Re: [WTLUG:discuss] App for making invitation cards

2003-12-08 Thread William Henley
Actually, I have had trouble doing this in Windows lately, the only
software solution I know of off the top of my head is Printshop, and I
have not seen that on the shelf for years.

HOWEVER, I have found a way around this with StarOffice, and I am sure
you can do this in OpenOffice as well.

If you want to do quarter fold inventations, do this:


+   inside card +  +
+   upsidedown  +  +
+ text  +  +

+   +  +
+   +   front of   +
+   +  card+



Okay, so my drawing is not to scale. :-)

Just set up a little templemt.

The other option is to just do text in the bottom right hand corner, and
feed the paper through twice, once for the front, once for the inside.
Annoying, but may be easier than trying to figure out how to flip your
text upside down.

If you want to make half fold cards, just do text on bottom of half of
document page. You will have to run the paper through twice as that will
require printing on both sides of the paper. 

You will need to play with your printer to figure out what orientation
you need to load the paper to get the card to print out right.

This is the easierst solution, and saves her from having to learn a new
program. (That is, if she already knows word processing).

William


* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2003.12.06 11:57]:
: I've had my mom running Debian for a couple of years, but she's just 
: doing the minimal stuff of email/web browsing, and is not computer literate.
: 
: Now she wants to create party invitations. Any suggestions as to the 
: best direction to steer her? (Solving some of these issues would really 
: be easier in the Windows world, but I _really_ want to avoid going that 
: route. _Really_!)
: 
: Thanks!
: 
: -- 
: Kent

-- 
Proof techniques #2: Proof by Oddity.
SAMPLE: To prove that horses have an infinite number of legs.
(1) Horses have an even number of legs.
(2) They have two legs in back and fore legs in front.
(3) This makes a total of six legs, which certainly is an odd number of
legs for a horse.
(4) But the only number that is both odd and even is infinity.
(5) Therefore, horses must have an infinite number of legs.

Topics is be covered in future issues include proof by:
Intimidation
Gesticulation (handwaving)
"Try it; it works"
Constipation (I was just sitting there and ...)
Blatant assertion
Changing all the 2's to n's
Mutual consent
Lack of a counterexample, and
"It stands to reason"


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Tom Ballard, MSFT shill (was Re: Debian Server Compromise -- A Fire Drill ??)

2003-12-08 Thread Karsten M. Self
on Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 06:29:30PM -0800, Tom Ballard, former Microsoft employee, 
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 06:19:45PM -0800, Tom Ballard, former
> Microsoft employee, wrote:
> > On Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 05:31:12PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> > > 
> > > IIRC, it was a prior nonproductive thread with "Tom" which pointed out
> > > seeding and metrics as a way of estimating such bug counts.
> > 
> > So how many are there?
> 
> One thing I've noticed is that people tend to act with derision at 
> things which under the surface they feel uncomfortable about.  If not, 
> they ignore it or respond neutrally.

Mr. Ballard:

No, it's not that I'm uncomfortable over the fact, yes, fact, that free
software in general, or the Linux kernel in particular, have both bugs
and security vulnerabilities.

It's your grossly ignorant, yet simultaneously cocksure and self-assured
statements.  Many false, but with a thin thread of truth permeating, as
well as your incessant posts, which are annoying.

If someone tells me "it's a sunny day and the earth is flat", the fact
that they're right that it's a sunny day doesn't make the earth any less
round.  Nor does repeating the statement endlessly.


Your post here is one in point.  I don't expect you to see, acknowledge,
or understand this point, so I'm making it for the masochists following
this thread:

There are bugs in the kernel code.  Estimates of such bug counts can
be made.  And again I pointed out several texts, most from the
bibliography of _Code Complete_, which point out the statistical
basis on which an increasing or decreasing bug count can provide
some level of assurance, of how many such bugs there are.

I don't know what it is that you are _trying_ to prove.  What you've
_succeeded_ in proving is that you're grossly out of your depth, a
source of misinformation, unwilling to acknowledge errors, more
concerned about defending a nonexistant image than either teaching or
learning, and impossible to converse with.  As such, I'm largely doing
what I'd advise others to do:  point out the misinformation in your
posts, and move on, with minimal wasted time.


Peace.

-- 
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 What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!
- Princess Bride


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Re: chaning root prompt PS1 question

2003-12-08 Thread H. S.
Todd Pytel wrote:

I suspect that root's prompt is being set somewhere and being read in
after /etc/profile, overwriting PS1. Perhaps in /root/.bashrc or
/root/.bash_profile?
Yes, /root/.bashrc was it. Thanks a ton.
->HS


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Re: Earthlink and Swen

2003-12-08 Thread Karsten M. Self
on Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 10:56:59PM -0800, Ross Boylan ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 03:08:23PM -0500, Paul Morgan wrote:
> ...
> > I have all services locked down to localhost; my only connections to
> > the outside world are mail, news via nntpcached, web via squid... I run
> > Apache but it too is locked down to localhost.  My mail is run through my
> > ISP's (earthlink's) virus and spam filters before I get it (otherwise I'd
> > be getting like 10 Svens per day). I do see, from time to time, Apache
> > refusing connections attempts which are generally attacks by Windoze worms.
> 
> I had a long talk with earthlink a month or two ago in which they told
> me they were not filtering out swen (and they certainly weren't; I got
> a ton).  Soon after that, I did see some swen-like stuff in their spam
> filter for my account (but I also saw plenty still coming at me).
> 
> What's your basis for saying they are filtering out swen, rather than
> that you're just getting less swen?

Perhaps their recently introduced virus filtering service:

http://www.earthlink.net/myaccount/help/virusblocker/


Synopsis: 

  If activated:
  - Infected legitimate mail is cleaned and delivered.
  - Infected virally distributed mail is blocked and deleted.
  - Legitimate mail which cannot be cleaned is quarantined.

  In emergency mode (mail storm), the system is activated automatically
  but only for the specific mail associated with the storm. 


My beefs:  

  - The system is unaccountable.  There's no reporting built in to
indicate how much mail is being blocked.

  - The system appears to work after SMTP transaction.  This means
that viral mail cannot be denied on delivery.  This is an issue
because:

 - Such delivery errors tip off other sites that they've got a virus
   problem.

 - Any attempted notification after receipt cannot be made without
   a high likelihood of false notification to spoofed addresses (a
   "Joe-job" attack).

  - Mail which cannot be cleaned is quarantined.  I don't need crap mail
sitting on my account.

  - There's no discussion of how "messages that others send you" are
distinguished from viral "breed"ing mail.  Magick?

Nice try, but ultimately deficient.


However, it does exist.


Peace.

-- 
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 What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
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Xterm font debian-user-200011/msg05124.h

2003-12-08 Thread brewhaha
> * From: Jack Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> * Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 13:46:47 +0900
> * Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> _
>   
>I want to make my Xterm font bigger. I tried control + middle mouse
>click but didn't see any option to change the font as the FAQ says. Any
>pointers to appropriate docs would be great
>Thanks!

"man xterm" would be a start, but I realize that it's a long one. 
What you do is "xlsfonts fixed" and pick the biggest one.  On my system,
they're from Sony, and about 24 pixels.

Then you start with "xterm -fn [font_name_pattern]", so that the
pattern matches a narrow group of fonts with the same size and style. I'd
recommend that the group be wide enough to include the bold and italic
variants, but I don't think Xterm takes the hint (I think it actually
overstrikes them).

You're not actually restricted to fixed fonts, so Courier is an
option, but bold doesn't seem to work (it probably will if I use bold
colouring, though). Unfortunately, unicode is too much of a headache for
most fontographers, so there aren't many *iso646* fonts, either.
(It's 12 (and 7!) pixels on my system).


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Re: RAID question

2003-12-08 Thread Alvin Oga

hi ya arne

On Mon, 8 Dec 2003, Arne Goetje wrote:

> > none of the "onboard raid" stuff worked in the past ... as far as i'm
> > concerned
> >
> > if you use hw raid, you're stuck with the sw they give you to
> > maintain/watch yoru raid system ...
> >
> > if you use sw raid, you can do anything you want imaginable
> > within reason to baby sit your raid box
> >
> 
> well, thanks so far to all who replied...
> one more question: it seems that the vendor of the onboard RAID 
> controller supplies a binary kernel module for the RAID function.
> However, this is proprietary stuff. 

yup.. you can use what one outfit gives you and be locked into
their widgets and their [in]abilities to fix serious bugs [fast] or go
opensource

onboard raid stuff does NOT work ... as they claim .. ( "raid" )
and in my definitions .. "hands off raid" 
where each of the drive gets physically disconnected
and i expect it to keep working and resync when
the new replacement is swapped in

one or more drives at a time, depending on your raid config

> There is also a software RAID driver which is open source.

software raid driver  is in the linux kernel itself ..
anything is the vendors (modified) raid widgets ..

> Can I enable HW RAID in the Controller menu and use it on the win2k 
> partition and can I use software RAID in Linux, or will that mess up 
> everything?

i dont think you can mix and match depending on the "os"
since its hardware controlled
- unless you tweek the controller or the bios 
each time you reboot to the other partition

> Or is it better to stick to the binary module?

never use binary anything  
- have the source code available to *-you-*  so that
"somebody" can fix any buggs for you

c ya
alvin 


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Something broke MatLab

2003-12-08 Thread Ken Bloom
Something in the past few days broke MatLab on my sid box. (Perhaps it was
something I dist-upgraded - anybody have any ideas?)

Previously, whatever way I wanted to launch matlab it behaved the same.

Now, if I try to launch MatLab from the Enlightement Menu or from XRun run
from the Enlightenment Menu, or from AcidLaunch (which is started directly
by my .xsession), Matlab displays the splash screen, then starts up as
though it were given the -nodesktop option (as though it can interact with
a user through my ~/.xsession-errors file)

If I launch matlab from an xterm (no matter how that Xterm was launched)
matlab will start up with the full graphical desktop.

Any ideas? (I already tried reinstalling Matlab)

I'm using Matlab 6.0.0.88 (Matlab R12 student) because its copy protection
is less atrocious than Matlab R13.


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Re: debian port for spamassassin ?

2003-12-08 Thread Andreas Janssen
Hello

Ross Tsolakidis (<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:

> Is there a better port for spamassassin because at the moment, stable
> only has version 2.2
> Has anyone else made something later ?

deb http://people.debian.org/~aurel32/BACKPORTS woody-spamassassin main
deb http://www.backports.org/debian woody spamassassin

The first one maybe is still not available because of the hack of the
Debian servers, the second one should work.

best regards
Andreas Janssen

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Re: no way to remove something if the control file is damaged

2003-12-08 Thread Mark Symonds
[...]
> 
> odd, no way to remove something if the control file is damaged.
> Perhaps try wget .../sysadmin-guide_0.7-2_all.deb
> and variations of
> dpkg -i sysadmin-guide_0.7-2_all.deb
> which other readers of this list might mention...
> 

I managed to work this one out, not sure exactly 
but essentially did a 'locate sysadmin-guide', rm'g 
anything associated with the package.  Then a 
'dpkg --purge --force-all sysadmin-guide', and all 
was joyful. 

Thanks much, 

-- 
Mark


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Site packages

2003-12-08 Thread Gaëtan CAPOU
hi,

i wait until 2 weeks the open of your site for install my server.
When did you open your site  http://packages.debian.org.
Please ssay me where is possible to download this files :
http://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/kernel-headers-2.4.18-bf2.4.html
Thank you very much.

Mr CAPOU Gaëtan.
Paris.
France
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Re: sudo su gives root without prompting for a password

2003-12-08 Thread Benedict Verheyen
> "Benedict Verheyen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> The entries with NOPASSWD are because of a backup script.  So why
>> don't i need to type a password for running "sudo su".  It just
>> doesn't feel right the way it's now.
>
> I don't really know, but why not simplify your sudoers and just run your
> backup script with 'sudo script', instead of repeatedly calling sudo in
> it.

The backup script now runs from cron so that is not a problem anymore.
I still wonder why i'm not prompted for a password though.

Benedict


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Re: kaudiocreator problems

2003-12-08 Thread jerry garcia
On Tuesday 02 December 2003 06:32 am, Florian Ernst wrote:
> Hello Jerry!
>
> On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 01:43:35PM +0100, jerry garcia wrote:
> >I've just migrated from red hat 9 to debian sarge/sid, and am unable to
> > get kaudiocreator to function.  the error messeges are;
> >
> ><
> >Could not start process Unable to create io-slave:
> >klauncher said: Unknown protocol 'audiocd'.
> >
> >
> >
> >I get this for each track I've selected to rip.
> >
> >any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting?
>
> Please read
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-kde/2003/debian-kde-200303/msg00660.html
> and following and see if it helps.

Thank you very much!  I have been all through debian's documentiation, and 
missed this.  Now Kaudiocreator works.  Next for me is to get Lame back and 
installed.  Man!  this is the single most important thing for my music 
server, and now I'm just about there! 


> Please also don't simply reply to an old thread when starting a new
> topic, for now your mail has been added to a thread which some
> people might have chosen to ignore. Always start a new thread by
> starting a new mail, not by replying.

Is this your default sig?  I did start a new thread, I thought,  hence the 
thread name kaudiocreator problems, or since I first hit reply to get a 
window up, even though I changed both the To and Subject, did it still link 
to whatever thread I replied to originally?  

> Cheers,
> Flo

thanks.
jaz


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Re: mousepad kernel 2.6.0-test9

2003-12-08 Thread Paul William
Run the following commands as root:

modprobe mousedev
modprobe psmouse

If you added the lines
mousedev
psmouse
to /etc/modules then the respective modules will be loaded at boot time.


On Sun, 2003-12-07 at 21:21, panda wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I installed the 2.6.0-test9-1-i386 kernel on my laptop
> HP ZE 5170 
> Pentium 4 
> 512 MB ram
> 15 inch screen
> ATI Radeon mobility graphics card 32 MB
> Trident sound card
> 
> The problem is that the mousepad stops working along with the sound
> card.
> 
> I cheched lsmod. It shows mousedev but it is not used.
> I tried rmmod mousedev and then insmod mousedev but no effect.
> 
> kudzu doesn't detect any new hardware either.
> 
> I have a working 2.4.18-bf24 kernel which didn't need to be prodded for
> the mouse configuration.
> 
> Can I do anything other than compiling the kernel. Should I be trying
> something else?
> Thanks a lot for all ur help.
> 
> Panda
-- 

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: :'  :Debian admin and user
`. `'`
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Re: kaudiocreator problems

2003-12-08 Thread Florian Ernst
Hello Jerry!

On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 01:30:29AM +0100, jerry garcia wrote:
On Tuesday 02 December 2003 06:32 am, Florian Ernst wrote:
Please also don't simply reply to an old thread when starting a new
topic, for now your mail has been added to a thread which some
people might have chosen to ignore. Always start a new thread by
starting a new mail, not by replying.
Is this your default sig? I did start a new thread, I thought, hence the
No, I wrote it specifically responding to your mail ;)

thread name kaudiocreator problems, or since I first hit reply to get a
window up, even though I changed both the To and Subject, did it still link
to whatever thread I replied to originally?
Yes, it was still linked, at least here.

You are using kmail, try to go to your original mail and select menu
"View" -> Header -> All Headers and look out for those two headers:
|In-reply-to: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> \
|<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Many programs rely on these headers to build the threading, so when
starting a new topic always better start off with a new mail and no
reply.
The Debian mail archive was able to get it right, though:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2003/debian-user-200312/threads.html#00130
but I still think it's better to get it right on the sender's side
than to let the ~1900 recievers handle it...
Cheers,
Flo


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S-ATA med Debian

2003-12-08 Thread Bjorn Johansson

Funkar S-ATA diskar med Debian woody?


Björn Johansson


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Re: S-ATA med Debian

2003-12-08 Thread Dave Howorth
Bjorn Johansson wrote:
Funkar S-ATA diskar med Debian woody?
Not with the standard kernel. I'd suggest getting a copy of Knoppix, 
which hopefully will work, and then use the settings it deduces to 
figure out what you need to change in Woody.

Please use English on the list!

Cheers, Dave

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menufont in psi

2003-12-08 Thread Christoph Simon
Somebody could tell me how to change the font in menu and dialogs of a
KDE program? I do not use anything of KDE beside psi, which got a hindu
looking font after the last update of my debian sid. Where could I
change that? Outside psi, everything looks normal.

Thanks,

-- 
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Earthlink and Swen

2003-12-08 Thread Kevin Mark
On Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 11:55:57PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> on Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 10:56:59PM -0800, Ross Boylan ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Perhaps their recently introduced virus filtering service:
> 
> http://www.earthlink.net/myaccount/help/virusblocker/
> -- 
> Karsten M. Self <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
>  What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
> Reject EU Software Patents! http://swpat.ffii.org/

Hi KMS,
Funny, I am a subscriber to this ISP and I didn't notice any email
announcements (but then I ususally just delete the isp mail site unseen). 
I'm sure
this recent additions was because I (and i'm sure others) were really
pissed at them during the swen 'flash flood' and sent quite a few
emails. I guess this is as 'responsive' as they get. Now if they only
get of their duff and get encrypted pop or the like!!! This would
decrease my spam further!

-Kev


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mouse

2003-12-08 Thread Dr Gavin Seddon

-- 
Dr Gavin Seddon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
University of Manchester

Hi,

I have Debian up-and-running, the mouse won,t work though.  I have
linked /dev/psaux and /dev/mouse this did not solve my prob.  Pls help?

Gavin


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Kaudiocreator problems. II

2003-12-08 Thread jerry garcia
>>>snip
Many programs rely on these headers to build the threading, so when
starting a new topic always better start off with a new mail and no
reply.
The Debian mail archive was able to get it right, though:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2003/debian-user-200312/threads.html#00130
but I still think it's better to get it right on the sender's side
than to let the ~1900 recievers handle it...
<<<>>

Thanks.  I will make sure to new post in the future. (as this post should be)

I just subscribed to kde-debian as well, as most of my questions are probably 
going to be based on kde.

Does anyone have any ideas why kaudiocreator isn't saving my wav files even 
though I've set it up under  ->settings->kaudiocreator->save wav file ?
or,  does anyone have a recommendation for a different single program to rip 
the cd to hard drive, encode it to mp3 with lame and keep both the wav and 
mp3 with no  manual constructing of the recepient folders required?  
Kaudiocreator  even sets up the respective wave and mp3 folders based on 
freedb information for each album, what a time saver!

thanks.

jaz


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Re: Tom Ballard, MSFT shill (was Re: Debian Server Compromise -- A Fire Drill ??)

2003-12-08 Thread Tom
On Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 11:25:33PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> Peace.

What the fuck are you ranting about?


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Re: Is resolv.conf essential? - SOLVED (AGAIN!)

2003-12-08 Thread Anthony Campbell
On 05 Dec 2003, Anthony Campbell wrote:

[snip] 
> 
> I think I've finally found the problem here. I need to have
> /etc/resolv.conf with just one line:
> 
>   nameserver 127.0.0.1
> 
> With this in place everything seems to work as it should. But I don't
> think I've seen it documented anywhere (though it probably is).
> 

Sorry: this was premature; it stopped working shortly afterwards.
However, after further research and comparison with a different
computer on which things were working, I found that I had an older
version of /etc/ppp/ip-up.d/0dns-up. For some reason this didn't seem to
have been upgraded, even after doing apt-get reinstall. I therefore
copied the later version into place and this (I think!) has made things
work as they should.

AC

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Re: Tom Ballard, MSFT shill (was Re: Debian Server Compromise -- A Fire Drill ??)

2003-12-08 Thread Tom
On Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 11:25:33PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
["MSFT Shill"]

That's not what I'm trying to accomplish.  I was trying to point out 
that you had to invalidate everybody's password last week.

I was trying to point out that (gasp) a philosophy which accuses half 
the world of being ignorant and evil *might* not be the most enlightened 
in all of history.

But I guess you wouldn't be able to understand that.

Transferrence: It's much easier to attack me than to  accept the 
horrible proposition that  you're just a human, everything you hate 
is human, and you're the same.


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Re: Tom Ballard, MSFT shill (was Re: Debian Server Compromise -- A Fire Drill ??)

2003-12-08 Thread Tom
Please don't use my real name: I've told you why I don't want it used.
Would you prefer I used a "handle" ?


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Re: start program at login

2003-12-08 Thread Oliver Elphick
On Mon, 2003-12-08 at 00:15, John L. Fjellstad wrote:
> I have a program I want to start when I login in X.  I know KDE has
> something that starts programs at login, but I was looking for something
> windowmanager agnostic.  Are there any way?
> 
> (Right know I have it in bashrc, but then I have to start a terminal each
> time after login)

It should go in ~/.xsession or ~/.xinitrc (depending on how X is
started).  Generally those files are linked.

-- 
Oliver Elphick[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Isle of Wight, UK http://www.lfix.co.uk/oliver
GPG: 1024D/3E1D0C1C: CA12 09E0 E8D5 8870 5839  932A 614D 4C34 3E1D 0C1C
 
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  sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am 
  holy."  Leviticus 11:44 


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Movies in console

2003-12-08 Thread Ralph Bacolod
Hi! Is it possible to watch a movie in the console . Do i need the
framebuffer for this?

rafiks

__
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New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
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Re: Movies in console

2003-12-08 Thread Rabin Vincent
Hi,

* Ralph Bacolod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003-12-08 13:19]:
> Hi! Is it possible to watch a movie in the console . Do i need the
> framebuffer for this?

To play videos with out going to X (with mplayer) you'll need to use the
framebuffer or the SVGA lib as output.

Using: 
mplayer -vo fbdev file.mpg

or:
mplayer -vo svga file.mpg

should work from the console. 

mplayer -vo help

gives a list of the available video output drivers.

I'm not sure about other media players.

Rabin

-- 
Rabin Vincent
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RE: Moving programs into KDE menu

2003-12-08 Thread Tim Gunning
(not sure what version of KDE you're running but I think its the same for 2
and 3)

if you goto the main KDE menu, then system, there should be an app called
application finder, this will add apps to your menu system. In 2 it does it
(sort of) automatically and in 3 it lets you select which ones you want to
add.


hth

tim 


> -Original Message-
> From: Hoyt Bailey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: 08 December 2003 02:50
> To: debian-user
> Subject: Moving programs into KDE menu
> 
> 
> Can someone advise me on how to move a working program into 
> the KDE menu.  I have gimp installed, configured and working 
> but cant figure out how to put it into the menu system. Hoyt
> 
> 
> 
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WLAN-Karte mit externer Antenne (Empfehlung)

2003-12-08 Thread norbi
Hallo zusammen,

ich suche nach eine WLAN-Karte mit externem Antennen Anschluß für mein
Notebook (Fujitsu-Siemens E2010). Anschlußmöglichkeiten sind PCMCIA und
USB. 

Am liebst wäre mit eine Karte mit größt möglicher Kompatibilität mit den
existierenden Standarts. Welche Karten würdet ihr da Empfehlen. 

Gruß

   Norbi


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Re: Earthlink and Swen

2003-12-08 Thread Karsten M. Self
on Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 05:40:16AM -0500, Kevin Mark ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 11:55:57PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> > on Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 10:56:59PM -0800, Ross Boylan ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > Perhaps their recently introduced virus filtering service:
> > 
> > http://www.earthlink.net/myaccount/help/virusblocker/


> Hi KMS,
> Funny, I am a subscriber to this ISP and I didn't notice any email
> announcements (but then I ususally just delete the isp mail site unseen). 
> I'm sure
> this recent additions was because I (and i'm sure others) were really
> pissed at them during the swen 'flash flood' and sent quite a few
> emails. I guess this is as 'responsive' as they get. Now if they only
> get of their duff and get encrypted pop or the like!!! This would
> decrease my spam further!

Protocol APOP is supported.  Not that this is mentioned anywhere that
I'm aware.  I just learned of this a few weeks ago.

I'm not sure how encrypted POP would help you with regard to spam
though


Peace.

-- 
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 What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
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Re: Tom Ballard, MSFT shill (was Re: Debian Server Compromise -- A Fire Drill ??)

2003-12-08 Thread Karsten M. Self
on Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 03:48:19AM -0800, Tom Ballard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Please don't use my real name: I've told you why I don't want it used.
> Would you prefer I used a "handle" ?

Interesting what truths people are uncomfortable with.


Peace.

-- 
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 What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
   Unless you are very rich and very eccentric, you will not enjoy the
   luxury of having a computer in your own home.
 -- Ed Yourdon, _Techniques of Program Structure and Design_, 1975


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Re: WLAN-Karte mit externer Antenne (Empfehlung)

2003-12-08 Thread Michael Dominok
On Mon, 2003-12-08 at 12:42, norbi wrote:
> Hallo zusammen,
Tach auch
> ich suche nach eine WLAN-Karte mit externem Antennen Anschluß für mein
> Notebook (Fujitsu-Siemens E2010). Anschlußmöglichkeiten sind PCMCIA und
> USB. 
> 
> Am liebst wäre mit eine Karte mit größt möglicher Kompatibilität mit den
> existierenden Standarts. Welche Karten würdet ihr da Empfehlen. 
Karte kann ich Dir keine Empfehlen aber dazu raten auf einer 
englischsprachigen Liste auch auf englisch zu posten. 8-P

Michael

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Email disclaimers (was Re: debian rebooting randomly)

2003-12-08 Thread Karsten M. Self
on Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 10:45:18AM +1100, Ross Tsolakidis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> A recently built box, running stable, all the latest security patches
> aswell.
> Almost on a daily basis, I find that it has rebooted, nothing in the
> syslog.
> Running kernel 2.4.18-686-smp
> 
> I'm pretty sure that there is a powersaving feature in the BIOS,
> unfortunately the box is located at a remote location.
> 
> Is there a way to find out whats causing this ?
> Can I disable PowerSaving in the kernel, is it even enabled ?  :)
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> --
> Ross.
> 
> DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be
> privileged and confidential, and are intended only for the use of the
> intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or
> responsible for delivering this e-mail to the intended recipient, any
> use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail and
> any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> e-mail in error, please REPLY TO the SENDER to advise the error AND
> then DELETE the e-mail from your system.  Any views expressed in this
> e-mail and any files transmitted with it are those of the individual
> sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the
> views of our organisation.  Our organisation does not represent or
> warrant that the attached files are free from computer viruses or
> other defects. The user assumes all responsibility for any loss or
> damage resulting directly or indirectly from the use of the attached
> files. In any event, the liability to our organisation is limited to
> either the resupply of the attached files or the cost of having the
> attached files resupplied.
> 
> 
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The original version of this document may be found at
http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/

   Stupid Email Disclaimers

   It  has  become fashionable, particularly in the UK, for management in
   various   organizations   to   insist   on   various  disclaimers  and
   confidentiality  notices  be  appended to all out-going email address.
   I've seen loads of them over the years, but have only now (2001-01-22)
   started collecting them, so the collection does start very small.

   A typical example is from [1]Luton Sixth Form College, lutonsfc.ac.uk:

 This  e-mail  is  intended  for  the  addressee  shown. It contains
 information that is confidential and protected from disclosure. Any
 review,  dissemination  or use of this transmission or its contents
 by  persons or unauthorized employees of the intended organisations
 is strictly prohibited.

 The  contents  of this email do not necessarily represent the views
 or policies of Luton Sixth Form College, its employees or students.

   I  have  recently  had  my  attention  drawn to the phrase "persons or
   unauthorized  employees"  in  the  above  disclaimer.  Beyond  drawing
   attention to it, it requires no comment.

   Anyway,  if  the  PHB's  at  Luton 6th Form College (or any other site
   whose  stupid disclaimers I list here) think that their disclaimer (or
   anything else) makes it unlawful for me to quote the disclaimers here,
   they know [2]where to find me.

Table of Contents

1. [3]Why these are stupid
2. [4]What are you left with?
3. [5]Don't just do something, stand there!
4. [6]The list [Last modified: Wednesday, 02-May-2001 14:33:52 PDT]
5. [7]Adding to this list and making suggestions
6. [8]Fun  disclaimers [Last modified: Thursday, 26-Apr-2001 12:36:19
   PDT]
7. [9]Problems  of  appending  disclaimers [Last modified: Wednesday,
   02-May-2001 21:06:54 PDT]
8. [10]If you must
9. [11]Other resources

Why these are stupid

   Why are these stupid? Let me count the ways.

  Legal status

   There  are typically to parts of these disclaimers. One part says that
   the  message doesn't necessarily represent official policy. If that is
   worded  carefully, it might be sensible. It is the other part of these
   things (confidentiality, unintended recipient, etc) that is the really
   silly  bit of these. I simply don't believe that those statements have
   any legal force whatsoever.

   Imagine the following disclaimer at the end of an email message:

 Notice: Unless you are named "Arnold P. Fasnock", you may read only
 the  "odd  numbered  words"  (every  other  word beginning with the
 first)  of  the  message above. If you have violated that, then you
 hereby  owe  the sender 10 GBP for each even numbered word you have
 read.

   Such  a  statement  should  have  no force of law. The sender can't in
   general unilaterally stipulate conditions on what the recipient may or
   may  not do with the email. (In specific cases, such as copyright, the
   author  may

Re: Tom Ballard, MSFT shill (was Re: Debian Server Compromise -- A Fire Drill ??)

2003-12-08 Thread Tom
On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 04:54:26AM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> on Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 03:48:19AM -0800, Tom Ballard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > Please don't use my real name: I've told you why I don't want it used.
> > Would you prefer I used a "handle" ?
> 
> Interesting what truths people are uncomfortable with.

I had $7000 zapped out of my checking account in 2000; mostly domain 
names purchased at Verisign: the names were like stupidnation.com, 
burninggrave.com, insane-canibalism.com, &c.

The Mountain View police tracked it down to somewhere in Britain.  I 
still haven't gotten my money back.

So, let's just say I have case evidence that something smells in 
Denmark.  I don't trust people.

I could pay $35 to 1-800-US-SEARCH and really fuck up your day!


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Urgent apt-problem

2003-12-08 Thread Guilherme Viebig
I´m trying to remove, install, upgrade...(-f || !-f) whatever...
plptools-kde package,

but it returns the same error with dirname command

I´m stuck

Can someone help me with this issue?


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Re: start program at login

2003-12-08 Thread Haines Brown
> On Mon, 2003-12-08 at 00:15, John L. Fjellstad wrote:
> > I have a program I want to start when I login in X. 
> 
> It should go in ~/.xsession or ~/.xinitrc (depending on how X is
> started).  Generally those files are linked.

Oliver,

Do you know how to get a particular app to start up on a particular
virtual console? That's where I ran into trouble.

Haines Brown


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Razor servers overloades (spamassian newbie)

2003-12-08 Thread stan
I'm just setting yup spamassain. I added the recomended macros to my
muttrc, and I've been duntifly trying to reprt the spams to the Razor
servers (yes I registerd).

Abour 50% of the time, my reports seem to time out (run with the -D option)
to check why they are failing). If a given report times out, it is qued for
the next transaction with the servers? Is this timeout normal?

-- 
"They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin


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Re: Moving programs into KDE menu

2003-12-08 Thread Hoyt Bailey

- Original Message - 
From: "Terry Hancock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "debian-user" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 22:42
Subject: Re: Moving programs into KDE menu


> On Sunday 07 December 2003 08:20 pm, Hoyt Bailey wrote:
> > Can someone advise me on how to move a working program into the KDE
menu.  I
> > have gimp installed, configured and working but cant figure out how to
put
> > it into the menu system.
>
> If you mean the system-wide way to do it, I don't know.  But if you
> just mean for yourself, right click on a blank spot on the "panel" and
> select "menu editor".  It should be self-explanatory from there.
>
> Oddly, most packages seem to automatically appear in the menu
> when I install them under KDE (I had to run update-menus for that
> to work with fvwm). I'm not sure what happens when you run update-menus
> with KDE (maybe nothing?).
>
> Cheers,
> Terry
>
> --
> Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com )
> Anansi Spaceworks  http://www.anansispaceworks.com
>
FYI system wide is me.  I did the menu editor and that got it into the main
KDE menu but I selected applications so I need to move it from the main menu
to submenu applications.  How do you do that?
Hoyt



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Re: mouse

2003-12-08 Thread Andreas Janssen
Hello

Dr Gavin Seddon (<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:

> I have Debian up-and-running, the mouse won,t work though.  I have
> linked /dev/psaux and /dev/mouse this did not solve my 
> prob.  Pls help?

Please write your message above the signature, otherwise many people's
email or news programs will cut away the whole message when replying.

First, please tell us whether you want to use the mouse in XFree, at the
console (via gmp) or both. Next, /dev/psaux should not be a symlink to
somewhere else. If your mouse is connected via PS/2, it must be a real
device node with major 10 and minor 1. If you replaced your /dev/psaux
with a symlink, delete it and recreate the device file with mknod. You
can of course symlink /dev/mouse to /dev/psaux, however you can also
tell gmp and XFree the real device file as well.

If you want to use your PS/2 mouse in XFree, edit the X configuration
file (/etc/X11/XF86Config-4, or, if that file doesn't exist, maybe
/etc/X11/XF86Config). My InputDevice section looks like this:

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier  "Configured Mouse"
Driver  "mouse"
Option  "CorePointer"
Option  "Device""/dev/gpmdata"
Option  "Protocol"  "ImPS/2"
Option  "Emulate3Buttons"   "true"
Option  "ZAxisMapping"  "4 5"
EndSection

You can also use dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 to reconfigure X.

If you don't want to use gpm for console mouse support, replace
/dev/gpmdate with /dev/psaux. Otherwise configure gpm properly.

If you have further questions, please tell us what kind of mouse you
use, how it is connected to your computer, and how the InputDevice part
or your XFree config file looks like.

best regards
Andreas Janssen

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Registered Linux User #267976


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Re: compiled and installed new kernel, but dkpg does not find it

2003-12-08 Thread Bill Goudie
On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 05:25:12PM -0500, H. S. wrote:
> But I can get a list when I grep the output of dpkg -l:
> /usr/src# dpkg -l | grep nvidia
> ii  nvidia-glx 1.0.4496-2.1   NVIDIA binary XFree86 4.x driver
> ii  nvidia-kernel- 1.0.4496-2+10. NVIDIA binary kernel module for Linux 
> 2.4.22
> ii  nvidia-kernel- 1.0.4496-3 NVIDIA binary kernel module common files
> ii  nvidia-kernel- 1.0.4496-2.1   NVIDIA binary kernel module source
> 
> and here I cannot see the full names of the packages :(

$ COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l

-- 
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-- Raymond Chandler


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Re: debian rebooting randomly

2003-12-08 Thread Arnt Karlsen
On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 22:15:15 -0700, 
"Monique Y. Herman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 at 02:09 GMT, Ross Tsolakidis penned:
> > Yep, the machine is located at a datacentre, which has full UPS
> > protection.
> > 
> 
> Perhaps the custodian at the data center is unplugging the UPS to
> plug in a vacuum cleaner?
 
..she kids you not, these things _does_ happen.  ;-)

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.



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Re: Install ALSA on new Unstable install for GNOME 2?

2003-12-08 Thread Kent West
Doug MacFarlane wrote:

Team:

I inherited a newish box with an Intel Desktop Board D845GLAD2 motherboard.

 



But I never did anything about audio.  There's a little speaker in the
upper-right hand corner of the gnome desktop with a line through it . . .
the intel.com web-site says that the D845GVAD2 has AC 97 audio with the
SigmaTel STAC 9750/66 codec. Googling has produced no meaningful matches,
and www.alsa-project.org doesn't list support for anything beyond the i820
chipset.
So what should I do about Audio?  I assume I install ALSA, with support
for some audio hardware interface, add myself to the audio group, log out
and back in, and then gnome magically has audio support?
 

You don't say what kernel you're using. I'm no audio expert, but I 
_believe_ you'll need a newish (2.4.18+?) kernel for the 845.. audio 
chipset support.

What does "lspci" report?

Whatever chipset is reported by lspci, you'll need to figure out which 
module you'll need for that chipset, probably the i820 module. You'll 
need support for that module in your kernel. Then just "modconf" and 
select that module, then right-click (I think) on the volume icon and 
unmute it. (You'll also have to add your user(s) to the audio group 
(adduser doug audio - and logout/login).)

--
Kent


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Re: Site packages

2003-12-08 Thread Rob Weir
On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 09:50:59AM +0100, Ga?tan CAPOU said
> hi,
> 
> i wait until 2 weeks the open of your site for install my server.
> When did you open your site  http://packages.debian.org.

Yes, it was taken down due to the compromise of several Debian machines.
http://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/.

> Please ssay me where is possible to download this files :
> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/kernel-headers-2.4.18-bf2.4.html

pool/main/k/kernel-image-2.4.18-i386bf/kernel-headers-2.4.18-bf2.4_2.4.18-6_i386.deb
on your local Debian mirror.

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Re: woody cd's 6+7

2003-12-08 Thread Rob Weir
On Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 04:53:18PM -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom said
> Hi List!
> 
> I found descriptions of Woody CD's 1-5 in the acompanying docs.
> But not what is in 6+7. (No doubt not looking right ;-) )
> What is in them?

Each of the seven CDs just contains .debs, ie packages.  6 and 7 contain
the most rarely used ones.

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Re: uhoh - bind on unstable

2003-12-08 Thread Rob Weir
On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 12:48:47PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman said
> I just updated some stuff on my unstable box, including bind, which is
> now at 1:8.4.3-1
> 
> I see this:
> 
> home:/etc/init.d# invoke-rc.d bind start
> Starting domain name service: namedld.so: Incorrectly built binary which
> accesses errno or h_errno directly.
> ld.so: See /usr/share/doc/libc6/FAQ.gz.

What does the BTS say?  http://bugs.debian.org/bind.  If no one else has
reported it, you should.

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Re: general apt problem

2003-12-08 Thread Rob Weir
On Fri, Dec 05, 2003 at 06:06:39PM -0500, Matt Peter said
> Hello All,
> 
> I run into apt problems on a semi-regular basis, running unstable, 

It's important to distinguish "apt problems" from problems with
dependencies.

> which is fine most of the time, but from time to time I get package
> permissions problems, usually where one dependent package is trying to
> overwrite the contents of another package's contents.  

This is a bug in one of the packages, file it if no one else has.  apt
has no support for dealing with this problem, as you've found.

> So, I've been over the debian docs, but I'm looking for a general
> strategy for solving dependency issues when they arise, 

Dependency problems are also package bugs, file them.  It's not
generally possible to resolve problems like this by shuffling packages
around, you usually need to just let things get removed or put them on
hold.  You could also rebuild them without the broken dependency.

> so I don't have to keep messing with my system until it /just works/
> again.

Don't use Sid or at least don't upgrade when you have important work to
do :-)

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Re: start program at login

2003-12-08 Thread Chris Everts
On Mon, 2003-12-08 at 01:15, John L. Fjellstad wrote:
> I have a program I want to start when I login in X.  I know KDE has
> something that starts programs at login, but I was looking for something
> windowmanager agnostic.  Are there any way?

I sometimes use the session for that. Open the app you want to start at
login, save session. Next time WindowMaker you login to wm that app will
start too. You can use "attributes | icon&initial workspace" to sent it
to any workspace you want to.

good luck,
Chris
> 
> (Right know I have it in bashrc, but then I have to start a terminal each
> time after login)
> 
> -- 
> John L. Fjellstad
> web: http://www.fjellstad.org/  Quis custodiet ipsos custodes
> 


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Re: Tom Ballard, MSFT shill (was Re: Debian Server Compromise -- A Fire Drill ??)

2003-12-08 Thread Karsten M. Self
on Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 05:07:20AM -0800, Tom ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 04:54:26AM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> > on Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 03:48:19AM -0800, Tom Ballard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > > Please don't use my real name: I've told you why I don't want it used.
> > > Would you prefer I used a "handle" ?
> > 
> > Interesting what truths people are uncomfortable with.
> 
> I had $7000 zapped out of my checking account in 2000; mostly domain 
> names purchased at Verisign: the names were like stupidnation.com, 
> burninggrave.com, insane-canibalism.com, &c.
> 
> The Mountain View police tracked it down to somewhere in Britain.  I 
> still haven't gotten my money back.
> 
> So, let's just say I have case evidence that something smells in 
> Denmark.  I don't trust people.
> 
> I could pay $35 to 1-800-US-SEARCH and really fuck up your day!

AccurInt is cheaper at $0.25, subscription required.

http://www.accurint.com/

Or, like your telemarketing buddy, the "service bureaus":  Experian,
EquiFax, and Trans-Union:

http://www.equifax.com/
http://www.experian.com/
http://www.tuc.com/

One of my personal faves was Goldshield-Inc, who've apparently been run
off the Net, if not out of business.

[Politech] How does Goldshield find credit card, phone call info on
you? [priv]
http://www.politechbot.com/pipermail/politech/2003-September/24.html


And if you're complaining about googleability, put yourself in my shoes.
Or name.


Peace.

-- 
Karsten M. Self <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
 What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
   A guide to GNU/Linux partitioning:
 http://kmself.home.netcom.com/Linux/FAQs/partition.html


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Re: Urgent apt-problem

2003-12-08 Thread Karsten M. Self
on Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 11:12:22AM -0200, Guilherme Viebig ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> I?m trying to remove, install, upgrade...(-f || !-f) whatever...
> plptools-kde package,
> 
> but it returns the same error with dirname command
> 
> I?m stuck
> 
> Can someone help me with this issue?

You can.  Read this:

Simon Tatham, "How to Report Bugs Effectively":
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html


"How To Ask Questions The Smart Way" by Eric S. Raymond and
Rick Moen 
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html


Please note that you are the person in the best position to know what
you're trying to do, what you've done, how the system's responded, and
generally how it's configured.  It's very helpful if you can post:

  - *Exact* commands or steps tried.
  - *Exact* error output or log messages.

Often, entering the error messages into a good search engine such as
AlltheWeb (http://www.alltheweb.com/) or Google (http://www.google.com/)
will help set you on the road to resolving your problems.

While others can offer suggestions, guidance, and experience, we cannot
see into either your mind or your machine's state.  This is very much a
case of "you have to help us help you".



Peace.

-- 
Karsten M. Self <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
 What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
Bush/Cheny '04:  BU__SH__!


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Re: Tom Ballard, MSFT shill (was Re: Debian Server Compromise -- A Fire Drill ??)

2003-12-08 Thread Greg Folkert
On Mon, 2003-12-08 at 02:25, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> Mr. Ballard:
> 
> No, it's not that I'm uncomfortable over the fact, yes, fact, that free
> software in general, or the Linux kernel in particular, have both bugs
> and security vulnerabilities.
> 
> It's your grossly ignorant, yet simultaneously cocksure and self-assured
> statements.  Many false, but with a thin thread of truth permeating, as
> well as your incessant posts, which are annoying.
> 
> If someone tells me "it's a sunny day and the earth is flat", the fact
> that they're right that it's a sunny day doesn't make the earth any less
> round.  Nor does repeating the statement endlessly.
> 
> 
> Your post here is one in point.  I don't expect you to see, acknowledge,
> or understand this point, so I'm making it for the masochists following
> this thread:
> 
> There are bugs in the kernel code.  Estimates of such bug counts can
> be made.  And again I pointed out several texts, most from the
> bibliography of _Code Complete_, which point out the statistical
> basis on which an increasing or decreasing bug count can provide
> some level of assurance, of how many such bugs there are.
> 
> I don't know what it is that you are _trying_ to prove.  What you've
> _succeeded_ in proving is that you're grossly out of your depth, a
> source of misinformation, unwilling to acknowledge errors, more
> concerned about defending a nonexistant image than either teaching or
> learning, and impossible to converse with.  As such, I'm largely doing
> what I'd advise others to do:  point out the misinformation in your
> posts, and move on, with minimal wasted time.

Like, Oh my GAWD... like gag me with a source-fork... gnarly.

You know... you really... like, were succinct there... Totally.

-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
REMEMBER ED CURRY! http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry


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Re: could not eject CDROM as a normal user: [solved]

2003-12-08 Thread Karsten M. Self
on Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 04:06:11AM -0500, H. S. ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> 
> Earlier, I couldn't eject my CDROM as a normal user by using the "eject" 
> command. I could mount it though. I could but eject the CDROM as root. I 
> used to get:
> $> eject /cdrom
> eject: unable to open `/dev/cdrom'
> 
> 
> The problem was the group owner ship of my cdrom(it is linked to 
> /dev/hdc in my case):
> 
> earlier:
> usr/src# ls -l /dev/hdc
> brw-rw1 root disk  22,   0 Mar 14  2002 /dev/hdc
> 
> Then, (thanks to:
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2000/debian-user-200012/msg04202.html 
> where it is suggested *NEVER* to make a normal user a member of the 
> 'disk' group), I changed it to:
> /usr/src# chown root:cdrom /dev/hdc
> /usr/src# ls -l /dev/hdc
> brw-rw1 root cdrom 22,   0 Mar 14  2002 /dev/hdc
> 
> And I am already a member of 'cdrom' group. Now I can use the eject the 
> command as a normal user to open/close the CD tray.
> 
> HTH somebody, since I don't recall getting a satisfactory answer when I 
> asked this earlier a few weeks ago.
> regards,

Yes, this is the correct fix.

The reason not to make a normal user a member of the disk group is that
this generally gives read *and* write access to the raw disk device
itself.  This is a really good way to utterly destroy your data.

'cdrom' by contrast is generally read-only.  Far less harm possible.


Peace.

-- 
Karsten M. Self <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
 What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
   A guide to GNU/Linux backups:
 http://kmself.home.netcom.com/Linux/FAQs/backups.html


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Re: WLAN-Karte mit externer Antenne (Empfehlung)

2003-12-08 Thread Arnt Karlsen
On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 13:59:30 +0100, 
Michael Dominok <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> On Mon, 2003-12-08 at 12:42, norbi wrote:
> > Hallo zusammen,
> Tach auch
> > ich suche nach eine WLAN-Karte mit externem Antennen Anschluß für
> > mein Notebook (Fujitsu-Siemens E2010). Anschlußmöglichkeiten sind
> > PCMCIA und USB. 

..wifi/802.11?  Try get an orinico or an orinico clone by Buffalo.

> > Am liebst wäre mit eine Karte mit größt möglicher Kompatibilität mit
> > den existierenden Standarts. Welche Karten würdet ihr da Empfehlen. 
> Karte kann ich Dir keine Empfehlen aber dazu raten auf einer 
> englischsprachigen Liste auch auf englisch zu posten. 8-P

..or in german, post to the debian-user-german list.  ;-)

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.



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Re: Moving programs into KDE menu

2003-12-08 Thread Hoyt Bailey

- Original Message - 
From: "Tim Gunning" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Hoyt Bailey'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "debian-user"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 06:27
Subject: RE: Moving programs into KDE menu


> (not sure what version of KDE you're running but I think its the same for
2
> and 3)
>
> if you goto the main KDE menu, then system, there should be an app called
> application finder, this will add apps to your menu system. In 2 it does
it
> (sort of) automatically and in 3 it lets you select which ones you want to
> add.
>
>
> hth
>
> tim
>
Thanks Tim that sounds like it will do the job.
Hoyt



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Local mails are not delivered

2003-12-08 Thread Uwe Pross
Hi there,

After a while I got sarge sucessfully running. Everything
seems to work except that local mails to users do not reach the
users mail folder /var/spool/mail/ nor /var/mail/. 
Mails to root where stored in /var/spool/mail/root. 

Mails to local users are placed in the outgoing mail queue. It
seems as if the mail agent does not know that mails to local
users should be stored in the local mail folders.

I have tried serveral mail programs like mutt or pine and even
commandline calls like

echo "test" | mail username

do not work.

Has anyone an idea where to look at to solve this problem? 

Thanks in advance.

Cheers, Uwe
-- 
  ,_,   For a personal reply please put "News-reply"
 (O,O)  in the subject-field of your mail.
 (   )  Otherwise I won't receive your mail.
=-"-"-= http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/~uwp


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Re: Moving programs into KDE menu

2003-12-08 Thread Jonathan Dowland
On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 05:48:09AM -0600, Hoyt Bailey wrote:
> FYI system wide is me.  I did the menu editor and that got it into the main
> KDE menu but I selected applications so I need to move it from the main menu
> to submenu applications.  How do you do that?
> Hoyt

The following will put gimp in the debian menu system:

$ mkdir  ~/.menu
$ cat > ~/.menu/gimp
?package(gimp):command="/usr/bin/gimp"  \ 
   icon="/usr/share/pixmaps/wilber.xpm" \
   needs="X11"  \
   section="Apps/Graphics"  \ 
   title="The GIMP" \ 
   hints="Bitmap"   
^D
$ update-menus -v
$ (possibly restart your window manager)

You will then need to run update-menus whenever you want the debian menu
updated. (or put it in /usr/lib/menu instead of ~/.menu)

The menu entry taken from the gimp debian package.

-- 
Jon Dowland
http://jon.dowland.name/


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Abailability of the Distributed Checksum Clearinghouse client as a .db?

2003-12-08 Thread stan
I'm setting up spamassaian, and I'd like to use the Distributed Checksum
Clearinghouse from http://www.rhyolite.com/anti-spam/dcc/. I can't seem to
find this as a Debian package. Am I missing something, or should I just
grab the source?

-- 
"They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin


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Spamassain question, whitelist?

2003-12-08 Thread stan
I'm setting up Spamassain, and I can't seem to find out how to create a
whitelist for it.

I will be retrieving my mail using fetchmail, then pasing it to procmail,
which will call somassain. If it matters my MUA of choice is mutt.

-- 
"They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin


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Re: menufont in psi

2003-12-08 Thread John M Flinchbaugh
On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 09:12:28AM -0200, Christoph Simon wrote:
> Somebody could tell me how to change the font in menu and dialogs of a
> KDE program? I do not use anything of KDE beside psi, which got a 
hindu
> looking font after the last update of my debian sid. Where could I
> change that? Outside psi, everything looks normal.

i used to have a menu in gnome which listed the kde menus in
addition to gnome apps.  i can't find it at the moment, but i
recall finding the kde deskop config app in there which allowed
me to fix the fonts.  if you're missing it as well now, you may
want to browse the base kde packages and see if you can find it
to install.
-- 
}John Flinchbaugh{__
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.hjsoft.com/~glynis/ |
~~Powered by Linux: Reboots are for hardware upgrades only~~


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Re: Spamassain question, whitelist?

2003-12-08 Thread Karsten M. Self
on Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 10:12:05AM -0500, stan ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> I'm setting up Spamassain, and I can't seem to find out how to create a
> whitelist for it.

If you enable auto-whitelisting, you don't have to do anything.

Otherwise, man spamassassin will give you what you're looking for.


Peace.

-- 
Karsten M. Self <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
 What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
  Backgrounder on the Caldera/SCO vs. IBM and Linux dispute.
  http://sco.iwethey.org/


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Re: Unidentified subject!

2003-12-08 Thread Ken Gilmour
Replying to the message sent by David Meiser  on Fri, 05 Dec 2003
16:33:14 -0600, received at 15:29:55 on 08/12/2003. David Meiser wrote:
>Anyone?  Any ideas?  What is this?

its damn funny that's what it is!



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debian-installer beta: booting from grub?

2003-12-08 Thread lloyd
i installed from the debian-installer beta to a spare partition on my 
grub-based system.  i installed lilo on this parition as well.

in grub.conf i added the following stanza:

  title debian-installer test
root (hd0,5)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.4.22-1-386
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.4.22-1-386
when selecting this option on boot, i get the following boot messages:

 modprobe: couldn't locate module sysfs
 Journalled Block Device driver loaded
 LVM version 1.0.5+(22/07/2002) module loaded
 mount: /dev2/root2 is not a valid block device
 mount: /dev2/root2 is not a valid block device
 mount: /dev2/root2 is not a valid block device
 mount: /dev2/root2 is not a valid block device
 mount: /dev2/root2 is not a valid block device
 mount: you must specify the filesystem type
 pivot_root: no such file or directory
 /sbin/init: 217: cannot open /dev/console: no such file
 Kernel Panic: Attempted to kill init!
...then it locks.

any ideas?

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Re: Tom Ballard, MSFT shill (was Re: Debian Server Compromise -- A Fire Drill ??)

2003-12-08 Thread Paul Morgan
On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 23:25:33 -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:

> 
> There are bugs in the kernel code.  Estimates of such bug counts can
> be made.  And again I pointed out several texts, most from the
> bibliography of _Code Complete_, which point out the statistical
> basis on which an increasing or decreasing bug count can provide
> some level of assurance, of how many such bugs there are.
> 

Just a small diversion to lighten this up a bit:

- Any program can be shortened by one line of code
- Any program contains at least one undiscovered bug

Therefore, any program can be reduced to one line of code which doesn't
work.

I have often found this of comfort in a long programming career.

-- 
paul

"Don't be so humble.  You're not that great."
(Golda Meir)



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Re: [OT] voting (was: Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications))

2003-12-08 Thread Paul Morgan
On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 04:05:36 +, ben_foley wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 11:23:31AM -0800, Tom wrote:

> david attenborough is one of the few honest humans on the planet. anyone
> who tries to tell you that he's full of shit is missing the point of
> being here, to begin with. the elegance of his explanation for why he
> doesn't believe in god is worth all the trouble it takes to find it. i
> haven't seen the show with the octupii but if he was involved, it must
> have been good.
> 
> ben

David Attenborough is an interesting and thoughtful man.

Having said that, when I see a watch, it convinces me of the existence of
the watchmaker (Voltaire?).  There are many watches in the universe, but
the one, for me, most obviously the product of design is the encoding,
decoding and replication of DNA.  An elegant solution to the combined
problems of reproduction and adaptability to a changing environment, with
opportunities for experimentation thrown in.  I know the work of a
brilliant engineer when I see it.

This is, of course, simply a personal view.

-- 
paul

"Don't be so humble.  You're not that great."
(Golda Meir)



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Re: Spamassain question, whitelist?

2003-12-08 Thread stan
On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 07:19:18AM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> on Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 10:12:05AM -0500, stan ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > I'm setting up Spamassain, and I can't seem to find out how to create a
> > whitelist for it.
> 
> If you enable auto-whitelisting, you don't have to do anything.
> 
> Otherwise, man spamassassin will give you what you're looking for.
> 

Thanks, so I should just add the -a flag to where procmail invokes it, like
this:

:0fw: spamassassin.lock
* < 256000
| spamassassin -a

Correct?

-- 
"They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin


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Re: start program at login

2003-12-08 Thread Wayne Topa
John L. Fjellstad([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
> I have a program I want to start when I login in X.  I know KDE has
> something that starts programs at login, but I was looking for something
> windowmanager agnostic.  Are there any way?
> 
> (Right know I have it in bashrc, but then I have to start a terminal each
> time after login)
> 

Have you tried adding it to your .xinitrc?

ie

.xinitrc
[--snip--]

xsetroot -cursor_name gumby &
pppload -geometry +4+649 &
#wmppp &
eximon &
tkseti &

exec sawfish

[--end .xinitrc--]

:-) HTH, YMMV, HAND :-)


-- 
"There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their home."
  -- Ken Olson, President of DEC, World Future Society Convention, 1977
___


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Re: [OT] voting

2003-12-08 Thread John Hasler
Paul Morgan writes:
> Having said that, when I see a watch, it convinces me of the existence of
> the watchmaker

And when you view the watchmaker as a watch do you see an infinite
regression of watchmakers?
-- 
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin


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Re: Kernel 2.6.0-testX show stoppers

2003-12-08 Thread Harshwardhan Nagaonkar
And thus we see that Roberto Sanchez said, :
I am having some problems getting 2.6.0-test11 working on my 2 Sid


I am also receiving the following errors on boot when my scripts
set up the parameters on my HDD and CD/DVD:
hda: dma_intr: status=0x58 { DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest }

hda: status error: status=0x58 { DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest }

hda: drive not ready for command
hda: status error: status=0x58 { DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest }
hda: drive not ready for command
hda: status error: status=0x58 { DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest }
hda: DMA disabled
hda: drive not ready for command
hda: set_drive_speed_status: status=0x58 { DriveReady SeekComplete 
DataRequest }

Hi Roberto,
There is an option called IDEDISK_MULTI_MODE which describes the problem 
that you are having (well except that it describes status=0x51; but hey, 
it somethings just work). I found it while inspecting the config for the 
kernel when I installed it on a test box. Hmm, so far 2.6-test11 is 
working good. Well here is the way to get to that option if you do "make 
xconfig" (the QT graphical config):

Go in the tree to
Device Drivers
   --> ATA/ATAPI/MFM/RLL Support
   --> Enhanced IDE/MFM/RLL disk/cdrom/tape/floppy support
--> Include IDE/ATA-2 DISK support
 --> []'Use multi-mode by default'
And make sure that the option is "y" or is ticked (you need to compile 
its parents into the kernel and not as modules to be able to acheive 
this. If you don't, then your IDE drive wouldn't work anyway! :) [I 
didn't need this option for my drive; but I looked at it anyway. Hey I 
guess it saved some of your time.]

And as a word to anyone else having an IDE disk; make *SURE* to compile 
the IDE stuff and your filesystem *directly* into the kerenel (e.g. ext3 
driver) or it will not boot at all. I had to compile the kernel twice 
before I realized this!! :) I wonder why I never had to bother with 2.4.x .

Good luck,
--
Harshwardhan Nagaonkar
Electrical Engineering Sysop
Brigham Young University, UT-84602
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Re: Wvdial and mysterious /dev/ttyS0 permission change

2003-12-08 Thread csj
On 7. December 2003 at 10:52PM +0100,
Andreas Janssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> csj (<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> 
> > On 7. December 2003 at 1:32PM -0500,
> > Roberto Sanchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> >> Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> >>> I hardly think it necessary to install the Mega-size KDE
> >>> libs to use kppp, but what is the reason pon/poff won't do?
> >>> Although admittedly that is no solution to your problem ;-)
> >>> 
> >> I used to have this exact same problem on my machine (except
> >> with /dev/ttyLT0, since it is a Lucent winmodem).  But I don't
> >> know that there is a solution.  Especially since I think that
> >> kppp would need to be suid root (not a good idea) to get past
> >> this problem.
> > 
> > I've always wondered why it should require root-level access (or
> > its equivalent in the case of kppp) to set even the "safer"
> > config options in ppp and friends, e.g. the dialup number and
> > login password.  Couldn't there be a ppp group so that even
> > Friend X, sharing the dorm computer, could log-in to the ISP of
> > his choice without waking up the admin?
> 
> You can of course use predefined connections with pon/poff if
> you are in the dip group, and you can create your own ones for
> use with kppp /without/ kppp being suid root, if you are in the
> dialout group.

It's the "predefined" part that's the problem.  Let's say I'm on
vacation and my friend borrows my computer.  He reads about a
promo from Dirt-Cheap-ISP and decides to subscribe.  How is he
going to enter his login details, without going root, to connect
to Dirt-Cheap-ISP?  It seems his only choice is kppp, which needs
to be suid root to make it user configurable.


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Re: Spamassain question, whitelist?

2003-12-08 Thread Mark Schouten
On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 10:12:05AM -0500, stan wrote:
> I'm setting up Spamassain, and I can't seem to find out how to create a
> whitelist for it.
> 
> I will be retrieving my mail using fetchmail, then pasing it to procmail,
> which will call somassain. If it matters my MUA of choice is mutt.

http://au2.spamassassin.org/doc/Mail_SpamAssassin_Conf.html
WHITELIST AND BLACKLIST OPTIONS

Have fun.

Mark


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Newbie! Some help needed.

2003-12-08 Thread David Baron
I installed from a Knoppix CD image. Rather painless and it found most of
the hardware as well. Now to get the thing productive :-)

1. How does one set up the network to work with ADSL (using a 10/100
connected to an ADSL modem)? (Most everything I have seen is for Red Hat.)

2. How does one set the bootup or logon script so that the Windows
partitions will be mounted when I log on?

3. When I did the installation, I had more Windows partitions than I do now.
KDE will show an extra instance of the last volume (as unmounted if this
option is enabled). How do I get rid of references to the now defunct
volume.

4. Now the really hard and maybe impossible stuff--I have a Yamaha sw60xg
MIDI sound generator card. This is an ISA card that simply sits on a port.
No IRQ, no DMA. Can this thing be set up?

5. More, maybe impossible stuff--I have a DMan2044 audio card, 4 in/ 4 out.
This is a PCI card and the "sound card setup" detects an AGOPO chip. This
card not listed with Debian or with Lindows and Alsa has a vague reference
to another chip (that may be) on this card. Can anything be done with this,
a least for simple listening?

(I am keeping the Windows 98 because I am stuck with it for my sound
production. Everything else, I would like to go over to Linux. Sick of
Windows!)


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Re: menufont in psi

2003-12-08 Thread Christoph Simon
On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:14:52 -0500
John M Flinchbaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 09:12:28AM -0200, Christoph Simon wrote:
> > Somebody could tell me how to change the font in menu and dialogs
> > of a KDE program? I do not use anything of KDE beside psi, which
> > got a hindu looking font after the last update of my debian
> > sid. Where could I change that? Outside psi, everything looks
> > normal.
> 
> i used to have a menu in gnome which listed the kde menus in
> addition to gnome apps.  i can't find it at the moment, but i
> recall finding the kde deskop config app in there which allowed
> me to fix the fonts.  if you're missing it as well now, you may
> want to browse the base kde packages and see if you can find it
> to install.

Thanks for your reply. I don't have it either, or at least, I can't
find it anywhere. What exactly do I have to look for to get the kde
desktop config app? Please note, that I do not want a full KDE
installation, Psi is the only KDE program I use, and I really do
prefer to use gaim or gabber before installing KDE.

Tks,

-- 
Christoph Simon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Local mails are not delivered

2003-12-08 Thread Mark Schouten
On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 01:51:12PM +, Uwe Pross wrote:

>SNIP<

> Has anyone an idea where to look at to solve this problem? 

Which mailserver are you using?

Try emailing your config here, (without all the comments) and try
checking 'local_domains' (if you're using exim).

Mark


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Re: Buggy Kernel How-To?

2003-12-08 Thread David Z Maze
Wolfgang Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> So, in short, what I found by googling about for some time: The correct
> way seems to be to put the kernel-source in my (non-root) home
> directory, and then 
> cd /usr/src/
> ln -s /home//kernel-sources linux
>
> and then, as non-root, compile the kernel in 
> /usr/src/linux/
>
> (And then forget about some of the stuff I read in the Kernel-HowTo
> ?)

I'd certainly believe that the Kernel-HOWTO isn't the best source of
information for compiling kernels on Debian.  "Unpack, build, and
install everything as root" will *work* on every Linux out there, even
if it's unsafe.  I'd look at the kernel-building documentation on
http://newbiedoc.sourceforge.net/ (specific to Debian).

None of my machines have a /usr/src/linux.  I don't miss it.  On my
laptop I build kernels in /home/dmaze/src/kernel/kernel-source-$KVERS;
my home desktop machine builds kernels for both itself and my firewall
machine in /usr/local/src.  Real root privileges are only involved in
building the kernel when I install the kernel-image packages using
dpkg and the subsequent reboot.  :-)

> The background to all this is that I tried to get the kernel sources as
> non-root while being in  /usr/src/ with rsync:
> Which, IIRC, isn't possible. A non-root doesn't have the permission to
> download stuff to this dir, right? 

Add yourself to the 'src' group to get write access to /usr/src; the
'staff' group for /usr/local/src.

-- 
David Maze [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://people.debian.org/~dmaze/
"Theoretical politics is interesting.  Politicking should be illegal."
-- Abra Mitchell


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Re: Wvdial and mysterious /dev/ttyS0 permission change

2003-12-08 Thread Alexander Fitterling
Am Sonntag, 7. Dezember 2003 22:33 schrieb csj:

> I've always wondered why it should require root-level access (or
> its equivalent in the case of kppp) to set even the "safer"
> config options in ppp and friends, e.g. the dialup number and
> login password.  Couldn't there be a ppp group so that even
> Friend X, sharing the dorm computer, could log-in to the ISP of
> his choice without waking up the admin?

As Andreas Janssen still added, that is not a problem. But I'd like to 
complete. As root perform a ...

adduser [user] dip 
adduser [user] dialout 

... which should give the specified user access permission to dialout and use 
ppp. As you can see:

-rwsr-xr--1 root dip230604 2001-12-10 12:35 /usr/sbin/pppd
 crw-r-1 root dialout4,  64 2002-01-07 14:12 /dev/ttyS0

In my case if you as user would dial out and ppp dies, the mysterious 
permission change of ttyS0 occurs. Not as I use kppp which works great. 
I think it is a wvdial problem which has nothing to do with Debian itself.

PS this Debian concept with separate group permissions is very efficient and I 
think gives more transparency as you would install programms as suid bit and 
must run as root. Also chmod 666 to devices as done by different 
distritbutions seems wired to me.



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Re: Newbie! Some help needed.

2003-12-08 Thread H. S.
David Baron wrote:
I installed from a Knoppix CD image. Rather painless and it found most of
the hardware as well. Now to get the thing productive :-)
1. How does one set up the network to work with ADSL (using a 10/100
connected to an ADSL modem)? (Most everything I have seen is for Red Hat.)


I am not sure what you mean here, you have a router and you are 
connecting to that router? You have a Debian box as a router and an 
internal LAN behind it? In my case, I have my Debian box working as a 
router. I changed from Redhat recently; well i have a triple boot system 
(Win2K, Fedora and Debian) now.  As long as my two NICs in the computer 
were recognized okay (or their respective modules loaded) in Debian, my 
firewall script that handles IP forwarding and NAT worked perfectly -- 
it was the script I had been using in Fedora.

In either case, it will be helpful if you went through the masquarading 
how-to in Linux using iptables.
http://www.linux.se/doc/HOWTO/mini/Home-Network-mini-HOWTO-3.html
http://www.lesbell.com.au/Home.nsf/0/7220a8796ab50bbbca256cd400045e0b?OpenDocument
http://www.spotswood-computer.net/present/iptables2.html
www.haifux.org/lectures/70/ipmasq-lecture.pdf

2. How does one set the bootup or logon script so that the Windows
partitions will be mounted when I log on?


Not in the logon scripts, change the /etc/fstab file. See:
http://www.thekore.co.uk/tutorials/html/partitionmnt.shtml
http://www.kv.minsk.by/summer/debian2-tuneup.html
http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/doc/debian/ch-disks.html
or search google for:
/etc/fstab mount windows partition debian vfat
Note that in Redhat the mount points are int /mnt, in Debain usually 
they are in /. You may choose what you want to do.

HTH,
->HS


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linreadline error on new install

2003-12-08 Thread Mike Thompson
I know there is a more appropriate group if someone could pass this
info on.

On two net installs of stable from 
deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free
I received a libreadline error after trying to install the base system.
The base system seemed to install until I received this error.
The install went fine when I installed from
mirror.direct.ca/pub/linux/debian
perhaps there is an error left over from the recent system reinstall.

Mike
-- 
Mike Thompson
-- 
If you always do
what you have always done.
You will always get
what you have always gotten.


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Re: Q:No modconf in 2.6?

2003-12-08 Thread Hugo Vanwoerkom
Mariano Kamp wrote:
Hi,

  I just installed 2.6 and to my surprise it came up nicely on first try. When 
trying to install modules though, modconf didn't show any? Is there another 
tool to be used.

  I've also seen this bug:

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=192232

  Would that mean that there is no other way than modprobe to manage modules 
at the moment?

Bye,
Mariano

You have installed module-init-tools? Description:

This package contains a set of programs for loading, inserting, and
removing kernel modules for Linux (versions 2.5.48 and above). It serves
the same function that the "modutils" package serves for Linux 2.4.
You'll need it.

Hugo.



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Re: silly ALSA sound problem

2003-12-08 Thread michelle
That did it. Thanks!

ScruLoose wrote:
> 
> man alsamixer
> 
> In particular, check out the -c and -D options ... Off the top of my
> head,I suspect you're looking for something like "alsamixer -c 2"
> 
> Cheers!



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Re: [OT] voting

2003-12-08 Thread Paul Morgan
On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 10:10:35 -0600, John Hasler wrote:

> Paul Morgan writes:
>> Having said that, when I see a watch, it convinces me of the existence of
>> the watchmaker
> 
> And when you view the watchmaker as a watch do you see an infinite
> regression of watchmakers?

1.  I don't view the watchmaker "as a watch".
2.  The watchmaker is extrauniversal by definition, and anything
extrauniversal is unknowable.  Cause and effect may be a local phenomenon.

-- 
paul

"Don't be so humble.  You're not that great."
(Golda Meir)



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Re: debian-installer beta: booting from grub?

2003-12-08 Thread Joey Hess
lloyd wrote:
> i installed from the debian-installer beta to a spare partition on my 
> grub-based system.  i installed lilo on this parition as well.
> 
> in grub.conf i added the following stanza:
> 
>   title debian-installer test
> root (hd0,5)
> kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.4.22-1-386
> initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.4.22-1-386

I'm not sure where lilo comes into this. It looks like you forgot the
root= option to the kernel line, so the kernel does know know where your
root filesystem is.

The [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list is a better list to send
questions about the new debian installer.

-- 
see shy jo


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Re: Newbie! Some help needed.

2003-12-08 Thread Bijan Soleymani
On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 05:20:57PM +0200, David Baron wrote:
> I installed from a Knoppix CD image. Rather painless and it found most of
> the hardware as well. Now to get the thing productive :-)
> 
> 1. How does one set up the network to work with ADSL (using a 10/100
> connected to an ADSL modem)? (Most everything I have seen is for Red Hat.)

I have an ADSL modem at work. I used ppoe-config to set it up. It's pretty 
straightforward. I use the ipmasq package share it with the other 
computer on the lan (using a second network card).

> 2. How does one set the bootup or logon script so that the Windows
> partitions will be mounted when I log on?

Partitions you want mounted should be listed in the file /etc/fstab

man fstab for more information.

Bijan
-- 
Bijan Soleymani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://www.crasseux.com


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Re: Spamassain question, whitelist?

2003-12-08 Thread stan
On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 05:17:21PM +0100, Mark Schouten wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 10:12:05AM -0500, stan wrote:
> > I'm setting up Spamassain, and I can't seem to find out how to create a
> > whitelist for it.
> > 
> > I will be retrieving my mail using fetchmail, then pasing it to procmail,
> > which will call somassain. If it matters my MUA of choice is mutt.
> 
> http://au2.spamassassin.org/doc/Mail_SpamAssassin_Conf.html
> WHITELIST AND BLACKLIST OPTIONS
> 

Mmm, I'd seen that. Seems a bit clumsy to have to edit the config file
every time I wan't to add an address to the whitelist.

-- 
"They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin


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Remastering a Debian Woody CD

2003-12-08 Thread Rajkumar S
Hi,

How can I create an updated Woody CD with the all the latest bug fixes
like the new kernel patch and other bug fixes? I have the latest official
CD, but want to keep an updated iso so that I need not do the updation
from security.debian immediately after installation.
Is it possible to replace some packages in the (updated) CD with those
from testing? Like ulogd and later kernels for example,
TIA
raj
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Re: Urgent apt-problem

2003-12-08 Thread Hoyt Bailey

- Original Message - 
From: "Guilherme Viebig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 07:12
Subject: Urgent apt-problem


> I´m trying to remove, install, upgrade...(-f || !-f) whatever...
> plptools-kde package,
>
> but it returns the same error with dirname command
>
> I´m stuck
>
> Can someone help me with this issue?
>
If you are at the end of your rope, you might try this.
cd /  #(as root)
mkdir /install
cd install
find '' /* | tee /install/files
grep plptools-kde /install/files | less
then rm (every instance in less).  Then maybe you can reinstall. No
guarantee thou.
Hoyt



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Re: Install ALSA on new Unstable install for GNOME 2?

2003-12-08 Thread Doug MacFarlane
On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 08:00:53 -0600, Kent West wrote:

> Doug MacFarlane wrote:

> You don't say what kernel you're using. I'm no audio expert, but I 
> _believe_ you'll need a newish (2.4.18+?) kernel for the 845.. audio 
> chipset support.

Sorry about that . . . I installed the stock 2.4.22-1-686 kernel-image.  I
do build my own kernels, but only after I have everything running fine!!

> What does "lspci" report?

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corp. 82845G/GL [Brookdale-G] Chipset Host Bridge
(rev 01)
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corp. 82845G/GL [Brookdale-G] Chipset
Integrated
Graphics Device (rev 01)
00:1d.0 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82801DB USB (Hub #1) (rev 01)
00:1d.1 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82801DB USB (Hub #2) (rev 01)
00:1d.2 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82801DB USB (Hub #3) (rev 01)
00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corp. 82801BA/CA/DB/EB PCI Bridge (rev 81)
00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corp. 82801DB LPC Interface Controller (rev 01)
00:1f.1 IDE interface: Intel Corp. 82801DB Ultra ATA Storage Controller 
(rev 01)
00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corp. 82801DB/DBM SMBus Controller (rev 01)
00:1f.5 Multimedia audio controller: Intel Corp. 82801DB AC'97 Audio Controller 
(rev 01)
01:00.0 Ethernet controller: 3Com Corporation 3c905C-TX/TX-M [Tornado] (rev 78)
01:01.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV5M64 [RIVA TNT2 Model 
64/Model 64 Pro] (rev 15)
01:03.0 SCSI storage controller: LSI Logic / Symbios Logic 53c875 (rev 03)

So I guess it's an 82801DB AC'97 Audio Controller . . .  

> Whatever chipset is reported by lspci, you'll need to figure out which 
> module you'll need for that chipset, probably the i820 module. You'll 
> need support for that module in your kernel. Then just "modconf" and 
> select that module, then right-click (I think) on the volume icon and 
> unmute it. (You'll also have to add your user(s) to the audio group 
> (adduser doug audio - and logout/login).)

OK - I loaded the AC97 module.  What about the sound and soundcore
modules?  Do I need to load those as well?




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Re: Remastering a Debian Woody CD

2003-12-08 Thread Paul E Condon
On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 10:56:50PM +0530, Rajkumar S wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> How can I create an updated Woody CD with the all the latest bug fixes
> like the new kernel patch and other bug fixes? I have the latest official
> CD, but want to keep an updated iso so that I need not do the updation
> from security.debian immediately after installation.
> 
> Is it possible to replace some packages in the (updated) CD with those
> from testing? Like ulogd and later kernels for example,
> 
> TIA
> raj
> 

Look at jigdo. As I recall, you can start a jigdo construction of an iso
by first giving an iso that is almost right, i.e. the prior rev. , and
then proceeding to download only the corrections that are needed. It is
covered in the jigdo instructions, or FAQ, don't remember exactly.

HTH

-- 
Paul E Condon   
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: menufont in psi

2003-12-08 Thread John M Flinchbaugh
On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 02:19:55PM -0200, Christoph Simon wrote:
> Thanks for your reply. I don't have it either, or at least, I can't
> find it anywhere. What exactly do I have to look for to get the kde
> desktop config app? Please note, that I do not want a full KDE
> installation, Psi is the only KDE program I use, and I really do
> prefer to use gaim or gabber before installing KDE.

apt-get install qt3-qtconfig

then run 'qtconfig'.  changing and saving configs in there
affected psi nicely!
-- 
}John Flinchbaugh{__
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.hjsoft.com/~glynis/ |
~~Powered by Linux: Reboots are for hardware upgrades only~~


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Fluxbox, Debian menu

2003-12-08 Thread Kristian Niemi
Got punished for trying out fluxbox-cvs, now wondering if anyone could 
help me keep the cake...

I'm using Sid.
The thing is that I had Fluxbox stable (0.1.14-2) installed, but added a 
apt-source to be able to use a more fresh Fluxbox, the Debian way. So I 
uninstalled old Fluxbox, installed newer one (all with apt-get); new one 
is version 0.9.6+cvs20031124.20-1. In that process Fluxbox' menu got 
screwed up. Disappeared, actually.

I've tried to read TFM, and so far I've only managed to figure out that 
it might have something to do with 'fluxbox' missing from 
/etc/menu-methods/ ...

Anyways, I know I can get /a/ menu by running fluxbox-generate_menu, but 
I like Debian's -- I'd like it back. And Debians menu's *are* there, 
just can't get Fluxbox (or Openbox for that matteR) to realize it...

Maybe if anyone of you uses Fluxbox, and could send me their 
/etc/menu-methods/fluxbox, that would fix it? I don't know, really. I'm 
thinking that the cvs-version doesn't tell Debian it's there, wanting to 
use menu's. So 'menu' just deleted menumethods/fluxbox with Fluxbox 
0.1.14 ... Other suggestions of what's happened?

Could I create a new one with install-menu, somehow? Again, I *have* 
tried to read TFM, but couldn't see the answer.

Oh, I'm using Openbox3 as well, it's menu got screwed up as well. Don't 
know how, don't know why. After I installed Fluxbox-cvs, tried Openbox, 
and menu was gone. Went back to Fluxbox(-cvs), and the menu was still 
gone. So the problem *might* have something to do with Openbox, but I'm 
still thinking it's the disappearence of Fluxbox (0.1.14) that's the 
heart of the problem.

Suggestions?

Thanks,
Krisse
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Re: menufont in psi

2003-12-08 Thread Christoph Simon
On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 12:56:19 -0500
John M Flinchbaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 02:19:55PM -0200, Christoph Simon wrote:
> > Thanks for your reply. I don't have it either, or at least, I can't
> > find it anywhere. What exactly do I have to look for to get the kde
> > desktop config app? Please note, that I do not want a full KDE
> > installation, Psi is the only KDE program I use, and I really do
> > prefer to use gaim or gabber before installing KDE.
> 
> apt-get install qt3-qtconfig
> 
> then run 'qtconfig'.  changing and saving configs in there
> affected psi nicely!

Right. qtconfig, as a common user, not root, did the trick. Thanks.

-- 
Christoph Simon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
---
^X^C
q
quit
:q
^C
end
x
exit
ZZ
^D
?
help
.


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Re: [OT] voting

2003-12-08 Thread s. keeling
Incoming from Paul Morgan:
> On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 10:10:35 -0600, John Hasler wrote:
> 
> > Paul Morgan writes:
> >> Having said that, when I see a watch, it convinces me of the existence of
> >> the watchmaker
> > 
> > And when you view the watchmaker as a watch do you see an infinite
> > regression of watchmakers?
> 
> 1.  I don't view the watchmaker "as a watch".
> 2.  The watchmaker is extrauniversal by definition, and anything
> extrauniversal is unknowable.  Cause and effect may be a local phenomenon.

Anything extrauniversal can have no effect on that universe.  Variable
is out of scope.  That much is knowable.

Hence, existence or not of proposed watchmaker is irrelevant to
anything inside that universe.  See "Brief History of Time" - Hawking.


-- 
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(*)   http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling 
- -


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Newbie problem finding module

2003-12-08 Thread Paul Schwartz
I have just installed Woody on my system.  My first problem is that I 
can't start the X server.  Searching various archives I have determined 
that the problem is most likely associated with the i815 graphics chips 
on the MB.

lsmod does not show that agpgart is installed as a module [there is an 
entry /dev/agpgart]
modprobe -l agpgart
   doesn't return anything

the only files that show up in my installed file system are
agpgart.h
/dev/agpgart
Where do I find the files to install that module?

TIA

Paul Schwartz



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Re: uhoh - bind on unstable

2003-12-08 Thread Monique Y. Herman
On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 at 14:24 GMT, Rob Weir penned:
> 
> --ABTtc+pdwF7KHXCz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding:
> quoted-printable
> 
> On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 12:48:47PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman said
>> I just updated some stuff on my unstable box, including bind, which
>> is now at 1:8.4.3-1
>>=20 I see this: =20 home:/etc/init.d# invoke-rc.d bind start Starting
>>domain name service: namedld.so: Incorrectly built binary which
>>accesses errno or h_errno directly.  ld.so: See
>>/usr/share/doc/libc6/FAQ.gz.
> 
> What does the BTS say?  http://bugs.debian.org/bind.  If no one else
> has reported it, you should.
> 

It says nothing.  I've now filed it using reportbug (slick app, that).

-- 
monique


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Attempt to access beyond end of device/Raid linear and 1

2003-12-08 Thread Larry W . Irwin Sr .
  I recently set up two 9 gig scsi drives on my machine. Discovered
that an attempt to copy data from one array to another results in
"I/O error. Attempt to access beyond end of device". Data copies 
to/from either raid array to/from a non-raid partition work properly.

  Googling found references to a similar problem in the 2.2 kernels 
but not the 2.4 series.

Running Debian Woody and the mdadm daemon.

--/etc/raidtab-
raiddev /dev/md0
raid-level  linear
nr-raid-disks   2
chunk-size  32
persistent-superblock   1
device  /dev/sda2
raid-disk   0
device  /dev/sdb2
raid-disk   1

raiddev /dev/md1
raid-level  1
nr-raid-disks   2
nr-spare-disks  1
chunk-size  32
persistent-superblock   1
device  /dev/sda1
raid-disk   0
device  /dev/sdb1
raid-disk   1
device  /dev/hda11
spare-disk  0


All partitions in arrays set to Linux Raid Autodetect with ext3 FS.

--/etc/fstab
/dev/hda6   /   ext3errors=remount-ro   0 1
/dev/hda12  noneswapsw  0 0
proc/proc   procdefaults0 0
/dev/fd0/mnt/floppy autouser,noauto 0 0
/dev/scd0   /mnt/cdrom  iso9660 ro,user,noauto  0 0
/dev/md0/mnt/home   autouser,rw 0 0
/dev/md1/mnt/sda2   autouser,rw 0 0
/dev/hda1   /mnt/win_c  autouser,rw 0 0
/dev/hda5   /mnt/win_d  autouser,rw 0 0
/dev/hda7   /mnt/hda7   autouser,rw 0 0
/dev/hda8   /mnt/hda8   autouser,rw 0 0
/dev/hda9   /mnt/hda9   autouser,rw 0 0
/dev/hda10  /mnt/hda10  autouser,rw 0 0
#10.0.0.11  /mnt/jorgen nfs user,rw 0 0
 ^^My home server, named after Jorgen Von Strangle

Partition info
/dev/sda1: 1 gig
/dev/sda2: 7.5 gig
/dev/sdb1: 1 gig
/dev/sdb2: 7.5 gig
/dev/hda11: 1 gig

-Output of dmesg
Linux version 2.4.18-386 ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) (gcc version 2.95.4 20011002 (Debian 
prerelease)) #2 Sun Apr 14 10:38:08 EST 2002
BIOS-provided physical RAM map:
 BIOS-e820:  - 000a (usable)
 BIOS-e820: 000f - 0010 (reserved)
 BIOS-e820: 0010 - 0f7f (usable)
 BIOS-e820: 0f7f - 0f7f3000 (ACPI NVS)
 BIOS-e820: 0f7f3000 - 0f80 (ACPI data)
 BIOS-e820:  - 0001 (reserved)
On node 0 totalpages: 63472
zone(0): 4096 pages.
zone(1): 59376 pages.
zone(2): 0 pages.
Kernel command line: BOOT_IMAGE=Linux ro root=306
Initializing CPU#0
Detected 474.979 MHz processor.
Console: colour VGA+ 80x25
Calibrating delay loop... 946.99 BogoMIPS
Memory: 245332k/253888k available (895k kernel code, 8172k reserved, 233k data, 192k 
init, 0k highmem)
Dentry-cache hash table entries: 32768 (order: 6, 262144 bytes)
Inode-cache hash table entries: 16384 (order: 5, 131072 bytes)
Mount-cache hash table entries: 4096 (order: 3, 32768 bytes)
Buffer-cache hash table entries: 16384 (order: 4, 65536 bytes)
Page-cache hash table entries: 65536 (order: 6, 262144 bytes)
CPU: Before vendor init, caps: 008021bf 808029bf , vendor = 2
CPU: L1 I Cache: 32K (32 bytes/line), D cache 32K (32 bytes/line)
CPU: After vendor init, caps: 008021bf 808029bf  0002
CPU: After generic, caps: 008021bf 808029bf  0002
CPU: Common caps: 008021bf 808029bf  0002
CPU: AMD-K6(tm) 3D processor stepping 0c
Checking 'hlt' instruction... OK.
Checking for popad bug... OK.
POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX
PCI: PCI BIOS revision 2.10 entry at 0xfb4f0, last bus=1
PCI: Using configuration type 1
PCI: Probing PCI hardware
PCI: Using IRQ router SIS [1039/0008] at 00:01.0
Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.4
Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039
Initializing RT netlink socket
Starting kswapd
VFS: Diskquotas version dquot_6.4.0 initialized
devfs: v1.10 (20020120) Richard Gooch ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
devfs: boot_options: 0x0
Detected PS/2 Mouse Port.
pty: 256 Unix98 ptys configured
Serial driver version 5.05c (2001-07-08) with HUB-6 MANY_PORTS MULTIPORT SHARE_IRQ 
SERIAL_PCI enabled
ttyS00 at 0x03f8 (irq = 4)

Re: Newbie problem finding module

2003-12-08 Thread Vineet Kumar
* Paul Schwartz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [031208 10:28]:
> I have just installed Woody on my system.  My first problem is that I 
> can't start the X server.  Searching various archives I have determined 
> that the problem is most likely associated with the i815 graphics chips 
> on the MB.
> 
> lsmod does not show that agpgart is installed as a module [there is an 
> entry /dev/agpgart]
> modprobe -l agpgart
>doesn't return anything
> 
> the only files that show up in my installed file system are
> agpgart.h
> /dev/agpgart
> 
> Where do I find the files to install that module?

What kernel are you running?  If you don't know, 'uname -r' will tell
us.

good times,
Vineet
-- 
http://www.doorstop.net/
-- 
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.
Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."  -- Barry Goldwater 


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Re: Wvdial and mysterious /dev/ttyS0 permission change

2003-12-08 Thread Andreas Janssen
Hello

csj (<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:

> On 7. December 2003 at 10:52PM +0100,
> Andreas Janssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> You can of course use predefined connections with pon/poff if
>> you are in the dip group, and you can create your own ones for
>> use with kppp /without/ kppp being suid root, if you are in the
>> dialout group.
> 
> It's the "predefined" part that's the problem.  Let's say I'm on
> vacation and my friend borrows my computer.  He reads about a
> promo from Dirt-Cheap-ISP and decides to subscribe.  How is he
> going to enter his login details, without going root, to connect
> to Dirt-Cheap-ISP?  It seems his only choice is kppp, which needs
> to be suid root to make it user configurable.

No, again: kppp /does/ /not/ have to be suid root. I use kppp to dial in
using login and passwort defined within kppp, and it is not suid root:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ll /usr/bin/kppp
-rwxr-sr--1 root dip  405k 11. Sep 13:48 /usr/bin/kppp

I am member of the dip and dialout groups, and it works.

best regards
Andreas Janssen

-- 
Andreas Janssen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
PGP-Key-ID: 0xDC801674
Registered Linux User #267976


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how to interpret /proc/asound

2003-12-08 Thread michelle
kernel 2.6-test9
alsa 0.9.8
sarge
emu10k1 for sbLive

I compiled the kernel and alsa.  The kernel runs but, I get no sound.  
/proc/asound says
no soundcards
and then for the audio and midi devices, it says NOT ENABLED IN CONFIG.

modprobe snd-emu10k1 fails
(trying without the snd- also fails)

The kernel was compiled with sound support (alsa and oss).
Do I need something in a config file somewhere?
/etc/modutils/alsa has entries the entries for the various aliases, 
including snd-emu10k1. I did update-modules. My card shows up when I try 
lspci, so the kernel seems to know about it.


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SOLVED (was: Re: Apache memory leak)

2003-12-08 Thread Andreas Schwarz
Andreas Schwarz wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm using Apache from Debian Woody on my server. Now I noticed that
> Apache is eating up more and more memory, so that I have to restart it
> every few days.

I found the reason: libapache-mod-ruby 1.0.7-1 is leaking memory when
Apache receives USR1.


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debootstrap

2003-12-08 Thread Martin Arrieta

hi.. i'm making a remote debian instalation, and i need the debootstrap
rpm file to do it.

all links in the web goes to people.debian.org (wich is is not available
now..)

anyone knows any mirror of people.debian.org or where can i find this
file?

tks.

ps: the full path to the file is
http://people.debian.org/~blade/install/debootstrap/debootstrap-0.1.16.4-2.i386.rpm

Martin




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EXT2-fs error

2003-12-08 Thread Robin Gerard
Hello,
after my box crashed and when I booted the machine agai I got the message:

...
ext3 No journal on filesystem on ide0(3, 4)
mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev2/root2, or
too many mounted file system.

however fsck said that '/dev/hda4' is clean and I can use linux almost 
as usual; almost, that unfortunately, if I run 'updatedb' (as root) I get:

EXT2-fs errror  device ide0(3, 4): ext2_check_page: size of directory
#8418985 is not a multiple of chunk size
Remounting filesystem read-only
rm: cannot remove '/usrcache/locate/locatedb': Read-only filesystem
mv: overwrite ' /usrcache/locate/locatedb', owerriding mode 0644 ?

Is it possible to repair my filesystem ?
And how can'I do it ?
My kernel is 2.4.20-386 (package Debian) 

tia 
-- 
Gerard


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Re: Tom Ballard, MSFT shill (was Re: Debian Server Compromise -- A Fire Drill ??)

2003-12-08 Thread ScruLoose
On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 03:35:40AM -0800, Tom wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 11:25:33PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote:

> > Peace.
> 
> What the fuck are you ranting about?


Ah, there's a surefire way to bolster your credibility.
Clearly the mark of a mature mind:  As soon as somebody hits a little
close to home, you dismiss it with a wave of the hand and a one-line 
profanity. No attempt to address _any_ of the points raised.
I'm sure we're all as overawed as I am with the power of this rhetoric.


Nor is this the first time this childish response has shown up:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2003/debian-user-200311/msg02910.html

As was pointed out then, it's also a dangling reference:
http://learn.to/quote

And all the while you feel entitled to take a position of smug 
superiority towards anyone who disagrees with you, claiming that it 
must be because your supposed insights make them uncomfortable "beneath 
the surface".  That's just sad.  Or maybe it's deliberate trolling.

Cheers!
-- 
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I was just a boy then, now I'm only a man.
- Pink Floyd
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