Goupil wrote:
>
>
> Goupil wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Goupil wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Lars Bjerregaard wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I saw a link to your survey from LWN, and wanted to reply to it because
>>>> of it's
>>>> friendly and inviting tone. I'm not subscribed to the list (but maybe I
>>>> should
>>>> do that...).
>>>>
>>>> I first touched a set of Linux diskettes around 1995, and have been
>>>> dabbling
>>>> with it on and off since then, with increasing intensity. About 4 years
>>>> ago, I
>>>> took the plunge and became a 100% Linux user on my home desktop, and I
>>>> haven't
>>>> regretted it for a minute. I'm a professional systems developer, and do
>>>> some
>>>> measure of system administration as well. I grew up in the world of DOS
>>>> and
>>>> Windows, and so Unix was not my "entry by birth" into the world of
>>>> computing. By
>>>> now I certainly am addicted to the 'Unix way', although I am forced to
>>>> use
>>>> Windows at my work.
>>>>
>>>> I keep track of all things Linux and FOSS intensively, and find that by
>>>> far the
>>>> most interesting things in computing go on in this huge ecosystem. It
>>>> is also
>>>> close to my heart in terms of philosophy and ethics.
>>>>
>>>> I think during the years I've been trough most of the major
>>>> distributions:
>>>> Redhat, Suse, Gentoo, Ubuntu, Debian, and a few others, and during the
>>>> years of
>>>> experiments and playing around, I have come to know which things about
>>>> a
>>>> distribution that *I* value, and put the highest emphasis on. My last
>>>> full-time
>>>> desktop system was Ubuntu, through a few releases, but I came to
>>>> realise that I
>>>> didn't really want to install a new release every 6 months, and it was
>>>> sometimes
>>>> a bit too unstable for my taste, with too many unfixed bugs.
>>>>
>>>> A year ago, I switched to Debian Etch full time on my desktop. At the
>>>> same time
>>>> I realized I was becoming increasingly disappointed with Gnome, and so
>>>> wanted to
>>>> check out if Linus is right, and switched to KDE. And boy do I agree! I
>>>> love
>>>> KDE, and wouldn't switch for the world now.
>>>>
>>>> What my personal preferences in a desktop system amounts to are:
>>>> - Highly stable
>>>> - Bugs quickly resolved
>>>> - New release about every 2 years
>>>> - Good hardware support
>>>> - A huge array of packages to choose from
>>>> - A rock solid and versatile package manager/system
>>>> - A window manager that doesn't get in my way, or tries to be smarter
>>>> than me,
>>>> but allows me to easily just configure things the way *I* like it.
>>>>
>>>> Those would be the mainpoints. So where I am now after all my travels,
>>>> the Etch
>>>> + KDE combination is what comes closest to fit that bill, and I enjoy
>>>> it
>>>> tremendously. I've become picky over the years, and I really have to
>>>> give big
>>>> kudos to the Debian team, for providing such an excellent system to us.
>>>> Thank you!
>>>>
>>>> Current annoyances with my desktop system are:
>>>> - With the current kernel the boot process freezes hard about every 15
>>>> boots on
>>>> average. The kernel update before that one froze hard the same way,
>>>> roughly
>>>> every 5 boots. The kernels before that did not have a problem. I should
>>>> probably
>>>> overcome my hesitation with the Debian bugzilla, and try and submit a
>>>> good
>>>> bugreport.
>>>>
>>>> - When X starts, there's a wait for 10 seconds, whilst my Dell monitor
>>>> displays
>>>> "Cannot display this resolution", until it finally starts correctly.
>>>> This was a
>>>> problem in Ubuntu as well, and after hours of xorg.conf tinkering I've
>>>> given up,
>>>> and I just live with it.
>>>>
>>>> - The Wine package is (IMHO) completely broken, and I use the one from
>>>> winehq.
>>>>
>>>> - There's an issue with having to get drupal5 from testing. It should
>>>> at least
>>>> be in backports, if at all possible.
>>>>
>>>> - Adept, which would be my preffered package manager on the desktop,
>>>> does not
>>>> work when interactivity is required with the package install ("unable
>>>> to display
>>>> frontend kde"). It displays a curses frontend which simply doesn't work
>>>> on the
>>>> display. I've tried fixing it from various tips to no avail. So I use
>>>> aptitude,
>>>> which is a very fine tool indeed.
>>>>
>>>> - In aptitude, pressing 'C' should display the changelog for the
>>>> package, but
>>>> only does so 1 out of 20 times. Otherwise it's 'unavailable'. Would be
>>>> very nice
>>>> to have it always just work.
>>>>
>>>> - I've set up bridging network (TUN,TAP) to facilitate host nic access
>>>> in
>>>> VirtualBox machines. For some reason it takes the bridge about 10
>>>> seconds during
>>>> the boot process to acquire an IP address. Without the bridge there's
>>>> no problem.
>>>>
>>>> - Getting iceweasel and icedove to have working links and mailto: links
>>>> was
>>>> manuel work. Shouldn't be necessary.
>>>>
>>>> - Working sound required manual tinkering.
>>>>
>>>> - In xorg.conf I had to change 'ati' driver to 'radeon' to get X going
>>>> at first.
>>>>
>>>> But I do have to say that I still love Debian. It takes a bit more
>>>> manual
>>>> tinkering to get everything set up right, as compared to e.g. Ubuntu,
>>>> but once
>>>> it's done, I get much more of that robust feeling, and things just
>>>> work, day in
>>>> and day out, which is what I need from my primary home system.
>>>>
>>>> The packages I use the most are:
>>>> - Iceweasel
>>>> - Icedove
>>>> - Krusader
>>>> - Wine
>>>> - Virtualbox
>>>> - K3b
>>>> - Vlc
>>>> - Kplayer
>>>> - OpenOffice
>>>>
>>>> I do have the popularity-contest package installed, and install it on
>>>> all Debian
>>>> installations which I'm in charge of.
>>>>
>>>> Besides using Debian for my desktop system, I also run it on a couple
>>>> of small
>>>> office servers which I administrate, and of course Debian is the
>>>> perfect server
>>>> OS (but then you knew that). I intend to continue to deploy Debian
>>>> servers
>>>> around the place, and to take the plunge and run it on a VPS, serving
>>>> my mail
>>>> and other things. That will be fun.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, I would love to have a seperate 'server' and 'desktop' cd
>>>> for
>>>> Debian, optimized kernel and package selection for those 2 scenarios. I
>>>> think
>>>> it's something Ubuntu gets right. Other wishes I have for Debian is to
>>>> continue
>>>> to improve the ease-of-configuration on the desktop. Good GUI tools are
>>>> a must,
>>>> and Ubuntu has a slight edge here. No doubt the desktop is by far the
>>>> biggest
>>>> challenge in the OS world.
>>>>
>>>> You are free to do with these comments of mine as you wish.
>>>> Again, thanks for Debian! It's a marvellous OS, with a bright future
>>>> ahead I'm sure.
>>>>
>>>> All the best,
>>>> Lars Bjerregaard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> OK :)
>>> I'm completely agree with you. Nice and clever Post.
>>>
>>> My personal best-of, and my personnal contribution to the community that
>>> i'am proud to present here :) :
>>> (you are sure that if i install a new disk, i install all those
>>> software)
>>>
>>> I take that of my small software data base :
>>>
>>> UTILITY & PLUG-IN :
>>> alien (to convert game in RPM format to DEBian package)
>>> configure-debian (easiest interface than dpkg fot configuring some
>>> package)
>>> console-tools (for small font and on screen time when i exit of Xorg)
>>> subversion (downloading source of a lot of games and other software,
>>> more simple than cvs)
>>> gkrellm (for a continuous display of the state of my system)
>>> gparted et qtparted (i like the two, for formating hard disk or USB key)
>>> gnu-fdisk (the same in curse)
>>> gui-apt-key (for key for new repository)
>>> hwinfo (for info to vesa mode and some other)
>>> ippl (to choose what kind of info i wan't record on /var/log/syslog and
>>> then display with Superkaramba)
>>> Superkaramba (display Syslog, internet radio, a state of my system, a
>>> like Mac OSX launch, a nice clock)
>>> k3b (formating CD and converting some format)
>>> kdirstat (nice plugin for Konqueror for displaying use of disk : right
>>> clic>Open with KDirstat - Directory Statistics)
>>> gdm and gdm-themes (the nicest and greatest interface for starting
>>> window manager)
>>> kdm kde-kdm-themes kdmtheme (i use it in case of broken gdm)
>>> kommando (nice software, finally i don't use it a lot, i use F1 to F12
>>> to lauch my favorite software)
>>> konqueror (the nicest and more powerfull file manager on the world, it's
>>> my point of view :))
>>> krename (for renaming all my photo with the good name and other work
>>> with large number of file)
>>> lha (sometimes for files, i don't use it a lot)
>>> libqt-perl (to use dialog interface with perl script, usefull)
>>> loop-aes-utils (powerfull and fantastic for crypting files or mounting
>>> CD without to format a CD)
>>> manpages-fr manpages-fr-extra (for french man page, "man:" in adress bar
>>> on konqueror :)
>>> pcopy (powerfull to copy a hard disk in one command, for example : pcopy
>>> /dev/sda /dev/sdb)
>>> picwiz (plug-in for konqueror to resize picture or group of picture by a
>>> right clic)
>>> pptview (for easy viewing of some fun stuff on Power Point format send
>>> by friends :)
>>> rdate (for taking the time on internet for my PC's clock : you must open
>>> TCP 3690 port on your firewall)
>>> symlinks (some script use it)
>>> unrar or unrar-free (for file on rar format)
>>> usbmount (automaticaly mounting of usb key or camera)
>>> wine (it works great for me on Debian Sid)
>>> xfe (nice file manager but less powerfull than Konqueror, it's an
>>> alternative)
>>> xnest and xserver-xephyr (for starting easily another connexion)
>>>
>>>
>>> INTERNET
>>> Ktorrent (the greatest for some download)
>>> amule amule-common amule-utils-gui (for some download)
>>> epiphany-browser (nice browser but Iceweasel is great. Alternative)
>>> iceweasel iceweasel-I10n-fr (with there plugin, the nicest and greatest
>>> internet browser on the world :)
>>> icedove icedove-locale-fr (like iceweasel but for mail :)
>>> kget (powerfull for downloading a lot of file, you can stop and restart
>>> the download)
>>> kmess (nice for tchat on MSN but no video i think)
>>> knmap nmap (for security testing of my firewall)
>>> konversation (powerfull and nice for IRC)
>>> kopete (the biggest for MSN because you can tchat with webcam. But i
>>> have had a lot of problem to discuss with webcam with all that kind of
>>> software : a lot of crash. Kopete like other)
>>> amsn (powerfull but some bugs and Tcl/Tk is not the good choice for
>>> interface : not nice. Qt or Gtk would be a better choice)
>>> liferea (the biggest and easiest for news on RSS)
>>> links2 (when Xorg crash, it's the only way to communicate and find info
>>> on internet and you can still use it with a VGA graphic interface : nice
>>> and powerfull)
>>> pidgin (like kopete, a nice software)
>>> wget (powerfull for downloading on curse mode on console)
>>>
>>>
>>> COMPILATION
>>> build-essential (for compilation of a kernel and build package)
>>> g++ gcc cpp (for compilation)
>>> kernel-package fakeroot (easiest way for compiling kernel)
>>>
>>> libgtk2.0-0 libgtk2.0-dev libglib2.0-0 libglib2.0-dev libglade-2.0
>>> libglade2-dev (for : "make gconfig" and configuring my kernel)
>>> qt3-dev-tools libqt3-mt-dev g++ (for : "make xconfig" and configuring my
>>> kernel. Alternative)
>>>
>>> python python-numeric python-opengl python-pygame python-twisted (I love
>>> game writen on python)
>>> tcl8.4 tcl8.4-dev tk8.4 tk8.4-dev (for compiling aMSN)
>>>
>>>
>>> DESK :
>>> evince (for reading PDF. Konqueror can read pdf but evince is nice when
>>> you associate it with PDF file and use it with Iceweasel)
>>> gdeskcal (nice calendar)
>>> gnumeric (nice and powerfull, like Excel on Windows. I prefer it to
>>> OpenOffice because more closer of Excel and reliable).
>>> kpresenter (i don't have the utility but it seems powerfull)
>>> msttcorefonts linux-libertine (for truetype font)
>>> myspell-fr-gut (french dictionnary use by OpenOffice and Icedove)
>>>
>>> openoffice.org-common openoffice.org-core openoffice.org-l10n-fr
>>> openoffice.org-help-fr penoffice.org-kde
>>> openoffice.org-style-andromeda openoffice.org-style-crystal
>>> openoffice.org-writer openoffice.org-calc openoffice.org-draw
>>> openoffice.org-impress
>>> (the greatest alternative for Microsoft suite. I'am very happy with
>>> openoffice.org-writer)
>>>
>>> openclipart-openoffice.org openclipart-png openclipart-svg (free clipart
>>> for all kind of use :)
>>> scribus (i don't use it today but i know it's great)
>>>
>>>
>>> NETWORK
>>> Great great great great (the only word it comes to my mouth :)) :
>>> Exchange files with all of your PC on linux :
>>> nfs-kernel-server (you must install it on the PC which will be the
>>> server)
>>> nfs-common portmap (you must install those on the PC which will be the
>>> client AND on the server)
>>>
>>>
>>> HARDWARE
>>> camorama camstream (my webcam : to see if it works :)
>>> jpilot jpilot-* (my PDA : the easiest software to use it)
>>> kino kino-brightness-contrast-plugin kino-hsv-color-space-plugin (great
>>> for my numerical camera with it's IEEE1394 interface)
>>> kdenlive (like kino to make some process on my personal movie)
>>> mjpegtools dvgrab (powerfull plugin for kino, kdenlive and other)
>>> mesa-utils (for glxgears and glxinfo : for testing if the 3D
>>> acceleration of my graphics card works)
>>> pwc (for my Logitech Quickcam webcam)
>>> sane sane-utils xsane (powerfull for my Epson 3490 photo scanner)
>>> splix (for my Samsung CLP 500 laser color printer)
>>> xserver-xorg-input-wacom wacom-tools libxtst-dev (for my wacom intuos 3
>>> tablet)
>>> xserver-xorg-video-i810 (for one of my PC : a SAMSUNG Q35 with it's
>>> Intel card : all packet must work like it !! A packet to install and you
>>> have 3D accelerated graphic on your PC : Great !)
>>>
>>>
>>> DRAWING
>>> dia-gnome (vectorial drawing : nice)
>>> Inkscape (the nicest and powerfull for vectorial drawing)
>>> xaralx xaralx-svg (another powerfull software for vectorial drawing)
>>> gimp gimp-help-fr (the reference for all type of drawing)
>>> krita (the nicest. Less powerfull than gimp but easiest to use and
>>> powerfull)
>>> gwenview (I use it all the time : a photo viewer and browser)
>>> kipi-plugins (powerfull plugin for gwenview and other)
>>>
>>>
>>> SOUND
>>> audacity (great great great for modifying sound and make fun stuff)
>>> icedax (to convert your musical CD to WAV)
>>> krecord (to record sound)
>>> kwave (to manipulate WAV file)
>>> lame toolame twolame (great codec to manipulate sound)
>>> soundconverter gstreamer0.10-lame (to convert sound on some format :
>>> ogg, wav, flac, mp3)
>>> ripperx (interface for ripping CD. I like it)
>>> rosengarden4 (i don't have the use but i know it's powerfull)
>>> audacious audacious-crossfade audacious-plugins audacious-plugins-extra
>>> audacious-plugins-ugly (a nice and powerfull player)
>>> amarok (nice and powerfull but i don't use it : too big for me)
>>> sox (provide /usr/bin/play for having sound on gdm)
>>>
>>>
>>> VIDEO
>>> ffmpeg libavifile-0.7c2 libdvdcss2 mjpegtools mpeglib toolame twolame
>>> (MUST have codec to read video on my PC)
>>> w32codecs : DO NOT INSTALL (a lot of problem with it for me : shacking
>>> screen, ...)
>>> vlc (the most powerfull video player : a MUST have : when other are
>>> broken, it's the only player which work)
>>> mplayer (powerfull : and it install some other codec, a MUST have)
>>> totem totem-mozilla totem-xine (The first for me ... when it works :)).
>>> A video player. I love it)
>>> xine (very powerfull software to read video, a MUST have)
>>> gxine gxineplugin (front end for Xine : nice, i use it)
>>> kmplayer kmplayer-plugin (front end for Xine : nice, i use it also)
>>> k9copy (i don't use but i know it's powerfull, like DVDShrink on windows
>>> : DVD -> MPEG)
>>> kaffeine kaffeine-mozilla (powerfull but i don't use : too big for me)
>>> kdenlive (see HARDWARE).
>>> kino (see HARDWARE).
>>>
>>>
>>> NICE STUFF
>>> chameleon-cursor-theme comixcursors crystalcursors dmz-cursor-theme
>>> industrial-cursor-theme xcursor-themes (to change the cursor of my
>>> mouse).
>>> gnome-themes-extras (nice fonts for all the OS)
>>> gtk-engines* (nice themes for gnome)
>>> gtk-qt-engine (for having the same look of KDE's software for gnome
>>> software on KDE)
>>> kde-icons* *-icon-theme (for nice icons for my desktop. I love Tangerine
>>> and kde-icons-crystal)
>>> polymer kde-style* kwin-style* (nice windows on KDE. I love serenity,
>>> kwin-style-crystal and kwin-baghira)
>>> oneko (a small cats play on your desktop. on a console type : "oneko
>>> -tofocus -dog &")
>>>
>>> The list is big and you said : he don't use all of those software :))
>>> My point of view : i install all this list because :
>>> all are free, some software are powerfull or usefull for some kind of
>>> use and not for other. I love the choice.
>>> That's all folks :)
>>>
>>> Thanks for your job : i love it !
>>> Bye
>>>
>>
>>
>> Today i think of my mail, read it another time and find it very
>> pretentious.
>> Excuse me for it's sound. "I fall into the net" (I'm not sure of the
>> translation) :
>> Proudness and pretentiousness aren't very distant :(.
>>
>>
>
>
> Some philosophy :)
> World and computer are more and more complicated : the two are associated.
>
> On Linux's world i have beginning with Debian because 5 or 6 years ago (i
> don't remember) it was the only one i know it was free of charge. I had
> trying to install it a lot of time but the problem was to configure my
> SAGEM Fast 800 modem. All those files to configure : by what to begin,
> what to configure and where ? Too complicated ... So : bye bye Debian,
> hello Mandrake :)
>
> 1 or 2 years after : Mandrake globally works but there is a lot of things
> i don't understand. What are those daemon (daemon, devil : it's russian
> for a newbie who come's from Windows world. There is also daemon on
> Windows but i didn't know). And i had an ATI graphic card and i was unable
> to install 3D accelerated graphics on Mandrake, then NO great games : an
> OS without any nice games who works ... too difficult :)).
> So : bye bye Mandrake, we try another thing : it's a question of life or
> death :))
>
> Ok, ok, it's me ... i come again ! I wan't to be free with my PC, i spend
> money for it since ten years and i don't wan't that's him who command me
> (that was my feeling with Windows). Let's trying to work each other with :
> i have more knowledge, perhaps it's possible and i have time (i had the
> chance to have one PC - the oldest - with Mandrake and internet and the
> other one with Debian).
> Test, test and test, install after install. Reading (not writing, there is
> so information that's not necessary) a lot on internet : thanks to all for
> your time and competence !
> And ...... modem works !!!! yes : the first challenge is a successfull :
> the best stimulation to continue.
> And ...... 3D acceleration works : the consecration for all this works.
> It's the second more important things that make me keeping Debian at this
> time.
>
> The rest is more simple, not important and comes naturally days after
> days.
>
> So my own experience give me some idea and some feelings.
> Sorry there is a lot of time i have not installing another Debian's box (i
> have had my count on installing OS and Debian is too reliable :)) and
> certainly a lot of idea i give below is already use. I have seen graphics
> debian installer on magazine and i find it a very good idea, it looks very
> nice and usefull.
>
>
> First of all for me, OS must be simple to install and to use.
> The best example i have found is gdm.
> I use it since the beginning because it's nice. The reason is stupid but
> it's like that :).
> Before some month ago i don't find it very reliable : when i configure it
> on it's own interface sometimes it reset (the only way : configure it with
> gdmsetup on a console on root).
> Today it seems to be reliable and i find it great.
> I think it's an example to continue to follow for Debian and other.
> I explain me :
> there is a nice interface (Gtk ?), simple to use and very clear.
> When you fly your mouse cursor over options : small help but clear.
> Options are classify by theme on different tab : nice, simple, clear.
> And for more hard option you still have /etc/gdm/gdm.conf (the Debian way
> is preserved :).
> Simplenest way is always the best.
> Gdm interface is the way to follow for Debian i think.
>
> For keeping newbie on Debian : help them.
> A working Modem and 3D accelerated graphics is very important for all.
>
> Use the installer to guide newbie for installing most frequent modem and
> on all case, if it's not possible for some modem, an unique adress
> (Debian's site for example :) where to find all information and material
> in an easy way.
> Example of site : a kind of internet page where you have box to choose the
> model of your modem, the country, ... and then it provide the material
> (driver and firmware to copy on /lib/firmware/) and parameter or in all
> case, give you where to find them.
> The example of CUPS is good i think :
> http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi.
>
> Use the same way and presentation for all (important and common) device :
> modem, graphics card (less choice for graphics card that's sure but
> providing same kind of easy help is necessary i think), printer (it's
> already the case) and scanner.
>
> I think if i have had this kind of help, i wouldn't go to see elsewhere
> :).
> Hope this will be usefull for some other.
>
>
Just another thing i wan't to say : configure-debian is a good software
I like it better if you can add some mouse cursor help on the fly and tabs
instead of separate menu and options. Continue, i think you are on the good
way :)
Thanks
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/bits-news-from-the-users-of-Debian--tp16382579p16698274.html
Sent from the Debian User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
