Re: radiusd-freeradius history and future

[Russell Coker]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:54, Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > This is so ugly.
>
> Last I looked, there wasn't much in NIS that wasn't.  I think the amount
> of pain we should put other users through on account of NIS is very
> small (e.g., no longer asking about non-md5 passwords on install).

Sounds reasonable.

I guess we could make it all install for non-NIS systems by default and assume 
that anyone who knows how to get NIS properly installed can sort out the 
necessary changes.

When comparing distributions they sometimes count the number of questions 
asked at installation, by such a comparison Debian does very badly.  While I 
don't think that we should be aiming for a dozen questions on an install, I 
think that we can productively remove some of the less common options.

Re: sarge release

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Scott James Remnant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003.11.12.2312 +0100]:
> I'd always understood that bugs with a severity of 'serious' or
> above (also knows as Release Critical, or RC bugs) should always
> be treated with the highest priority, not just when near
> a release.

also sprach Brian Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003.11.12.2343 +0100]:
> Er, I think any RC bug in a package should be fixed ASAP,
> regardless of the release schedule.

also sprach Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003.11.13.0030 +0100]:
> If you take the latter approach, the packages in question will
> have to be either NMUed or removed from sarge. The more people who
> say "oh, we've got plenty of time so I don't need to fix this bug
> right now", the harder it is to produce a release.

I get your point, and I will tend to the RC bug as soon as somehow
possible. Right now I am swamped, and I simply wanted to get a feel
whether I am already in the crowd of those upholding the release, or
whether I am just another developer that currently has more
important things to do than tend to Debian. Unfortunately, I do
still have a life outside Debian (and a need for income, and the
like). ;^> This may soon change, however...

-- 
Please do not CC me when replying to lists; I read them!
 
 .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: :'  :proud Debian developer, admin, and user
`. `'`
  `-  Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system
 
Invalid/expired PGP subkeys? Use subkeys.pgp.net as keyserver!


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Re: gimp1.2: gimp package suggest non-free software

[Mathieu Roy]

Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a tapoté :

> On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Mathieu Roy wrote:
>
>> 2) Do you have any valid proof of what you claim? Please, avoid being
>>a liar, this is a very bad attitude. Keep your personal feeling
>>out of this mailing-list, I do not give a toss about it and I think
>>that noone else does.
>
> A liar?  You have a very slant view on life.
>
> It's much better to say "you are mistaken" or "you are misinformed" then to
> call someone a liar.  Because you have said it this way, it looks badly on
> you, no matter what the other person has done.

So someone can tell whatever he wants without taking care of the
truth?

I don't support that and I suppose I'll never do.

The matter to me is not how people looks like but what people
says. And in this case, there were two options: a misinformation or a
lie. With a so affirmative phrase, it is some kind of lie in any case:
when you are not well informed, if you pretend to be, you commit some
kind of lie, and your attitude is misleading for everybody.



-- 
Mathieu Roy

  +-+
  | General Homepage:   http://yeupou.coleumes.org/ |
  | Computing Homepage: http://alberich.coleumes.org/   |
  | Not a native english speaker:   |
  | http://stock.coleumes.org/doc.php?i=/misc-files/flawed-english  |
  +-+

Re: gimp1.2: gimp package suggest non-free software

[Mathieu Roy]

Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a tapoté :

> On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Mathieu Roy wrote:
>
>> I think this is a serious bug: the functionality of the free version
>> has been lowered to promote patent emcumbered package.
>
> Patented software isn't really non-free.

That's why I wrote "patent emcumbered package".


-- 
Mathieu Roy

  +-+
  | General Homepage:   http://yeupou.coleumes.org/ |
  | Computing Homepage: http://alberich.coleumes.org/   |
  | Not a native english speaker:   |
  | http://stock.coleumes.org/doc.php?i=/misc-files/flawed-english  |
  +-+

Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[Rico -mc- Gloeckner]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 03:08:11AM +0200, Richard Braakman wrote:
> Remember that this process has to scale to dozens of new packages
> per day.  It should be optimized for the common case.

  Know your tools.

-- 
Rico -mc- Gloeckner | 1024D/61F05B8C | jabber:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.ukeer.de |RICO-RIPE   | sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 ==  mv ~/.signature  http://www.ukeer.de/signature.html  ==

Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis]

On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 08:59:22PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote:
> No way, man. We simply have to have people repeat the same fodder on
> debian-devel over and over again. The three hundred odd mails per day
> from the new fodder just aren't enough!

Yes, but realy a lot of people at any level in Debian have strong negative
feelings towards James (just to leave it to your immagination), for various
reasons. There must be somthing true in it, and since i'm involved in Debian i
never sow this situation to get better.

We might repeat the same fodder with the same mails, and write the same mails
with with the same words: perheps we use the wrong words, or simply we still
use the rude words. I see most people still not understanding that we read 
mails:
we don't see faces, we don't looks each other in the eyes. Reading mails is
differen from speaking face to face. You can't write anything in any way on
mails: you must be careful. Most of you (hey James, you too) simply don't
care. Deal with other people the same way you'd like to be dealt with.

To say it shortly: if a lot of people don't like you, thay can't all be wrong
about you (and believe me, there are really a lot).

ciao,
-- 
Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis  | Elegant or ugly code as well
aliases: Luca ^De [A-Z][A-Za-z\-]*[iy]'\?s$ | as fine or rude sentences have
Luca, a wannabe ``Good guy''.   | something in common: they
local LANG="[EMAIL PROTECTED]" | don't depend on the 
language.

Re: Closing. (Was: Re: Bug#219582: ITP: linux -- Linux 2.4 kernel)

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Thu, 2003-11-13 at 06:38, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 12:23:44AM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > I
> > for one _would_ appreciate having a debian-standard linux package.
> 
> kernel-source-*, kernel-image-*, kernel-headers-*

And truth be told, since I've been using them since forever,
(a few years now) I will continue to use them for significant
time. As I said, I like the experiement - perhaps I should
have said "more standard" ...

Too 'newbie' to comment further,
Zen

Re: gimp1.2: gimp package suggest non-free software

[Roberto Suarez Soto]

On Nov/12, Steve Langasek wrote:

> > I don't see how making more packages available to our users is
> > "lowering the quality of Debian in matter of freedom".
> Oh, you think there's a positive correlation between quality and
> quantity, do you? ;)

Regarding options available to choose and women breasts' size,
quantity is always quality ;-)

-- 
Roberto Suarez Soto Alfa21 Outsourcing
[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.alfa21.com

Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[Mark Brown]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 03:08:11AM +0200, Richard Braakman wrote:

> I think rejecting it during this process of deliberation is better
> than letting it sit there.  A rejection alerts the maintainer that
> there's something wrong with the package.  In most cases, the maintainer
> will agree and fix the package, so that it's no longer borderline and

It also helps avoid periods where things are sitting in limbo (never
good for transparency) and puts the onus for driving the process forward
onto the maintainer (who is presumably more motivated to deal with
things than a ftpmaster who's not convinced a package should go into the
archive).

-- 
"You grabbed my hand and we fell into it, like a daydream - or a fever."

Re: 3 packages for adoption

[Benoit Mortier]

Le Mardi 4 Novembre 2003 19:31, Oliver Kurth a écrit :
> Hi there,
>
> I would like to give three of my packages for adoption:

[..]
> memtester

i am interested in this one, i will take it

have a nice day
-- 
OpenSides sprl
Free Software Specialist
Benoit Mortier - Linux Engineer


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Re: gimp1.2: gimp package suggest non-free software

[Corrin Lakeland]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:32, Roberto Suarez Soto wrote:

>   Regarding options available to choose and women breasts' size,
> quantity is always quality ;-)

And people wonder why linux doesn't encourage many women ;-)

Corrin
>
> --
> Roberto Suarez Soto   Alfa21 Outsourcing
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.alfa21.com

Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[David Weinehall]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 02:14:18AM -0600, Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 08:59:22PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote:
> > No way, man. We simply have to have people repeat the same fodder on
> > debian-devel over and over again. The three hundred odd mails per day
> > from the new fodder just aren't enough!
> 
> Yes, but realy a lot of people at any level in Debian have strong
> negative feelings towards James (just to leave it to your
> immagination), for various reasons. There must be somthing true in it,
> and since i'm involved in Debian i never sow this situation to get
> better.

A lot of people believe that Elvis still is alive, a lot of people used
to believe in flogiston rather than oxygen, a lot of people "knew" that
that world was flat...  The list goes on for ages.  Face it,
that a lot of people have strong feelings about something just doesn't
make it true; we have war, religion and modern financial theory as
evidence for this.

As for James: if you are in a position where you decide who's to go in
and who's not (as the DAM), and to decide _what_ goes in and what
doesn't (as an FTP-master), you must:

a.) Expect, and be able to brush off, a lot of shit

b.) Be able to stand firm and not change your opinion just becuase of
public pressure, if you're confident that your choice was based on
correct criteria the first time around

James seems to meet both of these criteria, something I really respect
him for.  Imagine having one of all of those who constantly whine about
his actions take his place...  Yes, things might progress in a higher
tempo for a while, but sure as not they'd either collapse because of the
mental pressure, or cave in to the demands from everyone and let
everything _including_ the kitchen-sink into the archives and let
everyone's applications through.  Sure, we'd get even more packages
(hooray! Another CD to add to the eleven or so we already have...), and
more maintainers, but at what cost?

[snip]


Regards: David Weinehall
-- 
 /) David Weinehall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> /) Northern lights wander  (\
//  Maintainer of the v2.0 kernel   //  Dance across the winter sky //
\)  http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/(/   Full colour fire   (/

Re: gimp1.2: gimp package suggest non-free software

[Chris Cheney]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 01:12:10AM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote:
> Scripsit Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> > Anyway, on the given topic, are "reverse-suggests" possible?
> 
> Quoth debian-policy, section 7.2:
> 
> |Enhances
> |   This field is similar to Suggests but works in the opposite
> |   direction. It is used to declare that a package can enhance the
> |   functionality of another package.

Except for the fact that no tool supports Enhances... (or has that
changed?)

Chris


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Re: radiusd-freeradius history and future

[Miquel van Smoorenburg]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Steve Langasek  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 11:50:05AM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
>> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:15, Andreas Metzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>> wrote:
>> > > Or do you have to be root for getpwnam() to work on NIS accounts?
>
>> > In certain NIS configurations you can only access the hashed password
>> > if your query to the NIS server comes from a privileged port <=1024,
>> > i.e. afaict yes.
>
>> This is so ugly.
>
>Last I looked, there wasn't much in NIS that wasn't.  I think the amount
>of pain we should put other users through on account of NIS is very
>small (e.g., no longer asking about non-md5 passwords on install).

Sure. NIS works fine with md5 passwords. It's just that NIS is
ofcourse a network protocol, and on the network there might be
non-linux systems that do not support md5 passwords.

However in that case, usually the Linux box isn't the NIS
server but the Solaris box is. So it doesn't matter.

So go ahead, let Debian use md5 by default.

Mike.

Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[Steve McIntyre]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you write:
>On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 08:59:22PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote:
>> No way, man. We simply have to have people repeat the same fodder on
>> debian-devel over and over again. The three hundred odd mails per day
>> from the new fodder just aren't enough!
>
>Yes, but realy a lot of people at any level in Debian have strong negative
>feelings towards James (just to leave it to your immagination), for various
>reasons. There must be somthing true in it, and since i'm involved in Debian i
>never sow this situation to get better.

[snip]

>To say it shortly: if a lot of people don't like you, thay can't all be wrong
>about you (and believe me, there are really a lot).

Sorry, but this is crap. James is doing multiple jobs, several of
which are just about guaranteed to draw criticism and lots of people
not liking him. That's going to be part of the job when you're the
person who says "no"..

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Can't keep my eyes from the circling sky,
Tongue-tied & twisted, Just an earth-bound misfit, I...

Re: POSIX capabilities patch

[Marco d'Itri]

On Nov 12, Bernd Eckenfels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

 >And if i enable SETPCAP for init, will init drop that capability? Will it
 >pass it to all started programs?
See http://www.linux.it/~md/ssd.tgz .
No kernel hacks needed.

-- 
ciao, |
Marco | [3024 laxXsj4w1O.aE]

Re: radiusd-freeradius history and future

[Andreas Metzler]

Russell Coker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:15, Andreas Metzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
>> > Or do you have to be root for getpwnam() to work on NIS accounts?

>> In certain NIS configurations you can only access the hashed password
>> if your query to the NIS server comes from a privileged port <=1024,
>> i.e. afaict yes.

> This is so ugly.

> Maybe we should have a debconf option for whether the program in
> question is to be SETUID root or SETGID shadow?  Then the minority
> of people who use NIS can have full functionality, while the
> majority of people who don't use NIS can have better security.

Sounds feasible. (Of course if you insist you can already use
dpkg-statoverride today), a patch would look like this:

config
if ! dpkg-statoverride --list /sbin/unix_chkpwd 1>/dev/null 2>&1 ; then
# check if we are installing suid or not
RET=false
db_input medium libpam-modules/unix_chkpwd_SUID_bit || true
db_go
fi

postinst:
if [ "$1" = "configure" ] ; then
  # do nothing if local admin has overriden the permissions
  if ! dpkg-statoverride --list /sbin/unix_chkpwd 1>/dev/null 2>&1 ; then
RET=false
db_get libpam-modules/unix_chkpwd_SUID_bit
if [ "$RET" = "true" ]; then
  chown root:root /sbin/unix_chkpwd
  chmod 4755 /sbin/unix_chkpwd
else
  chown root:shadow /sbin/unix_chkpwd
  chmod 2755 /sbin/unix_chkpwd
fi
  fi
fi

 cu andreas

Re: radiusd-freeradius history and future

[Andreas Metzler]

Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 11:50:05AM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
>> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:15, Andreas Metzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>> wrote:
 Or do you have to be root for getpwnam() to work on NIS accounts?

>>> In certain NIS configurations you can only access the hashed password
>>> if your query to the NIS server comes from a privileged port <=1024,
>>> i.e. afaict yes.

>> This is so ugly.

> Last I looked, there wasn't much in NIS that wasn't.  I think the amount
> of pain we should put other users through on account of NIS is very
> small (e.g., no longer asking about non-md5 passwords on install).

Just for reference: NIS basically works fine with MD5-passwords as
long as all involved parties (server/clients) could handle them in
their local /etc/shadow or /etc/passwd.
   cu andreas

Re: gimp1.2: gimp package suggest non-free software

[Pierre Machard]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 08:31:21AM +0100, Mathieu Roy wrote:
> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a tapoté :
> 
> > On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Mathieu Roy wrote:
> >
> >> 2) Do you have any valid proof of what you claim? Please, avoid being
> >>a liar, this is a very bad attitude. Keep your personal feeling
> >>out of this mailing-list, I do not give a toss about it and I think
> >>that noone else does.
> >
> > A liar?  You have a very slant view on life.
> >
> > It's much better to say "you are mistaken" or "you are misinformed" then to
> > call someone a liar.  Because you have said it this way, it looks badly on
> > you, no matter what the other person has done.
> 
> So someone can tell whatever he wants without taking care of the
> truth?
> 
> I don't support that and I suppose I'll never do.
> 
> The matter to me is not how people looks like but what people
> says. And in this case, there were two options: a misinformation or a
> lie. With a so affirmative phrase, it is some kind of lie in any case:
> when you are not well informed, if you pretend to be, you commit some
> kind of lie, and your attitude is misleading for everybody.

M. Roy you don't understand that debian != GNU. As long as you don't
understand that, and by consequence do not understand the DFSG, I do not
see why you are anoying us.

The fact of claiming I am a liar shows mainly that you are an integrist.
When writing a bug report like that, one can't assume that you are
acting in favor of users. Debian is designed to the user, do not forget
that. 

As somebody told in this thread, if you do not want to see any
references to non-free/contrib write a patch for apt.
-- 
Pierre Machard
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://debian.org
GPG: 1024D/23706F87 : B906 A53F 84E0 49B6 6CF7 82C2 B3A0 2D66 2370 6F87



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Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 10:23:08AM +0100, David Weinehall wrote:
> A lot of people believe that Elvis still is alive, a lot of people used
> to believe in flogiston rather than oxygen, a lot of people "knew" that
> that world was flat...  The list goes on for ages.  Face it,
> that a lot of people have strong feelings about something just doesn't
> make it true; we have war, religion and modern financial theory as
> evidence for this.

I've nothing to face. If you don't prove me otherwise, what i've said stands.
It was proven that earth was not flat, it was probably proven that oxygen was
better thatn flogiston (I don't really know what both are), and Elvis... i'll
skip any superflous comment on this.

> As for James: if you are in a position where you decide who's to go in
> and who's not (as the DAM), and to decide _what_ goes in and what
> doesn't (as an FTP-master), you must:
[...]

You did absolutely misreaded what i've written: i've not meant that he should
not take unpopular decisions, but you where probaly focused on finding some
not very helpful argument for the discussion.

If you are in charge of any position in a community you inevitably get a
political role. You can take popular or unpopular decision, but in neither
case you can behave rudely or cut disuccion short or take any mail lightly.
You are discussing with people from other countries with different language
and different culture.  You _must_ take time and give your best to explaint
the reason of any choice you made because it's not obvious the the recipient
might understand. _THIS_ is the problem.

As for the DAM, i wander why an AM racommends an applicant, but the DAM does
not accept him. What does this mean? Is AM role relevant or in effect DAM is
the real one who decides? If the latter, why haveing AM? As you can see, this
has nothing to deal with popular or unpopular decision.

Do we want to talk about keyring?

ciao,
-- 
Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis  | Elegant or ugly code as well
aliases: Luca ^De [A-Z][A-Za-z\-]*[iy]'\?s$ | as fine or rude sentences have
Luca, a wannabe ``Good guy''.   | something in common: they
local LANG="[EMAIL PROTECTED]" | don't depend on the 
language.

Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 09:40:08AM +, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> Sorry, but this is crap. James is doing multiple jobs, several of
> which are just about guaranteed to draw criticism and lots of people
> not liking him. That's going to be part of the job when you're the
> person who says "no"..

What should you be sorry for if you refer to my mail as a crap? This is
hypocrete. You could have written those few rows in a lot of adifferent ways
instead of "this is crap". That's what i mean. Should i've been there in front
of you, you'd probably have never told me such things in person. That's a
pity.

BTW, He his doing a lot of jobs for us, tecnically well done, but socially a
disaster. And he can no more.

ciao,
-- 
Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis  | Elegant or ugly code as well
aliases: Luca ^De [A-Z][A-Za-z\-]*[iy]'\?s$ | as fine or rude sentences have
Luca, a wannabe ``Good guy''.   | something in common: they
local LANG="[EMAIL PROTECTED]" | don't depend on the 
language.

Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[Martin Michlmayr]

* Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003-11-13 05:00]:
> As for the DAM, i wander why an AM racommends an applicant, but the
> DAM does not accept him. What does this mean? Is AM role relevant or
> in effect DAM is the real one who decides? If the latter, why
> haveing AM?

Of course the DAM is the one who makes the decision; after all, he's
the only one with the authority to make the decision (read the
constitution).  The AM prepares a report which the DAM uses to form a
decision, but he doesn't necessarily have to form the same conclusions
as the AM.  Also note that the DAM's decision can be overridden.

> As you can see, this has nothing to deal with popular or unpopular
> decision.

Right, just take Eray as an example (and note that the NM committee
agreed 100% with the DAM's decision; yet the DAM got all the blame).
-- 
Martin Michlmayr
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: gimp1.2: gimp package suggest non-free software

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Thu, 2003-11-13 at 19:32, Roberto Suarez Soto wrote:
> On Nov/12, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > >   I don't see how making more packages available to our users is
> > > "lowering the quality of Debian in matter of freedom".
> > Oh, you think there's a positive correlation between quality and
> > quantity, do you? ;)
> 
>   Regarding options available to choose and women breasts' size,
> quantity is always quality ;-)

I simply disagree here... purely subjective and personal taste
though of course.

Sometimes I wonder how I'd feel if some spoke of men in such a
way. This occurs much less often than its opposite.

Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[Russell Coker]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:14, Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > Sorry, but this is crap. James is doing multiple jobs, several of
> > which are just about guaranteed to draw criticism and lots of people
> > not liking him. That's going to be part of the job when you're the
> > person who says "no"..
>
> What should you be sorry for if you refer to my mail as a crap? This is
> hypocrete. You could have written those few rows in a lot of adifferent
> ways instead of "this is crap". That's what i mean. Should i've been there
> in front of you, you'd probably have never told me such things in person.
> That's a pity.

Saying "this is crap" in response to something you strongly disagree with is 
pretty much standard practise in the Internet community.  It is done both 
online and off-line.

Anyone who wants to get involved in email debates or to go drinking with 
programmers should be able to handle such things.  If you can't handle such 
things then you shouldn't be criticising the social skills of other people.

The nature of our development process is somewhat combative.  If you search 
the archives of this list you will see many serious flame-wars, some of which 
produce positive outcomes.  You just have to learn to deal with these things.

Look on the bright side, having someone refer to your email as "crap" is 
better than being called a "nerd" at school, which I think happened to most 
people on this list and probably happened to you.  ;)

-- 
http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/   My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages
http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/  Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/  My home page

Re: Bug#202244 Speak-freely Removed from Debian

[Martin Michlmayr]

* Hamish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003-10-14 23:57]:
> > This package has been removed from Debian unstable because it is
> > orphaned upstream and has reached its end-of-life.
> 
> Speak-freely is not abandoned and should remain in Debian.

So is anyone interested in maintaining this?

-- 
Martin Michlmayr
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Bug#220401: ITP: linux-experimental -- Linux 2.4 kernel [EXPERIMENTAL PACKAGE]

[Matthew Garrett]

Robert Millan wrote:
>Just thought I should give you a better reply.
>On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 07:24:52PM +, Matthew Garrett wrote:
>> Robert, your (frankly autistic) worldview worries me. What do you
>> believe would be in a freebsd-kernel or netbsd-kernel package? What do
>> you believe would be in a linux-kernel package? When someone says
>> "Linux", do you think they generally mean something massively different
>> to when they say "NetBSD"? 
>
>These questions are ambigous. Any response I could came up would fit on them.
>The relevant question here is not what "someone generaly means", but rather
>what "something is".

No, when thinking about what packages contain, people are more likely to
use the general meaning of the word or phrase rather than a narrow
pedantic one.

>The following question would make more sense:
>
>  "Do you think Linux is something massively different than NetBSD?"
>
>(You could respond to it, btw)

The term "linux" is often used to mean an operating system based around
the Linux kernel. The term "NetBSD" is often used to mean an operating
system based around the kernel from NetBSD. In a specific, narrow
definition, Linux refers only to the kernel whereas NetBSD may refer to
the entire OS. This is not a widely understood definition. So, no, I
don't think they're massively different. When people say "I've just
installed linux", they're not just talking about the kernel.

Calling the package linux-kernel (or in this case, perhaps,
linux-kernel-experimental) resolves any ambiguity without making it any
less clear what the package contains. Where's the issue?
-- 
Matthew Garrett | [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: ITO several packages

[Martin Michlmayr]

* Sebastien J. Gross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003-10-22 22:08]:
> I would like to orphan some packages that I can't maintain any longer
> due to a lack of time or some which are obsolete today.
> 
> cvs-conf
> cwwm
> jpegoptim
> libfork-perl
> metalog
> pip

These packages still don't have a new maintainer.  Sebastien, which
packages are "obsolete today"?  I'll get those removes and properly
orphan the rest.

-- 
Martin Michlmayr
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: ITO several packages

[Martin Michlmayr]

* Jeremy T. Bouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003-10-22 17:35]:
>   I'll take a look at cvs-conf and see if it's something I would
> actually use as I've considered doing something with configurations in
> CVS recently for both work and home and this sounds like it might be a
> solution... If someone else is already using it and wants it I'll let it
> be otherwise after I have a chance to look at it I'll get back
> privately...

What happend to those plans?
-- 
Martin Michlmayr
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: gimp1.2: gimp package suggest non-free software

[Russell Coker]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:36, Zenaan Harkness <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Oh, you think there's a positive correlation between quality and
> > > quantity, do you? ;)
> >
> > Regarding options available to choose and women breasts' size,
> > quantity is always quality ;-)
>
> I simply disagree here... purely subjective and personal taste
> though of course.
>
> Sometimes I wonder how I'd feel if some spoke of men in such a
> way. This occurs much less often than its opposite.

Here's the URL for a rap song that speaks of men in such a way:
http://www.lyricsxp.com/lyrics/s/short_dick_man_20_fingers.html

It's funny how fast that song was pulled from the air, when rap songs saying 
the same (and worse) about women have been constantly on the air for the last 
15+ years.

As for the original claim about bigger always being better, there is plenty of 
evidence to the contrary.  When a woman has her breasts enlarged so much that 
she can't stand up properly most men won't find her attractive.

-- 
http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/   My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages
http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/  Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/  My home page

Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 11:02:26PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:
> Saying "this is crap" in response to something you strongly disagree with is 
> pretty much standard practise in the Internet community.  It is done both 
> online and off-line.
> 
> Anyone who wants to get involved in email debates or to go drinking with 
> programmers should be able to handle such things.  If you can't handle such 
> things then you shouldn't be criticising the social skills of other people.

Curiously, i go drinking with programmers very often, and this rarely happen.
I'm sorry you face it commonly (of course one can live with it). That's to me
means this is a not common behaviour, hence it is not supposed to know by
anyone.

> The nature of our development process is somewhat combative.  If you search 
> the archives of this list you will see many serious flame-wars, some of which 
> produce positive outcomes.  You just have to learn to deal with these things.

Flames make me sick, and fill my box of things i unfortunately can't tag as
spam. People flameing recall me of animals fighting. A primitive way of
interacting. I just ingnore them.
Of course i can live with people behaving this way, and i can handle them:
shouldn't i, i would have started yet another flame.

> Look on the bright side, having someone refer to your email as "crap" is 
> better than being called a "nerd" at school, which I think happened to most 
> people on this list and probably happened to you.  ;)

That's a point, despite the fact that i was never called a nerd or geek for
the simple reason i never behaved in such a way. Those who know me can tell
you. And i know more people who cannot even turn on a computer, than hakers,
geek, programmers and such. I pay that by not haveing the tecnical skill most
of you have: that's a trade off i accept and like.

ciao,
-- 
Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis  | Elegant or ugly code as well
aliases: Luca ^De [A-Z][A-Za-z\-]*[iy]'\?s$ | as fine or rude sentences have
Luca, a wannabe ``Good guy''.   | something in common: they
local LANG="[EMAIL PROTECTED]" | don't depend on the 
language.

Bug#219447: undeliverable mail user unknown

[Network Mail System]

**
**
WARNING: WinProxy has detected a virus in file
attached to this e-mail message!
The attachment has been automatically removed to
protect your network.
WinProxy Administrator: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11/13/03 08:21:56 
WinProxy (Version 5.0 R1b (5.0.0.18)) - http://www.Ositis.com/
Antivirus Vendor: Panda Software
Scan Engine Version: 2.10.1.6_3.1.5.211
Pattern File Version: 3.68403 (Timestamp: 2003/11/11 14:17:41)

Machine name: MANAGER1
Machine IP address: 0.0.0.0
Client: Manager1.WinProxy
Protocol: SMTP
Virus: "W32/Gibe.C.worm" found!
Attachment: dgkeuj.exe
**
**

Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 10:45:09PM +1100, Martin Michlmayr wrote:
> Also note that the DAM's decision can be overridden.

AFAICT, i never sow this to happen, but if you say so i take it for sure (but
i'd now like to have an example, just out of curiosity).

> Right, just take Eray as an example (and note that the NM committee
> agreed 100% with the DAM's decision; yet the DAM got all the blame).

Indeed you're right. To me we sohuld make things more open. Let's make
da-manager a mailing list (debian-dam?) with archive, so that evrything may be
read openly by anyone and things get commented by themselves[1]. The same
should be for ftpmaster: indeed we have debian-www, why not debian-ftp?

keyring is another important issue: this should be a list too. I also want to
read what happen there.

ciao,
[1] alternatively i would deprecate da-manager in favour of debian-newmaint
(since we already have a list for a similar purpose).
-- 
Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis  | Elegant or ugly code as well
aliases: Luca ^De [A-Z][A-Za-z\-]*[iy]'\?s$ | as fine or rude sentences have
Luca, a wannabe ``Good guy''.   | something in common: they
local LANG="[EMAIL PROTECTED]" | don't depend on the 
language.

Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[Pascal Hakim]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 08:00:07AM -0600, Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis wrote:
> > Right, just take Eray as an example (and note that the NM committee
> > agreed 100% with the DAM's decision; yet the DAM got all the blame).
> 
> Indeed you're right. To me we sohuld make things more open. Let's make
> da-manager a mailing list (debian-dam?) with archive, so that evrything may be
> read openly by anyone and things get commented by themselves[1]. The same
> should be for ftpmaster: indeed we have debian-www, why not debian-ftp?

A da-manager list would be a very bad idea. We do not want
people's rejection from Debian to be archived in a public list which
anyone can see. Imagine if searching for your name in google had "Luca
De Vitis is unsuitable to join debian due to ..." as its first hit?

If people who have been rejected want to bring the reasons why
they have been rejected in a public forum, then it should be their
choice, not Debian's.

Having others as open lists might be interesting as well, at
least from the aspect of letting people interested in helping figuring
out what's going on.

Cheers,

Pasc

Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[Lukas Geyer]

"Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> it was probably proven that oxygen was
> better thatn flogiston (I don't really know what both are)

He, this would be a great signature... (Luca, oxygen is the quite
essential stuff you breathe, constitutes about 20% of the air around
us...)

> If you are in charge of any position in a community you inevitably
> get a political role. You can take popular or unpopular decision,
> but in neither case you can behave rudely or cut disuccion short or
> take any mail lightly.  You are discussing with people from other
> countries with different language and different culture.  You _must_
> take time and give your best to explaint the reason of any choice
> you made because it's not obvious the the recipient might
> understand. _THIS_ is the problem.

No, in this particular case this was not at all the problem. The
original complaint explicitly stated that James' email was very polite
and also stated the reason for the rejection. In most of the other
conflicts surrounding James, it was not rudeness but lack of
communication which was mostly criticized. In the meantime, the NM
process has improved significantly, people are approved by the DAM
and, as I understand it, the waiting applicants got quite a lot of
feedback now. In fact, in the last DPL election I voted for Branden,
and one of the major reasons was the state of the NM process. I am
pleasantly surprised that Martin Michlmayr managed to improve the
situation without creating big conflicts, thanks to both him and James
Troup.

> Do we want to talk about keyring?

What is the current state there? Do you have any evidence of James'
rudeness in discussions about the keyring (I haven't) or is this all
just about a gut feeling that you don't like him? If you think that
James is not able to fulfill all his duties, it is up to us (or the
DPL) to propose others to help or replace him. However, I do not see
much basis in fact for your allegations of rudeness, so please either
substantiate it or stop spreading such accusations.

Lukas

Re: Bug#220401: ITP: linux-experimental -- Linux 2.4 kernel [EXPERIMENTAL PACKAGE]

[Robert Millan]

retitle 220401 ITP: kernel-linux-experimental -- Linux 2.4 kernel
thanks

I think you're very confused. Unfortunately, I don't have time for discussing
this with you. I'll just rename the package.

Now back to hacking.

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 12:02:17PM +, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> Robert Millan wrote:
> >Just thought I should give you a better reply.
> >On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 07:24:52PM +, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> >> Robert, your (frankly autistic) worldview worries me. What do you
> >> believe would be in a freebsd-kernel or netbsd-kernel package? What do
> >> you believe would be in a linux-kernel package? When someone says
> >> "Linux", do you think they generally mean something massively different
> >> to when they say "NetBSD"? 
> >
> >These questions are ambigous. Any response I could came up would fit on them.
> >The relevant question here is not what "someone generaly means", but rather
> >what "something is".
> 
> No, when thinking about what packages contain, people are more likely to
> use the general meaning of the word or phrase rather than a narrow
> pedantic one.
> 
> >The following question would make more sense:
> >
> >  "Do you think Linux is something massively different than NetBSD?"
> >
> >(You could respond to it, btw)
> 
> The term "linux" is often used to mean an operating system based around
> the Linux kernel. The term "NetBSD" is often used to mean an operating
> system based around the kernel from NetBSD. In a specific, narrow
> definition, Linux refers only to the kernel whereas NetBSD may refer to
> the entire OS. This is not a widely understood definition. So, no, I
> don't think they're massively different. When people say "I've just
> installed linux", they're not just talking about the kernel.
> 
> Calling the package linux-kernel (or in this case, perhaps,
> linux-kernel-experimental) resolves any ambiguity without making it any
> less clear what the package contains. Where's the issue?
> -- 
> Matthew Garrett | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

-- 
Robert Millan

"[..] but the delight and pride of Aule is in the deed of making, and in the
thing made, and neither in possession nor in his own mastery; wherefore he
gives and hoards not, and is free from care, passing ever on to some new work."

 -- J.R.R.T, Ainulindale (Silmarillion)


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Bug#220401: ITP: linux-experimental -- Linux 2.4 kernel [EXPERIMENTAL PACKAGE]

[Giacomo A. Catenazzi]

Robert Millan wrote:
On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 11:26:26AM -0600, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote:
> * Package name: linux-experimental
I really don't care either way, but would you consider using
kernel-linux-whatever instead?

I considered it, but it's redundant and unnecessary. I'll stick with the
name choosed by upstream.
upstream?
The discussion list is linux-kernel, the mirror system of upstream is 
kernel.org, under linux/kernel directory. If they don't put "kernel" in 
filename is only because is redundant with host and directory, but in 
dselect^Waptitude you have not such informations.
lusers know "linux" as whole OS, not for the kernel name, so try to help
also the novice users!

ciao
giacomo

Bug#220602: ITP: configure-thinkpad -- IBM ThinkPad configuration tool for GNOME

[Andrew Lau]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: configure-thinkpad
  Version : 0.1
  Upstream Author : Cheuksan Edward Wang 
* URL : http://tpctl.sourceforge.net/configure-thinkpad.html
* License : GPL
  Description : IBM ThinkPad configuration tool for GNOME

 
 The purpose of this tool is to make configuring ThinkPad easier. Its
 current focus is on the ThinkPad's power management systems. This GUI
 application uses GNOME 2 and is based on tpctl and ntpctl.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux espresso 2.4.23-pre9 #1 Mon Nov 10 16:37:06 EST 2003 i686
Locale: LANG=en_AU.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_AU.UTF-8


-- 
---
  Andrew "Netsnipe" LauComputer Sci. UNSW & Debian GNU/Linux
 
 GnuPG 1024D/2E8B68BD:  0B77 73D0 4F3B F286 63F1  9F4A 9B24 C07D 2E8B 68BD
 -
  "Nobody expects the Debian Inquisition!
 Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency!"
---


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis]

On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 01:12:50AM +1100, Pascal Hakim wrote:
>   A da-manager list would be a very bad idea. We do not want
> people's rejection from Debian to be archived in a public list which
> anyone can see. Imagine if searching for your name in google had "Luca
> De Vitis is unsuitable to join debian due to ..." as its first hit?

Why not: this would discourage people who try to join Debian without real
motivation.

BTW, we already have people rejection archived in debian-newmaint, so i do not
see this point.

ciao,
-- 
Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis  | Elegant or ugly code as well
aliases: Luca ^De [A-Z][A-Za-z\-]*[iy]'\?s$ | as fine or rude sentences have
Luca, a wannabe ``Good guy''.   | something in common: they
local LANG="[EMAIL PROTECTED]" | don't depend on the 
language.

Re: gimp1.2: gimp package suggest non-free software

[Adam Heath]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Mathieu Roy wrote:

> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a tapoté :
>
> > On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Mathieu Roy wrote:
> >
> >> 2) Do you have any valid proof of what you claim? Please, avoid being
> >>a liar, this is a very bad attitude. Keep your personal feeling
> >>out of this mailing-list, I do not give a toss about it and I think
> >>that noone else does.
> >
> > A liar?  You have a very slant view on life.
> >
> > It's much better to say "you are mistaken" or "you are misinformed" then to
> > call someone a liar.  Because you have said it this way, it looks badly on
> > you, no matter what the other person has done.
>
> So someone can tell whatever he wants without taking care of the
> truth?

No, of course not.  How the hell can you infer that by reading what I said?

When you are debating a point, whether truths or lies are being said, it
always looks better on you, if you follow the above.

You're response, in this manner, shows me that you always look for the bad in
everything, never the good.  These are the kinds of people that society needs
to lock away, as they are the miscreants(the murders, robbers, politicians).

> The matter to me is not how people looks like but what people
> says. And in this case, there were two options: a misinformation or a
> lie. With a so affirmative phrase, it is some kind of lie in any case:
> when you are not well informed, if you pretend to be, you commit some
> kind of lie, and your attitude is misleading for everybody.

You calling someone mistaken, or someone a liar, doesn't change what that
person said from wrong to right.  But you have a better chance of convincing
others, when you say it the former way.

If you call someone a liar, others are likely to ignore you, even if what the
other person said was wrong.

Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[Adam Heath]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 08:59:22PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote:
> > No way, man. We simply have to have people repeat the same fodder on
> > debian-devel over and over again. The three hundred odd mails per day
> > from the new fodder just aren't enough!
>
> Yes, but realy a lot of people at any level in Debian have strong negative
> feelings towards James (just to leave it to your immagination), for various
> reasons. There must be somthing true in it, and since i'm involved in Debian i
> never sow this situation to get better.

Just like some people dislike Branden Robinson, or me.

What does that have to do with anything?

(for reference, I have commit access to dpkg, apt, and debbugs.  this can
arguably be more important than accepting new packages into debian, as doing
something wrong with the above is very visible; ftpmaster is more of a hidden
thing)

Re: gimp1.2: gimp package suggest non-free software

[Adam Heath]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Chris Cheney wrote:

> Except for the fact that no tool supports Enhances... (or has that
> changed?)

Well, if we follow Manoj's advice, humans are tools, and they  understand
enhances, which means policy is allowed to talk about it.

If you don't agree with that, talk about it on -policy(ie, that policy should
not discuss enhances).

Re: Bug#212049: {Virus?} Newest Critical Upgrade

[Castro, Dennis]

Hey can you please remove my email from you r distribution
list thank you [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 

Dennis Castro

 (510)238-6977
Office

(510)330-5021 Pager 

 

 

Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[Gunnar Wolf]

Pascal Hakim dijo [Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 01:12:50AM +1100]:
>   A da-manager list would be a very bad idea. We do not want
> people's rejection from Debian to be archived in a public list which
> anyone can see. Imagine if searching for your name in google had "Luca
> De Vitis is unsuitable to join debian due to ..." as its first hit?

But it should be archived and somehow accessible. I think that it
could be archived at least the same way -private is: You need to be a
Debian developer in order to read the archives, but _ANY_ DD can do
it. That way, if someone asks me, you or any other DD why was someone
rejected, or in case the process' transparency or James' honestity are
(again) put in doubt, any DD can retrieve the right answer.

>   If people who have been rejected want to bring the reasons why
> they have been rejected in a public forum, then it should be their
> choice, not Debian's.

...But it should be possible.

Greetings,

-- 
Gunnar Wolf - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - (+52-55)5630-9700 ext. 1366
PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23
Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973  F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF

Re: gimp1.2: gimp package suggest non-free software

[Gunnar Wolf]

Adam Heath dijo [Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 10:45:38AM -0600]:
> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Chris Cheney wrote:
> 
> > Except for the fact that no tool supports Enhances... (or has that
> > changed?)
> 
> Well, if we follow Manoj's advice, humans are tools, and they  understand
> enhances, which means policy is allowed to talk about it.
> 
> If you don't agree with that, talk about it on -policy(ie, that policy should
> not discuss enhances).

But our users should not be expected to look at control files in order
to know what to install, should they?

Following this reasoning, we might suggest that policy only states the
mandatory fields in control, and any field not covered by policy
should just be ignored by our tools... That way, I could put this cool
line in my control files:

Greetings: Hi mom!

and it would parse just fine. And yes, I can ask my mom to go and
check if there is something fun in my packaging...

-- 
Gunnar Wolf - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - (+52-55)5630-9700 ext. 1366
PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23
Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973  F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF

Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 09:28:02AM -0500, Lukas Geyer wrote:
> He, this would be a great signature... (Luca, oxygen is the quite
> essential stuff you breathe, constitutes about 20% of the air around
> us...)

eh, dict.org was down so i could not check them. A quick google search showed
too many things to be sure (my primary doubt was with flogiston).

[...]
> and one of the major reasons was the state of the NM process. I am
> pleasantly surprised that Martin Michlmayr managed to improve the
> situation without creating big conflicts, thanks to both him and James
> Troup.

That's correct, but there still are unclear point in this workflow. The
problem is that a new complain pops up, this is yet another discussion with no
backlog, so i've to build my opinion from what happened in the past. The past
was not so happy with James (i still can't say that now is not like before).

> What is the current state there? Do you have any evidence of James'
[...]

Look, he is indifferent to me: i neither like nor i dislike him. There is
nothing personal against him.
I want things working: if people wants to complain, i would like to care of
their complains, but actually i can't because issues eveolved in private
mails, while he is doing a public service for Debian.

Can you tell? Cool, but i don't want to poll each DD to know about his
impression/experiance about James (as well as other people in our keypoint)
and his contribution. That's waht i meant.

ciao,
-- 
Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis  | Elegant or ugly code as well
aliases: Luca ^De [A-Z][A-Za-z\-]*[iy]'\?s$ | as fine or rude sentences have
Luca, a wannabe ``Good guy''.   | something in common: they
local LANG="[EMAIL PROTECTED]" | don't depend on the 
language.

Re: gimp1.2: gimp package suggest non-free software

[Adam Heath]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Gunnar Wolf wrote:

> But our users should not be expected to look at control files in order
> to know what to install, should they?
>
> Following this reasoning, we might suggest that policy only states the
> mandatory fields in control, and any field not covered by policy
> should just be ignored by our tools... That way, I could put this cool
> line in my control files:
>
> Greetings: Hi mom!
>
> and it would parse just fine. And yes, I can ask my mom to go and
> check if there is something fun in my packaging...

You can do that now.  I don't see what your point is.

My point, is that policy is describing a field, as being implemented, when the
tools have not implemented it yet.

When the tools finally do implement it, it might be discovered that what
policy says is wrong, and the tools have to do it differently.  This is
generally frowned against.

Besides, the policy czars have said publically on several occasions that
implementation should come before documentation in policy.

Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[Sven Luther]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 10:43:51AM -0600, Adam Heath wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 08:59:22PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote:
> > > No way, man. We simply have to have people repeat the same fodder on
> > > debian-devel over and over again. The three hundred odd mails per day
> > > from the new fodder just aren't enough!
> >
> > Yes, but realy a lot of people at any level in Debian have strong negative
> > feelings towards James (just to leave it to your immagination), for various
> > reasons. There must be somthing true in it, and since i'm involved in 
> > Debian i
> > never sow this situation to get better.
> 
> Just like some people dislike Branden Robinson, or me.
> 
> What does that have to do with anything?
> 
> (for reference, I have commit access to dpkg, apt, and debbugs.  this can
> arguably be more important than accepting new packages into debian, as doing
> something wrong with the above is very visible; ftpmaster is more of a hidden
> thing)

But one were lack of due diligence can slow the project down, especially
now that we are nearing the sarge release.

Still waiting for one of the ftp-masters to process my new
kernel-patch-2.4.22-powerpc packages needed for debian-installer support
on non pmac powerpc subarches. Well, i still have other stuff to do in
the meantime.

Friendly,

Sven Luther

Re: gimp1.2: gimp package suggest non-free software

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 11:19:54AM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote:

> But our users should not be expected to look at control files in order
> to know what to install, should they?

Users do this all the time, with tools like aptitude, apt-cache and dpkg
which display [information from] the control file.

-- 
 - mdz

Re: gimp1.2: gimp package suggest non-free software

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 08:32:21AM +0100, Mathieu Roy wrote:

> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a tapoté :
> 
> > On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Mathieu Roy wrote:
> >
> >> I think this is a serious bug: the functionality of the free version
> >> has been lowered to promote patent emcumbered package.
> >
> > Patented software isn't really non-free.
> 
> That's why I wrote "patent emcumbered package".

Below where you wrote "non-free" in the subject.

-- 
 - mdz

Victory Abah

[Quinn, Ryan PO]

To whom it may concern,
   I am writing you in response to an E-mail I got from a Mr. Victory Abah.
He said he wants to transfer some money to one of my accounts. I looked him
up on the web and the only thing I got from him was the request to transfer
152 million dollars to your account. Is this a guy ligit, did you pursue
this?

  Ryan Quinn

Re: apt-get problems

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 10:25:13AM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:

> Below are the errors I am getting from apt-get on some machines running
> recent unstable.  Is this a known bug or have I screwed up something?

http://bugs.debian.org/199653

It would be greatly appreciated if you could track this down; there's
information in the BTS that may help.

-- 
 - mdz

Re: radiusd-freeradius history and future

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 05:52:13PM +1100, Russell Coker wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:54, Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > This is so ugly.
> >
> > Last I looked, there wasn't much in NIS that wasn't.  I think the amount
> > of pain we should put other users through on account of NIS is very
> > small (e.g., no longer asking about non-md5 passwords on install).
> 
> Sounds reasonable.
> 
> I guess we could make it all install for non-NIS systems by default and
> assume that anyone who knows how to get NIS properly installed can sort
> out the necessary changes.
> 
> When comparing distributions they sometimes count the number of questions
> asked at installation, by such a comparison Debian does very badly.  While
> I don't think that we should be aiming for a dozen questions on an
> install, I think that we can productively remove some of the less common
> options.

I think a single "Will you be using NIS?" question would be justified; this
could provide defaults for md5 vs. crypt passwords and setuid-ness of
unix_chkpwd, and so those questions could be suppressed by default.

-- 
 - mdz

Re: Bug#219163: ITP: synaptic-touchpad -- Synaptics TouchPad driver for XFree86

[Branden Robinson]

On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 11:32:14AM +1100, Daniel Stone wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 11, 2003 at 06:58:15PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> > I think it would be really dumb for a driver author to re-use an
> > existing name for a different purpose.
> 
> Well, Synaptics could branch out and start making graphics cards, for
> example.

I think it would probably be a bad design to have input drivers and
display drivers stuffed into the same object.

That doesn't mean it won't happen, but it should be rare enough that an
ad-hoc approach will work.

-- 
G. Branden Robinson|  You live and learn.
Debian GNU/Linux   |  Or you don't live long.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |  -- Robert Heinlein
http://people.debian.org/~branden/ |


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Re: Bug#155583: radiusd-freeradius history and future

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 05:59:09PM +0100, Andreas Metzler wrote:

> You are wrong, unix_chkpwd does NIS (at least in the szenario I just
> tested). After changing unix_chkpwd from 4755 root:root to 2755
> root:shadow a NIS user can not unlock the terminal he has just locked
> himself with vlock anymore.
> 
> The NIS-server is configured with
> *  : *   : shadow.byname: port
> *  : *   : passwd.adjunct.byname : port
> 
> and
> 
> MERGE_PASSWD=false

The code does this:

if (strcmp(pwd->pw_passwd, "*NP*") == 0) {  /* NIS+ 
*/
uid_t save_uid;

save_uid = geteuid();
seteuid(pwd->pw_uid);
spwdent = getspnam(name);
seteuid(save_uid);

salt = x_strdup(spwdent->sp_pwdp);
} else {
salt = x_strdup(pwd->pw_passwd);
}

Obviously, seteuid isn't going to work when we aren't root.

-- 
 - mdz

Re: ITO several packages

[Milan P. Stanic]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 11:20:06PM +1100, Martin Michlmayr wrote:
> > cvs-conf
> > cwwm
> > jpegoptim
> > libfork-perl
> > metalog
> > pip
> 
> These packages still don't have a new maintainer.  Sebastien, which
> packages are "obsolete today"?  I'll get those removes and properly
> orphan the rest.

If someone want to sponsor me (I'm not DD) I'd like to take metalog.

Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[David Weinehall]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 11:23:01AM -0600, Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 09:28:02AM -0500, Lukas Geyer wrote:
> > He, this would be a great signature... (Luca, oxygen is the quite
> > essential stuff you breathe, constitutes about 20% of the air around
> > us...)
> 
> eh, dict.org was down so i could not check them. A quick google search
> showed too many things to be sure (my primary doubt was with
> flogiston).

A quick check tells me you wouldn't find it there anyway, so I'll
describe it to the best of my abilities:

According to alchemists and chemists a long time ago (well, a couple of
hundred years at least), Flogiston was a substance that
lacked colour, taste, scent and weight, which was a part of all matter
that could burn, hence its name (from the Greek Phlogiston, which means
combustion). According to this theory, fire in vacuum was possible.

Antoine Laurent Lavoisier proved later on that oxygen was needed for
combustion.

[snip]


Regards: David Weinehall
-- 
 /) David Weinehall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> /) Northern lights wander  (\
//  Maintainer of the v2.0 kernel   //  Dance across the winter sky //
\)  http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/(/   Full colour fire   (/

Re: Changes in t1lib.

[Branden Robinson]

On Mon, Nov 10, 2003 at 08:29:29PM +0100, Artur R. Czechowski wrote:
> Let me make myself clear.
> 
> There is t1lib 1.3.1 package in Debian. This is old and unsupported. My goal
> is to remove it from Debian.
>
> There is t1lib 5.0.0. I would like to have it as an only t1lib in 
> distribution.
> As I wrote it, it has some changes in API. Just replacing old version with
> current one result with FTBFS in some packages (well, probably in all
> dependant packages), what is not intended behavior. So we need a way to 
> both version available in archive. Policy requests, that packages should
> contain a soname in this case. That's why I did this fuss about changing
> packages name. If there is any error in my thinking, please point it out to
> me.
> 
> OTOH, other scenario is possible:
> 1. I left package with 1.3.1 version with names: t1lib1, t1lib-dev,
>t1lib-doc, t1lib1-bin. Version 5.0.0 is uploaded with names: libt1-5,
>libt1-dev, libt1-doc, t1lib-bin.
> 2. Dependant packages are modified and recompiled to use v5.0.0
> 3. 1.3.1 is removed, we left with libt1-5, libt1-dev, libt1-doc and
>t1lib-bin, for users convenience empty t1lib-dev and t1lib-doc with
>dependencies only will be added.
> 
> But it is not consist with Policy, section 8.1. If we agree, that this
> migration should be done before sarge release then I go on. If not - the
> first way will be realized. Most of all I would like to know RM's opinion
> (Anthony, are you there?).

I am not sure there is time to completely achieve step #2, which would
obviate the need for step #3 (I guess that's why you proposed this
"other scenario" :) ).  Since t1lib *is* a library, the necessity for
explicit migration with pseudopackages is greatly reduced, and possibly
eliminated for most practical purposes.

I suggest the following:

1. Rename existing t1lib (1.3.1) source package to t1lib-old or
   something like that.  Alter it to provide *only* the t1lib1 and
   t1lib-dev binary packages.  Update t1lib-dev's package description to
   indicate that this version of the library is strongly deprecated and
   that developers should port their software to t1lib 5.0.0 instead.
   Direct them to the libt1-dev package, and a URL to a migration guide
   if one is available.  You might also want to use a NEWS.Debian entry
   for this purpose.  I would also add a note to t1lib1's package
   description indicating that the package is only depended upon by
   packages which haven't been updated to use the newer version of the
   library yet.

2. Package t1lib 5.0.0 as source package t1lib, providing libt1-5,
   libt1-dev, libt1-doc, and libt1-bin (or t1lib-bin -- Policy doesn't
   suggest that you name this last item one way or the other).

3. Lean on the maintainers of t1lib-dependent packages to port their
   stuff to t1lib 5.0.0.  Given that it's release season, you'll
   probably meet with even more resistance than usual.  It might be more
   fruitful to work with package's upstreams.  You'll also need to
   identify any package relationships against t1lib-dev and t1lib-doc
   (and t1lib-bin, if you rename it to libt1-bin as I suggest), and file
   bugs against those packages requesting updates.

4. After sarge is released (or before, if by some miracle step 3 is
   completed before it is too deeply frozen), file a bug against
   ftp.debian.org requesting the removal of the t1lib-old source package
   (or whatever you called it).

That's one way to go about this that should not require any
pseudopackages.  Needless to say, steps 1 and 2 should happen in rapid
succession, or simultaneously.

-- 
G. Branden Robinson|I'm sorry if the following sounds
Debian GNU/Linux   |combative and excessively personal,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |but that's my general style.
http://people.debian.org/~branden/ |-- Ian Jackson


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Re: Changes in t1lib.

[Andreas Metzler]

Branden Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 [t1lib migration]
> I suggest the following:

> 1. Rename existing t1lib (1.3.1) source package to t1lib-old or
>   something like that.  Alter it to provide *only* the t1lib1 and
>   t1lib-dev binary packages.  Update t1lib-dev's package description to
>   indicate that this version of the library is strongly deprecated and
>   that developers should port their software to t1lib 5.0.0 instead.
>   Direct them to the libt1-dev package, and a URL to a migration guide
>   if one is available.  You might also want to use a NEWS.Debian entry
>   for this purpose.  I would also add a note to t1lib1's package
>   description indicating that the package is only depended upon by
>   packages which haven't been updated to use the newer version of the
>   library yet.

> 2. Package t1lib 5.0.0 as source package t1lib, providing libt1-5,
>   libt1-dev, libt1-doc, and libt1-bin (or t1lib-bin -- Policy doesn't
>   suggest that you name this last item one way or the other).

> 3. Lean on the maintainers of t1lib-dependent packages to port their
>   stuff to t1lib 5.0.0.  Given that it's release season, you'll
>   probably meet with even more resistance than usual.  It might be more
>   fruitful to work with package's upstreams.  You'll also need to
>   identify any package relationships against t1lib-dev and t1lib-doc
>   (and t1lib-bin, if you rename it to libt1-bin as I suggest), and file
>   bugs against those packages requesting updates.

> 4. After sarge is released (or before, if by some miracle step 3 is
>   completed before it is too deeply frozen), file a bug against
>   ftp.debian.org requesting the removal of the t1lib-old source package
>   (or whatever you called it).

> That's one way to go about this that should not require any
> pseudopackages.  Needless to say, steps 1 and 2 should happen in rapid
> succession, or simultaneously.

Another nice thing about this is that even if you only complete #2
before sarge's release it is a huge gain, backports will be a lot
easier.
  cu andreas
-- 
Hey, da ist ein Ballonautomat auf der Toilette!
Unofficial _Debian-packages_ of latest unstable _tin_
http://www.logic.univie.ac.at/~ametzler/debian/tin-snapshot/

Re: Bug#155583: radiusd-freeradius history and future

[Andreas Metzler]

Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 05:59:09PM +0100, Andreas Metzler wrote:
>> You are wrong, unix_chkpwd does NIS (at least in the szenario I just
>> tested). After changing unix_chkpwd from 4755 root:root to 2755
>> root:shadow a NIS user can not unlock the terminal he has just locked
>> himself with vlock anymore.

>> The NIS-server is configured with
>> *  : *   : shadow.byname: port
>> *  : *   : passwd.adjunct.byname : port

>> and

>> MERGE_PASSWD=false

> The code does this:

>   if (strcmp(pwd->pw_passwd, "*NP*") == 0) {  /* NIS+ 
> */
[...]
>   seteuid(save_uid);

>   salt = x_strdup(spwdent->sp_pwdp);
>   } else {
>   salt = x_strdup(pwd->pw_passwd);
>   }

> Obviously, seteuid isn't going to work when we aren't root.

That is NIS+ not NIS.
   cu andreas

Re: window manager recomendation

[Otto Wyss]

> Hello,
> 
> Hoping this won't turn into a flame war, I am looking for
> recommendations for a window manager. I tried quiet a few but none seem
> to fit the bill yet.
> 
I don't know if XFCE fits all your requirements but since it's not only
a window manager but a light weight desktop I like it. The application
menu is a little bit chaotic but usable.

O. Wyss

-- 
See "http://wxguide.sourceforge.net/"; for ideas how to design your app.

Re: Bug#155583: radiusd-freeradius history and future

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 09:26:09PM +0100, Andreas Metzler wrote:

> Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 05:59:09PM +0100, Andreas Metzler wrote:
> > The code does this:
> 
> >   if (strcmp(pwd->pw_passwd, "*NP*") == 0) {  /* NIS+ 
> > */
> [...]
> >   seteuid(save_uid);
> 
> >   salt = x_strdup(spwdent->sp_pwdp);
> >   } else {
> >   salt = x_strdup(pwd->pw_passwd);
> >   }
> 
> > Obviously, seteuid isn't going to work when we aren't root.
> 
> That is NIS+ not NIS.

Do we have two problems instead of one, then?  I suppose that since it
doesn't check the return code, and the euid should already be that of the
user whose password is being checked, it should work...some code should
probably be added to skip seteuid if it is not running setuid.

-- 
 - mdz

Re: Victory Abah

[Aaron M. Ucko]

"Quinn, Ryan PO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>I am writing you in response to an E-mail I got from a Mr. Victory Abah.
> He said he wants to transfer some money to one of my accounts. I looked him
> up on the web and the only thing I got from him was the request to transfer
> 152 million dollars to your account. Is this a guy ligit, did you pursue
> this?

The offer is almost certainly a scam; please see
.

-- 
Aaron M. Ucko, KB1CJC (amu at alum.mit.edu, ucko at debian.org)
Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] (NOT a valid e-mail address) for more info.

Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[Herbert Xu]

Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> too many things to be sure (my primary doubt was with flogiston).

Try searching for phlogiston instead.
-- 
Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 is out! ( http://www.debian.org/ )
Email:  Herbert Xu ~{PmV>HI~} <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Home Page: http://gondor.apana.org.au/~herbert/
PGP Key: http://gondor.apana.org.au/~herbert/pubkey.txt

Re: Victory Abah

[Eike Sauer]

Aaron M. Ucko schrieb:
> The offer is almost certainly a scam; please see
> .

You really mean he doesn't want to pay 152 million dollars
to everyone of us?!?
I'm very disappointed!

Ciao,
Eike

Re: window manager recomendation

[Serge Gebhardt]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:41:16 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Otto Wyss) wrote:

Hi,

> > Hoping this won't turn into a flame war, I am looking for
> > recommendations for a window manager. I tried quiet a few but none
> > seem to fit the bill yet.
> > 
> I don't know if XFCE fits all your requirements but since it's not
> only a window manager but a light weight desktop I like it. The
> application menu is a little bit chaotic but usable.

I'm quite fond of waimea, which is only a light-weight window manager
(no session restore etc). In the default config, it features nine
virtual desktops, which can easily be rotated by moving the mouse out of
the actual screen (some people might find this extremely annoying). If
you are not into these colourful desktops, give it a try.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/waimea
or apt-get install waimea :)

But there is one thing to mention: development seems to be stalled for
some time now, I can't complain about bugs though.

Cheers,
Serge

Re: ITO several packages

[Sebastien J. Gross]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 11:20:06PM +1100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> * Sebastien J. Gross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003-10-22 22:08]:
> > I would like to orphan some packages that I can't maintain any longer
> > due to a lack of time or some which are obsolete today.
> > 
> > cvs-conf
> > cwwm
> > jpegoptim
> > libfork-perl
> > metalog
> > pip
> 
> These packages still don't have a new maintainer.  Sebastien, which
> packages are "obsolete today"?  I'll get those removes and properly
> orphan the rest.

AFAIK cvs-conf had been odopted.
Other ones are not used by any package. Thus you can saftly remove them.

-- 
Sebastien J. Gross|   Debian GNU/Linux 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]|  http://www.debian.org
GPG: 1024g/AF0DDC9A AB35 1FFB 1268 56C0 452B  302E 2A25 8421 53BB A490

Re: window manager recomendation

[Marcelo E. Magallon]

 > But there is one thing to mention: development seems to be stalled
 > for some time now, I can't complain about bugs though.

 Take a look at kahakai: http://kahakai.sf.net/

-- 
Marcelo

Re: Bug#219163: ITP: synaptic-touchpad -- Synaptics TouchPad driver for XFree86

[Daniel Stone]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 01:58:44PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 11:32:14AM +1100, Daniel Stone wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 11, 2003 at 06:58:15PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> > > I think it would be really dumb for a driver author to re-use an
> > > existing name for a different purpose.
> > 
> > Well, Synaptics could branch out and start making graphics cards, for
> > example.
> 
> I think it would probably be a bad design to have input drivers and
> display drivers stuffed into the same object.
> 
> That doesn't mean it won't happen, but it should be rare enough that an
> ad-hoc approach will work.

Right, but I'm just saying that you'd then have to have
xfree86-driver-synaptics-input and xfree86-driver-synaptics-graphics, or
whatever ... a more realistic example is Intel, who seem to be enjoying
their current i8??G hegemony. Ad-hoc should still, as you say, work.

-- 
Daniel Stone<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Debian X Strike Force:http://people.debian.org/~branden/xsf/


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Uninstallable packages testing/sarge

[Brian May]

Hello,

If a package is uninstallable on testing, is it appropriate
to file a bug report against it, even though it might be OK
on unstable?

If a bug report is filled, then people can become aware of the
problem, preferably before sarge is released..

On the other hand, it could irritate the maintainer who can't
do anything about it, perhaps because the problem is fixed
in unstable.

Examples:

gnome-desktop-data (conflicts against the old version of gnome-core in
testing).

kde: depends on broken packages:
kfind: conflicts with old kdebase-libs in testing
etc... (total 21 packages marked as broken in aptitude when selecting
kde)
-- 
Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: apt-get problems

[Russell Coker]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:59, Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Something in your login chain is setting SIGCHLD to ignore.  Check your
> shell, terminal, etc.

Thanks for the information.

I am using pam 0.77 that I compiled myself (Debian is still at 0.76).  0.77 
changes the code for running unix_chkpwd to set SIGCHLD to ignore, it sets it 
back again later but there seems to be a bug in this code.

Adding the option "noreap" to the pam_unix.so line in /etc/pam.d/common-auth 
fixed this (giving pam 0.76 functionality in regard to SIGCHLD).

I don't think that the same problem would occur on a non-SE Linux system (or a 
system running an older version of my SE Linux policy) as it will permit 
direct /etc/shadow access and not need unix_chkpwd to be run from the login 
process.

Also I have not compiled pam 0.77 for woody, so the problems experienced by 
woody users could not be related unless someone else has built it.

Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[Russell Coker]

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:24, Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > A da-manager list would be a very bad idea. We do not want
> > people's rejection from Debian to be archived in a public list which
> > anyone can see. Imagine if searching for your name in google had "Luca
> > De Vitis is unsuitable to join debian due to ..." as its first hit?
>
> Why not: this would discourage people who try to join Debian without real
> motivation.

I think that we have more of a problem of people being afraid to contribute 
because of the fear of undue criticism or rejection than we have of unworthy 
people joining.

The number of people who have been rejected is small.  The number of people 
who are good coders who could contribute to Debian if they chose is much 
larger.

-- 
http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/   My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages
http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/  Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/  My home page

Re: Uninstallable packages testing/sarge

[Colin Watson]

On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 11:31:59AM +1100, Brian May wrote:
> If a package is uninstallable on testing, is it appropriate
> to file a bug report against it, even though it might be OK
> on unstable?
> 
> If a bug report is filled, then people can become aware of the
> problem, preferably before sarge is released..
> 
> On the other hand, it could irritate the maintainer who can't
> do anything about it, perhaps because the problem is fixed
> in unstable.

Packages that are uninstallable purely due to dependencies, as opposed
to broken maintainer scripts, are already tracked here:

  http://ftp-master.debian.org/testing/testing_probs.html

  (ditto stable_probs, unstable_probs)

... so there's usually not a great deal of point if the package is fixed
in unstable. As you say, there's often not much the maintainer can do
about it in that case. The people who work on the state of testing
directly are more likely to notice things in testing_probs.html anyway.

> Examples:
> 
> gnome-desktop-data (conflicts against the old version of gnome-core in
> testing).

We do need to get meta-gnome2 into testing anyway.

> kde: depends on broken packages:
> kfind: conflicts with old kdebase-libs in testing
> etc... (total 21 packages marked as broken in aptitude when selecting
> kde)

This is definitely known about; a number of bugs have already been
filed.

Cheers,

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Bug#155583: radiusd-freeradius history and future

[Sam Hartman]

> "Matt" == Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Matt> I think a single "Will you be using NIS?" question would be
Matt> justified; this could provide defaults for md5 vs. crypt
Matt> passwords and setuid-ness of unix_chkpwd, and so those
Matt> questions could be suppressed by default.

I disagree.  Debian is sufficiently hard to install that developers of
security software I've asked to install it have been frustrated to the
point of not using it by the number of questions.  I believe adding questions 
about NIS would be inappropriate.

I'd rather see a solution where we have some nis support package that
makes unix_chkpwd setuid root when that support package is installed.

Re: gimp1.2: gimp package suggest non-free software

[Branden Robinson]

On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 04:38:25PM +0100, Eike Sauer wrote:
> As far as I know(*), the patent is still valid in Europe and Japan
> until mid 2004. Shouldn't this matter for an international project?

What makes you think sarge will have been released by then?

8-)

-- 
G. Branden Robinson|If you wish to strive for peace of
Debian GNU/Linux   |soul, then believe; if you wish to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |be a devotee of truth, then
http://people.debian.org/~branden/ |inquire. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


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Re: gimp1.2: gimp package suggest non-free software

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:36:56 -0600 (CST), Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
>> But our users should not be expected to look at control files in
>> order to know what to install, should they?
>>
>> Following this reasoning, we might suggest that policy only states
>> the mandatory fields in control, and any field not covered by
>> policy should just be ignored by our tools... That way, I could put
>> this cool line in my control files:
>>
>> Greetings: Hi mom!
>>
>> and it would parse just fine. And yes, I can ask my mom to go and
>> check if there is something fun in my packaging...

> You can do that now.  I don't see what your point is.

> My point, is that policy is describing a field, as being
> implemented, when the tools have not implemented it yet.

Excuse me? Exactly what is described as having been
 implemented? The field allows the maintainer to express a
 relationship, and people reading the package description to realize
 that the relationship exists.

The fact that the tool authors have not seen fit to implement
 some functionality has nothing to do with policy (despite what you
 may think, policy is not dpkg documentation).

manoj
-- 
Money and women are the most sought after and the least known of any
two things we have. The Best of Will Rogers
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
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Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 02:14:18 -0600, "Luca  <- De Whiskey's - De Vitis" <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>> said: 

> On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 08:59:22PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote:
>> No way, man. We simply have to have people repeat the same fodder
>> on debian-devel over and over again. The three hundred odd mails
>> per day from the new fodder just aren't enough!

> Yes, but realy a lot of people at any level in Debian have strong
> negative feelings towards James (just to leave it to your
> immagination), for various reasons.

And a number of other people, also at various levels of
 Debian, like James, and respect the work he has put in.  The point? 

> There must be somthing true in it,

I think you really need to examine your understanding of
 causation.  Lots of people hold a view, so it must be true?

> and since i'm involved in Debian i never sow this situation to get
> better.


> To say it shortly: if a lot of people don't like you, thay can't all
> be wrong about you (and believe me, there are really a lot).

Hell yes they can.


And what about the other people that Like James? Can they too
 not be wrong?

manoj
-- 
"Happiness is not a destination.  It's the trip." anon
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
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Re: ftpmaster accepts packages that have been rejected a few days ago

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:09:43 +1100, Russell Coker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:24, Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>> >A da-manager list would be a very bad idea. We do not want
>> > people's rejection from Debian to be archived in a public list
>> > which anyone can see. Imagine if searching for your name in
>> > google had "Luca De Vitis is unsuitable to join debian due to
>> > ..." as its first hit?
>>
>> Why not: this would discourage people who try to join Debian
>> without real motivation.

> I think that we have more of a problem of people being afraid to
> contribute because of the fear of undue criticism or rejection than
> we have of unworthy people joining.

I wish I could agree with that.  However, looking at some of
 the people in the project, I am afraid I can not in all honesty agree
 with this nice sentiment.

manoj
-- 
Vila: "I think I have just made the biggest mistake of my life."
Orac: "It is unlikely.  I would predict there are far greater mistakes
waiting to be made by someone with your obvious talent for it."
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
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