Re: sidux

[Anthony Campbell]

On 14 Apr 2008, Haines Brown wrote:
> Michael,
> 
> I wanted to put Debian on a new Thinkpad X61s, and to achieve that with
> minimal pain, I went with sidux. I created a USB-stick to install it,
> and it went as smooth as can be. I'm using the machine with wifi. 
> 
> All hitches were simply the result of my ignorance. The applications
> I've installed (not many so far because I started with only a base
> system), work fine. I don't bother with any desktop manager, but use
> fluxbox instead.
> 
> -- 

I used Sidux for about 3 months after I bought a Thinkpad Z61M last
year. This was because I had difficulty getting Debian to recognize the
sound and other hardware. Things worked well for a time but when the
wireless changed from ipw3945 to iwlwifi I could no longer connect to
the internet. I then went back to Debian Sid and this time everything
worked fine.

I had a good impression of Sidux until the last-mentioned problem arose.
One warning: the installation CD is quite difficult to make correctly
and the last time I tried it didn't work properly. I'd say give it a try
by all means, but I find the Debian install system is much better now
and there's no reason not to use it.

Anthony


-- 
Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux
http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, 
on-line books and sceptical articles)


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Re: sidux

[Johannes Wiedersich]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Joey Hess wrote:
> Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
>> In your opinion, am I right in my assessment that testing is more
>> likely to be in an unusable state for longer than sid?  (at least at
>> the package, not system, level)?
> 
> No, I don't think so. If a package has a bug that makes it unusable,
> then 
> 
> a) Someone will generally notice a bug in the two weeks before that buggy
>package gets into testing, and file a RC bug to keep it out.
> b) If a bug that makes a package unusable does get into testing, it
>can be fixed in 2 days in most cases.
> c) The graph of release critical bugs[1] currently shows 1750 in unstable,
>and only 571 of those affect testing. (658 of them affect *stable*).
>http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/

I second the experience that there are not too many, if any serious
problems with testing. I've been using testing on 'newer' computers --
especially laptops -- that wouldn't run well with stable for a total of
years and never had any serious problem.

Testing has the benefit that -- unlike unstable -- it will eventually
become stable. I enjoy the 'quiescence' that sets in after testing
becomes stable and there is nothing happening to my system, except for
trivial security fixes. If you are like me and generally prefer 'stable'
software, than 'testing' is your route.

Just my 0.02

Johannes
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Re: sidux

[Matthew Macdonald-Wallace]

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:04:48 +0100
Michael C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Many swear seem to swear by sidux, though its claim to turn "unstable
> into a stable and reliable operating system for every-day usage" seems
> at odds with common sense, especially given its own advice to avoid
> dist-upgrades in the middle of "serious work" because "any package in
> sid can break at any time, and any person can be the first to discover
> it, especially if it is not a standard sidux package."
> 
> I'm obviously never going to get a considered, impartial appraisal
> from their forum and IRC channel, so has anyone here tried sidux only
> to find that Testing was better suited to their desktop needs?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Michael


If you want to run a "stable" version of Debian "Unstable/Testing", why
not use Ubuntu?  As I understand it, Ubuntu takes the Testing repos and
makes them a bit more stable, then releases them.

Regards,

Matt
-- 
|Matthew Macdonald-Wallace
|Tiger Computing Ltd
|"The Linux Specialists"
|
|Tel: 0330 088 1511
|Web: http://www.tiger-computing.co.uk
|
|Registered in England. Company number: 3389961
|Registered address: Wyastone Business Park,
| Wyastone Leys, Monmouth, NP25 3SR


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Re: browsers have become memory hogs

[gradetwo]

try to disable the flash plugin,then suggest use 'adblock plus' .

在 2008-04-10四的 22:07 -0400，Douglas A. Tutty写道：
> On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 02:45:32PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > On 04/10/08 14:35, tom arnall wrote:
> > > all of a sudden browsers have become memory hogs on my system (>95%). 
> > > i've 
> > 
> > I don't see how a single process could use 95% of memory on a 32-bit
> > system.
> 
> Easy on my P-II, which is 32-bit (with only 64 MB memory.
> 
> The real question, is how much memory is it using, not the percentage. 
> 
> If all of real memory is used and the box hits swap hard, its called
> Thrashing.
> 
> 


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Re: bits/news from the users of Debian?

[Goupil]

Goupil wrote:
> 
> 
> Goupil wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Goupil wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Lars Bjerregaard wrote:
 
 Hello,
 
 I saw a link to your survey from LWN, and wanted to reply to it because
 of it's 
 friendly and inviting tone. I'm not subscribed to the list (but maybe I
 should 
 do that...).
 
 I first touched a set of Linux diskettes around 1995, and have been
 dabbling 
 with it on and off since then, with increasing intensity. About 4 years
 ago, I 
 took the plunge and became a 100% Linux user on my home desktop, and I
 haven't 
 regretted it for a minute. I'm a professional systems developer, and do
 some 
 measure of system administration as well. I grew up in the world of DOS
 and 
 Windows, and so Unix was not my "entry by birth" into the world of
 computing. By 
 now I certainly am addicted to the 'Unix way', although I am forced to
 use 
 Windows at my work.
 
 I keep track of all things Linux and FOSS intensively, and find that by
 far the 
 most interesting things in computing go on in this huge ecosystem. It
 is also 
 close to my heart in terms of philosophy and ethics.
 
 I think during the years I've been trough most of the major
 distributions: 
 Redhat, Suse, Gentoo, Ubuntu, Debian, and a few others, and during the
 years of 
 experiments and playing around, I have come to know which things about
 a 
 distribution that *I* value, and put the highest emphasis on. My last
 full-time 
 desktop system was Ubuntu, through a few releases, but I came to
 realise that I 
 didn't really want to install a new release every 6 months, and it was
 sometimes 
 a bit too unstable for my taste, with too many unfixed bugs.
 
 A year ago, I switched to Debian Etch full time on my desktop. At the
 same time 
 I realized I was becoming increasingly disappointed with Gnome, and so
 wanted to 
 check out if Linus is right, and switched to KDE. And boy do I agree! I
 love 
 KDE, and wouldn't switch for the world now.
 
 What my personal preferences in a desktop system amounts to are:
 - Highly stable
 - Bugs quickly resolved
 - New release about every 2 years
 - Good hardware support
 - A huge array of packages to choose from
 - A rock solid and versatile package manager/system
 - A window manager that doesn't get in my way, or tries to be smarter
 than me, 
 but allows me to easily just configure things the way *I* like it.
 
 Those would be the mainpoints. So where I am now after all my travels,
 the Etch 
 + KDE combination is what comes closest to fit that bill, and I enjoy
 it 
 tremendously. I've become picky over the years, and I really have to
 give big 
 kudos to the Debian team, for providing such an excellent system to us.
 Thank you!
 
 Current annoyances with my desktop system are:
 - With the current kernel the boot process freezes hard about every 15
 boots on 
 average. The kernel update before that one froze hard the same way,
 roughly 
 every 5 boots. The kernels before that did not have a problem. I should
 probably 
 overcome my hesitation with the Debian bugzilla, and try and submit a
 good 
 bugreport.
 
 - When X starts, there's a wait for 10 seconds, whilst my Dell monitor
 displays 
 "Cannot display this resolution", until it finally starts correctly.
 This was a 
 problem in Ubuntu as well, and after hours of xorg.conf tinkering I've
 given up, 
 and I just live with it.
 
 - The Wine package is (IMHO) completely broken, and I use the one from
 winehq.
 
 - There's an issue with having to get drupal5 from testing. It should
 at least 
 be in backports, if at all possible.
 
 - Adept, which would be my preffered package manager on the desktop,
 does not 
 work when interactivity is required with the package install ("unable
 to display 
 frontend kde"). It displays a curses frontend which simply doesn't work
 on the 
 display. I've tried fixing it from various tips to no avail. So I use
 aptitude, 
 which is a very fine tool indeed.
 
 - In aptitude, pressing 'C' should display the changelog for the
 package, but 
 only does so 1 out of 20 times. Otherwise it's 'unavailable'. Would be
 very nice 
 to have it always just work.
 
 - I've set up bridging network (TUN,TAP) to facilitate host nic access
 in 
 VirtualBox machines. For some reason it takes the bridge about 10
 seconds during 
 the boot process to acquire an IP address. Without the bridge there's
 no problem.
 
 - Getting iceweasel and icedove to have working links and mailto: links
 was 
 manuel work. Shouldn't be necessary.
 
>>

Re: sidux

[Matthew Macdonald-Wallace]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:25:20 +0200
Rico Secada <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> How do you make something a bit more stable!?

More testing?!! :oP

> Just go with testing - it's perfect.

Agreed, I just like Ubuntu! :o)

M.
-- 
|Matthew Macdonald-Wallace
|Tiger Computing Ltd
|"The Linux Specialists"
|
|Tel: 0330 088 1511
|Web: http://www.tiger-computing.co.uk
|
|Registered in England. Company number: 3389961
|Registered address: Wyastone Business Park,
| Wyastone Leys, Monmouth, NP25 3SR


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Re: bits/news from the users of Debian?

[Goupil]

Goupil wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Goupil wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Lars Bjerregaard wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> I saw a link to your survey from LWN, and wanted to reply to it because
>>> of it's 
>>> friendly and inviting tone. I'm not subscribed to the list (but maybe I
>>> should 
>>> do that...).
>>> 
>>> I first touched a set of Linux diskettes around 1995, and have been
>>> dabbling 
>>> with it on and off since then, with increasing intensity. About 4 years
>>> ago, I 
>>> took the plunge and became a 100% Linux user on my home desktop, and I
>>> haven't 
>>> regretted it for a minute. I'm a professional systems developer, and do
>>> some 
>>> measure of system administration as well. I grew up in the world of DOS
>>> and 
>>> Windows, and so Unix was not my "entry by birth" into the world of
>>> computing. By 
>>> now I certainly am addicted to the 'Unix way', although I am forced to
>>> use 
>>> Windows at my work.
>>> 
>>> I keep track of all things Linux and FOSS intensively, and find that by
>>> far the 
>>> most interesting things in computing go on in this huge ecosystem. It is
>>> also 
>>> close to my heart in terms of philosophy and ethics.
>>> 
>>> I think during the years I've been trough most of the major
>>> distributions: 
>>> Redhat, Suse, Gentoo, Ubuntu, Debian, and a few others, and during the
>>> years of 
>>> experiments and playing around, I have come to know which things about a 
>>> distribution that *I* value, and put the highest emphasis on. My last
>>> full-time 
>>> desktop system was Ubuntu, through a few releases, but I came to realise
>>> that I 
>>> didn't really want to install a new release every 6 months, and it was
>>> sometimes 
>>> a bit too unstable for my taste, with too many unfixed bugs.
>>> 
>>> A year ago, I switched to Debian Etch full time on my desktop. At the
>>> same time 
>>> I realized I was becoming increasingly disappointed with Gnome, and so
>>> wanted to 
>>> check out if Linus is right, and switched to KDE. And boy do I agree! I
>>> love 
>>> KDE, and wouldn't switch for the world now.
>>> 
>>> What my personal preferences in a desktop system amounts to are:
>>> - Highly stable
>>> - Bugs quickly resolved
>>> - New release about every 2 years
>>> - Good hardware support
>>> - A huge array of packages to choose from
>>> - A rock solid and versatile package manager/system
>>> - A window manager that doesn't get in my way, or tries to be smarter
>>> than me, 
>>> but allows me to easily just configure things the way *I* like it.
>>> 
>>> Those would be the mainpoints. So where I am now after all my travels,
>>> the Etch 
>>> + KDE combination is what comes closest to fit that bill, and I enjoy it 
>>> tremendously. I've become picky over the years, and I really have to
>>> give big 
>>> kudos to the Debian team, for providing such an excellent system to us.
>>> Thank you!
>>> 
>>> Current annoyances with my desktop system are:
>>> - With the current kernel the boot process freezes hard about every 15
>>> boots on 
>>> average. The kernel update before that one froze hard the same way,
>>> roughly 
>>> every 5 boots. The kernels before that did not have a problem. I should
>>> probably 
>>> overcome my hesitation with the Debian bugzilla, and try and submit a
>>> good 
>>> bugreport.
>>> 
>>> - When X starts, there's a wait for 10 seconds, whilst my Dell monitor
>>> displays 
>>> "Cannot display this resolution", until it finally starts correctly.
>>> This was a 
>>> problem in Ubuntu as well, and after hours of xorg.conf tinkering I've
>>> given up, 
>>> and I just live with it.
>>> 
>>> - The Wine package is (IMHO) completely broken, and I use the one from
>>> winehq.
>>> 
>>> - There's an issue with having to get drupal5 from testing. It should at
>>> least 
>>> be in backports, if at all possible.
>>> 
>>> - Adept, which would be my preffered package manager on the desktop,
>>> does not 
>>> work when interactivity is required with the package install ("unable to
>>> display 
>>> frontend kde"). It displays a curses frontend which simply doesn't work
>>> on the 
>>> display. I've tried fixing it from various tips to no avail. So I use
>>> aptitude, 
>>> which is a very fine tool indeed.
>>> 
>>> - In aptitude, pressing 'C' should display the changelog for the
>>> package, but 
>>> only does so 1 out of 20 times. Otherwise it's 'unavailable'. Would be
>>> very nice 
>>> to have it always just work.
>>> 
>>> - I've set up bridging network (TUN,TAP) to facilitate host nic access
>>> in 
>>> VirtualBox machines. For some reason it takes the bridge about 10
>>> seconds during 
>>> the boot process to acquire an IP address. Without the bridge there's no
>>> problem.
>>> 
>>> - Getting iceweasel and icedove to have working links and mailto: links
>>> was 
>>> manuel work. Shouldn't be necessary.
>>> 
>>> - Working sound required manual tinkering.
>>> 
>>> - In xorg.conf I had to change 'ati' driver to 'radeon' to get X going
>>> at first.
>>> 
>>> But I do have t

Re: sidux

[Michael C]

Matthew Macdonald-Wallace wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:04:48 +0100
Michael C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

  

Many swear seem to swear by sidux, though its claim to turn "unstable
into a stable and reliable operating system for every-day usage" seems
at odds with common sense, especially given its own advice to avoid
dist-upgrades in the middle of "serious work" because "any package in
sid can break at any time, and any person can be the first to discover
it, especially if it is not a standard sidux package."

I'm obviously never going to get a considered, impartial appraisal
from their forum and IRC channel, so has anyone here tried sidux only
to find that Testing was better suited to their desktop needs?

Regards,

Michael




If you want to run a "stable" version of Debian "Unstable/Testing", why
not use Ubuntu?  


Two things, really.

(i) Mediocre quality assurance -- remember the JMicron show-stopper that
evidently hadn't been resolved by the time of 7.04's release (unlike
PCLinuxOS, which specifically delayed its release by several weeks until
the issue *was* resolved).

There's a rather nice article by Sam Varghese summarizing why I won't be
installing 8.04 in a hurry: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/17601/1154/

(ii) Its easy-going relationship to proprietary junk.


As I understand it, Ubuntu takes the Testing repos and
makes them a bit more stable, then releases them.
  


I was under the impression their code base is a stabilized snapshot of Sid.

Best,

Michael






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Re: sidux

[Rico Secada]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:04:38 +0100
Matthew Macdonald-Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:04:48 +0100
> Michael C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Many swear seem to swear by sidux, though its claim to turn
> > "unstable into a stable and reliable operating system for every-day
> > usage" seems at odds with common sense, especially given its own
> > advice to avoid dist-upgrades in the middle of "serious work"
> > because "any package in sid can break at any time, and any person
> > can be the first to discover it, especially if it is not a standard
> > sidux package."
> > 
> > I'm obviously never going to get a considered, impartial appraisal
> > from their forum and IRC channel, so has anyone here tried sidux
> > only to find that Testing was better suited to their desktop needs?
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Michael
> 
> 
> If you want to run a "stable" version of Debian "Unstable/Testing",
> why not use Ubuntu?  As I understand it, Ubuntu takes the Testing
> repos and makes them a bit more stable, then releases them.

How do you make something a bit more stable!?

Just go with testing - it's perfect.

> Regards,
> 
> Matt
> -- 
> |Matthew Macdonald-Wallace
> |Tiger Computing Ltd
> |"The Linux Specialists"
> |
> |Tel: 0330 088 1511
> |Web: http://www.tiger-computing.co.uk
> |
> |Registered in England. Company number: 3389961
> |Registered address: Wyastone Business Park,
> | Wyastone Leys, Monmouth, NP25 3SR
> 
> 
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> 



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release not found in my local mirror

[abelahcene]

Hi everybody,
I mirrored succefully the near site ftp.fr.debian.org for i386  stable 
release, main directory;  about 12 GB downloaded.


I used apt-mirror

However I noticed, my local directory is not the same as the original I 
mean :


Parent Directory  10-Aug-2007 01:46  -  
Archive-Update-in-Progress-debian.proxad.net  15-Apr-2008 10:47 1k  
README    12-Apr-2008 20:15 1k  
README.CD-manufacture 04-Dec-2000 22:35 1k  
README.html   12-Apr-2008 20:16 3k  
README.mirrors.html   14-Apr-2008 21:52   125k  
README.mirrors.txt    14-Apr-2008 21:5263k  
dists/    12-Apr-2008 20:17  -  
doc/  15-Apr-2008 09:52  -  
indices/  15-Apr-2008 10:48  -  
ls-lR.gz  14-Apr-2008 22:45   5.9M  
ls-lR.patch.gz    14-Apr-2008 22:45   424k  
pool/ 19-Dec-2000 21:10  -  
project/  02-Jan-2007 03:44  -  
tools/ 


Some of them are probably required
In my case the directory is
|-- mirror
|   `-- ftp.fr.debian.org
|   `-- debian
|   |-- dists
|   |   `-- stable
|   |   |-- Contents-i386.gz
|   |   |-- Release
|   |   |-- Release.gpg
|   |   `-- main
|   `-- pool
|   `-- main
|   |-- 3
|   |-- 6
|   |-- 9
|   |-- a
---

|-- skel
|   `-- ftp.fr.debian.org
|   `-- debian
|   `-- dists
|   `-- stable
|   |-- Contents-i386.gz
|   |-- Release
|   |-- Release.gpg
|   `-- main
`-- var
   |-- ALL
   |-- MD5





I suppose I have to use my site I HAVE TO  declare  

mirror/ftp.fr.debian.org/  as the site 

and not  
skel/ftp.fr.debian.org/debian?


Secondly ,
When I tried to use to install thru netinstall,the site or  Release is not found??? ,  may be I need to add some links ?? 

When I tried to use from installed machine to complete it 

in sources.list I added 


deb ftp://localsite/debian stable main

I got error public Key not avalaible !!!


thanks for help



















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Re: bits/news from the users of Debian?

[Peter Hugosson-Miller]

I've been using Linux since about the tail end of 1996, starting with 
Debian (maybe it was "rex" at that time?) I've dabbled with many other 
distributions since then, most notably Suze, Red Hat, and Knoppix, but 
have always returned to Debian for its stability and ease of maintenance.


Here at work we have one single Linux installation in a sea of Windoze: 
a PC running Debian "woody", and housing our Oracle database for testing 
purposes. Prior to our migration to Linux it had existed in various 
Windoze incarnations: NT4, Win2K and WinXP, but these were plagued by 
instabilities and downtime, so on a whim my boss decided to allow me to 
make a Linux box instead. Since it was started in January 2005 it has 
been running continuously with *no* downtime or problems of any kind. 
Talk about value for money!


At home my latest installation is also "woody", but the box on which it 
is sitting is currently suffering from a faulty disk, and I haven't 
found/made the time to replace it. Instead, my wife bought a Mac (iMac 
G5), running OSX "tiger" (which seems to be just another Linux flavour), 
with which we have never had any problems whatsoever. It has plenty of 
capacity for both of us, and I feel right at home with it (even managed 
to get the GIMP running on it!).


If I had any comments or suggestions on how to improve Linux/Debian, it 
would be the sound. Despite running Debian exclusively at home for over 
10 years, I never managed to get the sound working properly, except on 
those occasions when I booted from a Knoppix live CD (regulars on 
debian-user might remember my eternal frustrated threads about it). So 
whatever it is that Knoppix does when it is detecting/configuring the 
sound card (with no input from me!), I think that Debian should be doing 
the same thing.


Other than that (minor) point, I would like to say: "keep up the great 
work!" When I buy my next PC it will be running Debian for sure.


--
Cheers,
Peter Hugosson-Miller

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Re: sidux + a word on Debian

[Rico Secada]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:40:26 +0100
Matthew Macdonald-Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:25:20 +0200
> Rico Secada <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > How do you make something a bit more stable!?
> 
> More testing?!! :oP

And this makes it more stable!? 

Packages are maintained by their respective maintainers.. in order for
something to become more stable, you have to submit changes. Just by
testing something doesn't make it more stable. :-)

I think a lot of people actually doesn't really understand the
difference between the stable, testing and unstable branch. The words
are also confusing.

Debian stable is very good for a production server that doesn’t need to
upgrade anything but security, but if the production requires newly
added features of third party applications Debian testing is the way to
go. Just because it is called testing doesn’t mean that it isn’t stable.

Packages from the testing release sometimes are more "stable" in the
sense of words than packages from the stable release.

Debian is much a source distribution: each packages is compiled
automatically 10 times on 10 different platforms before entering
testing so this is a very well tested process.

The unstable isn't really unstable per say, but it just breaks from time
to time because so many changes are added daily. From time to time the
dependencies between packages doesn't fit and stuff breaks.

I don't really see or find any need for Ubuntu or Sidux. On the contrary
I find that the Ubuntu team messes up quite often and packages break
more frequently than any Debian branch - but that's just my experience.

> 
> > Just go with testing - it's perfect.
> 
> Agreed, I just like Ubuntu! :o)

That must be because of the "good looks" ;-)

> 
> M.
> -- 
> |Matthew Macdonald-Wallace
> |Tiger Computing Ltd
> |"The Linux Specialists"
> |
> |Tel: 0330 088 1511
> |Web: http://www.tiger-computing.co.uk
> |
> |Registered in England. Company number: 3389961
> |Registered address: Wyastone Business Park,
> | Wyastone Leys, Monmouth, NP25 3SR
> 
> 
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> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 



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Debian glibc package

[hce]

Hi,

I am using linux-2.6-glibc23-i686 in FC6 box to compile audio and
video application, what is the equivelant glibc I can use in Debian?

I searched following result, could not find similar glibc23 package.

$ apt-cache search glibc
abicheck - binary compatibility checking tool
glibc-doc - GNU C Library: Documentation
ja-trans - Japanese gettext message files
kmtrace - a KDE memory leak tracer
libc6 - GNU C Library: Shared libraries
libc6-pic - GNU C Library: PIC archive library
libdb1-compat - The Berkeley database routines [glibc 2.0/2.1 compatibility]
libg++2.8.1.3-glibc2.2 - The GNU C++ extension library - runtime version
libgetopt-java - GNU getopt - Java port
libggz-dev - GGZ Gaming Zone: common utilities library - development files
libggz2 - GGZ Gaming Zone: common utilities library
libnss-ldap - NSS module for using LDAP as a naming service
libnss-mdns - NSS module for Multicast DNS name resolution
libnss-pgsql1 - name service switch module using PostgreSQL
libstdc++2.10-glibc2.2 - The GNU stdc++ library
linux-kernel-headers - Linux Kernel Headers for development
linuxinfo - Displays extended system information
manpages-dev - Manual pages about using GNU/Linux for development
manpages-fr-dev - French version of the development manual pages
manpages-pl-dev - Polish man pages for developers
perdition-dev - Development libraries and headers for perdition
perdition-ldap - Library to allow perdition to access LDAP based popmaps
perdition-mysql - Library to allow perdition to access MySQL based popmaps
perdition-odbc - Library to allow perdition to access ODBC based popmaps
perdition-postgresql - Library to allow perdition to access PostgreSQL
based popmaps
python-utmp - python module for working with utmp
winbind - service to resolve user and group information from Windows NT servers
linux-libc-dev - Linux Kernel Headers for development

Search from google find
http://ftp.au.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/glibc/glibc-source_2.7-10_all.deb

How can I install the source code to a local rather than to /usr directory?

Thank you.

Kind Regards,

Jim


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PLEASE REPLY IMMEDIATELY

[Kuhor Skeita]

Invitation : "PLEASE REPLY IMMEDIATELY".


Par votre hôte Kuhor Skeita:


 Date:  mardi 15 avril 2008

 Heure: 11 h 00 - 12 h 00 (GMT+00:00)

Viendrez-vous ? Répondre à cette invitation, à:

 
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Re: Debian glibc package

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 04/15/08 06:57, hce wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am using linux-2.6-glibc23-i686 in FC6 box to compile audio and
> video application, what is the equivelant glibc I can use in Debian?
> 
> I searched following result, could not find similar glibc23 package.
> 
> $ apt-cache search glibc
[snip]
> libc6 - GNU C Library: Shared libraries

This is what you want.  And libc6-dev.

[snip]
> 
> How can I install the source code to a local rather than to /usr directory?



Isn't that controlled by what you pass to ./configure?

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Jefferson LA  USA

We want... a Shrubbery!!
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

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CvJHUfzWjQ0rvyl+ytc/Y0Q=
=y3cA
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Re: [OT] reStructured Text real world usage

[Brian McKee]

On 14-Apr-08, at 9:47 PM, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:34:00PM -0400, Brian McKee wrote:

On 12-Apr-08, at 6:16 PM, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 08:54:40AM -0400, Brian McKee wrote:

On 9-Apr-08, at 11:12 PM, Amit Uttamchandani wrote:

Inspired by the easy to use wiki syntax, I've been looking around
for similar markups that allow for basic "rich text" output.



I actually use a wiki currently -  tiddlyWiki - and I edit the text
in it with Vim using the It's All Text plugin for Firefox.
Since it's a one page portable wiki (no server required) it's
completely cross platform - I can carry it around on a USB stick  
and

edit it where ever I'm at.



Mixing code and data is not my preffered method.



It's not really -  Is a pdf file mixing data and code?  or latex?





LaTeX and PostScript (though not PDF) allow a similar the same level
of programability that HTML+Javascript (as used in many browsers)  
does.



It is not often abused as in the way it is done in in tiddlyWiki . If
you have complex (La)TeX code in your document, you'd probably make  
it a

separate style / package.



Wiki syntax is less 'code' then those - and the raw data is still
there as entered when you hit the edit button the next time.



What happens when you find a bug in the code that implements the
interpetation of the wiki?


Then you re-edit it - the original text is still there unmangled.


And how do I know that the document you give me doesn't really log all
of my details to your server? I have to re-inspect the code with each
and every document. It is javascript that is run locally on my system
and hence my browser assumes it is a bit more trustworthy.

Indeed tiddlyWiki.org is hosted on a mediawiki.


The tiddlyWiki itself is self-contained and runs fine off-line,
(although there are plug ins to make it run on a server)
but I grant you it's not easily verifiable


I use it because I've come to rely pretty heavily on the easy linking
to both internal and external data that wiki's provide.

Latex and AsciiDoc (I looked very quickly) have that 'compile as a
separate step' process I find irritating.   My output is in the
format I need it in as soon as I hit the 'done' button, and still
ready to be edited when I hit the 'edit' button.  Granted,  I don't
have the wide range of output options provided by markup/compile
cycle setups like Latex, but I don't need them


But then again, everybody must use your code to view your data.


I agree with you it's quite unsuitable for redistribution.
When I do need to export data from it I use 'print to pdf' and  
distribute the pdf.
Not as flexible as the other systems, but it's almost exclusively my  
notes and to-do lists,
it's not intended to be sent anywhere.I find it handy for the  
OP's use case - taking notes.
When it's a very often edited document (e.g. I edit my to-do list a  
dozen times a day or more)
the 'make' step is too much, and the html rendering I have is all I  
need.


Hope that explains the different pros and cons as I see them.

Brian


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Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: sidux + a word on Debian

[Celejar]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:47:08 +0200
Rico Secada <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

[snip]

> The unstable isn't really unstable per say, but it just breaks from time
> to time because so many changes are added daily. From time to time the
> dependencies between packages doesn't fit and stuff breaks.

As people have often explained on this list, the choice of the term
unstable is somewhat unfortunate.  You're saying that it works pretty
well except for the occasional breakage, but what unstable really means
is that stuff *changes*.  For example, Shorewall will get upgraded, and
voila, no more networking until you rewrite your configuration files,
after having learned the new format.


Celejar
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ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator


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Source code editor

[Tero Mäntyvaara]

I am looking for shell program for source code edition. I have used 
nano, but it isn't enough. I need more "real" IDE like functionalities 
eg constant view of current row number, file browser and selection, 
cutting, pasting and copying functions. I also tried to use motor, but I 
got segmentation fault after execution... :-/ I am using Etch.



Tero Mäntyvaara


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Re: Source code editor

[Owen Townend]

On 15/04/2008, Tero Mäntyvaara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I am looking for shell program for source code edition. I have used nano,
> but it isn't enough. I need more "real" IDE like functionalities eg constant
> view of current row number, file browser and selection, cutting, pasting and
> copying functions. I also tried to use motor, but I got segmentation fault
> after execution... :-/ I am using Etch.


Hey,
  Try vim, once you get your head around the way it works it is an immensely
powerful editor. There are many 'cheat sheet' type reference sheets
available if you google a bit which, when stuck to a nearby wall, help out
as you get started.
  Once you are comfortable with vi syntax there are a few other places where
it comes in handy such as less/more (navigation and searching) and on the
commandline (`set -o vi`).

cheers,
Owen.

p.s.

I've never tried emacs, but I'm told it would make a very good operating
system but for the lack of a decent editor.



Tero Mäntyvaara
>
>
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>
>

Gobuntu a gonner

[Michael C]

 Original Message 
Subject:Rethinking Gobuntu
Date:   Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:49:22 +0100
From:   Mark Shuttleworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: gobuntu-devel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


The "current and future" thread on this list has got me thinking.
Perhaps we really are on the wrong track, that the only way to meet the
needs of the gNewSense folks is to have completely different source
packages to Ubuntu. If that is the case, then I think it would be better
to channel the energy from Gobuntu into gNewSense.

I had hoped to see more participation and collaboration around Gobuntu
because of the benefits of keeping up with the standard Ubuntu (regular
releases, security updates etc). However, it seems that the audience for
a platform like this is willing to accept infrequent releases and less
maintenance in return for a platform which can be modified more
radically. That's OK, it's just a bit unexpected - I thought we could
get the best of both worlds, with six-monthly releases of something that
excluded *binary package* that were controversial in the eyes of the
FSF, but retained access to everything else in Ubuntu.

I don't mind having been wrong in that expectation, I can see the
arguments in favour of less collaboration in the case where it is more
important to be different than to have infrastructure in common, and
from what I've seen on this list, the desire to be different (have
different source packages as well as binary packages) is stronger than
the desire to collaborate (share infrastructure, release cycles etc).

I'm not sure that the current level of activity in Gobuntu warrants the
division of attention it creates, either for folks who are dedicated to
Ubuntu primarily, or to folks who are interested in gNewSense. I would
like us to have a good relationship with the gNewSense folks, because I
do think that their values and views are important and I would like
Ubuntu to be a useful starting point for them. But perhaps Gobuntu isn't
the best way to achieve that.

So, I would like to hear from the gNewSense guys how they would like to
be involved in Ubuntu, to help ensure that Ubuntu is a useful starting
point for their important work. If Gobuntu is not the best way to
achieve that, then I think we should stop working on it and encourage
folks who want that to focus their efforts on gNewSense, while at the
same time figuring out how Ubuntu can be more useful for gNewSense.

Mark




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Re: Debian glibc package

[Kamaraju S Kusumanchi]

hce wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am using linux-2.6-glibc23-i686 in FC6 box to compile audio and
> video application, what is the equivelant glibc I can use in Debian?
> 
> I searched following result, could not find similar glibc23 package.
> 
> $ apt-cache search glibc

Try something like
$apt-cache search --names-only glibc
glibc-doc - GNU C Library: Documentation
libc6-pic - GNU C Library: PIC archive library
libg++2.8.1.3-glibc2.2 - The GNU C++ extension library - runtime version
libstdc++2.10-glibc2.2 - The GNU stdc++ library
glibc-doc-reference - GNU C Library: Documentation
libc6 - GNU C Library: Shared libraries

Basically, you are looking for libc6.

glibc = "GNU C Library". glibc 2.x in Linux uses the soname libc.so.6. The
soname is often abbreviated as libc6.

> How can I install the source code to a local rather than to /usr
> directory?

apt-get source package_name

The above command does not need any special permissions. You can unpack the
source code in any directory you wish.

You might also need another command such as
apt-get build-dep package_name

this will automatically install all the dependencies necessary for compiling
the package_name.

hth
raju
-- 
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/
http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/


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Re: Source code editor

[Kamaraju S Kusumanchi]

Tero Mäntyvaara wrote:

> I am looking for shell program for source code edition. I have used
> nano, but it isn't enough. I need more "real" IDE like functionalities
> eg constant view of current row number, file browser and selection,
> cutting, pasting and copying functions. I also tried to use motor, but I
> got segmentation fault after execution... :-/ I am using Etch.


You will not find any "real" IDEs in Linux. However, vim/gvim can do what
you describe. Emacs (another powerful editor) is also capable of doing what
you describe.

hth
raju
-- 
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/
http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/


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Re: Source code editor

[Matthew Macdonald-Wallace]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:50:55 -0400
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> You will not find any "real" IDEs in Linux. However, vim/gvim can do
> what you describe. Emacs (another powerful editor) is also capable of
> doing what you describe.

If it's an IDE you're after, check out Eclipse[0].  It rocks.  'Nuff
Said. :oP


Matt

[0] http://www.eclipse.org/
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|
|Tel: 0330 088 1511
|Web: http://www.tiger-computing.co.uk
|
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Re: Source code editor

[David Goodenough]

On Tuesday 15 April 2008, Kamaraju S Kusumanchi wrote:
> Tero Mäntyvaara wrote:
> > I am looking for shell program for source code edition. I have used
> > nano, but it isn't enough. I need more "real" IDE like functionalities
> > eg constant view of current row number, file browser and selection,
> > cutting, pasting and copying functions. I also tried to use motor, but I
> > got segmentation fault after execution... :-/ I am using Etch.
>
> You will not find any "real" IDEs in Linux. However, vim/gvim can do what
> you describe. Emacs (another powerful editor) is also capable of doing what
> you describe.
>
> hth
> raju
> --
> Kamaraju S Kusumanchi
> http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/
> http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/

Well that is not entirely true.  One you will find (all beit back level) is 
Eclipse.  Now many people think of Eclipse as a Java IDE, but it is much more
and includes CDT for developing C and C++ code.  It has line numbers, file
 browsing and selection, context help, debugging etc all build in.  It also 
can work with various version control systems like CVS, SVN and the like,
and also has support for tracking bugs in Bugzilla, JIRA and Trac (in 
version 3.3).

You do need to install Java to run it, an it is not exactly light weight.

Personally I would not use the Debian packaged version (3.2.2-5) but
rather I would use version 3.3 which is easy to download and install.  I
use it with Sun Java-6 which is available as a Debian package.

David

Question about how "aptitude search" is used

[Daniel Burrows]

  Hello list,

  I'd like to get a feel for how people use "aptitude search".

# Background #
  
  One of the things I'd like to implement in an upcoming aptitude
release (probably post-lenny, likely next year) is a significant
overhaul of the UI to the search engine; that is, how searches are
entered and carried out from the interface.

  In the current CLI, "aptitude search blah" searches for packages
whose name contains "blah".  In contrast, "apt-cache search blah"
searches both package names and descriptions.  What I'd really like to
do is a full-text search with approximate matches on the whole package
index that returns packages which might be relevant to "blah", with an
option to sort the results by various relevance metrics.  Of course,
"aptitude search ?name(blah)" will always be available; this is just
about changing the default behavior on bare strings.

# Problem #

  The problem that I see is that aptitude's current behavior is
predictable enough that people might be relying on it in home-grown
scripts.  Changing the semantics of a command underneath a script is
impolite at best and will likely break things.

  The alternative if I decide to maintain backwards-compatibility is
to write a second command like "aptitude find" or "aptitude grok" or
what-have-you, or to add some parameters to the "search" command
(something like "--full-search").  In the first case, I get to answer
user questions about the difference between "find" and "search" until
the end of time, while in the second case, I get to answer user
questions about how to search on more than just package names until the
end of time.

  So, I'd really like to just change the default behavior of "search"
when it's given a bare string.  If I were designing the program up-front
this is what I'd do, and I think it's the best end-point.

# Question #

  How many readers of this list are using "aptitude search" as a
subcommand in a script?  Will you be impacted by this change?  Will
anyone else be adversely impacted despite not using it in a script?

Thanks,
  Daniel


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Re: Source code editor

[Matthew Macdonald-Wallace]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:07:10 +0100
Matthew Macdonald-Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> If it's an IDE you're after, check out Eclipse[0].  It rocks.  'Nuff
> Said. :oP

Sorry, missed the bit about needing a shell. :o(

If you're using a command line, as raju says use VIM or Emacs.  If you
can install an X environment then it's worth it for Eclipse! :o)

M.
-- 
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|
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|Web: http://www.tiger-computing.co.uk
|
|Registered in England. Company number: 3389961
|Registered address: Wyastone Business Park,
| Wyastone Leys, Monmouth, NP25 3SR


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Re: Source code editor

[Tero Mäntyvaara]

Matthew Macdonald-Wallace wrote:

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:50:55 -0400
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


You will not find any "real" IDEs in Linux. However, vim/gvim can do
what you describe. Emacs (another powerful editor) is also capable of
doing what you describe.


If it's an IDE you're after, check out Eclipse[0].  It rocks.  'Nuff
Said. :oP


Matt

[0] http://www.eclipse.org/


Eclipse is used in graphical user environment only. I wished to find a 
shell program. :-)



Tero Mäntyvaara


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Re: Source code editor

[Tero Mäntyvaara]

David Goodenough wrote:

On Tuesday 15 April 2008, Kamaraju S Kusumanchi wrote:

Tero Mäntyvaara wrote:

I am looking for shell program for source code edition. I have used
nano, but it isn't enough. I need more "real" IDE like functionalities
eg constant view of current row number, file browser and selection,
cutting, pasting and copying functions. I also tried to use motor, but I
got segmentation fault after execution... :-/ I am using Etch.

You will not find any "real" IDEs in Linux. However, vim/gvim can do what
you describe. Emacs (another powerful editor) is also capable of doing what
you describe.

hth
raju
--
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/
http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/


Well that is not entirely true.  One you will find (all beit back level) is 
Eclipse.  Now many people think of Eclipse as a Java IDE, but it is much more

and includes CDT for developing C and C++ code.  It has line numbers, file
 browsing and selection, context help, debugging etc all build in.  It also 
can work with various version control systems like CVS, SVN and the like,
and also has support for tracking bugs in Bugzilla, JIRA and Trac (in 
version 3.3).


You do need to install Java to run it, an it is not exactly light weight.

Personally I would not use the Debian packaged version (3.2.2-5) but
rather I would use version 3.3 which is easy to download and install.  I
use it with Sun Java-6 which is available as a Debian package.

David





Eclipse is used in graphical user environment only. I wished to find a 
shell program.  :-)



Tero Mäntyvaara


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Re: Question about how "aptitude search" is used

[Mumia W..]

On 04/15/2008 09:13 AM, Daniel Burrows wrote:

  Hello list,

  I'd like to get a feel for how people use "aptitude search".

# Background #
  
  One of the things I'd like to implement in an upcoming aptitude

release (probably post-lenny, likely next year) is a significant
overhaul of the UI to the search engine; that is, how searches are
entered and carried out from the interface.

  In the current CLI, "aptitude search blah" searches for packages
whose name contains "blah".  In contrast, "apt-cache search blah"
searches both package names and descriptions.  What I'd really like to
do is a full-text search with approximate matches on the whole package
index that returns packages which might be relevant to "blah", with an
option to sort the results by various relevance metrics.  Of course,
"aptitude search ?name(blah)" will always be available; this is just
about changing the default behavior on bare strings.



I like the current default behavior for bare strings.


# Problem #

  The problem that I see is that aptitude's current behavior is
predictable enough that people might be relying on it in home-grown
scripts.  Changing the semantics of a command underneath a script is
impolite at best and will likely break things.



Correct.


  The alternative if I decide to maintain backwards-compatibility is
to write a second command like "aptitude find" or "aptitude grok" or
what-have-you, or to add some parameters to the "search" command
(something like "--full-search").  In the first case, I get to answer
user questions about the difference between "find" and "search" until
the end of time, while in the second case, I get to answer user
questions about how to search on more than just package names until the
end of time.

  So, I'd really like to just change the default behavior of "search"
when it's given a bare string.  If I were designing the program up-front
this is what I'd do, and I think it's the best end-point.

# Question #

  How many readers of this list are using "aptitude search" as a
subcommand in a script?  Will you be impacted by this change?  Will
anyone else be adversely impacted despite not using it in a script?

Thanks,
  Daniel




I'm not using it in a script yet, but the default behavior of 'aptitude 
search' always made more sense to me that the default behavior of 
'apt-cache search.' I'm almost always looking for package name 
substrings, and when I do decide to search within descriptions, I'm not 
usually concerned with searching on the package names.


Anyway, for those few times when I need to search for a substring in 
both the package name and description, 'apt-cache search' is always 
available. Aptitude doesn't need to become a replica of apt-get.



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Re: Question about how "aptitude search" is used

[Kamaraju S Kusumanchi]

Daniel Burrows wrote:

> # Question #
> 
> How many readers of this list are using "aptitude search" as a
> subcommand in a script?  Will you be impacted by this change?  Will
> anyone else be adversely impacted despite not using it in a script?

I do not use aptitude search in a script and I am not affected by this
change. I think it would be great if "aptitude search" does what "apt-cache
search" is currently doing.

thanks
raju
-- 
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/
http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/


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Re: Kernel source packages..

[Digby Tarvin]

Many thanks to David, NN_il_Confusion and martin for their suggestions,
in particular..

On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 08:24:09PM -0700, David Witbrodt wrote:

> The book is great, but already a bit out of date.
> Krafft has a website (not recently updated) which
> includes error corrections and new information here:
>
> http://debiansystem.info
.
.

Excellent! Very glad to know about that we site. Thanks! (and to Martin
for setting it up)

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 07:05:33AM +0200, NN_il_Confusionario wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:52:41AM +, Digby Tarvin wrote:
> > Can anyone shed any light on the differences between the
> > various kernel source packages in the repository,
>
> kernel-source-* are for sarge and below
> linux-source-* are for etch and beyond
> Then do
> apt-cache show $PACKAGE
> and read the Description:
> (for example, difference between linux-source-2.6.18 and linux-tree-2.6.18)
.
.

I'm still a bit of a newbie with the Debian package management stuff.
Obviously a bit more reading to do, but it is nice to know there are
ways to get the answers to these things... thanks for the clues as to
where to look..

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 08:19:41AM +0200, martin f krafft wrote:

> Try linux-source-*. The kernel packaging has changed substantially
> since my book was published.
>
> I am working on a new edition. Unfortunately, I cannot foresee
> a release date yet.

Must be quite a job keeping up with a moving target like the
Debian system...

I hate the thought of throwing away my well thumbed first edition,
but I suppose it is inevitable. Maybe you should think of putting out
a yearly addendum between editions. I'd subscribe ;)

Are there, incidentally, any journals out there that are particulalry
good for debian users?

> > Can anyone explain what the reasonaing is behind this
> > organization?
>
> Did you see kernel-handbook.alioth.debian.org?

Thanks, stumbled across a link to this on the debian.org site after
I sent the original message. Still reading...

Regards,
DigbyT


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Re: Source code editor

[Kamaraju S Kusumanchi]

David Goodenough wrote:

> On Tuesday 15 April 2008, Kamaraju S Kusumanchi wrote:
>> Tero Mäntyvaara wrote:
>> > I am looking for shell program for source code edition. I have used
>> > nano, but it isn't enough. I need more "real" IDE like functionalities
>> > eg constant view of current row number, file browser and selection,
>> > cutting, pasting and copying functions. I also tried to use motor, but
>> > I got segmentation fault after execution... :-/ I am using Etch.
>>
>> You will not find any "real" IDEs in Linux. However, vim/gvim can do what
>> you describe. Emacs (another powerful editor) is also capable of doing
>> what you describe.
>>

> Well that is not entirely true.  One you will find (all beit back level)
> is Eclipse.  Now many people think of Eclipse as a Java IDE, but it is
> much more and includes CDT for developing C and C++ code.

The last time I took a stab at it, it can't do Fortran 90, shell scripting
(as the OP was asking). May be things have improved now.

hth
raju


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Re: Question about how "aptitude search" is used

[Osamu Aoki]

Hi,

I did not write complicated script with aptitude but I use long 1 liner
search in commandline often.  So feature change is concern to me.

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 07:13:30AM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
>   Hello list,
> 
>   I'd like to get a feel for how people use "aptitude search".
> 
> # Background #
>   
>   One of the things I'd like to implement in an upcoming aptitude
> release (probably post-lenny, likely next year) is a significant
> overhaul of the UI to the search engine; that is, how searches are
> entered and carried out from the interface.
> 
>   In the current CLI, "aptitude search blah" searches for packages
> whose name contains "blah".  In contrast, "apt-cache search blah"
> searches both package names and descriptions.  What I'd really like to
> do is a full-text search with approximate matches on the whole package
> index that returns packages which might be relevant to "blah", with an
> option to sort the results by various relevance metrics.  Of course,
> "aptitude search ?name(blah)" will always be available; this is just
> about changing the default behavior on bare strings.

Changing default behavior on bare strings seems minor problem to me.

I thought thare are 3 simple uses for old search patterns:
 1. aptitude search blah
 2. aptitude search ~nblah
 3. aptitude search ~dblah

1 and 2 are the same result now.

If you want to make
aptitude search blah
acts as:
aptitude search "~nblah|~dblah"

You need to tell in NEWS file that local scripts need to add "~n" before
serch string to make it act as before under the new version.

"?name(blah)": is this your new syntax?  Yes I see it now in manpage.  
I do not like this one since "?" is used as metacharacter for regex in
ERE.  Aptitude is extended ERE as I understand before you aded this.
The extension was "~".  When did you add this?  Why did not you chose
sequence like "~?name(blah)" as long expression.  Then ? is clearly not
part of ERE expression.  For example, "~ddpkg~ndpkg" is good pattern but 
"~ddpkg?name(dpkg)" can not be parsed correctly.

(Is this what mutt does too?  I never used mutt regrex much...)

> # Problem #
> 
>   The problem that I see is that aptitude's current behavior is
> predictable enough that people might be relying on it in home-grown
> scripts.  Changing the semantics of a command underneath a script is
> impolite at best and will likely break things.

Impolite... maybe if you did not announce.  But if you have that
announced for lenny, doing so for lenny+1 is fine.

(Did you do that for new "?" syntax?  Was this hidden feature?)

>   The alternative if I decide to maintain backwards-compatibility is
> to write a second command like "aptitude find" or "aptitude grok" or
> what-have-you, or to add some parameters to the "search" command
> (something like "--full-search").  In the first case, I get to answer
> user questions about the difference between "find" and "search" until
> the end of time, while in the second case, I get to answer user
> questions about how to search on more than just package names until the
> end of time.

I think that will be confusing ... too.

If what you are thinking is such simple one, NEWS with advanced notice
is enough for me.

>   So, I'd really like to just change the default behavior of "search"
> when it's given a bare string.  If I were designing the program up-front
> this is what I'd do, and I think it's the best end-point.

I think it is good idea even now.

> # Question #
> 
>   How many readers of this list are using "aptitude search" as a
> subcommand in a script?  Will you be impacted by this change?  Will
> anyone else be adversely impacted despite not using it in a script?

Not me as I said.

I will appreciate lenny last update to include README or README.Debian
stating pending feature change (possibly in manpage too.)

Then with NEWS for lenny+1, you should be OK.  I am sure you have few
more upload with new translation etc.  You can add this kind of
documentation change then.

Osamu


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Re: Question about how "aptitude search" is used

[Jochen Schulz]

Daniel Burrows:
> 
>   In the current CLI, "aptitude search blah" searches for packages
> whose name contains "blah".  In contrast, "apt-cache search blah"
> searches both package names and descriptions.

Which is the reason why I am almost exclusively using apt-cache for
searches (and probably the reason why I cannot remember aptitude's
search options, even though they are great).

> What I'd really like to do is a full-text search with approximate
> matches on the whole package index that returns packages which might
> be relevant to "blah", with an option to sort the results by various
> relevance metrics.

I like the full-text search idea, but I dislike the idea of approximate
matches (without it being a different command or a parameter). It makes
search results less predictable and hurts cases where your search terms
yield many results anyway.

On the other hand I have to plug this:
 :)

>   How many readers of this list are using "aptitude search" as a
> subcommand in a script?  Will you be impacted by this change?  Will
> anyone else be adversely impacted despite not using it in a script?

I don't write many scripts for my boxes but I don't use Debian in a
commercial environment where scripting comes in handy more often. So
besides my comments above, I would not be impacted.

Another aspect you should consider is speed. Aptitude is already quite
slow and memory intensive. In my opinion, you should refrain from making
it even more unsuitable for low-end devices than it already is. It's
Debian's preferred package manager, after all.

J.
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Firewall froth..

[Digby Tarvin]

My personal system is connected to the Internet via an ADSL router which
doesn't give me any information about what doesn't get through. 

However I recently helped a friend setup a Debian box to act as firewall/router
between his cable modem and local LAN, which has given me access to a lot
more detail...

The system is a Debian Etch 40r3 netinstall with Shorewall used to configure
an iptables firewall/router. The hardware has two ethernet interfaces, eth0
connects to the cable modem, eth1 connects to the local lan..

The problem I am having is that the messages from the firewall really
flood /var/log/messages to the point where I am concerned they may cause
me to miss other important things.

My rules file is setup with:
ACCEPT  net fw  tcp 22
ACCEPT  net fw  icmp
DROPnet fw  udp 1026:1029

where the list line was to filter out the most frequent messages, but
I am not really sure what, if any, rejected connections/packets I
should be looking out for, and what should just be ignored...

Perhaps I should redirect the firewall logs to a separate file? Or
just stick my head in the sand and log nothing - which is presumably
the situation with my dsl router..

Here is an example of the last dozen or so messages in the log:
 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=1739 DPT=2933 WINDOW=65535 RES=0x00 SYN URGP=0 
Shorewall:net2all:DROP:IN=eth0 OUT= 
MAC=00:02:a5:f7:47:a8:00:0b:bf:51:60:01:08:00 SRC=125.45.93.1 DST=81.105.30.126 
LEN=40 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=106 ID=44567 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=12200 DPT=1080 
WINDOW=8192 RES=0x00 SYN URGP=0 
Shorewall:net2all:DROP:IN=eth0 OUT= 
MAC=00:02:a5:f7:47:a8:00:0b:bf:51:60:01:08:00 SRC=71.156.118.7 
DST=81.105.30.126 LEN=48 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x20 TTL=116 ID=17119 DF PROTO=TCP 
SPT=3968 DPT=3306 WINDOW=16384 RES=0x00 SYN URGP=0 
Shorewall:net2all:DROP:IN=eth0 OUT= 
MAC=00:02:a5:f7:47:a8:00:0b:bf:51:60:01:08:00 SRC=71.156.118.7 
DST=81.105.30.126 LEN=48 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x20 TTL=116 ID=18256 DF PROTO=TCP 
SPT=3968 DPT=3306 WINDOW=16384 RES=0x00 SYN URGP=0 
Shorewall:net2all:DROP:IN=eth0 OUT= 
MAC=00:02:a5:f7:47:a8:00:0b:bf:51:60:01:08:00 SRC=88.109.202.188 
DST=81.105.30.126 LEN=58 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=119 ID=4407 PROTO=UDP SPT=8184 
DPT=2933 LEN=38 
Shorewall:net2all:DROP:IN=eth0 OUT= 
MAC=00:02:a5:f7:47:a8:00:0b:bf:51:60:01:08:00 SRC=88.109.202.188 
DST=81.105.30.126 LEN=58 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=119 ID=4409 PROTO=UDP SPT=8184 
DPT=2933 LEN=38 
Shorewall:net2all:DROP:IN=eth0 OUT= 
MAC=00:02:a5:f7:47:a8:00:0b:bf:51:60:01:08:00 SRC=88.109.202.188 
DST=81.105.30.126 LEN=58 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=119 ID=4410 PROTO=UDP SPT=8184 
DPT=2933 LEN=38 

Is this normal? Anyone know where all this rejected traffic represents?

Regards,
DigbyT


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Re: sidux

[Amit Uttamchandani]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:27:22 +0200
Rico Secada <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:35:56 -0700
> Andrew Sackville-West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 06:25:11PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> > > Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> > > > The crucial bit that many miss is that new packages don't move
> > > > into testing unless they've sat in unstable with no new bug
> > > > reports for 10 days (I think).
> > > 
> > > Or 5 days (urgency=medium in changelog).
> > > Or 2 days (urgency=high).
> > > Or 1 day if it's a bad enough problem (urgency=emergency).
> > 
> > thanks Joey.
> > 
> > In your opinion, am I right in my assessment that testing is more
> > likely to be in an unusable state for longer than sid?  (at least at
> > the package, not system, level)?
> 
> That's contrary to my experience.
> 
> The must critical bugs gets caught before they enter into testing so in
> testing they are non-existant.
> 
> Testing are more stable and a much "safer-bet" as a desktop system than
> unstable.
> 
> At our office we run stable for our servers, but testing for our
> desktops. In the last couple of years we haven't found any problems
> what so ever running testing. It is a very stable desktop system.
> 
> > I have been making this claim for a while, but it's really only based
> > on my intuition of the situation and not any direct experience.
> > 
> > A
> > 
> 

I had the same question as the OP and this thread/post answered it.

I installed debian stabled "etch" on my desktop system. This was my first step 
into the linux world. I found that it was amazingly stable but the software was 
out of date. I found I had to compile a lot of things from source, which was 
good because I learned a lot!

But now for my new desktop system I am ready to migrate it into testing.

Thanks everyone.

Amit


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Re: sidux

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:46:26AM +0200, Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
> Joey Hess wrote:

Both of you, thanks!

> > Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> >> In your opinion, am I right in my assessment that testing is more
> >> likely to be in an unusable state for longer than sid?  (at least at
> >> the package, not system, level)?
> > 
> > No, I don't think so. If a package has a bug that makes it unusable,
> > then 
> > 
> > a) Someone will generally notice a bug in the two weeks before that buggy
> >package gets into testing, and file a RC bug to keep it out.
> > b) If a bug that makes a package unusable does get into testing, it
> >can be fixed in 2 days in most cases.
> > c) The graph of release critical bugs[1] currently shows 1750 in unstable,
> >and only 571 of those affect testing. (658 of them affect *stable*).
> >http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/
> 

Interesting to see that Etch has more RC bugs than Lenny at this
point. 

> I second the experience that there are not too many, if any serious
> problems with testing. I've been using testing on 'newer' computers --
> especially laptops -- that wouldn't run well with stable for a total of
> years and never had any serious problem.
> 
> Testing has the benefit that -- unlike unstable -- it will eventually
> become stable. I enjoy the 'quiescence' that sets in after testing
> becomes stable and there is nothing happening to my system, except for
> trivial security fixes. If you are like me and generally prefer 'stable'
> software, than 'testing' is your route.


Well, then I'll adjust my view accordingly ;) 

I seem to recall *something* (who knows what at this point) that
slipped into testing early after the sarge release and because of a
series of unfortunate events, the poor testing users were stuck with
serious problems while those in sid blithely moved along. I'll chalk
it up to either a one-off situation or (more likely) corrupted bits in
the ol' wetware.

A


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Re: sidux

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:16:19AM +1000, Rich Healey wrote:
> Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
...
> > 
> > I personally wouldn't run a testing system for regular use. I would
> > run sid or stable (with backports as needed). Of course, YMMV.
> > 
...

> Interesting, when you put it like that it does make sense.
> 
> So now I'm tempted to bump my work machine up to sid.
> 
> just to see if the X server in sid still hates my vm..
> 

Well, I hope you're still reading the thread, as I've been largely refuted...

A


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Re: Backup system drive copy won't boot GRUB

[Brett Charbeneau]

Boot in rescue mode, chroot to the backup drive and reinstall the
kernel...? I'm suspecting you need to update your initrd. I've had
similar problems and that was the missing link.


Spot on!
	Man, you likely saved me HOURS more work struggling with this - whew. 
Thank you VERY much for your suggestion!



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Network Administrator
Williamsburg Regional Library
7770 Croaker Road
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(757)259-4044  www.wrl.org
(757)259-4079 (fax)[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: sidux

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 08:34:30PM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 03:09:26PM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
>  
> > Contrast that with sid, bug fixes happen fast. It seems, in my limited
> > experience, that serious bugs that get caught in sid rapidly
> > disappear, sometimes within hours. Sure there's more churn and
> > potentially more opportunities for breakage, but it seems to be pretty
> > short-lived. 
> > 
> > I've run sid on my desktops for about 4 years now (wow! when did that
> > happen) and I can count on one hand the number of times I've had a
> > serious enough breakage to cause a real problem for my work. And I can
> > count on one finger the number of breakages that required real work to
> > get out of (unbootable system...).
> 
> Just remember that a serious (is there such a thing as a non-serious)
> security bug doesn't usually show up as breakage.

yeah, that's a good point, thanks for mentioning it. 

I actually have all my public facing services on an etch box except
sshd on my desktop. And that does concern me a bit, but I don't lose
sleep over it.

I set sshd pubkey only and run fail-2-ban with a long ban time
(usually 48 hours) and I think that does it pretty well.

A


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Re: sidux + a word on Debian

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:03:52AM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:47:08 +0200
> Rico Secada <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > The unstable isn't really unstable per say, but it just breaks from time
> > to time because so many changes are added daily. From time to time the
> > dependencies between packages doesn't fit and stuff breaks.
> 
> As people have often explained on this list, the choice of the term
> unstable is somewhat unfortunate.  You're saying that it works pretty
> well except for the occasional breakage, but what unstable really means
> is that stuff *changes*.  For example, Shorewall will get upgraded, and
> voila, no more networking until you rewrite your configuration files,
> after having learned the new format.

excellent description. MY wife, whose box is running mostly-up-to-date
sid, is annoyed because every few months some program changes it's
icon or some bit of its interface layout... another aspect of
"unstable". 

A


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Re: Reg Blind

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 07:39:40PM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 03:13:07PM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> > > On 14-Apr-08, at 9:58 AM, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> > >> Perhaps debian should have an accessible install CD in addition to all
> > >> the different DTE install CDs.  E.g. one where sound works on most  
> > >> boxes
> > >> and comes up with voice prompts automatically.  Ideally, it would be a
> > >> whole new installer with question/answer dialogs with a repeat  
> > >> function
> > >> as in (say that again?).
>  
> > Doug, I think it's a great idea -- I wonder just how complicated it is
> > to get sound up and working during the install... It can't be that
> > bad, I think windows does it.
> 
> If it turns out to be difficult (perhaps due to size constraints),
> perhaps there could be one or two popular (cheap) hardware options for
> people who find it doesn't work.  E.g. "If you don't hear "Welcome to
> the Debian Installer" when you boot the installer, you may attach one of
> the following to your computer temporarily during the install: sb
> (supports a lot of cards), or perhaps a USB device that is easy to find
> and cheap.

hmm... reading this leads me to think that someone who *needs* sound
(a category that most of us *don't* fall into no matter how much we
think we might) would be particularly conscious of the need to have
compatible sound equipment. It may be that the majority of blid
computer users already think of this -- "I need sound that positively
works" -- and purchase equipment accordingly. But that's only a
guess. My point though is that it may not be such a difficult problem
as we think. Put the most common, most compatible, drivers in and call
it good. 

Is there a "standard" sound interface? sort of like there is the vesa
driver in video that works with (essentiall) *every* video card? 

and one more thought. Could it be possible to write a video driver
that is essentially a dummy? A blind user does need X to actually draw
on the screen (unless they're working with a sighted assistant). It
only needs X to think it's drawing on the screen...

just some, probably very naive, thoughts on the issue...

A


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Re: Packages temporarily disappearing from Testing/Lenny

[Andrew Sackville-West]

we really need to conflate this thread with the sidux one...


On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:45:47AM +0200, Sven Joachim wrote:
> On 2008-04-15 01:47 +0200, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 08:20:00PM +0200, David wrote:
> >  
> >> comix - The version in Testing had security problems, so it was
> >> removed automatically (however, the insecure version stayed in
> >> Unstable). Almost a month later a fixed version was uploaded to stable
> >> and 10 days later it moved to Testing.
> >
> > Everyone who thinks of using Sid needs to read and understand this
> > paragraph.  "However, the insecure version stayed in Unstable".  Just
> > because Sid includes the latest doesn't mean its the greatest.  I don't
> > think that, e.g. aptitude pops up a warning "WARNING: you are trying to
> > install an insecure version of comix".  
> 
> It is true that sid users should generally check out for grave bugs and
> security issues of packages they want to install, but the same holds for
> testing.  After all, buggy packages will not be removed quickly and an
> update will first be available in unstable before it migrates to
> testing.

is it not true that _security_ patches migrate to testing through a
different route than the one to sid? I kind of picture it like this:

testing security team "finds" security bug, writes patch and pushes it
to testing and (Probably?) passing it back upstream as well. THen
upstream incorporates the fix and it works its way into sid through
upstream's regular release cycle?

I suppose I should shut-up and start reading more about debian
security...

A


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fonts for certificates, preferable open source but free will do

[H.S.]

Hello,

I am looking for fonts to make a bunch of certificates. I think these 
are called Calligraphic or Gothic fonts? Any good resource for these?


So far, I have found Isabella that is something like what I am looking for:
{tmp}$> apt-cache search calligraphic
texlive-fonts-extra - TeX Live: Extra fonts
texlive-latex-extra - TeX Live: LaTeX supplementary packages
ttf-gfs-solomos - ancient Greek oblique font
ttf-isabella - The Isabella free TrueType font
ttf-uralic - Truetype fonts for Cyrillic-based Uralic languages


thanks.


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Re: sidux + a word on Debian

[Rico Secada]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:03:52 -0400
Celejar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:47:08 +0200
> Rico Secada <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > The unstable isn't really unstable per say, but it just breaks from
> > time to time because so many changes are added daily. From time to
> > time the dependencies between packages doesn't fit and stuff breaks.
> 
> As people have often explained on this list, the choice of the term
> unstable is somewhat unfortunate.  You're saying that it works pretty
> well except for the occasional breakage, but what unstable really
> means is that stuff *changes*.  For example, Shorewall will get
> upgraded, and voila, no more networking until you rewrite your
> configuration files, after having learned the new format.

That was what I wrote: "so many changes are added daily". :-)

> 
> Celejar
> --
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> ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator
> 
> 
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> 



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Re: Firewall froth..

[Brian McKee]

On 15-Apr-08, at 11:42 AM, Digby Tarvin wrote:

The problem I am having is that the messages from the firewall really
flood /var/log/messages to the point where I am concerned they may  
cause

me to miss other important things.
...
Perhaps I should redirect the firewall logs to a separate file? Or
just stick my head in the sand and log nothing - which is presumably
the situation with my dsl router..



If it's dropped - then the firewall did it's job.
Why look at the results unless you have a problem?
Worry about what's getting through, not what isn't

Brian


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Re: migrating to 64 bit...

[Sam Leon]

Could one easily upgrade to an amd64 system just by formating /, 
reinstalling with the proper arch, and then reinstalling all the apps 
that were installed and hopefully all the conf files in /home/user will 
be compatible with the arch change of kde and other apps? (of course I 
am only talking about if you have /home and a separate partition)


Thanks,
Sam


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Re: Source code editor

[Kim N. Lesmer]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:00:27 +0300
Tero Mäntyvaara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I am looking for shell program for source code edition. I have used 
> nano, but it isn't enough. I need more "real" IDE like
> functionalities eg constant view of current row number, file browser
> and selection, cutting, pasting and copying functions. I also tried
> to use motor, but I got segmentation fault after execution... :-/ I
> am using Etch.
> 

I use "mcedit" the editor that commes with the Midnight Commander
package.

# apt-get install mc

It has got all you mention and it is really easy to use too.

$ mcedit foo.cpp

It also highlights the code pretty nicely, and it can recognize
different formats.

> Tero Mäntyvaara
> 
> 
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 


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Kim N. Lesmer
Programmer/Systems administrator

Web: www.bitflop.com
E-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Question about how "aptitude search" is used

[Kim N. Lesmer]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:13:30 -0700
Daniel Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi Daniel.

>   How many readers of this list are using "aptitude search" as a
> subcommand in a script?  Will you be impacted by this change?  Will
> anyone else be adversely impacted despite not using it in a script?

I have always been annoyed with this exact problem, but I don't think
the solution you think about implementing (doing like apt-cache) is the
best way to go.

I would recommend trying to mimic something like the search function of
the FreeBSD ports system with specific options so that it is very easy
and intuitive to use and, at the same time, you can still make it
backward compatible.

Default behaviour:

>From FreeBSD:
$ make search name=foo

Aptitude:
$ aptitude search foo

OR newly added feature

$ aptitude search name=foo

>From FreeBSD:
$ make search key=bar

Wich searches both names and descriptions.

$ aptitude search key=bar

Anyway, just a thought.

> 
> Thanks,
>   Daniel
> 
> 
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linux-patch-exec-shield

[Freddy Freeloader]

Hi all,

I was wanting to use the linux-patch-exec-shield on the 2.6.24-5 kernel 
but only see patches in sid up to 2.6.21.  Does anyone know if this 
patch has been integrated into the later kernels and that's why it's not 
available for them? 



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Re: Reg Blind

[Andrei Popescu]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:48:36AM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
 
> Is there a "standard" sound interface? sort of like there is the vesa
> driver in video that works with (essentiall) *every* video card? 
 
The Sound Blaster 16 used to be the standard. 

> and one more thought. Could it be possible to write a video driver
> that is essentially a dummy? A blind user does need X to actually draw
> on the screen (unless they're working with a sighted assistant). It
> only needs X to think it's drawing on the screen...

apt-cache show xserver-xorg-video-dummy

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Re: Packages temporarily disappearing from Testing/Lenny

[Sven Joachim]

On 2008-04-15 18:43 +0200, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:45:47AM +0200, Sven Joachim wrote:
>> It is true that sid users should generally check out for grave bugs and
>> security issues of packages they want to install, but the same holds for
>> testing.  After all, buggy packages will not be removed quickly and an
>> update will first be available in unstable before it migrates to
>> testing.
>
> is it not true that _security_ patches migrate to testing through a
> different route than the one to sid? I kind of picture it like this:
>
> testing security team "finds" security bug, writes patch and pushes it
> to testing and (Probably?) passing it back upstream as well. THen
> upstream incorporates the fix and it works its way into sid through
> upstream's regular release cycle?

In general, no.  First, the testing security team also works as security
team for unstable: if the maintainer does not react in time and uploads
a fix himself, they usually upload directly to unstable as well.

Secondly, they only upload to testing-security if the fixed package for
unstable is not expected to migrate quickly.  You can see¹ that Iceweasel
has still an unfixed version in testing, while both stable and unstable
have the latest upstream version.  Apparently it did not build on mips
and mipsel.

> I suppose I should shut-up and start reading more about debian
> security...

I'd recommend to start with http://testing-security.debian.net/, that
gives a good overview what this team is about.

Regards,
Sven


¹ http://packages.qa.debian.org/i/iceweasel.html


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Problem compiling simple C program

[John Salmon]

I'm running Debian Etch on a PC. When I try to compile the following 
(called test.c);

#include 
#include 

int main()
{
double
val = 1.55;

printf("sine: %g\n", sin(val));

return 0;
}

using the command line

gcc -Wall -o test test.c

I get

/tmp/cciDV02m.o: In function `main':
test.c:(.text+0x21): undefined reference to `sin'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

When I compile the equivalent C++ program using the apropriate C++ 
parameters, everything goes great. Have I neglected to load a Debian 
package? Any help will be appreciated.
-- 
John Salmon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: sidux + a word on Debian

[Sven Joachim]

On 2008-04-15 18:35 +0200, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:

> excellent description. MY wife, whose box is running mostly-up-to-date
> sid, is annoyed because every few months some program changes it's
> icon or some bit of its interface layout... another aspect of
> "unstable". 

True.  Probably stable would be better for your wife, although there is
one problem: after a new stable release, _almost every_ program has
changed, and often quite drastically.

Maybe she should just use Windows XP, which has been virtually unchanged
for seven years.  *duck*

Sven


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Re: Problem compiling simple C program

[Sven Joachim]

On 2008-04-15 20:39 +0200, John Salmon wrote:

> I'm running Debian Etch on a PC. When I try to compile the following 
> (called test.c);
>
> #include 
> #include 
>
> int main()
> {
> double
> val = 1.55;
>
> printf("sine: %g\n", sin(val));
>
> return 0;
> }
>
> using the command line
>
> gcc -Wall -o test test.c
>
> I get
>
> /tmp/cciDV02m.o: In function `main':
> test.c:(.text+0x21): undefined reference to `sin'
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

You need to link to the math library by specifying -lm _at the end_ of
the gcc command line, otherwise the linker does not know about the sin()
function.

> When I compile the equivalent C++ program using the apropriate C++ 
> parameters, everything goes great. Have I neglected to load a Debian 
> package? Any help will be appreciated.

That is to be expected, because C++ programs are automatically linked
against the math library.  In C you have to tell the linker to use it
with -lm.

Sven


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Re: Problem compiling simple C program

[Sergio Cuéllar Valdés]

2008/4/15, John Salmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> I'm running Debian Etch on a PC. When I try to compile the following
>  (called test.c);
>
>  #include 
>  #include 
>
>  int main()
>  {
> double
> val = 1.55;
>
> printf("sine: %g\n", sin(val));
>
> return 0;
>  }
>
>  using the command line
>
>  gcc -Wall -o test test.c
>
>  I get
>
>  /tmp/cciDV02m.o: In function `main':
>  test.c:(.text+0x21): undefined reference to `sin'
>  collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
>
>  When I compile the equivalent C++ program using the apropriate C++
>  parameters, everything goes great. Have I neglected to load a Debian
>  package? Any help will be appreciated.

Use the -lm flag

Regards,
Sergio Cuellar

-- 
"Meine Hoffnung soll mich leiten
Durch die Tage ohne Dich
Und die Liebe soll mich tragen
Wenn der Schmerz die Hoffnung bricht"


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Re: Source code editor

[Mark Clarkson]

Hi Tero,
Vim is great for this but has a steep learning curve. Vim is also tuned for
touch typists, which eventually pushed me into learning touch typing, which
is great, especially for night time coding. One really simple and often
overlooked feature is being able to view source code in two columns, which
is something I've never seen in graphical IDEs - for this reason I always
make my code fit into 80 cols and have 4 character tabs. Ctags and Cscope
are supported natively so jumping to functions/definitions is easy.
Syntax highlighting is good, it now has a form of 'intellisense' and
tabs in version 7, plus excellent regular expression search/replace,
multi-branch undo, keystroke recording (I use alot) and a great diff
viewer (invoked with vimdiff usually). It also does the things you
mentioned!

Cheers
Mark.

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:00:27 +0300, Tero Mäntyvaara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I am looking for shell program for source code edition. I have used 
> nano, but it isn't enough. I need more "real" IDE like functionalities 
> eg constant view of current row number, file browser and selection, 
> cutting, pasting and copying functions. I also tried to use motor, but I 
> got segmentation fault after execution... :-/ I am using Etch.
> 
> 
> Tero Mäntyvaara
> 
> 
>

Re: Firewall froth..

[Digby Tarvin]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 01:23:59PM -0400, Brian McKee wrote:
>
> On 15-Apr-08, at 11:42 AM, Digby Tarvin wrote:
> >The problem I am having is that the messages from the firewall really
> >flood /var/log/messages to the point where I am concerned they may
> >cause
> >me to miss other important things.
> >...
> >Perhaps I should redirect the firewall logs to a separate file? Or
> >just stick my head in the sand and log nothing - which is presumably
> >the situation with my dsl router..
> >
>
> If it's dropped - then the firewall did it's job.
> Why look at the results unless you have a problem?
> Worry about what's getting through, not what isn't
>
> Brian

Thanks, that's what I was thinking. If anyone can think of a reason
not to extend the 
DROPnet fw  udp 1026:1029
so that logging for all blocked packets is supressed i'd be interested
in hearing it..

Just out of curousity, does anyone know what any of this bogus traffic
to (for example ports 1947 and 1948 are popular at the moment) might be?
Is it common to see this much noise? Is it perhaps undocumented traffic
generated by windows systems that others have connected directly to the
net? Or perhaps malicious traffic targeting vulnerabilities of windows
systems that might be unfirewalled on the net?

Regards,.
DigbyT


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Re: Source code editor

[Lesley Binks]

On 15/04/2008, Tero Mäntyvaara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am looking for shell program for source code edition. I have used nano,
> but it isn't enough. I need more "real" IDE like functionalities eg constant
> view of current row number, file browser and selection, cutting, pasting and
> copying functions. I also tried to use motor, but I got segmentation fault
> after execution... :-/ I am using Etch.
>
>
>  Tero Mäntyvaara
>
Tero

I use vi and vim on separate machines.  Really what you are asking for
is an ncurses IDE but I don't know of any around.

Vim is vi improved and has syntax highlighting ( ':synatx enable' but
don't forget ':set background=light|dark' first - choose light or dark
there ). Vim is easier to use than vi in some respects but uses the vi
commands like 'i; to insert, ':sh' to get to a shell, and so on.  My
OpenBSD box has vi not vim.

Look up the cheat sheets on vi.  One useful command to remember is Esc
to stop inserting or get out of another command.  ':help' may help too
but is a bit archaic in it's navigation technique so learn that first.

I think it is worth learning vi/vim because you will encounter it on
many *nix and BSD systems.

Regards

L.

Re: migrating to 64 bit...

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 04/15/08 12:32, Sam Leon wrote:
> Could one easily upgrade to an amd64 system just by formating /,
> reinstalling with the proper arch, and then reinstalling all the apps
> that were installed and hopefully all the conf files in /home/user will
> be compatible with the arch change of kde and other apps? (of course I
> am only talking about if you have /home and a separate partition)

That's what I'd do...  I'd also cherry pick certain important files
and directories from /etc, such as those that configure the MTA,
plus a few from /var/games that keep high scores, nethack bones
files, etc.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

We want... a Shrubbery!!
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=2VFe
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Re: Source code editor

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 04/15/08 15:35, Lesley Binks wrote:
> On 15/04/2008, Tero Mäntyvaara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I am looking for shell program for source code edition. I have used nano,
>> but it isn't enough. I need more "real" IDE like functionalities eg constant
>> view of current row number, file browser and selection, cutting, pasting and
>> copying functions. I also tried to use motor, but I got segmentation fault
>> after execution... :-/ I am using Etch.
>>
>>
>>  Tero Mäntyvaara
>>
> Tero
> 
> I use vi and vim on separate machines.  Really what you are asking for
> is an ncurses IDE but I don't know of any around.

It's a darned shame that there are no IDEs similar to the one in
Turbo Pascal.

> Vim is vi improved and has syntax highlighting ( ':synatx enable' but
> don't forget ':set background=light|dark' first - choose light or dark
> there ). Vim is easier to use than vi in some respects but uses the vi
> commands like 'i; to insert, ':sh' to get to a shell, and so on.  My
> OpenBSD box has vi not vim.
> 
> Look up the cheat sheets on vi.  One useful command to remember is Esc
> to stop inserting or get out of another command.  ':help' may help too
> but is a bit archaic in it's navigation technique so learn that first.
> 
> I think it is worth learning vi/vim because you will encounter it on
> many *nix and BSD systems.

- --
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Jefferson LA  USA

We want... a Shrubbery!!
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=eyZd
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Re: Firewall froth..

[Alex Samad]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:06:01PM +, Digby Tarvin wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 01:23:59PM -0400, Brian McKee wrote:
> >
> > On 15-Apr-08, at 11:42 AM, Digby Tarvin wrote:
> > >The problem I am having is that the messages from the firewall really
> > >flood /var/log/messages to the point where I am concerned they may
> > >cause
> > >me to miss other important things.
> > >...
> > >Perhaps I should redirect the firewall logs to a separate file? Or
> > >just stick my head in the sand and log nothing - which is presumably
> > >the situation with my dsl router..
> > >
> >
> > If it's dropped - then the firewall did it's job.
> > Why look at the results unless you have a problem?
> > Worry about what's getting through, not what isn't
> >
> > Brian
> 
> Thanks, that's what I was thinking. If anyone can think of a reason
> not to extend the 
> DROPnet fw  udp 1026:1029
> so that logging for all blocked packets is supressed i'd be interested
> in hearing it..

just be careful with UDP its a connectionless protocol, there for any
UDP streams will not be caught in the state RELATED,ESTABLISHED line,
for example if you block of UDP 53 (DNS)



> 
> Just out of curousity, does anyone know what any of this bogus traffic
> to (for example ports 1947 and 1948 are popular at the moment) might be?
> Is it common to see this much noise? Is it perhaps undocumented traffic
> generated by windows systems that others have connected directly to the
> net? Or perhaps malicious traffic targeting vulnerabilities of windows
> systems that might be unfirewalled on the net?
> 
> Regards,.
> DigbyT
> 
> 
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> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 

-- 
"So I don't know where [Bin Laden] is.  You know, I just don't spend that much 
time on him."

- George W. Bush
03/13/2002
Washington, DC
White House Press Conference


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JFS

[Alex Samad]

Hi

I remember reading in the list that JFS was a dying FS, because IBM
wasn't maintaining it full time. And that it might disappear from the
kernel soon.

Any one still using it.  I was actually thinking of using it for my /tmp
directory 

Alex



-- 
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Branch.  I have a duty to protect the Executive Branch from legislative 
encroachment."

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03/13/2002
Washington, DC
White House Press Conference


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Re: Source code editor

[Strake]

Emacs is a versatile editor and functions quite well as an IDE. Any
features not included out-of-the-box can be easily added using Emacs
Lisp script, but don't worry about learning that, because most, if not
all, functions you'll need are in the stock version or have already
been written.

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 9:00 AM, Tero Mäntyvaara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am looking for shell program for source code edition. I have used nano,
> but it isn't enough. I need more "real" IDE like functionalities eg constant
> view of current row number, file browser and selection, cutting, pasting and
> copying functions. I also tried to use motor, but I got segmentation fault
> after execution... :-/ I am using Etch.
>
>
>  Tero Mäntyvaara
>
>
>  --
>  To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a
> subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>

Re: IO diagnose tools?

[Gilles Mocellin]

Le Tuesday 15 April 2008 06:28:51 NN_il_Confusionario, vous avez écrit :
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:23:25AM +0800, Ding Honghui wrote:
> > vmstat 1 shows my debian box wa in field cpu is about 9x% and bi in
> > field io is high(about 2000-7000).
> > 1. Is it means some processes are accessing my disk heavly?
> > 2. If so, is there any IO diagnose tools exist to find out which process
> > is?
>
> I would try top htop sar/iostat/mpstat (package sysstat) ... and/or
> other things that you can find with apt-cache search
>
> --
> Chi usa software non libero avvelena anche te. Digli di smettere.
> Informatica=arsenico: minime dosi in rari casi patologici, altrimenti
> letale. Informatica=bomba: intelligente solo per gli stupidi che ci
> credono.

Since 2.6.24 kernel, atop can show you disk usage, by process.
Type "d" to sort by disk usage.


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Re: Problems with vmware-server-console

[Miguel Gaiowski]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 2:35 AM, Alex Samad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 09:02:54PM -0300, Miguel Gaiowski wrote:
> > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 8:32 PM, Chris Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> [snip]
> >   CC [M]  /tmp/vmware-config13/vmmon-only/common/task.o
> > gcc-4.1: error trying to exec 'cc1plus': execvp: No such file or
> directory
>
> you are missing the c++ compiler
>
>
Yep, I was missing g++ 4.1.

Thanks


>
> > make[2]: *** [/tmp/vmware-config13/vmmon-only/common/task.o] Error 1
> > make[1]: *** [_module_/tmp/vmware-config13/vmmon-only] Error 2
> > make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.24-1-686'
> > make: *** [vmmon.ko] Error 2
> > make: Leaving directory `/tmp/vmware-config13/vmmon-only'
> > Unable to build the vmmon module.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Miguel Fco. A. de Mattos Gaiowski
>
> --
> You are number 6!  Who is number one?
>
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-- 
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SMP apm

[Digby Tarvin]

Just been chaseing up some post install loose ends, one of which was
getting the 'automatic power off on halt' to work...

The steps required turned out to be:
a. apt-get install apm
b. echo apm >>/etc/modules
c. echo 'options apm power_off=1' >/etc/modprobe.d/apm

which seems to have done the trick nicely.

However I am a little concerned about the messages produced when apm
is loaded:
apm: BIOS version 1.2 Flags 0x03 (Driver version 1.16ac)
apm: disabled - APM is not SMP safe (power off active).

This is a SMP motherboard with two cpu's installed:
Intel MultiProcessor Specification v1.1
Virtual Wire compatibility mode.
OEM ID: INTELProduct ID: 440GXAPIC at: 0xFEE0
Processor #0 6:8 APIC version 17
Processor #1 6:8 APIC version 17
I/O APIC #2 Version 17 at 0xFEC0.
Enabling APIC mode:  Flat.  Using 1 I/O APICs
Processors: 2

So is the message about apm being disabled lying - it is doing something
as it is enabling my auto power off, and /proc/apm appears showing:
penemunde:/etc# cat /proc/apm
1.16ac 1.2 0x03 0xff 0xff 0xff -1% -1 ?

I have skimmed through the apm source, at it looks to me like it is just
that the message is a listtle misleading and that the power off part
of apm is safe with SMP, and the unsafe bits are disabled.

I think this is right, but thought it worth mentioning as it seems like
something that should be in an Etch FAQ..

Regards,
DigbyT


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Re: migrating to 64 bit...

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 03:44:27PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 04/15/08 12:32, Sam Leon wrote:
> > Could one easily upgrade to an amd64 system just by formating /,
> > reinstalling with the proper arch, and then reinstalling all the apps
> > that were installed and hopefully all the conf files in /home/user will
> > be compatible with the arch change of kde and other apps? (of course I
> > am only talking about if you have /home and a separate partition)
> 
> That's what I'd do...  I'd also cherry pick certain important files
> and directories from /etc, such as those that configure the MTA,
> plus a few from /var/games that keep high scores, nethack bones
> files, etc.

I second that. 

A


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Re: Packages temporarily disappearing from Testing/Lenny

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:27:15PM +0200, Sven Joachim wrote:
> On 2008-04-15 18:43 +0200, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 08:45:47AM +0200, Sven Joachim wrote:
> >> It is true that sid users should generally check out for grave bugs and
> >> security issues of packages they want to install, but the same holds for
> >> testing.  After all, buggy packages will not be removed quickly and an
> >> update will first be available in unstable before it migrates to
> >> testing.
> >
> > is it not true that _security_ patches migrate to testing through a
> > different route than the one to sid? I kind of picture it like this:
> >
> > testing security team "finds" security bug, writes patch and pushes it
> > to testing and (Probably?) passing it back upstream as well. THen
> > upstream incorporates the fix and it works its way into sid through
> > upstream's regular release cycle?
> 
> In general, no.  First, the testing security team also works as security
> team for unstable: if the maintainer does not react in time and uploads
> a fix himself, they usually upload directly to unstable as well.
> 
> Secondly, they only upload to testing-security if the fixed package for
> unstable is not expected to migrate quickly.  You can see¹ that Iceweasel
> has still an unfixed version in testing, while both stable and unstable
> have the latest upstream version.  Apparently it did not build on mips
> and mipsel.
> 
> > I suppose I should shut-up and start reading more about debian
> > security...
> 
> I'd recommend to start with http://testing-security.debian.net/, that
> gives a good overview what this team is about.


thanks.

A



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Re: sidux + a word on Debian

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:02:13PM +0200, Sven Joachim wrote:
> On 2008-04-15 18:35 +0200, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> 
> > excellent description. MY wife, whose box is running mostly-up-to-date
> > sid, is annoyed because every few months some program changes it's
> > icon or some bit of its interface layout... another aspect of
> > "unstable". 
> 
> True.  Probably stable would be better for your wife, although there is
> one problem: after a new stable release, _almost every_ program has
> changed, and often quite drastically.
> 
> Maybe she should just use Windows XP, which has been virtually unchanged
> for seven years.  *duck*

you better duck buddy!

Frankly, my wife is quite practical about this and is very
happy since the switch to debian, if for no other reason than I've
quit saying... "I've got to switch your machine to debian..."

She is actually quite happy with it, but she learned to use computers
at the same time as they (desktop) were developing... so she's used
several versions of windows, dos, mac, maybe even pre-mac apple... for
her it's just another version of the same thing and so long as she can
do what she needs and wants she's happy. I guess she is one of those
folks (like most of us here) who knows how to use *computers* not just
windows...

A


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Re: [OT] How to add fortune output to terminal

[s. keeling]

NN_il_Confusionario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>  On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 02:08:02AM +0200, s. keeling wrote:
> > .bash_profile is for setting up global env vars.  .bashrc is for doing
> > things for interactive ("login") sessions.
> 
>  this is completely different from what I understand by reading man bash
>  (section FILES, and also search for "INVOCATION" in all the man page).

I've been fighting this stuff for so long, I'm convinced the manpage
author never understood it.  zsh seems to get it, but that's another
level of complexity ...

>  A common pratice is to source .bashrc from .bash_profile , but it is not
>  a necessity so each one should check such files in $HOME

Another common practice is to set PS1 in .bash_profile, then call
.bashrc from .bash_profile.  Then, in .bashrc you'll see:

 # Hopefully, /etc/profile didn't do this (also).  If so,
 # .bash_profile should unset PS1 first.
 #
 if [ ! -z "$PS1" ]; then

# interactive shell startup stuff.

 fi

The intent being to not clutter up the environment any more than is
necessary.

Nowadays, this is pretty irrelevant stuff, until something gets
confused and breaks.


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- -http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.htmlPlease, don't Cc: me.


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D-Link DWL-122 Wireless Adapter

[francisco]

Hello

Does somebody knows how to install the DWL-122 Wireless Adapter?
I'm using testing-gnome, and i did:

1. install linux-wlan-ng
2. write  wlancfg-"essid"
3. load up modules # modprobe prism2_usb prism2_doreset=1
4. # wlanctl-ng wlan0 lnxreq_ifstate ifstate=enable
5. # wlanctl-ng wlan0 lnxreq_autojoin ssid=
authtype=opensystem
6. configuration.

But, the adapter doesn't work!

Could someone write the steps to make it work, please.


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Re: JFS

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 07:26:15AM +1000, Alex Samad wrote:
> I remember reading in the list that JFS was a dying FS, because IBM
> wasn't maintaining it full time. And that it might disappear from the
> kernel soon.
> 
> Any one still using it.  I was actually thinking of using it for my /tmp
> directory 

It would be a waste on /tmp since /tmp is cleared on reboot you don't
need to waste time on a fsck.   I just have extra swap and have tmp on a
tmpfs.  /tmp doesn't usually get used much so it may as well reside in
memory.  Combined with an encrypted swap it gives handy encrypted
filesystem for some scratch work.

Doug.


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Re: Packages temporarily disappearing from Testing/Lenny

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 06:41:05PM -0700, David Fox wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >  I've looked thru "man apt.conf", "man apt_preferences" and "man
> >  apt-get", but don't see any way to disable this.
> 
> I use aptitude exclusively, and I've never managed to get it to pull
> in recommended packages. I basically go back in the buffer and cut &
> paste if I want them. Not the best way to do the job, I suppose.

Run aptitude curses interface and choose the options you want.

Doug.


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Re: migrating to 64 bit...

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 12:32:26PM -0500, Sam Leon wrote:
> Could one easily upgrade to an amd64 system just by formating /, 
> reinstalling with the proper arch, and then reinstalling all the apps 
> that were installed and hopefully all the conf files in /home/user will 
> be compatible with the arch change of kde and other apps? (of course I 
> am only talking about if you have /home and a separate partition)

Only formatting / will only work if you don't have a separte /usr or
/var... 

I run amd64 Etch and have an i386 chroot for iceweasel with flash.
Prior to that I had i386 Sarge on a different box.  The configs in /home
worked just fine.  I always migrate /etc by hand when I do a new
install.

Doug.


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Re: Reg Blind

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:48:36AM -0700, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
 
> and one more thought. Could it be possible to write a video driver
> that is essentially a dummy? A blind user does need X to actually draw
> on the screen (unless they're working with a sighted assistant). It
> only needs X to think it's drawing on the screen...

What if their software needs to draw to the screen so that other
software can screen scrape?  Or does the dummy driver contain video
memory (or whatever) that the screen-scraper can read.  New concept for
me.

Doug.


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Re: Question about how "aptitude search" is used

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 07:13:30AM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
>   One of the things I'd like to implement in an upcoming aptitude
> release (probably post-lenny, likely next year) is a significant
> overhaul of the UI to the search engine; that is, how searches are
> entered and carried out from the interface.

It would be nice if there was a help screen in the curses UI that gave
the same info as the search strings section in the html docs, save
opening them up in lynx.

>   In the current CLI, "aptitude search blah" searches for packages
> whose name contains "blah".  In contrast, "apt-cache search blah"
> searches both package names and descriptions.  What I'd really like to
> do is a full-text search with approximate matches on the whole package
> index that returns packages which might be relevant to "blah", with an
> option to sort the results by various relevance metrics.  Of course,
> "aptitude search ?name(blah)" will always be available; this is just
> about changing the default behavior on bare strings.

I've never tried to do both at once before; I'm assuming that you put in
an "OR" operator, however why not just add a global function ~Z or
whatever that would search for the term as a keyword in any field?

> # Problem #
> 
>   The problem that I see is that aptitude's current behavior is
> predictable enough that people might be relying on it in home-grown
> scripts.  Changing the semantics of a command underneath a script is
> impolite at best and will likely break things.

So enhance the script language rather than changing it.

> 
>   The alternative if I decide to maintain backwards-compatibility is
> to write a second command like "aptitude find" or "aptitude grok" or
> what-have-you, or to add some parameters to the "search" command
> (something like "--full-search").  In the first case, I get to answer
> user questions about the difference between "find" and "search" until
> the end of time, while in the second case, I get to answer user
> questions about how to search on more than just package names until the
> end of time.

If its fully documented, and especially if there is an adequate help
screen on search terms built-in, then just tell people to RTM.

>   So, I'd really like to just change the default behavior of "search"
> when it's given a bare string.  If I were designing the program up-front
> this is what I'd do, and I think it's the best end-point.

Well, then I'd change the way I work and people writing scripts whould
have to change them.

> # Question #
> 
>   How many readers of this list are using "aptitude search" as a
> subcommand in a script?  Will you be impacted by this change?  Will
> anyone else be adversely impacted despite not using it in a script?

As long as you add a command to allow a search just on name (unless its
there already a duplicate of no prefix), users like me will get used to
it.  

The only search string I have in a script is my backup script which
generates a list of all installed packages not automatically installed
(i.e. manually installed packages).  Off the top of my head its ~i!~M
but I could be wrong.

I don't suppose while you're re-writing aptiutde you can make it not hit
swap when I start the curses interface on my P-II with 64 MB ram (or
will Lenny and whatever comes next not run on 64MB anyway)?

Doug.


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Re: Firewall froth..

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 03:42:54PM +, Digby Tarvin wrote:
 
> where the list line was to filter out the most frequent messages, but
> I am not really sure what, if any, rejected connections/packets I
> should be looking out for, and what should just be ignored...
> 
> Perhaps I should redirect the firewall logs to a separate file? Or
> just stick my head in the sand and log nothing - which is presumably
> the situation with my dsl router..

I don't have any incoming ports since I don't offer services to the net,
not even ssh.  Therefore, I drop everything coming in and don't log it.
I by default have all ports outgoing closed to and log everything that
shorewall stops.  Then I open the ports I need with selected ACCEPT
macros.  Then the only things that end up in syslog are ones I need to
see.  My logaudit script doesn't filter out shorewall lines so I see
them.  I do have console logging turned off so I don't get interrupted.

Doug.


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Re: fonts for certificates, preferable open source but free will do

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 01:09:00PM -0400, H.S. wrote:
> I am looking for fonts to make a bunch of certificates. I think these 
> are called Calligraphic or Gothic fonts? Any good resource for these?
> 
> So far, I have found Isabella that is something like what I am looking for:
> {tmp}$> apt-cache search calligraphic
> texlive-fonts-extra - TeX Live: Extra fonts
> texlive-latex-extra - TeX Live: LaTeX supplementary packages
> ttf-gfs-solomos - ancient Greek oblique font
> ttf-isabella - The Isabella free TrueType font
> ttf-uralic - Truetype fonts for Cyrillic-based Uralic languages

I do my certificates in xfig which includes the fonts (I think) then
have gsfonts and gsfonts-x11.  I also have the bitstream-vera or some
such.  I've never tried wierd fonts in Latex.

Of course, if its a serious certificate, I get out my nibs and do it by
hand on real parchment or vellum.  Its hard for a laser printer to
duplicate the varying ink density of nib placement and lifts.  

Doug.


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Re: JFS / Unsupported file systems

[Chris Walters]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Alex Samad wrote:
| Hi
|
| I remember reading in the list that JFS was a dying FS, because IBM
| wasn't maintaining it full time. And that it might disappear from the
| kernel soon.
|
| Any one still using it.  I was actually thinking of using it for my /tmp
| directory
|
| Alex

Hi Alex,

I use JFS, and have been quite satisfied with its performance, and reliability.
~ On the subject of dead file systems, if they're going to remove JFS from the
kernel because IBM is no longer supporting it, then they'd better also remove
the reiserfs, as well.  It is also totally unmaintained.  [Google 'reiserfs' or
'hans reiser' - without the quotes, and you'll see why it is unlikely that it
will be supported again - his site is down, as well].

Anyhow, JFS hasn't given me any problems, and at one time I used it for
everything except for my /boot partition.

Regards,
Chris
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Re: JFS

[Alex Samad]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:39:05PM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 07:26:15AM +1000, Alex Samad wrote:
> > I remember reading in the list that JFS was a dying FS, because IBM
> > wasn't maintaining it full time. And that it might disappear from the
> > kernel soon.
> > 
> > Any one still using it.  I was actually thinking of using it for my /tmp
> > directory 
> 
> It would be a waste on /tmp since /tmp is cleared on reboot you don't
> need to waste time on a fsck.   I just have extra swap and have tmp on a
> tmpfs.  /tmp doesn't usually get used much so it may as well reside in
> memory.  Combined with an encrypted swap it gives handy encrypted
> filesystem for some scratch work.
I usually fill up tmp with crap.

but i did follwo up some more on jfs , seems like there is no full time
maintenance on it so, and i had thought I had read that it was meant to
be fast for lots of small files, but I must have miss read that.

I am going to still to ext3, wait till ext4 comes ready and keep using
xfs for my large (video) partitions


> 
> Doug.
> 
> 
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> 
> 

-- 
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region."

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Re: JFS / Unsupported file systems

[Alex Samad]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:49:44PM -0400, Chris Walters wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
>
> Alex Samad wrote:
> | Hi
[snip]
> Hi Alex,
>
> I use JFS, and have been quite satisfied with its performance, and 
> reliability.
> ~ On the subject of dead file systems, if they're going to remove JFS from the
> kernel because IBM is no longer supporting it, then they'd better also remove
> the reiserfs, as well.  It is also totally unmaintained.  [Google 'reiserfs' 
> or
> 'hans reiser' - without the quotes, and you'll see why it is unlikely that it
> will be supported again - his site is down, as well].
>
> Anyhow, JFS hasn't given me any problems, and at one time I used it for
> everything except for my /boot partition.
yes i have read about hans, also read bad things about reiserfs. also
read bad things about xfs but i have a ups sho that should be okay.

most of the followup googling I did on jfs seems to give the impression
that jfs is not that fast a fs on lots of small files.


>
> Regards,
[snip]
>
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>

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finality has finally happened in this presidential race."

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Re: JFS / Unsupported file systems

[Chris Walters]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Alex Samad wrote:
| On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:49:44PM -0400, Chris Walters wrote:
|> Alex Samad wrote:
|> | Hi
| [snip]

|> Anyhow, JFS hasn't given me any problems, and at one time I used it for
|> everything except for my /boot partition.
| yes i have read about hans, also read bad things about reiserfs. also
| read bad things about xfs but i have a ups sho that should be okay.
|
| most of the followup googling I did on jfs seems to give the impression
| that jfs is not that fast a fs on lots of small files.

Hi Alex,

Well, every file system has its good points and its flaws.  Reiser set out to
create the "perfect" file system, and ReiserFS performs admirably on lots of
small files - better than any of the others.  Its main flaw is that version 3
is prone to FS corruption, and version 4 is not complete (you can run it, with
a kernel patch, but it is not everything that it was promised to be).

JFS, in my experience performs equally well with all sizes of files, with the
drawback that, with time, it will slow down (probably due to file system
fragmentation).  I find that doing a full backup, running 'mkfs.jfs' on the
partition, and restoring the data fixes that problem.

XFS.  I've used it and, believe it or not, I found it not really much faster
than the EXT3 file system.  Then there is the problem that it uses extensive
buffering to achieve this "speed boost", which I never saw - basically meaning
that you must have a UPS or you *will* lose data.

EXT3.  Of course we all know the benefits and flaws of this one, and its
predecessor.  I thought I would bring it up because it is the 'tried and true'
file system of Linux based systems.

Regards,
Chris
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Re: JFS

[Owen Townend]

On 16/04/2008, Alex Samad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> I usually fill up tmp with crap.
>
> but i did follwo up some more on jfs , seems like there is no full time
> maintenance on it so, and i had thought I had read that it was meant to
> be fast for lots of small files, but I must have miss read that.


Hey,
  IIRC, JFS is/was more well known for dealing with large files,
similar to XFS.
  You may have been thinking of reiserfs. It is great for
lots of small files as it has a feature is called 'tail packing'[1].
Files under the block size are stored directly in the name tree.
For files larger than this the 'tail' of the file is stored in the tree.
E.g. for a 4KB block size, a 9KB file would use 2 blocks and the
remainder would be stored in the tree.
  This can cause an extra seek when reading a file, but is often
covered by read-ahead and/or ncq when reading more than a
single file. You can mount with `-o notail` to turn it off.

cheers,
Owen.

[1] The wikipedia page has a little info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReiserFS#Design

I am going to still to ext3, wait till ext4 comes ready and keep using
> xfs for my large (video) partitions
>
>
>
> >
> > Doug.
> >
> >
> > --
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> "I understand that the unrest in the Middle East creates unrest throughout
> the region."
>
>
> - George W. Bush
> 03/13/2002
> Washington, DC
>
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> JtlZuIgoPaJJq+wPYlyhBjc=
> =x8Lh
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
>

Re: Source code editor

[Richard Bronosky]

I have to agree completely with this poster.  I started learning VIM 3
years ago when my employer insisted that I use a windows workstation.
I hated it so much that I decided to live in a full screen PuTTY,
SSHed to their Linux and FreeBSD servers.  I decided that what ever
new editor I learned would be the last editor I ever learned.  The
fact that VIM in on every single server I've ever seen was very
attractive.  It took a few months to get my .vimrc setup to where I
liked it and to learn the main functionality.  (I plastered my cubical
in cheat sheets.)  I then discovered that after 25 years of typing
wrong, it was time to learn to touch type.  I took sandpaper to my
keyboard, and after the most frustrated 2 weeks of my life, I was an
expert.

The best thing is that I know all I have to do is scp my .vimrc file
into my home folder on any server and I can edit files there just as
comfortably as I would locally.  The cool thing is that I NEVER use
ftp, scp, or rsync to send files to a dev server that I edited
locally.  I edit them on the server.

Combine remote editing with Gnu Screen, and you have the ability to
start editing a file from you office.  Then open the Screen session
from home or a coworkers machine and see everything exactly as you
left it.  Oh, and you will never again say "dang, I forgot to nohup
that process."

SSH + Gnu Screen + VIM = Happy Productive Programmer

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Mark Clarkson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Tero,
> Vim is great for this but has a steep learning curve. Vim is also tuned for
> touch typists, which eventually pushed me into learning touch typing, which
> is great, especially for night time coding. One really simple and often
> overlooked feature is being able to view source code in two columns, which
> is something I've never seen in graphical IDEs - for this reason I always
> make my code fit into 80 cols and have 4 character tabs. Ctags and Cscope
> are supported natively so jumping to functions/definitions is easy.
> Syntax highlighting is good, it now has a form of 'intellisense' and
> tabs in version 7, plus excellent regular expression search/replace,
> multi-branch undo, keystroke recording (I use alot) and a great diff
> viewer (invoked with vimdiff usually). It also does the things you
> mentioned!
>
> Cheers
> Mark.
>
>
> On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:00:27 +0300, Tero Mäntyvaara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I am looking for shell program for source code edition. I have used
> > nano, but it isn't enough. I need more "real" IDE like functionalities
> > eg constant view of current row number, file browser and selection,
> > cutting, pasting and copying functions. I also tried to use motor, but I
> > got segmentation fault after execution... :-/ I am using Etch.
> >
> >
> > Tero Mäntyvaara
> >
> >
> >
>
>



-- 
.!# RichardBronosky #!.

Forced filesystems check on a HA server

[Rico Secada]

Hi.

What is the best way to avoid a forced file systems check, the one that
runs on about each 30'th boot, on a HA server where there is only SSH
access?

I still need to be able to run the check manually, but I cannot boot
the machine into single user mode. And I also want it to run if the
machine should do an unclean reboot.

What are your experience with this?

Best regards.


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Re: Question about how "aptitude search" is used

[Daniel Burrows]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 12:38:46AM +0900, Osamu Aoki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was 
heard to say:
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 07:13:30AM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> >   Hello list,
> > 
> >   I'd like to get a feel for how people use "aptitude search".
> > 
> > # Background #
> >   
> >   One of the things I'd like to implement in an upcoming aptitude
> > release (probably post-lenny, likely next year) is a significant
> > overhaul of the UI to the search engine; that is, how searches are
> > entered and carried out from the interface.
> > 
> >   In the current CLI, "aptitude search blah" searches for packages
> > whose name contains "blah".  In contrast, "apt-cache search blah"
> > searches both package names and descriptions.  What I'd really like to
> > do is a full-text search with approximate matches on the whole package
> > index that returns packages which might be relevant to "blah", with an
> > option to sort the results by various relevance metrics.  Of course,
> > "aptitude search ?name(blah)" will always be available; this is just
> > about changing the default behavior on bare strings.
> 
> Changing default behavior on bare strings seems minor problem to me.
> 
> I thought thare are 3 simple uses for old search patterns:
>  1. aptitude search blah
>  2. aptitude search ~nblah
>  3. aptitude search ~dblah
> 
> 1 and 2 are the same result now.
>
> If you want to make
> aptitude search blah
> acts as:
> aptitude search "~nblah|~dblah"
> 
> You need to tell in NEWS file that local scripts need to add "~n" before
> serch string to make it act as before under the new version.

  My question was: are there any such local scripts?  It seems possible
to me that someone might have written a script that uses aptitude this
way, but I had trouble coming up with an actual reason I'd do that,
especially since the output from "aptitude search" is notably bad for
scripting.

> "?name(blah)": is this your new syntax?  Yes I see it now in manpage.  
> I do not like this one since "?" is used as metacharacter for regex in
> ERE.  Aptitude is extended ERE as I understand before you aded this.

  It still is.  I picked "?" because it is (a) suggestive of starting a
query word, (b) not ambiguous (all previous queries continue to have the
same meaning), and (c) it has a minimum of syntactic overhead.  Something
like "~?name" is just obnoxious to type, although I could see adding it
as an alternative to see how it works.  As you noted below, there's a
funny corner case when you mix the two styles of writing expressions, but
it doesn't affect backwards compatibility.

> The extension was "~".  When did you add this?  Why did not you chose
> sequence like "~?name(blah)" as long expression.  Then ? is clearly not
> part of ERE expression.  For example, "~ddpkg~ndpkg" is good pattern but 
> "~ddpkg?name(dpkg)" can not be parsed correctly.

  "~ddpkg?name(dpkg)" means what it used to: match the regex
"dpkg?name(dpkg)" against the description field of packages.  Terms
introduced by a tilde character still consume text up to the next
whitespace.  This may be a bit surprising if you're used to the old syntax,
but it's predictable once you get the rule (I note, though, that the
documentation here needs to explicitly mention this).  I feel this is an
acceptable level of annoyance to put up with for backwards-compatibility.

  A more problematic example is "aptitude?installed", which is parsed as
a single regex.  Again, though, just putting a space between the terms
makes everything work.

> > # Problem #
> > 
> >   The problem that I see is that aptitude's current behavior is
> > predictable enough that people might be relying on it in home-grown
> > scripts.  Changing the semantics of a command underneath a script is
> > impolite at best and will likely break things.
> 
> Impolite... maybe if you did not announce.  But if you have that
> announced for lenny, doing so for lenny+1 is fine.
> 
> (Did you do that for new "?" syntax?  Was this hidden feature?)

  I didn't see a need to announce in NEWS, since it was backwards-compatible.
If you can find a case where it's not, that's a bug and needs to be
fixed, but I'm pretty confident from the implementation that it's not.
The new terms are only recognized in contexts where previous versions
would have tried to parse a regex and failed.

  Daniel


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Re: Question about how "aptitude search" is used

[Daniel Burrows]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 07:34:47PM +0200, "Kim N. Lesmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
was heard to say:
> On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:13:30 -0700
> Daniel Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Hi Daniel.
> 
> >   How many readers of this list are using "aptitude search" as a
> > subcommand in a script?  Will you be impacted by this change?  Will
> > anyone else be adversely impacted despite not using it in a script?
> 
> I have always been annoyed with this exact problem, but I don't think
> the solution you think about implementing (doing like apt-cache) is the
> best way to go.

  I'm not quite sure what you mean by "like apt-cache".  I'm thinking of
something a bit more ambitious than just extending the search to
descriptions; e.g., Enrico Zini has done some interesting work in this
area that I'd like to incorporate or emulate.

> From FreeBSD:
> $ make search name=foo
> 
> Aptitude:
> $ aptitude search foo

  This would be like

  $ aptitude search '~nfoo'

  , right?

> Anyway, just a thought.

  Users can already build up arbitrarily [0] complex queries if they know
the aptitude search language.  The question is, what should
"aptitude search blah" do if the user hasn't provided any context about
what sort of a search to do?  I don't think that erroring out is the
right thing to do; I think there should be a "default" search mode.

  The only reason this comes up as an issue is that the old default
happens to have a very precise meaning that could conceivably have been
useful in scripts that ask for, e.g., "linux-image-2\.6\..*" instead of
"~nlinux-image-2\.6\..*".  If the default had been "search names and
descriptions" to start with, I wouldn't be so concerned, because that's
clearly an interactive feature and not useful for scripts.

  Daniel

  [0] for some values of arbitrary; the aptitude search language has not
  grown general, or even primitive, recursion operators, and I don't
  have any reason to expect that it will.  Anything that complicated
  should probably be done in a real programming language (e.g.,
  python with python-apt) anyway.


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Re: Source code editor

[Daniel Burrows]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 06:19:34PM +0300, Tero Mäntyvaara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
was heard to say:
> Eclipse is used in graphical user environment only. I wished to find a  
> shell program.  :-)

  In that case, shouldn't you be using "ed"?  (just kidding!!)

  Daniel


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Re: Forced filesystems check on a HA server

[NN_il_Confusionario]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 07:14:03AM +0200, Rico Secada wrote:
> What is the best way to avoid a forced file systems check, the one that
> runs on about each 30'th boot,

tune2fs

(or corresponding utilities for other filesystems)

> And I also want it to run if the
> machine should do an unclean reboot.

no problem with this. You might also consider
the FSCKFIX setting in /etc/default/rcS
(I cannot say what is the best setting for you)

-- 
Chi usa software non libero avvelena anche te. Digli di smettere.
Informatica=arsenico: minime dosi in rari casi patologici, altrimenti letale.
Informatica=bomba: intelligente solo per gli stupidi che ci credono.


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Re: JFS / Unsupported file systems

[Hose]

On Apr 15, 2008, at 8:49 PM, Chris Walters wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Alex Samad wrote:
| Hi
|
| I remember reading in the list that JFS was a dying FS, because IBM
| wasn't maintaining it full time. And that it might disappear from  
the

| kernel soon.
|
| Any one still using it.  I was actually thinking of using it for  
my /tmp

| directory
|
| Alex

Hi Alex,

I use JFS, and have been quite satisfied with its performance, and  
reliability.
~ On the subject of dead file systems, if they're going to remove  
JFS from the
kernel because IBM is no longer supporting it, then they'd better  
also remove
the reiserfs, as well.  It is also totally unmaintained.  [Google  
'reiserfs' or
'hans reiser' - without the quotes, and you'll see why it is  
unlikely that it

will be supported again - his site is down, as well].

Anyhow, JFS hasn't given me any problems, and at one time I used it  
for

everything except for my /boot partition.

Regards,
Chris


I have to agree - I've been using a combo of reiser and jfs for the  
past 5 years as different parts of production systems, and I find both  
to be fairly reliable, and much less annoying to use than ext{2,3}.   
Unfortunately I'm not sure where to go from here on out for the  
future, as JFS *does* seem to be on a dead-end path, and reiser4 isnt  
even close to being standard (then again, even finding a JFS supported  
live cd can sometimes be a hassle).  I have a severe dislike for ext,  
though I haven't looked much at 4.  Anyone have suggestions?  ZFS  
looks interesting, but I've heard mixed things of it in practice.


hose


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Re: Question about how "aptitude search" is used

[Daniel Burrows]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:20:21PM -0400, "Douglas A. Tutty" <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> was heard to say:
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 07:13:30AM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> >   One of the things I'd like to implement in an upcoming aptitude
> > release (probably post-lenny, likely next year) is a significant
> > overhaul of the UI to the search engine; that is, how searches are
> > entered and carried out from the interface.
> 
> It would be nice if there was a help screen in the curses UI that gave
> the same info as the search strings section in the html docs, save
> opening them up in lynx.

  Yes, that's somewhere in the pile of mental notes I've made about
things to do in the future.  Ideally the help screen would be available
as a pane in the search dialog, so you could reference it while writing
a search...

> >   In the current CLI, "aptitude search blah" searches for packages
> > whose name contains "blah".  In contrast, "apt-cache search blah"
> > searches both package names and descriptions.  What I'd really like to
> > do is a full-text search with approximate matches on the whole package
> > index that returns packages which might be relevant to "blah", with an
> > option to sort the results by various relevance metrics.  Of course,
> > "aptitude search ?name(blah)" will always be available; this is just
> > about changing the default behavior on bare strings.
> 
> I've never tried to do both at once before; I'm assuming that you put in
> an "OR" operator, however why not just add a global function ~Z or
> whatever that would search for the term as a keyword in any field?

  Because I think that the potential impact is relatively small (I
haven't been able to think of any actual use case for "search" in a
script, and I have yet to hear of anyone actually doing this in real
life), while the benefit of having "aptitude search" produce more useful
results is relatively large.

> >   So, I'd really like to just change the default behavior of "search"
> > when it's given a bare string.  If I were designing the program up-front
> > this is what I'd do, and I think it's the best end-point.
> 
> Well, then I'd change the way I work and people writing scripts whould
> have to change them.

  That is sort of the idea; I wanted to get a sense of what the impact
was among a small and self-selected group, rather than just operating
totally without data.

> I don't suppose while you're re-writing aptiutde you can make it not hit
> swap when I start the curses interface on my P-II with 64 MB ram (or
> will Lenny and whatever comes next not run on 64MB anyway)?

  Well, that depends.  I have no objection, in principle, to making the
program faster and more efficient -- as long as this doesn't come at the
expense of code clarity and maintainability in the future.  I also have
fairly limited time to spend on the project, and profiling and
optimization tend to be enormous time-sinks in my experience, so I'm
reluctant to get too involved in them.

  Did aptitude work on this system in past Debian releases?  The only real
memory-hogging change in the program I can think of is the switch to
Unicode a few years ago; I wouldn't think off-hand that aptitude stores
enough wide strings in memory to cause this sort of behavior, but maybe
I'm wrong.  Other than that, the other obvious potential culprits seem
like the increase in the number of packages in the archive and changes in
the toolchain and standard library (not that I know of anything
specifically, but if an STL component started allocating memory more
aggressively, aptitude would be affected).

  Daniel


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Re: Question about how "aptitude search" is used

[Daniel Burrows]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 05:55:58PM +0200, Jochen Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was 
heard to say:
> Daniel Burrows:
> > What I'd really like to do is a full-text search with approximate
> > matches on the whole package index that returns packages which might
> > be relevant to "blah", with an option to sort the results by various
> > relevance metrics.
> 
> I like the full-text search idea, but I dislike the idea of approximate
> matches (without it being a different command or a parameter). It makes
> search results less predictable and hurts cases where your search terms
> yield many results anyway.

  I think that depends on how approximate it is and how the results are
ranked.  Obviously this will take a lot of tuning; my main point is that
I want to implement the most useful string-based search I can, and
that's not going to just search names. :-)

> Another aspect you should consider is speed. Aptitude is already quite
> slow and memory intensive. In my opinion, you should refrain from making
> it even more unsuitable for low-end devices than it already is. It's
> Debian's preferred package manager, after all.

  Well, this won't impact anything other than "search", and it may
actually make things faster (I'll probably use an index on the package
cache, and I may even adjust the search interpreter to support some more
efficient modes of operation...)

  Daniel


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Re: Question about how "aptitude search" is used

[Daniel Burrows]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:58:27AM -0500, "Mumia W.." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was 
heard to say:
> On 04/15/2008 09:13 AM, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> I like the current default behavior for bare strings.

  While I hope this goes without saying, there will probably be a
configuration option to disable this for people who dislike it.  (there,
now when I forget to implement it you can beat me over the head with
this email. :-) )

> I'm not using it in a script yet, but the default behavior of 'aptitude  
> search' always made more sense to me that the default behavior of  
> 'apt-cache search.' I'm almost always looking for package name  
> substrings, and when I do decide to search within descriptions, I'm not  
> usually concerned with searching on the package names.
>
> Anyway, for those few times when I need to search for a substring in  
> both the package name and description, 'apt-cache search' is always  
> available. Aptitude doesn't need to become a replica of apt-get.

  In my opinion, a package manager has two basic functions:

(a) help the user find the packages he/she wants
(b) help the user manage the state of packages on his or her system

  aptitude has always been strong on point (b), IMO, and I've mostly
spent the last few years improving it even more.  But its handling of
the "help me find a package" question is, to put it bluntly, utter and
complete suckage -- unless, that is, you happen to know part of the name
of the package you want to find.

  I hope to improve this significantly in future releases[0], and one of
the things that I want to fix is the behavior of "aptitude search".  This
isn't the only thing, but it will be a natural place to expose some of
the functionality I'm thinking about adding.

  Searching on package names is useful, of course, but you will always
be able to request it directly; what I'm discussing here is just about
what a search for a bare string without any context does.



  This isn't about imitating apt-cache.  This is more about improving an
area of historical weakness for aptitude and hopefully surpassing
apt-cache by a wide margin.

  Daniel

  [0] Note: if I implement it and decide I hate the result, I reserve
  the right to change my mind and abandon the new code. ;-)


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Re: JFS / Unsupported file systems

[Chris Walters]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Hose wrote:
| On Apr 15, 2008, at 8:49 PM, Chris Walters wrote:

|> I use JFS, and have been quite satisfied with its performance, and
|> reliability.
|> ~ On the subject of dead file systems, if they're going to remove JFS
|> from the
|> kernel because IBM is no longer supporting it, then they'd better also
|> remove
|> the reiserfs, as well.  It is also totally unmaintained.  [Google
|> 'reiserfs' or
|> 'hans reiser' - without the quotes, and you'll see why it is unlikely
|> that it
|> will be supported again - his site is down, as well].
|>
|> Anyhow, JFS hasn't given me any problems, and at one time I used it for
|> everything except for my /boot partition.

|
| I have to agree - I've been using a combo of reiser and jfs for the past
| 5 years as different parts of production systems, and I find both to be
| fairly reliable, and much less annoying to use than ext{2,3}.
| Unfortunately I'm not sure where to go from here on out for the future,
| as JFS *does* seem to be on a dead-end path, and reiser4 isnt even close
| to being standard (then again, even finding a JFS supported live cd can
| sometimes be a hassle).  I have a severe dislike for ext, though I
| haven't looked much at 4.  Anyone have suggestions?  ZFS looks
| interesting, but I've heard mixed things of it in practice.
|
| hose

Hello,

Actually, you usually don't need a LiveCD with support for JFS.  You can use a
tool called RIPLinuX (the RIP stands for "Recovery is Possible").  It comes in
the form of a bootable ISO that can be used to do many things.  The latest
version is 4.5 - I have not looked at it yet, but it seemed to support JFS,
XFS, Reiserfs 3/4, the EXT 2/3 file systems, and some others, I think.  The
link is here.

http://www.tux.org/pub/people/kent-robotti/looplinux/rip/

As for ext4dev, I tried it, and I wouldn't bother with it, just yet.  To enable
it, you must have it enabled in your kernel.  Then using the utils is a tricky
proposition - you have to download an older version of e2fsprogs with a patch
and compile the patched version to use any of the utilities on it (e.g. fsck).
It really wasn't all that great, on the performance end, either.  I'd rather
wait until they either stabilize it, or someone picks up Reiser4fs and decides
to work on it.

Regards,
Chris
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Re: Question about how "aptitude search" is used

[Andrei Popescu]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 09:20:21PM -0400, Douglas A. Tutty wrote:
 
> The only search string I have in a script is my backup script which
> generates a list of all installed packages not automatically installed
> (i.e. manually installed packages).  Off the top of my head its ~i!~M
> but I could be wrong.

That's what I do (inspired by Doug).

#!/bin/sh

[...]

aptitude search '~i!~M' > /home/amp/bak/pkg.list

I think it will be trivial to adapt to any changes.

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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Re: Question about how "aptitude search" is used

[Andrei Popescu]

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:32:40PM -0700, Daniel Burrows wrote:
 
> > I like the full-text search idea, but I dislike the idea of approximate
> > matches (without it being a different command or a parameter). It makes
> > search results less predictable and hurts cases where your search terms
> > yield many results anyway.
> 
>   I think that depends on how approximate it is and how the results are
> ranked.  Obviously this will take a lot of tuning; my main point is that
> I want to implement the most useful string-based search I can, and
> that's not going to just search names. :-)

If you are going to output to console I think you will have to reverse 
the sort order, otherwise the most irrelevant match will be last and one 
would have to scroll up to see the more relevant ones. Or you could 
output directly to $PAGER (as 'git log' does).

Another idea that crossed my mind would be to restrict the number of 
results to something like 20 lines and add a note like: "These are the 
most relevant 20 results.  For the full list use --full and pipe to a 
pager"

Regards,
Andrei
-- 
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)


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