Re: [opensource-dev] Review Request: STORM-1320 Create a 3p-libndofdev-linux repo based on version 0.3 of Jan Ciger's linux libndofdev.

[Log Linden]

> On June 16, 2011, 4:59 p.m., Boroondas Gupte wrote:
> > libndofdev/CMakeLists.txt, lines 27-30
> > 
> >
> > Might be worth mentioning the non-linux libndofdev (and where to find 
> > it) in the error message.
> 
> Jonathan Yap wrote:
> On windows I already get 4 lines such as: 
> package pcre has no installation information configured for platform 
> windows
> which is plenty of information for a package I have no need of; let's not 
> put too much unnecessary text on the screen.

Those messages are only be displayed during build configuration, and only if 
you try to build the package on windows or mac.  They are there to alleviate 
confusion because we have two libndofdev packages, depending on the platform. 
Telling where to find the other library seems like a good idea.


> On June 16, 2011, 4:59 p.m., Boroondas Gupte wrote:
> > autobuild.xml, line 40
> > 
> >
> > I guess it's not a problem that the paths in the package will collide 
> > with the paths of the non-linux libndofdev package, or is it?
> > 
> > (If they were built from the same source, they'd collide too, wouldn't 
> > they?)

The .a file in /lib has to collide anyway to work right.  Autobuild install 
shouldn't install more than one of the packages.


> On June 16, 2011, 4:59 p.m., Boroondas Gupte wrote:
> > libndofdev/CMakeLists.txt, line 1
> > 
> >
> > Jan Ciger's libndofdev comes with a Makefile. Why not use that?
> > 
> > This lib is linux-specific, so we don't need a cross-platform build 
> > configuration for it.

I would have needed to modify Jan's makefile to fit the autobuild package 
layout. I also used cmake because the other libndofdev library build also uses 
it.


> On June 16, 2011, 4:59 p.m., Boroondas Gupte wrote:
> > libndofdev/CMakeLists.txt, line 16
> > 
> >
> > If these flags are added unconditionally, how would one do a 64-bit 
> > build? Maybe check for WORD_SIZE, like the viewer build does.

I see m32 hard coded in several other libraries, including 3p-google-mock


- Log


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On June 16, 2011, 1:32 p.m., Log Linden wrote:
> 
> ---
> This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
> http://codereview.secondlife.com/r/340/
> ---
> 
> (Updated June 16, 2011, 1:32 p.m.)
> 
> 
> Review request for Viewer, Oz Linden, Boroondas Gupte, and Altair Memo.
> 
> 
> Summary
> ---
> 
> Checked in version 0.3 of Jan Ciger's libndofdev drop-in replacement for 
> linux.
> * Added cmake build configuration.
> * Added autobuild package configuration.
> * Created libndofdev.txt license file from ndofdev.c file header.
> * Added README to explain that this is only for use in the linux viewer.
> 
> BUGFIXES:
> * OPEN-21 STORM-312 This version of libndofdev supports kernel versions >= 
> 2.6.33.
> 
> When reviewing, please provide extra scrutiny to autobuild.xml and 
> CMakeLists.txt, since those are the files I actually edited.
> 
> 
> This addresses bugs OPEN-21, STORM-1320 and STORM-312.
> http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-21
> http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1320
> http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-312
> 
> 
> Diffs
> -
> 
>   autobuild.xml PRE-CREATION 
>   libndofdev/CHANGELOG PRE-CREATION 
>   libndofdev/CMakeLists.txt PRE-CREATION 
>   libndofdev/LICENSES/libndofdev.txt PRE-CREATION 
>   libndofdev/README PRE-CREATION 
>   libndofdev/include/ndofdev_external.h PRE-CREATION 
>   libndofdev/ndofdev.c PRE-CREATION 
> 
> Diff: http://codereview.secondlife.com/r/340/diff
> 
> 
> Testing
> ---
> 
> This built successfully on TeamCity and the packaged library worked correctly 
> when I extracted it into the packages directory of the viewer build tree ( 
> build-linux-i686/packages ).  My spacenavigator, which hasn't worked in six 
> months, started working with the new build.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Log
> 
>

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[opensource-dev] DD philosophy

[Nalates Urriah]

To consider implementing automatic(DD) Draw Distance changes one probably
should consider all the possible ways this affects players, which is
probably not the easiest thing to do.

When shopping changing a DD probably would not be much of an issue, at least
for me. However, I tend to enter a store and then cam around. I also tend to
turn DD down when in a mall. Using 64m when things are a bit slow and even
down to 32m when they remain slow.

However when in a combat sim I do not want the DD to change. I set the DD
depending on what is going on. I may turn off shaders to keep a high FPS.
But, changing DD when I'm in combat would really piss me off. One is already
clicking and key banging as fast as one can. Having to fight with DD to keep
it as an acceptable distance would be extremely annoying. I would change
away from any viewer that has automatic DD that degrades my combat
experience.

When I am using Kirsten's Viewer for Photography I often use maximum DD and
graphics setting and tolerate low FPS, even 2 or 3 FPS is acceptable, for
the sake of capturing a great image. An automatic DD change would also be
extremely annoying in such a scenario. Any change to my rendering settings
would be annoying.

I'm not sure that FPS is the criteria that is most important to residents. I
like higher FPS. I think once FPS is 15 or more performance is less
important to residents and render quality becomes more important. That is
rather subjective. Before making a change like adding automatic tuning for
performance one needs to determine what people find acceptable. The blow
back from the changes made to the initial SLV2 is an example of
how irritate people.

Changing the viewer settings at install times is reasonable. I don't hear
people complaining. We can over ride those settings. Once we do, performance
is on us. Changing my choices after that just irritates me and motivates
people to use TPV's.

-- 
Nalates Urriah
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Re: [opensource-dev] Review Request: STORM-1320 Create a 3p-libndofdev-linux repo based on version 0.3 of Jan Ciger's linux libndofdev.

[Log Linden]

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(Updated June 17, 2011, 8:32 a.m.)


Review request for Viewer, Oz Linden, Boroondas Gupte, and Altair Memo.


Changes
---

I incorporated the feedback I got here into a new revision.

* Got rid of the hardcoded -m32 in CMakeLists.txt
* Also got rid of hard coded cmake build type
* Corrected the static library file location to lib/release
* Added the new /lib/release folder to the autobuild manifest and removed /lib
* Added the location of the other libndofdev library to the cmake warnings
* Added a BuildParam to make the built package get uploaded to the public s3

The repo is also now up on bitbucket: 
http://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/3p-libndofdev-linux
TC Build of this revision: 
http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/3p-libndofdev-linux/rev/233137/arch/Linux/installer/libndofdev-0.3-linux-20110617.tar.bz2
hash: 9bf7a96c1d2fadb180fda91740c945c6

I'll put up the viewer changeset shortly as a separate diff.


Summary
---

Checked in version 0.3 of Jan Ciger's libndofdev drop-in replacement for linux.
* Added cmake build configuration.
* Added autobuild package configuration.
* Created libndofdev.txt license file from ndofdev.c file header.
* Added README to explain that this is only for use in the linux viewer.

BUGFIXES:
* OPEN-21 STORM-312 This version of libndofdev supports kernel versions >= 
2.6.33.

When reviewing, please provide extra scrutiny to autobuild.xml and 
CMakeLists.txt, since those are the files I actually edited.


This addresses bugs OPEN-21, STORM-1320 and STORM-312.
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-21
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1320
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-312


Diffs (updated)
-

  BuildParams PRE-CREATION 
  autobuild.xml PRE-CREATION 
  libndofdev/CHANGELOG PRE-CREATION 
  libndofdev/CMakeLists.txt PRE-CREATION 
  libndofdev/LICENSES/libndofdev.txt PRE-CREATION 
  libndofdev/README PRE-CREATION 
  libndofdev/include/ndofdev_external.h PRE-CREATION 
  libndofdev/ndofdev.c PRE-CREATION 

Diff: http://codereview.secondlife.com/r/340/diff


Testing
---

This built successfully on TeamCity and the packaged library worked correctly 
when I extracted it into the packages directory of the viewer build tree ( 
build-linux-i686/packages ).  My spacenavigator, which hasn't worked in six 
months, started working with the new build.


Thanks,

Log

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Re: [opensource-dev] Question about DD philosophy.

[Nexii Malthus]

Shouldn't 'network render' distance and graphics render distance be seperate
kinda for this purpose?

I could see graphics render distance auto-tune to FPS, but auto-tune should
never touch the network distance controller, as that otherwise could cause
havok. (As Marine explains)

- Nexii

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 9:16 PM, Jonathan Welch  wrote:

> At yesterday's meeting with Oz having a FPS auto-tune system was
> discussed.  I am going to try to write up a description of how this
> could be implemented and once it is fleshed out will post it here for
> comments.
>
> -jonathan
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Re: [opensource-dev] DD philosophy

[Ricky]

This could be solvable in a manner that I've seen in some other
programs: having the ability to state what your preference is. I've
seen games and tool have a radio button set with one entry set to
"high fps" and the other to "high detail" - or related terminology.

Food for thought.

Ricky
Cron Stardust

On Friday, June 17, 2011, Nalates Urriah  wrote:
> To consider implementing automatic(DD) Draw Distance changes one probably 
> should consider all the possible ways this affects players, which is probably 
> not the easiest thing to do.
> When shopping changing a DD probably would not be much of an issue, at least 
> for me. However, I tend to enter a store and then cam around. I also tend to 
> turn DD down when in a mall. Using 64m when things are a bit slow and even 
> down to 32m when they remain slow.
>
> However when in a combat sim I do not want the DD to change. I set the DD 
> depending on what is going on. I may turn off shaders to keep a high FPS. 
> But, changing DD when I'm in combat would really piss me off. One is already 
> clicking and key banging as fast as one can. Having to fight with DD to keep 
> it as an acceptable distance would be extremely annoying. I would change away 
> from any viewer that has automatic DD that degrades my combat experience.
>
> When I am using Kirsten's Viewer for Photography I often use maximum DD and 
> graphics setting and tolerate low FPS, even 2 or 3 FPS is acceptable, for the 
> sake of capturing a great image. An automatic DD change would also be 
> extremely annoying in such a scenario. Any change to my rendering settings 
> would be annoying.
>
> I'm not sure that FPS is the criteria that is most important to residents. I 
> like higher FPS. I think once FPS is 15 or more performance is less important 
> to residents and render quality becomes more important. That is rather 
> subjective. Before making a change like adding automatic tuning for 
> performance one needs to determine what people find acceptable. The blow back 
> from the changes made to the initial SLV2 is an example of 
> how irritate people.
>
> Changing the viewer settings at install times is reasonable. I don't hear 
> people complaining. We can over ride those settings. Once we do, performance 
> is on us. Changing my choices after that just irritates me and motivates 
> people to use TPV's.
>
> --
> Nalates Urriah
>
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] DD Philosophy

[Hitomi Tiponi]

Please no automatic DD - there are two many variables and differing 
circumstances for it ever to work.  Much better to work on other ways of 
improving fps e.g. selective updating of avatar movement.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Review Request: STORM-1320 Create a 3p-libndofdev-linux repo based on version 0.3 of Jan Ciger's linux libndofdev.

[Boroondas Gupte]

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Ship it!


My remaining comments are mere bike-shedding, thus giving "Ship it!".


libndofdev/CMakeLists.txt


Thanks for making this a bit future-proofer. :-)

ADD_DEFINITION actually adds definitions, keeping previously added ones, 
doesn't it?

So we could take the '-pipe' out of the conditional code:

if (WORD_SIZE EQUAL 32)
ADD_DEFINITIONS("-m32")
elseif (WORD_SIZE EQUAL 64)
ADD_DEFINITIONS("-m64")
endif (WORD_SIZE EQUAL 32)

ADD_DEFINITIONS("-pipe")


Dunno if that's better though ... if in doubt, keep your version.




(I also thought about replacing the whole block by

ADD_DEFINITIONS("-m${WORD_SIZE} -pipe")

but I guess an if-elseif is clearer.)



libndofdev/CMakeLists.txt


Good message texts! Though, end the second sentence with a period rather 
than arbitrary whitespace.


- Boroondas


On June 17, 2011, 8:32 a.m., Log Linden wrote:
> 
> ---
> This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
> http://codereview.secondlife.com/r/340/
> ---
> 
> (Updated June 17, 2011, 8:32 a.m.)
> 
> 
> Review request for Viewer, Oz Linden, Boroondas Gupte, and Altair Memo.
> 
> 
> Summary
> ---
> 
> Checked in version 0.3 of Jan Ciger's libndofdev drop-in replacement for 
> linux.
> * Added cmake build configuration.
> * Added autobuild package configuration.
> * Created libndofdev.txt license file from ndofdev.c file header.
> * Added README to explain that this is only for use in the linux viewer.
> 
> BUGFIXES:
> * OPEN-21 STORM-312 This version of libndofdev supports kernel versions >= 
> 2.6.33.
> 
> When reviewing, please provide extra scrutiny to autobuild.xml and 
> CMakeLists.txt, since those are the files I actually edited.
> 
> 
> This addresses bugs OPEN-21, STORM-1320 and STORM-312.
> http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-21
> http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1320
> http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-312
> 
> 
> Diffs
> -
> 
>   BuildParams PRE-CREATION 
>   autobuild.xml PRE-CREATION 
>   libndofdev/CHANGELOG PRE-CREATION 
>   libndofdev/CMakeLists.txt PRE-CREATION 
>   libndofdev/LICENSES/libndofdev.txt PRE-CREATION 
>   libndofdev/README PRE-CREATION 
>   libndofdev/include/ndofdev_external.h PRE-CREATION 
>   libndofdev/ndofdev.c PRE-CREATION 
> 
> Diff: http://codereview.secondlife.com/r/340/diff
> 
> 
> Testing
> ---
> 
> This built successfully on TeamCity and the packaged library worked correctly 
> when I extracted it into the packages directory of the viewer build tree ( 
> build-linux-i686/packages ).  My spacenavigator, which hasn't worked in six 
> months, started working with the new build.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Log
> 
>

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Re: [opensource-dev] DD philosophy

[Zha Ewry]

I second pretty much all of these thoughts. I think any implementation of an
Automatic DD would have to include
a way to say "turn this off" I tune my experience to what I'm doing. low
frame rates are completely acceptable
when I want to see something completely and am not moving. Higher ones may
be needed for combat, or exploring a large 3D model.

I'll also point out that Draw distance is only one of several controls one
can use to improve FPS, and any such control is going to be impacted by any
of those changes as well. I fiddle with particle density, draw distance, and
number of avatar imposters routinely. I've dialed down other bits of visual
candy when I cared more FPS than pretty, or so I could explicitly dial up
Draw Distance, or water reflections, or specific shaders.

I think something where you could turn off the capability, and also set a
target FPS would be very handy. Default it to something reasonable, and then
let people how have strong opinions over-ride them.

~ Zha


On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Nalates Urriah wrote:

> To consider implementing automatic(DD) Draw Distance changes one probably
> should consider all the possible ways this affects players, which is
> probably not the easiest thing to do.
>
> When shopping changing a DD probably would not be much of an issue, at
> least for me. However, I tend to enter a store and then cam around. I also
> tend to turn DD down when in a mall. Using 64m when things are a bit slow
> and even down to 32m when they remain slow.
>
> However when in a combat sim I do not want the DD to change. I set the DD
> depending on what is going on. I may turn off shaders to keep a high FPS.
> But, changing DD when I'm in combat would really piss me off. One is already
> clicking and key banging as fast as one can. Having to fight with DD to keep
> it as an acceptable distance would be extremely annoying. I would change
> away from any viewer that has automatic DD that degrades my combat
> experience.
>
> When I am using Kirsten's Viewer for Photography I often use maximum DD and
> graphics setting and tolerate low FPS, even 2 or 3 FPS is acceptable, for
> the sake of capturing a great image. An automatic DD change would also be
> extremely annoying in such a scenario. Any change to my rendering settings
> would be annoying.
>
> I'm not sure that FPS is the criteria that is most important to residents.
> I like higher FPS. I think once FPS is 15 or more performance is less
> important to residents and render quality becomes more important. That is
> rather subjective. Before making a change like adding automatic tuning for
> performance one needs to determine what people find acceptable. The blow
> back from the changes made to the initial SLV2 is an example of
> how irritate people.
>
> Changing the viewer settings at install times is reasonable. I don't hear
> people complaining. We can over ride those settings. Once we do, performance
> is on us. Changing my choices after that just irritates me and motivates
> people to use TPV's.
>
> --
> Nalates Urriah
>
> ___
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> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
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Re: [opensource-dev] DD philosophy

[Lance Corrimal]

Am Freitag, 17. Juni 2011 schrieb Zha Ewry:

> I think any implementation of an Automatic DD would have to include
> a way to say "turn this off".


exactly.


LC
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[opensource-dev] Review Request: Update libndofdev in the linux viewer. This fixes the spacenavigator in linux.

[Log Linden]

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---

Review request for Viewer.


Summary
---

I have updated the libndofdev library used by the viewer for spacenavigator 
support in Linux to version 0.3. The other two platforms should be unaffected. 
This patch is to fix the problem where the spacenavigator light turns on and 
the buttons work when you start second life, but the joystick itself does 
nothing.


This addresses bugs OPEN-21, STORM-1320 and STORM-312.
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-21
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1320
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-312


Diffs
-

  autobuild.xml dc5af272d23f 

Diff: http://codereview.secondlife.com/r/342/diff


Testing
---

I have done local builds and the spacenavigator works for me with the new 
library. Autobuild install works correctly when fetching the new package.  If 
you want to test, try this on a machine with a kernel of at least 2.6.33.  
Another way to tell that your machine should be fixed by this change is to run 
dmesg | grep Logitech and look for "fixing up rel/abs in Logitech report 
descriptor" in the output.


Thanks,

Log

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[opensource-dev] Volunteer wanted: Wiki Skinning reorganization

[Jonathan Welch]

There are two top-level wiki entries for skinning:
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Skinning_How_To
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Skinning_HowTo

I just created links to all the subsections in each of them and so
discovered there are two categories with very similar names.  There
seems to be a mashup of V1 and V2 entries and sure could use some
reorganization and cleanup.  If you are looking for a project and know
something about wiki formatting then reorganizing and cleaning up
these entries is for you!

-jonathan
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Re: [opensource-dev] DD Philosophy

[Lillian Yiyuan]

Suggestion, have a version of the current advanced graphics settings,
with "min" and "max" levels for each of the current options, and a fps
target, as well as having a drop down for the priority of each. So for
example, I might set DD to min 64m max of 256m, and a priority of
"low," meaning that the viewer should reduce DD to keep fps. I might
have particle settings, and set that with a priority of low, as well
as min and max number of avatars to render and so on.


On 6/17/11, Hitomi Tiponi  wrote:
> Please no automatic DD - there are two many variables and differing
> circumstances for it ever to work.  Much better to work on other ways of
> improving fps e.g. selective updating of avatar movement.
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Review Request: Update libndofdev in the linux viewer. This fixes the spacenavigator in linux.

[Boroondas Gupte]

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Ship it!


- Boroondas


On June 17, 2011, 10:45 a.m., Log Linden wrote:
> 
> ---
> This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
> http://codereview.secondlife.com/r/342/
> ---
> 
> (Updated June 17, 2011, 10:45 a.m.)
> 
> 
> Review request for Viewer.
> 
> 
> Summary
> ---
> 
> I have updated the libndofdev library used by the viewer for spacenavigator 
> support in Linux to version 0.3. The other two platforms should be 
> unaffected. This patch is to fix the problem where the spacenavigator light 
> turns on and the buttons work when you start second life, but the joystick 
> itself does nothing.
> 
> 
> This addresses bugs OPEN-21, STORM-1320 and STORM-312.
> http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-21
> http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1320
> http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-312
> 
> 
> Diffs
> -
> 
>   autobuild.xml dc5af272d23f 
> 
> Diff: http://codereview.secondlife.com/r/342/diff
> 
> 
> Testing
> ---
> 
> I have done local builds and the spacenavigator works for me with the new 
> library. Autobuild install works correctly when fetching the new package.  If 
> you want to test, try this on a machine with a kernel of at least 2.6.33.  
> Another way to tell that your machine should be fixed by this change is to 
> run dmesg | grep Logitech and look for "fixing up rel/abs in Logitech report 
> descriptor" in the output.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Log
> 
>

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