Re: Bug#418552: ITP: umit -- nmap frontend, developed in Python and GTK

[Stefano Zacchiroli]

On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 10:02:27AM +0200, Andrea Bolognani wrote:
> > Is it interesting for the user/sysadm that the frontend is developed in
> > Python? I would remote that (while I will keep the reference to GTK) and
> > perhaps adding something about the intended targets: both advanced users
> > and newbies.
> The reference to GTK is useless, too.
> We have tags for that sort of things.

I disagree. Tags can express a lot more of information of what does fit
a *short* description. One has to make a choice about what to put there.

Given umit is a graphical frontend I (as a user) personally would like
to know since the beginning how does it look like, and knowing the
widget toolkit helps a lot in that respect.  YMMV.

-- 
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Re: [RFH] CMake and /usr/lib64/

[Michal Čihař]

Hi

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 08:49:47 +0200
Bastian Venthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Does anybody know how to tell CMake not to use /usr/lib64 but /usr/lib
> when building a package on amd64?

There are needed some special steps? I recently switched Gammu package
to CMake and it automatically installs to /usr/lib.

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Re: Debian Development environments.

[Josselin Mouette]

Le mercredi 11 avril 2007 à 23:20 +0100, Luis Matos a écrit :
> Tasksel has no devel task.
> 
> There are no development environments for example: C/gtk, C#/GTK,
> Java/Gtk, python/gtk pre-defined.

apt-get install gnome-devel

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Re: 64-bit transition deadline (Re: Etch in the hands of the Stable Release Managers)

[Robert Millan]

On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 06:23:32PM +0100, Luis Matos wrote:
> Qua, 2007-04-11 às 17:33 +0200, Robert Millan escreveu:
> > > I don't know what the critical mass of Linux users is that generates
> > > interest for Linux among software vendors.  We seem to be far from
> > > it.  
> > 
> > Yes, but Microsoft is much farther.  I wouldn't be surprised if our
> > 64-bit
> > userbase outnumbered win64's already.  When 64-bit computing as a
> > whole starts
> > to become significant, they'll start to be interested in either of
> > these
> > platforms. 
> 
> don't forget the servers boost on amd64 + linux that every big companies
> (hp, ibm, sun for example) sold.

Sadly, I don't think servers are significant on this.  They can even run
win64 there, since people don't plug their USB printers or gamepads into
servers ;-)

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Re: 64-bit transition deadline (Re: Etch in the hands of the Stable Release Managers)

[Robert Millan]

On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 10:55:36PM +0200, Michael Banck wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 02:13:07PM -0400, Matthias Julius wrote:
> > I don't think it needs win64-only games.
> 
> Please remember that this is debian-devel and not some general
> discussion list.

This thread has been moved from debian-release already.  We're discussing
a question that could affecte decisions on the lenny release schedule.
Which list is appropiate for that?

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Re: 64-bit transition deadline (Re: Etch in the hands of the Stable Release Managers)

[Robert Millan]

On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 02:13:07PM -0400, Matthias Julius wrote:
> 
> I don't think it needs win64-only games.  It just needs games that run
> with a 10% higher frame rate on win64 to create demand. Or on
> Linux-amd64.

Not even that.  The hype factor is enough to create demand, but this kind of
demand is not enough to convince most gamers into throwing away all their
old hardware.  If there's a win64-only killer app, that could be different.

> > Yes, but Microsoft is much farther.  I wouldn't be surprised if our 64-bit
> > userbase outnumbered win64's already.
> 
> And MS doesn't care.  As long as users don't switch to Linux because
> they need a working 64bit system.  This might be the case for servers
> but not for desktop systems.  People just stay with win32 if they can
> not have win64 drivers for their hardware.

And if they stay with win32 (+ pae) for too long, a new, small 64-bit
niche will be stablished.

> > When 64-bit computing as a whole starts to become significant,
> > they'll start to be interested in either of these platforms.
> 
> It will be a while before that happens for desktop computers.  So far
> it doesn't provide a real advantage for the average desktop computer.

As soon as the average desktop has 8 GiB, some of the vendors will want to
ditch the uglyness of win32+pae and go 64-bit.

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Re: Use bz2 not gz for orig.tar ?

[Robert Millan]

On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 12:12:00PM +1000, Drew Parsons wrote:
> Do we have plans for lenny to enable the use of bzip2 instead of gzip
> for the upstream orig.tar source tarballs?  Does dpkg/apt support this
> already or has this already been thought about?
> 
> This would reduce our archive size by some 20% if all packages moved to
> bzip2.

Why not lzma?  It reduces size even more and doesn't suffer from the "all our
code belongs to propietary programs" licensing curse.

  http://www.linuks.mine.nu/sizematters/

  (look for p7zip here; same algorithm, different implementation)

It can be used for data.tar as well.  The dpkg shipped in etch had support for
unpacking it, so technicaly we can do it.

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Re: Use bz2 not gz for orig.tar ?

[Miriam Ruiz]

According to the benchmarks in http://www.linuks.mine.nu/sizematters/ , the
size of the archive would be nearly 30% smaller, but the decompression would
be 5 times slower, meaning that it would take 500% the time it takes now to
uncompress the archives. Compression time would be 10 times more (1000% the
time it takes now). I wonder if that would be suitable for smaller systems.

Greetings,
Miry

2007/4/12, Robert Millan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 12:12:00PM +1000, Drew Parsons wrote:
> Do we have plans for lenny to enable the use of bzip2 instead of gzip
> for the upstream orig.tar source tarballs?  Does dpkg/apt support this
> already or has this already been thought about?
>
> This would reduce our archive size by some 20% if all packages moved to
> bzip2.

Why not lzma?  It reduces size even more and doesn't suffer from the "all
our
code belongs to propietary programs" licensing curse.

  http://www.linuks.mine.nu/sizematters/

  (look for p7zip here; same algorithm, different implementation)

It can be used for data.tar as well.  The dpkg shipped in etch had support
for
unpacking it, so technicaly we can do it.

Re: Use bz2 not gz for orig.tar ?

[Lars Wirzenius]

On to, 2007-04-12 at 10:12 +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 12:12:00PM +1000, Drew Parsons wrote:
> > This would reduce our archive size by some 20% if all packages moved to
> > bzip2.
> 
> Why not lzma?  It reduces size even more and doesn't suffer from the "all our
> code belongs to propietary programs" licensing curse.

I'm ignorant of compression programs. What licensing curse are you
referring to here?

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Re: Debian Development environments.

[Gabor Gombas]

On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 12:57:09AM +0200, Santiago Vila wrote:

> I don't think "beginner" and "developer" belong in the same sentence.

Yes they do. I met people who develop commercial software but who are
completely ignorant about any system administration tasks. They're not
the people who use computers because they like it and like to figure out
how it works. They use computers because they get money for it. They are
not intereted in doing anything at all that is not strictly related to
the "edit-compile-run" cycle.

Of course with such workers you do need a dedicated system administrator
but that was not the point here.

Gabor

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Re: Debian Development environments.

[Reinhard Tartler]

Santiago Vila <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>> i don't mean all the debug and etc stuff... But the a beginner
>> environment for people to start to use and learn about linux
>> development.
>
> I don't think "beginner" and "developer" belong in the same sentence.

At least for debian, this seems to be quite right.

Since this inquiry is valid however, it seems to me that it would make
sense the think about some CDD specialised for developers.

Volunteers?

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The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

Looking at the submission numbers from
http://popcon.debian.org/>, I am happy to report that the number
of Etch installations is increasing fast.  Here are the number of
submissions collected by popularity-contest, with the increment.  It
is easy to see when Etch was released.

  date  submissions change
  2007-04-03 32311 +55
  2007-04-04 32400 +89
  2007-04-05 32504+104
  2007-04-06 32525 +21
  2007-04-07 32595 +70
  2007-04-08 32722+127
  2007-04-09 33639+917
  2007-04-10 34530+891
  2007-04-11 35420+890

Now I just wonder how long the rate of increase will keep up. :)

This is the current architecture distribution.

2   0.01% i486
2   0.01% kfreebsd-amd64
3   0.01% hurd-i386
3   0.01% ppc64
7   0.02% armel
9   0.03% armeb
9   0.03% s390
9   0.03% kfreebsd-i386
   11   0.03% m68k
   22   0.06% mips
   41   0.12% ia64
   44   0.13% hppa
   52   0.15% alpha
   53   0.15% mipsel
  171   0.49% sparc
  448   1.27% powerpc
  615   1.75% arm
 4279  12.16% amd64
29417  83.58% i386
35197 100.00% total (ignored 223 without arch info)

Friendly,
-- 
Petter Reinholdtsen
One of the poularity-contest maintainers


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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[greenhybrid]

Petter Reinholdtsen schrieb:

Looking at the submission numbers from
http://popcon.debian.org/>, I am happy to report that the number
of Etch installations is increasing fast.  Here are the number of
submissions collected by popularity-contest, with the increment.  It
is easy to see when Etch was released.

  date  submissions change
  2007-04-03 32311 +55
  2007-04-04 32400 +89
  2007-04-05 32504+104

  2007-04-06 32525 +21
  2007-04-07 32595 +70
  2007-04-08 32722+127
  2007-04-09 33639+917
  2007-04-10 34530+891
  2007-04-11 35420+890

Now I just wonder how long the rate of increase will keep up. :)

This is the current architecture distribution.

2   0.01% i486
2   0.01% kfreebsd-amd64
3   0.01% hurd-i386
3   0.01% ppc64
7   0.02% armel
9   0.03% armeb
9   0.03% s390
9   0.03% kfreebsd-i386
   11   0.03% m68k
   22   0.06% mips
   41   0.12% ia64
   44   0.13% hppa
   52   0.15% alpha
   53   0.15% mipsel
  171   0.49% sparc
  448   1.27% powerpc
  615   1.75% arm
 4279  12.16% amd64
29417  83.58% i386
35197 100.00% total (ignored 223 without arch info)

Friendly,
  
Is that only for stable? Me for example uses a february testing, and I 
might not be alone



Greetings,

Sebastian Mach

[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Joey Hess]

Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
> Looking at the submission numbers from
> http://popcon.debian.org/>, I am happy to report that the number
> of Etch installations is increasing fast.  Here are the number of
> submissions collected by popularity-contest, with the increment.  It
> is easy to see when Etch was released.

Now if we only knew what percentage of users take the manual action
needed to answer Yes to the "enable popcon" question...

My personal guess is somewhere between 1 and 10%, just a gut feeling,
based on the well-established tendancy of many users to blindly hit enter
to all dialogs whenever possible.

I wonder if it would be reasonable to make d-i hit one of two urls
depending on whether the user chose to enable popcon, and count the
results.

-- 
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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Fabio Tranchitella]

* 2007-04-12 11:29, Joey Hess wrote:
> I wonder if it would be reasonable to make d-i hit one of two urls
> depending on whether the user chose to enable popcon, and count the
> results.

Isn't this a violation of user's privacy? If the user hitted `No', this
really means that he doesn't want to call home.

Cheers,

-- 
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Looking for Co-Maintainers for MySQL

[Christian Hammers]

Hello

As I had much too few time for testing and improving the MySQL packages during
the last month and will be away for the whole May, I need some Co-Maintainer.

Preferably someone who is motivated enough to maybe somewhen take over the whole
package as I'm getting a bit bored on it after 8 years of maintainership :)

If you're interested have a look at the following page:
   http://bugs.debian.org/[EMAIL PROTECTED] (almost only MySQL bugs)
   http://packages.qa.debian.org/m/mysql-dfsg-5.0.html
   http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/mysql-dfsg-41 (don't mind the 41 its for 5.0, too)

Then start fixing bugs :)

bye,

-christian-


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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Raphael Hertzog]

Hi,

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007, Fabio Tranchitella wrote:
> * 2007-04-12 11:29, Joey Hess wrote:
> > I wonder if it would be reasonable to make d-i hit one of two urls
> > depending on whether the user chose to enable popcon, and count the
> > results.
> 
> Isn't this a violation of user's privacy? If the user hitted `No', this
> really means that he doesn't want to call home.

As long as we don't use that to collect sensitive information, it would be
ok IMO. (Of course, a preseed question could avoid it completely too)

Fedora has done it and while the initial discussion came up with such
concerns, they have done so without creating major troubles or loosing
developers, etc.

I remember this LWN article on this topic:
http://lwn.net/Articles/203694/

I can't find a newer article with the final decision taken and the
rationale but that would be interesting for this discussion.

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog

Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux :
http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/


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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Fabio Tranchitella]

* 2007-04-12 12:09, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> As long as we don't use that to collect sensitive information, it would be
> ok IMO. (Of course, a preseed question could avoid it completely too)

I think Google Earth for Linux does the same, and IIRC the general
agreement in the free software community was that it is a evil behavior.

I may be wrong, I don't know, but in my opinion a ping to call back home
even if the user said `No' is a evil behaviour and Debian should avoid it.

Cheers,

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Re: Debian Buzz and Rex binary packages

[Aurélien GÉRÔME]

Hi Enrico,

On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 11:01:10PM +0200, Cherubini Enrico wrote:
> Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 04:49:21PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
>
>> Hmm, I was under the impression that before 2.0, debian wasn't released
>> as binaries yet, only source packages and the source code to the
>> utilities needed to build the packages.  I didn't really think debian
>> had any real installer or anything before 2.0 anyhow.  More of a work in
>> progress.  I could be wrong of course since I only actually started
>> using debian at version 2.0 (which was hard enough to install).
>
>I have the 1995 InfoMagic 5 cd set, and it contains Debian 1.0 with .deb
>packages and of course install floppy images :)

Excellent, 1.0 is actually 0.93.

>Maybe I'll try it in some qemu/xen virtual system :)

It is exactly the experiment that I was talking about, i.e. testing
the upgrade path of a basic system, tinkering with the packaging
system of the era back then, seeing the technical evolution, and
probably other very funny things...

>home:/cdrom/debian/debian-1.0# du -s binary/
>88290   binary/
>
>eheh :)

I can provide FTP space for you to upload the ISO images and for
others who might want to download them afterwards. If you have some
time to do that, please let me know privately, as the details will
probably not interest the list.

Cheers,
-- 
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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Azazel]

Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, 12 Apr 2007, Fabio Tranchitella wrote:
> > * 2007-04-12 11:29, Joey Hess wrote:
> > > I wonder if it would be reasonable to make d-i hit one of two urls
> > > depending on whether the user chose to enable popcon, and count
> the
> > > results.
> >
> > Isn't this a violation of user's privacy? If the user hitted `No',
> this
> > really means that he doesn't want to call home.
>
> As long as we don't use that to collect sensitive information, it
> would be
> ok IMO. (Of course, a preseed question could avoid it completely too)
>
> Fedora has done it and while the initial discussion came up with such
> concerns, they have done so without creating major troubles or loosing
> developers, etc.
>
> I remember this LWN article on this topic:
> http://lwn.net/Articles/203694/
>
> I can't find a newer article with the final decision taken and the
> rationale but that would be interesting for this discussion.

There's this, which refers to an article on linux.com:

  http://lwn.net/Articles/219628/

J.
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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Simon Josefsson]

Fabio Tranchitella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> * 2007-04-12 11:29, Joey Hess wrote:
>> I wonder if it would be reasonable to make d-i hit one of two urls
>> depending on whether the user chose to enable popcon, and count the
>> results.
>
> Isn't this a violation of user's privacy? If the user hitted `No', this
> really means that he doesn't want to call home.

If the user hit enter on 'No' there could be another question asking
whether to just report that you installed a new machine.  The default
for that question would be 'Yes'.

Hm.  To reduce the number of questions asked during install, I suggest
having three options for the popcon question:

 [ ] No, don't use popcon
 [X] No, don't use popcon, but notify that you installed a new machine.
 [ ] Yes, use popcon

The middle option would be the default.  It would do a HTTP GET to
some debian.org machine.

However, this opens up for people setting up bots to destroy the
statistics...

/Simon


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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Lars Wirzenius]

On to, 2007-04-12 at 12:16 +0200, Fabio Tranchitella wrote:
> * 2007-04-12 12:09, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> > As long as we don't use that to collect sensitive information, it would be
> > ok IMO. (Of course, a preseed question could avoid it completely too)
> 
> I think Google Earth for Linux does the same, and IIRC the general
> agreement in the free software community was that it is a evil behavior.
> 
> I may be wrong, I don't know, but in my opinion a ping to call back home
> even if the user said `No' is a evil behaviour and Debian should avoid it.

I agree. If the user says "no", we should do nothing.

However, changing the popcon debconf question to something like the
following might be an acceptable compromise:

Would you like to participate in the Debian package popularity
contest meter? Blah blah blah. You may also choose to only
report once that you have installed this release of Debian on a
new machine. In that case no other information from you or your
machine gets recorded.

[ ] No, I do not want to participate at all.
[ ] I want to report once that I have installed Debian.
[ ] I want to participate in the package popularity contest.

The new choice would then do something like generate a UUID for the
machine and do a single HTTP query to report it and the contents
of /etc/debian_version.

How does that sound?

-- 
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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Thijs Kinkhorst]

On Thu, 2007-04-12 at 05:29 -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> I wonder if it would be reasonable to make d-i hit one of two urls
> depending on whether the user chose to enable popcon, and count the
> results.

Since there are some potential drawbacks to this functionality, what
concrete gain would the project have for collecting that information?


Thijs


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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[gregor herrmann]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:39:32 +, Lars Wirzenius wrote:

> > I may be wrong, I don't know, but in my opinion a ping to call back home
> > even if the user said `No' is a evil behaviour and Debian should avoid it.
> I agree. If the user says "no", we should do nothing.

Full ack.
 
> [ ] No, I do not want to participate at all.
> [ ] I want to report once that I have installed Debian.
> [ ] I want to participate in the package popularity contest.
>
> How does that sound?

Sounds good to me.

gregor 
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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Jeroen van Wolffelaar]

On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 01:13:55PM +0200, Thijs Kinkhorst wrote:
> On Thu, 2007-04-12 at 05:29 -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> > I wonder if it would be reasonable to make d-i hit one of two urls
> > depending on whether the user chose to enable popcon, and count the
> > results.
> 
> Since there are some potential drawbacks to this functionality, what
> concrete gain would the project have for collecting that information?

As suggested by a Linux.com article about what Fedora did[1], you can
use it to be more convincing towards others. For example, when trying to
convince a software supplier to change license terms to be DFSG-free,
it will sound more convincing if we can actually give some better
estimate on how many users Debian has than "eh, no idea actually".

To quote the article:

| The metrics gleaned from Fedora's data collection amount to more than
| just a chance for developers to pat themselves on the back, however.
| They also provide the opportunity to show the growing number of Linux
| users within the computing community which, in turn, may goose hardware
| vendors into offering more Linux-friendly goods and services.
| 
| "This provides objective data that helps prove Linux is growing and it
| helps build a case for Linux in general" says Spevack. "Also, we always
| say we wish hardware vendors had more [Linux-capable] drivers. Well, if
| you can go to them and say, 'Hey, there's millions of people using
| this,' then maybe they will listen. In the real world, you need data to
| prove your case. Well, here it is." 

--Jeroen

[1] http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/01/15/2137215

-- 
Jeroen van Wolffelaar
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http://Jeroen.A-Eskwadraat.nl


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Bug#418858: ITP: xmds-doc -- documentation for the eXtensible Multi-Dimensional Simulator

[Rafael Laboissiere]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Rafael Laboissiere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: xmds-doc
  Version : 0~svn.1321
  Upstream Author : P.T. Cochrane, G. Collecutt, P.D. Drummond, and J.J. Hope
* URL : http://xmds.sourceforge.net/
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: LaTeX
  Description : documentation for the eXtensible Multi-Dimensional Simulator
   XMDS is a code generator that integrates equations, from Ordinary
   Differential Equations (ODEs) up to stochastic Partial Differential
   Equations (PDEs). You write them down in human readable form in an
   XML file, and it goes away and writes and compiles a C++ program that
   integrates those equations as fast as it can possibly be done in your
   architecture.
   .
   This package contain the XMDS manual in PDF format.

A pre-package is available at my private APT repository [1].  The funny
upstream number (0~svn.1321) is due to the fact that xmds-doc has never been
released in source format.  The upstream tarball is obtained by debian/rules
in the get-orig-source rule.  This package will be collectively maintained
[2] by the Debian Scientific Computing Project [3].

[1] http://people.debian.org/~rafael/xmds/
[2] http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-scicomp/xmds-doc/
[3] http://pkg-scicomp.alioth.debian.org/


Rafael Laboissiere

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.17-2-686 (SMP w/1 CPU core)
Locale: LANG=en_US, LC_CTYPE=en_US (charmap=ISO-8859-1)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash



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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Alexis Sukrieh]

Lars Wirzenius wrote:

I may be wrong, I don't know, but in my opinion a ping to call back home
even if the user said `No' is a evil behaviour and Debian should avoid it.


I agree. If the user says "no", we should do nothing.


Indeed, I also think that "No" here means "I don't want to send any kind 
of information".



However, changing the popcon debconf question to something like the
following might be an acceptable compromise:

[...]

[ ] No, I do not want to participate at all.
[ ] I want to report once that I have installed Debian.
[ ] I want to participate in the package popularity contest.


That sounds pretty good, and I believe that the "blind-user effect" Joey 
spoke about would be reduced with a select choice.


Regards,

--
Alexis Sukrieh


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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

[Sebastian Mach]
> Is that only for stable? Me for example uses a february testing, and
> I might not be alone

These numbers are for everyone, including oldstable, stable, testing
and unstable.

Friendly,
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Petter Reinholdtsen


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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

[Lars Wirzenius]
> However, changing the popcon debconf question to something like the
> following might be an acceptable compromise:
>
> Would you like to participate in the Debian package popularity
> contest meter? Blah blah blah. You may also choose to only
> report once that you have installed this release of Debian on a
> new machine. In that case no other information from you or your
> machine gets recorded.
> 
> [ ] No, I do not want to participate at all.
> [ ] I want to report once that I have installed Debian.
> [ ] I want to participate in the package popularity contest.

Interesting idea.  Perhaps it deserve a wishlist request in BTS?

> The new choice would then do something like generate a UUID for the
> machine and do a single HTTP query to report it and the contents of
> /etc/debian_version.

Actually, I've considered adding hardware reporting to popcon, using a
separate question (or more options, not sure which), and hardware
reports do not need to be sent as often as package usage.  Such
report-once setting should report the output of lsmod, lspci,
dmidecode, lsusb etc, to allow us to know what hardware is in use out
there.

Friendly,
-- 
Petter Reinholdtsen


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Re: Debian Development environments.

[Luis Matos]

Qui, 2007-04-12 às 09:53 +0200, Josselin Mouette escreveu:
> Le mercredi 11 avril 2007 à 23:20 +0100, Luis Matos a écrit :
> > Tasksel has no devel task.
> > 
> > There are no development environments for example: C/gtk, C#/GTK,
> > Java/Gtk, python/gtk pre-defined.
> 
> apt-get install gnome-devel
> 

i think that is better to have something like gnome-devel-c-cplusplus,
gnome-devel-csharp, gnome-devel-java (this would be very good),
gnome-devel-python ...

gnome-devel has what? anjuta, devhelp, glade and ... i see for example
that it has no -dev dependency ... so ... how are people going to
compile stuff against gnome/gtk/linux libraries? They are only
recomends.

this should be an IDES/DOCS/LIBRARIES set. So the developer (as user)
can have the development environment complete.
This can be even better if it has an option to install this in tasksel.


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Re: Debian Development environments.

[Luis Matos]

Qui, 2007-04-12 às 11:03 +0200, Reinhard Tartler escreveu:
> Santiago Vila <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> >> i don't mean all the debug and etc stuff... But the a beginner
> >> environment for people to start to use and learn about linux
> >> development.
> >
> > I don't think "beginner" and "developer" belong in the same sentence.
> 
> At least for debian, this seems to be quite right.
> 
> Since this inquiry is valid however, it seems to me that it would make
> sense the think about some CDD specialised for developers.
> 

This would be very nice ... maybe some livecd's? ( it does not need
necessarilly to be cdd)

> Volunteers?
> 
> -- 
> Gruesse/greetings,
> Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4
> 
> 


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Re: Debian Development environments.

[Luis Matos]

Qui, 2007-04-12 às 10:58 +0200, Gabor Gombas escreveu:
> On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 12:57:09AM +0200, Santiago Vila wrote:
> 
> > I don't think "beginner" and "developer" belong in the same sentence.
> 
> Yes they do. I met people who develop commercial software but who are
> completely ignorant about any system administration tasks. They're not
> the people who use computers because they like it and like to figure out
> how it works. They use computers because they get money for it. They are
> not intereted in doing anything at all that is not strictly related to
> the "edit-compile-run" cycle.

This is what i ment!!!
> 
> Of course with such workers you do need a dedicated system administrator
> but that was not the point here.

I think of my coleagues and some people i know that are interested in
programming and not making sys admin stuff. They just want to install
some cd and have all the development environment.

For example, one person i know, just goes to synaptic and starts to
install everything he just thinks it has something to do with what he
wants.

So he has lots and lots of stuff that are just filling disk space and
are not used.

Imagine this when an upgrade is needed.

> 
> Gabor
> 
> -- 
>  -
>  MTA SZTAKI Computer and Automation Research Institute
> Hungarian Academy of Sciences
>  -
> 
> 


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Re: Debian Development environments.

[André Luiz Rodrigues Ferreira]

2007/4/12, Luis Matos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


Qui, 2007-04-12 às 09:53 +0200, Josselin Mouette escreveu:
> Le mercredi 11 avril 2007 à 23:20 +0100, Luis Matos a écrit :
> > Tasksel has no devel task.
> >
> > There are no development environments for example: C/gtk, C#/GTK,
> > Java/Gtk, python/gtk pre-defined.
>
> apt-get install gnome-devel
>

i think that is better to have something like gnome-devel-c-cplusplus,
gnome-devel-csharp, gnome-devel-java (this would be very good),
gnome-devel-python ...



Yeap! IMHO a meta-package would be better...


gnome-devel has what? anjuta, devhelp, glade and ... i see for example

that it has no -dev dependency ... so ... how are people going to
compile stuff against gnome/gtk/linux libraries? They are only
recomends.

this should be an IDES/DOCS/LIBRARIES set. So the developer (as user)
can have the development environment complete.
This can be even better if it has an option to install this in tasksel.


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***
Orlandia - SP - Brazil

Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
> Actually, I've considered adding hardware reporting to popcon, using a
> separate question (or more options, not sure which), and hardware
> reports do not need to be sent as often as package usage.  Such
> report-once setting should report the output of lsmod, lspci,
> dmidecode, lsusb etc, to allow us to know what hardware is in use out
> there.

dmidecode output is a big problem.  It includes machine UUID and serial
numbers.

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh


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Re: Debian Development environments.

[Josselin Mouette]

Le jeudi 12 avril 2007 à 14:25 +0100, Luis Matos a écrit :
> gnome-devel has what? anjuta, devhelp, glade and ... 

... and gnome-core-devel.

> i see for example
> that it has no -dev dependency ... so ... how are people going to
> compile stuff against gnome/gtk/linux libraries? They are only
> recomends.

No.

-- 
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`. `'   We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to
  `-our own. Resistance is futile.

Re: Debian Development environments.

[Luis Matos]

Qui, 2007-04-12 às 09:37 -0300, André Luiz Rodrigues Ferreira escreveu:
> 
> 2007/4/12, Luis Matos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Qui, 2007-04-12 às 09:53 +0200, Josselin Mouette escreveu:
> > Le mercredi 11 avril 2007 à 23:20 +0100, Luis Matos a
> écrit :
> > > Tasksel has no devel task.
> > >
> > > There are no development environments for example: C/gtk,
> C#/GTK, 
> > > Java/Gtk, python/gtk pre-defined.
> >
> > apt-get install gnome-devel
> >
> 
> i think that is better to have something like
> gnome-devel-c-cplusplus,
> gnome-devel-csharp, gnome-devel-java (this would be very
> good), 
> gnome-devel-python ...
> 
> Yeap! IMHO a meta-package would be better...

But ... it would be great to have some tasksel "submenu" gnome-devel and
the select the environments.
anyway ... an wishlist bug is on the way to gnome-devel.
>  
> 
> gnome-devel has what? anjuta, devhelp, glade and ... i see for
> example
> that it has no -dev dependency ... so ... how are people going
> to
> compile stuff against gnome/gtk/linux libraries? They are only
> recomends.
> 
> this should be an IDES/DOCS/LIBRARIES set. So the developer
> (as user)
> can have the development environment complete.
> This can be even better if it has an option to install this in
> tasksel.
> 
> 
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Andre Luiz Rodrigues Ferreira (si0ux) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> *** 
> Orlandia - SP - Brazil


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Re: Debian Development environments.

[Luis Matos]

Qui, 2007-04-12 às 14:39 +0200, Josselin Mouette escreveu:
> Le jeudi 12 avril 2007 à 14:25 +0100, Luis Matos a écrit :
> > gnome-devel has what? anjuta, devhelp, glade and ... 
> 
> ... and gnome-core-devel.

you killed me ... true, it has the -dev packages.

do you agree with the previous post about dividing gnome-devel in some
of them (or criating some of them).
> 
> > i see for example
> > that it has no -dev dependency ... so ... how are people going to
> > compile stuff against gnome/gtk/linux libraries? They are only
> > recomends.
> 
> No.
> 


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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Matthias Julius]

Petter Reinholdtsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> [Sebastian Mach]
>> Is that only for stable? Me for example uses a february testing, and
>> I might not be alone
>
> These numbers are for everyone, including oldstable, stable, testing
> and unstable.

And what is most interesting about them is their rate of increase.
And I don't think anybody will now install a february testing.

Matthias


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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Johannes Wiedersich]

Lars Wirzenius wrote:
> However, changing the popcon debconf question to something like the
> following might be an acceptable compromise:
> 
> Would you like to participate in the Debian package popularity
> contest meter? Blah blah blah. You may also choose to only
> report once that you have installed this release of Debian on a
> new machine. In that case no other information from you or your
> machine gets recorded.
> 
> [ ] No, I do not want to participate at all.
> [ ] I want to report once that I have installed Debian.
> [ ] I want to participate in the package popularity contest.
> 
> The new choice would then do something like generate a UUID for the
> machine and do a single HTTP query to report it and the contents
> of /etc/debian_version.
> 
> How does that sound?

Sounds good!

I would suggest to also include at least some limited hardware
information. That could help to convince hardware suppliers that it pays
off to offer linux supported hardware; I'm thinking especially about
notebooks. It could also help shoppers to get an impression of how many
people use debian (successfully) on what type of laptop/hardware, even
though that information is no substitute to tuxmobil.org or
www.linux-laptop.net.

For laptops brand/model would be nice, although it probably will be
difficult or impossible to include that in an automated fashion.

Johannes


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Mozilla renames: is Debian the only one?

[Pierre THIERRY]

I was wondering, as I did not find any clear info on the subject by
Googling: is Debian the only distro that renamed the Mozilla packages?
If not, which ones?

Curiously,
Pierre
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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]
> dmidecode output is a big problem.  It includes machine UUID and serial
> numbers.

Yes.

Perhaps we only want to collect a subset of that information, or at
least warn the admin about the issues.

I believe The ubuntu hardware database collect that kind of
information to http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/> already, and are
reluctant to share the information collected because of it.

dmidecode is the only place I know we can get hardware model and for
example if the machine support IPMI, so I want to collect at least of
of it.  Perhaps we should filter out the lines with 'UUID:' and
'Serial Number:' Not sure if it is enough to avoid the sensitive
stuff.

Friendly,
-- 
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Re: Mozilla renames: is Debian the only one?

[Chris Lamb]

Pierre THIERRY wrote:

> If not, which ones?

+ http://www.gnewsense.org/  ?

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Re: Mozilla renames: is Debian the only one?

[Lawrence Williams]

On April 12, 2007 11:34:00 am Chris Lamb wrote:
> Pierre THIERRY wrote:
> > If not, which ones?
>
> + http://www.gnewsense.org/  ?

Gentoo has done renames of Mozilla products such as Firefox too.

- Lawrence


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Re: Debian Development environments.

[Holger Levsen]

Hi,

On Thursday 12 April 2007 11:03, Reinhard Tartler wrote:
> Since this inquiry is valid however, it seems to me that it would make
> sense the think about some CDD specialised for developers.

I recently heard about this "Debian sid" thingy, maybe you give it a try?

Seriously, I dont understand.

And as a side remark, to the beginning of this subthread: every developer 
starts/ed as a beginner.


regards,
Holger


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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[gregor herrmann]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 15:22:37 +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:

> > dmidecode output is a big problem.  It includes machine UUID and serial
> > numbers.
> Yes.
> Perhaps we only want to collect a subset of that information, or at
> least warn the admin about the issues.

I'd suggest to show the person in front of the computer which data
would be sent and get their approval before actually sending them.
 
gregor 
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Re: Mozilla renames: is Debian the only one?

[Sune Vuorela]

On 2007-04-12, Lawrence Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On April 12, 2007 11:34:00 am Chris Lamb wrote:
>> Pierre THIERRY wrote:
>> > If not, which ones?
>>
>> + http://www.gnewsense.org/  ?
>
> Gentoo has done renames of Mozilla products such as Firefox too.

I asked one of my local gentoo devs - and he says "no - it is not
rebranded/renamed"

/Sune


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Re: Bug#418552: ITP: umit -- nmap frontend, developed in Python and GTK

[Andrea Bolognani]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:02:56 +0200
Stefano Zacchiroli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > The reference to GTK is useless, too.
> > We have tags for that sort of things.
>
> I disagree. Tags can express a lot more of information of what does fit
> a *short* description. One has to make a choice about what to put there.
>
> Given umit is a graphical frontend I (as a user) personally would like
> to know since the beginning how does it look like, and knowing the
> widget toolkit helps a lot in that respect.  YMMV.

You can view the tags before installing the package, and discover the
windowing toolkit used is GTK.

The fact that umit is a *graphical* frontend is IMHO the important thing
here, not the toolkit used.

Anyway, as you said, YMMV.

--
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Resistance is futile, you will be garbage collected.


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Re: Use bz2 not gz for orig.tar ?

[Darren Salt]

I demand that Miriam Ruiz may or may not have written...

[snip]
> Compression time would be 10 times more (1000% the time it takes now).

No; either that's 1100%, or you mean 10 times as much.

[snip]
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| RISC OS, Linux | youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | Northumberland | Army
| + Output *more* particulate pollutants.  BUFFER AGAINST GLOBAL WARMING.

Beware of Bigfoot!


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Re: Debian Development environments.

[Andrea Bolognani]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 14:28:50 +0100
Luis Matos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > Since this inquiry is valid however, it seems to me that it would make
> > sense the think about some CDD specialised for developers.
>
> This would be very nice ... maybe some livecd's? ( it does not need
> necessarilly to be cdd)

I think a live CD aimed at developers would be quite useless.
But feel free to correct me.

--
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Re: debian-devel-digest Digest V2007 #198

[Howard Young]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





debian-devel-digest Digest  Volume 2007 : Issue 198

Today's Topics:
  Draft spec for new dpkg "triggers" f  [ Ian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ]
  



Some fairly useless comments by me about dpkg features (sorry).

To understand your specification sufficiently I would need to read it 
through a few more times at least as it seems quite involved.


I use the current version of DPKG but have never written a 'package' 
from scratch just built others.
I have experience of writing 'packages' from scratch on the Ms 
platforms. The WixMSI. packager that I used had a fair number of 
features but my main concern when packaging applications was that I did 
not have to waste time learning lots of things just to put it in the 
best format and I did not need to know much about eventualities on 
target systems.
Looking at what you have written I suppose it is not really a low level 
enough 'comment'? But for me, it is important to know that it is not 
difficult and needy of much maintenance from version to version of a 
program and perhaps more importantly diversion to diversion where 
platforms are concerned.


It occurred to me that something which has always caused me a little 
concern on Linux is the difference in file locations between 
distributions and even branches. I have trouble keeping track of files 
on Linux where in the last years of using Windows at home I used to 
actually delete large chunks of the operating systems files just because 
I knew they were not required for what I wanted. Obviously it is not a 
fair comparison because if Linux included well known 'generally useless' 
files then I would be doing the same but I have to say it seems a little 
trickier deleting files in case they are there for compatibility 
purposes or some such thing.
No doubt there are programs out there that I have not heard of that are 
able to clean and tidy symlinks and obsoleted not required files but 
personally I would feel far better if the package system did this not 
some script or Windows esque package with a fancy title like "SymKiller" 
or some such thing.
Sometimes I find it difficult to keep track of what is going on with 
requirements installed and requirements not removed on de install of the 
same. Typically this happens most when I am performing dist-upgrade or 
upgrade using apt. After two months without an upgrade it is not easy to 
remember some package that need not have been there had it not been for 
a package that is now to be de installed post an upgrade that cannot 
retain or no longer requires that previously required package.


Probably the 'response to this response' is that I should learn better 
how to use APT/DPKG and also be more responsible?
Amongst the other things done with computers it would be better if there 
were some way to simplify this.


The only thing that comes to mind is some sort of templates mechanism, 
or rather? install lists.
This from the thinking that generally when I set a system up I install 
particular packages so if I could run a cleanup that reverted back to 
these packages and displayed everything else that was not really part of 
the list so that I could review why it was there and then remove it.


Other concepts for this are that I often use networked computers and on 
a theme of the package manager it might be useful from my point of view 
to manage the packages for a network segment and decide which computer 
is which.
For instance, postfix is on server a which is stable. The config files 
are another matter perhaps on an share. Some problem turns up so I 
decide to move postfix to server b. dpkg --migrate or dpkg --move mta 
--source server a --target server b. or some such nonsense?


--migrate might copy across configuration files (which are links to the 
network share anyway) while sending a purge to server a after server b 
has reported up and running.
--move might try to just move the binaries or sources complete with 
configurations to the new server.


then for multiple distribution networks or specialised setups of debian 
such as on servers with LVM on many shares consider:
for --migrate the ability of dpkg to relocate the configuration files 
being handed over (if the locations were for some reason different) is 
one issue.

for --move then placement of everything.

I am not sure really if there is much advantage to this or how complex 
it would be to integrate into the design but I hoped it might be useful 
to read for someone,




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Re: Mozilla renames: is Debian the only one?

[Lawrence Williams]

On April 12, 2007 01:10:53 pm Sune Vuorela wrote:
> On 2007-04-12, Lawrence Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On April 12, 2007 11:34:00 am Chris Lamb wrote:
> >> Pierre THIERRY wrote:
> >> > If not, which ones?
> >>
> >> + http://www.gnewsense.org/  ?
> >
> > Gentoo has done renames of Mozilla products such as Firefox too.
>
> I asked one of my local gentoo devs - and he says "no - it is not
> rebranded/renamed"
>
> /Sune


My mistake. I was thinking of Bon Echo, the FF2 beta name :)

- Lawrence


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Re: Use bz2 not gz for orig.tar ?

[Andreas Metzler]

Don Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Apr 2007, Drew Parsons wrote:
>> Do we have plans for lenny to enable the use of bzip2 instead of gzip
>> for the upstream orig.tar source tarballs?  Does dpkg/apt support this
>> already or has this already been thought about?
[...]
> A more compelling reason is that some upstreams only distribute in
> bz2, and this would enable us to distribute the actual upstream
> version without repacking.
[...]

AOL!!!

See . Lenny's dpkg-source can already exctract
foo_0.5.9-1.diff.gz  foo_0.5.9-1.dsc foo_0.5.9.orig.tar.bz2, however
the coresponding support for generating these beasts in
dpkg-buildpackage is missing.

cu andreas
-- 
`What a good friend you are to him, Dr. Maturin. His other friends are
so grateful to you.'
`I sew his ears on from time to time, sure'


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Re: Debian Development environments.

[Pierre THIERRY]

Scribit Andrea Bolognani dies 12/04/2007 hora 18:01:
> I think a live CD aimed at developers would be quite useless.  But
> feel free to correct me.

The Université Jussieu (Paris) found it useful. They distribute a live
CD based on Knoppix to the students, called Juppix:

http://www.pps.jussieu.fr/~jch/software/juppix/

Not every developer knows how to find the packages that would satisfy
his needs. We should care about our users if we can help, and having
some tasks or meta-packages about programming would be quite useful.

Maybe we need something more elaborate for them to choose, with
questions like:

What environments are you targetting:
- GTK+
- Qt
- like I care

What languages do you want to use:
- C
- C++
- Perl
- Python
- Common Lisp
- etc.

Curiously,
Pierre
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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Tshepang Lekhonkhobe]

On 4/12/07, Petter Reinholdtsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Looking at the submission numbers from
http://popcon.debian.org/>, I am happy to report that the number
of Etch installations is increasing fast.  Here are the number of
submissions collected by popularity-contest, with the increment.  It
is easy to see when Etch was released.

  date  submissions change
  2007-04-03 32311 +55
  2007-04-04 32400 +89
  2007-04-05 32504+104
  2007-04-06 32525 +21
  2007-04-07 32595 +70
  2007-04-08 32722+127
  2007-04-09 33639+917
  2007-04-10 34530+891
  2007-04-11 35420+890

Now I just wonder how long the rate of increase will keep up. :)


Please keep on sending these interesting stats, perhaps once-per-week,
to some blog or some mailing list. I'll be real glad. Thanks...


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Re: Mozilla renames: is Debian the only one?

[Margarita Manterola]

On 4/12/07, Sune Vuorela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On 2007-04-12, Lawrence Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gentoo has done renames of Mozilla products such as Firefox too.
I asked one of my local gentoo devs - and he says "no - it is not
rebranded/renamed"


It's a USE flag called "mozbranding".  It lets the user choose wether
they want to rebrand it (to Bon Echo) or not.

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Marga


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Re: Debian Buzz and Rex binary packages

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 11:01:10PM +0200, Cherubini Enrico wrote:
> I have the 1995 InfoMagic 5 cd set, and it contains Debian 1.0 with .deb
> packages and of course install floppy images :)
> 
> Maybe I'll try it in some qemu/xen virtual system :)
> 
> home:/cdrom/debian/debian-1.0# du -s binary/
> 88290   binary/

Wasn't that the CD that caused debian to have to skip 1.0 because some
idiots went and took the development code and called it a release?  In
other words, _not_ an official debian release?

--
Len Sorensen


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Re: Debian Buzz and Rex binary packages

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 08:10:43AM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> No, binaries were provided for all official releases (buzz/1.1 onwards).
> There was an installer (known as boot-floppies); its appearance was
> fairly similar from buzz right through to woody when it was retired.
> 
> There was no apt and no source dependencies, and early on even a
> different source package format, but there's still a lot of similarity.

OK.  I hadn't looked at it that carefully, since I didn't use debian
until 2.0.

--
Len Sorensen


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Re: Use bz2 not gz for orig.tar ?

[Drew Parsons]

On Thu, 2007-04-12 at 10:12 +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 12:12:00PM +1000, Drew Parsons wrote:
> > Do we have plans for lenny to enable the use of bzip2 instead of gzip
> > for the upstream orig.tar source tarballs?  Does dpkg/apt support this
> > already or has this already been thought about?
> > 
> > This would reduce our archive size by some 20% if all packages moved to
> > bzip2.
> 
> Why not lzma?  It reduces size even more 

It's the same question really. "Do we want to move on from gz?"  

I guess bzip2 is more widely known than lzma, that is we're more likely
to directly use upstream's tarballs by adding bzip2 support. Certainly
X.org releases tarballs both gz and bz2 compressed.

But the question could be made more general.  Why do we explicitly
enforce gz compression at the moment, why couldn't we support *any*
compression scheme that upstream developer or Debian maintainer might
care to use?  (perhaps the CPU arguments answer this sufficiently,
though I'm not convinced by them myself).

Drew


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Re: 64-bit transition deadline (Re: Etch in the hands of the Stable Release Managers)

[Margarita Manterola]

On 4/12/07, Robert Millan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

This thread has been moved from debian-release already.


That's because debian-release is not a discussion list, it's only for
coordination of the release.


We're discussing a question that could affect decisions on the lenny release 
schedule.


The release schedule will not be affected by whatever ESR says in his essays.

Debian already includes 64bit architectures in its release, so if you
want to use them, you already have them.  The schedule of the next
release shouldn't be affected by how many people buy new 64bit
machines, they'll be able to use Etch on them.


Which list is appropiate for that?


No Debian-list is appropiate for discussing how many win64 games are
out there, nor how easy it is to program in Visual Basic for
non-developers, nor for explaining the methods that Windows uses to
make games run faster, nor for discussing the costs of running
Microsoft Office.

You've already raised your concern about having a release in 18
months.  I think that your 64bit "deadline" is as valid a reason as
someone saying "I don't want to be running 2006's GNOME in 2009", or
someone else saying "I want Debian Stable to include foo, bar, and
baz, which are currently only in Testing"

You don't need to keep an off-topic thread alive so that your reasons are heard.

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Marga


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Re: Debian Development environments.

[Andrea Bolognani]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 19:18:27 +0200
Pierre THIERRY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > I think a live CD aimed at developers would be quite useless.  But
> > feel free to correct me.
>
> The Université Jussieu (Paris) found it useful. They distribute a live
> CD based on Knoppix to the students, called Juppix:
>
> http://www.pps.jussieu.fr/~jch/software/juppix/
>
> Not every developer knows how to find the packages that would satisfy
> his needs. We should care about our users if we can help, and having
> some tasks or meta-packages about programming would be quite useful.

Still I don't see the advantage of having a complete development
environment on a live CD. Who is supposed to use this?

I agree that some developing tasks would be useful, though.

--
KiyuKo 
Resistance is futile, you will be garbage collected.


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Re: Debian Development environments.

[Julien Cristau]

On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 20:25:35 +0200, Andrea Bolognani wrote:

> Still I don't see the advantage of having a complete development
> environment on a live CD. Who is supposed to use this?
> 
Students, who typically only have a windows install at home.  It's much
easier (for them and for the teachers) to give them a live cd with
everything they might need for their university projects (at least in
the first few years) than to give them instructions to get a useful
development environment under windows.

Cheers,
Julien


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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Bart Martens]

On Thu, 2007-04-12 at 11:31 +0200, Fabio Tranchitella wrote:
> * 2007-04-12 11:29, Joey Hess wrote:
> > I wonder if it would be reasonable to make d-i hit one of two urls
> > depending on whether the user chose to enable popcon, and count the
> > results.
> 
> Isn't this a violation of user's privacy? If the user hitted `No', this
> really means that he doesn't want to call home.

I agree that the answer "no" to popcon should not produce any network
traffic.



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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Bart Martens]

On Thu, 2007-04-12 at 10:39 +, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
> However, changing the popcon debconf question to something like the
> following might be an acceptable compromise:
> 
> Would you like to participate in the Debian package popularity
> contest meter? Blah blah blah. You may also choose to only
> report once that you have installed this release of Debian on a
> new machine. In that case no other information from you or your
> machine gets recorded.
> 
> [ ] No, I do not want to participate at all.
> [ ] I want to report once that I have installed Debian.
> [ ] I want to participate in the package popularity contest.

Good idea.



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Re: Debian Development environments.

[Andrea Bolognani]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:27:25 +0200
Julien Cristau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 20:25:35 +0200, Andrea Bolognani wrote:
>
> > Still I don't see the advantage of having a complete development
> > environment on a live CD. Who is supposed to use this?
> >
> Students, who typically only have a windows install at home.  It's much
> easier (for them and for the teachers) to give them a live cd with
> everything they might need for their university projects (at least in
> the first few years) than to give them instructions to get a useful
> development environment under windows.

You convinced me ;)

(I prefer the approach they use in my university: it's like "GNU/Linux is
the reference operating system in this course, so if you don't have it
installed, you're better installing it quickly!" But I'm going OT now :)

--
KiyuKo 
Resistance is futile, you will be garbage collected.


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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Bart Martens]

On Thu, 2007-04-12 at 17:32 +0200, gregor herrmann wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 15:22:37 +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
> 
> > > dmidecode output is a big problem.  It includes machine UUID and serial
> > > numbers.
> > Yes.
> > Perhaps we only want to collect a subset of that information, or at
> > least warn the admin about the issues.
> 
> I'd suggest to show the person in front of the computer which data
> would be sent and get their approval before actually sending them.

Yes, good idea.  This feels similar to "reportbug" offering a chance to
edit the e-mail before sending.  This excludes any discussion about
privacy.



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Re: Debian Development environments.

[Luis Matos]

Qui, 2007-04-12 às 20:40 +0200, Andrea Bolognani escreveu:
> On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:27:25 +0200
> Julien Cristau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 20:25:35 +0200, Andrea Bolognani wrote:
> >
> > > Still I don't see the advantage of having a complete development
> > > environment on a live CD. Who is supposed to use this?
> > >
> > Students, who typically only have a windows install at home.  It's much
> > easier (for them and for the teachers) to give them a live cd with
> > everything they might need for their university projects (at least in
> > the first few years) than to give them instructions to get a useful
> > development environment under windows.
> 
> You convinced me ;)
> 
> (I prefer the approach they use in my university: it's like "GNU/Linux is
> the reference operating system in this course, so if you don't have it
> installed, you're better installing it quickly!" But I'm going OT now :)

To add to this, the live cd can be installed in the hard drive.
So, if a windows developer grabs the C# debian development disk and
checks that it's programs really work in debian, he will gradually
change.

We can make these cd's easilly available ( thanks to the live project
people ) because they can be built with a list of packages. One we have
some development meta-packages, we can make these cd's with tasksel's
desktop task + devel metapackages.

So i can go to my "industrial informatics" teacher a show him that he
can develop visual basic applications in linux.
> 
> --
> KiyuKo 
> Resistance is futile, you will be garbage collected.


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samba crashing in debian etch

[Frederico Rodrigues Abraham]

Hi. I have recently installed debian etch from scratch, but samba is 
crashing.
I have installed the samba-dbg package but i'm not getting a stack trace 
in the samba panic-action.

Have i done anything wrong?

I get this e-mail:
The Samba 'panic action' script, /usr/share/samba/panic-action,
was called for PID 3711 (/usr/sbin/smbd).

This means there was a problem with the program, such as a segfault.
Below is a backtrace for this process generated with gdb, which shows
the state of the program at the time the error occurred.  The Samba log
files may contain additional information about the problem.

If the problem persists, you are encouraged to first install the
samba-dbg package, which contains the debugging symbols for the Samba
binaries.  Then submit the provided information as a bug report to
Debian.  For information about the procedure for submitting bug reports,
please see http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting or the reportbug(1)
manual page.

Using host libthread_db library "/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libthread_db.so.1".
[Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled]
[New Thread -1212721472 (LWP 3711)]
0xb7f9d410 in ?? ()
#0  0xb7f9d410 in ?? ()
#1  0x0001 in ?? ()
#2  0x in ?? ()

Greetings,
-- Fred


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Re: 64-bit transition deadline (Re: Etch in the hands of the Stable Release Managers)

[Robert Millan]

On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 03:16:55PM -0300, Margarita Manterola wrote:
> >We're discussing a question that could affect decisions on the lenny 
> >release schedule.
> 
> The release schedule will not be affected by whatever ESR says in his 
> essays.

Why does the essay's authorship matter?

> Debian already includes 64bit architectures in its release, so if you
> want to use them, you already have them. The schedule of the next
> release shouldn't be affected by how many people buy new 64bit
> machines, they'll be able to use Etch on them.

How is this related with the question we were discussing?

> No Debian-list is appropiate for discussing how many win64 games are
> out there, nor how easy it is to program in Visual Basic for
> non-developers, nor for explaining the methods that Windows uses to
> make games run faster, nor for discussing the costs of running
> Microsoft Office.

You're mixing relevant things with irrelevant things here.  I could explain
why some of these are relevant, but I already did.  If you really want to
know (although by your tone I suspect you don't), please read the thread again.

As for those that aren't relevant, don't blame it on me.  I didn't start
talking about Visual Basic or Microsoft Office.

> You've already raised your concern about having a release in 18
> months.

Correct.

> I think that your 64bit "deadline" is as valid a reason as
> someone saying "I don't want to be running 2006's GNOME in 2009", or
> someone else saying "I want Debian Stable to include foo, bar, and
> baz, which are currently only in Testing"

Note that you haven't explained why you think that.  If you're not going to
explain (and that's ok with me), please do at least acknowledge that you're
just not interested in this discussion at all.

> You don't need to keep an off-topic thread alive so that your reasons are 
> heard.

Correct.  My reasons have already been heard and I'm perfectly happy.  I'm
sorry that you were bothered by my actions, though, as I did it with the
best of my intentions, not to piss off anybody.

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Robert Millan

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Re: Use bz2 not gz for orig.tar ?

[Robert Millan]

On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 10:33:46AM +0200, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> According to the benchmarks in http://www.linuks.mine.nu/sizematters/ , the
> size of the archive would be nearly 30% smaller, but the decompression would
> be 5 times slower, meaning that it would take 500% the time it takes now to
> uncompress the archives. Compression time would be 10 times more (1000% the
> time it takes now). I wonder if that would be suitable for smaller systems.

Yeah, but decompression is still faster than bzip2 though.

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Re: Use bz2 not gz for orig.tar ?

[Robert Millan]

On Fri, Apr 13, 2007 at 03:38:56AM +1000, Drew Parsons wrote:
> > Why not lzma?  It reduces size even more 
> 
> It's the same question really. "Do we want to move on from gz?"  
> 
> I guess bzip2 is more widely known than lzma, that is we're more likely
> to directly use upstream's tarballs by adding bzip2 support. Certainly
> X.org releases tarballs both gz and bz2 compressed.
> 
> But the question could be made more general.  Why do we explicitly
> enforce gz compression at the moment, why couldn't we support *any*
> compression scheme that upstream developer or Debian maintainer might
> care to use?  (perhaps the CPU arguments answer this sufficiently,
> though I'm not convinced by them myself).

I think binaries are more important, since they're unpacked an order of
magnitude more times than source.

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Re: Use bz2 not gz for orig.tar ?

[Luis Matos]

Qui, 2007-04-12 às 21:03 +0200, Robert Millan escreveu:
> On Fri, Apr 13, 2007 at 03:38:56AM +1000, Drew Parsons wrote:
> > > Why not lzma?  It reduces size even more 
> > 
> > It's the same question really. "Do we want to move on from gz?"  
> > 
> > I guess bzip2 is more widely known than lzma, that is we're more likely
> > to directly use upstream's tarballs by adding bzip2 support. Certainly
> > X.org releases tarballs both gz and bz2 compressed.
> > 
> > But the question could be made more general.  Why do we explicitly
> > enforce gz compression at the moment, why couldn't we support *any*
> > compression scheme that upstream developer or Debian maintainer might
> > care to use?  (perhaps the CPU arguments answer this sufficiently,
> > though I'm not convinced by them myself).
> 
> I think binaries are more important, since they're unpacked an order of
> magnitude more times than source.

agreed ... faster in binaries, better in source.
> 
> -- 
> Robert Millan
> 
> My spam trap is [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Note: this address is only intended
> for spam harvesters.  Writing to it will get you added to my black list.
> 
> 


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Re: Use bz2 not gz for orig.tar ?

[Robert Millan]

On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 08:38:34AM +, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
> On to, 2007-04-12 at 10:12 +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
> > On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 12:12:00PM +1000, Drew Parsons wrote:
> > > This would reduce our archive size by some 20% if all packages moved to
> > > bzip2.
> > 
> > Why not lzma?  It reduces size even more and doesn't suffer from the "all 
> > our
> > code belongs to propietary programs" licensing curse.
> 
> I'm ignorant of compression programs. What licensing curse are you
> referring to here?

Non-copylefted license.

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Re: samba crashing in debian etch

[Thomas Viehmann]

Hi Fred,

Frederico Rodrigues Abraham wrote:
> I have recently installed debian etch from scratch, but samba is
> crashing.

thank you for contacting us with your issue. In order to alert the
people that are most likely to be able to help you, it would be best if
you filed a bug report for the samba Debian package.
You could do this either via the "reportbug" program that is likely
installed on your Debian system guides you through the process or send a
mail that takes the form described at
  http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
If you're unsure how to put together such a the mail, you could also use
"reportbug -p" and cut and paste its output.

Best

Thomas
-- 
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Re: Use bz2 not gz for orig.tar ?

[Robert Millan]

On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 09:07:57PM +0100, Luis Matos wrote:
> Qui, 2007-04-12 às 21:03 +0200, Robert Millan escreveu:
> > On Fri, Apr 13, 2007 at 03:38:56AM +1000, Drew Parsons wrote:
> > > > Why not lzma?  It reduces size even more 
> > > 
> > > It's the same question really. "Do we want to move on from gz?"  
> > > 
> > > I guess bzip2 is more widely known than lzma, that is we're more likely
> > > to directly use upstream's tarballs by adding bzip2 support. Certainly
> > > X.org releases tarballs both gz and bz2 compressed.
> > > 
> > > But the question could be made more general.  Why do we explicitly
> > > enforce gz compression at the moment, why couldn't we support *any*
> > > compression scheme that upstream developer or Debian maintainer might
> > > care to use?  (perhaps the CPU arguments answer this sufficiently,
> > > though I'm not convinced by them myself).
> > 
> > I think binaries are more important, since they're unpacked an order of
> > magnitude more times than source.
> 
> agreed ... faster in binaries, better in source.

I didn't really mean that (although it was poorly expressed).  I mean that
we should be more concerned about binaries than about source.

I think compression ratio is better than speed in most cases.  With better
compressed packages we save archive space, users save a lot of bandwidth, and
the first CD/DVD can hold more stuff.  That's important too.

-- 
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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Robert Millan]

On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 01:49:19PM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
> 
> Actually, I've considered adding hardware reporting to popcon, using a
> separate question (or more options, not sure which), and hardware
> reports do not need to be sent as often as package usage.  Such
> report-once setting should report the output of lsmod, lspci,
> dmidecode, lsusb etc, to allow us to know what hardware is in use out
> there.

I would be very interested in an i386-only feature to report wether the CPU
is 64-bit capable (I have code in win32-loader with this functionality).

I'm not sure how this would fit in your client/server protocol, but I can
easily grab the code from win32-loader and integrate it if you tell me.

Want a bug report?

-- 
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for spam harvesters.  Writing to it will get you added to my black list.


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Building i386 binaries on ia64.

[Rob Andrews]

Hi all,

I notice ia64 has ia32-libs and ia32-libs-dev, but I can't seem to find a
compiler to build i386 binaries.

The reason being is that I want to add support for the Debian nspluginwrapper
package to run on ia64 machines, since they are biarch and have ia32-libs
and ia32-libs-gtk.

If there isn't a gcc with target i386 on ia64, why is there an ia32-libs-dev
package? I'm quite curious!

thanks,
rob

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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Kurt Roeckx]

On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 09:24:38PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 01:49:19PM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
> > 
> > Actually, I've considered adding hardware reporting to popcon, using a
> > separate question (or more options, not sure which), and hardware
> > reports do not need to be sent as often as package usage.  Such
> > report-once setting should report the output of lsmod, lspci,
> > dmidecode, lsusb etc, to allow us to know what hardware is in use out
> > there.
> 
> I would be very interested in an i386-only feature to report wether the CPU
> is 64-bit capable (I have code in win32-loader with this functionality).
> 
> I'm not sure how this would fit in your client/server protocol, but I can
> easily grab the code from win32-loader and integrate it if you tell me.

You can also see this by looking at /proc/cpuinfo looking for "lm" in
flags.


Kurt


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Re: /etc/udev/rules.d non-symlinks

[Joey Hess]

Marco d'Itri wrote:
> It's OK, I planned to discuss this after the release.
> Experience showed that generally other packages do not need an easy way
> to disable their whole rules files, so I think we can conclude that
> usage of symlinks can be restricted to some of udev's own files and
> eventually packages with special needs.
> Do we need special code to move the conffiles on upgrades (and only do
> that if the symlink does not exist)?

Code such as the following is needed to deal with moving the conffile
and replacing the symlink with the conffile:

preinst:

if [ "$1" = install ] || [ "$1" = upgrade ]; then
if [ -e /etc/udev/#FILE# ]; then
if [ "`md5sum \"/etc/udev/#FILE#\" | sed -e \"s/ .*//\"`" = \
 "`sed -n -e \"/^Conffiles:/,/^[^ ]/{' 
/etc/udev/#FILE#'{s/.* //;p}}\" /var/lib/dpkg/status`" ]
then
rm -f /etc/udev/#FILE#
fi
fi
if [ -L /etc/udev/rules.d/#PRIO##FILE# ]; then
rm -f /etc/udev/rules.d/#PRIO##FILE#
fi
fi

postinst:

if [ "$1" = configure ]; then
if [ -e /etc/udev/#FILE# ]; then
echo "Preserving user changes to /etc/udev/rules.d/#PRIO##FILE# 
..."
if [ -e /etc/udev/rules.d/#PRIO##FILE# ]; then
mv -f /etc/udev/rules.d/#PRIO##FILE# 
/etc/udev/rules.d/#PRIO##FILE#.dpkg-new
fi
mv -f /etc/udev/#FILE# /etc/udev/rules.d/#PRIO##FILE#
fi
fi

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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Joey Hess]

Lars Wirzenius wrote:
> However, changing the popcon debconf question to something like the
> following might be an acceptable compromise:

Farid not, it might result in slightly more installations being
reported, but it will not let us calculate the approximate total number
of new installations, since most people will still choose the default
"No", and we will still have no good number for what percentage don't.

-- 
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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

[Robert Millan]
> I would be very interested in an i386-only feature to report wether
> the CPU is 64-bit capable (I have code in win32-loader with this
> functionality).
> 
> I'm not sure how this would fit in your client/server protocol, but I can
> easily grab the code from win32-loader and integrate it if you tell me.

Right.  This sound like something to put in the subarch reporting tool
I have wanted a long time.  We use 'dpkg
--print-installation-architecture' to report architecture, but there
is no similar tool to report sub-architecture.  Can you provide some
'subarch' program/package to report this information?  I do not want
to have the code to detect it in popularity-contest, but would be
interested in reporting the output from some other package if it
exist.

> Want a bug report?

I know libdebian-installer have some subarch detection code.  If it
would provide a user space package in the installed system, I would be
very happy. :)

Friendly,
-- 
Petter Reinholdtsen


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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Robert Millan]

On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 09:32:33PM +0200, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> > 
> > I would be very interested in an i386-only feature to report wether the CPU
> > is 64-bit capable (I have code in win32-loader with this functionality).
> > 
> > I'm not sure how this would fit in your client/server protocol, but I can
> > easily grab the code from win32-loader and integrate it if you tell me.
> 
> You can also see this by looking at /proc/cpuinfo looking for "lm" in
> flags.

Sounds good.  Maybe we could just include the whole cpuinfo ?

-- 
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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 04/12/07 14:32, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
[snip]
> 
> You can also see this by looking at /proc/cpuinfo looking for "lm" in
> flags.

Does lahf_lm count?

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

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kHT1S+fIjNvVxiGs2W5Lfq8=
=skEN
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Florian Weimer]

* Ron Johnson:

> On 04/12/07 14:32, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> [snip]
>> 
>> You can also see this by looking at /proc/cpuinfo looking for "lm" in
>> flags.
>
> Does lahf_lm count?

The file should also list "lm" earlier on the same line.


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Re: Mozilla renames: is Debian the only one?

[Noah Meyerhans]

On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 02:27:51PM -0300, Margarita Manterola wrote:
> >> Gentoo has done renames of Mozilla products such as Firefox too.
> >I asked one of my local gentoo devs - and he says "no - it is not
> >rebranded/renamed"
> 
> It's a USE flag called "mozbranding".  It lets the user choose wether
> they want to rebrand it (to Bon Echo) or not.

NetBSD does something similar in their pkgsrc collection.  The default
uses Bon Echo, but it can be overridden to use the Mozilla branded
names.

noah



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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 04/12/07 15:14, Florian Weimer wrote:
> * Ron Johnson:
> 
>> On 04/12/07 14:32, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
>> [snip]
>>> You can also see this by looking at /proc/cpuinfo looking for "lm" in
>>> flags.
>> Does lahf_lm count?
> 
> The file should also list "lm" earlier on the same line.

Oh well, I guess my Sempron doesn't have that capability.


- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFGHpagS9HxQb37XmcRAtdNAKDHpxsVuyrLK0Bgiu4/YCTIk6NiwQCfZhep
dKi2nFI7UEWUKcfKHDsx4kU=
=2gdP
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: 64-bit transition deadline (Re: Etch in the hands of the Stable Release Managers)

[Jim Crilly]

On 04/10/07 10:19:02PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 06:39:16PM -0400, Jim Crilly wrote:
> > And don't forget games. Game developers will start releasing 64-bit binaries
> > and gamers will eat them up just because 64 > 32. So the Win64 market will
> > have a fair amount of users in the not too distant future.
> 
> Gamers can try anything they like, be it win64 or *-linux-gnu.  But if it
> turns out that most of their hardware doesn't work with it, that's the end
> of their adventure.  In the past years we have improved a lot on this area,
> but win64 is basicaly starting now.  Do you see microsoft reverse-engineering
> every printer, scanner, joystick, etc that users bought without win64
> drivers?  They'll have to either do that, or wait untill all these hardware
> becomes obsolete and is replaced.
> 

Well gamers are also the least likely to own hardware without drivers
because they're always buying new stuff. And now that Vista's been released
any manufacturer wanting to support it will also have to release 64-bit
drivers to get WHQL certification so 64-bit Windows drivers won't be an
issue for long. No doubt we have more, higher quality drivers for
mainstream hardware but unless WINE/Cedega makes some huge strides in the
very near future most gamers' Win64 adventures will continue for a long
time. I guess there's also the chance that Mono will be an option too if
game developers start targeting .Net.

Jim.


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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña]

On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 05:29:13AM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
> > Looking at the submission numbers from
> > http://popcon.debian.org/>, I am happy to report that the number
> > of Etch installations is increasing fast.  Here are the number of
> > submissions collected by popularity-contest, with the increment.  It
> > is easy to see when Etch was released.
> 
> Now if we only knew what percentage of users take the manual action
> needed to answer Yes to the "enable popcon" question...

IMHO there are some ways we could track get some better numbers for that. 

Given the fact that "many" users are using security.debian.org as the default
security mirror, that etch enables it by default (there were some previous
releases that didn't IIRC) and that *we* have control over those servers'
logs we could count the number of downloads of the Packages files from the
official security mirrors [1]. 

That would give us an estimate of new installations (or upgrades to etch), 
since apt will not download the Package file after installation (it will go
for the pdiffs as the security archive should not change that much, at least
not for a few months) [2]. 

This could be useful to have better estimates on how many installations have
been "recently" made. Track this after the release, correlate with popcon
submissions and you have better data to get an approximate percentage 
of users not registering for popcon. You can even get approximate results of
*real* systems and number of systems behind NATed addresses.

The only caveat I can think of (but there might be others) is that it would
not be possible to properly count installations that are using
corporate (or ISP's) caching proxies (in somecases those are transparent to
the end users)

You would still will not be able to count installations that are not Internet
connected. But you are not going to be able to count them through any other
mechanisms (not even through the "report once" mechanism that Lars suggested)

Regards

Javier


[1] Official mirrors could also be used, but getting the logs from the
different admins would be rather difficult.

[2] Unless he removes the Packages file manually from his system, however, in
which case it would be downloaded again.


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Shouldn't [EMAIL PROTECTED] be more liberal on accepting mail?

[Nikita V. Youshchenko]

Looks like with current setup, [EMAIL PROTECTED] does not accept 
mail from domain that does not exist for the outside world.

This looks suboptimal for me: why not accept all mail that looks like a 
popcon report?

I know that it is possible to do local setup such as mail will look more 
legitimate for outside checkers. But shouldn't popcon be as transparent as 
possible?


--  Forwarded mail  --

Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
Date: 12 апреля 2007 07:47
From: Mail Delivery System <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SMTP error from remote mailer after end of data:
host gluck.debian.org [192.25.206.10]: 550 Administrative prohibition

-- This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. --

Return-path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Received: from Debian-exim by zigzag.lvk.cs.msu.su with spam-scanned (Exim
 4.50) id 1HbqHk-0002Sn-EJ
for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:47:50 +0400
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7-deb (2006-10-05) on
zigzag.lvk.cs.msu.su
X-Spam-Level:
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NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=ham version=3.1.7-deb
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by zigzag.lvk.cs.msu.su with smtp (Exim 4.50)
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for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:47:48 +0400
Received: (nullmailer pid 2611 invoked by uid 0);
Thu, 12 Apr 2007 03:47:47 -
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: popularity-contest submission
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:47:47 +0400
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

POPULARITY-CONTEST-0 TIME:1176349666 ID:77bbdcc209324e9d9580fa564d6e66b5
 ARCH:i386 POPCONVER:1.41 1176349660 1175154185 login /bin/su
1176349660 1175153760 coreutils /usr/bin/basename
1176349660 1175154162 bash /bin/sh
.


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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña]

On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 07:25:02PM +0200, Tshepang Lekhonkhobe wrote:
> Please keep on sending these interesting stats, perhaps once-per-week,
> to some blog or some mailing list. I'll be real glad. Thanks...

Better yet, set up a MRTG-like graph. Everybody loves fancy graphs and they
are really useful in presentations at conferences :)

Javie


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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Fri, Apr 13, 2007 at 12:21:09AM +0200, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote:
> 
> The only caveat I can think of (but there might be others) is that it would
> not be possible to properly count installations that are using
> corporate (or ISP's) caching proxies (in somecases those are transparent to
> the end users)
> 
I think that is the principal problem.  I use apt-proxy and have about a
dozen machines (counting virtual machines) that all hit that one
apt-proxy.

I am not sure how best to solve that problem.

Regards,

-Roberto

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http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
http://www.connexer.com


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"position"

[michael.ford14]

Greetings, Kindly advice of the way to submit for an Arabic linguist position 
or cultural adviser within USA. Thanks and regards Michael Ford 

Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Joey Hess]

Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote:
> Better yet, set up a MRTG-like graph. Everybody loves fancy graphs and they
> are really useful in presentations at conferences :)

http://popcon.debian.org/stat/sub-i386.png

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Re: Use bz2 not gz for orig.tar ?

[Guillem Jover]

On Thu, 2007-04-12 at 12:12:00 +1000, Drew Parsons wrote:
> Do we have plans for lenny to enable the use of bzip2 instead of gzip
> for the upstream orig.tar source tarballs?  Does dpkg/apt support this
> already or has this already been thought about?

As other people have replied etch's dpkg supports unpacking source
and binary packages with gzip, bzip2 and lzma. The compression support
will probably be added in 1.14.1 or so alongisde Wig&Pen. There's few
items still pending before the 1.14.0 release.

regards,
guillem


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Re: Use bz2 not gz for orig.tar ?

[Drew Parsons]

On Thu, 2007-04-12 at 21:03 +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 13, 2007 at 03:38:56AM +1000, Drew Parsons wrote:
> > > Why not lzma?  It reduces size even more 
> > 
> > It's the same question really. "Do we want to move on from gz?"  
> > 
> > I guess bzip2 is more widely known than lzma, that is we're more likely
> > to directly use upstream's tarballs by adding bzip2 support. Certainly
> > X.org releases tarballs both gz and bz2 compressed.
> > 
> > But the question could be made more general.  Why do we explicitly
> > enforce gz compression at the moment, why couldn't we support *any*
> > compression scheme that upstream developer or Debian maintainer might
> > care to use?  (perhaps the CPU arguments answer this sufficiently,
> > though I'm not convinced by them myself).
> 
> I think binaries are more important, since they're unpacked an order of
> magnitude more times than source.
> 

Ooh, you're referring to the compression used in the .deb package itself
here, aren't you?  I wasn't thinking about that, but in terms of
reducing archive space it makes sense to consider that as well.

Drew


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Re: samba crashing in debian etch

[Frederico Rodrigues Abraham]

yeah, i can report the bug, but there will be no stack trace, although
samba-dbg is supported to supply these?
Greets
-- Fred

On 4/12/07, Thomas Viehmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Hi Fred,

Frederico Rodrigues Abraham wrote:
> I have recently installed debian etch from scratch, but samba is
> crashing.

thank you for contacting us with your issue. In order to alert the
people that are most likely to be able to help you, it would be best if
you filed a bug report for the samba Debian package.
You could do this either via the "reportbug" program that is likely
installed on your Debian system guides you through the process or send a
mail that takes the form described at
  http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
If you're unsure how to put together such a the mail, you could also use
"reportbug -p" and cut and paste its output.

Best

Thomas
--
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--
   -- Fred

Re: Shouldn't [EMAIL PROTECTED] be more liberal on accepting mail?

[Bart Martens]

On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 02:21 +0400, Nikita V. Youshchenko wrote:
> Looks like with current setup, [EMAIL PROTECTED] does not accept 
> mail from domain that does not exist for the outside world.
> 
> This looks suboptimal for me: why not accept all mail that looks like a 
> popcon report?
> 
> I know that it is possible to do local setup such as mail will look more 
> legitimate for outside checkers. But shouldn't popcon be as transparent as 
> possible?

Another approach could be to prevent this e-mail from being sent when
the e-mail is not setup properly.




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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Mike Hommey]

On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 08:35:50PM +0200, Bart Martens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> On Thu, 2007-04-12 at 17:32 +0200, gregor herrmann wrote:
> > On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 15:22:37 +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
> > 
> > > > dmidecode output is a big problem.  It includes machine UUID and serial
> > > > numbers.
> > > Yes.
> > > Perhaps we only want to collect a subset of that information, or at
> > > least warn the admin about the issues.
> > 
> > I'd suggest to show the person in front of the computer which data
> > would be sent and get their approval before actually sending them.
> 
> Yes, good idea.  This feels similar to "reportbug" offering a chance to
> edit the e-mail before sending.  This excludes any discussion about
> privacy.

It has the risk that the user edits the report an makes it unparseable
by the popcon tools...

Mike


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Work-needing packages report for Apr 13, 2007

[wnpp]

The following is a listing of packages for which help has been requested
through the WNPP (Work-Needing and Prospective Packages) system in the
last week.

Total number of orphaned packages: 397 (new: 26)
Total number of packages offered up for adoption: 82 (new: 2)
Total number of packages requested help for: 38 (new: 0)

Please refer to http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/ for more information.



The following packages have been orphaned:

   agg (#418269), orphaned 4 days ago
 Description: The AntiGrain Geometry graphical toolkit (development
   files)
 Installations reported by Popcon: 49

   arabtex (#418778), orphaned yesterday
 Description: Arabic/Hebrew macros for TeX/LaTeX
 Reverse Depends: texlive-full
 Installations reported by Popcon: 158

   bazaar (#418077), orphaned 6 days ago
 Description: arch-based distributed revision control system
 Reverse Depends: arch-buildpackage baz-load-dirs bazaar-dbg pybaz
   qct svn-arch-mirror xtla
 Installations reported by Popcon: 355

   cmt (#418078), orphaned 6 days ago
 Description: Computer Music Toolkit (cmt) a collection of LADSPA
   plugins
 Reverse Depends: ams jack-rack om-patches
 Installations reported by Popcon: 1089

   config-manager (#418079), orphaned 6 days ago
 Description: manage directories with Arch, CVS, HTTP, FTP and/or
   Subversion
 Installations reported by Popcon: 79

   confluence (#418965), orphaned today
 Description: language for synchronous reactive hardware system
   design
 Installations reported by Popcon: 46

   conquest (#418469), orphaned 3 days ago
 Description: a real-time, multi-player space warfare game (curses
   client)
 Reverse Depends: conquest conquest-gl conquest-server
 Installations reported by Popcon: 203

   gtk-gnutella (#418080), orphaned 6 days ago
 Description: shares files in a peer to peer network
 Installations reported by Popcon: 598

   mail-rfc822-address (#418083), orphaned 6 days ago
 Description: Perl extension for validating email addresses
 Installations reported by Popcon: 36

   net-dns-fingerprint (#418085), orphaned 6 days ago
 Description: library to determine DNS server vendor, product and
   version
 Reverse Depends: fpdns
 Installations reported by Popcon: 123

   nss-mdns (#418086), orphaned 6 days ago
 Description: NSS module for Multicast DNS name resolution
 Reverse Depends: kdnssd
 Installations reported by Popcon: 19419

   pam-http (#418087), orphaned 6 days ago
 Description: a PAM module to authenticate via http/https
 Installations reported by Popcon: 20

   pybaz (#418088), orphaned 6 days ago
 Description: python bindings for the bazaar revision control system
 Reverse Depends: config-manager
 Installations reported by Popcon: 115

   scigraphica (#418807), orphaned yesterday
 Description: Scientific graphics and data manipulation
 Installations reported by Popcon: 50

   spong (#418690), orphaned yesterday
 Description: A systems and network monitoring system
 Reverse Depends: spong-client spong-server spong-www
 Installations reported by Popcon: 53

   ssmping (#418089), orphaned 6 days ago
 Description: check your multicast connectivity
 Installations reported by Popcon: 55

   svg-tt-graph (#418090), orphaned 6 days ago
 Description: create SVG graphs from Perl
 Installations reported by Popcon: 42

   sweep (#418091), orphaned 6 days ago
 Description: An editor for sound samples
 Reverse Depends: sweep-dev
 Installations reported by Popcon: 486

   swh-plugins (#418092), orphaned 6 days ago
 Description: Steve Harris's LADSPA plugins
 Reverse Depends: ams jack-rack jackeq jamin om-patches
 Installations reported by Popcon: 1366

   tap-plugins (#418093), orphaned 6 days ago
 Description: Tom's Audio Processing LADSPA plugins
 Reverse Depends: om-patches
 Installations reported by Popcon: 550

   tspc (#418094), orphaned 6 days ago
 Description: Client to configure an IPv6 tunnel to Hexago's
   migration broker
 Installations reported by Popcon: 114

   uclibc (#418808), orphaned yesterday
 Description: micro C library
 Reverse Depends: libuclibc-dev mkinitrd-cd uclibc-toolchain
 Installations reported by Popcon: 158

   xmaddressbook (#418466), orphaned 3 days ago
 Description: X-based address book
 Installations reported by Popcon: 36

   ytalk (#418367), orphaned 3 days ago
 Description: enhanced talk program
 Installations reported by Popcon: 2008

   zeroconf (#418097), orphaned 6 days ago
 Description: IPv4 link-local address allocator
 Installations reported by Popcon: 561

   zsh30 (#418467), orphaned 3 days ago
 Description: A shell with lots of features
 Reverse Depends: zsh30-static
 Installations repor

Re: Shouldn't [EMAIL PROTECTED] be more liberal on accepting mail?

[Raphael Hertzog]

Hello,

On Fri, 13 Apr 2007, Nikita V. Youshchenko wrote:
> Looks like with current setup, [EMAIL PROTECTED] does not accept 
> mail from domain that does not exist for the outside world.
> 
> This looks suboptimal for me: why not accept all mail that looks like a 
> popcon report?

This has already been reported to the DSA request tracker:
https://rt.debian.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=39

(use guest / readonly to login)

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog

Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux :
http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/


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Re: The number of etch installations is rocketing...

[Florian Weimer]

* Ron Johnson:

> On 04/12/07 15:14, Florian Weimer wrote:
>> * Ron Johnson:
>> 
>>> On 04/12/07 14:32, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
>>> [snip]
 You can also see this by looking at /proc/cpuinfo looking for "lm" in
 flags.
>>> Does lahf_lm count?
>> 
>> The file should also list "lm" earlier on the same line.
>
> Oh well, I guess my Sempron doesn't have that capability.

Can you post your full /proc/cpuinfo file?


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