Re: i386 compatibility & libstdc++

[Martin v. Löwis]

Arnd Bergmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> It would surely be nice to see performance numbers from actual
> applications. After all, the applications are normally doing
> some things besides low level atomic operations.

Indeed, it would be interesting to find out how often applications
invoke these operations. Notice, however, that primitive operations
like std::string manipulation use these functions, so they *are* used
quite often.

> Nevertheless, I think it would be best to also start a full 
> Debian/i686 port which will be 100% compatible with Debian on i386 
> except that it only runs on PentiumPro compatible machines,
> i.e. Pentium 2/3/4/M, Xeon, Celeron, Athlon, Duron and Opteron 
> but not Pentium, K5, K6 and most VIA/cyrix chips.

I think it would be best to start a port that stops supporting i386,
period, both for performance and compatibility reasons.

Regards,
Martin

Re: libstdc++... Help please

[Anthony Towns]

On Tue, Apr 29, 2003 at 02:08:33PM -0500, Chris Cheney wrote:
> Woody was effectively frozen around Jan 2002, no major changes to
> packages were permitted, etc. 

I'm sorry, but you're still wrong. No major changes to subsystems were
allowed -- like switching to KDE 3, or new Qt, or new Gnome, or new
perl. Considering we still don't have those in a releasable state, I'm
not really bothered by that. Normal packages could get changes as long
as they weren't uploaded much later than the beginning of April.

> The fact that other distributions make releases 2 - 3 times a year 
> and debian still does multi year releases

...is not a comment I'm going to accept from someone who's listed as the
maintainer of a swathe of packages which have been in an unreleasable
state for over a month.

If you want to release ever four to six months, you can't leave bugs
llike #147762 open for a year.

> Right now we generally close a bug once it goes
> into unstable but that bug that was just fixed probably still exists in
> testing.

Right now we have 20,000 open bugs in unstable, almost 700 of which are
release critical. There are some 600 packages uninstallable on i386 in
unstable. By the best estimate we have available, there are around 585
RC bugs in testing, and 7 uninstallable packages.

If you would like to do anything about any of this -- fix bugs in
unstable, fix bugs in testing, provide security updates for testing --
you're welcome to.

> In general I don't think its a good idea for a package to having only
> one maintainer. 

So get some helpers. No one's stopping you.

Cheers,
aj

-- 
Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred.

  ``Dear Anthony Towns: [...] Congratulations -- 
you are now certified as a Red Hat Certified Engineer!''


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fixed libstdc++5 package

[Matthias Klose]

A fixed libstdc++ package (0pre7) has been uploaded to incoming. You
can get it from

http://ftp-master.debian.org/~doko/gcc-3.3/

for i386 as well. Another workaround is to keep or reinstall the 0pre5
package (it's currently in sarge/testing).

Sorry for messing up unstable, I did the tests on a remote machine,
which doesn't have installed menu or any other package
affected. Changed that.

Matthias

Btw, looking at the reports, I see 30 submitted from i386 architectures,
one from a powerpc machine, none from other architectures, although all
architectures are affected. Conclusions? ;-)

Re: New virtual package: festival-voice (bug#112565)

[Andrew Pollock]

On Thu, Apr 17, 2003 at 05:15:44PM +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> The festival speech syntesizer needs at least one voice file. I'd like to
> use a virtual package named "festival-voice" so that people cannot install
> it without one, which is a problem (see the above bug).

Last time I looked, the festival packages appeared to be very 
unmaintained. I think I tried contacting the maintainer without success.

Andrew

Re: /run/, resolvconf and read-only root

[Thomas Hood]

Whether we end up with "/run/, resolvconf and read-only root"
depends a lot on whether the maintainers of the affected packages
support the project.  So far the response has not been positive.
Here is a quick summary for the packages that were on my TODO list.

Creating /run/
  base-files Change policy first
  pamNot convinced; wait and see
  login  Perhaps; change policy first
  sysvinit   (no reply)
  util-linux (no reply)

Implementing variable resolver configuration
  pump   OK
  ppp(no reply)
  pppconfig  (no reply)
  ifupdown   Don't bother me

Moving variable files out of /etc/
  cupsys OK
  util-linux Looks OK
  sysvinit   (no reply)
  ppp(no reply)
  pppconfig  (no reply)
  linuxlogo  No + sarcasm

-- 
Thomas Hood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: aag - wrapper for apt-get with support for recommend and suggests field

[Joshua Kwan]

On Tue, Apr 29, 2003 at 11:43:38PM -0400, Daniel Burrows wrote:
>   Try running apt in an up-to-date unstable.  (this isn't apt's fault,
> of course)

Ah, yeah, I downgraded and put libstdc++5 on hold the second shit
started flowing downhill (ie with menu) :)

Regards
Josh

-- 
New PGP public key: 0x27AFC3EE


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Re: fixed libstdc++5 package

[Peter Makholm]

Matthias Klose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Btw, looking at the reports, I see 30 submitted from i386 architectures,
> one from a powerpc machine, none from other architectures, although all
> architectures are affected. Conclusions? ;-)

The general i386-user is so stupid that they can't handle running
unstable?

-- 
 Peter Makholm |  There are 10 kinds of people. Those who count in
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] |binary and those who don't
 http://hacking.dk |  

Re: New virtual package: festival-voice (bug#112565)

[Martin Michlmayr]

* Andrew Pollock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2003-04-30 17:26]:
> On Thu, Apr 17, 2003 at 05:15:44PM +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> > The festival speech syntesizer needs at least one voice file. I'd like to
> > use a virtual package named "festival-voice" so that people cannot install
> > it without one, which is a problem (see the above bug).
> Last time I looked, the festival packages appeared to be very 
> unmaintained. I think I tried contacting the maintainer without success.

Matthias Urlichs is taking over the festival packages.

-- 
Martin Michlmayr
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Backporting a package from unstable to stable

[Andreas Metzler]

Junichi Uekawa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[Backporting]
>> Is it as simple as using something like pbuilder and tweaking the 
>> Build-Depends to match the versions of the packages that are in stable?

> To answer the question, the answer is 'no, not always'.

> You need some try-and-error, and usually backporting one package
> requires backporting of another. However, many people do it due to 
> their needs.

> The biggest stumbling block is probably debhelper; if you could ignore
> that, things would be pretty straightforward (in most cases).

Other stumbling blocks include po2debconf and (for library packages)
the GCC 3.2 transition - if you are backporting libfoo1c102 you have
to either undo the the transition and re-rename the package again or
compile it with a backport of GCC3.2.
   cu andreas

Re: Announcing Debian Package Tags

[Emile van Bergen]

Hi,

(sorry to respond)

On Tue, Apr 29, 2003 at 07:35:47PM -0400, Colin Walters wrote:

> On Tue, 2003-04-29 at 14:32, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> > On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:24:19 -0400, David Roundy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 
> 
> > To be precise, you said "Maybe novices should only be shown
> >  gui programs after all". Not that novices should be allowed to decide
> >  to only view gui programs IF THEY WISH, as you said later. The first
> >  message impled that some one other than novices decides what to show
> >  them, then you toned it down to being a choice of the end user, which
> >  is acceptable.
> 
> Manoj, the topic here is tuning Debian for different audiences.  Believe
> it or not there are a huge number of people in the world for whom if you
> said "terminal application" or "gui" they just stare at you blankly.  In
> fact they comprise the vast majority of people in the world.  For most
> of these people, most console applications are just not usable.

Of course they stare at you blankly, because they are very technical
terms. They just want to use the computer for what they need it for.

But some people seem to chronically forget that it's just a few years
ago that end users needed to type

C:\> cd wp51
C:\> wp

in order to launch their wordprocessor. Most also learned how to copy
files around with "copy". 

People regarded these commands as fully intended for the end users, and
they were used by the end users. It was just part of operating the
computer.

I object to any idea that a command line and non-computer-savvy users
don't match. In a lot of cases, there's just as much learning involved
in GUI-operated computers, and it often doesn't achieve much more
productivity in the end.

GUIs tend to be a lot more modal (opening and closing windows!) than a
command line. People often have trouble keeping track of "where they
are", and "how to get from a to b" in GUI applications. The transition
from a to b (eg. close window) is often a lot different from going from
b to a (eg. find application in launcher, start application), and this
modality is hard, because most things in the world don't work that way.

A command line is always the same command line (the only modal behaviour
is when you type a quote, causing the next prompt to be different).
Also, people tend to have a lot larger memory for words than for images
and unpronounceable hieroglyphs (icons, and -- shudder -- tool bars).

It's not that I think GUIs are bad in any way. It's just that they are
vastly overrated by a lot of people. Just because they're seen often
nowadays don't make them "natural", remember that. 

Cheers,


Emile.

-- 
E-Advies - Emile van Bergen   [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
tel. +31 (0)70 3906153   http://www.e-advies.nl


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Re: fixed libstdc++5 package

[Jérôme Marant]

En réponse à Matthias Klose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Btw, looking at the reports, I see 30 submitted from i386
> architectures,
> one from a powerpc machine, none from other architectures, although
> all
> architectures are affected. Conclusions? ;-)

Let's drop the others? };->

--
Jérôme Marant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

http://marant.org

Re: New virtual package: festival-voice (bug#112565)

[Matthias Urlichs]

Hi,

On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 07:26:11 +, Andrew Pollock wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 17, 2003 at 05:15:44PM +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
>> The festival speech syntesizer needs at least one voice file. I'd like
>> to use a virtual package named "festival-voice" so that people cannot
>> install it without one, which is a problem (see the above bug).
> 
> Last time I looked, the festival packages appeared to be very
> unmaintained. I think I tried contacting the maintainer without success.

This is why I am its new maintainer.

Current status: Ardo van Rangelrooij <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> has agreed to
check+upload the packages for me.

I am not yet a DD; waiting for my AM to either tell me that he needs
something more from me, or to OK my application.  ;-)

I hope they'll have time this weekend.

-- 
Matthias

Re: New virtual package: festival-voice (bug#112565)

[Matthias Urlichs]

Hi,

On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 04:16:42 +, Matthew Palmer wrote:
>> Policy requires discussing new virtual packages on d-d...
> 
> Unless the virtual package is only to be used amongst a group of
> cooperating packages (Policy section 2.3.5).  I think this would
> qualify.
> 
I don't know whether the voice data is useful for any other software, and
I'm a new developer, so I thought I'd err on the side of caution and ask.

> If multiple packages containing the data can be installed, though, you
> will of course need to use the alternatives system to manage which one
> gets used.
> 
That is controlled via festival directly. Using alternatives is probably
not right in this case; there's a system-wide default file where root can
enter the default. You don't use alternatives for the system-wide default
choice of 75- vs. 100-dpi fonts either; the same applies here, IMHO.
-- 
Matthias

Re: i386 compatibility & libstdc++

[Sven Luther]

On Sun, Apr 27, 2003 at 12:52:11PM -0400, Anthony DeRobertis wrote:
> On Sat, 2003-04-26 at 03:56, Chris Cheney wrote:
> 
> > I also find it hard to believe that the majority of our users do not
> > have or can not purchase a system that is less than 7 years old.
> 
> I have a brand new 486-class system with 32MB of RAM. It's less than 6
> months old.
> 
> Please explain how I can get a similar system, running on a similar
> amount of power, and with no moving parts (i.e., no fans) using, even a
> P-II.

Mi Micro ATX pegasos motherboard with 600MHz G3 CPU is fanless, sure the
750Cxe should consume around 3-5 W or something such, but i hear the
750Fx used in the ibooks consumes even less.

Friendly,

Sven Luther

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Re: libstdc++... Help please

[Jesus Climent]

On Tue, Apr 29, 2003 at 12:45:32PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> 
> Nope. We need ourselves to play with unstable - but unstable is not up
> for testing. That's what *testing* is for! :-)
> 
> Ideally, Sid should stay as a developer testbed. In fact, when I started
> using it, I got disappointed because it is not unstable at all. I have
> only had a major (for me) problem once or twice.

I agree with this statement.

During the gcc transition, I kept thinking why *unstable* had to be kept
*stable*.

I had the idea that stopping the upgrades, rebuilding *all* the packages with
the new version of the compilers and reinitiating the upgrades could solve the
problem which otherwise has caused a great deal of delay.

But I might be wrong, of course.

mooch

-- 
Jesus Climent | Unix SysAdm | Helsinki, Finland | pumuki.hispalinux.es
GPG: 1024D/86946D69 BB64 2339 1CAA 7064 E429  7E18 66FC 1D7F 8694 6D69
--
 Registered Linux user #66350 proudly using Debian Sid & Linux 2.4.20

Where are you going, Starfish and Friends?
--Chad (Charlie's Angels)

Re: fixed libstdc++5 package

[Mark Brown]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 09:23:39AM +0200, Matthias Klose wrote:

> Btw, looking at the reports, I see 30 submitted from i386 architectures,
> one from a powerpc machine, none from other architectures, although all
> architectures are affected. Conclusions? ;-)

Users of non-i386 architectures are generally the sort of thoughtful and
considerate people who check the BTS before filing bugs.  Obviously.

-- 
"You grabbed my hand and we fell into it, like a daydream - or a fever."

Re>$B9f30(B! $B?M5$(B200 $B!s(BUP$BCf!*!*(B

[drcxezeexwtc2fdq7u5v]

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How to upgrade package which changed syntax (new programs)

[Ondrej Sury]

Hello,

I am packaging relay-ctrl package which is tool how to make pop3be4smtp for
qmail based systems.

Versions before 2.53 worked by compiling tcp.smtp.cdb database each time
new IP was authorized and no modification of smtp service was neccessary.

>From version 3.0 you need to modify all services (POP3, SMTP and IMAP) and
you also have to change existing POP3 installations, because there was
significant change in design.

Small example:

syntax before:
for pop3:
  tcpserver 0 110 qmail-popup checkpassword relay-ctrl-allow qmail-pop3d
for smtp:
  tcpserver -x /etc/tcp.smtp.cdb 0 25 qmail-smtpd

syntax now:
for pop3:
  envdir /etc/relay-ctrl relay-ctrl-chdir tcpserver 0 110 qmail-popup 
checkpassword relay-ctrl-allow qmail-pop3d
for smtp:
  envdir /etc/relay-ctrl relay-ctrl-chdir tcpserver 0 25 relay-ctrl-check 
qmail-smtpd

Since there is no automatic configuration for relay-ctrl and each user has
to setup his own configuration (and he may use different methods how to do
it: debian way (rc.d) or supervise scripts), there is no way how to do
automatic conversion.  Question is how to make upgrade less painfull for
all, I think about two methods:

1. make new package named relay-ctrl-3 which conflicts with relay-ctrl package
2. put BIG DISCLAIMER in pre-inst of 3.0 version of package

What do you people think?

Ondrej.

-- 
Ondrej Sury - co/CTOGlobe Internet s.r.o. http://globe.cz/
Tel: +420(2)35365000 Fax: +420(2)35365009 Planickova 1, 162 00 Praha 6

Re: libstdc++... Help please

[Matthias Urlichs]

Hi,

On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:22:33 +, Jesus Climent wrote:
> I had the idea that stopping the upgrades, rebuilding *all* the packages
> with the new version of the compilers and reinitiating the upgrades
> could solve the problem which otherwise has caused a great deal of
> delay.

If I understood correctly, part of the problem is/was that some of the
rebuilds simply didn't work because of problems with the new compilers.

The current tools don't allow programs of arch X into testing if they fail to
build on arch Y. I think that in general this is a good idea.

I don't know if this is comparable, but my experience with non-ix86 Linux
kernels is that if the people responsible for them allow their version to
fall behind on the bleeding-edge kernel, the resulting split might be
permanent. :-/

-- 
Matthias

Re: fixed libstdc++5 package

[James Troup]

Matthias Klose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Btw, looking at the reports, I see 30 submitted from i386 architectures,
> one from a powerpc machine, none from other architectures, although all
> architectures are affected. Conclusions? ;-)

Well, duh, let's see.  Several architectures' build were either broken
by your libstdc++ i386 vs. i486 changes (arm), unrelated issues
(libc-sparc64 for sparc) or simply decided that maybe it was a good
idea to not upload such hideously broken packages even if they got a
''successful'' build log?

I mean, sheesh, poking fun at underused architectures is all well and
good (apparently), but you could at least pick a reasonable example...

-- 
James

Re: libstdc++... Help please

[Björn Stenberg]

Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> If I understood correctly, part of the problem is/was that some of the
> rebuilds simply didn't work because of problems with the new compilers.
> 
> The current tools don't allow programs of arch X into testing if they fail to
> build on arch Y. I think that in general this is a good idea.

I disagree. The net effect is that the program gets less testing, resulting in 
less bugs found and fixed.

> I don't know if this is comparable, but my experience with non-ix86 Linux
> kernels is that if the people responsible for them allow their version to
> fall behind on the bleeding-edge kernel, the resulting split might be
> permanent. :-/

The big difference is that one kernel version is not allowed to stop the 
progress in all others. If a non-ix86 kernel falls behind, only that kernel 
suffers. In Debian, all ports suffer if one port breaks.

-- 
Björn

Re: Announcing Debian Package Tags

[Matthias Urlichs]

Hi,

On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:38:30 +, Emile van Bergen wrote:
> people tend to have a lot larger memory for words than for images and
> unpronounceable hieroglyphs (icons, and -- shudder -- tool bars).

Not to nitpick, but people, and indeed entire cultures, for which this
isn't true -- because written words and symbols are essentially the same
thing to them -- _do_ exist. (And did, historically. Ancient Egypt comes
to mind. If you believe kooks^wpeople like Mr. EvDaeniken, they even had
[alien visitors with] computers. ;-)

-- 
Matthias

RFA: sbuild -- Tool for building Debian binary packages from Debian sources

[Rick Younie]

Missing X-Debbugs-CC?

- Forwarded message from Rick Younie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -

From: Rick Younie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:00:39 -0700
To: Debian Bug Tracking System <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RFA: sbuild -- Tool for building Debian binary packages from Debian
sources

Package: wnpp
Version: unavailable; reported 2003-04-28
Severity: normal

I request an adopter for the sbuild package.
The package description is:
 sbuild is part of a suite of programs -- consisting of
 wanna-build, buildd and sbuild -- written by Roman Hodek and
 used by most architectures to build binary packages from source
 packages.  buildd schedules work from information it gets from
 wanna-build; sbuild does the grunt-work.
 .
 sbuild can do its work in chroots so both stable and unstable
 environments can be used on the same machine.  Useful for, say,
 building the latest unstable packages against stable library
 versions.  And by keeping only essential and build-essential
 in the chroots, you can find the correct build dependencies for
 a package.

I don't have time maintain sbuild properly; it deserves better.

The adopter should be a developer to check out the sbuilds on
the various buildd machines for improvements (they all vary a
bit) and should have decent bandwidth to fix the chroot building.
There are a debootstrap scripts for that at
  http://buildd.debian.org/buildd.chroot (for woody)
  http://buildd.debian.org/buildd.chroot.sarge (for sarge and sid)

It's probably time to make sbuild strictly a user tool and forget
about compatibility with buildd as it's too much of a headache.
Only a couple of us were using it with buildd anyhow.

Rick

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux def 2.4.20 #1 SMP Tue Jan 28 22:05:38 PST 2003 i686
Locale: LANG=en_US, LC_CTYPE=en_US

- End forwarded message -

Re: /run/, resolvconf and read-only root

[Arthur de Jong]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


> I don't know what it will take to convince you, but I would like you to
> answer these questions:

I also have a problem with adding another toplevel directory and I suspect
there are some more. I haven't read the complete thread (I also have other
things to do) but I've picked up bits and pieces.

> Do you think having programs write to /etc is a bad thing?

I think creating /run is worse.

I think it should be possible for any program that writes to /etc (it it
cannot use /var) either to be configurable to store it's data somewhere
else or use a symlink to store the data somwhere else (e.g. /proc/flashrom
or /nfsmounteddiskbutnotroot or other unusual place). I think that should
be the first step in tris transition.

> Where would you put /etc/mtab, to keep /etc sacrosanct?

I think that state about the mounted filesystems should be kept by the
kernel (that meens /proc). If there is some state that is not kept by the
kernel but by userspace it should probably stored in /var somewhere (if
/var is not available on boot writing the file could be delayed until it
is mounted). Having mtab in /etc may be useful for historical reasons to a
couple of people though and you might consider a symlink to some file in
/var.

I haven't seen a very good description of /run yet and I'm not completely
sure that something like "a place to write files to when you can't write
to /var yet" is useful. This is not a useful description because /var may
be mounted at different times on different systems (e.g. nfs mounted /var
vs localy mounted /var).

I think finding a soltion for the ro root, nfs /var combination is a good
thing but I doubt it should be this invasive.

- -- arthur - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://tiefighter.et.tudelft.nl/~arthur --
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pXPlDwCZhivmJJuR8EjvDjo=
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Re: aag - wrapper for apt-get with support for recommend and suggests field

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Tue, Apr 29, 2003 at 04:08:14AM -0700, David Nusinow wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2003 at 06:13:38AM +0200, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > i have written a small wrapper for apt-get that makes it possible to
> > install all recommended and/or suggested Packages for a Package too. 

> Why not just use aptitude?[1]

I heard there's this other tool called dselect too.

It seems to have similar command line arguments.

Hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Announcing Debian Package Tags

[Martijn van Oosterhout]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 02:27:35PM +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:38:30 +, Emile van Bergen wrote:
> > people tend to have a lot larger memory for words than for images and
> > unpronounceable hieroglyphs (icons, and -- shudder -- tool bars).
> 
> Not to nitpick, but people, and indeed entire cultures, for which this
> isn't true -- because written words and symbols are essentially the same
> thing to them -- _do_ exist. (And did, historically. Ancient Egypt comes
> to mind. If you believe kooks^wpeople like Mr. EvDaeniken, they even had
> [alien visitors with] computers. ;-)

Umm, but that would make them "pronoucable hieroglyphs", ie, they have an
common wellknown meaning. For me, most of the icons used in modern
windowings are mystifying. I only recently worked out the oddly shaped white
thing on the KDE toolbar was supposed to represent a sea shell, presumably
as a kind of joke.

Maybe that's intuitive to some people but to me it just looks wierd. On the
other hand if it simply had the letters "bash" or just "sh" it's meaning
would have been immediatly apparent.

Admittedly, some are better than others. In Word, the alignment buttons,
bold, underline, etc. Cut/copy/paste you just learn to recognise. I'd have
to agree, GUIs usually involve just as much learning as a command line, it's
just a different type.

-- 
Martijn van Oosterhout  http://svana.org/kleptog/
> "the West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or
> religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence.
> Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."
>   - Samuel P. Huntington


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OpenOffice in other menu?

[Carl B. Constantine]

Why is OpenOffice in the "Other" menu in Gnome (2.2) instead of in the
"Office" menu where it should be?

-- 
 .''`.  Carl B. Constantine
: :' : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`. `'GnuPG: 135F FC30 7A02 B0EB 61DB  34E3 3AF1 DC6C 9F7A 3FF8
  `-  Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom


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Re: i386 compatibility & libstdc++

[Tollef Fog Heen]

* Anthony DeRobertis 

| On Sat, 2003-04-26 at 03:56, Chris Cheney wrote:
| 
| > I also find it hard to believe that the majority of our users do not
| > have or can not purchase a system that is less than 7 years old.
| 
| I have a brand new 486-class system with 32MB of RAM. It's less than 6
| months old.
| 
| Please explain how I can get a similar system, running on a similar
| amount of power, and with no moving parts (i.e., no fans) using, even a
| P-II.

http://www.pipegroup.com/nano/docs/p266.html (at prototype stage, but
«soon available»)

Or you could use a celeron 500 or something which you could just cool
using a rib (or an athlon 550 or similar).

-- 
Tollef Fog Heen,''`.
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are  : :' :
  `. `' 
`-  

Re: Backporting a package from unstable to stable

[Steve Greenland]

On 29-Apr-03, 19:11 (CDT), James D Strandboge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> If you are going to backport packages from sid, you will most likely
> need to backport debhelper, debconf, automake*, et al so that the
> package will build properly (though it may *compile* correctly).

Instead of backporting these core tools again, there's Adrian Bunk's
woody backport site; see http://www.fs.tum.de/~bunk/packages/ for info.

And thanks, Adrian!

Steve

-- 
Steve Greenland
The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating
system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the
world.   -- seen on the net

Re: Announcing Debian Package Tags

[Mike Dresser]

On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Martijn van Oosterhout wrote:

> Maybe that's intuitive to some people but to me it just looks wierd. On the
> other hand if it simply had the letters "bash" or just "sh" it's meaning
> would have been immediatly apparent.

Indeed.  There's a Windows tool I use at times, called EasyCleaner
(http://www.toniarts.com)

The stable version is 1.7f, and there's a new Beta 2.0 that he's working
on.

Anyways, here's how 1.7f looks:

http://www.toniarts.com/images/ECss1.jpg

In Beta 2.0, all the menus have been replaced with icons(no screen shots
available).

I've used this program for many years, and I still have to hover over the
icon, or just click it, to find out what each new icon does.  Works about
as good as random clicking in MineSweeper does!

Granted, this makes the program more international friendly, but it's a
step back for everyone that has to use the program.

Mike

ITP: gnome-velocity -- A light file manager for GNOME2

[Leo \"Costela\" Antunes]

Package: wnpp
Version: unavailable; reported 2003-04-30
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: gnome-velocity
  Version : 0.1alpha
  Upstream Author : Kyle Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://velocity.sf.net
* License : GPL
  Description : A light file manager for GNOME2

Velocity is a file manager for the GNOME 2 Desktop environment. It is
designed to be fast, efficient, and very powerful. As a file manager it
offers many advanced and unique features such as: View profiles, Context
menu image previewing, Plugins, and much more.

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Re: /run/, resolvconf and read-only root

[Steve Langasek]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 03:13:43PM +0200, Arthur de Jong wrote:

> > Do you think having programs write to /etc is a bad thing?

> I think creating /run is worse.

> I think it should be possible for any program that writes to /etc (it it
> cannot use /var) either to be configurable to store it's data somewhere
> else or use a symlink to store the data somwhere else (e.g. /proc/flashrom
> or /nfsmounteddiskbutnotroot or other unusual place). I think that should
> be the first step in tris transition.

This encourages admins to continue developing home-grown schemas to
address the problem, and is at odds with the motives for standardizing
the system -- namely, that we provide something which works out of the
box, and that Debian users be able to move from one system to another
without having to learn about lots of strange local conventions.

> I haven't seen a very good description of /run yet and I'm not
> completely sure that something like "a place to write files to when
> you can't write to /var yet" is useful. This is not a useful
> description because /var may be mounted at different times on
> different systems (e.g. nfs mounted /var vs localy mounted /var).

It is precisely because /var may be mounted at different times that it
cannot be depended on for the storage of early-boot state.

-- 
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer


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Re: libstdc++... Help please

[Matthias Urlichs]

Hi,

On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 12:06:11 +, Björn Stenberg wrote:
> Matthias Urlichs wrote:
>> The current tools don't allow programs of arch X into testing if they
>> fail to build on arch Y. I think that in general this is a good idea.
> 
> I disagree. The net effect is that the program gets less testing,
> resulting in less bugs found and fixed.

On the other hand, by failing to build on arch Y you already _have_ found
a severe bug. If you propagate the "working" build of arch X, there is not
much motivation for the maintainer, who is likely to have arch X also, to
add a possibly-difficult patch.

On the gripping hand, that bug often isn't the fault of the package in
question, but of gcc/binutils/whatever.  :-/

-- 
Matthias

Re: i386 compatibility & libstdc++

[Arnd Bergmann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wednesday 30 April 2003 16:29, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> * Anthony DeRobertis
> | Please explain how I can get a similar system, running on a similar
> | amount of power, and with no moving parts (i.e., no fans) using, even a
> | P-II.
>
> http://www.pipegroup.com/nano/docs/p266.html (at prototype stage, but
> «soon available»)

The most common one available today is the VIA APIA system:
http://www.viavpsd.com/product/epia_mini_itx_spec.jsp?motherboardId=21
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&query=epia

Arnd <><
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6ODFY2g6gjTaNBcBPpwzlxs=
=9mNT
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Re: Bug#190038: libgtkdatabox_1:0.2.3.0-1(m68k/unstable/thing2): FTBFS on m68k

[Martin Schulze]

Junichi Uekawa wrote:
> 
> 
> > > /usr/lib/gcc-lib/m68k-linux/3.2.3/../../../libgdk-x11-2.0.so: undefined 
> > > reference to `Xine
> > > ramaIsActive'
> > > /usr/lib/gcc-lib/m68k-linux/3.2.3/../../../libgdk-x11-2.0.so: undefined 
> > > reference to `Xine
> > > ramaQueryScreens'
> > > collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> > > configure:7589: $? = 1
> > > configure: program exited with status 1
> > > configure: failed program was:
> > > #line 7510 "configure"
> > > 
> > I have really no idea what to do and I hope somebody could help me out here.
> 
> It's strange, because on my i386 system
> objdump -T /usr/lib/libgdk-X11-2.0.so gives
> 
> 0002e71c gDF .text  0049  Base_gdk_display_x11_get_type
> 00045ebc gDF .text  014c  Base_gdk_windowing_window_init
> 0005017c gDF .text  0106  BaseXineramaIsActive
> 00010a20 gDF .init    Base_init
> 0002b8b0 gDF .text  0041  Basegdk_image_type_get_type
> 00050284 gDF .text  01ba  BaseXineramaQueryScreens
>   DF *UND*  00c3  g_get_charset
> 00026e3c gDF .text  0097  Base_gdk_screen_close
> 
> and that probably means the symbol should be defined within that library.

On crest (m68k) this results in:

  D  *UND*    XineramaIsActive
00016970 gDF .init    Base_init
0002ffd4 gDF .text  004c  Basegdk_image_type_get_type
  D  *UND*    XineramaQueryScreens
  DF *UND*  00c6  g_get_charset
0002b8fa gDF .text  009a  Base_gdk_screen_close
  DF *UND*  0148  XkbSetDetectableAutoRepeat

Any idea why it seems to be undefined (*UND*) on m68k?

Regards,

Joey

-- 
A mathematician is a machine for converting coffee into theorems.

Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.

RE: ITP: gnome-velocity -- A light file manager for GNOME2

[Leo \"Costela\" Antunes]

severity #191420 wishlist
thanks

I don't know why it was filled as Normal... it didn't recognize
"wishlist" as a valid value for the Severity pseudo-header...
Any hints?

Cheers

PS.: CC me, I'm not on d-devel

-- 

 Leo Costela
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 Key Fingerprint: 8AE6CDFF6535192FB5B659212262D36F7ADF9466
 "you must cut down the mightiest tree in the forest... with... a herring!"


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Bug#191434: ITP: libcgi-session-perl -- Persistent session data in CGI applications

[Julien Danjou]

Package: wnpp
Version: unavailable; reported 2003-04-30
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: libcgi-session-perl
  Version : 3.93
  Upstream Author : Sherzod Ruzmetov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
* URL : http://www.cpan.org
* License : as Perl itself 
  Description : Persistent session data in CGI applications

 CGI-Session is a Perl5 library that provides an easy, reliable and modular
 session management system across HTTP requests. Persistency is a key feature
 for such applications as shopping carts, login/authentication routines, and
 application that need to carry data accross HTTP requests.
 CGI::Session does that and many more

-- System Information:
Debian Release: testing/unstable
Architecture: i386
Kernel: Linux chulak 2.4.20 #1 mar avr 8 02:18:40 CEST 2003 i686
Locale: LANG=fr_FR, LC_CTYPE=fr_FR

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Re: fixed libstdc++5 package

[Matthias Klose]

James Troup writes:
> Matthias Klose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > Btw, looking at the reports, I see 30 submitted from i386 architectures,
> > one from a powerpc machine, none from other architectures, although all
> > architectures are affected. Conclusions? ;-)
> 
> Well, duh, let's see.  Several architectures' build were either broken
> by your libstdc++ i386 vs. i486 changes (arm), unrelated issues
> (libc-sparc64 for sparc) or simply decided that maybe it was a good
> idea to not upload such hideously broken packages even if they got a
> ''successful'' build log?
> 
> I mean, sheesh, poking fun at underused architectures is all well and
> good (apparently), but you could at least pick a reasonable example...

It was not my intention to point the conclusions in this direction :)

Matthias

Re: Bug#191420: ITP: gnome-velocity -- A light file manager for GNOME2

[Colin Watson]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 05:13:13PM -0300, Leo Costela Antunes wrote:
> severity #191420 wishlist
> thanks
> 
> I don't know why it was filled as Normal... it didn't recognize
> "wishlist" as a valid value for the Severity pseudo-header...
> Any hints?

A temporary BTS glitch. Please ignore it, it's been fixed now.

Cheers,

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: debian.org machine with pbuilder/debootstrap?

[Martin Schulze]

Neil Roeth wrote:
> On Apr 28, Martin Schulze ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>  > Hamish Moffatt wrote:
>  > > Many have chroots but don't tend to have the relevant build-deps
>  > > installed.
>  > You can always send a mail into the direction of
>  > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and ask for the packages which are missing.
>  > You don't have to, but it's a common way to get things installed.
>^
> What's the alternative?

Ask the wall in front of you.

That was hidden sarcasm...

Regards,

Joey

-- 
A mathematician is a machine for converting coffee into theorems.

Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.

Re: Dropping/splitting (proper) i386 support

[Matthias Klose]

Hamish Moffatt writes:
> On Sun, Apr 27, 2003 at 04:32:37PM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote:
> > This is an attempt to summarize some points.
> >
> > 1. Why do we have a problem, other than performance issues?
> >
> > * To maintain binary compatibility with other distributions for C++
> > packages, Debian needs to use the i486+ version of atomicity.h supplied
> > by GCC.
> > * This version is significantly faster than the i386 version.
> > * GCC 3.2 doesn't even supply a working i386 version (GCC 3.3 does).
> > * This is exposed ABI (currently) and therefore cannot be solved by
> > multilibbing.
>  
> I notice that we already have /usr/lib/i486/libstdc++.so.5 etc. Does this
> mean we can have different versions of the library for i386, i486 etc?

No. I had to learn this as well. The new packages only have the
libstdc++ with the i486 atomicity implementation as gcc-3.2's
libstdc++ had it. The two implementations must not be mixed.

Re: Dropping/splitting (proper) i386 support

[Matthias Klose]

Neil Roeth writes:
> Nice summary.

> > * Drop i386 support mostly.  'i386' architecture becomes 'i486'.
> > Start a 'Debian-real-i386' subproject, with a 'real-i386' architecture,
> > but don't require that any packages build on it in order to go into 
> > testing or to release Debian; it would be a bonus architecture, with
> > a limited number of packages avaiable.
> > 
> > This seems to be the most immediately feasible option.  Several people 
> > have already indicated their approval of this idea.  I wouldn't wait for 
> > sarge to release, but do it ASAP. (Since C++ is already semi-broken on 
> > 386s, this would likely make things better for i386 in fact; at least 
> > it would have a specific functioning project.)
> > 
> > This is assuming someone with a real i386 is willing to lead a
> > 'Debian-real-i386' project (which wouldn't be a huge amount of work,
> > really; upstream support is usually pretty good, you don't have to actually
> > compile packages on your slow 386, just test them there, and you don't have
> > to worry about ABI compatibility with anyone much).  If nobody is willing
> > then I'd say there just isn't enough support and 386 should be dropped
> > outright.
> 
> I am in favor of dropping the 386 altogether, but this is acceptable as an
> alternative.  If people would rather work on keeping 386 software up to date
> than just run woody forever, more power to them.  It doesn't seem like it
> would cost much on anyone else's part to enable this.

What are the steps to be taken to move to i486-linux? Has this to be
decided on debian-policy?

Would it be ok to drop i386-linux until somebody starts it again?


Matthias

Re: ITP: gnome-velocity -- A light file manager for GNOME2

[Adam Heath]

On 30 Apr 2003, Leo "Costela" Antunes wrote:

> Package: wnpp
> Version: unavailable; reported 2003-04-30
> Severity: wishlist
>
> * Package name: gnome-velocity
>   Version : 0.1alpha
>   Upstream Author : Kyle Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> * URL : http://velocity.sf.net
> * License : GPL


>   Description : A light file manager for GNOME2

Hahahaha.  What a contradiction.  Light and gnome in the same sentence. k

Re: /run/, resolvconf and read-only root

[Thomas Hood]

On Wed, 2003-04-30 at 15:13, Arthur de Jong wrote:
> I think it should be possible for any program that writes to /etc (it it
> cannot use /var) either to be configurable to store it's data somewhere
> else or use a symlink to store the data somwhere else (e.g. /proc/flashrom
> or /nfsmounteddiskbutnotroot or other unusual place). I think that should
> be the first step in tris transition.

Would you find /etc/run/ more acceptable?

> I haven't seen a very good description of /run yet and I'm not completely
> sure that something like "a place to write files to when you can't write
> to /var yet" is useful. This is not a useful description because /var may
> be mounted at different times on different systems (e.g. nfs mounted /var
> vs localy mounted /var).

The description does not have to be much more specific than
that in order to guarantee that /run/ solves the problem,
which is that there are certain programs pre-required for
networking which, ipso facto, cannot use network-mounted
filesystems to store their state.

Is /run/ "useful"?  It solves the problem.

Of course, it is not the only possible solution to the problem.
If you wish, you can regard /run/ as an interim solution, to
be used until such time as programs are rewritten to make
/run/ no longer necessary.

-- 
Thomas Hood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

About standard 'c' structures in header files.

[Halil Demirezen]

Hi, 

As writing a network based program, does debian forces i should use standard 
structures in headers files? for example:

struct iphdr 


i can construct this structure my own. However, does debian want to see there 
__standard__
structures in .deb packages?


sincerely.

--halil

Re: Accepted arcboot 0.3.6 (mips source)

[Alastair McKinstry]

Hi,

I'm looking at what needs to be be done for mips support in
debian-installer, and it appears we probably need arcboot support.

Currently the installers prepare the disk image, then present a menu
option to run lilo, or grub (which get run in a chroot of the target).
Would the same work for arcboot?
( I do not have a mips box to test, but could write the package for
testing).

Regards,
Alastair McKinstry

On Tue, 2003-04-29 at 09:17, Guido Guenther wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Format: 1.7
> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 22:01:14 +0200
> Source: arcboot
> Binary: arcboot tip22
> Architecture: source mips
> Version: 0.3.6
> Distribution: unstable
> Urgency: low
> Maintainer: Guido Guenther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Changed-By: Guido Guenther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Description: 
>  arcboot- Bootloader for SGI/MIPS IP22 machines
>  tip22  - Tftp boot image builder for SGI/MIPS IP22 machines
> Changes: 
>  arcboot (0.3.6) unstable; urgency=low
>  .
>* fix command line handling, now things like
>   boot linux root=/dev/sda1 single
>  should work as expected, no need to mess with OSLoadPartition
>* fix booting arbitrary files
>   boot /vmlinux root=/dev/sda1
>  will now properly boot OSLoadPartition/vmlinux
>* search for OSLoadPartition if the envvar is bogus
>* add missing prototypes, cleanup printf length modifiers
>* move some common definitions to subarch.h
>* use gcc-2.95
>* adding other 32bit IPs to arcboot is now a two line change
>  in common/subarch.h
>* arcboot script now prints what it's doing
>* postrm: silent grep on new installs
>* echo 4 > debian/compat
>* Build-Depend: on debhelper (>=4)
>* Bump Standards Version to 3.5.9
>* add ${misc:Depends}
> Files: 
>  1e768fb6482e1baac30e6cff6423a3a8 532 admin optional arcboot_0.3.6.dsc
>  e5672a5492a233f88ef7b991c66fb7f5 186831 admin optional arcboot_0.3.6.tar.gz
>  d0a81c2e2ea4d2bb77a764cdb74da59a 31148 admin optional arcboot_0.3.6_mips.deb
>  40104eab58df0cb2debc0b291099b257 14464 admin optional tip22_0.3.6_mips.deb
> 
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iD8DBQE+qx6nn88szT8+ZCYRAmqKAJ4r7wyNeJim4XA5WpfQBHL2B247TQCfRb55
> I+zwnx68KdiWXv09A/bbT1Y=
> =7TMm
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> 
> 
> Accepted:
> arcboot_0.3.6.dsc
>   to pool/main/a/arcboot/arcboot_0.3.6.dsc
> arcboot_0.3.6.tar.gz
>   to pool/main/a/arcboot/arcboot_0.3.6.tar.gz
> arcboot_0.3.6_mips.deb
>   to pool/main/a/arcboot/arcboot_0.3.6_mips.deb
> tip22_0.3.6_mips.deb
>   to pool/main/a/arcboot/tip22_0.3.6_mips.deb
> 

Re: RFA: sbuild -- Tool for building Debian binary packages from Debian sources

[Michael Banck]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 05:44:06AM -0700, Rick Younie wrote:
> I request an adopter for the sbuild package.

Roger Leigh packages buildd (which includes sbuild) locally, so he might
be the right guy for this.

Michael

Re: Announcing Debian Package Tags

[Jacob Hallén]

Other usefulpackage tags would be source language (C, C++, Python, Perl, Ruby 
etc.) and platform (KDE, GNOME...).

Jacob Hallén

SPAM to BTS

[Brian May]

I can only presume this was SPAM?

Fortunately bug #91791 is already closed and archived.
-- 
Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: fixed libstdc++5 package

[Alex Romosan]

Matthias Klose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> A fixed libstdc++ package (0pre7) has been uploaded to incoming. You
> can get it from
>
>   http://ftp-master.debian.org/~doko/gcc-3.3/

i've asked in the bug report i filed against the broken libstdc++ and
previously on the debian-gcc mailing list but i still haven't received
an answer, so i'll ask again:

what is the rationale behind not having gcc 3.2.3 build libstdc++5 and
instead using the version from 3.3pre0? this give me on my system:

ii  libstdc++5 3.3-0pre7  The GNU Standard C++ Library v3
ii  libstdc++5-dev 3.2.3-1The GNU Standard C++ Library v3 (development

shouldn't everything be consistent (the development package and the
library)? can somebody please explain why this decision was made?
thanks.

--alex--

-- 
| I believe the moment is at hand when, by a paranoiac and active |
|  advance of the mind, it will be possible (simultaneously with  |
|  automatism and other passive states) to systematize confusion  |
|  and thus to help to discredit completely the world of reality. |

Re: debian.org machine with pbuilder/debootstrap?

[Neil Roeth]

On Apr 30, Martin Schulze ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 > Neil Roeth wrote:
 > > On Apr 28, Martin Schulze ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 > >  > Hamish Moffatt wrote:
 > >  > > Many have chroots but don't tend to have the relevant build-deps
 > >  > > installed.
 > >  > You can always send a mail into the direction of
 > >  > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and ask for the packages which are missing.
 > >  > You don't have to, but it's a common way to get things installed.
 > >^
 > > What's the alternative?
 > 
 > Ask the wall in front of you.
 > 
 > That was hidden sarcasm...
 > 
 > Regards,
 > 
 >  Joey

Thanks for taking the time to respond.  Now, maybe someone else can give me a
useful answer.  Let me rephrase the question:

AFAIK, I cannot install packages on a d.o machine to satisfy build
dependencies, because I don't have root permission.  pbuilder with appropriate
sudo permissions for all DDs would suffice, but it is usually not installed.
So, is there any alternative for installing packages to satisfy build-deps
other than sending email to debian-admin?

If I'm being dense and the answer is obvious, I'm comfortable being told I'm
dense, as long I'm also told the obvious answer.  If the answer is "no", I'd
also like to hear someone just say so.

Thanks.

-- 
Neil Roeth

Re: About standard 'c' structures in header files.

[Martijn van Oosterhout]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 11:53:14PM +0300, Halil Demirezen wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> As writing a network based program, does debian forces i should use standard 
> structures in headers files? for example:
> 
> struct iphdr 
> 
> 
> i can construct this structure my own. However, does debian want to see there 
> __standard__
> structures in .deb packages?

I don't think debian cares one way or the other how you write your code. On
the other hand, if you use the headers in netinet/, you're less likely to
make mistakes that would cause problems on different architectures.

-- 
Martijn van Oosterhout  http://svana.org/kleptog/
> "the West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or
> religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence.
> Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."
>   - Samuel P. Huntington


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Re: debian.org machine with pbuilder/debootstrap?

[Daniel Jacobowitz]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2003 at 10:16:11PM -0400, Neil Roeth wrote:
> On Apr 30, Martin Schulze ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>  > Neil Roeth wrote:
>  > > On Apr 28, Martin Schulze ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>  > >  > Hamish Moffatt wrote:
>  > >  > > Many have chroots but don't tend to have the relevant build-deps
>  > >  > > installed.
>  > >  > You can always send a mail into the direction of
>  > >  > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and ask for the packages which are missing.
>  > >  > You don't have to, but it's a common way to get things installed.
>  > >^
>  > > What's the alternative?
>  > 
>  > Ask the wall in front of you.
>  > 
>  > That was hidden sarcasm...
>  > 
>  > Regards,
>  > 
>  >Joey
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to respond.  Now, maybe someone else can give me a
> useful answer.  Let me rephrase the question:
> 
> AFAIK, I cannot install packages on a d.o machine to satisfy build
> dependencies, because I don't have root permission.  pbuilder with appropriate
> sudo permissions for all DDs would suffice, but it is usually not installed.
> So, is there any alternative for installing packages to satisfy build-deps
> other than sending email to debian-admin?
> 
> If I'm being dense and the answer is obvious, I'm comfortable being told I'm
> dense, as long I'm also told the obvious answer.  If the answer is "no", I'd
> also like to hear someone just say so.

No.  Just mail debian-admin.

-- 
Daniel Jacobowitz
MontaVista Software Debian GNU/Linux Developer

Breaking into a Linux box running initrd

[Andrew Pollock]

Hi,

The way I've always broken into a Linux box when it's been seriously 
broken or the root password's been forgotten is to go "linux init=/bin/sh" 
at the LILO prompt.

However, this doesn't appear to have the desired effect when you've got a 
system that boots with an initrd.

Can anyone enlighten me as to how you do it when there's an initrd in use?

Andrew