Re: Bug#291945: eleventh-hour transition for mysql-using packages related to apache

[Francesco Paolo Lovergine]

On Sat, Feb 12, 2005 at 12:39:58AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> 
> > Nice, so we should check that any linked GPL library directly (obviuolsy) or
> > indirectly (with N=1,2,3... levels of indirection) linked against
> > openssl adds the exception.
> 
> No, we should simply not be linking libmysqlclient against OpenSSL.  The
> exemption was needed because there exists software that uses both
> libmysqlclient and libssl, but making libmysqlclient itself use libssl just
> because we now have the exemption will cause licensing problems for
> applications which currently do *not* depend on libssl.
> 

That's clear, I meant simply that if program A links libB which links libC
which links libssl, than both A, libB and libC should add the exception,
isn't it? That's independently from having A using libssl functions
directly or not.

-- 
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#284724: Interpretation of NON-BREAK SPACE

[Alastair McKinstry]

Hi,

I'm investigating #284724, which is about problems caused with NON-BREAK
SPACE.
This is a character (that can be typed as AltGr-Space in the French and
some other keymaps) that looks like a space, but has the added semantics
'don't break a line here', in word processing and display software.

This has uses in e.g. presenting code fragments in documents, where you
want to guarantee that the line is displayed without being line-breaks.
However if you cut-and-paste the code, the NBS character is not
interpreted as a space, so 'ls a' is interpreted by e.g. bash as a
single command, not a command and an argument.

Does anyone have copies (or pointers to free versions of) SUS and any
rulings on this matter? What are developers opinions on this: should
this be treated as a shell (and other scripting language) bug, ie.
should all characters in the class [:space:] be treated as a token
seperator in shells/languages, or just the ASCII SPACE?

Regards
Alastair McKinstry



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Re: please post listing and status of NEW queue

[Thomas Hood]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 01:20:13 +0100, Anibal Monsalve Salazar wrote:
> http://qa.debian.org/~anibal/debian-NEW.html
> 
> The above page is based on previous work done by Peter Reinholdtsen.
> 
> It still work in progress.
> 
> Any input is welcome.


Thanks for providing this page.

It would be nice if there were a "status" field that showed whether or not
an ftp master had looked at the package and, if so, what his opinion of
the package was.  E.g.,

* new
* looks OK
* needs investigation

I don't know whether or not ftp masters would be willing to make use of
such a feature, though.

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Re: #284724: Interpretation of NON-BREAK SPACE

[Giuseppe Sacco]

Il giorno sab, 12-02-2005 alle 09:43 +, Alastair McKinstry ha
scritto:
[...]
> Does anyone have copies (or pointers to free versions of) SUS and any
> rulings on this matter? What are developers opinions on this: should
> this be treated as a shell (and other scripting language) bug, ie.
> should all characters in the class [:space:] be treated as a token
> seperator in shells/languages, or just the ASCII SPACE?

I believe that non breaking space is just something related to the
layout of a document, so the semantic of a sentence or command including
such characters should just tread them as normal spaces.

Just my 0,02¤,
Giuseppe

Re: what is /.udev for ?

[Wouter Verhelst]

On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 01:05:15PM -0500, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> "carefully remove with appropriate tools."  Anyone who goes mucking
> around their filesystem removing potentially critical compenents
> without thinking about it and using the proper tools for the job,
> is not thinking straight.

'rm' is not a proper tool for file removal?

-- 
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 AIR  --  mud  -- FIRE
soda water |   tequila
 WATER
 -- with thanks to fortune


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Re: please post listing and status of NEW queue

[Martin Zobel-Helas]

Hi Anibal,

On Saturday, 12 Feb 2005, Anibal Monsalve Salazar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 02:50:27PM -0500, Joe Nahmias wrote:
> >Package: ftp.debian.org
> >Severity: wishlist
> >
> >Hello ftp-masters,
> >
> >It would be nice if there were a webpage (updated eg. once a day)
> >listing the packages in the NEW queue in (roughly) the order they will
> >be processed in.  Perhaps also the last 10-15 packages that were acted
> >on and the date of the action, so that it is easier to estimate the wait
> >time in NEW.
> 
> http://qa.debian.org/~anibal/debian-NEW.html
> 
> The above page is based on previous work done by Peter Reinholdtsen.
> 
> It still work in progress.
> 
> Any input is welcome.

from the page: "Total package count: 356"

is that the number of source package, or the number of binaries?

Greetings
Martin

--
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more afraid of life than death.
-- James F. Byrnes


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Re: please post listing and status of NEW queue

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

[Martin Zobel-Helas]
> from the page: "Total package count: 356"
> 
> is that the number of source package, or the number of binaries?

It is the number of source packages, but I agree, the text should
probably mention this explicitly.


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Re: #284724: Interpretation of NON-BREAK SPACE

[Alastair McKinstry]

On Sath, 2005-02-12 at 11:07 +0100, Giuseppe Sacco wrote:
> Il giorno sab, 12-02-2005 alle 09:43 +, Alastair McKinstry ha
> scritto:
> [...]
> > Does anyone have copies (or pointers to free versions of) SUS and any
> > rulings on this matter? What are developers opinions on this: should
> > this be treated as a shell (and other scripting language) bug, ie.
> > should all characters in the class [:space:] be treated as a token
> > seperator in shells/languages, or just the ASCII SPACE?
> 
> I believe that non breaking space is just something related to the
> layout of a document, so the semantic of a sentence or command including
> such characters should just tread them as normal spaces.

FWIW, I agree with this, but I think I should review all the unicode
characters in the [:space:] class first. (e.g. ZERO WIDTH SPACE?)  If
standards are specific about 'space' being purely U+0020, then
technically we could break some strange programs, but I doubt it. 

As this is not a shell-specific problem, I was really wondering if the
scripting languages had encountered it, particularly the 'we support
Unicode' ones... like Perl and Python...

> Just my 0,02â,
> Giuseppe




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Re: #284724: Interpretation of NON-BREAK SPACE

[Frederic Peters]

Alastair McKinstry wrote:

> As this is not a shell-specific problem, I was really wondering if the
> scripting languages had encountered it, particularly the 'we support
> Unicode' ones... like Perl and Python...

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ python -c 'printÂ"hello world"'
  File "", line 1
printÂ"hello world"
 ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ perl -e 'printÂ"hello world\n";'
Unrecognized character \xC2 at -e line 1.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ruby -e 'printÂ"hello world\n"'
-e:1: Invalid char `\302' in expression
-e:1: Invalid char `\240' in expression



Frederic


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Re: #284724: Interpretation of NON-BREAK SPACE

[Ross Burton]

On Sat, 2005-02-12 at 13:18 +0100, Frederic Peters wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ python -c 'print "hello world"'
>   File "", line 1
> print "hello world"
>  ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Don't you need to tell Python what charset you are using if you don't
use ASCII?

Ross
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Re: #284724: Interpretation of NON-BREAK SPACE

[Steinar H. Gunderson]

On Sat, Feb 12, 2005 at 01:18:06PM +0100, Frederic Peters wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ perl -e 'printÂ"hello world\n";'
> Unrecognized character \xC2 at -e line 1.

0xc2 is LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH CIRCUMFLEX... Sounds like you tried to
give UTF-8 to Perl without the "use utf-8" pragma to tell it your script is
in UTF-8 (the non-breaking space is encoded in UTF-8 as 0xc2 0xa0). However,
on my system it breaks out with the same error even with "use utf8;" on top, 
so I guess it's broken anyhow (and a bug against perl?).

With "use utf8;" I can have all sorts of odd national characters in variable
names etc., though, but I don't really know how useful that is ;-)

/* Steinar */
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Re: #284724: Interpretation of NON-BREAK SPACE

[Adeodato Simó]

* Frederic Peters [Sat, 12 Feb 2005 13:18:06 +0100]:

> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ruby -e 'print "hello world\n"'
> -e:1: Invalid char `\302' in expression
> -e:1: Invalid char `\240' in expression

  Just to be fully correct, Ruby needs to be told it's dealing with
  UTF-8 in source:

  $ ruby -Ku -e 'print "hello world\n"'
  -e:1: undefined method `print ' for main:Object (NoMethodError)

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Re: #284724: Interpretation of NON-BREAK SPACE

[Frederic Peters]

Ross Burton wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-02-12 at 13:18 +0100, Frederic Peters wrote:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ python -c 'print "hello world"'
> >   File "", line 1
> > print "hello world"
> >  ^
> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> 
> Don't you need to tell Python what charset you are using if you don't
> use ASCII?

This is PEP 263 , its
purpose is to declare the encoding of Python source files but it
actually only applies to strings, not to the code itself.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ cat test.py 
# -*- coding: UTF-8 -*-
print 'Hello world'

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ python test.py 
  File "test.py", line 2
print 'Hello world'
 ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax




Frederic


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Re: Debian mirror scripts

[Filippo Giunchedi]

On Sun, Jan 02, 2005 at 11:59:20PM +0100, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> > Why there isn't there already a rsync method for apt is probably a
> > mystery nobody ever will solve.
> 
> It is not wanted due to rsync causing excessive server load.
> 
> If Debian would provide zsync files a zsync module could be provided
> in a matter of days.

zsync files for Packages (don't know which suite, though) are available on
zsync's homepage and anyway it would be trivial to hack archive scripts to
provide .zsync files and/or generate them somewhere like p.d.o

filippo
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Re: #284724: Interpretation of NON-BREAK SPACE

[Ross Burton]

On Sat, 2005-02-12 at 13:54 +0100, Frederic Peters wrote:
> > Don't you need to tell Python what charset you are using if you don't
> > use ASCII?
> 
> This is PEP 263 , its
> purpose is to declare the encoding of Python source files but it
> actually only applies to strings, not to the code itself.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ cat test.py 
> # -*- coding: UTF-8 -*-
> print 'Hello world'
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ python test.py 
>   File "test.py", line 2
> print 'Hello world'
>  ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax

As yes.
Quoting from file:///usr/share/doc/python2.3-doc/html/ref/lexical.html:

Python uses the 7-bit ASCII character set for program text. New
in version 2.3: An encoding declaration can be used to indicate
that string literals and comments use an encoding different from
ASCII.. 

So using anything other than ASCII space, tab, and formfeed is incorrect
(file:///usr/share/doc/python2.3-doc/html/ref/whitespace.html)

Ross
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Re: what is /.udev for ?

[Ingo Saitz]

On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 06:51:11PM +0100, Björn Krombholz wrote:
> AFAIR the only device needed on my system was
> /dev/null.

/dev/null and /dev/console, since the kernel needs the latter to open
the initial console and pass that to init.

Until that kernelbug gets fixed, at least.

Ingo
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Re: what is /.udev for ?

[Ingo Saitz]

On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 10:46:29PM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Feb 09, sean finney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > how does /.dev fit in with the fhs?
> It does not, but there is no other place to put it. Just do not look at
> it and it will not bother you.

Just thought there may be a better place to put it: /dev/.dev
It just takes some more fiddling to mount it there:

# mount the old /dev to /dev/.dev
# since /dev is hidden, I need to bind mount / somwhere else first
mkdir /dev/.dev /dev/.tmp
mount --bind / /dev/.tmp
mount --bind /dev/.tmp/dev /dev/.dev
# now I can remove /dev/.tmp
umount /dev/.tmp
rmdir /dev/.tmp

So, no clutter in /, and the old /dev is available in /dev/.dev, where
MAKEDEV should be able to find it, too.

Ingo
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Orphaning three packages

[Neil McGovern]

Hi all,

I'm orphaning three packages:
hawhaw-doc - the documentation for HAWHAW and HAWXY
hawxy - a script that makes PHP-enabled webservers to HAWHAW proxies
libphp-hawhaw - a PHP toolkit to create universal mobile applications

RFAs have been filed for all of them.

There's new upstream available, but it may be quite hard to package
hawhaw-doc.

If no one wants them, I'll ask for their removal.

Regards,
Neil McGovern
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Bug#294943: ITP: ssh-proxy-connect -- tunnel SSH/TCP connection through SOCKS and HTTP(S) proxies

[Sonia Hamilton]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist


* Package name: ssh-proxy-connect
  Version : 1.90
  Upstream Author : Shun-ichi GOTO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.taiyo.co.jp/~gotoh/ssh/connect.html
* License : GPL
  Description : tunnel SSH/TCP connection through SOCKS and HTTP(S) proxies

ssh-proxy-connect is a simple relaying command for making network
connections via SOCKS or https proxies. It is mainly intended to be used
with the proxy command of OpenSSH

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 3.1
  APT prefers testing
  APT policy: (700, 'testing'), (600, 'unstable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Kernel: Linux 2.6.9-2-686
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C (charmap=ANSI_X3.4-1968)


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Re: what is /.udev for ?

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005, Ingo Saitz wrote:
> Just thought there may be a better place to put it: /dev/.dev
> It just takes some more fiddling to mount it there:
> 
> # mount the old /dev to /dev/.dev
> # since /dev is hidden, I need to bind mount / somwhere else first
> mkdir /dev/.dev /dev/.tmp
> mount --bind / /dev/.tmp
> mount --bind /dev/.tmp/dev /dev/.dev
> # now I can remove /dev/.tmp
> umount /dev/.tmp
> rmdir /dev/.tmp

If the above works not due to a kernel bug, but due to how things should
really work, it is quite a good idea. /dev/.dev IS a better place for the
old /dev directory IMHO.

-- 
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  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh


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RFC: graph of Debian package cycle

[martin f krafft]

Based on the work of Kevin Mark (URL not available, sorry), I have
made a graph of the life cycle of a Debian package for inclusion in
my forthcoming book (http://debianbook.info). You can find the
sources and generated files at

  http://people.debian.org/~madduck/graphs/package-cycle/en/

Additional information is available at

  http://people.debian.org/~madduck/graphs/package-cycle/ABOUT

The graph is herewith released under the Artistic Licence. Thanks
to Goswin Brederlow, Bernhard Link, and Kenshi Muto, as well as
Kevin Mark, Sven Müller, and Martin Schulze for the original work.

Please send any comments or corrections my way.

PS: right now it's really big in size. Sorry about that. If someone
tells me how to reliably scale a dia diagram down, I will do so,
gladly.

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Re: Debian mirror scripts

[Goswin von Brederlow]

Filippo Giunchedi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Sun, Jan 02, 2005 at 11:59:20PM +0100, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
>> > Why there isn't there already a rsync method for apt is probably a
>> > mystery nobody ever will solve.
>> 
>> It is not wanted due to rsync causing excessive server load.
>> 
>> If Debian would provide zsync files a zsync module could be provided
>> in a matter of days.
>
> zsync files for Packages (don't know which suite, though) are available on
> zsync's homepage and anyway it would be trivial to hack archive scripts to
> provide .zsync files and/or generate them somewhere like p.d.o

Yes it would. Please convince ftp-master of that.

MfG
Goswin


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Re: Debian mirror scripts

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> Filippo Giunchedi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > On Sun, Jan 02, 2005 at 11:59:20PM +0100, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> >> > Why there isn't there already a rsync method for apt is probably a
> >> > mystery nobody ever will solve.
> >> 
> >> It is not wanted due to rsync causing excessive server load.
> >> 
> >> If Debian would provide zsync files a zsync module could be provided
> >> in a matter of days.
> >
> > zsync files for Packages (don't know which suite, though) are available on
> > zsync's homepage and anyway it would be trivial to hack archive scripts to
> > provide .zsync files and/or generate them somewhere like p.d.o
> 
> Yes it would. Please convince ftp-master of that.

Better yet, submit a patch!

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh


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Re: Bug#291945: eleventh-hour transition for mysql-using packages related to apache

[Steve Langasek]

On Sat, Feb 12, 2005 at 09:53:34AM +0100, Francesco Paolo Lovergine wrote:
> > > Nice, so we should check that any linked GPL library directly (obviuolsy) 
> > > or
> > > indirectly (with N=1,2,3... levels of indirection) linked against
> > > openssl adds the exception.

> > No, we should simply not be linking libmysqlclient against OpenSSL.  The
> > exemption was needed because there exists software that uses both
> > libmysqlclient and libssl, but making libmysqlclient itself use libssl just
> > because we now have the exemption will cause licensing problems for
> > applications which currently do *not* depend on libssl.

> That's clear, I meant simply that if program A links libB which links libC
> which links libssl, than both A, libB and libC should add the exception,
> isn't it? That's independently from having A using libssl functions
> directly or not.

That's true; I'm merely pointing out the importance of not turning
libmysqlclient into libC here.

-- 
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postmodern programmer


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Re: RFC: graph of Debian package cycle

[Otavio Salvador]

|| On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 16:47:27 +0100
|| martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

mfk> Based on the work of Kevin Mark (URL not available, sorry), I have
mfk> made a graph of the life cycle of a Debian package for inclusion in
mfk> my forthcoming book (http://debianbook.info). You can find the
mfk> sources and generated files at

I think you might change this:

 incoming -> package source -> buildds -> package upload -> incoming

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Re: RFC: graph of Debian package cycle

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Otavio Salvador <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.02.12.1842 +0100]:
> I think you might change this:
> 
>  incoming -> package source -> buildds -> package upload -> incoming

Given that incoming contains the source package (unless orig.tar.gz
is pulled from unstable, should add that), the buildds really don't
deal with the upstream sources or the unpacked source tree
maintained by the developer.

I am not sure what you mean. Sorry.

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Re: RFC: graph of Debian package cycle

[Florian Weimer]

* martin f. krafft:

> Based on the work of Kevin Mark (URL not available, sorry), I have
> made a graph of the life cycle of a Debian package for inclusion in
> my forthcoming book (http://debianbook.info). You can find the
> sources and generated files at
>
>   http://people.debian.org/~madduck/graphs/package-cycle/en/

Interesting, thanks.  I believe the --->O arrays are confusingly
labled.  "package installation" is probably a better choice.  The
difference between "package propagation" and "package upload" is not
clear, at least to me.

I suppose you should split the diagram in two because the
before-incoming part and the after-incoming part are not too strongly
connected, and the result would be more readable.


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mirror the Packages files _after_ the packages!

[Dan Jacobson]

I know you Debian people think it's just hilarious when users try to
apt-get upgrade during the period after when the Packages files
arrive on the mirrors, but before the packages they describe have
fully arrived.

"Haw haw haw, try again later", you say, never thinking that maybe
writing the Packages files last would be the right thing to do.

"The problem can't persist more then a couple of hours, what's the big
deal?"

Well, the connection to mirror-upstream broke mid-mirror-push this
time during Chinese New Years. Perhaps 10 days before the system
administrator will be back in the office to see what happened.

"Haw haw haw, try another mirror.  Haw haw haw."

The other local mirrors have the same problem, and their system admins are
also on vacation.  Foreign mirrors are on slow links.

So not fixing bug 6786 (just write the [EMAIL PROTECTED] Packages file after
writing the packages) causes users' apt-get upgrades to fail
needlessly... down for 10 days. Great.

The Debian whippersnappers don't see the danger of needlessly leaving
mirrors in a broken state "for only a couple of hours a day, what's
the big deal" ... well if the mirror mechanism breaks during this
broken state, then "couple of hours" becomes indefinitely.

I can't think of any other case in Computer Science where one updates
a descriptor before updating the thing described!!! How can you defend
that???  No smug remarks can defend that!

"Never bothered me", yeah well wait until you are giving your next
apt-get upgrade demonstration and now it's too late, you did
apt-get update && apt-get upgrade instead of
apt-get upgrade && apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
and now you have to tell the class to "wait a couple of hours" until
you can show them anything.

Yeah I know, "the more I complain, the more it's not going to get
done."
OK, can somebody send me the section of code so I can fix it then?

Err http://xx.linux.org.xx sid/main   404 Not Found
Failed to fetch http://xx.linux.org.xx/debian/pool/main/x
Fetched 26.6MB in 2m39s (167kB/s)
E: Some files failed to download
Error 100

P.S., "a couple hours" is for your fancy mirror's connections.
Some mirrors far away might be in the broken state (Packages* arrived,
not all packages arrived) for half a day each day!


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Re: mirror the Packages files _after_ the packages!

[Martin Zobel-Helas]

Hi Dan,

On Wednesday, 09 Feb 2005, Dan Jacobson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I know you Debian people think it's just hilarious when users try to
> apt-get upgrade during the period after when the Packages files
> arrive on the mirrors, but before the packages they describe have
> fully arrived.

see http://lists.debian.org/debian-www/2005/01/msg00199.html

Greetings
Martin
--
Love is the only game that is not called on account of darkness.
-- M. Hirschfield


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Re: RFC: graph of Debian package cycle

[Otavio Salvador]

|| On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 18:50:56 +0100
|| martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

mfk> also sprach Otavio Salvador <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.02.12.1842 +0100]:
>> I think you might change this:
>> 
>> incoming -> package source -> buildds -> package upload -> incoming

mfk> Given that incoming contains the source package (unless orig.tar.gz
mfk> is pulled from unstable, should add that), the buildds really don't
mfk> deal with the upstream sources or the unpacked source tree
mfk> maintained by the developer.

Buildds deal with source package and not binary package. I thought you
mean with package source the .dsc, .diff.gz and .orig.tar.gz files.

-- 
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-
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 GNU/Linux User: 239058 GPG ID: 49A5F855
 Home Page: http://www.freedom.ind.br/otavio
-
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Re: what is /.udev for ?

[Ron Johnson]

On Fri, 2005-02-11 at 23:16 +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 01:05:15PM -0500, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote:
> > "carefully remove with appropriate tools."  Anyone who goes mucking
> > around their filesystem removing potentially critical compenents
> > without thinking about it and using the proper tools for the job,
> > is not thinking straight.
> 
> 'rm' is not a proper tool for file removal?

Rules to live by:
  Look before you leap.
  Measure twice, cut once.
  Google it!

-- 
-
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson, LA USA
PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail.

"Perl is worse than Python because people wanted it worse."
Larry Wall, 10/14/1998



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Re: Orphaning three packages

[Adam Majer]

Neil McGovern wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I'm orphaning three packages:
>hawhaw-doc - the documentation for HAWHAW and HAWXY
>hawxy - a script that makes PHP-enabled webservers to HAWHAW proxies
>libphp-hawhaw - a PHP toolkit to create universal mobile applications
>
>RFAs have been filed for all of them.
>
>If no one wants them, I'll ask for their removal.
>
>  
>

That should be O: not RFA:, especially since you will not maintain these
yourself.

- Adam


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Re: Bug#291945: eleventh-hour transition for mysql-using packages related to apache

[Francesco Paolo Lovergine]

On Sat, Feb 12, 2005 at 09:17:44AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 12, 2005 at 09:53:34AM +0100, Francesco Paolo Lovergine wrote:
> > > > Nice, so we should check that any linked GPL library directly 
> > > > (obviuolsy) or
> > > > indirectly (with N=1,2,3... levels of indirection) linked against
> > > > openssl adds the exception.
> 
> > > No, we should simply not be linking libmysqlclient against OpenSSL.  The
> > > exemption was needed because there exists software that uses both
> > > libmysqlclient and libssl, but making libmysqlclient itself use libssl 
> > > just
> > > because we now have the exemption will cause licensing problems for
> > > applications which currently do *not* depend on libssl.
> 
> > That's clear, I meant simply that if program A links libB which links libC
> > which links libssl, than both A, libB and libC should add the exception,
> > isn't it? That's independently from having A using libssl functions
> > directly or not.
> 
> That's true; I'm merely pointing out the importance of not turning
> libmysqlclient into libC here.
> 

So what if we had two editions of libmysqlclient, one of them
ssl-enabled and the other - as currently - not? That would allow
using ssl whenever possible. I think that could be done, without
breaking things.

-- 
Francesco P. Lovergine


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Re: what is /.udev for ?

[Marco d'Itri]

By popular request, the comment now states:

  # /.dev is used by /sbin/MAKEDEV to access the real /dev directory.
  # if you do not like this then rmdir /.dev/ after unmounting it.


And for the benefit of another class of users who run commands without
understand their consequences, I added this as well:

warn_if_interactive() {
  TTY=$(my_tty)
  if [ -z "$TTY" -o "$TTY" = "/dev/console" ]; then
 return
  fi

  printf "\n\n\nIt has been detected that the command\n\n\t$0 $*\n\n"
  printf "has been run from an interactive shell.\n"
  printf "It will probably not do what you expect, so this script will wait\n"
  printf "60 seconds before continuing. Press ^C to stop it.\n"
  printf "RUNNING THIS COMMAND IS HIGHLY DISCOURAGED!\n\n\n\n"
  sleep 60
}

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: what is /.udev for ?

[Lucas de Sousa]

> > 'rm' is not a proper tool for file removal?
>
> Rules to live by:
>   Look before you leap.
>   Measure twice, cut once.
>   Google it!

This is a very good set of rules if all of our intendend users are experts.

:)

And even to experts...
If I have not readed this here 
I would look at it.
And promptly removed it.
(rm -Rf style, yes)
Assuming that is unclean installation junk.


-- 
Lucas de Sousa



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Re: what is /.udev for ?

[Norbert Tretkowski]

* Marco d'Itri wrote:
> By popular request, the comment now states:
> 
> # /.dev is used by /sbin/MAKEDEV to access the real /dev directory.
> # if you do not like this then rmdir /.dev/ after unmounting it.

Thanks.

Norbert


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Re: what is /.udev for ?

[Ron Johnson]

On Sat, 2005-02-12 at 18:33 -0200, Lucas de Sousa wrote:
> > > 'rm' is not a proper tool for file removal?
> >
> > Rules to live by:
> >   Look before you leap.
> >   Measure twice, cut once.
> >   Google it!
> 
> This is a very good set of rules if all of our intendend users are experts.
  ^^^



So you are saying that these are *not* good rules for amateurs?

> :)
> 
> And even to experts...
> If I have not readed this here 
> I would look at it.
> And promptly removed it.
> (rm -Rf style, yes)
> Assuming that is unclean installation junk.

-- 
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Jefferson, LA USA
PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail.

Regarding war zones: "There's nothing sacrosanct about a hotel
with a bunch of journalists in it."
Marine Lt. Gen. Bernard E. Trainor (Retired)


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Re: /etc under svk

[Torsten Landschoff]

Hi Enrico, 

On Fri, Feb 11, 2005 at 06:36:04PM +0100, Enrico Zini wrote:
> a tip to share:
> 
># Install svk
>apt-get install svk
>
># Initialize a depot in /root/.svk
>svk depotmap --init
> [...]

Wanted to do that - but! Does svk handle symlinks? Thinking of
/etc/rc?.d and /etc/alternatives... Wrote my own scripts to handle svn
for /etc but they are still quite hackish...

Greetings

Torsten


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Bug#294991: O: sitecopy -- A program for managing a WWW site via FTP, DAV or HTTP

[Janusz S. Bień]

Package: wnpp
Severity: normal

The package lags 3 years behind upstream.

It is based on upstream version of 13 January 2002, while the current
upstream version is 0.14.2 of 3 January 2005:

http://www.lyra.org/sitecopy/

The upstream version probably corrects all or most of the bugs
reported.

As the maintainer is evidently not active, I declare the package as
orphaned.

Best regards

Janusz

-- 
 ,   
dr hab. Janusz S. Bien, prof. UW -  Uniwersytet Warszawski (Katedra Lingwistyki 
Formalnej)
Prof. Janusz S. Bien - Warsaw Uniwersity (Chair of Formal Linguistics)
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.mimuw.edu.pl/~jsbien/, 
http://www.klf.uw.edu.pl


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Bug#294990: ITP: bontmia -- backup over network to multiple incremental archives

[Reto Schuettel]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Reto Schuettel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: bontmia
  Version : 0.14
  Upstream Author : John Enok Vollestad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://folk.uio.no/johnen/bontmia/
* License : GPL
  Description : backup over network to multiple incremental archives

bontmia creates incremental snapshots of a list of given directories
over the network by using rsync over ssh and hard links. Every snapshot
looks for the user like a complete copy of all the files, but as a result
of using hard links every unchanged copy of a file is stored only once on
the hard disk.

The user can specify how old backups should be stored/kept. For example it's 
possible
to keep the daily snapshots of the last 14 days, but also keep one
snapshot per month of the last 12 months. The used network bandwidth can
also be limited to avoid affecting production systems.


-- System Information:
Debian Release: 3.1
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Kernel: Linux 2.6.9-1-k7
Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=de_CH (charmap=ISO-8859-1)


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Re: what is /.udev for ?

[Lucas de Sousa]

> > > Rules to live by:
> > >   Look before you leap.
> > >   Measure twice, cut once.
> > >   Google it!
> >
> > This is a very good set of rules if all of our intendend users are
> > experts.
>
> So you are saying that these are *not* good rules for amateurs?

It is
But is not wise to develop software that depends on it.

:)

-- 
Lucas de Sousa



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Re: /etc under svk

[Florian Weimer]

* Torsten Landschoff:

> Wanted to do that - but! Does svk handle symlinks? Thinking of
> /etc/rc?.d and /etc/alternatives... Wrote my own scripts to handle svn
> for /etc but they are still quite hackish...

Subversion 1.1 and svk 0.18 both support symlinks natively.


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Re: please post listing and status of NEW queue

[Thomas Hood]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 01:20:13 +0100, Anibal Monsalve Salazar wrote:
> Any input is welcome.

It would be nice if the page indicated which of the binary packages is new.

-- 
Thomas Hood


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Re: please post listing and status of NEW queue

[Anibal Monsalve Salazar]

On Sat, Feb 12, 2005 at 08:30:13AM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
>[Anibal Monsalve Salazar]
>>http://qa.debian.org/~anibal/debian-NEW.html
>
>Great.  This is much better than my crude hack.  If you plan to keep
>this updated all the time, I'll close down my page and point people to
>your page.

It's updated at 41 minutes past the hour by a cron job.

>>Any input is welcome.
>
>It would be nice if the changelog for the uploaded package is
>available too.

That's doable.

>Another feature I've been wishing for is making more statistics, for
>example of averaget waiting time (keeping track of when packages come
>and go), and perhaps an history to know when how often a given package
>have been in the NEW queue.  Some packages return (shared libraries
>changing sonames, mplayer, etc), and it would be nice to let this
>system tell us instead of trusting memory.
>
>I've also considered looking at "out-of-order" processing of queue
>entires, to see if there is a pattern for packages processed faster
>than the rest of the queue.
>
>None of this is really important, but it would be nice to have the
>information more easily available.  Problem is, of course, that as
>this isn't important I haven't spent any time to make it happen.  Too
>much more important stuff to take care of. :)

We'll see what we could do. Thanks for the ideas.

>Thank you again, for making a much better presentation of the NEW
>queue. :)

Thanks to _you_ for the original code.

Miriam Ruiz (Baby)
David Moreno Garza (damog)
Anibal Monsalve Salazar (anibal)
--
 .''`. Debian GNU/Linux
: :' : Free Operating System
`. `'  http://debian.org/
  `-


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Processed: Reopening #242950

[Debian Bug Tracking System]

Processing commands for [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> reopen 242950
Bug#242950: Please update libtool for GNU/k*BSD port.
Bug reopened, originator not changed.

> thanks
Stopping processing here.

Please contact me if you need assistance.

Debian bug tracking system administrator
(administrator, Debian Bugs database)


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Re: Bug#291945: eleventh-hour transition for mysql-using packages related to apache

[Francesco Paolo Lovergine]

On Fri, Feb 11, 2005 at 03:30:59PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 11, 2005 at 03:31:44PM +0100, Christian Hammers wrote:
> > On 2005-02-11 sean finney wrote:
> > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2005 at 10:15:55AM +0100, Francesco P. Lovergine wrote:
> > > > FYI: new mysql FLOSS includes OpenSSL license, so many packages could
> > > > migrate to current libmysqlclient starting from no starting from now..
> 
> > > that's great to hear!  i'm cc'ing the relevant wishlist bug i have open
> > > against mysql-server.  christian: any chance of getting an openssl enabled
> > > version of the mysql-client and mysql-server packages?
> 
> > Yes, I will re-enable openssl in the next upload.
> 
> Please make sure this does not introduce an openssl dependency to
> libmysqlclient itself; just because MySQL AB have granted a license
> exception for OpenSSL does not mean everyone who links to libmysqlclient
> has done so.
> 
> I know of at least one GPL-without-exception package that is now using
> libmysqlclient12 in Debian.

Nice, so we should check that any linked GPL library directly (obviuolsy) or
indirectly (with N=1,2,3... levels of indirection) linked against
openssl adds the exception. This is a great reason to move asap all
possible programs to gnutls, indeed.

-- 
Francesco P. Lovergine


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Re: Bug#291945: eleventh-hour transition for mysql-using packages related to apache

[Steve Langasek]

On Sat, Feb 12, 2005 at 09:14:26AM +0100, Francesco Paolo Lovergine wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 11, 2005 at 03:30:59PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 11, 2005 at 03:31:44PM +0100, Christian Hammers wrote:
> > > On 2005-02-11 sean finney wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2005 at 10:15:55AM +0100, Francesco P. Lovergine wrote:
> > > > > FYI: new mysql FLOSS includes OpenSSL license, so many packages could
> > > > > migrate to current libmysqlclient starting from no starting from now..

> > > > that's great to hear!  i'm cc'ing the relevant wishlist bug i have open
> > > > against mysql-server.  christian: any chance of getting an openssl 
> > > > enabled
> > > > version of the mysql-client and mysql-server packages?

> > > Yes, I will re-enable openssl in the next upload.

> > Please make sure this does not introduce an openssl dependency to
> > libmysqlclient itself; just because MySQL AB have granted a license
> > exception for OpenSSL does not mean everyone who links to libmysqlclient
> > has done so.

> > I know of at least one GPL-without-exception package that is now using
> > libmysqlclient12 in Debian.

> Nice, so we should check that any linked GPL library directly (obviuolsy) or
> indirectly (with N=1,2,3... levels of indirection) linked against
> openssl adds the exception.

No, we should simply not be linking libmysqlclient against OpenSSL.  The
exemption was needed because there exists software that uses both
libmysqlclient and libssl, but making libmysqlclient itself use libssl just
because we now have the exemption will cause licensing problems for
applications which currently do *not* depend on libssl.

> This is a great reason to move asap all possible programs to gnutls,
> indeed.

There are plenty of reasons to move software to gnutls, but doing so is
non-trivial.

-- 
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer


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Re: what is /.udev for ?

[Ron Johnson]

On Sat, 2005-02-12 at 20:11 -0200, Lucas de Sousa wrote:
> > > > Rules to live by:
> > > >   Look before you leap.
> > > >   Measure twice, cut once.
> > > >   Google it!
> > >
> > > This is a very good set of rules if all of our intendend users are
> > > experts.
> >
> > So you are saying that these are *not* good rules for amateurs?
> 
> It is
> But is not wise to develop software that depends on it.

Too true.

-- 
-
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson, LA USA
PGP Key ID 8834C06B I prefer encrypted mail.

"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have
come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the
first."
Ronald Reagan


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Re: Bug#294845: ITP: holotz-castle -- platform game with high dosis of mistery

[Steve Greenland]

On 11-Feb-05, 15:17 (CST), Miriam Ruiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> Owner: Miriam Ruiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 
> * Package name: holotz-castle
>   Version : 1.3.1
>   Upstream Author : Juan Carlos Seijo P?rez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> * URL : http://www.mainreactor.net/en/index_en.html
> * License : GPL v2
>   Description : platform game with high dosis of mistery
  
Urh, what? Perhaps "doses of mystery"?

> 
> It is a platform game with different screens in which you must use your
> skills to be able to get all the items. It is described as:
> "A great mistery is hidden beyond the walls of Holotz's Castle. Will

"mystery", again.

> you be able to help Ybelle and Ludar to scape alive from the castle?
  ^
"escape", probably.

Steve

-- 
Steve Greenland
The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating
system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the
world.   -- seen on the net


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debian-policy: Virtual package: change mp3-encoder with music-encoder

[Jesus Climent]

Package: debian-policy
Version: 3.6.1.1
Severity: wishlist

Having no mp3 encoder in the archive, due to possible patent problems, i
believe it would be a wiser idea to have "music-encoder" as a virtual package
than "mp3-encoder".

Tools that have a Depends: entry on mp3-encoder are:

ecasound

Tools like abcde, grip, jack,... would benefit when having a simple dependency
instead of listing all the possible music encoders out there: flac,
vorbis-tools, lame, bladeenc, speex, yet-to-come musepack, ...

-- System Information:
Debian Release: 3.1
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)
Kernel: Linux 2.6.10-1-686
Locale: LANG=en_US, LC_CTYPE=en_US (charmap=ISO-8859-1)

-- no debconf information

-- 
Jesus Climent  info:www.pumuki.org
Unix SysAdm|Linux User #66350|Debian Developer|2.6.10|Helsinki Finland
GPG: 1024D/86946D69 BB64 2339 1CAA 7064 E429  7E18 66FC 1D7F 8694 6D69

Kill every human on the planet?  Sounds like a good idea! But first, we
should concentrate on more immediate goals.
--Jeffrey Goines (12 Monkeys)


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Re: please post listing and status of NEW queue

[David Moreno Garza]

On Sat, 2005-02-12 at 22:52 +0100, Thomas Hood wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 01:20:13 +0100, Anibal Monsalve Salazar wrote:
> > Any input is welcome.
> 
> It would be nice if the page indicated which of the binary packages is new.

The binary column indicates those created within the source package.
Every source package on the summary is new, that's why it is on the NEW
queue.

--
David Moreno Garza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | http://www.damog.net/
 Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. 
 GPG: C671257D - 6EF6 C284 C95D 78F6 0B78 FFD3 981C 5FD7 C671 257D


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Re: Bug#291945: eleventh-hour transition for mysql-using packages related to apache

[Paul Hampson]

On Sat, Feb 12, 2005 at 08:25:41PM +0100, Francesco Paolo Lovergine wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 12, 2005 at 09:17:44AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > On Sat, Feb 12, 2005 at 09:53:34AM +0100, Francesco Paolo Lovergine wrote:
> > > > > Nice, so we should check that any linked GPL library directly 
> > > > > (obviuolsy) or
> > > > > indirectly (with N=1,2,3... levels of indirection) linked against
> > > > > openssl adds the exception.

> > > > No, we should simply not be linking libmysqlclient against OpenSSL.  The
> > > > exemption was needed because there exists software that uses both
> > > > libmysqlclient and libssl, but making libmysqlclient itself use libssl 
> > > > just
> > > > because we now have the exemption will cause licensing problems for
> > > > applications which currently do *not* depend on libssl.

> > > That's clear, I meant simply that if program A links libB which links libC
> > > which links libssl, than both A, libB and libC should add the exception,
> > > isn't it? That's independently from having A using libssl functions
> > > directly or not.

> > That's true; I'm merely pointing out the importance of not turning
> > libmysqlclient into libC here.

> So what if we had two editions of libmysqlclient, one of them
> ssl-enabled and the other - as currently - not? That would allow
> using ssl whenever possible. I think that could be done, without
> breaking things.

That's funny. Didn't we spend all that time since Woody merging
lib-*-ssl back into lib-*?

-- 
---
Paul "TBBle" Hampson, MCSE
8th year CompSci/Asian Studies student, ANU
The Boss, Bubblesworth Pty Ltd (ABN: 51 095 284 361)
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Re: #284724: Interpretation of NON-BREAK SPACE

[Thaddeus H. Black]

> ... should all characters in the class [:space:] be
> treated as a token seperator in shells/languages, or
> just the ASCII SPACE?

If it seems pertinent to you, the C language standard
sets this precedent [1]: "The source file is decomposed
into preprocessing tokens and sequences of white-space
characters (including comments)."  Although the verbiage
in the standard annoyingly leaps a few extra gymnastics
to support some obsolete anti-ascii character sets,
basically, all six of the traditional [:space:]
characters [\t\n\v\f\r ] are treated the same---except
that the two-character sequence "\\\n" (backslash
followed by newline) serves to join two lines of text
before preprocessing.

However, the NO-BREAK SPACE is not one of the six
characters, nor is it a member of [:space:], nor is it
acknowledged by the iswspace(3) function.  Personally,
if I were using your interpreter, I would not want it
quietly to accept a NO-BREAK SPACE as a token separator.
I would prefer it to warn me that I had some weird
character lurking in my script.

-- 
Thaddeus H. Black
508 Nellie's Cave Road
Blacksburg, Virginia 24060, USA
+1 540 961 0920, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[1] ISO/IEC 9899:1999 5.1.1.2.3.


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Re: please post listing and status of NEW queue

[Adeodato Simó]

* David Moreno Garza [Sat, 12 Feb 2005 18:59:22 -0600]:
> On Sat, 2005-02-12 at 22:52 +0100, Thomas Hood wrote:
> > On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 01:20:13 +0100, Anibal Monsalve Salazar wrote:
> > > Any input is welcome.

> > It would be nice if the page indicated which of the binary packages is new.

> The binary column indicates those created within the source package.
> Every source package on the summary is new, that's why it is on the NEW
> queue.

  Not really. See e.g. the kdevelop3 source package, which already
  exists in the archive. Sometimes, packages add one binary, or remove
  one. In this case, it was a rename, and if IUIC, Thomas would like
  something like:

   kdevelop3
  -kdevelop-data
  -kdevelop-dev
  -kdevelop-doc
  -kdevelop-plugins
  +kdevelop3-data
  +kdevelop3-dev
  +kdevelop3-doc
  +kdevelop3-plugins

  That is, a diff of the list of binary packages. Perhaps, one could
  colour red removed packages, and blue added ones.

  (Yes, I know red currently means 'targetted at experimental'. Mmmm,
  you could colour the source package as red, because distribution
  affects all of the binaries, right? If a package has more than one
  upload, one would colour it red if the _latest_ one is targetted at
  experimental.)

  Just my 2¢, but is late here.

-- 
Adeodato Simó
EM: asp16 [ykwim] alu.ua.es | PK: DA6AE621
 
The true teacher defends his pupils against his own personal influence.
-- Amos Bronson Alcott


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Re: Bug#294990: ITP: bontmia -- backup over network to multiple incremental archives

[Eric Dorland]

Out of curiosity, how does this program is different from dirvish? 

* Reto Schuettel ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> Owner: Reto Schuettel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 
> * Package name: bontmia
>   Version : 0.14
>   Upstream Author : John Enok Vollestad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> * URL : http://folk.uio.no/johnen/bontmia/
> * License : GPL
>   Description : backup over network to multiple incremental archives
> 
> bontmia creates incremental snapshots of a list of given directories
> over the network by using rsync over ssh and hard links. Every snapshot
> looks for the user like a complete copy of all the files, but as a result
> of using hard links every unchanged copy of a file is stored only once on
> the hard disk.
> 
> The user can specify how old backups should be stored/kept. For example it's 
> possible
> to keep the daily snapshots of the last 14 days, but also keep one
> snapshot per month of the last 12 months. The used network bandwidth can
> also be limited to avoid affecting production systems.

-- 
Eric Dorland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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