Re: Convincing someone to switch to Linux
On Sunday 16 March 2003 16:39, Paul Johnson wrote: > On Sat, Mar 15, 2003 at 10:44:51PM +, Karsten M. Self wrote: > > > The "solution" that they decided on (not yet implemented) is to keep > > > the aging machines and purchase one new Dell machine with > > > WinXP/OfficeXP. > > > > Good arguments, and likely to go nowhere so long as the people you're > > dealing with have no GNU/Linux exposure. > > Actually, it still works. Before General Motors, people only drove > Fords. People hadn't ever been exposed to a GM vehicle before. > Obviously people found there were advantages to GM vehicles over > Fords, or everybody would be still be driving Fords to this day. > Claiming that operating systems are any different from any other kind > of decision is stupidity of the highest orer and should actively be > discouraged. Agreed, but unfortunately there's all this spurious 'compatible' crap. Nobody was ever scared off buying a GM car because it wasn't 'Ford-compatible'. First it was 'IBM compatible' then it was 'DOS compatible' and now it's 'Windows compatible', quite regardless of the fact that Mickey$oft's various flavours of Windoze aren't even compatible with each other. I get sick of having to explain to M$ users who don't know any better that, yes, I can display JPG's in Linux and no, I don't need M$ Word, there are perfectly good word processors, possibly even better ones, available for other platforms, and yes, of course I can read websites in Linux, the Net was *built* on Unix machines. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Convincing someone to switch to Linux
On Sunday 16 March 2003 23:05, Paul Johnson wrote: (snip) > > I get sick of having to explain to M$ users who don't know any > > better that, yes, I can display JPG's in Linux and no, I don't need > > M$ Word, there are perfectly good word processors, possibly even > > better ones, available for other platforms, and yes, of course I can > > read websites in Linux, the Net was *built* on Unix machines. > > Fortunately, the Portland area seems to have, for the most part, > computer users who understand life beyond Windows. While most > machines here run Windows, it seems like there's a lot more BSD, Linux > and Mac users around here than in most areas. It's been years since > I've encountered someone as ignorant as you describe, and even then it > was by telephone from San Bruno, California. You're lucky. Some of the ignorant users I'm referring to are our IT guys! Of course, they've all been on M$ courses, where they no doubt get it brainwashed into them that "If it isn't M$, it isn't compatible". But I think the main factor with them is, they're afraid to stick their necks out. Remember "Nobody ever got fired for specifying IBM" ?I expect M$ have adopted that slogan, by implication at least. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Convincing someone to switch to Linux
On Monday 17 March 2003 06:23, Pigeon wrote: > On Sun, Mar 16, 2003 at 03:05:57AM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On Sun, Mar 16, 2003 at 10:29:42AM +1200, cr wrote: > > > Agreed, but unfortunately there's all this spurious 'compatible' crap. > > > Nobody was ever scared off buying a GM car because it wasn't > > > 'Ford-compatible'. > > > > Really? So that's why you see so many government issue vehicles that > > aren't a Ford Crown Victoria or a Chevrolet Impala, or if it's been on > > the road for a while, a Fordrolet Crown Impala. There's not a whole > > lot that can't be exchanged between those two on most model years. > > Well, the analogy works better wrt British Fords and GMs. Over here, > one can proverbially assemble any set of Ford running gear into any > Ford bodyshell. So you can take the guts out of your 1300 Escort and > fit a Capri V6 and the overdrive gearbox out of a Transit van, and it > all just bolts together. You can play similar games within the > British/Vauxhall and German/Opel GM lines. But you can't put GM bits > in a Ford, or vide versa. > > But as far as most drivers are concerned, Fords and GMs are > compatible. The steering wheel, pedals etc are all in the same > relative positions and work the same way. If you were to make a car > with even slightly different controls - like a different gearshift > pattern - nobody would buy it. > > Pigeon Well, to take the analogy back to Linux - vs - Windoze - all word processors work pretty much the same. All spreadsheets work pretty much the same. The difference between M$Word and AbiWord, or Excel and Gnumeric, is no greater than than the difference between Win95 and W2K versions of M$Word / Excel. Just like hopping out of an Escort into a Vauxhall. But Windoze users won't believe that. They imagine anything but the M$ crudware they're accustomed to will be 'too difficult'. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X startup / KPPP / boot floppy
I've been using RH for a couple of years (RH5.2, 6.0, 7.2) and I thought I'd try Debian 3.0. I did a new install but ran into some weird behaviour (or at least, stuff I don't understand) so I'm back with RH for now.Sorry if some of my questions are a bit elementary. And any comparisons with Red Hat are *not* intended to imply that RH is better, just what I'm used to. When I first tried to launch X, it failed with various messages like 'no screens found' (exactly the same always seems to happen with RH). I eventually got this sorted in /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 but it may have caused some X startup settings to get corrupted. Anwyay, next time I booted, it went straight into Gnome, it wouldn't let me log in as root, only as me, a user, and if logged out it presented the same login screen again. I couldn't even shut down. The only way I could get out of X was Alt-Ctrl-F1, then when I tried startx it logged me into KDE. So question 1, which file determines whether one gets a command-line or a X login on startup? And whether it invokes gnome or KDE? My strong preference is for a command-line login, and invoke Gnome on starting X. Next, kppp - it would dial my ISP, but then drop off the line with "Remote system is required to authenticate itself but couldn't find suitable secret (password) for it to do so (None of the available passwords would let it use an IP address)". After reading the help files I put "noauth" in KPPP's setup 'customize pppd arguments' which seems to work. However, applications like Kmail and browsers are not communicating with kppp, not even if I'm logged in as root. I get no error messages that I can recall, just the modem lights do not show anything happening when I click on a URL or on Send / Get mail.Is this a permissions thing? (kppp works fine out of the box in Red Hat). Third, LILO doesn't work, I'm having to boot off a floppy (same goes for Red Hat). However, the Debian floppy takes forever to read and boot. Is this normal? (Red Hat is quite quick off a floppy). Eventually I'll try and sort LILO to work properly, but having a reasonable speed of floppy booting would help in the meantime. Please forgive me if these are elementary questions, if I can get some promising answers I'll try installing Debian again. Regards Chris Rodliffe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Convincing someone to switch to Linux
On Tuesday 18 March 2003 00:24, Jamin W. Collins wrote: > On Mon, Mar 17, 2003 at 08:50:43AM +1200, cr wrote: > > Well, to take the analogy back to Linux - vs - Windoze - all word > > processors work pretty much the same. All spreadsheets work pretty > > much the same. The difference between M$Word and AbiWord, or Excel > > and Gnumeric, is no greater than than the difference between Win95 and > > W2K versions of M$Word / Excel. Just like hopping out of an Escort > > into a Vauxhall. > > Not quite so. > > While OO.o and the like are very close counterparts to MS Office, there > are a few items they just can't do yet (at least not that I've found), > like inter-document linking and embedding between all documents. This > was the killer when I took this road with my employer. I had everything > lined up and ready then this little thing came up. The best I was able > to do was actively embed a spreadsheet within a document and vice versa. > Had the other components of OO.o been able to do the same everything > would have been fine. However, as far as I can tell, they can not. The > closest I was ever able to come with the other components was a static > embedding. This may apply for your users. However, most of the users where I work - including *all* of those who think that anything but M$ would be 'too difficult' - never reach that level of complication anyway. They're lucky if they can select a font without help. So in their case, my comparison would still apply. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Rant (was Re: X Window : Newbie)
On Thursday 20 March 2003 00:55, Joerg Johannes wrote: (snips) > You're right. But still it is non-intuitive that a regular user has not > the rights to "startx" by default. man "XF86Config" and "man startx" > won't tell you how to allow it to a normal user. Is this so? If I type 'startx' as me (non-root) then X won't start unless I go change some permissions? (presumably, having opened a console window from the X login and gone su root to do so) (I ask this because RedHat which I'm currently using does allow it by default. And I'm a *very* newbie since I just tried installing Debian, failed to quite get it working, and am back in RH while I plan my next attempt). Chris -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Rant (was Re: X Window : Newbie)
On Sunday 23 March 2003 17:56, Karsten M. Self wrote: > > Is this so? If I type 'startx' as me (non-root) then X won't start > > unless I go change some permissions? (presumably, having opened a > > console window from the X login and gone su root to do so) > > If you're saying you can't start an X session as a nonprivileged user > from a terminal within an X session: this is as it should be. I think I was being a bit confused and confusing, for which my apologies, the bit in brackets was a half-thought-out afterthought. My reference to su root was in connection with changing permissions. I imagine I would also have to do the same in order to change the login to Linux command-line rather than starting in X. I don't know whether this is considered bad practice but my experience with X display managers (both in RH *and* my sole Debian attempt) is that Linux *always* works and X frequently doesn't without much tweaking, hence my liking for the command line. > The control for this is /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config. The usual values are > 'root', 'console', or 'anybody'. This file is part of the > xserver-common package, and can be configured with: > ># dpkg-reconfigure xserver-common > > > (I ask this because RedHat which I'm currently using does allow it by > > default. > > RH's default configs should *not* be referred to as best practice. I wasn't, just as what I'm used to. > > And I'm a *very* newbie since I just tried installing Debian, > > failed to quite get it working, and am back in RH while I plan my next > > attempt). > > No problems. You've heard of chroot installs? You *can* have it both > ways: > > http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DebianChrootInstall Thanks. Actually the install was not the problem. Getting X to start was - solved that - and then getting kppp to work - and then to communicate with Kmail and browsers - was. Chris -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X
en selected, or the significance of it. Nor do they realise that > they don't need it, especially given dselect's obstinacy over > suggests/recommends. Or they just use tasksel, and know even less > about what's going on. Hit the Button That Makes It Work, reboot, X > can't handle the motherboard's onboard video adapter, machine is > useless. With any luck it will drop back to the command line, I think. Knowing what the installation (i.e. Linux) should look like is a huge advantage when trying a new install. I don't wish to wave the flag for Red Hat (after all, I'm seriously trying to change to Debian!) but I'm very relieved that my first ever Linux install was Red Hat, because I do think Debian might have baffled me completely and I'd be running W95 now. I do hope my comments will be taken as helpful feedback, I appreciate the work people put into programming these things. I will say the install on the whole went quite smoothly (except for a lot of fiddling with dselect trying to make it work), the problems all arose when I started trying to run it - xf86config-4 needed much tweaking to recognise my graphics card (an ordinary S3 Trio) and the automatic boot-into-X just complicated matters. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: More on spam
On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Sure, if I delete the spam, the spam will be deleted. > > But having to delete the spam *is* the problem, not the solution. The > problem is, you go to bed, and in the morning there are 250 154K > messages that have to be downloaded, seeked and erased, or worse, seeked > and erased with a not-too-fast webmail interface. > > You can dump a free Yahoo mail account easily, but if it is your ISP > email account that is bombed, it is a lot worse. Sounds like you have a POP account?I had to go the webmail route a couple of times when Kmail showed there was >> 2MB of mail in my account. A pox on ISP site authors who design over-fancy slow-loading Webmail screens :( But anyway, now I've found a rather primitive but effective little utility called pop3browser that I can recommend. Runs in a terminal window, downloads a list of message sizes, allows me to select which ones to delete (and the ones > 100K stick out a mile in the list).I assume nobody's sending me legitimate messages > 100K anyway. But be *very* careful only to mark the messages you want deleted, you get no second chance if you delete the wrong one. There's a similar utility called popcheck that was recommended to me, but it stalled halfway through the list of messages the first time I used it. Might be worth another try. I only bother with pop3browser if Kmail shows me (when it starts) that there's > 1MB of mail in the box. But it sure beats the heck out of webmail! cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Kmail 2 features (was: Re: More on spam)
On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:27, Magnus von Koeller wrote: > On Friday 17 October 2003 11:50, cr wrote: > > Sounds like you have a POP account? I had to go the webmail > > route a couple of times when Kmail showed there was >> 2MB of mail > > in my account. A pox on > > But KMail has POP filters that do the exact same thing that you > described for that pop3browser utility - and you can define custom > rules. With the set of rules I came up with, I get all swen mails > that are actually >100k filtered out. I'm using Kmail 1.3.2 in KDE 2.2.2. in Woody.I thought that POP filter was a feature that was only in Kmail 2. (And I shied off Kmail 2 - and RedHat 9 - because the first time I tried to run it, it warned me that messages I hit 'Delete' on are gone - I can't retrieve them from Trash. I can't live with that. If someone can tell me there's a way to configure that behaviour out of Kmail 2 I'll be a very happy chappy :). cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Kmail 2 features (was: Re: More on spam)
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:28, Magnus von Koeller wrote: > On Saturday 18 October 2003 03:53, cr wrote: > > I'm using Kmail 1.3.2 in KDE 2.2.2. in Woody. I thought that POP > > filter was a feature that was only in Kmail 2. > > True, true - that version doesn't have POP filters yet IIRC. It's not > KMail 2, though, they just went on with 1.4 and are now at 1.5.3 > (which is in sid and which I'm using). > > > (And I shied off > > Kmail 2 - and RedHat 9 - because the first time I tried to run it, > > it warned me that messages I hit 'Delete' on are gone - I can't > > retrieve them from Trash. > > That's not true; in current KMail there's two ways to delete a > message: "Delete" or "Move to Trash". "Delete" immediately, > irrevocably deletes a message. "Move to Trash" works like the old > delete function. The default behavior is actually "Move to Trash" and > it's only warning you to make sure you know the difference. Thanks! That wasn't apparent from the warning message.In every other respect, Kmail does exactly what I want I'm now *much* happier about the prospect of upgrading to a later Kmail when the next Debian stable release comes out. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X desktop settings
(Sorry if I left any replies in previous threads unacknowledged - my motherboard died which caused a loss of communications for a couple of weeks). Can anyone confirm this - are *all* the X desktop settings kept in the /home/ directory? And is it therefore possible just to copy the whole of /home/ to a safe place before doing something really reckless and potentially likely to break things (like changing my desktop from KDE to Gnome for example) and if I find X hopelessy screwed up afterwards, can I just immediately copy my backup straight back to /home/ and get all my old settings back? Or are there major 'look-and-feel' settings kept elsewhere? Regards cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Time is runnign too fast
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:17, Nori Heikkinen wrote: > oh my god, i can't decide if that link is hilarious or what ... > > "Barbie Wizards guide girls through the process of partitioning > their disks, formatting volumes, mounting Samba shares, and > installing packages. > > This kind of attention to detail and thorough understanding of > female limitations also shows in the step by step Barbie Wizards > that guide girls through the process of partitioning their disks, > formatting volumes, mounting Samba shares, and installing packages. > During the installation, girls are allowed to play a fashion-plate > game or view a slideshow of rainbows, kittens, and Mattel products." > > !! > > is this a joke?? > > " An animated Barbie informs the user that she can work with existing Windows partitions, but would prefer that BarbieOS be allowed to format the entire disk and remove Windows volumes for maximum cootie protection." Definitely a joke. Look at some of the pages it links to: http://www.divisiontwo.com/articles/newsburst3.htm http://www.divisiontwo.com/articles/windows_no.htm On second thoughts, I have a nasty feeling the second of those links might be only too accurate :( cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X desktop settings
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:48, Paul Johnson wrote: > On Wed, Oct 29, 2003 at 04:58:05AM +1300, cr wrote: > > Can anyone confirm this - are *all* the X desktop settings kept in the > > /home/ directory? > > You mean your desktop environment, like Gnome or KDE? Yeah, all your > user-specific settings are in your home directory. Thanks! cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Microsoft good press over Longhorn
On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:07, Joyce, Matthew wrote: > I know the finance people I have worked with love excel and are proficient > at using it, for them it is a totally useful tool. > The researchers here all us excel and it is very useful and easy to be to > wite vba functions and have them centralised and shared. > > Having Excel on PCs, Mac OS9 and OSX is also useful. > > For myself, I like the formula auditing function of Excel, I find it > extremely useful. > http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-6270-1061218.html > > I'm not particulaly pro MS, but I find the "Microsoft's software has always > sucked" rant boring. > > I know this is a linux list, and no doubt I'm in for a roasting. > > m Oh, now, let me see, it really really always has sucked. I've been forced to use it most of my working life, and on many occasions I've cursed it and thought 'there must be something better than this shit!' A few examples off the top of my head just to back that up (I've forgotten hundreds).. MS Word - in text, the Tab key inserts a tab (chr9). In tables, the Tab key jumps you to the next column. That's _real_ consistent, nice one, Micro$oft! So ya curse and hit Shft-Tab to jump back, Ctrl-Tab to insert a tab - and it deletes *everything* you just typed in that cell. Oh, nice one, Micro$oft! And of course there's *no* way to reprogram the Tab key to behave consistently (that I could ever find, anyway). Nice one, M$. This is why I won't use tables just to put clause titles in the right margin, I use Frames instead. Only snag is, frames are buggy - what you see is never quite what you get, the little boxes always appear on the page a line above or a line below where they will on the printer.Nice one, M$. Try using Word2K and using a mouse to select areas in a table, over a Thin Client network - it's completely uncontrollable (and our IS folks have found no way to tame it). Nice one, M$. Automatic clause numbering - really diabolical, easy to screw up totally, and can be almost impossible to remove once someone's invoked it. Other apps Try selecting 'View Source' of a simple HTML page in IE and then saving it to disk - then take a look at it again with a text editor. Whatever-it-is that IE uses as a viewer/editor has dumped 3K of useless Micro$oft-proprietary font definitions all over it without even warning you. Instant 150% bloat. Nice one, M$! I won't even mention viruses or Outhouse Excess. I'll make *one* exception - MS Project is actually quite a well-thought-out piece of software. The only M$ one I know of. Excel's probably not too bad but, umm, weren't most of the good bits invented by L-o-t-u-s? Going back a bit...QuickBasic. Really very limited for a program that cost hundreds of $$$. GWBasic - incredibly primitive, compared with other Basics of the time. No graphics functions, no structure beyond IF-THEN-GOTO-GOSUB.. DOS - most of its (very necessary) improvements were written as little apps by third-party developers (often copied from UNIX) and then copied by M$ I suppose I could go all the way back to Edlin. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Horizontal Sync
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:42, Tom Hinkley wrote: > /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 > > i need to specify my HorizSync in the above configuration file so that i > can have the resolution 1024x768. I am runiing debian linux version 3.0 > (woody). I have a Blade T64 AGP graphics card installed and working with > KDE at 800x600 however i wish to find my monitors HorizSync value (i found > the refresh rate on the manufacturers website) but i still need the > HorizSync. I tried inventing values for the configuration file but KDE > remained in 800x600. I have no idea what my HorizSync value is nor how to > obtain it. One of the values I require is 60Hz /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 needs > the other value. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also if there is > something that I may be doing wrong or if I have over looked something then > please notify me. Thanks > > > Tom > > > e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm also running 3.0.I've always just guessed my sync (my monitor is a brand that Google's never heard of :) Yes I know there are all sorts of warnings about destroying your monitor... I try to be conservative. Something I think I read in a man page somewhere is that X tries to use the first value listed under the default display depth, so the XF86Config-4 lines may need to be swapped around a bit - mine reads: Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen 1" Device "s3v" Monitor "nech" DefaultDepth 16 Subsection "Display" Depth 8 Modes "640x480" "800x600" "1024x768" "1280x1024" ViewPort0 0 EndSubsection Subsection "Display" Depth 16 # Modes "640x480" "800x600" "1024x768" "1280x1024" Modes "1024x768" "1280x1024" "800x600" "640x480" Viewport 0 0 EndSubsection You'll note I've shuffled the Modes line under my chosen default depth (16) to put my preferred screen (1024x768) first. That could be what you need to do to get a 1024x768. Or I could be completely wrong, I'm no expert. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Microsoft good press over Longhorn
On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 08:43, Pigeon wrote: > On Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at 09:40:01PM +1300, cr wrote: > > DOS - most of its (very necessary) improvements were written as little > > apps by third-party developers (often copied from UNIX) and then copied > > by M$ > > Ah, nostalgia... I have quite a rosy memory of DOS 3.x being pretty > easy to work with. I tend to forget that one of the first things I did > under it was clone most of the useful command-line tools I missed from > Unix, using Borland Turbo C, version 1.0... and my tools, unlike > Microsoft's, took care to do disk I/O in multiples of the cluster > size, which sped things up tremendously in those days. I was totally unaware of things *nix in those days. All I knew was that Simtel had heaps of handy little DOS utilities many of which had references in their Help files to strange and arcane things like 'Emacs' and 'GPL'... > It's interesting that MS Word on the Macintosh (MacOS 6) beat the crap > out of the contemporary MS Word for Windows... not only did it have > more features, but they all worked, properly, reliably and > consistently. The Windows version, by comparison, looked like an > approximate clone knocked up by some backstreet cowboy outfit. Seems > they can write good apps, but only under Apple's iron fist... > > > I suppose I could go all the way back to Edlin. > > I still use ed... ed - is that the DOS full screen editor?Vastly superior to edlin, of course. And it was simple, consistent and it worked. What more could one want? ;) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Slow linux.bin
On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 04:16, Ron Johnson wrote: > On Sun, 2003-11-02 at 08:48, - _ r a r o h _ - wrote: > > Hallo, > > > > installed woody with booting from floppy - it takes 4 minutes to read > > the floppy. I hear the movement of the floppy some 20 seconds ... > > > > Any idea how to fix ? > > 4 minutes to read a 1.44MB floppy? That was dog slow even in 1990. > > Have you looked in /var/log/syslog? Did you hear the FDD clicking > and whining like it there's a bad sector on the disk? I've had some experience of floppy-booting Linuxes (usually until I get Grub sorted) and I found that, on a K6-2 350, Red Hat was tolerable (don't know how many seconds exactly, but not much slower than DOS). OTOH, floppy-booting Debian Woody was incredibly slow - six or seven *minutes*! But no signs of any disk read failures - just very slow overall. However, on my new box (Athlon 2000) Woody floppy-boots in maybe 15 seconds. I don't really believe the speed of floppy-booting is dependent on the CPU :) - more likely, it was some sort of incompatible drive setting (though what, I have no idea). cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Microsoft good press over Longhorn
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 23:37, Paul Johnson wrote: > On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 05:13:01PM +, Pigeon wrote: > > Nah, that was EDIT.COM - before that appeared I used to use the Turbo > > C editor to edit text files; I think the guys who wrote EDIT.COM did > > too. > > I remember c:\dos\edit.com fondly as well, probably the best text > editor to ever come out of MS. Still doesn't hold a flame to emacs, > but hey, it's Microsoft we're talking about here, so what do you expect? Well, I discovered Edit when our department got a IBM PC with a dot-matrix printer. At that time we engineers had to write specifications on a mainframe terminal in some 'scripting' language, send them off to some queue, phone up Accounts (who owned the mainframe) and beg them nicely to run some compiler on it and send it to the Print queue, then phone up Printing and tell them it was ours. If we were lucky, next day, we'd get the result and (if we'd made no mistakes in our scripting!) it would be readable. If not... Nobody told me about Edit, I found it by accident. But as soon as I saw it I recognised The Future. Or, Freedom. I printed off one page to prove to myself that it would work, went to the mainframe terminal, logged in, typed "Change Password", shut my eyes and typed in random letters, locking myself out of the detested mainframe forever.:) Does anyone wonder why I hate Thin Clients...? ;) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mainframe & thin-client (was Re: Microsoft good press over Longhorn)
On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 01:15, Ron Johnson wrote: > On Sun, 2002-11-03 at 01:14, cr wrote: > > On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 23:37, Paul Johnson wrote: > > > On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 05:13:01PM +, Pigeon wrote: > > > > Nah, that was EDIT.COM - before that appeared I used to use the Turbo > > > > C editor to edit text files; I think the guys who wrote EDIT.COM did > > > > too. > > > > > > I remember c:\dos\edit.com fondly as well, probably the best text > > > editor to ever come out of MS. Still doesn't hold a flame to emacs, > > > but hey, it's Microsoft we're talking about here, so what do you > > > expect? > > > > Well, I discovered Edit when our department got a IBM PC with a > > dot-matrix printer. At that time we engineers had to write > > specifications on a mainframe terminal in some 'scripting' language, send > > them off to some queue, phone up Accounts (who owned the mainframe) and > > beg them nicely to run some compiler on it and send it to the Print > > queue, then phone up Printing and tell them it was ours. If we were > > lucky, next day, we'd get the result and (if we'd made no mistakes in our > > scripting!) it would be readable. If not... > > > > Nobody told me about Edit, I found it by accident. But as soon as I saw > > it I recognised The Future. Or, Freedom. I printed off one page to > > prove to myself that it would work, went to the mainframe terminal, > > logged in, typed "Change Password", shut my eyes and typed in random > > letters, locking myself out of the detested mainframe forever.:) > > > > Does anyone wonder why I hate Thin Clients...? ;) > > I hate to use such strong words, but to compare the centralized > control of resources that existed on *old* mainframes with the > centralized control of resources on a thin-client/fat-server and > find any but the most basic similarities is verging on delusion. > > After all, it's no more difficult to have a printer sitting on your > desk, or down the hall with a TC/FS network-based system as it is > when you have stand-alone or fat-client/thin-server system. And > you're still running all the same apps, no matter what. The *major* similarity between mainframes and Thin Clients is, that as a user on a Thin Client, I am stuck with the software and the settings that are installed on the Fat Server (or whatever it's called).Those are *not* the same apps as I choose to run on my old W95 box, I can't install anything of my own on the server. (I already asked that one, and I knew what the answer would be.Mainframe Mentality is creeping back). On 'my' (actually the company's) old W95 box, I have Opera, graphics viewers, Xbasic, a pretty cool screensaver, heaps of other W95 freeware. They're the only things that make using a Windoze box tolerable, for me. It's about freedom of choice, you know? Fortunately for me, I also have a considerable number of little engineering programs installed which justifies me keeping my old box. Thin Clients might be suitable for copy typists, data entry clerks and Dumb Users.Certainly not for engineers or anybody who's likely to be reading this list. If we thought Microcrap was the greatest we wouldn't be on this list, right? cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some newbie questions
On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 04:49, Bijan Soleymani wrote: > On Wed, Nov 05, 2003 at 08:49:48AM -0500, Roberto Sanchez wrote: > > Alexey Buistov wrote: > > >Hello Debian fans! > > > > > >The sixth iso image of binary "woody" is being downloaded to my machine > > >right now, but I'm still having plenty of questions concerning Debian > > >installation and even pre-installation. Please point me to some doco or > > >answer directly in mailing list: > > > > First, you probably only need the first CD. I have only rearely heard > > of situations where anyone *requires* any of the other CDs. That is > > usually because they have special or strange hardware that will not boot > > the regular kernel on the first CD. > > People with dial-up may appreciate the other CDs. I currently don't have > an internet connection at home, so I especially need them. > > Bijan I'm on dial-up, and I have just the first two (Woody) CD's, and I've only ever found *one* app I wanted that wasn't on one of those two - Kppp. (I downloaded that separately). In other words, CD's 1 and 2 probably contain almost everything an average user (certainly a newbie user) is likely to want. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mainframe & thin-client (was Re: Microsoft good press over Longhorn)
On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:19, Ron Johnson wrote: > On Mon, 2002-11-04 at 00:06, cr wrote: > > On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 01:15, Ron Johnson wrote: > > > On Sun, 2002-11-03 at 01:14, cr wrote: > > > > On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 23:37, Paul Johnson wrote: > > > > > On Sat, Nov 01, 2003 at 05:13:01PM +, Pigeon wrote: > > > > > > Nah, that was EDIT.COM - before that appeared I used to use the > > > > > > Turbo C editor to edit text files; I think the guys who wrote > > > > > > EDIT.COM did too. > > > > > > > > > > I remember c:\dos\edit.com fondly as well, probably the best text > > > > > editor to ever come out of MS. Still doesn't hold a flame to > > > > > emacs, but hey, it's Microsoft we're talking about here, so what do > > > > > you expect? > > > > > > > > Well, I discovered Edit when our department got a IBM PC with a > > > > dot-matrix printer. At that time we engineers had to write > > > > specifications on a mainframe terminal in some 'scripting' language, > > > > send them off to some queue, phone up Accounts (who owned the > > > > mainframe) and beg them nicely to run some compiler on it and send it > > > > to the Print queue, then phone up Printing and tell them it was ours. > > > > If we were lucky, next day, we'd get the result and (if we'd made > > > > no mistakes in our scripting!) it would be readable. If not... > > > > > > > > Nobody told me about Edit, I found it by accident. But as soon as I > > > > saw it I recognised The Future. Or, Freedom. I printed off one > > > > page to prove to myself that it would work, went to the mainframe > > > > terminal, logged in, typed "Change Password", shut my eyes and typed > > > > in random letters, locking myself out of the detested mainframe > > > > forever.:) > > > > > > > > Does anyone wonder why I hate Thin Clients...? ;) > > > > > > I hate to use such strong words, but to compare the centralized > > > control of resources that existed on *old* mainframes with the > > > centralized control of resources on a thin-client/fat-server and > > > find any but the most basic similarities is verging on delusion. > > > > > > After all, it's no more difficult to have a printer sitting on your > > > desk, or down the hall with a TC/FS network-based system as it is > > > when you have stand-alone or fat-client/thin-server system. And > > > you're still running all the same apps, no matter what. > > > > The *major* similarity between mainframes and Thin Clients is, that as a > > user on a Thin Client, I am stuck with the software and the settings that > > are installed on the Fat Server (or whatever it's called).Those are > > *not* the same apps as I choose to run on my old W95 box, I can't install > > anything of my own on the server. (I already asked that one, and I knew > > what the answer would be.Mainframe Mentality is creeping back). > > Yes, that's true, and, being An Old Mainframe Guy, who still works > on host-based systems (OpenVMS), I like the idea of being able to > tell the user, "No, you can *not* mangle your machine, then bitch > at me for taking all day to try to fix what you broke, or all day > and all night recovering the office from a virus/worm/trojan that > you introduced onto the LAN". Or in other words, "Don't let the users touch *anything*".I can see why that might appeal to a sysadmin... I hope it's obvious why it's anathema to me (as a user). I long ago came to an understanding with our IT guys - "we don't want to know what you've got on it but don't expect us to fix it if it crashes", to quote one of them. I've respected that and avoided doing anything that might crash it, successfully so far. Hey, *I* don't use Outhouse Excess or Internet Exploiter with ActiveX and everything else set to auto-run.I won't be the one who clicks on the attachment in a strange email. ;) > Also, standardization: with TC/FS, there's no possibility of > 5 different versions of Windows (plus Service Packs), or a half > dozen versions of kernels and distros floating around the org, > causing weird incompatibilities. Well actually, we have that, since the various machines that are now used as de facto dumb terminals date from different vintages. And a number of things that worked previously on the network do not wor
Re: Mainframe & thin-client (was Re: Microsoft good press over Longhorn)
To wind this down a bit (massive snippage) > > > > Thin Clients might be suitable for copy typists, data entry clerks > > > > and Dumb Users.Certainly not for engineers or anybody who's > > > > likely to be reading this list. If we thought Microcrap was the > > > > greatest we wouldn't be on this list, right? > > > > > > Guess what? Thin-clients work *great* on Linux! http://www.ltsp.org > > > > > > TC obviously isn't suitable for your tasks, but to say "Does anyone > > > wonder why I hate Thin Clients...?" is a very "big" sentence. > > > > *I* hate Thin Clients, for the very good reasons I stated. I never said > > everybody else has to, I guess there are zillions of Windoze users out > > there who are perfectly happy locked in a cosy padded cell. > > Again, it's MS, not TC. OK, let's just say that I *hate* Thin Clients when they're loaded with nothing but Micro$oft software. I have no experience of Thin Clients running Linux so I'd better reserve judgement on those. :) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: heres my noob install questions, smart people please help
On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 02:22, Hoyt Bailey wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "ScruLoose" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 21:47 > Subject: Re: heres my noob install questions, smart people please help > > In linux or windows I dont qualify as smart but I have some experience with > this subject. I think you are under some misconception about whats > happening. I had a windows system and a RH system on the same disk. The > RH system auto mounted the windows at /mnt/windows so I had access to all > of the windows files it was easy to transfer xxx to RH by cp xxx xxx. I > was mostly using gimp on the RH but could not think of a way to transfer > from RH to windows except via floppy. Consider the following when windows > is mounted on the linux system it is just a file on a directory > (mnt/windows) windows isnt running! Should you write a file to > /mnt/windows there is nothing to check for free space, Surely the Linux that you're running will check for free space if you write to a FAT32 partition? > nothing to register > the file as far as windows is concerned the file dosent exist but you have > corrupted the system by overwriting files that it knows about. What would > happen ? Who knows! Hmmm... I have a Lose98 partition on my box...maybe I'll just copy a couple of files to it and see what happens when I boot w98 again (Btw, DOS doesn't care if I do that.Nor is DOS nearly so paranoid about where it boots from.A far superior OS to Windows, is DOS 8) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: "Red Hat recommends Windows for consumers"
On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 07:27, Ron Johnson wrote: > On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 11:45, Jonathan Dowland wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 11:01:58AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: > > > As in "proprietary, closed-source apps"? > > > > > > Well, that depends on if you see them as a "problem", or something > > > that you prefer not to use. > > > > > > I prefer not to use proprietary, closed-source apps, but, when > > > necessary, will pay for them, and use them, even on Debian. > > > > Personally I haven't really made my mind up about prioprietry apps, and > > whether RMS is right or not. However, the success of Linux is widely > > attributed to the open-source development model, so I can't really see > > the future of Linux throwing it away. > > I'm all for the open-source development model. However, we must > respect that some companies want to keep their source closed, and > still sell to the Linux market. (snip) Personally, I think the battle should be about open *standards*.I think Open Source is good, but I quite happily use as my preferred browser, Opera (which I'm pretty sure isn't Open Source), in preference to Konq or Galeon. Just a matter of personal preference. What I won't tolerate (when I have any say in the matter) is proprietary standards whereby one company tries to establish a monopoly (and yes I do mean Microsoft).Anybody sends me a Word doc is likely to be asked to send it again in some open format.I don't care that Open Office can read it (though I rather welcome the existence of OO - anything that helps to undermine the Evil Empire can't be bad :) Unfortunately I can't apply this at work. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: "Red Hat recommends Windows for consumers"
On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 10:28, Mike Mueller wrote: > On Friday 07 November 2003 13:27, Ron Johnson wrote: > > On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 11:45, Jonathan Dowland wrote: > > > On Fri, Nov 07, 2003 at 11:01:58AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: > > > > As in "proprietary, closed-source apps"? > > > > > > > > Well, that depends on if you see them as a "problem", or something > > > > that you prefer not to use. > > > > > > Personally I haven't really made my mind up about prioprietry apps, and > > > whether RMS is right or not. However, the success of Linux is widely > > > attributed to the open-source development model, so I can't really see > > > the future of Linux throwing it away. > > > > I'm all for the open-source development model. However, we must > > respect that some companies want to keep their source closed, and > > still sell to the Linux market. > > I'm fascinated with this question from a practical perspective. > > The RMS model works when producers can afford to present a gift or when a > community organizes to accomplish a goal (barn-raising, for example). > > Let's say you're a barn builder. People need barns and are used to buying > barns now-a-days. You go around to the community and suggest a community > barn-raising project. Everyone agrees but you soon find out the > participants are barn users and not barn builders. The community is more > than happy to use the barn you give them for free if you'll do it for free. > You talk to your family and they remind you that they'll starve if you > build barns for free. So you offer to build barns for a price and you find > that people are willing to buy the barns because they don't want to learn > barn-building. Your barn idea works fine in that mythical beast, a 'free market'. The problem we are faced with, is that the biggest barn builder has managed to run every other barn builder out of town and now has a monopoly on barns, sells only one (patented) model that falls down after a few years and needs replacement, and charges exorbitant prices for them. Nobody else can afford to start a barn-building business because, one way or another, Mr Big will buy them out, intimidate the lumber merchants not to sell to them, threaten them with copyright lawsuits, or (if sufficiently pushed) drop the prices on his barns just until they are forced out of business. Maybe the only way to break the bastard is for enough prospective barn owners to get together and start co-operatively building barns. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Social Engineering. {was: Re: Opium [was: Re: freelance sysadmining -- superlong -- [WAS: "Red Hat recommends Windows for consumers"]]
On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:12, David Palmer. wrote: > On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:44:33 -0600 > > Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 14:48, David Palmer. wrote: > > > On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:41:32 -0800 > > > > > > > > > Agreed. > > > Einstein failed a maths exam, didn't see the sense in memorising > > > multiplication tables when they were already written down. > > > The education programme, which varies extensively with any > > > particular environment, is initiated from approved texts. The most > > > successful(individuals?) within the restrictions of the imposed > > > paradigms gains the appropriate marks of social approval. Thinking > > > outside the square and other symptoms of intelligence are looked > > > down upon. and even derogated. > > > The modern 'educational' process is there to teach people how to > > > read just well enough so that they no longer need to think. > > > Regards, > > > > It seems to me that the "most successful" would be those who can > > master the social needs (get good grades from approved testbooks, > > etc), while still being able to think outside the box. > > These potentially highly dangerous individuals are confined to > institutions known as 'research centres', and if non conforming are seen > as a disruptive and undesirable element by the established social order, > and are further relegated to the classification of 'terrorist'. > Regards, > > David. Yeah. I'm waiting for Micro$oft to figure out some way to label GNU/Linux as a 'terrorist' operating system. I'm sure they're working on it cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opium [was: Re: freelance sysadmining -- superlong -- [WAS: "Red Hat recommends Windows for consumers"]]
On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:12, Ron Johnson wrote: > On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 15:00, Alfredo Valles wrote: > > > [1] For those (particularly non-US citizens) who don't know, back > > > in the mid-1990s, 2 white teenagers from a affluent family walked > > > into their High School armed with rifles and pistols. They proceed- > > > ed to blow away those they didn't like, whatever the reason. > > > > I have heard a lot about some movie about guns in US called Bowling For > > Columbine. I haven't see it yet, but friend have told it's very good. > > Now I know where the name came from. > > That movie's writer/director, Michael Moore, *hates* people who > don't agree with him. So, if you watch the movie, remember that. ... which is just another way of saying, that he puts his point of view *very* effectively and you hate him because you don't agree with it, huh? ;) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opium [was: Re: freelance sysadmining -- superlong -- [WAS: "Red Hat recommends Windows for consumers"]]
On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 15:06, Ron Johnson wrote: > On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 15:41, ScruLoose wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 02:09:27PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: > > > On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 12:41, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 01:35:20PM -0500, Alfredo Valles wrote: > > > > > I don't think they will do so well with the number of guns you have > > > > > in the streets, bullets don't distinguish Ph degrees. > > > > > > > > PhDs and brains don't go hand-in-hand; part of being smart is knowing > > > > how to work within whatever cultural limitations you must; in the > > > > case of firearm-owning Americans, you just need to be smart enough > > > > not to not get on their bad side. Social engineering at its most > > > > useful. > > > > > > There are roughly 40M handguns in this country, and quite a number > > > of states have "right to carry concealed handgun" laws. If the > > > vast majority of people had such a low level of self-control, we > > > should see, for example, multiple Columbines[1] on a daily basis. > > > Since we don't, what conclusion can we draw from this? > > > > Well, when you look at the US figures on "firearm-related fatalities" > > being up in the tens of thousands per year... > > compared to (for example) Canada with a couple of hundred per year (and > > tight gun control laws, what a bizarre coincidence)... > > http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/994015/posts > > > > I realize that Canada has about one-tenth the population of USA, but > > that still gives you per-capita rates that say Americans are somewhere > > on the order of ten _times_ as likely to blow each other away. > > > > Does it take "multiple Columbines on a daily basis" to constitute a > > problem? > > Somewhere close to a hundred Americans blow each other away _per_day_ > > and you want this to lead me to the conclusion that things are okay? > > And... > - most are done with hot weapons > - most are "criminal-on-criminal" > > I'd rather not live in a nanny state, and take my chance, however > minimal they are, in a slightly more anarchic society. That's kinda a risky argument to rely on, since if accepted it inevitably leads to the question - why does the US have ten times as many homicidal criminals per capita, than other countries? Answers in the back of an envelope please, addressed to the Director-General, FBI, Washington (I guess he'd dearly like to know...) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: East Asian O/S
On Tuesday 09 September 2003 12:23, csj wrote: > At Tue, 9 Sep 2003 05:32:41 +0800, > > Katipo wrote: > > On Tuesday 09 September 2003 02:03, Mark L. Kahnt wrote: > > > An article from the BBC Online of relative interest - Asian > > > countries investing in and turning to a *new* operating > > > system so that they can avoid the lock-in of Microsoft, > > > although as the article continues, it is obvious that they > > > are turning to Linux rather than something developed from > > > scratch by them. > > > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3090918.stm > > > > The three countries concerned are mainland China, Korea, and > > Japan. Mainland China developed its' own linux programme > > sometime ago called Red Flag Linux, and the new distro is to be > > Linux based. Regards, > > I think it makes more sense for governments to use the less > restrictively licensed *BSDs as a base. This would allow the > embedding of spyware into the OS to help prevent it from being > used for terroristic, anarchistic and copyright-infringing > activities. Well, it might make more sense for totalitarian governents, yes.:( cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Windows multiboot (aaargh!)
This may seem an odd place to ask this, but I'll bet some of the folks on this list know more about the technicalities of booting Windoze than Windoze users do ;) I'd like to add a multi-boot DOS + Win95/98 hard drive to my Linuxbox. I currently have Deb 3.0 installed on /dev/hda, booting with GRUB, and I have a 500MB DOS partition on /dev/hdc1 and /dev/hdd1 (with ext2 Linux partitions on the rest of hdc and hdd). If I want to boot DOS I just use a boot floppy. I have a spare 3GB hard drive I'm thinking of installing on hdc, and I'd like to do something like this: 500MB DOS FAT16 500MB DOS FAT16 (optional) 600MB Win95 modified FAT16? 600MB Win98 FAT32? 800MB Linux ext2 I'd like to be able to boot into DOS, Win95 and Win98. I'm just wondering how practical that is.Can W95 and W98 coexist on the same disk in diferent partitions and still both be bootable?If not, any suggestion on which is the better one to install?And, would I need to lose one of the DOS partitions so as not to exceed the allowable number? There are plenty of multiboot HOWTOs, but they all seem to be WinNT + something.I can't find a W95 + W98.Before I start trying to figure out the details, I'd just like to know if I'm chasing an impossibility. Incidentally, I'd probably sit the disk in my old 75MHz 'spare' computer to do the installs so I don't risk munging my Debian system.When it's all set up, I'll pop it into my No 1 Linuxbox and set about tuning GRUB. And, no, I'm not going to let those Windoze partitions anywhere near the modem. ;)No email, no browser. Any internet stuff goes through Debian. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windoze multiboot etc.
On Thursday 11 September 2003 10:32, David Palmer wrote: > On Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 12:07:08AM +1200, cr wrote: > > This may seem an odd place to ask this, but I'll bet some of the folks on > > this list know more about the technicalities of booting Windoze than > > Windoze users do ;) > > Sometimes I do it through the bios, but here's a newbie trick. > Install windows on the slave, and place your primary (primaries) in > removable racks. Then when you want to go into windows just unlock and > slightly pull out the rack, just enough to disconnect it, and windows > thinks it owns the c drive. > I quite like conning it. It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside. > Regards, > > David. Well, I don't run to removable racks, though I do own four hard drives (all of 2 - 3 GB each) of which up to three are in use at any one time. (CD-writer uses the other logical slot). They seem to get swapped fairly often - any time I try a new flavour of Linux, for example.Maybe I should look at getting a removable rack. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows multiboot (aaargh!)
On Thursday 11 September 2003 00:27, Kent West wrote: > >There are plenty of multiboot HOWTOs, but they all seem to be WinNT + > >something.I can't find a W95 + W98.Before I start trying to figure > >out the details, I'd just like to know if I'm chasing an impossibility. > >Incidentally, I'd probably sit the disk in my old 75MHz 'spare' computer > > to do the installs so I don't risk munging my Debian system.When > > it's all set up, I'll pop it into my No 1 Linuxbox and set about tuning > > GRUB. > > > >And, no, I'm not going to let those Windoze partitions anywhere near the > >modem. ;)No email, no browser. Any internet stuff goes through > > Debian. > > > >cr > > IIRC, DOS, Win95, and maybe Win98 insist on being on the first partition > on the "C:" drive. If you BIOS can trick these OSes into believing > /dev/hdcx is "C:", you're a bit closer. I don't want to say you're > "chasing an impossibility", but I think you'll have to come up with > several kludges to make it work. Yes, I know. I've read the various multi-boot HOWTOs, which tell how to trick Windows with kludges, but they're all NT+95+Linux, or NT+98+Linux, etcI couldn't find anything that confirmed 95 and 98 can co-exist. It now seems this can be done. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows multiboot (aaargh!)
On Thursday 11 September 2003 00:15, John covici wrote: > I am pretty sure windows in general always wants to be the first > partition on a given drive and even if I am wrong about that you > can't have more than one boot partition per drive -- also make sure > your machine will boot from the third drive. > > Also, you should not do the install on a separate box, windows needs > to know the hardware it is going to encounter during the install. That's a point. Though the only 'different' thing between the two is probably the video drivers. My CD-writer on this box is a LG/Goldstar which Linux at least treats like a generic CD-ROM. But what I will do (if I install on this box) is unplug my /hda drive first so Windows can't munge my Debian setup. > You might consider vmware -- seems much safer to me for what you want. Isn't that commercial?(OK, I know, Windoze is, but I already have the Windoze CDs). I don't mind if the install fails at first, and I have to fiddle around a bit - it won't munge any data or anything. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows multiboot (aaargh!)
On Thursday 11 September 2003 09:38, Pigeon wrote: > On Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 07:27:23AM -0500, Kent West wrote: > > cr wrote: > > >This may seem an odd place to ask this, but I'll bet some of the folks > > > on this list know more about the technicalities of booting Windoze than > > > Windoze users do ;) > > > > > >I'd like to add a multi-boot DOS + Win95/98 hard drive to my Linuxbox. > > > > > >I currently have Deb 3.0 installed on /dev/hda, booting with GRUB, and > > > I have a 500MB DOS partition on /dev/hdc1 and /dev/hdd1 (with ext2 > > > Linux partitions on the rest of hdc and hdd). If I want to boot DOS > > > I just use a boot floppy. > > > > > >I have a spare 3GB hard drive I'm thinking of installing on hdc, and I'd > > >like to do something like this: > > > > > >500MB DOS FAT16 > > >500MB DOS FAT16 (optional) > > >600MB Win95 modified FAT16? > > >600MB Win98 FAT32? > > >800MB Linux ext2 > > > > > >I'd like to be able to boot into DOS, Win95 and Win98. > > > > > >I'm just wondering how practical that is.Can W95 and W98 coexist on > > >the same disk in diferent partitions and still both be bootable?If > > >not, any suggestion on which is the better one to install?And, would > > > I need to lose one of the DOS partitions so as not to exceed the > > > allowable number? > > > > > >There are plenty of multiboot HOWTOs, but they all seem to be WinNT + > > >something.I can't find a W95 + W98.Before I start trying to > > > figure out the details, I'd just like to know if I'm chasing an > > > impossibility. Incidentally, I'd probably sit the disk in my old 75MHz > > > 'spare' computer to do the installs so I don't risk munging my Debian > > > system.When it's all set up, I'll pop it into my No 1 Linuxbox and > > > set about tuning GRUB. > > > > > >And, no, I'm not going to let those Windoze partitions anywhere near the > > >modem. ;)No email, no browser. Any internet stuff goes through > > >Debian. > > >cr > > > > IIRC, DOS, Win95, and maybe Win98 insist on being on the first partition > > on the "C:" drive. > > They don't insist on being the first partition. Nor is it true that > you can only have one primary DOS partition: it's just that DOS FDISK > won't let you create more than one. > > > If you BIOS can trick these OSes into believing > > /dev/hdcx is "C:", you're a bit closer. I don't want to say you're > > "chasing an impossibility", but I think you'll have to come up with > > several kludges to make it work. > > This is true. > > The selection between "boot Debian" and "boot Microsoft" is easy. Use > your BIOS Setup to tell the BIOS that /dev/hda doesn't exist. Assuming > that /dev/hdb doesn't exist / is a CD-ROM / doesn't have an MBR, the > BIOS will then try and boot from /dev/hdc. (Well, they do when I've > tried it.) Well, either I'll try setting the drive up in my spare PC (and risk having to change the video drivers), or I'll try it in this PC and unplug /hda while I'm doing it just to be double-safe.Don't want M$ overwriting Debian. :) > The selection between which Microsoft OS you want to boot involves a > bit of kludgery to set up and a bit of kludgery to use. This is what > I'd do: > > To set up: > > - Make a DOS boot floppy with FDISK and FORMAT on, and a Linux boot > floppy with cfdisk on. > - Boot DOS, and partition /dev/hdc with one 500MB primary DOS > partition (for your DOS boot partition), no other partitions. > - Boot Linux, and use cfdisk to change the partition type of that > partition to something DOS doesn't recognise. > - Boot DOS, and add a 600MB primary DOS partition for your Win95 boot > partition. > - Boot Linux, and use cfdisk to change the partition type of the new > partition to something DOS doesn't recognise. > - Boot DOS, and add a 600MB primary DOS partition for your Win98 boot > drive. (You can convert it to FAT32 later from within Win98.) Then > add an extended partition and create your "optional" 500MB DOS > partition inside it. > - Boot Linux, and add your 800MB ext2 partition in the extended > partition. Then change the partition types of the first two > partitions back to primary DOS. Set the "bootable" flag on one of > them. >
Re: Windows multiboot (aaargh!)
On Thursday 11 September 2003 08:30, Carel Fellinger wrote: > On Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 12:07:08AM +1200, cr wrote: > > This may seem an odd place to ask this, but I'll bet some of the folks on > > this list know more about the technicalities of booting Windoze than > > Windoze users do ;) > > I know next to nothing about Windows and prefer to keep it like that:), > but as I've kids that, like kids like, like to play games, I've been > forced to atleast find out how play this trick. (example at the end) > > From experience, Win95/98 needs to be on the first drive, needs to be > in a bootable primary partition which needs to be the only/first primary > partition. On the first drive? I only ask because DOS, at least, ignores any drives it can't recognise (so it ignores my ext2 in /dev/hda and my CD-ROM in hdb and regards my /hdc1 as C: and my /hdd1 as D:). But Windows may be more picky. > Don't despair, GRUB is perfectly capable of _hiding_ specific partitions > in the bootprocess, and many(?) BIOSses allow to swap the order of drives. Or I can just physically swap them over.My machine usually has its covers off... > > So create on the disk of choice enough primary partitons, use GRUBS to > hide all but one, swap the BIOS drive order such that the drive of > choice seems to be the first one, and all is swell. > > Well it should be, but experience has learned me otherwise:( > The biggest problem being ghost/phantom drives appearing under windows. > > I used to think it was related to windows weared way of determining to > use or not to use lineair addressing mode on large drives, and hence > its inability to obey the partitioning scheme used. So I was very > carefull to partition disks in such a way that the 1024 cylinder (this > being one of the clues windows uses) felt on a partition boundary. > > But nowadays I think that what's really needed is to take care that all > windows partitions have there first sector(s?) cleaned prior to letting > windows format those, as it seems that windows prefers the partitioning > information it finds in that(those) first sector(s) to the real partition > table, and what is worst, there is a bootstrap problem as windows format > prog assumes that info is valid and hence will use it unless it's cleared. Thanks, I'll bear that in mind. > As far as I know the 1024 cylinder thing is still very much relevant > to Win95 as wel as chosing the right partition type, so probably the > safest is to partition carefully. And be warned, I've lost linux > partitions (on my fathers machine thanks to my sister) using windows > tools to repartition, reformat and reinstall windows:( --this was > prior to me being very carefull to wipe the first sector, so maybe it > works better now. Anyway, i've always used linux tools to do the > partitioning, the only way for me to be able to _predict_ the end > result-- > > > ... > > > I'd like to be able to boot into DOS, Win95 and Win98. > > ... > > > I'm just wondering how practical that is.Can W95 and W98 coexist on > > the same disk in diferent partitions and still both be bootable?If > > not, any > > Yes, that's what I've been doing for years. Though the safest thing > would be to have seperate disks for each windows install and use the > BIOS capability to swap drives, you could do like I do (and pray:). > > > My disks lookes like: > > # two bootable windows partitions on hda > # one bootable windows partition on hdb > > > My /boot/grub/menu.lst lookes like: > > title Windows from second disc > map (hd0) (hd1) > map (hd1) (hd0) > root(hd1,0) > makeactive > chainloader +1 > > > title Win95 from first disc second partition > hide(hd0,0) > unhide (hd0,1) > root(hd0,1) > makeactive > chainloader +1 > > > title Win98 from first disc first partition > unhide (hd0,0) > hide(hd0,1) > root(hd0,0) > makeactive > chainloader +1 Many thanks for that!I was wondering if it was practical, most of the Windows 95/98 dual-boot 'howtos' I've found seem to put 95 and 98 in different directories on the same partition. Which I could do, but keeping them separate and using GRUB as you've shown there seems to be tidier. Many thanks for confirming it's possible. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: East Asian O/S
On Thursday 11 September 2003 12:28, csj wrote: > > > I think it makes more sense for governments to use the less > > > restrictively licensed *BSDs as a base. This would allow the > > > embedding of spyware into the OS to help prevent it from > > > being used for terroristic, anarchistic and > > > copyright-infringing activities. > > > > Well, it might make more sense for totalitarian governents, > > yes. :( > > Just because you're a totalitarian government doesn't mean you > can't use free software. Oh, quite. I wasn't referring to that, but to the suggestion that a government might want to put spyware into the OS. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: East Asian O/S
On Friday 12 September 2003 08:28, Pigeon wrote: > > > The three countries concerned are mainland China, Korea, and > > > Japan. Mainland China developed its' own linux programme > > > sometime ago called Red Flag Linux, and the new distro is to be > > > Linux based. Regards, > > > > I think it makes more sense for governments to use the less > > restrictively licensed *BSDs as a base. This would allow the > > embedding of spyware into the OS to help prevent it from being > > used for terroristic, anarchistic and copyright-infringing > > activities. > > I get the feeling that the sort of government that was going to do > this might not give a rat's ass about the licensing. They'd be more > concerned about how to stop people upgrading to eg. spyware-free > security-patched cryptographically-signed Debian packages. Considering the heat that the US has turned on China over illegal copying of software, it could very well be that the Chinese just decided to use an operating system that *didn't* require either piracy or the payment of huge and extortionate sums to an American corporation.;) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows multiboot (aaargh!)
On Friday 12 September 2003 03:37, Pigeon wrote: > > > > Don't despair, GRUB is perfectly capable of _hiding_ specific > > > partitions in the bootprocess, and many(?) BIOSses allow to swap the > > > order of drives. > > > > Or I can just physically swap them over.My machine usually has its > > covers off... > > ...but if you do this too often, you'll get weak contact springs in > the connector and possibly broken strands in the cable adjacent to the > connector if your connectors don't have those useful finger loops on > them. Hence really annoying intermittent faults. Yes, I agree, swapping drives is best reserved for installs or changes in system configuration, not just booting into a different OS. Even though I do also have a box full of spare HD cables. :) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows multiboot (aaargh!)
and E: just gives a "Invalid media type reading drive E" - which is as it should be since I can't format it. I suppose this is some odd consequence of the weird way DOS numbers partitions, but fdisk and COMMAND.COM obviously implement it differently.) Anyway, the glitch that DOS hits (and Linux doesn't) appears to be at around 879MB from the start of the physical drive, if I believe Format's "63%" figure. Only fix I can see is to make it a Linux partition. I think this means fitting three DOS/Win partitions in before that, (if I want them to be primary and hence bootable), which would make them very small indeed. Some thought is indicated. I may save this drive for Linux use (with which it works fine) and pick up another drive for my experiments. > > To switch between booting different OSes, two methods are possible: > > - (Easy, but unsmooth) Use Norton Utilities (for DOS) to edit the > partition table and set the "bootable" flag on the partition for the > OS you want to boot. From within Win95/98, set the shortcut to > Norton to "run in MS-DOS mode". > - (Not so easy, but smoother) write a program to set the appropriate > "bootable" flag as you instruct and then reboot. For example, you > could have it accept as a command-line parameter the OS you want to > switch to, and then "reboot 95" or "reboot 98" from within DOS, or > in 95/98 set a couple of shortcuts with the appropriate command-line > parameter and "run in MS-DOS mode". Or, could I just use Linux fdisk? (much snippage) > It is also possible to boot Linux from within DOS/Windoze using > LOADLIN.EXE (again "run in MS-DOS mode") without actually rebooting. I was thinking of trying that later, though I was unsure about how stable it might be.But quite by chance, I found that the install for the DOS zip version of Tom's Root Boot does exactly that - when unzipped (in DOS), running 'install.bat' immediately uses loadlin to start its own little Linux system to create the floppy.And it *all*, Linux system plus floppy contents plus HTML faq, comes in a 2.2MB zip file.Tom must be a fanatic at squeezing the maximum stuff into the tiniest package. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows multiboot (aaargh!)
On Sunday 14 September 2003 16:53, Jacob Anawalt wrote: > Pigeon wrote: > > [snip] > > >Conclusion: DOS can't cope with the presence of non-DOS extended > >partitions. How dead and chewed. > > > >So it seems that the options are something like: > > > >- don't have a Linux partition on that drive at all > >- don't have your second DOS partition, so there can be room for the > > ext2 partition to be a primary partition > >- have two extended partitions, both DOS, and use umsdos in one of them > > > >It also seems I'd misremembered how the drive letters get allocated; > >as you found out, the bootable primary partition is C:, the extended > >DOS partition(s) come next and after them the other primary DOS > >partitions. > > [snip] > > If you don't have to use the same disk for DOS and Linux, I second the > first point. Once upon a time I had win98 on hda1(first primary > partition), a second FAT32 on hda2 (second primary) and / on hda3 (third > primary). The FAT32 partitions were made with the windows FDISK from the > 98 install CD. The ext2 / (this was a while ago) was made with Linux > fdisk. One day while installing a popular windows game (which is why I > have the OS) onto the second FAT32 partition and it crashed in the > middle of the install. Oh well I thought. Stupid MS, I'll go play > FreeCiv in Linux, but Linux wouldn't boot. Booting from a rescue disk I > found that hda3's contents were garbage. [EMAIL PROTECTED]@*!! > > Oh well. I had two disks anyway and /usr/local and /home were on the > second hard disk. I really wasn't using /usr/local with > built-from-source programs, so it became /. > That's a good point. You may have noticed, in my initial post, I did not specify making the Linux partition bootable. Currently, I have my bootable Linux on /hda, on /hdc and /hdd I have one DOS partition each and the rest Linux data partitions.So far I've never had any trouble with DOS - presumably it can handle one partition per drive without getting confused ;) My proposed multi-OS drive would have had the Linux partition (/hdc6 or whatever) as a data partition. Though I didn't say so, I'm intending to use it for temporary storage of CD images produced by mkisofs for writing to CD. It's handy to have a fixed 'empty' space of the required size that won't get filled up with junk.So if DOS/Windows goes and writes all over it, it shouldn't destroy anything that I can't easily replace. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows multiboot (aaargh!)
On Sunday 14 September 2003 12:39, Pigeon wrote: > On Sat, Sep 13, 2003 at 04:33:22PM +1200, cr wrote: > > On Thursday 11 September 2003 09:38, Pigeon wrote: > > > > (preliminaries snipped) > > The Linux boot floppy is a bit more tricky.I thought I'd better first > > delete the existing Linux partitons on the drive using cfdisk rather than > > DOS fdisk. So I tried adding cfdisk to a spare Debian Woody boot > > floppy, but it got 'kernel panic' when run.Tried same with a RH boot > > floppy and it worked OK (I think the hard drive had RH7.3 on it, IIRC), > > but got 'kernel panic' when I used it after wiping the hard drive. > > Obviously Deb and RH boot floppies are just intended for booting the > > system on the hard drive. > > Dunno about RH; the Debian one seems to want you to supply it with a > root filesystem from somewhere, either your existing installation or a > second floppy. I'd say RH does exactly the same. It'd be nice to have a self-contained floppy with just the basic componenets needed to boot a Linux system, so there's room to add a few utilties of ones choice.I've done that with my DOS floppy.But reading the HOWTOs, it seems that creating a Linux boot disk is a rather more complex procedure. I guess the workaround is to use one of the pre-made disks like tomsrtbt, and just put my own utilities on a floppy that I can mount afterwards.At least, unlike DOS-booted-from-a-floppy, I imagine the Linux rescue systems don't constantly nag you to "Insert disk with COMMAND.COM in Drive A:" or whatever the Linux equivalent would be ;) > For blanking things, I use dd; to zap the whole MBR > > dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hdx bs=512 count=1 > > and for just the partition table > > dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hdx bs=1 seek=446 count=64 > > I tried Googling for how to create a boot floppy, what I found was > > several rescue disks - Tomsrtbt, RIP and Leka - all of which downloaded > > quite nicely, installed themselves onto floppies exactly as per > > instructions, and work very well. They all have fdisk (but not cfdisk). > > I can recommend them to anyone reading this, as a useful tool to keep > > handy.But as they're so compressed I can't put anything extra on > > them. I suppose I could put cfdisk on another floppy and run it from > > that after Toms/RIP/Leka are running in RAM. > > The man page for fdisk says it's basically "a buggy program that does > fuzzy things but happens to produce reasonable results", and > recommends using cfdisk instead. > > For a boot floppy with cfdisk on it I use the resc1440.bin boot floppy > image off the Debian Slink installation CD. Unlike the Woody boot > image, it doesn't require a root filesystem supplied from another disk. I had a look on my various Linux CD's, and a look at Debian.org, but I couldn't find it. OTOH I may have missed it.I'll try putting cfdisk on a floppy and running it from that, after booting with a rescue disk. Umm, just tried, with Leka's system running and a DOS floppy in the drive. mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /floppy mounting /dev/fd0 on /floppy failed: no such device But it's got a /dev/fd0 there, I checked.I'm probably forgetting something important. Ah well, fdisk it is;) > > > - Boot DOS, and partition /dev/hdc with one 500MB primary DOS > > > partition (for your DOS boot partition), no other partitions. > > > - Boot Linux, and use cfdisk to change the partition type of that > > > partition to something DOS doesn't recognise. > > > > As a matter of interest, fdisk doesn't have 'DOS' or 'ext2' in its list > > of filetypes - I assume 'FAT16' and 'Linux' are the equivalents. > > This would seem to be the case. The numeric IDs are 06 and 83. > > > > > Some thought is indicated. I may save this drive for Linux use (with > > which it works fine) and pick up another drive for my experiments. > > This is most unexpected... I grabbed a spare PC and HD from my latest > dumpster-diving expedition and experimented. The HD was only 2 gig, so > I reduced all the partition sizes by a third. Got the same result... > FDISK showing partitions swapped, and the second partition starts > "trying to recover allocation unit xxx" part way through where x >= > 25000 or so. Umm, but does this weird behaviour start at the same distance into the physical drive, or the same distance into the second partition, or the same percentage in? > Tried changing the procedure slightly - formatted the DOS partitions > immediate
Re: Windows multiboot (aaargh!)
On Sunday 14 September 2003 23:40, Robert Storey wrote: > On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:23:47 +1200 > > cr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I thought DOS could only handle partitions of up to ~500MB (512? > > 528?). I must be wrong, it happily formatted 600MB, at least for > > partition 3. > > DOS (that is, FAT16) can handle partitions up to two gigabytes in size. > And you can have four of them, so eight gigs can be used. But as I > understand it, when you get to that size a lot of space gets wasted > (very inefficient block size, or something like that). > > > But anyway, this is the revised scheme: > > 1 Pri DOS 500MBBootableDOS6.22 > > 2 Pri DOS 600MB W95 > > 3 Pri DOS 600MB W98 > > 4 Extended 5 DOS 500MB > > 6 DOS 800MB > > FWIW, under Linux you'll have to live with the same fudge - three > primary partitions maximum, and one extended partitions with numberous > (I think 64 is the max) logical partitions. This is a limitation of the > Intel architecture. Yes, I realise that, having set up quite a number of 'em.But Linux doesn't seem to mind the odd DOS partition here and there, whereas DOS throws a wobbly (in the above example) when formatting Partition 2, if Partition 6 is non-DOS. Very weird, but it did it for me, it did it for Pigeon. > > > > Or, could I just use Linux fdisk? > > You'll probably find cfdisk to be much easier to use. Yes, I agree, but all the rescue disks I've tried (tomsrtbt, RIP and Leka) have fdisk on 'em. > > > Well, I've found that GRUB is extremely benign (once sorted). It > > took me a > > Take a look at this excellent article if you want to install Grub: > > http://www2.linuxjournal.com/lj-issues/issue85/4622.html > > regards, > Robert Thanks! In fact, I'm now running GRUB on my main Linux drive, /hda, and I'm intending to modify it to boot the DOS/Win drive which I'll put into the system as /hdc. It should just need an addition to its kernel list (or so I hope). But anyway I've saved the article. Actually, I just took a look, and what was the first thing I saw but a mention of FDISK /MBR to uninstall Grub - just what I was wanting to do on this drive. How opportune!:) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows multiboot (aaargh!)
On Monday 15 September 2003 18:52, Karsten M. Self wrote: > on Sun, Sep 14, 2003 at 09:23:47PM +1200, cr ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > It'd be nice to have a self-contained floppy with just the basic > > componenets needed to boot a Linux system, so there's room to add a > > few utilties of ones choice.I've done that with my DOS floppy. > > But reading the HOWTOs, it seems that creating a Linux boot disk is a > > rather more complex procedure. > > Trinux aims in this general direction. The basic boot system is 2-3 > floppies, with the 2nd and later disks being used to add additional > utilities to the system. > > Of course, if you start with a chroot install, you can use debootstrap > and add as many Debian utilities as you want ;-) > > For most of us, a bootable CDROM is a more viable option. I don't know > if USB pen drives are bootable, but with 120-256 MiB RAM, these would be > sufficiently large to be quite useable systems. One issue here is the > number of read-write cycles the systems allow. What I was thinking of, solely for the purposes of quick swapping between DOS and Linux, was a floppy with an absolutely minimal kernel on it, to which I could add the one app I really wanted - cfdisk - just to tweak the partition types.As it is, RIP boots reasonably quickly and has fdisk which will do. However, I'll have a Google for Trinux and check it out. > > I guess the workaround is to use one of the pre-made disks like tomsrtbt, > > and just put my own utilities on a floppy that I can mount afterwards. > > At least, unlike DOS-booted-from-a-floppy, I imagine the Linux rescue > > systems don't constantly nag you to "Insert disk with COMMAND.COM in > > Drive A:" or whatever the Linux equivalent would be ;) > > No, you won't be prompted to insert disks, most (all, AFAIK) run in > RAMdisks. Running live from floppy is simply too slow. Also of course, the images on all the rescue disks are much compressed and unpack into far more space in the RAMdisk. DOS being a much smaller and more limited OS, can easily be fitted onto a boot floppy. But because of that, the disks are full and I can't add anything else to them. > This limits you to 16 RAMdisks of 4096 KiB each, however. The updated > romfs actually resizes dynamically if I understand correctly (and > probably don't). > > > Peace. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows multiboot (aaargh!)
On Monday 15 September 2003 09:20, Pigeon wrote: > On Sun, Sep 14, 2003 at 09:23:47PM +1200, cr wrote: > > On Sunday 14 September 2003 12:39, Pigeon wrote: > > > On Sat, Sep 13, 2003 at 04:33:22PM +1200, cr wrote: > > > > It'd be nice to have a self-contained floppy with just the basic > > componenets needed to boot a Linux system, so there's room to add a few > > utilties of ones choice.I've done that with my DOS floppy.But > > reading the HOWTOs, it seems that creating a Linux boot disk is a rather > > more complex procedure. > > And the kernel takes up half the disk, so there's less space for the > utils. Yes, quite, but I really only wanted to put cfdisk on it.Never mind. Since I'm now only using fdisk as a means of hiding and unhiding partitions from DOS, I guess it should manage that okay. > CD-ROMs are easier, it seems (if the box can boot them) - I've even > made a bootable Linux CD in Windoze - a mate was playing with his new > Nero and wanted to try out the facility for making bootable CDs, so we > fed it a Linux boot floppy to get its boot image from and it worked > fine! > > > I guess the workaround is to use one of the pre-made disks like tomsrtbt, > > and just put my own utilities on a floppy that I can mount afterwards. > > At least, unlike DOS-booted-from-a-floppy, I imagine the Linux rescue > > systems don't constantly nag you to "Insert disk with COMMAND.COM in > > Drive A:" or whatever the Linux equivalent would be ;) > > > > Umm, just tried, with Leka's system running and a DOS floppy in the > > drive. mount -t msdos /dev/fd0 /floppy > > mounting /dev/fd0 on /floppy failed: no such device > > But it's got a /dev/fd0 there, I checked.I'm probably forgetting > > something important. Ah well, fdisk it is;) > > My shot in the dark would be to wonder if, to save space, this floppy > uses an old/small version of mount that reports "no such device" where > one would expect "mount point xxx does not exist", and there's no > /floppy? Thought of that. Made a /floppy. Still no change. > > > For a boot floppy with cfdisk on it I use the resc1440.bin boot floppy > > > image off the Debian Slink installation CD. Unlike the Woody boot > > > image, it doesn't require a root filesystem supplied from another disk. > > > > I had a look on my various Linux CD's, and a look at Debian.org, but I > > couldn't find it. OTOH I may have missed it.I'll try putting cfdisk > > on a floppy and running it from that, after booting with a rescue disk. > > I'd have thought it'd be in the archives somewhere, but maybe you have > to download the .iso and pull it out of that... I could always email > you a copy. Would you object to receiving a 1.4 meg email? I think it would clog my mailbox, actually. Thanks for the offer.But the rescue disks I've got seem to do what I need for now. > > > > This is most unexpected... I grabbed a spare PC and HD from my latest > > > dumpster-diving expedition and experimented. The HD was only 2 gig, so > > > I reduced all the partition sizes by a third. Got the same result... > > > FDISK showing partitions swapped, and the second partition starts > > > "trying to recover allocation unit xxx" part way through where x >= > > > 25000 or so. > > > > Umm, but does this weird behaviour start at the same distance into the > > physical drive, or the same distance into the second partition, or the > > same percentage in? > > The same (more or less) number of allocation units into the second > partition. Not that it really matters, I think; it's a symptom of DOS > misbehaving, not the drive, and the important consideration seems to > be whether it happens rather than the precise details of how it > happens, unless we intend to hack DOS to cure it :-) Agreed, entirely. Just note it as another bug in DOS :) > > > Conclusion: DOS can't cope with the presence of non-DOS extended > > > partitions. How dead and chewed. > > > > > > So it seems that the options are something like: > > > > > > - don't have a Linux partition on that drive at all > > > - don't have your second DOS partition, so there can be room for the > > > ext2 partition to be a primary partition > > > - have two extended partitions, both DOS, and use umsdos in one of them > > > > Let me see - umsdos (and support for it is in my kernel, I just checked) > > will allow long filenames to be used *an
Re: Windows multiboot (aaargh!)
On Tuesday 16 September 2003 12:19, Karsten M. Self wrote: (much snippage for bandwidth) > > What I was thinking of, solely for the purposes of quick swapping > > between DOS and Linux, was a floppy with an absolutely minimal kernel > > on it, to which I could add the one app I really wanted - cfdisk - > > just to tweak the partition types.As it is, RIP boots reasonably > > quickly and has fdisk which will do. > > There's a serious difference between GNU/Linux and DOS on size here. > > For DOS, you need the "kernel" (command.com) and statically linked > executables. This combination is tiny, and you can pack a pretty > impressive array of tools onto a single floppy disk. > > For GNU/Linux, you need: > > - The kernel. > - Standard libraries (/lib). > - init > - control files (/etc) > - Kernel modules > - A shell > - Binaries (/bin, /sbin) > > By the time you get to all of this, it's hard to pack it all onto a > single 1.4 MiB floppy. In fact, Tom's Root Boot doesn't fit on a 1.4 > MiB disk, it formats the floppy to 1.7 MiB. Even then, it's using > stripped versions of many utilities, and busybox (a sort of all-in-one > utility application), a stripped-down shell (ash), and other tricks. > And its still a pretty minimal system. But it works and it's useful. Yes, I know that, and Tom's boasts that it's the most you can possibly get on a floppy. I've made one and it works. But what I wanted for quick swapping was just a floppy with cfdisk on it (plus the minimum necessary to boot it). OK, this may not be easy to do. > Again, a floppy is a bit thin for what you have in mind. I'd strongly > recommend using the LNX-BBC (shell out to the EFF for one, and do a good > deed as well as a favor for yourself). I'll check it out. > > Also of course, the images on all the rescue disks are much compressed > > and unpack into far more space in the RAMdisk. DOS being a much smaller > > and more limited OS, can easily be fitted onto a boot floppy. > > > > But because of that, the disks are full and I can't add anything else to > > them. > > > > I guess I don't expect anyone to atually research stuff before they make > statements like this anymore > > http://www.toms.net/rb/tomsrtbt.FAQ > > 7) Customizing > (snip) Thanks, I've archived that for reference. Actually, I *did* notice that tomsrtbt is customizable, just that the thought of customizing a 82-track 1.7MB floppy full of compressed stuff and Busybox seemed a little like overkill for the quick'n'dirty all-I-want-is-cfdisk floppy that I had in mind. Regards cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows multiboot (aaargh!)
On Monday 15 September 2003 09:20, Pigeon wrote: > > But anyway, this is the revised scheme: > > 1 Pri DOS 500MBBootableDOS6.22 > > 2 Pri DOS 600MB W95 > > 3 Pri DOS 600MB W98 > > 4 Extended 5 DOS 500MB > > 6 DOS 800MB > > > > I'll see how it goes. > > > > 3 may get converted to FAT32 later. > > Should go OK, I'd think... that worked OK for me. In case y'all thought I'd died... creating each partition with DOS FDISK, then hiding it by changing it to 'ext2' with linux fdisk before creating the next one with DOS, worked like a charm. As did FORMAT : /u /son each partition (I left the /S off the extended partitions). DOS installed fine on partition 1 (what's to install? ;) Then I changed the active partition to 2 with FDISK as per plan. But neither Win95 nor Win98 would install on Partition 2.They both siezed shortly after the 'License Agreement' stage, and on rebooting displayed a message about disabling the virus checker (*what* virus checker?) This happened even when I hid all other partitions - 1, 3, 5 & 6 - by changing them to ext2 with Linux fdisk. Maybe I'm missing something. I think some further reading of the multiboot howtos (including Windows ones!) is indicated. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows multiboot (aaargh!)
On Thursday 18 September 2003 10:09, Pigeon wrote: > On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 12:12:02AM +1200, cr wrote: > > > > But neither Win95 nor Win98 would install on Partition 2.They both > > siezed shortly after the 'License Agreement' stage, and on rebooting > > displayed a message about disabling the virus checker (*what* virus > > checker?) > > In the BIOS? Oh, right.I think I'll just declare myself a Clue Free Zone. :( I was misled by the reference in the error message to cancelling any virus checkers in Config.sys or Autoexec.bat, I completely missed its mention of the BIOS. of course, after DOS FORMAT's bizarre behaviour in the vicinity of a non-DOS extended partition, I guess I was expecting M$'s error messages to mean almost anything other than what they actually said ;) > > Or does "*what* virus checker" imply that you've already turned this > off? No, it just means I have installed no virus checkers. Other than the one in the BIOS which I'd completely forgotten. OK, turned it off, now everything installs just fine. D'you suppose I can plead advancing senility? ;) Next step, see if I can boot the whole thing with GRUB cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows multiboot (aaargh!)
On Friday 19 September 2003 21:12, cr wrote: (Finally got DOS, w95 and w98 each installed in their own partitions). > > Next step, see if I can boot the whole thing with GRUB.... > > cr Yep, GRUB booted fine, DOS, w95 and w98. I just made a Grub boot floppy as instructed in the Howtos, made a C:\BOOT\GRUB directory in the DOS partition, copied the stage1 and stage 2 off the floppy into it, made a menu.lst with a DOS text editor, and it all worked. First time round it squawked about the lack of a Stage1.5, but then it decided to work anyway. So now I have a multiboot DOS / w95 / w98 (and no Linux!) PC. It wasn't really necessary to set up Grub booting for it, since it's going to become a second drive in my Linux box, but I thought I'd try the experiment. Next step is just to swap the hard drive into my Linux box and modify the Grub menu.lst on my primary Linux drive to boot it. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MS mail bombs
On Sunday 21 September 2003 14:18, Carla Schroder wrote: > On Saturday 20 September 2003 2:27 pm, Ron Johnson wrote: > > > The other way is a neat little trick I use on my ISP account- limit > > > the size of messages to download, I limit them to 2000 bytes. You can > > > try different sizes to see what works. Then when I check mail a popup > > > window appears showing a list of messages, with subject lines and the > > > senders of any messages bigger than 2000 bytes. Then I can either leave > > > them on the server, delete them, or download them. I don't know if all > > > mail clients do this, it's worth checking out. I have that neat trick in use on my 'other PC', an old Acorn A5000 with an antique program called 'Popstar'.It's the only thing that makes my account useable with a 9600 modem when a Klez virus arrives with a 100K+ file attachment in tow > > > > Well that's sweet. > > > > I see that you use KMail. Is it KMail that gives you this capability? > > Yes, and I'm pretty sure Evolution, Outlook, eudora, and other major mail > clients can do it too. I love Kmail, it's extremely configurable and > reliable. I love Kmail too, but I'm running 1.3.2 (the version that comes with Woody) and I'm not sure it offers that facility.I believe the newest version does, but when I installed it briefly (with RedHat 9, before I switched to Debian) it warned me that deleted messages really were deleted, they don't go to Trash anymore. If that's true, I couldn't live with that, since I'm forever fishing messages back out of Trash for another look. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why such volume with W32/Swen@MM?
On Monday 22 September 2003 02:42, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Sun, Sep 21, 2003 at 10:03:41AM +0100, Clive Menzies wrote: > > I've just received one with what looks like all the debian-powerpc list > > addresses in the "To" header. So it does look as though they are > > harvesting the Debian lists. > > Mine have had mostly a single To: address. > > The virus descriptions I've read says it uses email addresses found on > the infected machine. What I find odd (suspect? ;) is that so many > Windows machines happen to have so many addresses for people that are > typically non-windows users.. In other words, the places I post consist > of mostly unix/linux users, but it seems like I'm getting mail from a > lot of different Windows users. > > To be cynical, a Windows virus would be a good way to attack (with mail > volume) non-windows users. > > My wife wants to know *why* people write viruses... Yeah, the latest version of Outlook Express has hidden code that trawls the Linux lists for addresses, then stashes them carefully but invisibly in its address book as a free gift for the next email virus that comes along ;) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: RH and Debian brothers now?
On Wednesday 24 September 2003 11:03, Paul E Condon wrote: > > RedHat's business model is moving toward support services for enterprises > and away from sale of boxed sets of CDs. I don't think it makes much > sense for them to continue work on the RedHat Linux distribution, but I > can see why they might want to pretend to do so. Their corporate customers > probably wouldn't notice if RedHat started loading Debian onto the > corporate computers, so long as Red Hat, the company, continued to provide > support. > > I think they would save themselves a lot of head aches if they did move to > Debian. This collective support of the RedHat distribution, without selling > CDs looks to me like Debian done badly. It will wither away, and the people > will drift into the Debian community. Just so long as RH apply their excellent installer to Debian;) cr ... having just recovered from another screaming encounter with dselect. If I ever have to face that Debian installer again I'll... I'll... ... just let it do what it bloody well wants to and sort it all out later with Kpackage, I think.:( -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MS mail bombs
On Wednesday 24 September 2003 12:38, Vineet Kumar wrote: > * cr ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030920 20:47]: > > I love Kmail too, but I'm running 1.3.2 (the version that comes with > > Woody) and I'm not sure it offers that facility.I believe the newest > > version does, but when I installed it briefly (with RedHat 9, before I > > switched to Debian) it warned me that deleted messages really were > > deleted, they don't go to Trash anymore. If that's true, I couldn't > > live with that, since I'm forever fishing messages back out of Trash for > > another look. > > Well, isn't that the whole point? In order to get it into your trash > folder, you'd have to download it. If you're deleting before > downloading, it's not going to be in your trash folder! Oops, sorry, I didn't make myself clear. It's two quite separate cases. The messages I *don't* want to waste time downloading are 100K-sized Klezs and Sobigs. I want to delete them off the ISP's server.(And nobody sends me legitimate messages 100K in size anyway).That's why I would like the (rumoured) ability the latest Kmail has to do just that. I'm on a number of mailing lists and get a large number of legit messages daily, most of which are threads I'm not interested in, so I just delete them quite quickly. I don't mind doing that.Every now and then I hit Delete on a message then decide I do want to read it anyway, or occasionally, it's an important message I deleted by mistake. So (with this version of Kmail) I just go into Trash and retrieve it.I'd hate to lose such messages without chance of recovery. > One alternative is IMAP, in which the mail stays on the server and can > be moved into a different folder *on the server*. > > good times, > Vineet That sounds like an option, except I'm not sure what size my ISP allows my mailbox to be with all the spam around at the moment, it might be unfortunate if I forgot to empty 'Trash' for a couple of days. Regards cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows multiboot (aaargh!)
On Friday 19 September 2003 21:12, cr wrote: (DOS / Win95 / Win98 install) > Next step, see if I can boot the whole thing with GRUB > > cr "Progress" report... :) The 'rgh' was prophetic Well, it all booted happily with Grub while it was Drive 1 in my spare PC. So I put it in this box as /hdd, DOS would boot OK, but while I was faffing around with 'map' and 'hide' trying to make Windows behave consistently, *something* (whether me with Grub or Windows thinking it ought to be on Drive 1) went and munged /dev/hda5 where Debian lives. First I knew of it was 'kernel panic' when trying to boot Deb. I found that /hda1 ( /boot) was OK, but /hda5 (root) and /hda6( /swap) seemed to have got themselves lost in/hda2. And I *hadn't* backed up the mbr, nor did I have a record of the exact partition size Soo...I got a spare drive, installed Debian on it intending to see if I could salvage the old /hda5 somehow, and in the midst of my usual battle to the death with dselect I came across a little utility called gpart which guesses partitions. And, it works!OK, relying on it is a bit like driving your car into a power pole to check if the seat belts work, but still, I'm damn grateful to its author. Conclusions: 1. Back up the MBR and everything else, first! 2. Be very, very careful when using 'map' to swap drives around 3. It's probably safest to let DOS/Windows occupy Drive 1, where in its blinkered arrogance it thinks it belongs. Linux can sit somewhere else. We all know who's really in charge and it isn't Windows;) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: RH and Debian brothers now?
On Wednesday 24 September 2003 20:59, Colin Watson wrote: > On Wed, Sep 24, 2003 at 07:19:10PM +1200, cr wrote: > > ... having just recovered from another screaming encounter with dselect. > > If I ever have to face that Debian installer again I'll... I'll... > > dselect is not what people usually mean when they talk about the Debian > installer ... I appreciate that dselect is only part of the install process, albeit the largest part timewise if one uses it. What makes it frustrating is that, while working through the huge list of apps in dselect (which isn't the most intuitive piece of software ever written ;)it's only too easy to 'finish' with it prematurely**, at which point the installer asks 'Continue Y/n'with no 'Back' option to re-enter dselect.It's the combination of the two that's so unforgiving. ( ** The dselect package selection interface is confusing or even alarming to a new user. -man dselect :) I'd say dselect is probably okay for selecting a few apps.Working through an entire install list with it is a daunting task.As I said, next time (if there is a next time :) I'll just use tasksel, install what it selects, and then do the fine tuning afterwards with kpackage. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Anti-Spam ideas for usenet/list harvested email addresses
On Wednesday 24 September 2003 10:30, Kirk Strauser wrote: > Out of curiosity, are there *any* legitimate reasons at all why you'd want > to mail an uncompressed executable to someone? I can think of just one ...zip.exe (self-extracting), for someone who doesn't have zip. Well, you asked.:) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows multiboot (aaargh!)
On Friday 26 September 2003 04:04, Jacob Anawalt wrote: > > Conclusions: > > > > 1. Back up the MBR and everything else, first! > > 2. Be very, very careful when using 'map' to swap drives around > > I've used 'map' without any damages, but Win* didn't want to finish > booting using it. I actually came across a couple of threads in the bug-grub archive recounting remarkably similar problems to mine, caused to /dev/hda, apparently by 'map'. It's not inevitable, but quite possible, so far as I can tell. And yes, Windows did have trouble booting with 'map' on occasion. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: RH and Debian brothers now?
On Thursday 25 September 2003 03:24, Sebastian Kapfer wrote: > On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:40:14 +0200, cr wrote: > > ... having just recovered from another screaming encounter with dselect. > > One word: aptitude Thanks, I'll bear 'aptitude' in mind (though I tend to be lazy and use kpackage wherever possible), but dselect is the app written into the installer. dselect is actually not so bad on a one-app basis, it's trying to use it to select all the apps for an install where it rapidly gets old.;) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: RH and Debian brothers now?
On Friday 26 September 2003 21:52, Paul Johnson wrote: > On Sat, Sep 27, 2003 at 08:26:32AM +1200, cr wrote: > > I appreciate that dselect is only part of the install process, albeit the > > largest part timewise if one uses it. > > You don't have to, though. > > > What makes it frustrating is that, > > while working through the huge list of apps in dselect (which isn't the > > most intuitive piece of software ever written ;) > > No software is intuitive, it's all learned. The only intuitive > interface is the nipple, the rest is in your head. ... but some is more intuitive than others. I don't want to get sidetracked into a debate about 'intuitive' but I could, in the space of a few minutes, make a list of programs which are easy to use and others (which do the same thing) which are hard to use. I'll spare the list this digression though.;) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: RH and Debian brothers now?
On Friday 26 September 2003 22:03, Alex Malinovich wrote: > On Fri, 2003-09-26 at 16:31, cr wrote: (snip) > > dselect is actually not so bad on a one-app basis, it's trying to use it > > to select all the apps for an install where it rapidly gets old.;) > > Call me weird, but unless I'm only installing one or two packages (which > I'll just use apt-get to do) I think dselect is the best tool for the > job. It lets you see recommended and suggested packages while > automatically showing you which dependencies need to be installed. It's > also the only really "intuitive" package manager I've found. It took me > about 2 hours of playing with it to understand it. With respect, if it takes a couple of hours to understand, I wouldn't call that 'intuitive'. And the other thing is, I guess, that first encountering it during the Debian install process (and having to restart the whole process if you make a mistake) is the worst possible time to get to know any piece of software. But I won't belabour the point any further. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows multiboot (aaargh!)
On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 03:44, Kevin McKinley wrote: > On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:17:21 +1200 > > cr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Conclusions: > > > > 1. Back up the MBR and everything else, first! > > 2. Be very, very careful when using 'map' to swap drives around > > 3. It's probably safest to let DOS/Windows occupy Drive 1, where in its > > blinkered arrogance it thinks it belongs. Linux can sit somewhere else. > > I'm glad you were able to unscrew your system, but methinks you got lucky. > > Having a backup of the MBR is nice but not necessary, and it probably isn't > sufficient most of the time. What you really need is to be able to > re-create all the partition tables, and if you use an extended partition > not all that information will be in the MBR. > > To get a complete listing of partitions on all drives on your system do: > > fdisk -ul > partitions.030926 > > which saves the output in a text file. Save that text file somewhere other > than on the system you may need to restore (such as a floppy or USB memory > device). > > Should you need to recreate your partition table you can do so using fdisk > (not cfdisk and certainly not parted). > > Kevin Thanks for the advice, I've saved it in my 'Linux' mail directory just for reference. And yes, I think I did get lucky. (As it happens, I've just done a complete reinstall - not because of that, but because some hideous bug - don't know if it was a software thing, or a virus in my Windows partition (haven't had time to check yet), or a hardware fault - caused my system to switch off without warning, several times. After which my X configuration was quite severely munged for no reason I could figure out - it wasn't XF86config, which was unchanged. But at least I was able to save all my mail etc to a backup before I reinstalled.) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: pppd daemon dies
On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 20:52, Thomas Krennwallner wrote: > Hi! > > On Sat Sep 27, 2003 at 01:03:30AM -0800, J Y wrote: > > Sep 26 05:42:22 deblnx pppd[1178]: The remote system is required to > > authenticate itself Sep 26 05:42:22 deblnx pppd[1178]: but I couldn't > > find any suitable secret (password) for it to use to do so. Sep 26 > > 05:42:22 deblnx pppd[1178]: (None of the available passwords would let it > > use an IP address.) > > > > I went to kde/kppp site and read there that commenting out the > > 'auth' line in /etc/ppp/otions could be a fix but it wasn't. So I copied > > the /etc/ppp/options file from my SuSE distro but that didn't work > > either. > > Add following line to /etc/ppp/options: > > noauth > > So long > Thomas Or alternatively, after bringing up Kppp, go Setup -> [select account] -> Edit -> Customise pppd -> [type in ] noauth -> Add I've just had to do that, half an hour ago, and it works. (I just did a complete reinstall of Woody, for various reasons). Curiously though, /etc/ppp/options still has 'auth' in it, while /etc/ppp/peers/provider has 'noauth' (and already did, I think, even when I was having that 'drop-out' problem mentioned above). I don't know how the two inter-relate, but evidently what I did in Kppp has changed something else somewhere.I was intending to ask for some clarification on this list. Other question - what's the 'proper' way to give a user (me) access to ppp? I can think of a couple of ways that might work but I might as well do it the 'proper' way. I don't need high security (being the only user) but I'm sure I shouldn't be posting as root;) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: grub setup is driving me crazy
On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 22:32, J Y wrote: > Hi I am very grateful for the community here and I appreciate the help I > received. I will be trying to get my internet connection going when I > reboot into debian. Which brings me to my issue of the moment :( > I really have tried so many things to be able to boot from the grub SuSE > installs (version .92) I think. Currently I boot from a floopy. I read > the grub editing procedure which is made to sound simple but I can not > get debian to boot froom grub. I have edited /boot/grub/menu.1st every > way I can think of/copy from other how-tos. At best I get a filesystem > not found. I had been getting a start up and then 'kernel panic'. The > specifics, sorry, its early in the morning and I have just thrown the > damn SuSE manual against the floor, Debian 3.0 is on hdb5 my 2nd hard > drive. I know that grub numbers drives starting from 0 so hdb5 = (hd1,4). > This is my current (not working) /boot/grub/menu.1st debian listing: > > title debian3.0 >kernel (hd1,4)/boot/vmlinuz root=dev/hdb5 >initrd (hd1,4)/initrd Try this for menu.lst: root (hd1,?)(see below for the ?) kernel /boot/vmlinuz--2.4.18-k7root=/dev/hdb5 initrd/boot/initrd-2.4.18-k7 It looks to me as if your Suse may be in an extended partition? I *think* GRUB only counts the actual partitions used so for example the GRUB numbering would be as follows: /hdb1 windows (hd1,0) /hdb2 more windows(hd1,1) /hdb3 extended /hdb5 Suse (hd1,2) /hdb6 spare Linux (hd1,3) If you're using or have a grub boot floppy, you can check it by booting the floppy, then do (in the above example) root (hd1,2) and if it says it's found an ext2 partition, you know at least it's Linux Then try find /should show you a number of directory names, if you're lucky they'll include boot find /boot/should show you the actual kernel and initrd as two of the names. You only need the 'root=/dev/hdb5' as a Linux parameter to pass to the kernel if it's in a different partition from your root directory, that is, if you for example have a separate /boot/ partition (RedHat often does, Debian usually doesn't, I don't know about Suse). To install GRUB in the MBR, you need to either boot into Grub off a boot disk, or (when in Linux) run Grub, then when you're in the Grub shell do this: root (hd1,4) (or wherever your /boot/grub files are) setup (hd0) (and that will put Grub in the MBR of the first hard drive) (If your first drive happens to be DOS, you can also get GRUB for DOS which will allow you to install GRUB and its menus on the first hard drive. It comes complete with instructions. Google for "Grub for dos"). Hope this helps and I've made no booboos. ;) > I have tried putting /boot/vmlinuz-2.4.18-k7 for the kernel with video > parameters and not. I have tried /boot/loader, chainloader with the > device and +1. I did have debian install a loader to the partition just > not to the MBR. I wish I could have figured this out myself. The SuSE > manual makes setting up grub sound easy. They all do...:) Probably your using the second hard drive is the complication. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: pppd daemon dies
On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:58, John Hasler wrote: > cr writes: > > Other question - what's the 'proper' way to give a user (me) access to > > ppp? > > Add the user to the dip group. It is not necessary to add the user to > dialout as pppd opens the device while running as root. Thanks! I added myself to the dip group, and sure enough kppp now starts up for me. I also remembered to add 'noauth' as an option in my kppp setup (which worked fine when I was dialling as root).However, Kppp dials in, OK, but as soon as connection is established it drops out with 'using noauth option requires root privilege'. If I remove the noauth option, then I'm back to the previous error of 'remote system is required to authenticate itself'. The obvious 'fix' of adding myself to group 'root' is, I think, not a good idea ;) However I seem to have fixed it - I'll include this in case it helps anyone: /etc/ppp/options says: # Require the peer to authenticate itself before allowing network # packets to be sent or received. # Please do not disable this setting. It is expected to be standard in # future releases of pppd. Use the call option (see manpage) to disable # authentication for specific peers. auth So probably changing it to 'noauth' would work, but is, I assume, not approved. (And, reading between the lines, auth may be 'hard-wired' in in newer pppd's?) The 'correct' way seems to be (my ISP is called 'Orcon' for purposes of illustration): Copy /etc/ppp/peers/provider as /etc/ppp/peers/orcon and edit the file 'orcon' to suit (e.g. include 'noauth', and in my case comment out the sample chat script # connect "/usr/sbin/chat -v -f /etc/chatscripts/provider" ) Then, to use the 'call' option with Kppp, just do Setup -> (Orcon Internet) -> Edit -> pppd arguments -> [type in:] call orcon -> Add Hope I've got this right. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: pppd daemon dies
On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:11, cr wrote: > On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 20:52, Thomas Krennwallner wrote: > > Hi! > > > > On Sat Sep 27, 2003 at 01:03:30AM -0800, J Y wrote: > > > Sep 26 05:42:22 deblnx pppd[1178]: The remote system is required to > > > authenticate itself Sep 26 05:42:22 deblnx pppd[1178]: but I couldn't > > > find any suitable secret (password) for it to use to do so. Sep 26 > > > 05:42:22 deblnx pppd[1178]: (None of the available passwords would let > > > it use an IP address.) > > > > > > I went to kde/kppp site and read there that commenting out the > > > 'auth' line in /etc/ppp/otions could be a fix but it wasn't. So I > > > copied the /etc/ppp/options file from my SuSE distro but that didn't > > > work either. > > > > Add following line to /etc/ppp/options: > > > > noauth > > > > So long > > Thomas > > Or alternatively, after bringing up Kppp, go > > Setup -> [select account] -> Edit -> Customise pppd -> [type in ] noauth > -> Add > > I've just had to do that, half an hour ago, and it works. Just to correct myself - that *only* works if you're Root.(Even though I first saw it suggested on some website!) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: pppd daemon dies is a permissions problem? help?
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:32, J Y wrote: > Hi, I did the following: > > Copy /etc/ppp/peers/provider as /etc/ppp/peers/orcon > and edit the file 'orcon' to suit (e.g. include 'noauth', and in my case > comment out the sample chat script > # connect "/usr/sbin/chat -v -f /etc/chatscripts/provider" ) > > Then, to use the 'call' option with Kppp, just do > > Setup -> (Orcon Internet) -> Edit -> pppd arguments -> > [type in:] call orcon -> Add > > > Hope I've got this right. > > cr > > and got this response from internet dialer/kppp: > > Sep 3023:00:23 deblnx ppd(1626): Can't open options file > /etc/ppp/peers/highstream.net: Permission denied I know that this is a > permissions problem, now, But I don't know how to fix it. I have tried a > chmod ug +x on the file 'highstream.net" but that didn't work. I can't > imagine that I need to change permissions or owner for the whole file > listing. What is the answer to this please? Thanks (Copy to J Y in case he's still not getting the list posts) I'm no expert at all, but for what it's worth, my file /etc/ppp/peers/orcon is as follows: -rw-r-----1 root dip 580 Oct 1 10:28 orcon (I didn't set any of that specially, it was just what the sample file 'provider' had) and I'd already added myself (as user cr) to group dip. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
dpkg slightly bent
I had a crash while using Kpackage last night (nothing to do with software, it's a hardware fault). I'm up and running again after much fscking, but now Kpackage (or rather, dpkg which it calls) won't work.I get the message 'failed to open /var/lib/dpkg/available - no such file or directory'. Sure enough, there's no such file. There is a available-old file - should I just copy that as 'available' and continue? Or will it get something fatally out of sync? cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dpkg slightly bent
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 21:53, Colin Watson wrote: > On Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 09:26:14PM +1200, cr wrote: > > I had a crash while using Kpackage last night (nothing to do with > > software, it's a hardware fault). I'm up and running again after much > > fscking, but now Kpackage (or rather, dpkg which it calls) won't > > work.I get the message 'failed to open /var/lib/dpkg/available - > > no such file or directory'. > > 'dselect update' will refetch it. > > Cheers, Thanks! Worked perfectly! cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Base system
> On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 01:56:22PM -0500, John Foster wrote: > > Note: The first package that you should install from areas that are not > > "reqiured" ; even if you are trying to maintain a small file system is > > 'mc' (midnight commander) it will be your friend :-) > 8-) I re-installed Debian last week, this time I settled for what Tasksel gave me, intending to install the rest later, and sure enough, the *very first app* that I noticed the absence of was mc. cr ... just amused by the coincidence -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dpkg slightly bent
On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 02:12, Colin Watson wrote: > On Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 11:23:51PM +1200, cr wrote: > > On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 21:53, Colin Watson wrote: > > > 'dselect update' will refetch it. > > > > Thanks! Worked perfectly! > > Good stuff. Hello to you a day in the future, by the way ;) Just my fiendish plan to keep one step ahead of the list ;) Someone already pointed that out to me... I *think* I've fixed it. (Crosses fingers) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
How to kill X?
Way back in the days of RedHat 5 or thereabouts, whenever X siezed for any reason, I could kill it with Alt-Ctrl-Backspace and end up back in the command line. Very handy, since Linux is ~ 10^6 times more stable than X ;) However, since I got more sophisticated hardware with an ATX power supply, Ctrl-Alt-Backspace turns the machine off (or reboots it), with consequent fscking of the drives, which is a pain. I just had a sieze in X, and Ctrl-Alt-F? had no effect, Ctrl-Alt-Backspace was the only key combination that worked. Is there any setting that will restore its function of 'kill X but don't reboot the machine' or any other key combination that achieves that? cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to kill X?
On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 02:46, Kent West wrote: > Neo wrote: > >On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 13:37, cr wrote: > >>Way back in the days of RedHat 5 or thereabouts, whenever X siezed for > >> any reason, I could kill it with Alt-Ctrl-Backspace and end up back in > >> the command line. > > This is Debian's behaviour also. > > >>However, since I got more sophisticated hardware with an ATX power > >> supply, Ctrl-Alt-Backspace turns the machine off (or reboots it), with > >> consequent fscking of the drives, which is a pain. > > This is odd. I've never heard of such a thing. As someone else > mentioned, perhaps this is a key combination that your BIOS has reserved > for a reset, although I've never heard of such a BIOS. After I posted my query, and before I read these, it did occur to me that it might be a BIOS setting (as you suggest), and it was. It's an Award BIOS, and I changed 'Hot Key Function' from 'Power Off' to 'Disable'(meaning, disable the hot key I presume). Nowhere in the BIOS setup does it say what the hot key combination is, but I guess Alt-Ctrl-Backspace is it. Anyway, *now*, Ctrl-Alt-BS does indeed just kill X and leave me in Linux as it should.However, whether it'll still work if X 'siezes' I'll only know if and when I have a sieze. Thanks Chris -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to kill X?
On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 04:42, Pigeon wrote: > On Sun, Oct 05, 2003 at 02:42:17AM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 11:37:19PM +1200, cr wrote: > > > I just had a sieze in X, and Ctrl-Alt-F? had no effect, > > > Ctrl-Alt-Backspace was the only key combination that worked. Is > > > there any setting that will restore its function of 'kill X but don't > > > reboot the machine' or any other key combination that achieves that? > > > > Disable rebooting in the bios? > > That'll stop the rebooting... however I have an unpleasant suspicion > that if the box is so wedged that Ctrl-Alt-F? doesn't work, > Ctrl-Alt-Backspace won't work either (I don't intend to try and induce > a seizure to verify this :-) ) - ie. the reason Ctrl-Alt-Backspace > 'worked' was that the BIOS caught it. It may still be possible to log in > remotely and shut down; if not the best workaround until you can find > what's causing the seizures might be to use a journalling filesystem > like ext3. Actually, thinking back on it, what I used to get way back then was not so much a siezure of X as cascading errorboxes from one application... which eventually, if left to continue, would hang the computer. Ctrl-Alt-BS worked on that.What I had the other day was more like a sieze, everything 'locked up' (except Ctrl-Alt-BS which cut the power). Whether Ctrl-Alt-BS will now work to drop me back to the command line, or just have no effect at all (since I've now disabled the 'Hot Key Function' in the BIOS), I'll only find out if and when I have another sieze. I've only had one sieze in recent times, what I've had several of recently is sudden complete power cut - possibly a power supply fault. Either way, it has the same effect of discombobulating my hard drive so I have to do a lot of fscking on startup again.Occasionally this completely munges my X setup. I was thinking the best precaution might be to occasionally copy /etc, /root and maybe /home/cr (are those the appropriate directories?) to a directory on another drive, which is unlikely to have files open at the time of a crash, and just copy them back if I need to to restore my settings. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Installing a kernel off CD-ROM
Is there any way to install a kernel on the hard drive off the install CD-ROMs (without going through the whole Install process)? Currently, I have the 2.4.18-k6 kernel installed on my hard drive, but it doesn't seem to have ppp enabled (dmesg brings up no mention of ppp). I'm a little surprised, I would've thought a kernel I downloaded as a .deb off debian.org would have ppp enabled, but still...(did I do something wrong during the install, I wonder?) If I want to reach the Internet I currently have to boot the 2.4.18-bf2.4 kernel off the world's slowest floppy boot disk ;) Plus, floppy booting, it doesn't read Grub's menu.lst so never invokes hdb=ide-scsi that I need for cdrecord, though I assume I could change syslinux.cfg on the floppy: DISPLAY message.txt TIMEOUT 40 PROMPT 1 DEFAULT linux.bin APPEND root=/dev/hdc2 ro by changing the last line to APPEND root=/dev/hdc2 dhb=ide-scsi ro Anyway, back to the CD-ROM, is there any way to use the kernel images on that to just put a vmlinuz-xxx in /bootthat I can call with Grub, without going through the Install process again (because last time I did that, I broke things :( Or do I need to do another 5MB download of a .deb from debian.org? Regards cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to kill X?
On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 13:58, Mike Mueller wrote: > On Sunday 05 October 2003 06:02, Neo wrote: > > On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 13:37, cr wrote: > > > > > > I just had a sieze in X, and Ctrl-Alt-F? had no effect, > > > Ctrl-Alt-Backspace was the only key combination that worked. Is > > > there any setting that will restore its function of 'kill X but don't > > > reboot the machine' or any other key combination that achieves that? > > > > > try loging in remotely and run '/etc/init.d/dm stop'. > > (Fill in your running favorite display manager) > > I had a long run of X siezures where I could remote in sometimes and > sometimes not. Sometimes I had to reset and fsck. No key sequences on the > siezed machine had any effect other than expressing my frustration. > > FWIW, I changed my workstation from a machine with a crappy bare-bones > video card (Trident) to a machine with a less crappy bare bones video card > (ATI Rage something or another). That put a stop to the X siezures. Not > an elegant solution admittedly but I was able to run two desktops side by > side and compare stability. I was not able to find any direct evidence > that positively suggested that I should change video cards. > > Good luck. Thanks. I might end up trying that video card solution because currently I do have some suspicions of the on-board video chip (or whatever it is) on my motherboard. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to kill X?
On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 07:04, Pigeon wrote: > On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 05:09:29AM +1300, cr wrote: > > I've only had one sieze in recent times, what I've had several of > > recently is sudden complete power cut - possibly a power supply fault. > > Either way, it has the same effect of discombobulating my hard drive so I > > have to do a lot of fscking on startup again.Occasionally this > > completely munges my X setup. > > I think you might find ext3 to be a big help, though it's not a > complete solution - if the power dies in the middle of a write, you > can end up with a bad sector being created, which can confuse things a > bit. Are there any downsides to ext3? > > I was thinking the best precaution might be to occasionally copy /etc, > > /root and maybe /home/cr (are those the appropriate directories?) to a > > directory on another drive, which is unlikely to have files open at the > > time of a crash, and just copy them back if I need to to restore my > > settings. > > I'd add /var to the list, and copy them onto a partition which can be > mounted read-only except when you're actually doing the copying. Thanks, I'll do that. > Hmmm... you could have two such back-up partitions, and have a cron > job that backs up automatically to each one alternately every so > often. Then, even if it crashes during the backup, you've still got > the other copy. Well, that's a sort of second-order-of-probability, and a risk I'll take. If that happens I'll just do the reinstall thing. ;) > A new PSU is probably a good idea too :-) The new PSU idea will get tried out next weekend when I can pick one up. (It's cheaper than the other possibility which is trying out a new motherboard + CPU :) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installing a kernel off CD-ROM
On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 23:20, Andreas Janssen wrote: > Hello > > cr (<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote: > > Is there any way to install a kernel on the hard drive off the install > > CD-ROMs (without going through the whole Install process)? > > > > Currently, I have the 2.4.18-k6 kernel installed on my hard drive, > > but it doesn't seem to have ppp enabled (dmesg brings up no mention > > of ppp). I'm a little surprised, I would've thought a kernel I > > downloaded as a .deb off debian.org would have ppp enabled, but > > still... > > (did I do something wrong during the install, I wonder?) > > Check if the ppp support is built as modules. On my system (self > compiled kernel with ppp support as modules), the following modules are > loaded: > > sirius:/home/andreas# lsmod | grep ppp > ppp_deflate 3008 1 (autoclean) > zlib_inflate 18592 0 (autoclean) [ppp_deflate] > zlib_deflate 17984 0 (autoclean) [ppp_deflate] > ppp_async 6624 1 (autoclean) > ppp_generic17164 3 (autoclean) [ppp_deflate bsd_comp > ppp_async] > slhc4704 1 (autoclean) [ppp_generic] No, nothing for ppp (or PPP) > A quick search on <http://packages.debian.org> shows that your kernel > package has the ppp_async.o module (I didn't check for the other ones). > > Try this to find out: > > cat /boot/config-2.4.18-k6 | grep PPP Yes alti:/etc/modutils# cat /boot/config-2.4.18-1-k6 | grep PPP CONFIG_PPP=m CONFIG_PPP_MULTILINK=y CONFIG_PPP_FILTER=y CONFIG_PPP_ASYNC=m CONFIG_PPP_SYNC_TTY=m CONFIG_PPP_DEFLATE=m CONFIG_PPP_BSDCOMP=m CONFIG_PPPOE=m CONFIG_PPPOATM=m CONFIG_COMX_PROTO_PPP=m CONFIG_SYNCLINK_SYNCPPP=m CONFIG_HDLC_PPP=y CONFIG_WANPIPE_PPP=y CONFIG_WANPIPE_MULTPPP=y CONFIG_ISDN_PPP=y CONFIG_ISDN_PPP_VJ=y CONFIG_ISDN_PPP_BSDCOMP=m > On my system, these drivers are loaded automatically. There is a file > /etc/modutils/ppp with the following lines: > > alias /dev/ppp ppp_generic > alias char-major-108ppp_generic > alias tty-ldisc-3 ppp_async > alias tty-ldisc-14 ppp_synctty > alias ppp-compress-21 bsd_comp > alias ppp-compress-24 ppp_deflate > alias ppp-compress-26 ppp_deflate > > Please check your /etc/modutils/ppp file and your /etc/modules.conf to > make sure it also has these lines (if not, try to run update-modules). Yes: alti:/etc/modutils# less ppp alias /dev/ppp ppp_generic alias char-major-108ppp_generic alias tty-ldisc-3 ppp_async alias tty-ldisc-14 ppp_synctty alias ppp-compress-21 bsd_comp alias ppp-compress-24 ppp_deflate alias ppp-compress-26 ppp_deflate and /etc/modules.conf is the same: ... ### update-modules: start processing /etc/modutils/ppp alias /dev/ppp ppp_generic alias char-major-108ppp_generic alias tty-ldisc-3 ppp_async alias tty-ldisc-14 ppp_synctty alias ppp-compress-21 bsd_comp alias ppp-compress-24 ppp_deflate alias ppp-compress-26 ppp_deflate What does this mean? I downloaded the kernel as a .deb from debian.org. I installed it (IIRC) with Kpackage or with dpkg. I can't recall whether it asked me any questions about what to include when I installed it, or not. As a check, I just uninstalled my older 2.4.16-k6 kernel (which I don't normally use any more) and reinstalled it with dpkg -i //kernel-image-2.4.16-k6_2.4.16-1_i386.deb the only questions it asked me were whether I wanted to use Lilo (no). It gives exactly the same results for the ppp modules as the 2.4.18 kernel (above). Kppp dials my ISP and makes connection as it should - just that it isn't communicating with Kmail or browsers. When I boot off the bf2.4 kernel on the floppy, I got no response to lsmod | grep ppp before I tried dialling my ISP, but kppp dialled OK and communicated with Kmail successfully and now I get : alti:/home/cr# lsmod | grep ppp ppp_deflate38944 0 (autoclean) ppp_async 6464 0 (autoclean) ppp_generic18728 0 (autoclean) [ppp_deflate bsd_comp ppp_async] slhc4432 0 (autoclean) [ppp_generic] So, I'm a bit puzzled. > > If I want to reach the Internet I currently have to boot the > > 2.4.18-bf2.4 kernel off the world's slowest floppy boot disk ;) > > > > [...] > > > > Anyway, back to the CD-ROM, is there any way to use the kernel images > > on that to just put a vmlinuz-xxx in /bootthat I can call > > with Grub, without going through the Install process again (because > > last time I did that, I broke things :( > > > > Or do I need to do another 5MB download of a .deb from debian.org? > > First, you can use apt-get to install the package fo
Re: Suggestions for Organization's documents
On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:39, Monique Y. Herman wrote: > On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:35:12 +0100, Tom Badran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > penned: > >> I also have heard that OO.org is working on Reveal Codes for their > >> next release -- which, if true, has me drooling. That's the biggest > >> thing I miss about WordPerfect. > > > > No idea what these are so cant comment ;) > > "Reveal codes" mode allowed you to to see exactly what "tags" WP was > using on your document, kind of like a "view source". It was *really* > handy for debugging problems where you had too many nested formatting > commands and couldn't figure out why stuff wasn't displaying the way you > expected. Having seen the horrendous screw-ups that MS Word makes, I'm not surprised Mickey$oft don't offer it. ;) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to kill X?
On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 03:49, Pigeon wrote: > On Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 08:11:53PM +1300, cr wrote: > > On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 07:04, Pigeon wrote: > > > On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 05:09:29AM +1300, cr wrote: > > > > I've only had one sieze in recent times, what I've had several of > > > > recently is sudden complete power cut - possibly a power supply > > > > fault. Either way, it has the same effect of discombobulating my hard > > > > drive so I have to do a lot of fscking on startup again. > > > > Occasionally this completely munges my X setup. > > > > > > I think you might find ext3 to be a big help, though it's not a > > > complete solution - if the power dies in the middle of a write, you > > > can end up with a bad sector being created, which can confuse things a > > > bit. > > > > Are there any downsides to ext3? > > If you have a filesystem with a dirty journal you MUST try and replay > the journal, ie, fsck it, before doing anything else with it. If you > forget this you'll probably end up with worse damage than if you made > the same mistake with ext2. ext3 can be mounted as ext2 in emergency, > eg. if your rescue kernel hasn't got ext3 support, but don't be > tempted to mount it read-write. I think, with my capability for pushing the wrong button at critical moments, I might be safer to stick with ext2 then. > There's also a slight speed hit. This will be the case with any > journalled filesystem as there is more writing involved. I'm a fan of > SCSI hard drives, and I like to set up ext3 with an external journal, > ie. on a different physical drive, which speeds things up a bit, > though at the cost of making your data twice as vulnerable to hard > drive failures (if the journal drive dies you're likely to end up with > an unfsckable mess on the data drive). > > ext3 vs. reiser is a bit like emacs vs. vi. I haven't tried reiser, so > I won't comment on it. > > > The new PSU idea will get tried out next weekend when I can pick one up. > > (It's cheaper than the other possibility which is trying out a new > > motherboard + CPU :) > > It's worth noting that O(500MHz) PII/III machines are dumpster items > nowadays, but are still capable enough to be useful for trying that > sort of test before committing yourself. 8-) Quite true. My motherboard is a 350MHz K6.If I have to upgrade it, I won't be too upset, but the 350's fast enough for what I need so I there's no point fixing it if it ain't broke. And I guess one big advantage is, I can afford to risk breaking it ;) Btw, I initially set up that DOS/Windoze drive I was talking about on my spare machine - a 75MHz AMD K5. So what, it still works! cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installing a kernel off CD-ROM
On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 19:40, Andreas Janssen wrote: > Hello > (snip for bandwidth) > >> On my system, these drivers are loaded automatically. There is a file > >> /etc/modutils/ppp with the following lines: > >> > >> alias /dev/ppp ppp_generic > >> alias char-major-108ppp_generic > >> alias tty-ldisc-3 ppp_async > >> alias tty-ldisc-14 ppp_synctty > >> alias ppp-compress-21 bsd_comp > >> alias ppp-compress-24 ppp_deflate > >> alias ppp-compress-26 ppp_deflate > >> > >> Please check your /etc/modutils/ppp file and your /etc/modules.conf > >> to make sure it also has these lines (if not, try to run > >> update-modules). > > > > Yes: > > > > [modules.conf is ok] > > > > What does this mean? I downloaded the kernel as a .deb from > > debian.org. I installed it (IIRC) with Kpackage or with dpkg. > > I can't recall whether it asked me any questions about what to include > > when I installed it, or not. > > > > As a check, I just uninstalled my older 2.4.16-k6 kernel (which I > > don't normally use any more) and reinstalled it with > > dpkg -i //kernel-image-2.4.16-k6_2.4.16-1_i386.deb > > the only questions it asked me were whether I wanted to use Lilo > > (no). It gives exactly the same results for the ppp modules as the > > 2.4.18 kernel (above). > > The module configuration file is part of the ppp package, not the kernel > image packages. OK, so /etc/modules.conf is independent of which kernel I install or run, I take it. > > Kppp dials my ISP and makes connection as it should - just that it > > isn't communicating with Kmail or browsers. > > What does the ppp output or log say? Does pinging ip addresses work (try > ping 192.25.206.10 for www.debian.org)? Hmm, I may have found it. With the bf2.4 kernel (the one that ppp works OK with), /var/log/messages is as follows: Oct 10 22:06:59 alti kernel: PPP generic driver version 2.4.1 Oct 10 22:06:59 alti pppd[404]: pppd 2.4.1 started by cr, uid 1000 Oct 10 22:06:59 alti pppd[404]: Using interface ppp0 Oct 10 22:06:59 alti pppd[404]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/ttyS0 Oct 10 22:07:15 alti kernel: PPP BSD Compression module registered Oct 10 22:07:15 alti kernel: PPP Deflate Compression module registered Oct 10 22:07:15 alti pppd[404]: local IP address 219.88.129.175 Oct 10 22:07:15 alti pppd[404]: remote IP address 210.55.12.201 Oct 10 22:07:15 alti pppd[404]: primary DNS address 210.55.12.205 Oct 10 22:07:15 alti pppd[404]: secondary DNS address 210.55.12.1 Oct 10 22:07:54 alti pppd[404]: Terminating on signal 15. Oct 10 22:07:54 alti pppd[404]: Connection terminated. Oct 10 22:07:54 alti pppd[404]: Connect time 1.0 minutes. Oct 10 22:07:54 alti pppd[404]: Sent 5303 bytes, received 42981 bytes. Oct 10 22:07:55 alti pppd[404]: Exit. With the K6 kernel, /var/log/messages shows a lot of this: Oct 10 21:26:31 alti diald[212]: Delaying 1 seconds before clear to dial. Oct 10 21:26:34 alti diald[212]: Calling site 192.168.0.2 Oct 10 21:26:34 alti diald[212]: No devices free to call out on. Oct 10 21:26:35 alti diald[212]: Connect script failed. Oct 10 21:26:35 alti diald[212]: Delaying 1 seconds before clear to dial. Oct 10 21:26:59 alti pppd[485]: pppd 2.4.1 started by cr, uid 1000 Oct 10 21:26:59 alti pppd[485]: Using interface ppp0 Oct 10 21:26:59 alti pppd[485]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/ttyS0 Oct 10 21:27:00 alti pppd[485]: local IP address 219.88.128.122 Oct 10 21:27:00 alti pppd[485]: remote IP address 210.55.12.201 Oct 10 21:27:00 alti pppd[485]: primary DNS address 210.55.12.205 Oct 10 21:27:00 alti pppd[485]: secondary DNS address 210.55.12.1 Oct 10 21:27:00 alti diald[212]: Trigger: udp 192.168.0.1/32778 210.55.12.205/53 Oct 10 21:27:00 alti diald[212]: Calling site 192.168.0.2 Oct 10 21:27:00 alti diald[212]: No devices free to call out on. Oct 10 21:27:00 alti diald[212]: Connect script failed. Oct 10 21:27:00 alti diald[212]: Delaying 1 seconds before clear to dial. Oct 10 21:27:03 alti diald[212]: Calling site 192.168.0.2 Oct 10 21:27:03 alti diald[212]: No devices free to call out on. Oct 10 21:27:04 alti diald[212]: Connect script failed. Oct 10 21:27:04 alti diald[212]: Delaying 1 seconds before clear to dial. Oct 10 21:27:06 alti diald[212]: Calling site 192.168.0.2 What's diald up to, should it be doing that, is that what's interfering with ppp, and if so should I just kill diald? (Presumably a script somewhere started it). Regards cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: reverting to ext2 (Was: Re: How to kill X?)
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:05, Roberto Sanchez wrote: > Monique Y. Herman wrote: > > On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 at 22:49 GMT, Roberto Sanchez penned: > >>If you have and ext3 that you want to revert to ext2, you can just: > >> > >>tune2fs -O ^has_journal /dev/hdXX > >> > >>-Roberto > > > > Out of curiosity, why would one want to do this? > > > > Also, you can always mount an ext3 drive as ext2 just by specifying the > > type. In fact, I think mount will autodetect ext3 as ext2 -- you have > > to explicitly ask for ext3-mounting. > > Right. But, the OP said something about sticking with ext2 instead of > ext3. I assumed that he already had an ext3 drive that he wanted to > make ext2. > > -Roberto Thanks everybody for your input. As it happens, all my partitions are ext2 at the moment (except for some FAT16's but we needn't go into that ;) I'm contemplating swapping some of 'em to ext3, I was just wondering if the pluses outweight the minuses. It appears as if they do. It does reassure me, though, that if I happen to run/install a kernel that doesn't have ext3, I can use ext2 if necessary. Regards cr(the OP) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just got CDs, boot, oops...
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:04, Roberto Sanchez wrote: > KRF wrote: > > Just got my 7 CDs in the mail and have a dedicated PC to learn Debian on. > > I downloaded the entire manual and have good intentions to go through > > the install step by step, totally unlike my usual method of learning by > > rapid tapping on the enter key. > > > > CDs say they are D3.0 Woody and Manual says same thing. > > > > First step, boot CD1 to boot: prompt and then enter vanilla, which I > > assume will bring up a minimal system. > > > > However, I get a... > > > > Could not find kernel image: vanilla > > > > Is the manual out of sync with the CDs now? I can bypass it by just > > pressing enter, but then I assume that it will totally blow away the > > installation sequence of the tutorial. > > > > > > Ken > > Try bf24 instead of vanilla. The basic kernel in Woody is 2.2.20, which > is very old. If you have any hardware that was manufacured in the last > 3 or so years, you will want the bf24 install (which uses a 2.4.18 > kernel). That will likely have drivers for most of your hardware. > > -Roberto I'd agree with that. 'vanilla' is missing a few rather necessary bits, IIRC. But to answer the original question - there are several varieties of kernel on the CDROM, with names like (IIRC) vmlinuz-2.2.20-idepcifor the 'idepci' kernel,vmlinuz-2.2.20-compact for the 'compact' kernel, and so on.But there *isn't* a vmlinuz-2.2.20-vanilla, what is called the 'vanilla' kernel is just vmlinuz-2.2.20. So, just hitting 'enter' will get you the kernel known as vanilla. Yes, this is inconsistent.I guess they couldn't just call it the 'nothing' kernel. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Switching from RH 7.3 to Debian 3.0r1
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:40, Andreas Janssen wrote: > Hello > > Curtis (<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote: > > I've downloaded the debian isos, burning them afterwards, but before I > > take the plunge into switching, is there anything to prepare? > > This is my first time switching distros on a computer. Any pitfalls > > to avoid. > > By the way, I wanted to do a netinstall, so I only have to use the > > first cd. > > You should backup the configuration data of your current system. You > will probably have to manually select some things that were > automagically configured in Red Hat, like modules for your sound/net > devices or the XFree configuration (especially the XFree driver and the > frequencies of your monitors from the old configuration file will be > helpfull when you setup XFree in Debian). Also, Debian will use an 2.2 > kernel for installation by default. Maybe you want to use the 2.4 > installation kernel. Read the instructions when you boot from the CD, > they will tell you how to select the installation kernel. > > best regards > Andreas Janssen I'd definitely recommend the 2.4 kernel (you have to select it right at the start, on the first screen IIRC), since otherwise a few things that work in RH7.3 are likely not to be supported by the default 2.2 kernel in Debian Woody.(And no, I can't remember exactly which ones off the top of my head). cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: To be safe don't use shift key...
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:43, csj wrote: > On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 18:57:50 -0400, > > Roberto Sanchez wrote: > > Erik Steffl wrote: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > ...or else the riaa might sue you. > > > > > > > > http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/10/08/bmg.protection.reut/index.ht > > > >ml > > > > > > quote from article: "Computers running Linux and older > > > versions of the Mac operating system are unable to run the > > > software and are able to copy the disc freely, he said." > > > > > > ROFL > > > > Is that a license for us to copy something not worth copying? > > The forbidden fruit syndrome: if it's copy-protected it must be > good. Ah, I *knew* there was some reason why Mickey$oft wrote "Do not make illegal copies of this disk" on their Lose98 CD-ROMs. :) (At least, I think it was 98). cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How to kill X?
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 05:17, Pigeon wrote: > On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 08:49:26PM +1300, cr wrote: > > On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 03:49, Pigeon wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 08:11:53PM +1300, cr wrote: (snip) > > > > > > > > Are there any downsides to ext3? > > > > > > If you have a filesystem with a dirty journal you MUST try and replay > > > the journal, ie, fsck it, before doing anything else with it. If you > > > forget this you'll probably end up with worse damage than if you made > > > the same mistake with ext2. ext3 can be mounted as ext2 in emergency, > > > eg. if your rescue kernel hasn't got ext3 support, but don't be > > > tempted to mount it read-write. > > > > I think, with my capability for pushing the wrong button at critical > > moments, I might be safer to stick with ext2 then. > > Well, I admit that I found out about this the hard way. But I think > that was when I was running slink; the woody versions of the tools all > seem to spit out warnings if you try and treat ext3 as ext2. > > AIUI running fsck on ext2 will return the filesystem to a logically > consistent state but doesn't guarantee that you won't lose or corrupt > any files - as you've found out. ext3's journalling is a big safeguard > against this. It is unfortunate that power failures are one area where > this safeguard is noticeably incomplete. It seems to me that, since X is running on top of Linux, keyboard input must go to linux first then to X, and therefore it should be possible to program some keystroke combination (e.g. Alt-Ctrl-Backspace, though I still don't know if that works in the event of an X siezure) that would either tell Linux to just kill X or even, in dire emergency, tell Linux to 'unmount all drives *now* and shut down'. This would be handy since in my (limited) experience, X is often a bit shaky whereas Linux is rock-solid. It would also be handy in cases of e.g. monitor failure or video card glitches etc. (I'm running a standalone on a dial-up modem so telnetting in, as someone suggested, isn't really practical for me). But I'm no programmer so I don't know. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: windows NT
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 17:01, Pigeon wrote: > > I am used to conversations that start like this: > > "My TV's not working, can you fix it?" > "Er... what's wrong with it?" > "It doesn't work." > > ...and carry on in the same vein for far too long. IMO the idiocy of > the questions is a good sign that they come from genuine Windoze > lusers. I think there's some web page out there that's making them > think Debian and Windoze are somehow connected. Yeah well I *did* get better answers on how to multiboot a Windoze drive with GRUB on this list than I could find Googling on any Windoze sites Oops! Maybe all those Windoze lusers are googling too and the list archives are popping up in Google :( cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
diald interferes with pppd? (was: Re: Installing a kernel off CD-ROM)
I've had this sitting in my 'pending' folder while a bit of Real Life (TM) happened, but it's time I got back to it - my problem was that, with the bf2.4 kernel (loaded off boot floppy), Kppp and pppd worked OK, but with the 2.4-18-k6 kernel on my hard drive, pppd just doesn't communicate with Kmail or browsers. I could find no difference in the ppp setups bertween the two kernels (I've attached my replies to Andreas' questions at the end of this message for completeness), except that the k6 kernel seems to start diald while bf2.4 doesn't. With the bf24 kernel (under which Kppp/pppd works OK), /var/log/messages is as follows: Oct 10 22:06:59 alti kernel: PPP generic driver version 2.4.1 Oct 10 22:06:59 alti pppd[404]: pppd 2.4.1 started by cr, uid 1000 Oct 10 22:06:59 alti pppd[404]: Using interface ppp0 Oct 10 22:06:59 alti pppd[404]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/ttyS0 Oct 10 22:07:15 alti kernel: PPP BSD Compression module registered Oct 10 22:07:15 alti kernel: PPP Deflate Compression module registered Oct 10 22:07:15 alti pppd[404]: local IP address 219.88.129.175 Oct 10 22:07:15 alti pppd[404]: remote IP address 210.55.12.201 Oct 10 22:07:15 alti pppd[404]: primary DNS address 210.55.12.205 Oct 10 22:07:15 alti pppd[404]: secondary DNS address 210.55.12.1 Oct 10 22:07:54 alti pppd[404]: Terminating on signal 15. Oct 10 22:07:54 alti pppd[404]: Connection terminated. Oct 10 22:07:54 alti pppd[404]: Connect time 1.0 minutes. Oct 10 22:07:54 alti pppd[404]: Sent 5303 bytes, received 42981 bytes. Oct 10 22:07:55 alti pppd[404]: Exit. With the k6 kernel, (under which Kppp/pppd fails to communicate with apps), this happens: Oct 10 21:26:31 alti diald[212]: Delaying 1 seconds before clear to dial. Oct 10 21:26:34 alti diald[212]: Calling site 192.168.0.2 Oct 10 21:26:34 alti diald[212]: No devices free to call out on. Oct 10 21:26:35 alti diald[212]: Connect script failed. Oct 10 21:26:35 alti diald[212]: Delaying 1 seconds before clear to dial. Oct 10 21:26:59 alti pppd[485]: pppd 2.4.1 started by cr, uid 1000 Oct 10 21:26:59 alti pppd[485]: Using interface ppp0 Oct 10 21:26:59 alti pppd[485]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/ttyS0 Oct 10 21:27:00 alti pppd[485]: local IP address 219.88.128.122 Oct 10 21:27:00 alti pppd[485]: remote IP address 210.55.12.201 Oct 10 21:27:00 alti pppd[485]: primary DNS address 210.55.12.205 Oct 10 21:27:00 alti pppd[485]: secondary DNS address 210.55.12.1 Oct 10 21:27:00 alti diald[212]: Trigger: udp 192.168.0.1/32778 210.55.12.205/53 Oct 10 21:27:00 alti diald[212]: Calling site 192.168.0.2 Oct 10 21:27:00 alti diald[212]: No devices free to call out on. Oct 10 21:27:00 alti diald[212]: Connect script failed. Oct 10 21:27:00 alti diald[212]: Delaying 1 seconds before clear to dial. Oct 10 21:27:03 alti diald[212]: Calling site 192.168.0.2 Oct 10 21:27:03 alti diald[212]: No devices free to call out on. Oct 10 21:27:04 alti diald[212]: Connect script failed. Oct 10 21:27:04 alti diald[212]: Delaying 1 seconds before clear to dial. Oct 10 21:27:06 alti diald[212]: Calling site 192.168.0.2 I assume it's diald that is interfering with pppd; but why would the k6 kernel start diald when bf2.4 doesn't? (Or is diald called by a start-up file somewhere, but just not built in to the bf2.4 kernel so it fails to start?) I'll attach my answers to Andreas' helpful questions below, though I think they just show that ppp is installing itself OK with both kernels. On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 19:40, Andreas Janssen wrote: > Hello > > cr (<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote: > > On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 23:20, Andreas Janssen wrote: > >> cr (<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote: > >>> Is there any way to install a kernel on the hard drive off the > >>> install > >>> CD-ROMs (without going through the whole Install process)? > >>> > >>> Currently, I have the 2.4.18-k6 kernel installed on my hard drive, > >>> but it doesn't seem to have ppp enabled (dmesg brings up no > >>> mention of ppp). I'm a little surprised, I would've thought a > >>> kernel I downloaded as a .deb off debian.org would have ppp > >>> enabled, but still... > >>> (did I do something wrong during the install, I wonder?) > >> > >> Check if the ppp support is built as modules. On my system (self > >> compiled kernel with ppp support as modules), the following modules > >> are loaded: > >> > >> [ppp modules] > > > > No, nothing for ppp (or PPP) > > > >> A quick search on <http://packages.debian.org> shows that your kernel > >> package has the ppp_async.o module (I didn't check for the other > >> ones). > >> > >> Try this to find out: > >>
Clipboard is bent
(Next instalment in the fixing-my-desktop saga) Not sure if I should be asking on this list or a Gnome list, but can anyone tell me where to start investigating my clipboard? (I'm running Woody, and Gnome 1.4.) My clipboard works for some apps but not others. To take 6 apps at random - Opera's address (URL) bar, Konqueror's address (URL) bar, Kmail's message editor, Kwrite, gnotepad+ and gedit - Copy - Paste works (or not) as follows: Opera -> all others - works Kmail -> Konq and Kwrite works, others not Konq -> Kmail and Kwrite works, others not Kwrite -> Konq and Kmail works, others not gedit -> all except Opera, works gnotepad+ -> all except Opera, works To put it another way, the KDE apps will read anything; Gnome apps will read each other and Opera; Opera will export to anyone but won't read a thing. Please nobody tell me that KDE don't talk to Opera, because they were all happily doing so under Red Hat 7.2. cr (That is, 'cr' as in Chris Rodliffe, not C-R as in Challenge-Response, which is nothing to do with me ;) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Harassment
On Saturday 09 August 2003 00:07, Hugh Saunders wrote: > On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 06:41:02PM -0700, Alan Connor wrote: > > *plonk* yourself. > > > > killfiled > > I am FED up with you. > > If you killfile Colin Watson, you obviously dont want good advice. > Therefore I suggest you unsubscribe as you have no reason left for being on > the list. > > [I would have sent this off-list but didnt wanna mess with CR] Very wise. *Nobody* messes with me! cr (The only real genuine CR on the list ;) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Lilo Problems
On Wednesday 06 August 2003 19:23, Jefferson Cowart wrote: > I've installed a new server (woody 3.0r1 + proposed updates + security > updates) on a system that is running with root on sda3. Lilo seems to be > having problems as on boot it outputs and L followed by 01 01 01 and on > and on. i.e. "L 01 01 01 01..." Any clues what the problem is? I'm able > to get in using cd3 as a rescue disk and specifying "rescue > root=/dev/sda1". The bios is configured to boot the SCSI drive first. > > Please CC me on any responses as I'm not subscribed to this list. > > > Thanks > Jefferson Cowart > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Not sure if this has been answered on the list yet.one thing you could check is your BIOS settings, see if the hard drive type parameter is correct.Grub seems to want it set as 'LBA', I'm not sure about Lilo. (This applies to IDE drives. Not sure whether SCSI makes any difference). cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Let's Put SCO Behind Bars
On Sunday 10 August 2003 07:34, Shawn Lamson wrote: > On Sat, August 09 at 11:30 AM EDT > > "Michael D. Crawford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >It has been gently pointed out to me that my post was off-topic for > >debian-user so I'm going to avoid saying much more here unless someone > >asks me a question that I feel strongly everyone needs to see the > >answer to, like the following: > > I don't consider it off topic. If it is going to affect me using debian > it belongs on debian-user. > > Shawn Lamson > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Surely, a lot less Off-Topic than the recent thread on C-R systems, for example... ;) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: CD-Writer on Debian Woody
On Tuesday 12 August 2003 09:37, Andreas Janssen wrote: > Hello > > vinz (<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote: > > I've tried everything from a tonn of manuals... I still can't get my > > aopen cd-writer to work. > > and anyone help me please > > I'm dying here. > > I assume you use an IDE writer. You have to do at least the following: > > Configure the bootloader so that it tells the kernel to use ide scsi > emulation for the drive. Edit the append-line of your bootloader: > append="hdc=ide-scsi" > if the writer is secondary master > Don't forget to execute lilo (if you use lilo as your bootloader) and > reboot. > > Load the drivers. Normally, it is sufficient to load the ide-scsi module > at boottime (by adding it to /etc/modules). Other drivers should be > loaded automatically when needed. You can load them manually, you need: > ide-scsi > sg > sr_mod > scsi_mod > Please note that some of them may be compiled into the kernel, in this > case you don't have to load them. You can check the config of your > kernel (/boot/config-$version). The following options must be set to y > (compiled into the kernel) or m (module): > > CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDESCSI > CONFIG_CHR_DEV_SG > CONFIG_BLK_DEV_SR > CONFIG_SCSI > > I don't know if all debian kernels have the necessary drivers. Not all of them do.Of the Woody (2.2.20) kernels, 'vanilla' (with no suffix) and bf2.4 kernels do, IIRC, but the idepci kernel doesn't. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: rms on debian
On Sunday 17 August 2003 18:38, Jesse Meyer wrote: > On Sun, 17 Aug 2003, Kevin Mark wrote: > > http://www.ofb.biz/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=260 > > > > [ SNIP ] > > > > RMS: When I recommend a GNU/Linux distribution, I choose based on > > ethical considerations. Today I would recommend GNU/LinEx, the > > distribution prepared by the government of Extremadura, because that's > > the only installable distribution that consists entirely of free > > software. If I knew of more than one such distribution, I would choose > > between them based on practical considerations. > > > > [ SNIP ] > > > > So now that Debian is 10, RMS changes to another distro? What's up? > > We criticize our politicians for having no backbone. > We criticize RMS for sticking to his principles. > > ~ Jesse Meyer Well said. I have enormous respect for RMS, and I think every movement needs someone with principles like that to 'keep them honest'. Having said that, I think in this particular case, I'd put pragmatism ahead of principles and be more concerned to recommend a distro that was *easy* to use and least likely to send the new user back to what he's familiar with - W*ndoze.(And dare I say it, that wouldn't be Debian either. Maybe (from what I've heard) knoppix. :) Of course, LinEx might actually be very user-friendly, but that wasn't RMS's reason for recommending it. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Clipboard is bent
On Wednesday 06 August 2003 00:28, Noah L. Meyerhans wrote: > On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 09:16:29PM +1200, cr wrote: > > (Next instalment in the fixing-my-desktop saga) > > Not sure if I should be asking on this list or a Gnome list, > > but can anyone tell me where to start investigating my clipboard? > > (I'm running Woody, and Gnome 1.4.) > > I was really annoyed by the default X copy/paste settings in KDE as > well. My problems were fixed by configuring Klipper, the KDE clipboard > manager. Right-click on the clipboad icon oon your KDE panel and select > "Configure Klipper". My annoyances were fixed by setting the > "Synchronize contents of the clipboard and the selection" option. That > option seems to make copy/paste consistant across different GUI > toolkits, while the alternative seems to make a distinction between > normal X "copy on select" clipboard behavior and KDE explicit > "Edit menu->copy" behavior. > > I'm not sure if this option is the root of your problems, too, but it > sounds like it could be. It certainly resulted in inconsistant > clipboard behavior for me. Or rather, I guess it was *consistant* but > certainly not consistant with the way X behaves normally. > > HTH, > noah Sorry for the lng delay in replying, Real Life (TM) got in the way, and also, I must be running a different version of Klipper. I'm running Gnome, not KDE, so I don't have a KDE panel, nor can I find Klipper in a menu. Typing 'klipper' in a terminal window causes Klipper to appear on the Gnoome panel, left-clicking that gives me a little Klipper icon on the desktop, right-clicking that brings up a box with 'Actions enabled' and 'Preferences', but none of them seem to have an entry such as 'synchronise contents' It seems that Klipper is in fact *reading* anything copied in a KDE or a Gnome editor, because it shows them in its list of items. KDE will then read it, but Gnome apps (and Opera) won't read it. OTOH, Gnome apps and Opera will read each other's copy. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: whinging (was Re: rms on debian : background noise)
On Tuesday 19 August 2003 01:40, Chris Metzler wrote: > On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 07:12:01 -0500 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ( Rob VanFleet) wrote: > > Congratulations, you just joined the 10% of the net (not faulting those > > who aren't native english speakers) that actually *does* spell "whining" > > right (i.e. not "whinging"). Now, just don't call anybody a "looser" > > and you'll be set. ;-) > > Um . . ."whinging" is perfectly correct, at least according to the > Oxford English Dictionary, Merriam-Webster's 11th Ed. Collegiate, > etc. It may not be in common use in the U.S., but it's used quite > commonly in all other English-speaking countries (including, in > particular, England). > > The word "whinge," meaning "to moan fretfully," actually predates > the word "whine." > > -c Hmm, I rarely heard it used in England (though I haven't lived there for 30+ years), but I've heard it used all the time here in New Zealand, I thought it was a Kiwi-ism. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SCO identifies code?
On Tuesday 19 August 2003 12:51, Alex Malinovich wrote: (snip) > > IANAL, but this is how I've understood the law and, in particular, how > my former employer would most certainly interpret it. I've just realised what IANAL means."I am not a lawyer". I thought it meant "I am not a LIAR". Hmmmm. Is there a difference? ;) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SCO identifies code?
On Tuesday 19 August 2003 20:43, Alex Malinovich wrote: > On Tue, 2003-08-19 at 02:53, cr wrote: > > On Tuesday 19 August 2003 12:51, Alex Malinovich wrote: > > > > (snip) > > > > > IANAL, but this is how I've understood the law and, in particular, how > > > my former employer would most certainly interpret it. > > > > I've just realised what IANAL means."I am not a lawyer". > > I thought it meant "I am not a LIAR". > > > > H. Is there a difference? ;) > > Of course! Liars are your ordinary, garden-variety liars. Lawyers, on > the other hand, go to liar... I mean lawyer, school for years to become > experts at it :) Well I did have SCO's legal team in mind when I wrote that :) cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: whinging (was Re: rms on debian : background noise)
On Tuesday 19 August 2003 21:08, Kevin Mark wrote: > On Tue, 2003-08-19 at 04:50, Dave Howorth wrote: > > cr wrote: > > >>Hmm, I rarely heard it used in England (though I haven't lived there > > >> for 30+ years), but I've heard it used all the time here in New > > >> Zealand, I thought it was a Kiwi-ism. > > > > Mark wrote: > > > Whinge has been in common usage for as long as I can recall here (UK). > > > Probably the thing to do is for someone with access to check the OED > > > for the etymological references. > > > > I'd agree with both of you :-) It certainly gets used here in the UK > > but the archetypical use must be the Antipodean phrase 'whinging poms'. > > Is that Kiwi or Aussie? > > Aussie, I think.Though it occasionally gets used in NZ too. > > Cheers, Dave > > > > PS For any yanks who don't know the word, 'poms' is equivalent to > > 'limeys' > > Limeys - saliors eat limes to avoid scurvey > POMS - prisoners of mother england > equal? > -K He said 'equivalent', which it is, I believe. Both slang for English. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SCO identifies code?
On Wednesday 20 August 2003 07:14, Bijan Soleymani wrote: > On Tue, Aug 19, 2003 at 06:27:03PM +0100, iain d broadfoot wrote: > > * Bijan Soleymani ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > On Tue, Aug 19, 2003 at 08:43:21AM +0100, Mark wrote: > > > > On Mon, Aug 18, 2003 at 09:33:03PM -0400, Bijan Soleymani wrote: > > > > > This makes a lot of sense. I mean if the FSF hired you to write a > > > > > GPL program, they wouldn't want you to release a proprietary > > > > > version of it after you quit working for them. > > > > > > > > Why would they care? They would have their GPLed version, if you > > > > choose to write a closed version, that's your choice. > > > > > > If they didn't care about closed version they wouldn't use the GPL. > > > > This is broken logic. > > > > The FSF would have nothing to lose from a closed version of a GPL piece > > of software being developed. > > It's not nothing. Let's say half the users use the FSF/GPL version and > half use the closed version. The FSF has just lost half its users. By > the FSF's theory half the users have lost their freedom. No, they've chosen (for some presumably good reason) to use the 'closed' version. They still have the freedom to choose. The most you can say is, by using non-'free', they're helping (financially) the 'closed' version and reducing the user base of the 'free' version. That doesn't matter much so long as the versions remain compatible. If it's M$ doing the 'closed' version, of course, we know what would happen - copyrighted non-free 'features' get added, after which they try to squeeze the free version out.OTOH, if it's a company with the slightest degree of ethics, then the two versions could offer a wider choice to users. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
OT: Re: Virus found in the message
On Wednesday 20 August 2003 02:46, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Scanner: MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.0 > > Problem description: > Email data: > MessageID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: > Subject: Re: Wicked screensaver > Scanning part [] > > Scanning part [wicked_scr.scr] > Attachment validity check: passed. > Virus identity found: W32/Sobig-F Is there a rash of viruses with spoofed origin lines all of a sudden? I had *120* emails in my other email account today (not the one I use on Debian), many of them were Re: Wicked Screensaver. I thought they were all spam but I guess they were mostly bounce messages - something's been spoofing my (other) email addy. cr -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
