Re: Network speed drop down to 10MBPS for unknown reason.

[Muhammad Yousuf Khan]

@Bzzz, cables are self made.

@bob
if you mean speed and duplex mode then here is the detail

Supported ports: [ TP ]
Supported link modes:   10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full
100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full
1000baseT/Full
Supports auto-negotiation: Yes
Advertised link modes:  10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full
100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full
1000baseT/Full
Advertised pause frame use: No
Advertised auto-negotiation: Yes
Speed: 1000Mb/s
Duplex: Full
Port: Twisted Pair



On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 2:25 AM, Bob Proulx  wrote:

> Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:
> > i am using wheezy 7.x and for some unknown reason my network speed drop
> > down to 10MBPS.
> > i can see anything in /var/log/messages and /var/log/syslog related to
> the
> > issue. when i restart the server it back to normal and shows above 50MBPS
> > while transferring file.
> > any idea what is happening .
>
> Please report what ethtool says about it.
>
>   # apt-get install ethtool
>   # ethtool eth0
>
> Bob
>

Re: embrace, extend, extinguish

[Miles Fidelman]

Doug wrote:


On 09/03/2014 12:50 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:

On 9/3/14, Lisi Reisz  wrote:

On Tuesday 02 September 2014 17:06:58 Steve Litt wrote:

So, Lisi, is it your contention that the developers don't look at this
list, and don't care what's written on it?
By and large, yes.  If you want to communicate with developers, 
communicate


with developers.  Some of them hang around here.  But it is not the 
way to
communicate with them.  Don't deafen poor defenseless users. This 
list is

for
support of users, not the lobbying of developers.  There are other 
lists.



OK, guys. What is the best way to communicate with developers, not just
in the Debian crew, but devs from other popular systems, like Ubuntu,
PCLOS, Centos, etc.

BTW: I get the impression that the most serious charge against the
systemd people is not that systemd is different, or even that it subsumes
other files and apps that up to now were free-standing, but that it
makes the entire system more difficult if not impossible to troubleshoot,
due to the tremendous interdependence of apps, plus the lack of
readable logs. But I'm not a dev, maybe I'm wrong.


That sure seems to be a major concern to me.  Not as a dev, but as a 
system admin.  Udev alone still gives me headaches, at times.  
I can't wait to see what kind of headaches I'm going to have once it's 
bundled together with systemd. 


By the way, a quick perusal of the debian-devel and debian-boot archives 
shows that systemd is causing a respectable share of headaches for 
developers - including things like udebs (install-time modules) that 
can't load because systemd is not available at boot time, systemd-shim 
being way behind (making it rather hard to run without systemd as PID1), 
and so forth.


As a sysadmin (user) that kind of thing is going to have lots of impact 
in terms of how I have to recofigure servers as I update them.


A steady stream of information about what impacts systemd is going to 
have on our systems, and how to work around these, is incredibly useful 
-- and I really don't care if it's accompanied by (IMHO well-deserved) 
complaints about systemd.


On the other hand, I really wish those who only seem to know how to say 
"stop talking about systemd" would kindly shut up.   It's a pain having 
to sort out and delete all those useless messages from threads that are 
otherwise useful -- my delete-key finger is getting tired.


Miles Fidelman






--
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In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra


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Re: embrace, extend, extinguish

[Brian]

On Wed 03 Sep 2014 at 07:54:25 +0200, Erwan David wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 02, 2014 at 11:14:52PM CEST, Martin Read  
> said:
> > On 02/09/14 19:55, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> > >Erwan David wrote:
> > >
> > >>aptitude remove systemd -> downgrade almost everything to stable...
> > >>Ok no program present in stable should depend on systemd...
> > >>
> > >>that's a lot of bugs to open...
> > >
> > >
> > >Erwan, the whole of my Wheezy desktop system as I know it seems to be
> > >locked into 'libsystemd-login0' and imposable to remove, somebody
> > >correct me if I'm wrong..please!
> > 
> > The libsystemd-login0 package is required because some major components are
> > built with support for systemd functionality, which they obtain by linking
> > against the libsystemd-login shared library. Programs which are linked
> > against a given shared library require that shared library to be present in
> > order to run.
> > 
> > *Supporting* systemd functionality is, of course, not the same thing as
> > *requiring* that functionality to be present.
> 
> lauching systemd-logind (which they do) is actually requiring it, no ?
> 
> (samething that all those softs which start gconf daemon)
> 
> Did someone try to *remove* pam-systemd from their configuration ?
> (after all if I do not use the feature, I should be able to configure the 
> system for not using it).

An informed and high-quality technical post from Martin Read followed
by a few bucketfuls of misleading nonsense drawn from the well of
advocacy ignorance.


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Re: OT: Strange boot behavior after upgrade on Asus chromebook (SOLVED)

[Joel Roth]

On Tue, Sep 02, 2014 at 12:39:49AM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
> This posting is slightly off-topic because the OS in
> question is Ubuntu, which I ended up using because the
> chromebook install procedure seemed better documented. (It
> took me a few days to get any non-chrome install to
> succeed.)
> 
> It is possibly on-topic because 
> * I am a debian user
> * it relates to upstart, which has been considered as
>   an alternative to sysvinit
> * Debian users may be interested in some of the differences
>   between debian and ubuntu.
> * It reports an actual user experience
> 
> The PC is a $200 chromebook that I set up for my dad to use.
> I visit him a few couple times a year, so I try
> to keep the system simple and reliable as possible.
> 
> After logging on I get a message something like this on the
> console:
> 
> Hey! An upgrade is available for your LTS Trusty
> installation. It includes 265 security updates.
> run "do-release-upgrade" to get the goods.
> 
> I'm thinking it will be simple. And security 
> is good, right? Hah hah!
> 
> tl;dr: At least it still boots.
> 
> First, LTS signified to me that it is an upgrade
> intended to keep compatibility and stability.
> Boy was that wrong!
> 
> Next thing that stood out, is that the progress
> output messages during the upgrade are 
> different enough to suggest a lot of engineering
> has gone into it. Not all good, IMO.
> 
> It took a few iterations for the full upgrade to be
> completed, probably because I'd (wisely it turns out) let
> a couple years lapse since the initial installation.
> 
> Then lots of the usual questions during the upgrade.
> Do I keep the original config file or use the 
> developer's version?
> 
> Answering a lot of these questions starts to numb your
> brain, and trying to get through quickly, I made two
> mistakes:
> 
> First, I accidentally consented to replacing /etc/sudoers. Duh!
> That was a small one. Next was saying "yes" to install
> grub-pc on /dev/sda.
> 
> What was stupid about that is that the chromebook is very
> finicky about booting. I shouldn't have touched it at all,
> but was somehow afraid that if I didn't, the upgraded
> kernel versions might not be started.
> 
> Additional stupidity was not backing up the system.
> I'm so used to my sid upgrades going without hiccups
> that I forgot that upgrades are actually akin
> to brain surgery in terms of the chances of something
> going wrong.
> 
> Now the kicker: When booting, I first get some
> frightening message about selinux not being found.
> Then I get the login prompt, with no cursor, no
> terminal echo, and login fails.
> 
> Is this due to upstart? Or grub-pc?
> 
> I'm getting ready for a horrible nightmare...
> 
> Then, oh beneficence! Thanks to muscle memory, I randomly
> type WindowsKey RightArrow (an i3 window manager key
> binding). Lo and behold! The screen clears and I get a fresh
> login prompt *with* echo (still no cursor) and login
> succeeds this time.
> 
> I tried rebooting again, a few times, and found
> I always need this key combination.
> (I didn't investigate if other key combinations will
> work.)
> 
> Although having to do this probably this won't bother my dad, 
> I am ashamed of a Unix system being so arbitrary.
> 
> Ubuntu also sucks for this application because my dad uses
> icewm, while Ubuntu includes heavy stuff like compiz and
> gnome. Oh well, at least my foot is still basically intact!!

Thanks for the (privately mailed) responses. 

I discovered that while the console is corrupted on tty3
(where I ended after upstart) I can log in with no problems
on tty1. WindowsKey-RightArrow was just changing me to
another tty.

Kind regards,

Joel


 
> Cheers,
> 
> Joel
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Joel Roth
>   
> 
> 
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> 

-- 
Joel Roth
  


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Re: Debian 7.X : 2TB HD installation successful but not booting

[Darac Marjal]

On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 10:43:50AM +0500, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:
>i have a 2TB hard disk and installation went fine no errors. however i can
>not manage to boot it from hard disk.

What  happens when  you  try? Any  error  messages? Do  you  just get  a
blinking cursor? Does the  PC explode in a ball of  flames each time you
try?

>my partitions are like this.
>1. /boot : Boot Flag ON. 
>1. Swap : Boot Flag Off. 
>1. /       : Boot Flag off. 

I'm going to assume  that this is an MBR partition  table and that those
partitions are  actually 1, 2  and 3 (that  is, the first  three primary
partitions).

Did you install grub into the  MBR of the drive? The installation should
have asked if you wanted that.

>but the weird part is when i press "F10" and select harddrive to boot it
>amazingly boot. it seems like more of a BIOS issue but the same system is
>booting fine with a 250GB drive.

BIOS can only  ever boot from one device. Typically,  this is defined in
the "Boot Order" menu, somewhere in  the BIOS menu. The normal procedure
for a BIOS  with several options is  to try the various  boot devices in
the specified order  and look for a valid boot  loader. So, for example,
it'll check the  floppy drive and boot  from the disk there  if there is
one. If not, it'll check the CD  drive for a disk. Finally it'll look at
the hard disks. Now,  if it finds a valid boot loader  on the first disk
it looks at, then it's not going to look at the other disks.

The boot loader it looks at is, of course, free to do whatever it likes.
So a common thing to do is put  GRUB onto one disk, nominate that as the
"master" (i.e.  the one that  the BIOS jumps to)  and have that  copy of
grub either load operating systems from other disks or to chain-load the
bootloader on the other disks.

>any idea what is going on.
>Thanks,
>MYK
>  


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Re: embrace, extend, extinguish

[Martin Read]

On 03/09/14 06:54, Erwan David wrote:

lauching systemd-logind (which they do) is actually requiring it, no ?


Point. (I find myself instinctively reading "requiring systemd" as 
"requiring systemd as PID 1", so I tend to say "requiring a component of 
the systemd suite" when talking about things that depend on, say, 
systemd-logind or systemd-udevd.)



(samething that all those softs which start gconf daemon)

Did someone try to *remove* pam-systemd from their configuration ?
(after all if I do not use the feature, I should be able to configure the 
system for not using it).


I haven't tried it. However, I've now had a look at the situation in 
Debian jessie as it currently stands, using the interactive mode of the 
aptitude package management tool.


To remove the package libpam-systemd from a current Debian jessie 
system, you have to remove the packages gdm3, gnome-bluetooth, lightdm, 
policykit-1, udisks2, and network-manager.


(I dare say many of the people who are opposed to depending on systemd 
components would say "no loss there, then" about some of those.)


Various desktop-environment metapackages all result in installing at 
least one package that has a Depends: entry for at least one of the 
packages listed above:


* Metapackage gnome-core Depends on gdm3, gnome-bluetooth, and 
policykit-1-gnome, the last of which Depends on policykit-1.


* Metapackage kde-standard Depends on polkit-kde-1, which Depends on 
policykit-1.


* Metapackage task-lxde-desktop Depends on lightdm, and metapackage lxde 
Recommends it. Metapackage lxde-core does not even Suggest lightdm.


* Metapackage mate-desktop-environment-core Depends on mate-polkit, 
which Depends on policykit-1.


* Metapackage razorqt depends on razorqt-policykit-agent, which depends 
on policykit-1.


The following x-display-manager providers do not have a Depends 
reference that would automatically drag in one of the packages that 
Depend on libpam-systemd:


* kdm
* slim
* wdm
* xdm

And of course, various standalone providers of x-window-manager do not 
Depend on libpam-systemd.


So as far as I can see, yes, you *can* install a Debian jessie system 
with a GUI and an X display manager that does not require 
libpam-systemd. (Unless you want to use the full functionality of an HP 
printer, since at least as built in Debian jessie the package hplip 
Depends on the package policykit-1.)


Something you can't do, though, is install a *fully-featured* GNOME, 
MATE, KDE, LXDE, or RazorQt desktop environment.



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Re: How to mount a LUKS partiotion with Nautilus with option discard?

[Jochen Spieker]

Joerg Desch:
> Am Tue, 02 Sep 2014 23:59:38 +0200 schrieb Jochen Spieker:
> 
>> This is missing the discard flag from your crypttab entry. It appears
>> that Gnome ignores your settings.
> 
> Is it ignored by Gnome or by udisk?

I have no idea. I suggested to file the bug against Nautilus because it
is the interface you are using. Either way, don't be afraid to pick the
wrong package. The maintainers will probably know best which package to
reassign your bug report to.

J.
-- 
My medicine shelf is my altar.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 


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Re: Network speed drop down to 10MBPS for unknown reason.

[Bzzzz]

On Wed, 3 Sep 2014 14:25:14 +0500
Muhammad Yousuf Khan  wrote:

> @Bzzz, cables are self made.

Then did you respect the wiring code of colors,
and what is the length of these?

-- 
 BTW, why don't you have optical fiber in your building?
 The last time I asked the property management company, they
answered me I can install a telescope on my balcony because
no law forbids it.
 Indeed…


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Re: 2 GDM3 questions

[Rob Owens]

- Original Message -
> From: "Bob Proulx" 
> 
> Rob Owens wrote:
> > Paul van der Vlis wrote:
> > > Another GDM3 question:
> > > How can I change the "system default" desktop for all users?
> > 
> > I *think* this might be set by running update-alternatives --config
> > x-window-manager
> 
> I think x-session-manager instead. :-)
> 
My Jessie system doesn't have /etc/alternatives/x-session-manager, just 
x-window-manager.  Maybe it's because I don't have a desktop environment 
installed?  I just have fluxbox, and /etc/alternatives/x-session-manager points 
to /usr/bin/startfluxbox.

-Rob


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IPv6 neighbor solicitations to use link-local source address

[Julien boooo]

Hello everybody

I'm very new to lists.debian.org so please appologize if I am doing
something wrong by sending this email. I'm just out of idea with a behavior
in NDP and must find a solution. I didn't find anything on the internet.

RFC4861 section 7.2.2 says that the source address in NDP neighbor
solicitations can be any one of the addresses assigned to the interface. It
also says that using the prompting packet's source address ensures that the
recipient installs it in its neighbor cache.
The latter is the behavior I can see on my boxes (a debian 6.0.9 + custom
kernel 3.2.14) and also on a Centos one.

# ip -6 addr list
1: lo:  mtu 16436
inet6 ::1/128 scope host
   valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
3: eth0:  mtu 1500 qlen 1000
inet6 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::32/64 scope global
   valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
inet6 fe80::a00:27ff:fe02:3cbd/64 scope link
   valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever

# ping6 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::33 -c 3 &>/dev/null &
# tcpdump -nli eth0 icmp6

18:09:04.726908 IP6 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::32 > ff02::1:ff00:33: ICMP6,
neighbor solicitation, who has 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::33, length 32
18:09:04.727373 IP6 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::33 > 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::32:
ICMP6, neighbor advertisement, tgt is 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::33, length
32
18:09:04.727391 IP6 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::32 > 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::33:
ICMP6, echo request, seq 1, length 64
18:09:04.727738 IP6 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::33 > 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::32:
ICMP6, echo reply, seq 1, length 64


My question is : How can I force ndp to use the link-local address assigned
to that outgoing device ? (in the trace above, ndp would then send the
neighbor solicitation with fe80::a00:27ff:fe02:3cbd source address).

This is requested by our customer for security reasons and as far as I can
see it complies with RFC4861 as well.

If someone had a clue how to do that or if it's just impossible, I would
really appreciate your help.

Thank you
Best resgards
Julien

Re: finding a dependency chain

[Rob Owens]

- Original Message -
> From: "Kelly Clowers" 
> 
> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Rob Owens  wrote:
> > I'm trying to figure out, for example, what causes brasero to ultimately
> > depend on systemd.  I found a utility called debtree, but it produces too
> > much output to be of use to me -- it shows all dependency chains starting
> > at brasero, but I am only interested in the one that ends at systemd.
> >
> > Can anybody suggest another utility, or maybe the proper syntax to make
> > debtree do what I want?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > -Rob
> 
> I just used vim to search through debtree's .dot output (for such a
> complex thing, way easier than trying to look at the image file), and
> then followed up by looking around in aptitude interactive mode.
> 
Thanks.  That is much easier than looking at the image file!

I'd still like to find a method to specify the start point and end point, and 
get output of a single dependency chain.  If anybody knows a way, please post 
it.

-Rob


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Re: brasero requires gvfs

[Rob Owens]

- Original Message -
> From: "Patrick Bartek" 
> 
> On Tue, 02 Sep 2014, Rob Owens wrote:
> 
> > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Michael Biebl" 
> > > 
> > > Am 02.09.2014 22:18, schrieb Rob Owens:
> > > > I removed the systemd package from my Jessie system, and it took
> > > > brasero with it.  Brasero depends on gvfs, and gvfs has some
> > > > trail of dependencies that leads to systemd.  I'm thinking that
> > > > the gvfs dependency doesn't make sense for brasero, but I wanted
> > > > to get input from this list before I file a bug against brasero.
> > > > 
> > > > Can anybody think of a valid reason why brasero should depend on
> > > > gvfs?
> > > 
> > > brasero depends on gvfs so it can detect removable media.
> > > For a burning application this is pretty much essential.
> > > 
> > Ah, I was thinking about the SMB:// features and things like that.  I
> > didn't realize gvfs was used to detect removable media.
> 
> Also, brasero is a GNOME app.  So, it's going to have GNOME dependencies
> to work properly.  If you're using the default XFCE desktop with Jessie,
> why not try XFCE's xfburn instead.  On my GNOME-free (Openbox only)
> Wheezy system, I use it. Runs fine for what little burning I do.
> 
Thanks for the suggestion.  I use fluxbox, by the way.  xfburn looks like it'll 
work.  Personally I don't mind using command line for this type of thing, but I 
support/recommend systems of family and friends and they need a gui.  cdw is a 
neat option for those too nerdy for a gui but not nerdy enough for command line.

xfburn is apparently aware that my cd drive is currently empty.  Does anybody 
know what it uses to detect this?  It is not using gvfs.

-Rob



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IPV6 dns server running on IPV4 Connection??

[John Foster]

I have Verizon as my ISP; of course they don't want or allow the running 
of static addressed servers. However they seem to be ignoring most IPV6 
systems connection. I.E. I can browse IPV6 network connections and my 
router from Verizon has IPV6 settings enabled for both DHCPv6 & Staticv6 
connections. I am wondering if it would be possible to set up bind to 
run on my server with IPV6 initialized and run my server using it as an 
IPV6 static site while they (Verizon) happily use the same IPV4 
installation they are already using. Could this setup coexist on one 
machine. BTW: I am able to set up IPV6 DNS thru Godaddy at their dns 
zone manager for my server, to point to my unique IPV6 address. Only 
issue thereafter is where to get the proper IPV6 unique addres for my 
machine.

ANY suggestions or comment are greatly appreciated.
john


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brasero requires systemd-sysv

[Rob Owens]

brasero depends on systemd-sysv.  Here is the chain of dependencies I've 
identified, with the help of some folks on this list:

brasero -> gvfs -> gvfs-daemons -> udisks2 -> libpam-systemd -> systemd-sysv 

For now I'd like to ignore the option of using systemd-shim and just examine 
why a cd burning application depends on a particular init system.  My goal is 
to either 1) understand why it has to be this way, or 2) understand enough that 
I can submit a bug for one of the above packages to break this chain.

Michael Biebl already informed me that brasero uses gvfs to detect removable 
media (thanks for that).  Apparently there are other methods available (xfburn 
doesn't use gvfs), but the brasero developers have chosen to use gvfs.  

I'm going to need help understanding the rest of the dependencies.

I'd also like to know if there are any features of brasero that *really* 
require systemd to be used as the init system -- features that would not work 
with sysvinit.  I'm hoping Michael or some other developers can chime in on 
this one.

-Rob


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Re: embrace, extend, extinguish

[Andre N Batista]

On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 07:25:21AM +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Wednesday 03 September 2014 06:56:53 Erwan David wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 07:25:19AM CEST, Lisi Reisz  
> said:
> > > On Wednesday 03 September 2014 06:19:15 Doug wrote:
> > > > OK, guys. What is the best way to communicate with developers, not just
> > > > in the Debian crew, but devs from other popular systems, like Ubuntu,
> > > > PCLOS, Centos, etc.
> > >
> > > The Debian ones, on the Debian developers list.
> >
> > ANd on the debian developper list you'll get this list is for
> > discussion between developpers, those are users problems go to debian
> > users".
> 
> Have you tried?  "Those" are clearly not users problems.  Users can do 
> nothing 
> about it.  Only developers can.  But no, they will not let people just winge. 
>  
> quite right too.
>

So having us all agreed that Steve is on the right side of History,
should we ask Ralf to come back? He sure could keep threads going.

We need young blood with lots of free time to cover irc and maling lists
used by devs.

Do echo chambers work on the internet? Let's scream louder so our pain
is made seen and our actions understood by those who will follow us.


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Re: brasero requires systemd-sysv

[Bzzzz]

On Wed, 3 Sep 2014 11:12:24 -0400 (EDT)
Rob Owens  wrote:

> I'd also like to know if there are any features of brasero that
> *really* require systemd to be used as the init system -- features
> that would not work with sysvinit.  I'm hoping Michael or some other
> developers can chime in on this one.

This doesn't work like that; it is a _chain_ of dependencies.

You wrote:
brasero -> gvfs -> gvfs-daemons -> udisks2 -> libpam-systemd ->
systemd-sysv

which is much more:
brasero <- gvfs <- gvfs-daemons <- udisks2 <- libpam-systemd <-
systemd-sysv

Meaning:
libpam-systemd  depends on systemd-sysv
udisk2 ""  libpam-systemd
gvfs-daemons   ""  udisk2
gvfs   ""  gvfs-daemons
brasero""  gvfs

Kinda (reduced;): a key is needed for my car to start and gas too (2
deps), a road is needed to run my car, I need a car to go to wallmart
which is 10 miles away.


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Re: brasero requires systemd-sysv

[The Wanderer]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 09/03/2014 at 11:41 AM, B wrote:

> On Wed, 3 Sep 2014 11:12:24 -0400 (EDT) Rob Owens  
> wrote:
> 
>> I'd also like to know if there are any features of brasero that 
>> *really* require systemd to be used as the init system --
>> features that would not work with sysvinit.  I'm hoping Michael
>> or some other developers can chime in on this one.
> 
> This doesn't work like that; it is a _chain_ of dependencies.

Which is in fact part of the problem: it results in something which does
not have anything to do with a particular init system "depending on"
that init system.

Such indirect dependencies are one thing when it comes to libraries,
runtimes, and so forth, but very much another when it comes to such a
low-level system component as the init system. (The more so because the
libraries and runtimes and so forth don't tend to conflict with one
another and can be installed in parallel, whereas only one init system
can be running at a time.)

In this case, the dependency chain can be broken by the alternative
dependency 'libpam-systemd -> systemd-shim' (the latter of which is not
actually part of, and only indirectly related to, systemd), but that's a
workaround; the base problem still exists.

IMO, any functionality which anything not part of the init system might
legitimately want to depend on - such as the functionality needed by
libpam-systemd - should be implemented first, primarily, and indeed
probably *only* as something that is *not* part of the init system.

Indeed, my understanding is that the cgroups-management functionality
needed by libpam-systemd was initially implemented separately in logind
and in the 'PID 1' systemd (and possibly elsewhere), and then refactored
so as to have only one implementation - the one in PID 1. It was only
after that that someone else, not related (AFAIK) to the systemd
project, implemented a standalone version via systemd-shim and the
separate cgmanager project.

One of the problems is that the systemd project seems to default to
implementing potentially-independent things internally, instead of
implementing them standalone and then making systemd (or whatever it is
they wanted the new things for) depend on the standalone implementation.
This leads to there being only the systemd-internal implementation, in
at least some cases, and thus to the systemd lockin which is one of the
things people complain about.

- -- 
   The Wanderer

Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.

A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.
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Re: brasero requires systemd-sysv

[Darac Marjal]

On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 11:12:24AM -0400, Rob Owens wrote:
> brasero depends on systemd-sysv.  Here is the chain of dependencies I've 
> identified, with the help of some folks on this list:
> 
> brasero -> gvfs -> gvfs-daemons -> udisks2 -> libpam-systemd -> systemd-sysv 

No hard evidence of this, but my reasoning would be:
* brasero needs gvfs because it wants to access disks, gvfs is the GNOME
  preferred way to do so.
* gvfs needs gvfs-daemons because gvfs-daemons is the actual workhorse.
  gvfs contains the GIO modules which applications use, but gvfs-daemons
  contains the code which queries the disks etc.
* gvfs-daemons depends on udisks2 because udisks2 is a desktop-oriented
  interface to various common hard disks. gvfs-daemons appears to
  provide a superset of udisks's capabilities, though because it also
  depends on things like libbluray1.
* udisks2 depends on libpam-systemd. I suspect this is so that udisks
  can access, for example, USB keys inserted at the console. This has
  been a kludgey point for a while - how do you allow someone sitting at
  a console to plug in a USB key and access that (in the same manner
  that they are given access to the local keyboard, video card etc) but
  restrict that to other users of the computer? libpam-systemd (and thus
  logind) solve this by marking a login as being from the console and
  applications can then tie things to that.
* libpam-systemd depends on systemd-sysv because it needs, for example,
  the cgroups functionality which compartmentalises the processes of a
  console user.

So, it's not that brasero needs systemd (if it did, it would probably
say so), but rather it depends on utilities which - in addition to the
features directly needed by brasero - provide features provided by
systemd.

This is akin, perhaps, to wondering why brasero depends on libxdmcp
(brasero -> libcairo2 -> libx11-6 -> libxcb1 -> libxdmcp6). Brasero
doesn't need XDMCP access itself, but it depends (indirectly) on a
library which does.

> 
> For now I'd like to ignore the option of using systemd-shim and just examine 
> why a cd burning application depends on a particular init system.  My goal is 
> to either 1) understand why it has to be this way, or 2) understand enough 
> that I can submit a bug for one of the above packages to break this chain.
> 
> Michael Biebl already informed me that brasero uses gvfs to detect removable 
> media (thanks for that).  Apparently there are other methods available 
> (xfburn doesn't use gvfs), but the brasero developers have chosen to use 
> gvfs.  
> 
> I'm going to need help understanding the rest of the dependencies.
> 
> I'd also like to know if there are any features of brasero that *really* 
> require systemd to be used as the init system -- features that would not work 
> with sysvinit.  I'm hoping Michael or some other developers can chime in on 
> this one.
> 
> -Rob
> 
> 
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Re: brasero requires systemd-sysv

[John Hasler]

thumper/~ 19 apt-cache show libpam-systemd
Package: libpam-systemd
Source: systemd
Version: 208-8
Installed-Size: 114
Maintainer: Debian systemd Maintainers 

Architecture: amd64
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.14), libcap2 (>= 1:2.10), libdbus-1-3 (>= 1.0.2), libpam0g 
(>= 0.99.7.1), systemd (= 208-8), libpam-runtime (>= 1.0.1-6), dbus, 
systemd-sysv | systemd-shim (>= 6-4)
Pre-Depends: multiarch-support
Description-en: system and service manager - PAM module
 systemd is a replacement for sysvinit.  It is dependency-based and
 able to read the LSB init script headers in addition to parsing rcN.d
 links as hints.

Note the "|" between systemd-sysv and systemd-shim.  That means OR.

thumper/~ 19 apt-cache show systemd-shim
Package: systemd-shim
Version: 7-1
Installed-Size: 41
Maintainer: Steve Langasek 
Architecture: amd64
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.4), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.37.3), cgmanager
Suggests: pm-utils
Description-en: shim for systemd
 This package emulates the systemd function that are required to run
 the systemd helpers without using the init service


This shim was created to allow the installation of packages that use
bits of Systemd without requiring the use of Systemd as init.  It's a
consequence of the lack of backward compatibility in Systemd.


Thus Brasero does not require that Systemd be init.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA


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Re: brasero requires systemd-sysv

[Bzzzz]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 12:14:16 -0400
The Wanderer  wrote:

[SNIP]

You are preaching to the choir, Wanderer ;)

- From all that I read, my conviction is Linux was becoming way too
secured, ssl too (despite of recent events), thus systemd will add
weaknesses (that's automatic: the more domains you dig and the more
number of lines in the project = the more the number of "bugs" raises);
that'll ease Linux stealth penetrations…
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Re: Network speed drop down to 10MBPS for unknown reason.

[Alexandre Ferrieux]

On Tuesday, September 2, 2014 3:50:02 PM UTC+2, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:
> i am using wheezy 7.x and for some unknown reason my network speed drop down 
> to 10MBPS. 
> i can see anything in /var/log/messages and /var/log/syslog related to the 
> issue. when i restart the server it back to normal and shows above 50MBPS 
> while transferring file.
> any idea what is happening . 

When you say "my network speed", are you referring to the average bandwidth of 
a TCP transfer ? sending or receiving ?

Can you post somewhere a pair of pcap files (one in the fast case, one in the 
slow case) ?  (capture taken on the sender side in each case; must include 
SYN/SYNACK)

-Alex


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Re: brasero requires systemd-sysv

[Miles Fidelman]

John Hasler wrote:

thumper/~ 19 apt-cache show libpam-systemd
Package: libpam-systemd
Source: systemd
Version: 208-8
Installed-Size: 114
Maintainer: Debian systemd Maintainers 

Architecture: amd64
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.14), libcap2 (>= 1:2.10), libdbus-1-3 (>= 1.0.2), libpam0g (>= 
0.99.7.1), systemd (= 208-8), libpam-runtime (>= 1.0.1-6), dbus, systemd-sysv | systemd-shim 
(>= 6-4)
Pre-Depends: multiarch-support
Description-en: system and service manager - PAM module
  systemd is a replacement for sysvinit.  It is dependency-based and
  able to read the LSB init script headers in addition to parsing rcN.d
  links as hints.

Note the "|" between systemd-sysv and systemd-shim.  That means OR.

thumper/~ 19 apt-cache show systemd-shim
Package: systemd-shim
Version: 7-1
Installed-Size: 41
Maintainer: Steve Langasek 
Architecture: amd64
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.4), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.37.3), cgmanager
Suggests: pm-utils
Description-en: shim for systemd
  This package emulates the systemd function that are required to run
  the systemd helpers without using the init service


This shim was created to allow the installation of packages that use
bits of Systemd without requiring the use of Systemd as init.  It's a
consequence of the lack of backward compatibility in Systemd.


Thus Brasero does not require that Systemd be init.


Except, there has been recent discussion on debian-dev indicating that 
current versions of systemd-shim are incompatible with the latest 
versions of systemd.  H


Miles Fidelman


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Re: brasero requires systemd-sysv

[Martin Read]

On 03/09/14 17:14, The Wanderer wrote:

IMO, any functionality which anything not part of the init system might
legitimately want to depend on - such as the functionality needed by
libpam-systemd - should be implemented first, primarily, and indeed
probably *only* as something that is *not* part of the init system.


A reasonable position. There's some awkwardness in this particular case, 
though...



Indeed, my understanding is that the cgroups-management functionality
needed by libpam-systemd was initially implemented separately in logind
and in the 'PID 1' systemd (and possibly elsewhere), and then refactored
so as to have only one implementation - the one in PID 1.


... because this change (from systemd-logind manipulating cgroups 
itself, to systemd-logind sending cgroups manipulation requests to the 
dbus interface that is provided on systemd-as-PID-1 systems by systemd's 
PID 1) was done in response to the decision of the kernel's cgroup 
subsystem maintainer, Tejun Heo, that the way cgroups hierarchies worked 
was terrible and a single hierarchy single-writer model would be far 
more sensible.


(AIUI, opinions differ *quite* widely on the correctness and/or sanity 
of this decision by Tejun Heo. I have no particular opinion on it myself.)



It was only
after that that someone else, not related (AFAIK) to the systemd
project, implemented a standalone version via systemd-shim and the
separate cgmanager project.


This is indeed the case.


One of the problems is that the systemd project seems to default to
implementing potentially-independent things internally, instead of
implementing them standalone and then making systemd (or whatever it is
they wanted the new things for) depend on the standalone implementation.
This leads to there being only the systemd-internal implementation, in
at least some cases, and thus to the systemd lockin which is one of the
things people complain about.


It seems to me that it's likely to be hard to maintain that kind of 
discipline in respect of components you're only implementing at all 
because you want to use their functionality in something else you 
maintain. That's not to say it isn't worthwhile, but it may not always 
be worthwhile *enough* from the perspective of the people doing the work.



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Re: brasero requires systemd-sysv

[Brian]

On Wed 03 Sep 2014 at 11:12:24 -0400, Rob Owens wrote:

> brasero depends on systemd-sysv.  Here is the chain of dependencies
> I've identified, with the help of some folks on this list:

Brasero requires the installation of systemd-sysv (or systemd-shim) but
it is not one of its dependencies.

> brasero -> gvfs -> gvfs-daemons -> udisks2 -> libpam-systemd ->
> systemd-sysv 

You should also consider a default install with Recommends:, which will
pull in colord.

  colord -> policykit-1 -> libpam-systemd -> systemd-sysv

Policykit is used by default by upstream to handle user privileges.
 
> For now I'd like to ignore the option of using systemd-shim and just
> examine why a cd burning application depends on a particular init
> system.  My goal is to either 1) understand why it has to be this way,
> or 2) understand enough that I can submit a bug for one of the above
> packages to break this chain.

For 1) you'll be wanting to look at the part played by logind and why it
is the only game in town at present. For 2) you'll want to go after
libpam-systemd. 1) and 2) are interconnected so, to put it bluntly, you
will discover you are on a loser.

> Michael Biebl already informed me that brasero uses gvfs to detect
> removable media (thanks for that).  Apparently there are other methods
> available (xfburn doesn't use gvfs), but the brasero developers have
> chosen to use gvfs.

Just as the colord developers have decided to use policykit.

> I'm going to need help understanding the rest of the dependencies.
> 
> I'd also like to know if there are any features of brasero that
> *really* require systemd to be used as the init system -- features
> that would not work with sysvinit.  I'm hoping Michael or some other
> developers can chime in on this one.

If *you* really require accurate colours on your CD covers you may want
colord.


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Re: brasero requires systemd-sysv

[Brian]

On Wed 03 Sep 2014 at 13:27:04 -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:

> John Hasler wrote:
> >
> >Thus Brasero does not require that Systemd be init.
> 
> Except, there has been recent discussion on debian-dev indicating
> that current versions of systemd-shim are incompatible with the
> latest versions of systemd.  H

You are appallingly badly misinformed. Please do not spread such
misinformation. That can best be kept for the existing advocacy thread
rather than one in which a user asks for help and anticipates accurate
and useful reponses.


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Re: brasero requires systemd-sysv

[Rob Owens]

- Original Message -
> From: "The Wanderer" 
> 
> On 09/03/2014 at 11:41 AM, B wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 3 Sep 2014 11:12:24 -0400 (EDT) Rob Owens 
> > wrote:
> > 
> >> I'd also like to know if there are any features of brasero that
> >> *really* require systemd to be used as the init system --
> >> features that would not work with sysvinit.  I'm hoping Michael
> >> or some other developers can chime in on this one.
> > 
> > This doesn't work like that; it is a _chain_ of dependencies.
> 
> Which is in fact part of the problem: it results in something which does
> not have anything to do with a particular init system "depending on"
> that init system.

Thanks for understanding what I was trying to say.

I can't imagine that brasero really needs functionality provided by one 
particular init system, but I want to be open to the idea that it may.  So far, 
though, the only needs that have been brought up are essentially "brasero needs 
X functionality, which can be found in package W.  Package W also provides Y 
functionality, which depends on systemd-sysv.  So therefore brasero depends on 
systemd-sysv, even though it doesn't *need* it."  Sound about right?

It gives me a better understanding of why the principle of "do one thing and do 
it well" is important.  I thought it was about producing good code.  Now I 
understand that it also reduces this kind of "entanglement".

While systemd-shim is currently an option, I'd still like to open a bug(s) on 
the packages responsible for the entanglement.  Get the problem fixed at its 
root.  But I'm going to try and learn as much as I can from this thread before 
reporting any bugs.  I want to be able to make educated suggestions for 
improvement.

-Rob


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Re: brasero requires systemd-sysv

[Slavko]

Ahoj,

Dňa Wed, 3 Sep 2014 19:19:01 +0100 Brian  napísal:

> On Wed 03 Sep 2014 at 13:27:04 -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:
> 
> > John Hasler wrote:
> > >
> > >Thus Brasero does not require that Systemd be init.
> > 
> > Except, there has been recent discussion on debian-dev indicating
> > that current versions of systemd-shim are incompatible with the
> > latest versions of systemd.  H
> 
> You are appallingly badly misinformed. Please do not spread such
> misinformation. That can best be kept for the existing advocacy thread
> rather than one in which a user asks for help and anticipates accurate
> and useful reponses.
> 
> 

I am not sure, who is misinformed. All bugs listed in the
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=systemd-shim;dist=unstable
are related to the latest reincarnation of the systemd-shim and my
system is affected with all - i only don't use the gdm nor lightdm, but
behavior exactly the same.

regards

-- 
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http://slavino.sk


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in-kernel messaging (was Re: brasero requires gvfs)

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 03:54:06AM +0200, B wrote:
> Hehe, because it sinks his claws deep and everywhere (it also 
> plans to implant  dbus _into_ the kernel (WTF? A kernel is
> here to kernelling and nothing else AFAIK),

Plans to move bits of dbus into the kernel predate systemd. The first serious
effort I am aware of was patches by Vince Sanders (and possibly others) to add
a DBUS socket type, but they were nixed by the network maintainer. It now looks
like it might happen with KDBUS. Other than having Lennart's involvement, I
don't think this has anything much to do with systemd.

kernel support is pretty much essential to improve the performance of dbus.
Lots of data is being passed over dbus by apps nowadays, and because it's an
entirely userspace solution that means data is being copied from process to
process. These needless copies can be avoided with some kind of help from the
kernel, but none of the existing IPC mechanisms are good enough.


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Re: brasero requires gvfs

[Martin Read]

On 03/09/14 15:40, Rob Owens wrote:

xfburn is apparently aware that my cd drive is currently empty.  Does anybody 
know what it uses to detect this?  It is not using gvfs.


Looking up xfburn in aptitude's interactive interface, I see that xfburn 
Depends: libgudev-1.0-0, which is a GObject-based wrapper library for 
libudev, which is a library for accessing udev device information, so 
I'd guess it's probably using that to get information about the state of 
the CD drive.



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Re: in-kernel messaging (was Re: brasero requires gvfs)

[Bzzzz]

On Wed, 3 Sep 2014 21:38:47 +0100
Jonathan Dowland  wrote:

Thanks for your very clear explanation, Jonathan.

> kernel support is pretty much essential to improve the performance of
> dbus. Lots of data is being passed over dbus by apps nowadays, and
> because it's an entirely userspace solution that means data is being
> copied from process to process. 
> These needless copies can be avoided
> with some kind of help from the kernel, but none of the existing IPC
> mechanisms are good enough.

Beyong my leadue far this is, but applying Ocam's Razor to this
situation, I'd say the solution could be to have "several layers
of userspace" with different rights & privileges ? (a bit like
the i386 CPU privileges layers).

This way, if app-A and app-B are authorized to communicate, no more
data copy (?)


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FTB in QT5

[Bzzzz]

Hi list,

I'm trying to compile pgmodeler
(http://www.pgmodeler.com.br/wiki/doku.php?id=installation)
from the tarball, but after a while, it FTB w/ this message:

g++ -m64 -Wl,-O1 -o ../build/pgmodeler obj/main.o obj/application.o
-L/usr/X11R6/lib64 /usr/local/src/pgmodeler-0.7.2/build/libutils.so 
/usr/local/src/pgmodeler-0.7.2/build/libparsers.so 
/usr/local/src/pgmodeler-0.7.2/build/libpgconnector.so 
/usr/local/src/pgmodeler-0.7.2/build/libobjrenderer.so 
/usr/local/src/pgmodeler-0.7.2/build/libpgmodeler.so 
/usr/local/src/pgmodeler-0.7.2/build/libpgmodeler_ui.so
-lQt5PrintSupport -lQt5Widgets -lQt5Network -lQt5Gui -lQt5Core -lGL
-lpthread -lpq -lxml2 -lXext -lX11 -lm 

make[1]: Leaving directory '/usr/local/src/pgmodeler-0.7.2/main' cd
plugins/dummy/ && ( test -e Makefile
|| /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/bin/qmake 
/usr/local/src/pgmodeler-0.7.2/plugins/dummy/dummy.pro -o Makefile ) && make -f 
Makefile

Project ERROR: Unknown module(s) in QT: uitools

Makefile:435: recipe for target 'sub-plugins-dummy-make_first-ordered' failed 
make: ***
[sub-plugins-dummy-make_first-ordered] Error 3


Unfortunately, I can't find which QT5 pkg have the module 'uitools'
(I installed almost all QT5 pkgs because of that:(


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[SOLVED] - Re: FTB in QT5

[Bzzzz]

On Wed, 3 Sep 2014 23:24:02 +0200
B  wrote:

I totally missed this point: "use 32bits packages of all requirements
since the Qt framework (Mingw compiler) is available only in x86 arch."

Sorry for the noise.


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Re: IPv6 neighbor solicitations to use link-local source address

[mett]

Hi,

When pinging link-local addresses, u need to specify the exit interface.
So maybe if u specify the exit interface and another link-local as
destination, you might be able to do it:


--
mett@asus:~$ ip -6 add show
1: lo:  mtu 16436 
inet6 ::1/128 scope host 
   valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
2: eth0:  mtu 1500 qlen 1000
inet6 fe80::20c:6eff:fef8:7d1c/64 scope link 
   valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
mett@asus:
--
root@tamirrsso:/var/log# ip -6 add show

3: eth0:  mtu 1500 qlen 1000
inet6 fe80::207:95ff:fed5:2fda/64 scope link 
   valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
root@tamirrsso:/var/log# 
--
mett@asus:~$ ping6 -I eth0 fe80::207:95ff:fed5:2fda
PING fe80::207:95ff:fed5:2fda(fe80::207:95ff:fed5:2fda) from
fe80::20c:6eff:fef8:7d1c eth0: 56 data bytes 64 bytes from
fe80::207:95ff:fed5:2fda: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.433 ms 64 bytes from
fe80::207:95ff:fed5:2fda: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.205 ms 64 bytes from
fe80::207:95ff:fed5:2fda: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.201 ms 64 bytes from
fe80::207:95ff:fed5:2fda: icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=0.256 ms 64 bytes from
fe80::207:95ff:fed5:2fda: icmp_seq=5 ttl=64 time=0.199 ms



HTH!



On Wed, 3 Sep 2014 15:55:38 +0200
Julien b  wrote:

> Hello everybody
> 
> I'm very new to lists.debian.org so please appologize if I am doing
> something wrong by sending this email. I'm just out of idea with a
> behavior in NDP and must find a solution. I didn't find anything on
> the internet.
> 
> RFC4861 section 7.2.2 says that the source address in NDP neighbor
> solicitations can be any one of the addresses assigned to the
> interface. It also says that using the prompting packet's source
> address ensures that the recipient installs it in its neighbor cache.
> The latter is the behavior I can see on my boxes (a debian 6.0.9 +
> custom kernel 3.2.14) and also on a Centos one.
> 
> # ip -6 addr list
> 1: lo:  mtu 16436
> inet6 ::1/128 scope host
>valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
> 3: eth0:  mtu 1500 qlen 1000
> inet6 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::32/64 scope global
>valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
> inet6 fe80::a00:27ff:fe02:3cbd/64 scope link
>valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
> 
> # ping6 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::33 -c 3 &>/dev/null &
> # tcpdump -nli eth0 icmp6
> 
> 18:09:04.726908 IP6 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::32 > ff02::1:ff00:33: ICMP6,
> neighbor solicitation, who has 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::33, length 32
> 18:09:04.727373 IP6 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::33 > 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::32:
> ICMP6, neighbor advertisement, tgt is 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::33, length
> 32
> 18:09:04.727391 IP6 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::32 > 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::33:
> ICMP6, echo request, seq 1, length 64
> 18:09:04.727738 IP6 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::33 > 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::32:
> ICMP6, echo reply, seq 1, length 64
> 
> 
> My question is : How can I force ndp to use the link-local address
> assigned to that outgoing device ? (in the trace above, ndp would
> then send the neighbor solicitation with fe80::a00:27ff:fe02:3cbd
> source address).
> 
> This is requested by our customer for security reasons and as far as
> I can see it complies with RFC4861 as well.
> 
> If someone had a clue how to do that or if it's just impossible, I
> would really appreciate your help.
> 
> Thank you
> Best resgards
> Julien


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Re: in-kernel messaging (was Re: brasero requires gvfs)

[Joel Rees]

2014/09/04 6:02 "B" :
>
> On Wed, 3 Sep 2014 21:38:47 +0100
> Jonathan Dowland  wrote:
>
> Thanks for your very clear explanation, Jonathan.
>
> > kernel support is pretty much essential to improve the performance of
> > dbus. Lots of data is being passed over dbus by apps nowadays, and
> > because it's an entirely userspace solution that means data is being
> > copied from process to process.
> > These needless copies can be avoided
> > with some kind of help from the kernel, but none of the existing IPC
> > mechanisms are good enough.
>
> Beyong my leadue far this is, but applying Ocam's Razor to this
> situation, I'd say the solution could be to have "several layers
> of userspace" with different rights & privileges ? (a bit like
> the i386 CPU privileges layers).

Twenty+ years after Linus's epiphany that the i386 "privilege separation"
was just a lock-in technology and nothing more, ...

Okay, maybe he didn't quite put it that way. But it was definitely not a
unix-ish thing to do then, and it would not be a unixish way to do it now.

Computer systems and human systems work better with less hierarchy depth,
rather than more.

> This way, if app-A and app-B are authorized to communicate, no more
> data copy (?)

It doesn't end up working that well. The larger the shared memory, the more
chance for semaphors and monitors to be missed.

dbus/kdbus is actually another case of re-inventing bad solutions, and
getting things more wrong the second time.

Admitted, it's often better to do something not-quite-right than do nothing
at all, but forgetting that there is a better way is not a good thing
either.

Joel Rees

Computer memory is just fancy paper,
CPUs just fancy pens.
All is a stream of text
flowing from the past into the future.

Re: IPv6 neighbor solicitations to use link-local source address

[mett]

On Thu, 4 Sep 2014 09:04:00 +0900
mett  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> When pinging link-local addresses, u need to specify the exit
> interface. So maybe if u specify the exit interface and another
> link-local as destination, you might be able to do it:
> 
> 
> --
> mett@asus:~$ ip -6 add show
> 1: lo:  mtu 16436 
> inet6 ::1/128 scope host 
>valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
> 2: eth0:  mtu 1500 qlen 1000
> inet6 fe80::20c:6eff:fef8:7d1c/64 scope link 
>valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
> mett@asus:
> --
> root@tamirrsso:/var/log# ip -6 add show
> 
> 3: eth0:  mtu 1500 qlen 1000
> inet6 fe80::207:95ff:fed5:2fda/64 scope link 
>valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
> root@tamirrsso:/var/log# 
> --
> mett@asus:~$ ping6 -I eth0 fe80::207:95ff:fed5:2fda
> PING fe80::207:95ff:fed5:2fda(fe80::207:95ff:fed5:2fda) from
> fe80::20c:6eff:fef8:7d1c eth0: 56 data bytes 64 bytes from
> fe80::207:95ff:fed5:2fda: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.433 ms 64 bytes
> from fe80::207:95ff:fed5:2fda: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.205 ms 64
> bytes from fe80::207:95ff:fed5:2fda: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.201 ms
> 64 bytes from fe80::207:95ff:fed5:2fda: icmp_seq=4 ttl=64 time=0.256
> ms 64 bytes from fe80::207:95ff:fed5:2fda: icmp_seq=5 ttl=64
> time=0.199 ms
> 
> 
> 
> HTH!
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 3 Sep 2014 15:55:38 +0200
> Julien b  wrote:
> 
> > Hello everybody
> > 
> > I'm very new to lists.debian.org so please appologize if I am doing
> > something wrong by sending this email. I'm just out of idea with a
> > behavior in NDP and must find a solution. I didn't find anything on
> > the internet.
> > 
> > RFC4861 section 7.2.2 says that the source address in NDP neighbor
> > solicitations can be any one of the addresses assigned to the
> > interface. It also says that using the prompting packet's source
> > address ensures that the recipient installs it in its neighbor
> > cache. The latter is the behavior I can see on my boxes (a debian
> > 6.0.9 + custom kernel 3.2.14) and also on a Centos one.
> > 
> > # ip -6 addr list
> > 1: lo:  mtu 16436
> > inet6 ::1/128 scope host
> >valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
> > 3: eth0:  mtu 1500 qlen 1000
> > inet6 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::32/64 scope global
> >valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
> > inet6 fe80::a00:27ff:fe02:3cbd/64 scope link
> >valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
> > 
> > # ping6 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::33 -c 3 &>/dev/null &
> > # tcpdump -nli eth0 icmp6
> > 
> > 18:09:04.726908 IP6 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::32 > ff02::1:ff00:33: ICMP6,
> > neighbor solicitation, who has 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::33, length 32
> > 18:09:04.727373 IP6 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::33 > 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::32:
> > ICMP6, neighbor advertisement, tgt is 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::33, length
> > 32
> > 18:09:04.727391 IP6 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::32 > 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::33:
> > ICMP6, echo request, seq 1, length 64
> > 18:09:04.727738 IP6 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::33 > 2a10:7e40:edf6:100::32:
> > ICMP6, echo reply, seq 1, length 64
> > 
> > 
> > My question is : How can I force ndp to use the link-local address
> > assigned to that outgoing device ? (in the trace above, ndp would
> > then send the neighbor solicitation with fe80::a00:27ff:fe02:3cbd
> > source address).
> > 
> > This is requested by our customer for security reasons and as far as
> > I can see it complies with RFC4861 as well.
> > 
> > If someone had a clue how to do that or if it's just impossible, I
> > would really appreciate your help.
> > 
> > Thank you
> > Best resgards
> > Julien
> 
> 

By the way, sorry for top-posting...


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Re: in-kernel messaging (was Re: brasero requires gvfs)

[Bzzzz]

On Thu, 4 Sep 2014 09:26:48 +0900
Joel Rees  wrote:

[SNIP]

So, where is the solution then?


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apache2 what is the standard way to enable modules?

[Harry Putnam]

googling to learn how to enable modules in apache2-2.4.10-1+b1

I'm getting a little too much input to really see what to do.

what is the name of cgi module?  That would be very useful for the
`a2enmod' cmd.  And for something real simple like making sure it is
installed. 

I see several files in [...]/mods-available with the string `cgi' in
them.  None of those show up in [...]/mods-enabled.

apache2 -M is supposed to dump all modules but instead dumps a bunch
of guff that says nothing at all about modules.  And none of the
complaints appear to be a problem for apache2 since it starts and
restarts with no errors even when logging is set to `debug'. (see
first blurb below)

Using apachetcl -t to show all loaded mods (amongst several other
things) seems not to do that (see the last blurb below)

---   ---   ---=---   ---   --- 
apache2 -M
[Wed Sep 03 20:12:14.669980 2014] [core:warn] [pid 6481] AH00111: Config 
variable ${APACHE_LOCK_DIR} is not defined
[Wed Sep 03 20:12:14.671468 2014] [core:warn] [pid 6481] AH00111: Config 
variable ${APACHE_PID_FILE} is not defined
[Wed Sep 03 20:12:14.672347 2014] [core:warn] [pid 6481] AH00111: Config 
variable ${APACHE_RUN_USER} is not defined
[Wed Sep 03 20:12:14.673177 2014] [core:warn] [pid 6481] AH00111: Config 
variable ${APACHE_RUN_GROUP} is not defined
[Wed Sep 03 20:12:14.674001 2014] [core:warn] [pid 6481] AH00111: Config 
variable ${APACHE_LOG_DIR} is not defined
[Wed Sep 03 20:12:14.677377 2014] [core:warn] [pid 6481:tid 3074520896] 
AH00111: Config variable ${APACHE_LOG_DIR} is not defined
[Wed Sep 03 20:12:14.678458 2014] [core:warn] [pid 6481:tid 3074520896] 
AH00111: Config variable ${APACHE_LOG_DIR} is not defined
[Wed Sep 03 20:12:14.679343 2014] [core:warn] [pid 6481:tid 3074520896] 
AH00111: Config variable ${APACHE_LOG_DIR} is not defined
AH00526: Syntax error on line 74 of /etc/apache2/apache2.conf:
Invalid Mutex directory in argument file:${APACHE_LOCK_DIR}

---   ---   ---=---   ---   --- 

 sudo apachectl -t

[Wed Sep 03 20:46:48.376425 2014] [core:trace3] [pid 6933:tid 3074139968] 
core.c(3051): Setting LogLevel for all modules to trace4
Syntax OK


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Re: apache2 what is the standard way to enable modules?

[Bzzzz]

On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 20:55:19 -0400
Harry Putnam  wrote:

> what is the name of cgi module?  That would be very useful for the
> `a2enmod' cmd.  And for something real simple like making sure it is
> installed. 
> 
> I see several files in [...]/mods-available with the string `cgi' in
> them.  None of those show up in [...]/mods-enabled.

a2enmod is just for that: creating a symlink from mods-available
to mods-enabled (usually needs a restart).

You could:
cd mods-available
grep  /var/lib/dpkg/info/*ist

which will return .list;
if it doesn't talk by itself, check what your pkg manager description
says about it.


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policykit + systemd

[Rusi Mody]

When upgrading (hoo-boy!) to systemd a few weeks ago I had to remove policykit 
packages.

After that aptitude has been saying recommends (or is it suggests) some 
polkit stuff.

Now dist-upgrade is bringing back these (and some others):

libpolkit-agent-1-0{a} libpolkit-backend-1-0{a} libupower-glib3{a} 
policykit-1{a}

Is that ok?

Note: For the most part system is working with systemd.
Still I dont want to lose the option of choosing sysv-init at grub
(just in case)


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Re: IPV6 dns server running on IPV4 Connection??

[Jerry Stuckle]

Whoops... should have gone to the list. Sorry about that!

On 9/3/2014 10:48 AM, John Foster wrote:
> I have Verizon as my ISP; of course they don't want or allow the running
> of static addressed servers. However they seem to be ignoring most IPV6
> systems connection. I.E. I can browse IPV6 network connections and my
> router from Verizon has IPV6 settings enabled for both DHCPv6 & Staticv6
> connections. I am wondering if it would be possible to set up bind to
> run on my server with IPV6 initialized and run my server using it as an
> IPV6 static site while they (Verizon) happily use the same IPV4
> installation they are already using. Could this setup coexist on one
> machine. BTW: I am able to set up IPV6 DNS thru Godaddy at their dns
> zone manager for my server, to point to my unique IPV6 address. Only
> issue thereafter is where to get the proper IPV6 unique addres for my
> machine.
> ANY suggestions or comment are greatly appreciated.
> john
> 
> 

Even if you get a unique IPV6 address, Verizon would have to tell the
rest of the internet the routing to your address.  And unless you get it
from Verizon, chances are they aren't going to do it.

Yes, it could coexist on one machine - but ANY IP routing is dependent
on the next machine in the chain passing the routing information on.
Without this, no one (not even someone else on the Verizon network) will
be able to access your IP.

Your best bet is going to be to get an IPV6 address from Verizon.  But
please remember - most internet users (and even many ISPs) are still
using IPV4 only, and will not be able to access your site.

Jerry


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Re: apache2 what is the standard way to enable modules?

[Jerry Stuckle]

On 9/3/2014 8:55 PM, Harry Putnam wrote:
> googling to learn how to enable modules in apache2-2.4.10-1+b1
> 
> I'm getting a little too much input to really see what to do.
> 
> what is the name of cgi module?  That would be very useful for the
> `a2enmod' cmd.  And for something real simple like making sure it is
> installed. 
> 

Which language is the script written in?  There are multiple CGI modules
because there are multiple languages which can use it.

> I see several files in [...]/mods-available with the string `cgi' in
> them.  None of those show up in [...]/mods-enabled.
> 
> apache2 -M is supposed to dump all modules but instead dumps a bunch
> of guff that says nothing at all about modules.  And none of the
> complaints appear to be a problem for apache2 since it starts and
> restarts with no errors even when logging is set to `debug'. (see
> first blurb below)
>
> Using apachetcl -t to show all loaded mods (amongst several other
> things) seems not to do that (see the last blurb below)
> 
> ---   ---   ---=---   ---   --- 
> apache2 -M
> [Wed Sep 03 20:12:14.669980 2014] [core:warn] [pid 6481] AH00111: Config 
> variable ${APACHE_LOCK_DIR} is not defined
> [Wed Sep 03 20:12:14.671468 2014] [core:warn] [pid 6481] AH00111: Config 
> variable ${APACHE_PID_FILE} is not defined
> [Wed Sep 03 20:12:14.672347 2014] [core:warn] [pid 6481] AH00111: Config 
> variable ${APACHE_RUN_USER} is not defined
> [Wed Sep 03 20:12:14.673177 2014] [core:warn] [pid 6481] AH00111: Config 
> variable ${APACHE_RUN_GROUP} is not defined
> [Wed Sep 03 20:12:14.674001 2014] [core:warn] [pid 6481] AH00111: Config 
> variable ${APACHE_LOG_DIR} is not defined
> [Wed Sep 03 20:12:14.677377 2014] [core:warn] [pid 6481:tid 3074520896] 
> AH00111: Config variable ${APACHE_LOG_DIR} is not defined
> [Wed Sep 03 20:12:14.678458 2014] [core:warn] [pid 6481:tid 3074520896] 
> AH00111: Config variable ${APACHE_LOG_DIR} is not defined
> [Wed Sep 03 20:12:14.679343 2014] [core:warn] [pid 6481:tid 3074520896] 
> AH00111: Config variable ${APACHE_LOG_DIR} is not defined
> AH00526: Syntax error on line 74 of /etc/apache2/apache2.conf:
> Invalid Mutex directory in argument file:${APACHE_LOCK_DIR}
> 
> ---   ---   ---=---   ---   --- 
> 
>  sudo apachectl -t
> 
> [Wed Sep 03 20:46:48.376425 2014] [core:trace3] [pid 6933:tid 3074139968] 
> core.c(3051): Setting LogLevel for all modules to trace4
> Syntax OK
> 
> 


Not loading a module is not an error - although you should fix the error
in line 74.  Attempting to load a non-existent module would be an error.

Jerry



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Re: apache2 what is the standard way to enable modules?

[Harry Putnam]

B  writes:

> On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 20:55:19 -0400
> Harry Putnam  wrote:
>
>> what is the name of cgi module?  That would be very useful for the
>> `a2enmod' cmd.  And for something real simple like making sure it is
>> installed. 
>> 
>> I see several files in [...]/mods-available with the string `cgi' in
>> them.  None of those show up in [...]/mods-enabled.
>
> a2enmod is just for that: creating a symlink from mods-available
> to mods-enabled (usually needs a restart).
>
> You could:
> cd mods-available
> grep  /var/lib/dpkg/info/*ist
>
> which will return .list;
> if it doesn't talk by itself, check what your pkg manager description
> says about it.

Thanks for the push... Tinkering with your suggestion lead me to read
the `LoadModule' lines on the files in mods-available.

The line in cgi.load:
  LoadModule cgi_module /usr/lib/apache2/modules/mod_cgi.so

Looked the most promising, so I tried:

   a2enmod cgi.load

But it told me my MPM(?) seemed to be threaded so it gave me `cgid.conf'
and `cgid.load'... and away it went... cgi firing on all 8 cylinders.


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Re: apache2 what is the standard way to enable modules?

[Harry Putnam]

Jerry Stuckle  writes:

>
> Not loading a module is not an error - although you should fix the error
> in line 74.  Attempting to load a non-existent module would be an error.

Just one thing about that... I have the log level jacked up to trace4
and when I restart apache2, that error does not show up
anywhere... nothing at all to be concerned with. in error or
access.log.

If you notice, that same command (apache2 -M) also reported that the
log file was not defined and yet logs are appearing where they are
supposed to.  I'm thinking there is something a little shaky about
calling apache2 -M like that, and that there is really no syntax error
at all. 

You may note the last line of apachectl -t reports `Syntax OK'


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Re: apache2 what is the standard way to enable modules?

[Bzzzz]

On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 22:19:35 -0400
Harry Putnam  wrote:

> cgi firing on all 8 cylinders.

Comparing to nginx, I'd say: firing on 2 cyl/8 ;)


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Re: apache2 what is the standard way to enable modules?

[Harry Putnam]

B  writes:

> On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 22:19:35 -0400
> Harry Putnam  wrote:
>
>> cgi firing on all 8 cylinders.
>
> Comparing to nginx, I'd say: firing on 2 cyl/8 ;)

Oh oh, you'll have to explain that one... it went right over my head. 
Just not clever enough to follow your wit.


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Re: apache2 what is the standard way to enable modules?

[Bzzzz]

On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 22:32:19 -0400
Harry Putnam  wrote:

> Oh oh, you'll have to explain that one... it went right over my head. 
> Just not clever enough to follow your wit.

Not that nginx is way faster than apache, but it copes much better
with a huge number of connections.
The main (huge) difference and advantage is the way nginx handles
memory that is awfully much better: ~2MB w/ 1,000 connections @ a
rate of 50 conn./s, not any error, up to 12 php5-fpm running together
(~2.5 MB each for my front page); which is not bad for a celeron
2.00GHz and 628MB of RAM.


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Re: apache2 what is the standard way to enable modules?

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Harry Putnam  writes:

> googling to learn how to enable modules in apache2-2.4.10-1+b1
>
> I'm getting a little too much input to really see what to do.
>
> what is the name of cgi module?  That would be very useful for the
> `a2enmod' cmd.  And for something real simple like making sure it is
> installed. 

The modules you have available are in /etc/apache2/mods-available/

To enable one, create a symbolic link from one the module and its
configuration in /etc/apache2/mods-enabled.  I've got cgi enabled on my
system with

babs:511$ pwd
/etc/apache2
babs:512$ ls -l mods-enabled/*cgi*
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 26 Sep 26  2013 mods-enabled/cgi.load -> 
../mods-available/cgi.load
babs:513$ 

>
> I see several files in [...]/mods-available with the string `cgi' in
> them.  None of those show up in [...]/mods-enabled.

Right -- the way you enable them is to create the symbolic link.


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Re: apache2 what is the standard way to enable modules?

[Raffaele Morelli]

2014-09-04 4:19 GMT+02:00 Harry Putnam :

> B  writes:
>
> > On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 20:55:19 -0400
> > Harry Putnam  wrote:
> >
> >> what is the name of cgi module?  That would be very useful for the
> >> `a2enmod' cmd.  And for something real simple like making sure it is
> >> installed.
> >>
> >> I see several files in [...]/mods-available with the string `cgi' in
> >> them.  None of those show up in [...]/mods-enabled.
> >
> > a2enmod is just for that: creating a symlink from mods-available
> > to mods-enabled (usually needs a restart).
> >
> > You could:
> > cd mods-available
> > grep  /var/lib/dpkg/info/*ist
> >
> > which will return .list;
> > if it doesn't talk by itself, check what your pkg manager description
> > says about it.
>
> Thanks for the push... Tinkering with your suggestion lead me to read
> the `LoadModule' lines on the files in mods-available.
>
> The line in cgi.load:
>   LoadModule cgi_module /usr/lib/apache2/modules/mod_cgi.so
>
> Looked the most promising, so I tried:
>
>a2enmod cgi.load
>
> But it told me my MPM(?) seemed to be threaded so it gave me `cgid.conf'
> and `cgid.load'... and away it went... cgi firing on all 8 cylinders.


beware that ​a2enmod doesn't require extension​
eg. a2enmod cgi.load won't work cause the module is 'cgi', symlink is
created for both .conf and .load in /etc/apache2/mods-enabled/

hint: enable bash completion, a2enmod completes available module

Automount /boot during updates.

[PaulNM]

Hi folks,

I seem to remember hearing about a way to enable/disable the system
mounting /boot whenever a package needs to install or read files from
it, then unmount it again afterwards. (Like during kernel upgrades, for
example.)

I can't seem to find out how to do this, any pointers?

- PaulNM


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