you have par2cmdline installed something like this works (in C shell): alias par nice +20 par2 r \*.PAR2 \*.par2 \*.PAR \*.par \| \& tee output And then to reassemble with rar in a directory specified on the command line: alias urar mkdir \!^ \&\& nice +20 unrar x \*.RAR \*.rar "\*" \!^ So in short once the above aliases are defined simply type "par" in the directory where the files are downloaded. After everything is checked and/or repaired then "urar /path/to/dest" where dest doesn't yet exist. It will be created and the only thing in dest will be the file(s) and possibly directories from the rar archive. You could take the "nice +20" out of each. Nice only attempts to "be nice" and lower the process priority so other things can run. The unrar utility above has a sucky DOS-based command line parser. You have to escape the * wildcard filename to tell it what to extract. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dke...@hiwaay.net Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Re: Problems unraring archives downloaded with PAN.
On Mar 18, 2009, at 9:01 PM, Travis wrote: Why not just double click one of the par2 files and let the magic happen. Because the OP was typing command line. Because while this is a Pan list and its safe to assume one has X installed and running it is not safe to assume anything else about which and what bloat of various Linux distributions has been installed. And its especially not safe to assume Linux. Linux-free since 1995! (since 0.99pl13) -- David Kelly N4HHE, dke...@hiwaay.net Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Re: Problems unraring archives downloaded with PAN.
On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 08:42:52PM -0700, Travis wrote: > > His command line didn't work. No kidding? Perhaps that is why the OP posted? As I explained earlier the unrar command line has an unusual uncommon syntax. > Double clicking always works for me. Not helping by not providing *any* detail as to why it works. As to what hooks were installed, what optional packages, or even what desktop you are running? I have the latest KDE installed, but I find its GUI file navigation too clumsy and use command line in a terminal window. OTOH I'm happy with Finder in MacOS X. Yet I still supplement with Terminal.app on Mac. You know that one can mount a .iso file by double-clicking in MacOS X? Clearly the solution to mounting .iso files is for everyone to run MacOS X. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dke...@hiwaay.net Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Re: Pan brings PC to a standstill
On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 13:08:02 +1100, The GUIGuy wrote: > I'd been using Pan for about a year, but it has progressively become > more and more unusable. > > Now if I get it to download the latest headers from a group and if there > are more than 500 or so headers, Pan starts thrashing the hard disk, > locking up resources and generally making the PC unusable. > > As an experiment I let it run and it was still doing its stuff about > three hours later. > > Is this a known issue or am I on my lonesome here? > It might be. I have a somewhat similar problem, but only when I'm running the GNOME desktop. If you can try running either XFCE or KDE, or anything else that's not GNOME, see if that makes the problem go away (as it does for me). If that doesn't help, it is probably not the same thing. You said "locking up resources". In my case, top shows pan using a high percentage of the CPU and sometimes a lot of memory, and in bad cases, it has gone on for hours. I'm running Ubuntu 8.10, by the way. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Re: Pan brings PC to a standstill
On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 07:31:56 -0400, Keith Richie wrote:
> Try to compile from the unpatched source code. You shouldn't have to run
> make install, but you can run the Pan binary from the compiled
> directory.
>
> Gnome uses a file monitoring daemon for Nautilus (Fam, Gamin,
> something). Try disabling that, and/or beagle if it's running.
This is very interesting. I always run a version of pan which I compiled
from unpatched source. But I was running GNOME when I ran configure
(should I examine the configure log?) To follow up on your second idea, I
did a
ps -ef | awk '{print $8}' > processes.gnome
while running GNOME desktop, and then the same thing but redirecting to
processes.xfce while running XFCE desktop. Then I differenced the two
files and removed some things like applets which I really don't think
could be responsible. Here's what is left (these are interesting
processes which are only there when running the GNOME desktop):
< /usr/bin/dbus-launch
< /usr/bin/pulseaudio
< /usr/lib/pulseaudio/pulse/gconf-helper
< /usr/bin/seahorse-agent
< /usr/lib/gnome-session/helpers/gnome-keyring-daemon-wrapper
< /usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon/gnome-settings-daemon
< /usr/lib/at-spi/at-spi-registryd
< /usr/lib/bonobo-activation/bonobo-activation-server
< /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfs-hal-volume-monitor
< /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfsd-trash
< /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfs-gphoto2-volume-monitor
< /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfsd-burn
< gnome-power-manager
So, any ideas as to which of those might be responsible? Notice there is
nothing in the list named fam, gamin, or beagle.
-- David
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[Pan-users] Re: Pan brings PC to a standstill
On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:27:24 -0700, walt wrote: > Well, two points. > [snip] > Second, at-spi-registryd. Unless you know you need it (and if you do > need it you already know it) use the Assistive Technologies Preferences > applet to disable it. BINGO!!! I believe you (and Keith who got me thinking about daemons) have finally solved this longstanding problem. Actually, I had not found the preference so I removed the at-spi package altogether. Now that I have found the preference, I may try reinstalling the package but disabling the feature, which is what you were suggesting. I wanted to make sure there was no way that daemon would run. So now we have a new question: What exactly does the "assistive technologies" daemon do, and why does is it so poisonous to pan? I guess that was 2 questions. I know that the reason I had this was so that I could run GOK (GNOME On-screen Keyboard) which I was only using so I could see foreign keyboard layouts, which can now be done in other ways. When I removed at-spi, it forced removal of GOK. Maybe when this is on, the event loop has to check constantly to see whether one of the virtual keys has been pressed and if so, generate a keypress event. Anyway, I really think there's hope now that someone will come up with a full explanation. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Re: giganews trouble
On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:06:46 +, Beartooth wrote: > I signed up for an individual giganews account, and immediately went to > full activation, forgoing the "free trial"; but I get two error messages > from Pan when I try to post -- first one saying > > Warning: The posting profile's server doesn't carry newsgroup > "alt.appalachian". It looks to me like giganews DOES carry that group. Are you sure that the posting profile you have associated with alt.appalachian names news.giganews.com for "post articles via"? -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Re: Subscribed newsgroups disappearing
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 09:51:38 -0500, Gerald L wrote: > John Aldrich wrote: >> I've got Pan 0.133 running on Fedora 10. For some reason, whenever I >> close Pan and bring it back up again, it loses all the groups it was >> subscribed to. It also does not show the list of "other groups" until I >> select "refresh groups list." >> >> Any idea what's going on here? I have been using Pan for years and >> never had this problem before >> >> thanks > > Sounds like a permissions issue preventing Pan from writing to the > .newsrc file. > > G ...or worse, such as a problem accessing your ~/.pan2 directory itself. I think I saw the same thing once in a situation where my ~/.pan2 was a symlink to a directory on a remote filesystem that either was not really there or had the wrong ownership. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Re: posting server according to the group one?
On Mon, 25 May 2009 07:37:40 +, Matej Cepl wrote: > This feels very very weird ... I have just tried to make a followup to > message from news.grc.com and pan complained that it doesn't want to > post to that newsgroup via news.gmane.org. WTF? > > Doesn't pan know where it get the newsgroup from? What's so complicated > to expect that the followup would go to the same news server? > I also have found this very non-obvious, but what you have to do is to designate a "posting profile" to each group you want to post to. Right mouse on news.grc.com in the group list and select "Edit Selected Group's Preferences". That brings up a dialog where you can choose a posting profile from a pulldown. If there is no suitable posting profile on the list, you can add a new one using Edit->Edit Posting Profiles. When you set up the posting profile, you establish the server you want to use to post, and also what E-mail address, signature, and a few other items you want to use in those posts. I think the designer (Charles) would say that a given group /could have/ come from more than one server, so it wants you to specify which one to use. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] So, what's left before 1.0?
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 02:47:16PM -0500, Charles Kerr wrote: > > Other than the GMime update to fix multipart messages -- which is > already in K Haley's repo -- are there any honest-to-God showstoppers > left? Not feature requests, tweaks, or whatnot, but things that would > actually prevent Pan 1.0 from finally, finally coming out...? I want a "DWIM" button for "Do What I Meant (not what I said)". :-) -- David Kelly N4HHE, dke...@hiwaay.net Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Re: Pan and SSL without Stunnel?
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 07:15:53 -0700, walt wrote: > On 10/25/2009 06:28 AM, Timothy J. Hamilton wrote: >> How can Pan be setup to use SSL to connect to a secure server without >> Stunnel? [snip] > > I've never done it, but I know ssh can do port forwarding. The man page > gives an example of how to do it. But SSH does not know anything about SSL. SSH with port forwarding involves tunneling some other protocol in an SSH connection (no SSL involved). From what I see from the Stunnel web site (I have no experience with it), it does involve SSL. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Re: Many Binaries Cannot Be Shown In Pan
On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 23:18:50 +, Zing wrote: > On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 17:58:37 -0500, Scott Pettigrew wrote: > >> I feel completely stupid asking this - but I've searched a bit to no >> avail - >> >> How does one compile the version in the git repository mentioned >> earlier? > > In brief: > > $ git clone -b integration git://github.com/lostcoder/pan2 $ cd pan2 What is the significance of "-b integration"? I did it without that, based on a post from July that I found in the archives. It built ok, but it sounds like I now may have the wrong version. Do I need to start over? I'm sure there must be some git command that will switch me to that branch, but I'm totally new to git (this is the first time I have ever used it), so it will require some study. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Re: Multipart Binaries Bug - When Will It Be Fixed?
On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:59:36 +, Graham Todd wrote: > On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:33:44 -0800 > walt uttered these > words: > [snip] >> Can you give us a pointer to an example of a broken post, so we can try >> it with the latest pan? >> >> > Thanks a lot, Walt. > > Attached is a screenshot from alt.binaries.pictures.wallpapers so you > can try it. > > I'm copying this to the pan-users list too. I went to abpw and found the post in question. It displayed very nicely in my build of pan (from K. Haley's git repository). -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] So sorry to ask, but is there a recent version of Pan for Mac OS X?!?
Hi, I'm moving back from Windows to a Mac platform; yes, I can run a VM, but I would prefer to run Pan natively. I SO like the simplicity, and utility, of Pan's interface. All that I am finding is a dated version on Fink, nor the latest so-called "beta" I have used for Windows. Many TIA, LCD Oh - if there is a way for me to compile recent source, I would hugely appreciate detailed instructions; I can then upload the binary for others to download. Again, thanks. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Problem installing Pan
Be kind to me, I'm new here. I'm trying to install Pan but the package manager seems to get hung up with the message "Waiting for apt-get to exit". Nothing else happens. What's up with that and ho do I get past it? ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Problem installing Pan
On 12/13/2010 02:12 PM, David Hatunen wrote: Be kind to me, I'm new here. I'm trying to install Pan but the package manager seems to get hung up with the message "Waiting for apt-get to exit". Nothing else happens. What's up with that and ho do I get past it? Oh. It finally installed. Never mind ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Re: New version of pan ?
On Sun, 16 Jan 2011 16:58:03 +, Duncan wrote: >... despite "eternal September" (which seems to > have ended, ... It's still working for me, at least for reading. I did have to re-sign up for it yesterday, but that may just be because I hadn't accessed it in a while. Once I put in my new password for it in pan, I was able to read alt.coffee; before that it had said that I had "invalid credentials". -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Re: New version of pan ?
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 08:07:42 +, Duncan wrote: > > You had me /very/ confused for a bit... until I remembered that there's > actually a server called "Eternal September"! =:^0 > > Meanwhile, I believe you'll find /my/ post makes more sense if you read > the "eternal September" bit as the original metaphorical reference that > the server in question is named after. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_september > Thanks for the education. I had never heard that term before (although I was using the Internet before there was any WWW). I remember when only the elite had Usenet access (not to mention real Internet E-mail addresses) and I could only dream. And when I did finally start using Usenet, every time I went to post something, a big warning came up pointing out the tremendous bandwidth impact of what I was about to do. And this was text! I sometimes think of that as I watch my streaming Netflix movie. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Searching for newsgroups
I give up. How do I search through the big list of newsgroups for something specific? "energy", say? ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Searching for newsgroups
On 01/22/2011 03:12 PM, John Lindsay wrote: David Hatunen wrote: I give up. How do I search through the big list of newsgroups for something specific? "energy", say? Under the top bar (file -- edit -- view etc) I have another 'bar with icons rather than text. I have two blank area -- the first one has 'Group name' and the second one has 'subject or author'. I put energy in the first box and got some 40+ groups that had energy somewhere in the group name.Hopefully that helps you. John Doh! So that's what that Group name" box is for. Sure could use a manual Thanx... ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Re: ANN: Pan 0.134 "Wait for Me"
On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 19:18:37 +0100, Petr Kovar wrote: > February 15, 2011 - New Release: > 0.134 "Wait for Me" > http://pan.rebelbase.com/download/ This built without fuss on MacOS X (10.6.6, dependencies provided via MacPorts). This was the first time I was able to build on the Mac without having to make any code changes. And of course it also built happily on Ubuntu 10.10 (32 bit). -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Re: ANN: Pan 0.134 "Wait for Me"
On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 18:10:17 +, Maurice Batey wrote: > Is there a ready-built downloadable version for Snow Leopard? > (Got a Mac friend who woud like to use Pan, but is not into building > from basics. Having to use Thunderbird...) My pan executable depends on 28 dylibs in /opt/local/lib, which would have been put there by MacPorts. So I suggest that your friend: 1. Get MacPorts if s/he doesn't have it. 2. Get the version of pan 0.133 that is available as a "port" (I suppose this will ultimately get you 0.134): sudo port install pan2 3. Then it should be possible to run the executable I have (put it in /usr/local/bin), which I suppose could be uploaded by me or someone else. Or your friend may be happy with the current port version which should before long be upgradeable to 0.134 anyway: sudo port upgrade pan2 All this can probably be done using fink instead of MacPorts. You have to have the X server that comes with MacOS X (X11 app) installed, to run pan. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
[Pan-users] Re: ANN: Pan 0.134 "Wait for Me"
On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 05:50:58 -0500, John Aldrich wrote: > On Thu February 24 2011, Duncan wrote: >> >> Many binary distributions package the developer bits of a package >> separately, since users not compiling anything on their own won't need >> them. Do you have a gmime-dev or similar package available to install, >> that's not installed? If so, that should contain the gmime.pc file. >> > Already installed. :-( For a specific example, I have Ubuntu 10.10. On my system, gmime-2.0.pc and gmime-2.4.pc are both in /usr/lib/pkgconfig. gmime-2.0.pc comes from package libgmime-2.0-2-dev and gmime-2.4.pc comes from libgmime-2.4-dev, consistent with what Duncan said. Also, I checked my pan (0.134) executable and it uses libgmime-2.4.so.2, so even though I apparently have both 2.0 and 2.4, the build of pan went for the 2.4. I also built pan on a Mac and that one is using libgmime-2.4.2.dylib. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Re: ANN: Pan 0.134 "Wait for Me"
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 11:18 PM, mattman^ wrote: > Hi David, > > Would it be possible to post the .dmg of this or is it specific to > your mac since it was built on it? Would love to put Pan on my > macbook. > See my previous follow-up: http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/pan-users/2011-02/msg00016.html pan for the Mac is /not/ a normal Mac app. It is more like a typical *nix X-client. It depends on numerous other libraries. My easy way of getting all those on my system was: 1. Install the MacPorts version of pan (sudo port install pan2). This has the side effect of bringing in all those dependencies. 2. Build the latest pan from source in the same way as on Linux (configure, make, sudo make install). So first, install Xcode (to get gcc etc.), X-11 (these 2 come with MacOSX) and MacPorts (http://www.macports.org/). I haven't checked lately -- MacPorts may have 0.134 by now, in which case you can dispense with step 2. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] compile error on Natty Ubuntu
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 14:51:02 +, Duncan wrote: > If you've not done so already, please try clearing the build dir and > rebuilding. I just built it on my (32 bit) Natty with no issues (I'm using the resulting pan 0.135 to post this). I just did the usual configure/make/ sudo make install (no make-check). -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] GNKSA
On Jul 4, 2011, at 3:52 PM, Duncan wrote: > Joe Zeff posted on Mon, 04 Jul 2011 13:43:13 -0700 as excerpted: > >> I've just received a response to my email about updating the GNKSA. In >> part, it says: > > I'll have to think about the response some and digest it, before updating > my opinion accordingly, but I'm glad you made this a new thread. I can > say that right now. =:^) I think the original statement of "limit of 4 sessions so as to be a good neighbor" stands whether GNSKA or not. ISPs are dropping news services from their basic accounts charging extra or not offering news at all. If news clients all start being pigs in sucking bandwidth then more will drop and the only options will be paid news servers who will charge for the extra resource consumption. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dke...@hiwaay.net Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Articles Pan Can't Read
On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 4:34 AM, Mark S Bilk wrote: > > I hope someone with Usenet access can try to read those articles > with Pan. Just go to alt.test and enter mb in the > right-hand search box. They're easy to find. > I see the bodies of all of them, using 0.135 (Mac Snow Leopard/MacPorts). -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Articles Pan Can't Read
On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 7:03 AM, Mark S Bilk wrote: > I guess what's needed now are Pan 0.135 trials in a couple of > different Linux distros, including OpenSuse. I'm going to ask > in a couple of places, but if anyone on the list here can do it, > it would be great. > No problem reading all 5 using 0.135 on Ubuntu 11.04. Can you try a different server? -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Newbie question about unviewable posts
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Graham Lawrence wrote: > > google gives no access to the Subject line when Replying, Use the "Edit Subject" link just to the right of "Add Cc" and "Add Bcc". ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] OS X install instructions
On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Ben Friedman wrote: > Use Macports and sudo pan Macports can install Pan after you configure Mac > Ports > As a side effect of doing that, you get all the dependencies (including header files and static libraries) needed to build from a tarball, since MacPorts is a source-based system. So at that point, you can build the same way as on Linux (configure; make; sudo make install). There was a time when some small tweaks were needed to an include file to get it to build successfully, but the last time I did it, no such changes were necessary. If you use default configure options, the prefix will be /usr/local, so the executable will end up in /usr/local/bin, whereas the one from MacPorts will be in /opt/local/bin. The two do not interfere with each other so you can run whichever one you want. But the current MacPorts version is 0.135. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Ubuntu 11.10 version of Pan repeating images
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Scott Pettigrew wrote: > Has anyone else experienced a bug with the package maintainer's version of > Pan (v0.133) in the 11.10 version of Ubuntu? > I am getting repeated display of all decoded images in the message window. > This is happening across two computers, both are new installs of Ubuntu. > Thanks, and Best Regards - > Scott Pettigrew > Yes, I upgraded to 11.10 and I'm seeing that too (with pan 0.133). However, with 0.135, the problem does not occur. -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Reading an HTML posting when using 'old' Pan
On Mar 22, 2012, at 12:35 PM, Duncan wrote: > Ron Johnson posted on Thu, 22 Mar 2012 04:00:37 -0500 as excerpted: > >> While Tbird puts my cursor at the bottom of the window, more >> and more I must manually move the cursor to the top because non-geeks >> have been trained by Outlook and webmail to type at the top. > > If I'm replying, my reply goes either inline or at the bottom, period. > Sometimes I rearrange or omit quotes to do it, but "if it's worth > replying, it's worth replying right." Words belong in the order spoken where one leads into the next, then into the next for a train of thought. This reply becomes a scene in a play where Ron said, then Duncan said, then David said ... Top-posted replies are a nightmare to unravel. For starters one of the better rules for effective communication is to keep your readers from having to work hard to understand what you are saying and how one got there from here. The less work your reader has to perform the more brain CPU cycles are available to understand what you are saying. Outlook is a disease where properly formatted replies are almost impossible to create. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dke...@hiwaay.net Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Reading an HTML posting when using 'old' Pan
On Mar 22, 2012, at 2:53 PM, Ron Johnson wrote: > Yes, yes, yes, I *completely* agree. Which is why I'm bottom-posting. That's not really ideal either. > There are *lots* of "should be" circumstances in this world. However, the > vast unwashed masses just think we're a bunch of kooks and will continue to > top-post no matter how much we lecture them, because that's how Outlook and > web mail works. Yes, its easy to walk on water when the lake is only 1/2" deep. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dke...@hiwaay.net Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Reading an HTML posting when using 'old' Pan
On Mar 22, 2012, at 10:06 PM, thufir wrote: > On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:08:27 -0500, David Kelly wrote: > >> Outlook is a disease where properly formatted replies are almost >> impossible to create. > > I start to see evil MS conspiracies, except that I cannot fathom what the > payoff is for MS to turn everyone into top posters. Don't strain yourself searching for conspiracies when "stupid" is a much simpler explanation. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dke...@hiwaay.net Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Reading an HTML posting when using 'old' Pan
On Mar 23, 2012, at 6:47 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > The fact is that most of the time people don't even notice that, after the > first paragraph or so of fresh text, is an ever-growing five or ten or twenty > pages of copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of every damn email > in the conversation. They don't notice because they don't look. Ditto. If the (re-)sender didn't bother to read it before sending, then its garbage. Just for fun sometime top post yourself but go change the buried quoted text to something like, "Everyone who blindly resends this text agrees to pay David $20." Then point it out after it has been resent a dozen times. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dke...@hiwaay.net Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Reading an HTML posting when using 'old' Pan
On Mar 23, 2012, at 11:46 AM, Rui Maciel wrote: >> does not change the fact that the >> *vast* majority of people (especially in offices) use Outlook, and >> top-post and get by just fine. > > Outlook does not enforce top-posting. The cursor in the text edit box may be > placed by default at the start of the text, but that doesn't force anyone to > mindlessly start to write from there. Outlook users are still free and quite > able to format their message as they see fit. Outlook does, and it doesn't. There are many versions of Outlook and this is one thing that differs between the free version bundled with Windows and the paid version that bundles with Office. No version allows trimming and inserted commentary the way real email clients permit (such as Apple's Mail.app, which gets threading badly wrong, IMHO the one thing Outlook gets right). Sometimes in Outlook all one can do is cut the prior text out en mass. Fix it properly in an external editor. Then paste back in. The paid version can use Word as one's default editor where one can brute force edit a proper reply, but you fight it the whole way. Outlook wants desperately to post in RTF/HTML, which only compounds the difficulty of effectively editing comments in the middle of reply quotes. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dke...@hiwaay.net Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] Reading an HTML posting when using 'old' Pan
On Mar 23, 2012, at 12:34 PM, Joe Zeff wrote: > On 03/23/2012 04:47 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> I have written to companies many times, and not once have they >> photocopied my letter and stapled it to the back of their answer (the >> equivalent of top-posting). And I would certainly never expect to >> receive a copy of the *entire* file attached to the back of their answer >> as a matter of course. > > Because doing that would cost money for postage. Yes, but ineffective communication costs even more. If forwarding a copy of all past correspondences with each new correspondence helped more than it hurt then business would not blink at the cost in postage or dead trees. The fact it is not necessary or beneficial in postal correspondence only goes to support the claim that it is also not necessary in email correspondence. > Email doesn't cost money, so the custom has grown to quote from what you're > replying to give context. Remember, I'm not trying to justify excessive > quoting. I'm only explaining why some people find top posting reasonable. Think most here will agree there are rare exceptions where top-post-no-trim is acceptable. The problem is that it is typically used out of laziness and belief that Microsoft would not steer one wrong. Lazy top-posters refuse to consider they could type less and communicate better if only they would insert comments immediately after that which prompted them to have something to say. Let the other person say it their way without having to paraphrase it so the reader knows where you are jumping in. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dke...@hiwaay.net Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
Re: [Pan-users] ssl problems, not working on ports 443 or 563
On Sun, 01 Apr 2012 22:49:03 +, bob wrote: > I ran `autogen.sh --with-gnutls' still no cigar. I get a pagefull of > gnutls entries in synaptic, which one should I install and how should I > set things up to compile with it. > I chose libgnutls-dev, however it wasn't the right version. You should check your config.log. Here is what I found in mine: configure:7817: checking for GNUTLS configure:7824: $PKG_CONFIG --exists --print-errors "gnutls >= $GNUTLS_REQUIRED" Requested 'gnutls >= 2.12.10' but version of GnuTLS is 2.10.5 You may find new versions of GnuTLS at http://www.gnu.org/software/gnutls/ This is with the latest Ubuntu. So one way to solve the problem is to build libgnutls yourself, but I have not (yet) attempted that. Maybe Ubuntu 12.04 LTS will have a newer libgnutls. > Sorry, but the first time I tried compiling anything was with IBM-360 > Cobol and a few years later a program in C-Basic Compiler on an 8085. > For me, also IBM 360, but PL/1. Learned it in a class called Computational Linguistics. > My first "home" computer was an IBEX 2.5Mhz 8080 w/ 64K ram, But it did > have 2 8"DSDD drives and a 10 Meg 8" HDD. > Mine was a Z-80 with only 1 8" floppy drive and no HD. But it did have a full 64K (at the time I had no idea how I would ever really need that much RAM). -- David ___ Pan-users mailing list Pan-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pan-users
