Edge on debian
Hello list, Have you anybody tried MS Edge browser on Debian desktop? I would be happy to hear your viewpoints on this app. Thanks.
Re: Failed Debian 12 install, need help with boot loader re-install
Chris Green composed on 2024-11-04 10:03 (UTC): > I just tried to install Debain 12 onto my Fujitsu Esprimo Q957 system > (was running xubuntu previously). I have installed Debian 12 using > the same USB stick on two other systems so the installation media are > OK. > The whole installation ran without any problems but it simply fails to > boot, I just get a blank black screen with a prompt at the top left > cormer. What kind of prompt? > I'm attempting to re-install the boot loader using the graphical > rescue from the USB stick but it's not at all clear which partition I > should be installing it on. "Re-installing" bootloader has a different meaning with UEFI booting. One does not normally grub-install /dev/sda or /dev/nvme0n1 on UEFI systems. > The system has two SSD drives - /dev/nvme0 and /dev/sda. I'm > installing Debian on /dev/nvme0. > When I go to re-install the boot loader I'm offered /dev/nvme0n1p1, > /dev/nvme0n1p2 or /dev/nvme0n1p3 (plus /dev/sda of course but I don't > want it there) but there's no indication which one of these I should > put the boot loader on. > On one of the systems where I have installed Debian 12 without > problems it has:- > FilesystemType 1M-blocks Used Avail Use% Mounted on > /dev/mapper/t470--vg-root ext4936644 197158 691835 23% / > /dev/nvme0n1p2ext2 456121311 29% /boot > /dev/nvme0n1p1vfat 511 6506 2% /boot/efi The UEFI BIOS initiates boot by loading one or more files from the VFAT filesystem, termed ESP, which mounts to /boot/efi/. > Presumably the new/failed install will have a similar configuration > The xubuntu installation worked fine from /dev/nvme0 so I don't think > there's can be anything fundamentally wrong. Are there any BIOS > settings I should check? It's usually a good idea to disable CSM support (legacy/MBR booting), by whatever term your particular UEFI BIOS labels it. > Thanks for any/all help. Boot installation or rescue media in UEFI mode and provide us output from parted -l, lsblk -f and efibootmgr -v, plus content of fstab. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata
(SOLVED) Re: USB device not mounting
D. R. Evans wrote on 11/3/24 15:13: I have a USB device that has always worked fine in the past, but now I can no longer access it when it is plugged in to my bookworm systems. (I last used the device a couple of weeks ago.) I am an idiot (although somewhat in my defence, there is no mention of this in the user manual) -- I had completely forgotten that this particular device needs special software to communicate with it. Once I realised that, I could communicate with it just fine. Sorry for the wasted bandwidth. Doc -- Web: http://enginehousebooks.com/drevans
Open links in existing browser window, not in current workspace
When I click on a web link in a terminal window I want the link to open in my existing browser window (which is usually on a different workspace). In my new[ish] Debian 12 installation a new browser window pops up in the current workspace which I find very annoying. It used to work the way I want on my old xubuntu installation so I'm sure it must be configurable somewhere. I'm running xfce4 and my default browser is vivaldi. Can anyone point me at where this might be configured? -- Chris Green
Re: Debian 12 installation - installation USB stick boots to grub prompt
On Mon 04 Nov 2024 at 12:36:18 (+), Chris Green wrote: > This continues from my "Failed Debian 12 install..." thread earlier > today. > > I can't get the USB Installation stick to boot into the Debian > installation process when I load it in UEFI mode. If I boot the USB > stick in UEFI mode it just takes me to the grub prompt. It may help to know whether that's a grub> prompt or a grub rescue> prompt. The latter takes a bit more work to recover from. Whichever, does typing ls produce a listing of some sort? Basically, you have to look around to find the bits of Grub that you need to load, find the kernel and initrd, and then boot them. > I suspect that this is why, when I boot from the USB stick in BIOS > compatibility mode the resulting installation doesn't work. > > Any ideas what I need to do to get the USB stick to boot properly in > USB mode? > > The hardware is a Fujitsu Esprimo Q957 system with a 2Gb NVME disk > drive. Installation on a quite similar Fujitsu Esprimo Q556 system > goes without a hitch (though that only has SATA drives). Cheers, David.
Re: Debian 12 installation - installation USB stick boots to grub prompt
On Mon, Nov 04, 2024 at 09:09:31AM -0600, David Wright wrote: > On Mon 04 Nov 2024 at 12:36:18 (+), Chris Green wrote: > > This continues from my "Failed Debian 12 install..." thread earlier > > today. > > > > I can't get the USB Installation stick to boot into the Debian > > installation process when I load it in UEFI mode. If I boot the USB > > stick in UEFI mode it just takes me to the grub prompt. > > It may help to know whether that's a grub> prompt > or a grub rescue> prompt. The latter takes a bit more > work to recover from. > It's just a "grub>". > Whichever, does typing ls produce a listing of some sort? > Oh yes:- (proc) (memdisk) (lvm/q957--vg-swap_1) (lvm/q957--vg-root) (hd0) (hd0,apple2) (hd0,apple1) (hd0,msdos2) (hd1) (hd1,gpt1) (hd2) (hd2,msdos5) (hd2,msdos1) > Basically, you have to look around to find the bits of Grub > that you need to load, find the kernel and initrd, and then > boot them. > > > I suspect that this is why, when I boot from the USB stick in BIOS > > compatibility mode the resulting installation doesn't work. > > > > Any ideas what I need to do to get the USB stick to boot properly in > > USB mode? > > > > The hardware is a Fujitsu Esprimo Q957 system with a 2Gb NVME disk > > drive. Installation on a quite similar Fujitsu Esprimo Q556 system > > goes without a hitch (though that only has SATA drives). > > Cheers, > David. > > -- Chris Green
Re: Failed Debian 12 install, need help with boot loader re-install
On Mon 04 Nov 2024 at 11:16:06 (+), Chris Green wrote: > ... and if "Launch CSM" is disabled then when I boot from the Debain > 12 USB stick I just get dropped into the grub menu and I can't do an > install. Can you describe the menu. We can't see over your shoulder. Also, can you type c to get a command prompt? Is there a countdown, and has it stalled? Cheers, David.
Re: Debian 12 installation - installation USB stick boots to grub prompt
On Mon 04 Nov 2024 at 15:27:44 (+), Chris Green wrote: > On Mon, Nov 04, 2024 at 09:09:31AM -0600, David Wright wrote: > > On Mon 04 Nov 2024 at 12:36:18 (+), Chris Green wrote: > > > This continues from my "Failed Debian 12 install..." thread earlier > > > today. > > > > > > I can't get the USB Installation stick to boot into the Debian > > > installation process when I load it in UEFI mode. If I boot the USB > > > stick in UEFI mode it just takes me to the grub prompt. > > > > It may help to know whether that's a grub> prompt > > or a grub rescue> prompt. The latter takes a bit more > > work to recover from. > > > It's just a "grub>". > > > > Whichever, does typing ls produce a listing of some sort? > > > Oh yes:- > > (proc) (memdisk) (lvm/q957--vg-swap_1) (lvm/q957--vg-root) (hd0) > (hd0,apple2) (hd0,apple1) (hd0,msdos2) (hd1) (hd1,gpt1) (hd2) > (hd2,msdos5) (hd2,msdos1) So hd0 is the USB stick. I'm not familiar with the view you have there, so try things like: ls (hd0,apple1)/ ls (hd0,apple2)/ ls (hd0,msdos2)/ I'm guessing appleX gives you a UEFI view, and msdos2 an MBR view. If you see directories, try listing them. (Command recall should work to save typing.) (In the other thread, c didn't work because you were already at the command prompt that c gives you.) Cheers, David.
Re: Open links in existing browser window, not in current workspace
On 2024-11-04 at 10:03, Chris Green wrote: > When I click on a web link in a terminal window I want the link to > open in my existing browser window (which is usually on a different > workspace). > > In my new[ish] Debian 12 installation a new browser window pops up > in the current workspace which I find very annoying. > > It used to work the way I want on my old xubuntu installation so I'm > sure it must be configurable somewhere. > > I'm running xfce4 and my default browser is vivaldi. > > Can anyone point me at where this might be configured? Since "click on a Web link in a terminal window" is a foreign concept to me (in the terminal I use, links are plain text like any other text, they aren't clickable), I infer that you must be using a different terminal emulator, one which provides a different and arguably richer feature set. If I were in your position, the first two places I'd look would be at the default-browser setting (in particular, the exact method and arguments with which that browser is launched, since there may be command-line arguments which could affect this) and the terminal-emulator configuration. What terminal emulator are you using? -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Failed Debian 12 install, need help with boot loader re-install
On Mon, Nov 04, 2024 at 09:14:09AM -0600, David Wright wrote: > On Mon 04 Nov 2024 at 11:16:06 (+), Chris Green wrote: > > ... and if "Launch CSM" is disabled then when I boot from the Debain > > 12 USB stick I just get dropped into the grub menu and I can't do an > > install. > > Can you describe the menu. We can't see over your shoulder. > Sorry, not a menu, just a grub prompt - "grub>" I guess you thought I meant the grub menu where the default first selection is normal system boot, it's not that. > Also, can you type c to get a command prompt? > If I enter 'c' it says "error: can't find command `c'. > Is there a countdown, and has it stalled? > It just sits there for ever. -- Chris Green
Re: Minimalist HTML 4 viewer available?
On 4 Nov 2024 09:36 -0500, from monn...@iro.umontreal.ca (Stefan Monnier): >> Frames were current up through HTML 4[7] but are non-conformant in >> HTML 5[8], although interestingly enough still described[9]. > > Not sure if we're talking about the same "frames", but uMatrix has > a column dedicated to frames and I see it used fairly frequently for > captchas and online credit card payment elements. That probably includes iframes (inline frames). I was talking about the HTML pre-5 and related tags. -- Michael Kjörling 🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se
Re: Open links in existing browser window, not in current workspace
On Mon, Nov 04, 2024 at 10:16:39AM -0500, The Wanderer wrote: > On 2024-11-04 at 10:03, Chris Green wrote: > > > When I click on a web link in a terminal window I want the link to > > open in my existing browser window (which is usually on a different > > workspace). > > > > In my new[ish] Debian 12 installation a new browser window pops up > > in the current workspace which I find very annoying. > > > > It used to work the way I want on my old xubuntu installation so I'm > > sure it must be configurable somewhere. > > > > I'm running xfce4 and my default browser is vivaldi. > > > > Can anyone point me at where this might be configured? > > Since "click on a Web link in a terminal window" is a foreign concept to > me (in the terminal I use, links are plain text like any other text, > they aren't clickable), I infer that you must be using a different > terminal emulator, one which provides a different and arguably richer > feature set. > > If I were in your position, the first two places I'd look would be at > the default-browser setting (in particular, the exact method and > arguments with which that browser is launched, since there may be > command-line arguments which could affect this) and the > terminal-emulator configuration. > > What terminal emulator are you using? > The default in xfcei, xfce4-terminal. I think you're right, it's probably the default browser setting in xfce4 that I need to tamper with to change this. I don't remember anything quite like this when I was using xubuntu, though maybe I did it so long ago that I've forgotten. I have a complete backup of one of my old xubuntu/xfce4 installations but it's currently on a disk in the system that won't boot Debian 12. :-( -- Chris Green
Re: Failed Debian 12 install, need help with boot loader re-install
On Mon, Nov 4, 2024 at 9:22 AM Chris Green wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 04, 2024 at 11:10:03AM +, Chris Green wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 04, 2024 at 05:34:49AM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: > > > > > > It's usually a good idea to disable CSM support (legacy/MBR booting), by > > > whatever > > > term your particular UEFI BIOS labels it. > > > > > The BIOS has "CSM Configuration", if I go into that I'm offered:- > > > > Launch CSM > > Boot option filter > > Launch PXE OpROM Policy > > > > If I disable "Launch CSM" then the other options disappear. With > > "Launch CSM" disabled when I reboot the system it just drops me into > > the BIOS diagnostic program and I can get no further. > > > > Similarly if I enable "Launch CSM" and set the "Boot option filter" to > > "UEFI only" then on reboot I simply end up in the BIOS diagnostic > > program again. > > > > Maybe I should try installing from scratch again with "Launch CSM" > > disabled? (I'm glad this is a fairly fast system!) > > > ... and if "Launch CSM" is disabled then when I boot from the Debain > 12 USB stick I just get dropped into the grub menu and I can't do an > install. I've come across an Acer system that requires a BIOS password to unlock more BIOS menus and functionality. The BIOS password unlocked additional menus to change disk protocols and boot devices. After adding a password, I was able to switch to UEFI boot and enable SecureBoot. You might try to add a password to see if it unlocks additional menus for you. Jeff
Re: Edge on debian
Response below/inline for email Hwa Peer wrote: > (original email sent 4 Nov 2024 at 20:15) > > Have you anybody tried MS Edge browser on Debian desktop? > I would be happy to hear your viewpoints on this app. I installed it on one system because I have to use Teams for work and Teams would not work reliably on Firefox (or as the direct app). IME, Edge is typically MS: doesn't follow Linux standards and is a memory hog. Caveat: I now have Teams working with Firefox (separate profile which doesn't block as many things) so haven't used Edge in a few months. -- Eric S Fraga via gnus (Emacs 31.0.50 2024-07-16) on Debian 12.0
Re: Debian 12 installation - installation USB stick boots to grub prompt
Chris Green composed on 2024-11-04 15:27 (UTC): > (proc) (memdisk) (lvm/q957--vg-swap_1) (lvm/q957--vg-root) (hd0) > (hd0,apple2) (hd0,apple1) (hd0,msdos2) (hd1) (hd1,gpt1) (hd2) > (hd2,msdos5) (hd2,msdos1) On all my GPT disks, the required ESP filesystem is on (hd0,gpt1). Presumably your ESP is on (hd1,gpt1). Given the data provided in your OP about your Q556, I would expect to see (hd1,gpt2) as a /boot/ partition to support your lvm /. Instead you have only swap and / on your (hd1). I wasn't aware that LVM users no longer needed a separate /boot/ filesystem. Modern PCs no longer "require" Windows to upgrade a BIOS. Instead, most offer an assortment of possible methods, one of which is booting into BIOS setup utility that will find a new BIOS on a FAT formatted USB stick. Some are reputedly capable of getting the new BIOS directly off the internet. Chris Green composed on 2024-11-04 14:49 (UTC): > Felix Miata wrote: >> You might try pre-partitioning the NVME in GPT mode with ESP partition >> instead >> of the current MBR mode. You seem to have skipped addressing this directly. It appears from your Grub shell ls output that you may have, but differently from what worked on the working other system, instead, creating a swap, and omitting a /boot/. Comparing ls output from the other system might be useful. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata
Re: Debian 12 installation - installation USB stick boots to grub prompt
On Mon, Nov 4, 2024 at 12:17 PM Chris Green wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 04, 2024 at 08:31:41AM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: > [...] > > Is a BIOS update available? > > > Possibly, but I bet I'd need an MS-Windows system to do the update. This situation sucks. My father has an Acer laptop like it -- the only way to update the BIOS/UEFI is through Windows. My workaround is a SSD with a USB interface loaded with Windows. It is essentially the Windows2Go drive. It was created using Rufus and Windows 10. I boot the laptop to the thumb drive, install the BIOS/UEFI update, remove the thumb drive, and then return the machine back to Linux. (The thumb drive is the only Windows machine in our house). Jeff
Re: Edge on debian
On 04/11/2024 12:15, Hwa Peer wrote: Hello list, Have you anybody tried MS Edge browser on Debian desktop? I would be happy to hear your viewpoints on this app. Thanks. Why???
Re: Failed Debian 12 install, need help with boot loader re-install
On Mon, Nov 04, 2024 at 10:03:15AM +, Chris Green wrote: > > The whole installation ran without any problems but it simply fails to > boot, I just get a blank black screen with a prompt at the top left > cormer. > I just tried a second time (new install from scratch) and the result is the same. On rebooting after the install I just get a blank screen with a flashing cursor at the top left hand corner (not 'a prompt'). Help! :-) -- Chris Green
Re: Failed Debian 12 install, need help with boot loader re-install
On Mon, Nov 04, 2024 at 05:34:49AM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: > > It's usually a good idea to disable CSM support (legacy/MBR booting), by > whatever > term your particular UEFI BIOS labels it. > The BIOS has "CSM Configuration", if I go into that I'm offered:- Launch CSM Boot option filter Launch PXE OpROM Policy If I disable "Launch CSM" then the other options disappear. With "Launch CSM" disabled when I reboot the system it just drops me into the BIOS diagnostic program and I can get no further. Similarly if I enable "Launch CSM" and set the "Boot option filter" to "UEFI only" then on reboot I simply end up in the BIOS diagnostic program again. Maybe I should try installing from scratch again with "Launch CSM" disabled? (I'm glad this is a fairly fast system!) -- Chris Green
Debian 12 installation - installation USB stick boots to grub prompt
This continues from my "Failed Debian 12 install..." thread earlier today. I can't get the USB Installation stick to boot into the Debian installation process when I load it in UEFI mode. If I boot the USB stick in UEFI mode it just takes me to the grub prompt. I suspect that this is why, when I boot from the USB stick in BIOS compatibility mode the resulting installation doesn't work. Any ideas what I need to do to get the USB stick to boot properly in USB mode? The hardware is a Fujitsu Esprimo Q957 system with a 2Gb NVME disk drive. Installation on a quite similar Fujitsu Esprimo Q556 system goes without a hitch (though that only has SATA drives). -- Chris Green
Re: [solved, more] Re: Grub menu entry for a system on a second drive.
On Nov 02, 2024, pe...@easthope.ca wrote: > From: pe...@easthope.ca > Date: 27 Oct 2024 11:26:12 -0700 > > Rather than spend more time investigating, will put the HDD in the > > target machine and work there. Remove some of the complications. > > Happened to connect a USB hub before dealing with the Void drive. > Noticed the USB socket where the Void drive was connected had a black > plastic contact carrier and another socket had a blue carrier. Blue is > USB 3. Black isn't? So plugged the USB adapter with the Void drive > into the blue socket. Voila; Grub was able to boot the Void system > reliably. Spent the better part of a day investigating when a USB plug > just needed moving. =8~/ > > In case anyone is interested, these topics remain. > > * Why does the ThinkCentre have differing USB sockets? USB3 is (was) expensive, so it's a cost-reducing thing. People didn't have all that much in the way of USB-3 devices, so why bother making every port USB-3? > > * With the adapter labeled USB 2.0, why is plugging in USB 3 necessary > to boot the external system? USB3-only drive? Error in the BIOS settings to only allow USB3 booting? -- |_|O|_| |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian 12 installation - installation USB stick boots to grub prompt
On Mon, Nov 04, 2024 at 08:31:41AM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: > Chris Green composed on 2024-11-04 12:36 (UTC): > > > This continues from my "Failed Debian 12 install..." thread earlier > > today. > > > I can't get the USB Installation stick to boot into the Debian > > installation process when I load it in UEFI mode. If I boot the USB > > stick in UEFI mode it just takes me to the grub prompt. > > > I suspect that this is why, when I boot from the USB stick in BIOS > > compatibility mode the resulting installation doesn't work. > > > Any ideas what I need to do to get the USB stick to boot properly in > > USB mode? > > This has never happened to me, so I can do no more than speculate why. > > How did you make that stick? If it contains Ventoy, try making a normal stick > with > only the Bookworm .iso. > It's an absolutely standard isohybrid image copied to a USB stick, no extras. > You might try pre-partitioning the NVME in GPT mode with ESP partition > instead of > the current MBR mode. > > It may be necessary to force UEFI boot mode by using the BBS hotkey during > POST, > to get a list of devices from which to boot, and select a UEFI option matching > your USB device. It might be necessary to disable CSM for this to work. > That'a what I'm doing, the boot device selection offers me UEFI mode for the USB stick but when I use that it just dumps me at the grub prompt. > Is a BIOS update available? > Possibly, but I bet I'd need an MS-Windows system to do the update. > https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch03s06.en.html#boot-dev-select-x86 > contains other options for booting an ornery UEFI BIOS. (I didn't read it > through > to end before first send of this message.) > I've read through that but nothing really helps, there's no options in the BIOS to change the type of the USB device. -- Chris Green
Re: Debian 12 installation - installation USB stick boots to grub prompt
On Mon, Nov 04, 2024 at 08:53:02AM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > I suspect that this is why, when I boot from the USB stick in BIOS > > compatibility mode the resulting installation doesn't work. > > Last time I did an install on a UEFI machine (most of my machines are > too old, and of the two that aren't, one is running Coreboot 🙂), > I found out that if the installation media is booted in "legacy BIOS" > mode, then it can't do an install that boots via UEFI. > IOW I had 3 choices: > > - Always boot using legacy BIOS mode. > - Always boot using UEFI. > - Boot the install using legacy BIOS, then manually change the install > to use grub-efi, then reboot into my EFI config to "activate" the > right `.efi` installed into the EFI partition. > > I started with the first choice, and then a few months later went > through the trouble of the third which required more fiddling and > reboots than I care to admit. > I don't seem to get any choice. If I boot from the USB stick (isohybrid image) in Legacy mode then it all **appears** to work, installation completes, but then the system won't boot. I don't see how I can opt to either "Always boot using legacy BIOS mode" or "Always boot using UEFI". How would I "Boot the install using legacy BIOS, then manually change the install to use grub-efi", I can't see anywhere in the installation process that would allow me to do this. -- Chris Green
Re: Minimalist HTML 4 viewer available?
On 4/11/24 18:56, Michael Kjörling wrote: On 4 Nov 2024 06:00 +, from a...@strugglers.net (Andy Smith): Installing 20+ year old software just to make sure it can never parse HTML5 is total lunacy. There will be no support community for such a thing for a start, so any problem you have is going to be a showstopper. Also, it shouldn't be particularly difficult, if one is so inclined, to create a file which (short of the doctype declaration) is _simultaneously_ valid HTML 2.0 (to say nothing of HTML 4) and HTML 5. Kind of like how _by design_ anything that is valid 7-bit US-ASCII is also simultaneously valid as UTF-8 representing the same Unicode code points. Yes, later versions of HTML have _added_ quite a lot of stuff, and perhaps slightly changed the default _semantics_ of some; but very little has been _removed_. (One biggie might be , which was deprecated as of HTML 4.01[1] and appears to be nonexistent in HTML 5[2].) [1]: https://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/graphics.html#h-15.2.2 [2]: https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/indices.html#elements-3 As a person who writes web sites in HTML 3, I believe that frames have been deprecated, and, I believe that the bolding ( Bold ) has also been deprecated and replaced with strong or something similar. What works and does not work, of what has been deprecated, can also depend on the individual browser, and, what each inmdividual browser will allow or not. .. Bret Busby Armadale West Australia (UTC+0800) ..
Re: Minimalist HTML 4 viewer available?
On 4 Nov 2024 19:30 +0800, from b...@busby.net (Bret Busby): >> Yes, later versions of HTML have _added_ quite a lot of stuff, and >> perhaps slightly changed the default _semantics_ of some; but very >> little has been _removed_. (One biggie might be , which was >> deprecated as of HTML 4.01[1] and appears to be nonexistent in HTML >> 5[2].) >> >> [1]: https://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/graphics.html#h-15.2.2 >> >> [2]: https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/indices.html#elements-3 > > As a person who writes web sites in HTML 3, I believe that frames have been > deprecated, and, I believe that the bolding ( Bold ) has also been > deprecated and replaced with strong or something similar. No need to believe. HTML 3[1] offers but not . HTML 4[2][3][4] offers and . HTML 5[5][6] offers and . is purely _presentational_, whereas indicates _importance_. The difference matters for example to accessibility tools such as screen readers. Frames were current up through HTML 4[7] but are non-conformant in HTML 5[8], although interestingly enough still described[9]. [1]: https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/html3/emphasis.html [2]: https://www.w3.org/TR/html4/index/elements.html [3]: https://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/graphics.html#edef-B [4]: https://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/text.html#edef-STRONG [5]: https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/text-level-semantics.html#the-b-element [6]: https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/text-level-semantics.html#the-strong-element [7]: https://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/frames.html#edef-FRAMESET [8]: https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/obsolete.html#non-conforming-features [9]: https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/obsolete.html#frames -- Michael Kjörling 🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se
Re: Minimalist HTML 4 viewer available?
> Frames were current up through HTML 4[7] but are non-conformant in > HTML 5[8], although interestingly enough still described[9]. Not sure if we're talking about the same "frames", but uMatrix has a column dedicated to frames and I see it used fairly frequently for captchas and online credit card payment elements. Stefan
Re: Debian 12 installation - installation USB stick boots to grub prompt
I have found how to get it to install, I removed the other (SATA SSD) disk drive. It now boots successfully, phew! I've no idea why that second drive breaks things. I installed it when I was still running xubuntu 24.04 and that OS could see the drive OK. I actually copied the whole of my old (xubuntu) installation across onto that drive. I will try putting it back later to see if it breaks the Debian 12 installtion but for the moment I'm just relieved I've got it working at last! Thanks for all the help everyone. I'll try and investigate why the drive broke things but that can wait until tomorrow, I'm worn out watching installations! :-) -- Chris Green
Re: Debian 12 installation - installation USB stick boots to grub prompt
Hi,
Chris Green wrote:
> > (proc) (memdisk) (lvm/q957--vg-swap_1) (lvm/q957--vg-root) (hd0)
> > (hd0,apple2) (hd0,apple1) (hd0,msdos2) (hd1) (hd1,gpt1) (hd2)
> > (hd2,msdos5) (hd2,msdos1)
David Wright wrote:
> So hd0 is the USB stick.
Looks like that. Apple Partition Map is not much in use on amd64 disks.
> I'm guessing appleX gives you a UEFI view, and msdos2 an MBR view.
If this is something like debian-12.7.0-amd64-netinst.iso , then
(hd0,apple1) is possibly the non-mountable overall Apple Partition Map
range entry.
(hd0,apple2) and (hd0,msdos2) would both point to the ISO's EFI
System Partition. Quite small: 9.5 MB.
(hd0) would be the ISO 9660 filesystem.
This is what i expect Linux to need as root filesystem.
---
Technical note:
David Wright wrote:
> The reason I used apple2 is because viewing
> gdisk debian-12.7.0-amd64-netinst.iso
> as a GPT partition table gives a listing with only partition 2.
debian-12.7.0-amd64-netinst.iso has three partition tables:
- A valid MBR ("msdos") partition table with unusual layout.
Partition 1 begins at LBA 0 and encloses partition 2.
(GRUB does not believe in such a partition and thus shows only
MBR partition 2 as (hd0,msdos2).)
Partition 2 marks the EFI boot image. This boot image serves as
EFI System Partition when booting starts from an USB stick.
- A valid Apple Partition Map which quite uselessly marks the EFI
boot image, too. EFI does not look at Apple partition maps.
(Historically it stems from a small HFS+ filesystem image, which
helpded Fedora ISOs to boot some pre-EFI Macs.)
- An invalid GPT, not announced by the MBR partition table.
Some older EFI firmwares do not consider a device for booting if it
does not have a GPT header block.
Have a nice day :)
Thomas
Re: Debian 12 installation - installation USB stick boots to grub prompt
I have found how to get it to install, I removed the other (SATA SSD) disk drive. It now boots successfully, phew! I've no idea why that second drive breaks things. I installed it when I was still running xubuntu 24.04 and that OS could see the drive OK. I actually copied the whole of my old (xubuntu) installation across onto that drive. I will try putting it back later to see if it breaks the Debian 12 installtion but for the moment I'm just relieved I've got it working at last! -- Chris Green
Re: Minimalist HTML 4 viewer available?
Hi, I do not know, if this is what you are searching for, but take a look at bluegriffon https://www.bluegriffon.org Also (if it must not the super modern tool), you can try "kompozer" or its successor "NVU" (but I believe, NVU is only for MAC and Windows). You searched for "small", but small is relative. There is also "Amaya", but maybe it is too big. Also you may like "Geany", which shall also be very small. Hope it helps, though Best regards Hans
Re: Edge on debian
On 04/11/2024 12:15, Hwa Peer wrote: Hello list, Have you anybody tried MS Edge browser on Debian desktop? I would be happy to hear your viewpoints on this app. Microsoft Edge is currently based on Chromium (the "Blink" engine); it used to be based on Internet Explorer (the "Trident" engine). Assuming that you're not trying to run the old version (e.g. you're not trying to use ActiveX plugins or similar) then, as someone else put it, why wouldn't you just use Chromium, or Google Chrome. Basically, to those who know, what you're asking is a bit like "Has anyone used File Explorer on Debian" or "Has anyone used Windows Update on Debian". Thanks. OpenPGP_signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Edge on debian
On Tue, Nov 05, 2024 at 05:21:15AM +0800, Bret Busby wrote: > On 5/11/24 04:35, Peter Ehlert wrote: > > > > > > On November 4, 2024 12:21:38 PM Bret Busby wrote: [...] > > Chromium also? Just asking > https://www.theregister.com/2024/07/12/chromium_api_system_information/ Thanks for that link. My take is that the perimeter of "free" is currently moving quickly: back then (TM) it was corporate secrets, patents and software licenses; since a while it's "hacker capture": Google (and Microsoft, and Facebook, and others, mind you) are, directly or indirectly, giving jobs (and tools, and perspective...) to most of our community. In exchange, they squat on strategic applications and services (Chrom*, Android, Github VSCode...) and shape them in ways that others (Firefox et al) *have* to follow. So while regulators are dragging Google to court for dominance in the browser (well for its misuse in search), they: - have pushed web devels to use their tools (Lighthouse) to "optimize" (for whom?) their web sites - have built dominance in mobile etc. etc. Same, of course, for the other biggies (and those named less often, like Palantir, etc.). The newest "frontier" [1] seems to be AI, a bit early to tell, but they seem to be betting on it. Cheers [1] Capitalism always needs a frontier, where it slashes and burns. As Hannah Arend put it [2], capitalism has to repeat its original robbery again and again. [2] https://ebrary.net/139733/economics/accumulation_endless_repetition_original -- tomás signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Edge on debian
On 5/11/24 04:35, Peter Ehlert wrote: On November 4, 2024 12:21:38 PM Bret Busby wrote: On 5/11/24 02:24, Darac Marjal wrote: On 04/11/2024 12:15, Hwa Peer wrote: Hello list, Have you anybody tried MS Edge browser on Debian desktop? I would be happy to hear your viewpoints on this app. Microsoft Edge is currently based on Chromium (the "Blink" engine); it used to be based on Internet Explorer (the "Trident" engine). Assuming that you're not trying to run the old version (e.g. you're not trying to use ActiveX plugins or similar) then, as someone else put it, why wouldn't you just use Chromium, or Google Chrome. Basically, to those who know, what you're asking is a bit like "Has anyone used File Explorer on Debian" or "Has anyone used Windows Update on Debian". Thanks. I understand google chrome to be spyware and a privacy and security threat. Chromium also? Just asking https://www.theregister.com/2024/07/12/chromium_api_system_information/ .. Bret Busby Armadale West Australia (UTC+0800) ..
Re: Edge on debian
On 5/11/24 04:34, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Tue, Nov 05, 2024 at 04:21:07 +0800, Bret Busby wrote: Microsoft Edge is currently based on Chromium (the "Blink" engine); it used to be based on Internet Explorer (the "Trident" engine). Assuming that you're not trying to run the old version (e.g. you're not trying to use ActiveX plugins or similar) then, as someone else put it, why wouldn't you just use Chromium, or Google Chrome. I understand google chrome to be spyware and a privacy and security threat. And you think Microsoft Edge isn't? Anyway, the suggestion was "Chromium, or Google Chrome". So, feel free to use or to ignore the suggestion as you see fit. I am not trhe one who wants to run MS Edge. I have not used an MS web browser, for many years, as I do not use MS Windows. .. Bret Busby Armadale West Australia (UTC+0800) ..
The Debian 12 failed installation saga - conclusion
Firstly, thank you everyone who tried to help, it was much appreciated, even if it maybe didn't sound like it (I was getting a bit frustrated). As I reported, removing the second disk drive (a 2TB SATA SSD), allowed me to to the install with no problems at all. I had installed the drive when the system was running xubuntu 24.04 and it worked perfectly, I installed a backup of the xubuntu 24.04. Having got Debian 12 up and running I decided to try and put the 2TB SATA SSD drive back. It all works fine! So the presence of the SATA SSD was only preventing the Debian installer from installing grub/boot, now they're installed the system boots quite happily with the drive installed. Very strange! :-) -- Chris Green
Re: Edge on debian
On Tue, Nov 05, 2024 at 04:21:07 +0800, Bret Busby wrote: > > Microsoft Edge is currently based on Chromium (the "Blink" engine); it > > used to be based on Internet Explorer (the "Trident" engine). Assuming > > that you're not trying to run the old version (e.g. you're not trying to > > use ActiveX plugins or similar) then, as someone else put it, why > > wouldn't you just use Chromium, or Google Chrome. > I understand google chrome to be spyware and a privacy and security threat. And you think Microsoft Edge isn't? Anyway, the suggestion was "Chromium, or Google Chrome". So, feel free to use or to ignore the suggestion as you see fit.
Re: Edge on debian
MHO, it works just like it does on MS-OS. So, we prefer FF and, for off-work, Brave. On 2024-11-04 11:21 a.m., Eric S Fraga wrote: Response below/inline for email Hwa Peer wrote: (original email sent 4 Nov 2024 at 20:15) Have you anybody tried MS Edge browser on Debian desktop? I would be happy to hear your viewpoints on this app. I installed it on one system because I have to use Teams for work and Teams would not work reliably on Firefox (or as the direct app). IME, Edge is typically MS: doesn't follow Linux standards and is a memory hog. Caveat: I now have Teams working with Firefox (separate profile which doesn't block as many things) so haven't used Edge in a few months. -- */ArbolOne ™/* Using Fire Fox and Thunderbird. ArbolOne is composed of students and volunteers dedicated to providing free services to charitable organizations. ArbolOne's development on Java, PostgreSQL, HTML and Jakarta EE is in progress [ í ]
Re: Edge on debian
On November 4, 2024 12:21:38 PM Bret Busby wrote: On 5/11/24 02:24, Darac Marjal wrote: On 04/11/2024 12:15, Hwa Peer wrote: Hello list, Have you anybody tried MS Edge browser on Debian desktop? I would be happy to hear your viewpoints on this app. Microsoft Edge is currently based on Chromium (the "Blink" engine); it used to be based on Internet Explorer (the "Trident" engine). Assuming that you're not trying to run the old version (e.g. you're not trying to use ActiveX plugins or similar) then, as someone else put it, why wouldn't you just use Chromium, or Google Chrome. Basically, to those who know, what you're asking is a bit like "Has anyone used File Explorer on Debian" or "Has anyone used Windows Update on Debian". Thanks. I understand google chrome to be spyware and a privacy and security threat. Chromium also? Just asking .. Bret Busby Armadale West Australia (UTC+0800) ..
Re: Minimalist HTML 4 viewer available?
On 4/11/24 23:26, Michael Kjörling wrote: On 4 Nov 2024 09:36 -0500, from monn...@iro.umontreal.ca (Stefan Monnier): Frames were current up through HTML 4[7] but are non-conformant in HTML 5[8], although interestingly enough still described[9]. Not sure if we're talking about the same "frames", but uMatrix has a column dedicated to frames and I see it used fairly frequently for captchas and online credit card payment elements. That probably includes iframes (inline frames). I was talking about the HTML pre-5 and related tags. It was also the and tags, to which I had previously referred. Insofar as I am aware, some or most HTML 5 web browsers do not recognise these frames, to the extent that I had to abandon the use of frames. I had found these frames, to have been quite useful, in the web sites that I had developed and maintained. .. Bret Busby Armadale West Australia (UTC+0800) ..
Re: Edge on debian
On 5/11/24 02:24, Darac Marjal wrote: On 04/11/2024 12:15, Hwa Peer wrote: Hello list, Have you anybody tried MS Edge browser on Debian desktop? I would be happy to hear your viewpoints on this app. Microsoft Edge is currently based on Chromium (the "Blink" engine); it used to be based on Internet Explorer (the "Trident" engine). Assuming that you're not trying to run the old version (e.g. you're not trying to use ActiveX plugins or similar) then, as someone else put it, why wouldn't you just use Chromium, or Google Chrome. Basically, to those who know, what you're asking is a bit like "Has anyone used File Explorer on Debian" or "Has anyone used Windows Update on Debian". Thanks. I understand google chrome to be spyware and a privacy and security threat. .. Bret Busby Armadale West Australia (UTC+0800) ..
Opening a URL with NetSurf from another application
Someone mentioned NetSurf recently here and I'm trying it out. It's an interesting "halfway" point between TUI browsers like Lynx/EWW, and monsters like Firefox. But I'd like to be able to send URLs to NetSurf and can't figure out how to do it. Am I missing something? Say you'd like to install it as your default browser: how would you get it to open a new tab in an existing window when, e.g. `xdg-open` needs it? Stefan
Failed Debian 12 install, need help with boot loader re-install
I just tried to install Debain 12 onto my Fujitsu Esprimo Q957 system (was running xubuntu previously). I have installed Debian 12 using the same USB stick on two other systems so the installation media are OK. The whole installation ran without any problems but it simply fails to boot, I just get a blank black screen with a prompt at the top left cormer. I'm attempting to re-install the boot loader using the graphical rescue from the USB stick but it's not at all clear which partition I should be installing it on. The system has two SSD drives - /dev/nvme0 and /dev/sda. I'm installing Debian on /dev/nvme0. When I go to re-install the boot loader I'm offered /dev/nvme0n1p1, /dev/nvme0n1p2 or /dev/nvme0n1p3 (plus /dev/sda of course but I don't want it there) but there's no indication which one of these I should put the boot loader on. On one of the systems where I have installed Debian 12 without problems it has:- FilesystemType 1M-blocks Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/mapper/t470--vg-root ext4936644 197158 691835 23% / /dev/nvme0n1p2ext2 456121311 29% /boot /dev/nvme0n1p1vfat 511 6506 2% /boot/efi Presumably the new/failed install will have a similar configuration The xubuntu installation worked fine from /dev/nvme0 so I don't think there's can be anything fundamentally wrong. Are there any BIOS settings I should check? Thanks for any/all help. -- Chris Green
Re: Failed Debian 12 install, need help with boot loader re-install
On Mon, Nov 04, 2024 at 11:10:03AM +, Chris Green wrote: > On Mon, Nov 04, 2024 at 05:34:49AM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: > > > > It's usually a good idea to disable CSM support (legacy/MBR booting), by > > whatever > > term your particular UEFI BIOS labels it. > > > The BIOS has "CSM Configuration", if I go into that I'm offered:- > > Launch CSM > Boot option filter > Launch PXE OpROM Policy > > If I disable "Launch CSM" then the other options disappear. With > "Launch CSM" disabled when I reboot the system it just drops me into > the BIOS diagnostic program and I can get no further. > > Similarly if I enable "Launch CSM" and set the "Boot option filter" to > "UEFI only" then on reboot I simply end up in the BIOS diagnostic > program again. > > Maybe I should try installing from scratch again with "Launch CSM" > disabled? (I'm glad this is a fairly fast system!) > ... and if "Launch CSM" is disabled then when I boot from the Debain 12 USB stick I just get dropped into the grub menu and I can't do an install. -- Chris Green
Re: Minimalist HTML 4 viewer available?
On 4 Nov 2024 06:00 +, from a...@strugglers.net (Andy Smith): > Installing 20+ year old software just to make sure it can never parse > HTML5 is total lunacy. There will be no support community for such a > thing for a start, so any problem you have is going to be a showstopper. Also, it shouldn't be particularly difficult, if one is so inclined, to create a file which (short of the doctype declaration) is _simultaneously_ valid HTML 2.0 (to say nothing of HTML 4) and HTML 5. Kind of like how _by design_ anything that is valid 7-bit US-ASCII is also simultaneously valid as UTF-8 representing the same Unicode code points. Yes, later versions of HTML have _added_ quite a lot of stuff, and perhaps slightly changed the default _semantics_ of some; but very little has been _removed_. (One biggie might be , which was deprecated as of HTML 4.01[1] and appears to be nonexistent in HTML 5[2].) [1]: https://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/graphics.html#h-15.2.2 [2]: https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/indices.html#elements-3 -- Michael Kjörling 🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se
Re: Failed Debian 12 install, need help with boot loader re-install
On Mon, Nov 04, 2024 at 05:34:49AM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: > Chris Green composed on 2024-11-04 10:03 (UTC): > > > I just tried to install Debain 12 onto my Fujitsu Esprimo Q957 system > > (was running xubuntu previously). I have installed Debian 12 using > > the same USB stick on two other systems so the installation media are > > OK. > > > The whole installation ran without any problems but it simply fails to > > boot, I just get a blank black screen with a prompt at the top left > > cormer. > > What kind of prompt? > Sorry, just a cursor, not a prompt. > > I'm attempting to re-install the boot loader using the graphical > > rescue from the USB stick but it's not at all clear which partition I > > should be installing it on. > > "Re-installing" bootloader has a different meaning with UEFI booting. One > does not > normally grub-install /dev/sda or /dev/nvme0n1 on UEFI systems. > > > The system has two SSD drives - /dev/nvme0 and /dev/sda. I'm > > installing Debian on /dev/nvme0. > > > When I go to re-install the boot loader I'm offered /dev/nvme0n1p1, > > /dev/nvme0n1p2 or /dev/nvme0n1p3 (plus /dev/sda of course but I don't > > want it there) but there's no indication which one of these I should > > put the boot loader on. > > > On one of the systems where I have installed Debian 12 without > > problems it has:- > > > FilesystemType 1M-blocks Used Avail Use% Mounted on > > /dev/mapper/t470--vg-root ext4936644 197158 691835 23% / > > /dev/nvme0n1p2ext2 456121311 29% /boot > > /dev/nvme0n1p1vfat 511 6506 2% /boot/efi > > The UEFI BIOS initiates boot by loading one or more files from the VFAT > filesystem, termed ESP, which mounts to /boot/efi/. > Ah, that doesn't seem to have happened with this install. Presumably that's the problem. How do I fix it ? > > Presumably the new/failed install will have a similar configuration > > > The xubuntu installation worked fine from /dev/nvme0 so I don't think > > there's can be anything fundamentally wrong. Are there any BIOS > > settings I should check? > > It's usually a good idea to disable CSM support (legacy/MBR booting), by > whatever > term your particular UEFI BIOS labels it. > > > Thanks for any/all help. > > Boot installation or rescue media in UEFI mode and provide us output from > parted > -l, lsblk -f and efibootmgr -v, plus content of fstab. When I boot from the installation USB stick in UEFI mode I just get a 'grub>' prompt so I can't run commands there. Just going to non-UEFI rescue mode I can get to a shell, then:- 'parted -l' shows 3 partitions for /dev/nvme0n1:- 1 primary ext2 2 exgtended 5 logical lvm /etc/fstab has:- /dev/mapper/q957--vg-root / ext4 /dev/mapper/q957--vg-swap_1 noneswap lsblk -f shows a tree with all the right bits of nvme0n1 on it, much too difficult to manually copy to here. I can't find efibootmgr anywhere. -- Chris Green
Re: Debian 12 installation - installation USB stick boots to grub prompt
Chris Green composed on 2024-11-04 12:36 (UTC): > This continues from my "Failed Debian 12 install..." thread earlier > today. > I can't get the USB Installation stick to boot into the Debian > installation process when I load it in UEFI mode. If I boot the USB > stick in UEFI mode it just takes me to the grub prompt. > I suspect that this is why, when I boot from the USB stick in BIOS > compatibility mode the resulting installation doesn't work. > Any ideas what I need to do to get the USB stick to boot properly in > USB mode? This has never happened to me, so I can do no more than speculate why. How did you make that stick? If it contains Ventoy, try making a normal stick with only the Bookworm .iso. You might try pre-partitioning the NVME in GPT mode with ESP partition instead of the current MBR mode. It may be necessary to force UEFI boot mode by using the BBS hotkey during POST, to get a list of devices from which to boot, and select a UEFI option matching your USB device. It might be necessary to disable CSM for this to work. Is a BIOS update available? > The hardware is a Fujitsu Esprimo Q957 system with a 2Gb NVME disk > drive. Installation on a quite similar Fujitsu Esprimo Q556 system > goes without a hitch (though that only has SATA drives). -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata
Re: Debian 12 installation - installation USB stick boots to grub prompt
Chris Green composed on 2024-11-04 12:36 (UTC): > This continues from my "Failed Debian 12 install..." thread earlier > today. > I can't get the USB Installation stick to boot into the Debian > installation process when I load it in UEFI mode. If I boot the USB > stick in UEFI mode it just takes me to the grub prompt. > I suspect that this is why, when I boot from the USB stick in BIOS > compatibility mode the resulting installation doesn't work. > Any ideas what I need to do to get the USB stick to boot properly in > USB mode? This has never happened to me, so I can do no more than speculate why. How did you make that stick? If it contains Ventoy, try making a normal stick with only the Bookworm .iso. You might try pre-partitioning the NVME in GPT mode with ESP partition instead of the current MBR mode. It may be necessary to force UEFI boot mode by using the BBS hotkey during POST, to get a list of devices from which to boot, and select a UEFI option matching your USB device. It might be necessary to disable CSM for this to work. Is a BIOS update available? https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch03s06.en.html#boot-dev-select-x86 contains other options for booting an ornery UEFI BIOS. (I didn't read it through to end before first send of this message.) > The hardware is a Fujitsu Esprimo Q957 system with a 2Gb NVME disk > drive. Installation on a quite similar Fujitsu Esprimo Q556 system > goes without a hitch (though that only has SATA drives). -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata
Re: Debian 12 installation - installation USB stick boots to grub prompt
> I suspect that this is why, when I boot from the USB stick in BIOS > compatibility mode the resulting installation doesn't work. Last time I did an install on a UEFI machine (most of my machines are too old, and of the two that aren't, one is running Coreboot 🙂), I found out that if the installation media is booted in "legacy BIOS" mode, then it can't do an install that boots via UEFI. IOW I had 3 choices: - Always boot using legacy BIOS mode. - Always boot using UEFI. - Boot the install using legacy BIOS, then manually change the install to use grub-efi, then reboot into my EFI config to "activate" the right `.efi` installed into the EFI partition. I started with the first choice, and then a few months later went through the trouble of the third which required more fiddling and reboots than I care to admit. Stefan
Re: Debian 12 installation - installation USB stick boots to grub prompt
> If I boot from the USB stick (isohybrid image) in Legacy mode then it > all **appears** to work, installation completes, but then the system > won't boot. What kind of boot loader did you install? `grub-efi`, `grub-pc`, something else? Does your Debian install's boot fail in exactly the same way if you ask your firmware to boot using legacy BIOS? > I don't see how I can opt to either "Always boot using legacy BIOS > mode" or "Always boot using UEFI". In my firmware, I can/could choose which boot mode to activate. So on the Debian side I installed `grub-pc` and on the firmware side I activated the legacy mode. That made it boot successfully using legacy BIOS mode. > How would I "Boot the install using legacy BIOS, then manually change > the install to use grub-efi", I can't see anywhere in the installation > process that would allow me to do this. That's why I said "manually". Stefan
Re: Minimalist HTML 4 viewer available?
>>> Frames were current up through HTML 4[7] but are non-conformant in >>> HTML 5[8], although interestingly enough still described[9]. >> Not sure if we're talking about the same "frames", but uMatrix has >> a column dedicated to frames and I see it used fairly frequently for >> captchas and online credit card payment elements. > That probably includes iframes (inline frames). I was talking about > the HTML pre-5 and related tags. Ah, thanks, makes sense! Stefan
Re: Debian 12 installation - installation USB stick boots to grub prompt
On Mon 04 Nov 2024 at 09:41:36 (-0600), David Wright wrote: > On Mon 04 Nov 2024 at 15:27:44 (+), Chris Green wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 04, 2024 at 09:09:31AM -0600, David Wright wrote: > > > On Mon 04 Nov 2024 at 12:36:18 (+), Chris Green wrote: > > > > This continues from my "Failed Debian 12 install..." thread earlier > > > > today. > > > > > > > > I can't get the USB Installation stick to boot into the Debian > > > > installation process when I load it in UEFI mode. If I boot the USB > > > > stick in UEFI mode it just takes me to the grub prompt. > > > > > > It may help to know whether that's a grub> prompt > > > or a grub rescue> prompt. The latter takes a bit more > > > work to recover from. > > > > > It's just a "grub>". > > > > > > > Whichever, does typing ls produce a listing of some sort? > > > > > Oh yes:- > > > > (proc) (memdisk) (lvm/q957--vg-swap_1) (lvm/q957--vg-root) (hd0) > > (hd0,apple2) (hd0,apple1) (hd0,msdos2) (hd1) (hd1,gpt1) (hd2) > > (hd2,msdos5) (hd2,msdos1) > > So hd0 is the USB stick. I'm not familiar with the view you have > there, so try things like: > > ls (hd0,apple1)/ > ls (hd0,apple2)/ > ls (hd0,msdos2)/ > > I'm guessing appleX gives you a UEFI view, and msdos2 an MBR view. > > If you see directories, try listing them. (Command recall should work > to save typing.) > > (In the other thread, c didn't work because you were already > at the command prompt that c gives you.) Looking at the ISO for Debian 12.7, it looks as if you might be able to boot into the installer with something like: grub> set root=(hd0,apple2) grub> linux install.amd/vmlinuz grub> initrd install.amd/initrd.gz If you want expert install (my preference), you might write: linux install.amd/vmlinuz priority=low instead. If you have to have a graphical installer, you might get one with install.amd/gtk/ in place of install.amd/ . The reason I used apple2 is because viewing gdisk debian-12.7.0-amd64-netinst.iso as a GPT partition table gives a listing with only partition 2. But you lose nothing by trying any and all possibilities. Cheers, David.
Re: Debian 12 installation - installation USB stick boots to grub prompt
On Mon, Nov 04, 2024 at 11:19:50AM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > If I boot from the USB stick (isohybrid image) in Legacy mode then it > > all **appears** to work, installation completes, but then the system > > won't boot. > > What kind of boot loader did you install? `grub-efi`, `grub-pc`, > something else? I'm not given a choice, it just installs whatever it thinks is right (I assume). > Does your Debian install's boot fail in exactly the same way if you ask > your firmware to boot using legacy BIOS? > Yes, I just tried that, set 'Legacy only' in the BIOS and I get to the same non-working, blank screen. > > I don't see how I can opt to either "Always boot using legacy BIOS > > mode" or "Always boot using UEFI". > > In my firmware, I can/could choose which boot mode to activate. > So on the Debian side I installed `grub-pc` and on the firmware side > I activated the legacy mode. That made it boot successfully using > legacy BIOS mode. > Yes, I can select 'legacy only' in the BIOS but I don't see anwhere that I can select `grub-pc` to install. > > How would I "Boot the install using legacy BIOS, then manually change > > the install to use grub-efi", I can't see anywhere in the installation > > process that would allow me to do this. > > That's why I said "manually". > > > Stefan > > -- Chris Green
