Re: why not mingetty??

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Fri, Apr 24, 1998 at 05:39:51PM -0400, Shaleh wrote:
> Why is our default not mingetty.  Several other dists use this.  For
> almost all Linux boxen this is the right choice.  It is easier on mem
> and cpu than agetty.  Anyone who needs the other gettys also knows how
> to change their getty.  I have been running mingetty for a year now and
> have had no problems.  Would someone care to state a good reason why we
> should not use mingetty.  Or why we must use agetty.

This seems reasonable. I am running it on all my boxes here without problem.

I did the 0.9.4-3.1 NMU libc6 compile, but I didn't check at the time
if it were still the latest version -- it may not be. 

Also, lintian has two errors with it (manpage not compressed, old-fsf-address)
but there are no bugs filed. It doesn't include the debian changelog
in /usr/doc/mingetty, either (lintian doesn't seem to notice?). I may do
another upload to fix these.

Hamish
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Re: ncftp status? (was re: Intent to package moxa radius)

[Bob Nielsen]

On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Jules Bean wrote:

> Hmm..
> 
> I don't see any version of ncftp 2 in frozen?
> 
> Someone said it was GPL (and hence free) now?  And someone else said it had
> gone into hamm/main, but I don't seem to have it in my packages file...

ncftp_2.4.3-1.deb is in main/net.  There was a copy of 3.0 beta in
non-free, but it doesn't appear to be there any more.  Personally, I
didn't like it because a lot of the nice stuff in the previous version
wasn't included. 

Bob


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Re: Lists archives outside debian.org

[Herbert Xu]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:48:38 +0200 Martin Schulze wrote:
>> Do others have an oppinion on it, too, or is it just Ray and Marco?
> I'm against (too much opportunities for spammers)

FWIW I'm in favour of archiving outside Debian.  You can't fight spam by
hiding your email address.

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Re: 21164 must be fixed before 2.0.34 comes out!

[Herbert Xu]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote:
> bug 21164 does not seem to be a bug in the libc.
> it is instead a kernel bug.

FWIW, I just tried it on my Debian 2.0 2.0.32 machine:

$ ./yyys
Killed

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Re: why not mingetty??

[Raul Miller]

> On Fri, Apr 24, 1998 at 05:39:51PM -0400, Shaleh wrote:
> > Why is our default not mingetty.  Several other dists use this.  For
> > almost all Linux boxen this is the right choice.  It is easier on mem
> > and cpu than agetty.

Can this be quantified, please?

Changing the default will disrupt the integrity of everyone who is
relying on it. [Not me, personally, I'm using mgetty where it matters.]

Aside: I'm surprised that /sbin/getty isn't managed using
update-alternatives.  I presume that this means that the different
getties aren't very interoperable?

I realize that at present, just installing mingetty doesn't free up
the space taken up by agetty in the util-linux package. Perhaps agetty
should be factored out into its own package? [Of course, this is a slink
issue, rather than a hamm issue.]

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new fakeroot problems?

[Jean Pierre LeJacq]

I just upgraded to 0.0-11 of fakeroot and cannot get it to work.  All
programs started with fakeroot with a segmentation fault.

Anyone else experiencing this problem?

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Re: elvis package

[Raul Miller]

Charles Briscoe-Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> I'm pretty sure that a program must be either entirely GPLed,
> >> or contain no GPLed parts.  

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Raul Miller writes:
> >More precisely, the non-gpled parts must not have terms which prevent
> >compliance with the gpled parts.

Charles Briscoe-Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Before they are incorporated into the GPLed program, yes, but not
> afterwards. Please read the "viral clause" of the GPL, clause 2(b):
>
> You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in
> whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any
> part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third
> parties under the terms of this License.

This just means that if you can't distribute the program under the terms
of the GPL you can't distribute it.

Please notice the phrase "licensed as a whole".  It's not saying that
you have to change licenses on included fragments.  It's saying that
the fragments have to be compatible.

This clause makes it clear that you can't (for example) distribute
some of troll-tech stuff as a part of a gpl'd program.

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Licensing, was elvis package

[David Welton]

On Fri, Apr 24, 1998 at 11:09:25PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:

> > You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in
> > whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any
> > part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third
> > parties under the terms of this License.
> 
> This just means that if you can't distribute the program under the terms
> of the GPL you can't distribute it.
> 
> Please notice the phrase "licensed as a whole".  It's not saying that
> you have to change licenses on included fragments.  It's saying that
> the fragments have to be compatible.
> 
> This clause makes it clear that you can't (for example) distribute
> some of troll-tech stuff as a part of a gpl'd program.

So why haven't we seen this enforced, or has it happend but quietly?
I do note that there is no kemacs.., but there are things like
krpm.. hrm.. I'd have to look at the list, but... one would think that
at least RMS would enforce things under the FSF's protection.  So are
we missing something?

Ciao,
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Re: Licensing, was elvis package

[David Welton]

On Fri, Apr 24, 1998 at 08:16:58PM -0700, David Welton wrote:
> 
> So why haven't we seen this enforced, or has it happend but quietly?
> I do note that there is no kemacs.., but there are things like
> krpm.. hrm.. I'd have to look at the list, but... one would think that
> at least RMS would enforce things under the FSF's protection.  So are
> we missing something?

I was, for those of you who are not mind readers, of course referring
to the Qt stuff.  My mind was half out the door...:->

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Re: Licensing, was elvis package

[Raul Miller]

David Welton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So why haven't we seen this enforced, or has it happend but quietly?
> I do note that there is no kemacs.., but there are things like
> krpm.. hrm.. I'd have to look at the list, but... one would think that
> at least RMS would enforce things under the FSF's protection.  So are
> we missing something?

If you'd manage to read the copyright on rpm, you'd see:

(1) It's written by redhat, not fsf,
(2) It's available both under GPL and LGPL.

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Re: Licensing, was elvis package

[Raul Miller]

David Welton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was, for those of you who are not mind readers, of course referring
> to the Qt stuff.  My mind was half out the door...:->

Oh.. er... I still don't understand what you were trying to say.

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cfdisk and multiple active partitions

[Nicolás Lichtmaier]

 Is it legal to have multiple partitions marked as active (at work a machine
wouldn't boot untill I removed one of those marks)?
 If it isn't, a bug should be filed against cfdisk.


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Re: Licensing, was elvis package

[David Welton]

On Fri, Apr 24, 1998 at 11:49:10PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
> David Welton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > So why haven't we seen this enforced, or has it happend but quietly?
> > I do note that there is no kemacs.., but there are things like
> > krpm.. hrm.. I'd have to look at the list, but... one would think that
> > at least RMS would enforce things under the FSF's protection.  So are
> > we missing something?
> 
> If you'd manage to read the copyright on rpm, you'd see:
> 
> (1) It's written by redhat, not fsf,

I know, it was just an example.

> (2) It's available both under GPL and LGPL.

Bad example, apparently.  There are plenty of others, I would assume.
Just popped into my head on the way out the door..

I guess I have learned my lesson about doing that:-(

My main point was this:  if the GPL has this clause about the
components of a program being free, what with the large quantity of
programs being Qtized, why haven't we seen any action?

Ciao,
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Re: wu-ftpd important bug(s)

[John Goerzen]

Heiko Schlittermann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> : 2.0 with or without wu-ftpd? (Those bugs are listed in Brian White's
> : "list of bugs that *must* be fixed before releasing Hamm")
> 
> Yes, wu-ftpd is depreciated, since all it's functionality is in
> wu-ftpd-academ.  The only problem is: how can I handle this?

I already filed a bug against ftp.debian.org about this.

John


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Re: Licensing, was elvis package

[Raul Miller]

David Welton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My main point was this:  if the GPL has this clause about the
> components of a program being free, what with the large quantity of
> programs being Qtized, why haven't we seen any action?

I don't know.  Where are these large quantity of programs?

Most likely, either:

(a) they comply with the license terms for those programs, or
(b) they don't, but the license holders haven't noticed, yet.

Without specific cases it's hard to say.  Every example I've
seen so far fits in (a).

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Re: why not mingetty??

[Shaleh]

The inittab setup is not different.  However, the only way to switch
gettys is to change thme by hand.  This is because of agetty's priority,
I could not remove agetty.  As far as quantifiable numbers -- I have no
idea.  However from a simple look, mingetty has NO serial dial in
support or what not.  It is strictly console.  Obviously this is less
intensive than agetty.  I know RH ships w/ mingetty, and I think a few
other dists do as well.  Slack last I checked still used agetty.  agetty
is only needed if you have serial terminals or slow dialins.  Anything
more needs mgetty.  Not too many of us use serial terms and those who do
can figure out how to change a getty.  Hell I did (-;  I also like that
mingetty clears the screen when you log out.  It is very professional
looking.  Reminds me of the suns at school.


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why has ps changed it option syntax,or "where oh where has my - gone"

[Shaleh]

Why is ps -ax considered "deprecated".  Using a hyphen in a command is
accepted and standard practice.  Last I checked it is also POSIX as well
as w/o.  tar -zxvf and tar zxvf are the same and should be ok.  Why is
ps different?


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Re: why has ps changed it option syntax,or "where oh where has my - gone"

[Ben Gertzfield]

> "Shaleh" == Shaleh  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Shaleh> Why is ps -ax considered "deprecated".  Using a hyphen in
Shaleh> a command is accepted and standard practice.  Last I
Shaleh> checked it is also POSIX as well as w/o.  tar -zxvf and
Shaleh> tar zxvf are the same and should be ok.  Why is ps
Shaleh> different?

Read the man page for ps. It explains this in detail.

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Re: 21164 must be fixed before 2.0.34 comes out!

[erikyyy]

On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Herbert Xu wrote:

> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote:
> > bug 21164 does not seem to be a bug in the libc.
> > it is instead a kernel bug.
> 
> FWIW, I just tried it on my Debian 2.0 2.0.32 machine:
what means FWIW ?

> $ ./yyys
> Killed
this shows, that you have the bug installed on your system :-)


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Re: Upgrading Debian 1.3.1r6 to frozen

[Mark W. Eichin]

Yes, emacs19 is in Incoming for frozen and unstable, in fact, the
second version is there because people actually snarfed the first one
(which was unstable-only) and filed bug reports (yay.)


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fakeroot and dpkg

[Branden Robinson]

Can someone explain the following message to me?

dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: unable to find dependency information for shared
library /usr/lib/libfakeroot/libfakeroot (soname 0, path
/usr/lib/libfakeroot/libfakeroot.so.0, dependency field Depends)

This is with fakeroot 0.0-10 and dpkg 1.4.0.22.

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pgp4EKFhZtpYR.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Intent to package: mlddc

[vanco]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-


Monolith Internet Services offers a public dynamic dns service -- I think
it would be nice to offer a working, tried framework for
auto-initialization of such a  doodad.
Anyway, this will be my first package. I will have it ready in two
days, but that says nothing of whether I will have been accepted yet...
(My new maintainer app has been building up dust for about 7 days now...
Been trying to conjure joey or igor to quickly give me accounts!)

Monolith has links to MLDDC and other user frontends. As MLDDC is written
in C, while others are scripted, I chose MLDDC for speed.

There is only one problem that I have not found an answer to -- MLDDC
must revoke its DNS entries (via the NIC) BEFORE pppd dies. This cannot be
accomplished by placing a script in /etc/ip-up.d -- this requires
moditying /usr/bin/poff to revoke the records before pppd is killed.
If I am not to be allowed to do that, I call for the addition of a
"run-parts /etc/ppp/before-ppp-start.d" into /usr/bin/pon and "run-parts
/etc/ppp/before-ppp-shutdown.d" before the respective operations that are
performed in the scripts. That is, if run-parts runs its scripts in the
foreground. Otherwise it would be pointless as the scripts would be
running AS pppd dies --- pppd must die after run-parts has successfully
completed all of its tasks.
I will check on this, and for now write the config script to
modify poff.

- ---
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Re: why not mingetty??

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 01:40:32AM -0400, Shaleh wrote:
> The inittab setup is not different.  However, the only way to switch

That's not true, it is -- getty requires a speed, even for a virtual
terminate, while mingetty doesn't support that.

As to the numbers, I just started up a getty on my box here:

yodeller# ps aux | grep getty
root   384  0.0  0.0   720 0   2 SW  Feb  9   0:00 (mingetty)
root   401  0.0  0.0   720 0   1 SW  Feb  9   0:00 (mingetty)
root 10361  0.5  1.4   868   460   3 S17:07   0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty


# /etc/inittab: init(8) configuration.
# $Id: inittab,v 1.4 1996/03/10 11:47:55 miquels Exp $
[...]

1:2345:respawn:/sbin/mingetty tty1
2:23:respawn:/sbin/mingetty tty2
3:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty3


Hamish
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Re: cfdisk and multiple active partitions

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 01:42:38AM -0300, Nicolás Lichtmaier wrote:
>  Is it legal to have multiple partitions marked as active (at work a machine
> wouldn't boot untill I removed one of those marks)?
>  If it isn't, a bug should be filed against cfdisk.

Every machine I've seen won't boot with two partitions active. It is
pretty meaningless.


Hamish
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another question

[Branden Robinson]

I also got this warning, which makes me nervous.  Anyone care to explain to
me what is happening?

dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: unknown output from ldd on
`debian/tmp-xlib6/usr/lib/libc5-compat/libX11.so.6.1': `
./debian/tmp-xlib6/usr/lib/libc5-compat/libX11.so.6.1 =>
./debian/tmp-xlib6/usr/lib/libc5-compat/libX11.so.6.1 (0x4000b000)'

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pgpx80smTohU8.pgp
Description: PGP signature

consistency check

[erikyyy]

hm. after updating some packages i found out that old directories still
exist. (the older packages didn't clean themselves the right way)

should there be a possibility to do something like
dpkg --overall-consistency-check
to check the whole system ?
e.g. every package that has a checkscript gets this checkscript executed.

this way some kernel packages could check, that the user doesn't install
the wrong include files by hand, because he thinks, debian 
is wrong, and he is right instead (asm,scsi,linux, you know the
problem...)

emacs packages could warn you that you still didn't erase the old
directories.

of course all files that are in the package could be checked. (e.g. did
the user remove /bin/sh ?)

etc.

i am always not sure, wether my system is OK. :) sometimes it might be
useful to do a new installation (no update) only because then much of the
old unneeded rubbish is gone.



byebye
Erik


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Re: fakeroot and dpkg

[Joey Hess]

Package: fakeroot
Version: 0.0-10

Branden Robinson wrote:
> Can someone explain the following message to me?
> 
> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: unable to find dependency information for shared
> library /usr/lib/libfakeroot/libfakeroot (soname 0, path
> /usr/lib/libfakeroot/libfakeroot.so.0, dependency field Depends)

This is a minor bug in fakeroot. libfakeroot.so has moved under
/usr/lib/fakeroot, but fakeroot's shlibs file has nbot been updated with the
new location. 

Branden, you can ignore this error, it will not cause any problems aside
from the error message.

-- 
see shy jo


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Re: consistency check

[Anthony Towns]

On Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 09:26:24AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> hm. after updating some packages i found out that old directories still
> exist. (the older packages didn't clean themselves the right way)
> should there be a possibility to do something like
> dpkg --overall-consistency-check
> to check the whole system ?

If you're running a hamm (Debian 2.0, frozen) you might like to look at 
cruft (cruft_0.9.4_i386.deb, still sitting in Incoming; try 
ftp1.us.debian.org:/pub/debian/Incoming 
or your favourite Incoming mirror) which does something like this.

In particular, it checks that all the files listed as alternatives, as
diversions and in the dpkg database itself are all present and accounted
for, and produces a list of things that weren't listed but are still on
your system, and things that were listed, but aren't. It also takes into
account symlinks (if you've got a symlink from /usr/tmp to /var/tmp, it'll
complain if /var/tmp doesn't exist, for example), user home directories
(it'll make sure that everything in /home/aj is owned by aj, for example),
and a couple of other things.

It's still a work in progress -- in particular there are bunches of files
that are created when packages are installed but dpkg is never told about
(/etc/passwd is one example), which cruft doesn't cope with too well at the
moment -- but it's a start, at least.

> e.g. every package that has a checkscript gets this checkscript executed.
> this way some kernel packages could check, that the user doesn't install
> the wrong include files by hand, because he thinks, debian 
> is wrong, and he is right instead (asm,scsi,linux, you know the
> problem...)

This is an interesting idea; one that cruft doesn't even attempt to 
address.

In this particular case there are a few things. First, if the user *does*
do this, dpkg will warn them anyway (and I'd presume this would show up
under dpkg --audit). The only advantage in doing it this way is that the 
libc6-checkscript could provide some explanation as to why this is a 
problem, which dpkg probably couldn't.

I'm not entirely sure this is an appropriate sort of thing to nag the
user about; we've already got the FSSTND which tells people not to touch
stuff that we put there, and I'm of the opinion that if the sysadmin
chooses to violate this then that's their choice, and I'm somewhat 
disinclined to nag them about it.

I could certainly include something like this in cruft (after doing all
it does currently, it could happily just call all the scripts in 
/usr/lib/cruft/checkscript/ or somewhere similar) and present any results,
but I'm not entirely convinced that this would be a particularly useful
thing to do. Are there other examples of things where a script would be
useful to check that an install hasn't gone weird?

> emacs packages could warn you that you still didn't erase the old
> directories.
> of course all files that are in the package could be checked. (e.g. did
> the user remove /bin/sh ?)

cruft *does* handle this at least.

> i am always not sure, wether my system is OK. :) sometimes it might be
> useful to do a new installation (no update) only because then much of the
> old unneeded rubbish is gone.

*shudder* 

Reboots are for new kernels.

Reinstalls are for new computers.

Cheers,
aj

-- 
Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I don't speak for anyone save myself. PGP encrypted mail preferred.

  ``It's not a vision, or a fear. It's just a thought.''


pgpIgdAzhtTQ7.pgp
Description: PGP signature

gpm and time after hamm upgrade

[Corey Miller]

After upgrading to hamm, I have experienced the two following
problems. First, gpm no longer seems to work with my mouse. I have a PS/2
M$ Intellimouse, which used to work fine as type ps2. I tried that setup,
under which it only moves the cursor erratically and seems to randomly
select text. I tried setting the mouse to type ms3, but that produced
nothing at all. I have tried setting the mouse as /dev/psaux and
/dev/mouse, and have tried closing x windows completely before starting
gpm, but nothing seems to help. I am using gpm 1.13-4. The other problem
is that, whenever I reboot the machine, it sets the clock back about four
hours, but it keeps the timezone as EDT. My timezone is set as
America/Detroit.I am using timezones 2.0.7pre3-1.

Thanks,
Corey Miller

--- 
Corey Miller  "This looks like a job for . legal tender!"
MSTie #71940   -The Tick
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.egr.msu.edu/~mille542/




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Re: wu-ftpd important bug(s)

[Darren/Torin/Who Ever...]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

>Yes, wu-ftpd is depreciated, since all it's functionality is in
>wu-ftpd-academ.  The only problem is: how can I handle this?

Btw, folks, the term is deprecated.  Note that there isn't an 'i'.  It
means (loosely) "It's still around but don't use it.  It's going away in
the future."  Depreciated is a financial term...

I've just seen this in too many messages over too long of a time to
allow it to go on without comment.

Darren
- -- 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>
Darren Stalder/2608 Second Ave, @282/Seattle, WA 98121-1212/USA/+1-800-921-4996
@ Sysadmin, webweaver, postmaster for hire.  C/Perl/CGI programmer and tutor. @
@Make a little hot-tub in your soul.  @

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: noconv
Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface

iQCVAwUBNUGqjo4wrq++1Ls5AQEXZwQAl0sj2ks4gwI6n5OePtxUsuYQ3ApPgTky
2ZPFPqthctfC9+gWGlfHSiESPt9g8uIFrfBTXm3PiAY1nYFduuT8iur5sWZe/oF8
ngj5FD85qF2OJ1qPZvZ9LezRK2N09LbyVSegbxySAhv1mOc/Yn1++bcU5vl7Gi2q
4tAuq2kevQo=
=jJ1Y
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: Intent to package: mlddc

[Anthony Fok]

On Fri, Apr 24, 1998 at 04:03:58PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> Monolith Internet Services offers a public dynamic dns service -- I think
> it would be nice to offer a working, tried framework for
> auto-initialization of such a  doodad.

Sorry to disappoint you, but...

$ dpkg -s mlddc
Package: mlddc
Status: install ok installed
Priority: extra
Section: net
Installed-Size: 27
Maintainer: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Version: 3.2.2-4
Depends: libc6
Description: A client for the Monolith dynamic DNS.
 mlddc is a client for the Monolith ( http://www.ml.org )
 dynamic DNS ( DYNDNS, http://www.ml.org/dyndns/ ) service.
 It updates the ML database and nameservers with the current IP.


It is already packaged by John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> in March.  :-)

>   There is only one problem that I have not found an answer to -- MLDDC
> must revoke its DNS entries (via the NIC) BEFORE pppd dies. This cannot be
> accomplished by placing a script in /etc/ip-up.d -- this requires
> moditying /usr/bin/poff to revoke the records before pppd is killed.
>   If I am not to be allowed to do that, I call for the addition of a
> "run-parts /etc/ppp/before-ppp-start.d" into /usr/bin/pon and "run-parts
> /etc/ppp/before-ppp-shutdown.d" before the respective operations that are
> performed in the scripts. That is, if run-parts runs its scripts in the
> foreground. Otherwise it would be pointless as the scripts would be
> running AS pppd dies --- pppd must die after run-parts has successfully
> completed all of its tasks.
>   I will check on this, and for now write the config script to
> modify poff.

Nice idea.  :-)  The current mlddc package does nothing like this, i.e., the
user has to add mlddc to ip-up (and perhaps ip-down?  Nah, too late)
manually.  Maybe you could discuss with John to see if you could improve the
package?  :-)

Welcome to Debian!  :-)

Anthony

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[EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Alberta, Canada
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Keep smiling!  *^_^*
Come visit Our Lady of Victory Camp -- http://olvc.home.ml.org/
or http://www.ualberta.ca/~foka/OLVC/


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Re: Possible new name for "deity"

[Anthony Fok]

On Thu, Mar 05, 1998 at 02:57:38PM +, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote:
> 
> Mitsubishi relates to it's logo... once you have decyphered that the logo
> is actually a diamond. And once you are told Mitsubishi means diamond. Get
> the point?

Actually, AFAIK, Mitsubishi stands for "Three Diamonds".  Mitsu is "three"
in Japanese, so I guess that means "bishi" is diamond.  :-)

(In Chinese, we call it "San Ling", i.e. Three Diamonds.  I wonder if it is
written the same way in both Chinese and Japanese.  :-)

-- 
Anthony Fok Tung-LingCivil and Environmental Engineering
[EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Alberta, Canada
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Keep smiling!  *^_^*
Come visit Our Lady of Victory Camp -- http://olvc.home.ml.org/
or http://www.ualberta.ca/~foka/OLVC/


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Re: 21164 must be fixed before 2.0.34 comes out!

[jdassen]

On Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 08:25:06AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Herbert Xu wrote:
> > FWIW, I just tried it on my Debian 2.0 2.0.32 machine:
> what means FWIW ?

For what it's worth.

Note: there are several useful acronym lists / search systems on the web,
e.g. 
http://www.mtnds.com/af/default2.asp
http://www.ucc.ie/info/net/acronyms/index.html
http://www.git.net/coop/acromain.htm
http://www.git.net/coop/acrolink.htm

HTH,
Ray
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cruft : great program ! everyone should use it !

[Andreas Jellinghaus]

i realy like cruft a lot ! i strongly suggest to all developers to check
their systems, and improve the packages.

cruft is a program in debian-incoming, it looks at package files, diversion,
alternatives, etc. and reports broken symlinks, files not owned by any
package, files in users home not owned by the user, broken alternatives ...

i always tried to make my system as clean as possible, but cruft still
found a lot. it's definitv the program i wanted to see.

suggestion to the craft autor :
with MAKEDEV -I you can create device files in the local directory,
even within fakeroot. what about adding a list of the normal devices to cruft,
and report obsolete devices, strange permissions, etc. this would require
some cooperation with the makedev maintainer, but would be realy good.

andreas


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Re: 21164 must be fixed before 2.0.34 comes out!

[James Troup]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

> On Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 08:25:06AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Herbert Xu wrote:
> > > FWIW, I just tried it on my Debian 2.0 2.0.32 machine:
> > what means FWIW ?
> 
> For what it's worth.
> 
> Note: there are several useful acronym lists / search systems on the
> web [ ... ]

and the `jargon' package in doc/

-- 
James


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Re: another question

[jdassen]

On Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 02:17:18AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> I also got this warning, which makes me nervous.  Anyone care to explain to
> me what is happening?
> 
> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: unknown output from ldd on
> `debian/tmp-xlib6/usr/lib/libc5-compat/libX11.so.6.1': `
> ./debian/tmp-xlib6/usr/lib/libc5-compat/libX11.so.6.1 =>
> ./debian/tmp-xlib6/usr/lib/libc5-compat/libX11.so.6.1 (0x4000b000)'

Under some circumstances, libc5 libraries depend on themselves according to
ldd. This issue has come up before; you might want to check the mailing list
archives. As far as I know, it is harmless and can be ignored.

I'm copying this to David Engel, whom I consider to be our library guru.
David, am I right that this self-dependance can be ignored?

Ray
-- 
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yesterday but which everyone swears won't happen until tomorrow.  
- The Hipcrime Vocab by Chad C. Mulligan 


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Re: why not mingetty??

[Michael Alan Dorman]

Hamish Moffatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Also, lintian has two errors with it (manpage not compressed, old-fsf-address)
> but there are no bugs filed. It doesn't include the debian changelog
> in /usr/doc/mingetty, either (lintian doesn't seem to notice?). I may do
> another upload to fix these.

Well, actually, I was going to take back over active maintainership
here in the next week or so.  If you'd like to take over, though,
you're welcome to. :-)

Mike.


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fc in the f2c package

[Alan Bain]

The package f2c (fortran-> C) which I mantain contains a script
fc which is supposed to make f2c seem like a real compiler.  It was
part of the original f2c netlib distribution, but it is very
antique and has three bugs currently filed against it (no man
page, use of /tmp, name conflict with bash internal).  The second
of these is easily fixed (thanks to PMM) but the first and third
make me wonder if it should just be removed (and people encouraged
to use fort77 which solves the problem in a much more powerful
and elegant way).  Any comments?

Alan Bain


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Re: why not mingetty??

[Raul Miller]

Shaleh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The inittab setup is not different.  However, the only way to switch
> gettys is to change thme by hand.  This is because of agetty's priority,
> I could not remove agetty.

As I mentioned before, there is no agetty package, it's in util-linux.

[It would be good if mingetty could run with agetty config.]

> As far as quantifiable numbers -- I have no idea. However from a
> simple look, mingetty has NO serial dial in support or what not. It
> is strictly console. Obviously this is less intensive than agetty.

Why?  If no serial line is being serviced, all you have is a few
k of code that's not being run.

> I know RH ships w/ mingetty, and I think a few other dists do as well.
> Slack last I checked still used agetty. agetty is only needed if you
> have serial terminals or slow dialins. Anything more needs mgetty. Not
> too many of us use serial terms and those who do can figure out how to
> change a getty. Hell I did (-; I also like that mingetty clears the
> screen when you log out. It is very professional looking. Reminds me
> of the suns at school.

None of which addresses the concern that people who are currently using
agetty may depend on it.  [Though it might suffice to have the mingetty
preinst check for serial entries in /etc/inittab].

-- 
Raul


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Re: why not mingetty??

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 09:32:33AM -0400, Michael Alan Dorman wrote:
> Hamish Moffatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Also, lintian has two errors with it (manpage not compressed, 
> > old-fsf-address)
> > but there are no bugs filed. It doesn't include the debian changelog
> > in /usr/doc/mingetty, either (lintian doesn't seem to notice?). I may do
> > another upload to fix these.
> 
> Well, actually, I was going to take back over active maintainership
> here in the next week or so.  If you'd like to take over, though,
> you're welcome to. :-)

Well, I don't know of any particular work it needs other than to fix
the documentation problem I noticed, but if you do, please go ahead.
I fixed a bug in the NMU and rather evilly closed the bug report;
apologies for that. There is a one or two line change so that it resets
the permissions on the virtual console devices vcsX and vcsaX on startup.

I had a look around for a newer version today; sunsite has 0.9 (older),
and Red Hat 5.0 has the same version we have.

So in summary, if you don't want it, I'll take it, but I don't have
any work planned.

hamish
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CCs of replies from mailing lists are welcome.   http://hamish.home.ml.org


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Re: why not mingetty??

[Raul Miller]

Hamish Moffatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 01:40:32AM -0400, Shaleh wrote:
> > The inittab setup is not different.  However, the only way to switch
> 
> That's not true, it is -- getty requires a speed, even for a virtual
> terminate, while mingetty doesn't support that.

Does this mean that mingetty won't ignore this argument?  That
should be fixed, in my opinion.

> As to the numbers, I just started up a getty on my box here:
> 
> yodeller# ps aux | grep getty
> root   384  0.0  0.0   720 0   2 SW  Feb  9   0:00 (mingetty)
> root   401  0.0  0.0   720 0   1 SW  Feb  9   0:00 (mingetty)
> root 10361  0.5  1.4   868   460   3 S17:07   0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 
> tty

This is not a completely reasonable comparison (though it does show
0:00 time used by each getty, which is perhaps significant). 

(a) Some informal testing of my own seems to indicate that the 720 vs
868 k memory may not be significant. In spite of what ldd says, strace
shows:

open("/lib/libnss_db.so.1", O_RDONLY)   = 3
mmap(0, 4096, PROT_READ, MAP_PRIVATE, 3, 0) = 0x400b1000
mmap(0, 20364, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE, 3, 0) = 0x400b1000
mmap(0x400b5000, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED, 3, 0x3000) 
= 0x400b5000
open("/lib/libdb.so.2", O_RDONLY)   = 3
mmap(0, 4096, PROT_READ, MAP_PRIVATE, 3, 0) = 0x400b6000
mmap(0, 57240, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE, 3, 0) = 0x400b6000
mmap(0x400c3000, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED, 3, 0xc000) 
= 0x400c3000
open("/lib/libnss_files.so.1", O_RDONLY) = 3
mmap(0, 4096, PROT_READ, MAP_PRIVATE, 3, 0) = 0x400c4000
mmap(0, 31944, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE, 3, 0) = 0x400c4000
mmap(0x400cb000, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED, 3, 0x6000) 
= 0x400cb000

(b) On the other hand, in my informal testing, I couldn't get mingetty
to run -- apparently, it can't do TIOCSCTTY on my system, so it bails
out.

(c) The distinct gettys should be started at about the same time
for RSS to mean anything.  [I can't test this because I can't get
mingetty to run for longer than a fraction of a second, but I doubt
RSS is going to be a significant issue.]

(d) Technically, you also need to compare console handling to console
handling, not console handling to serial handling.

Also, note that the mingetty feature of clear the screen on logout could
be implemented in agetty (and mgetty). On the other hand, it might be
worthwhile to make it so that mingetty will properly ignore config
arguments intended for agetty or mgetty.

Finally, note that if we get too fancy it will be tough for people who
need to use multiple gettys on the same system (but maybe that's only
important for testing purposes).

-- 
Raul


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Re: wu-ftpd important bug(s)

[Bob Hilliard]

 More formal definitions:

>From Jargon File (4.0.0/24 July 1996) [jargon]:

  deprecated /adj./  Said of a program or feature that is
 considered obsolescent and in the process of being phased out,
 usually in favor of a specified replacement.  Deprecated features
 can, unfortunately, linger on for many years.  This term appears
 with distressing frequency in standards documents when the
 committees writing the documents realize that large amounts of
 extant (and presumably happily working) code depend on the
 feature(s) that have passed out of favor.  See also {dusty
 deck}.
 
>From WordNet (r) 1.6 [wn]:

  depreciate
   v 1: belittle; "The teacher should not deprecate his student's
efforts" [syn: {deprecate}]
   2: lower the value of something; "The Fed depreciated the
  dollar once again" [ant: {appreciate}]
   3: lose in value; "The dollar depreciated again" [syn:
{undervalue},
   {devaluate}, {devalue}] [ant: {appreciate}]

Bob
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Re: Intent to package: mlddc

[Dirk Eddelbuettel]

We already have a mlddc client package:

Package: mlddc
Version: 3.2.2-4
Architecture: i386
Depends: libc6
Installed-Size: 27
Maintainer: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Description: A client for the Monolith dynamic DNS.
 mlddc is a client for the Monolith ( http://www.ml.org )
 dynamic DNS ( DYNDNS, http://www.ml.org/dyndns/ ) service.
 It updates the ML database and nameservers with the current IP.

If memory servers, someone took the package from John but I can't recall who
it was.

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Re: fc in the f2c package

[Dirk Eddelbuettel]

  Alan>  The package f2c (fortran-> C) which I mantain contains a script fc
  Alan> which is supposed to make f2c seem like a real compiler.  It was part
  Alan> of the original f2c netlib distribution, but it is very antique and
  Alan> has three bugs currently filed against it (no man page, use of /tmp,
  Alan> name conflict with bash internal).  The second of these is easily
  Alan> fixed (thanks to PMM) but the first and third make me wonder if it
  Alan> should just be removed (and people encouraged to use fort77 which
  Alan> solves the problem in a much more powerful and elegant way).  Any
  Alan> comments?

I'd keep it. 'configure' scripts look for it as it is a plausible name for a
Fortran compiler. Also, it is part of the upstream package.

The 'no manual' page issue is easy if you can spare 30 minutes to write one
up. There is decent documentation in the Man-Page mini-HOWTO or the example
page in /usr/doc/man-db/manpage.example.

As for the bash internal, that's a little trickier ...

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Re: another question

[David Engel]

On Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 01:54:26PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'm copying this to David Engel, whom I consider to be our library guru.
> David, am I right that this self-dependance can be ignored?

Yes.

David
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Re: gpm and time after hamm upgrade

[Bob Hilliard]

 Corey Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>   After upgrading to hamm, I have experienced the two following
> problems. First, gpm no longer seems to work with my mouse. I have a PS/2
> M$ Intellimouse, which used to work fine as type ps2. I tried that setup,
> under which it only moves the cursor erratically and seems to randomly
> select text. I tried setting the mouse to type ms3, but that produced
> nothing at all. I have tried setting the mouse as /dev/psaux and
> /dev/mouse, and have tried closing x windows completely before starting
> gpm, but nothing seems to help. I am using gpm 1.13-4. The other problem
> is that, whenever I reboot the machine, it sets the clock back about four
> hours, but it keeps the timezone as EDT. My timezone is set as
> America/Detroit.I am using timezones 2.0.7pre3-1.

 I can't offer any help on the mouse problem.

 It sounds like your system thinks the hardware clock is set to
GMT, but it is really set to local zone time.  Check /etc/default/rcS
for the correct setting of the GMT variable:

| # Set GMT="-u" if your system clock is set to GMT, and GMT="" if not.
| GMT=""

Bob
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Re: Intent to package: mlddc

[vanco]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Anthony Fok wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 24, 1998 at 04:03:58PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> It is already packaged by John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> in March.  :-)
> 
[snip]
> 
> Nice idea.  :-)  The current mlddc package does nothing like this, i.e., the
> user has to add mlddc to ip-up (and perhaps ip-down?  Nah, too late)
> manually.  Maybe you could discuss with John to see if you could improve the
> package?  :-)
> 
> Welcome to Debian!  :-)
> 

I also found one thing -- mlddc is insecure. That's right, it's subject to
buffer overflow; it uses gets in its source. If john used the provided
binary for the .deb, this is a security hazard.
I am currently experimenting with the use of a perl module
designed for interface to the monolith NIC -- it uses libwww-perl and
therefore could be extended to use some of monolith's other services --
such as password changes and such.
Otherwise I could simply hack the mlddc source code and eliminate
the security breach, as the perl client is somewhat slower.

- ---
Aaron Van Couwenberghe -- [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|---> Debian GNU/Linux: http://www.debian.org  ftp://ftp.debian.org <-\
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Illusion web designs - http://www.sonic.net/~vanco - To be launched by June

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Re: Intent to package: mlddc

[vanco]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Dirk Eddelbuettel wrote:

> 
> If memory servers, someone took the package from John but I can't recall who
> it was.
> 
[snip]

thanks for jumping to my rescue guys, I just about had a package built ;).
Oh well. I'll have to go find something else to do... It's pretty hard,
every time I think of something it's already there ;).
Lemme go see if debian has "lightbar" on its list If not that
will be my first try... ( For those of you who don't know, it makes WWIV
style login screens possible ... )

- ---
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|---> Debian GNU/Linux: http://www.debian.org  ftp://ftp.debian.org <-\
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PGP KeyID: 41119089 UserID: Aaron Van Couwenberghe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: Intent to package: lightbar (was: Intent to package: mlddc)

[drow]

On %M 0, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
(That I was still too lazy to fix my attribution line in .muttrc)

> thanks for jumping to my rescue guys, I just about had a package built ;).
> Oh well. I'll have to go find something else to do... It's pretty hard,
> every time I think of something it's already there ;).
>   Lemme go see if debian has "lightbar" on its list If not that
> will be my first try... ( For those of you who don't know, it makes WWIV
> style login screens possible ... )


There's two issues here.  First of all, lightbar is also hideously messy
and moderately insecure code - it has a couple of buffer overflows, for
instance, not to mention it offends my sense of the esthetics of code.

Plus, it's based on a login and telnetd that are VERY old.  If you feel
like hacking it into the new login.c (from shadow-97blah), go right ahead.
In my spare time I'm working on a replacement (perhaps to be called
deblogin?) which will apply itself as a patch to a copy of login.c.

Dan


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Only m68k and i386 in hamm?

[Guy Maor]

Is that correct?  I ask because dinstall currently installs packages
into hamm and slink by installing it into the former and symlinking it
to the later.  This causes unnecessary mirror traffic for those archs
that will only be released with 2.1 because I must later move binary-*
for those to slink.

So I'd like final confirmation that no other archs are ready.  I
remember that alpha was is a maybe situation last time I asked.


Guy


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Re: weird utmp/perl problem

[Guy Maor]

Roderick Schertler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> It's supposed to open /dev/tty instead of using stdin.  This is the way
> it works on all the systems I could get people to check for me, which
> are Linux with libc5, AIX 4.2, Solaris 2.4, Solaris 2.5, DG/UX 4.11 and
> FreeBSD 2.2.2-R.

I don't understand how this would work.  How do you get the canonical
ttyname from /dev/tty ?

$ tty < /dev/tty
/dev/tty


Guy


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Re: consistency check

[Rev. Joseph Carter]

On Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 06:11:25PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> If you're running a hamm (Debian 2.0, frozen) you might like to look at 
> cruft (cruft_0.9.4_i386.deb, still sitting in Incoming; try 
>   ftp1.us.debian.org:/pub/debian/Incoming 
> or your favourite Incoming mirror) which does something like this.

Just snagged it.


> In particular, it checks that all the files listed as alternatives, as
> diversions and in the dpkg database itself are all present and accounted
> for, and produces a list of things that weren't listed but are still on
> your system, and things that were listed, but aren't. It also takes into
> account symlinks (if you've got a symlink from /usr/tmp to /var/tmp, it'll
> complain if /var/tmp doesn't exist, for example), user home directories
> (it'll make sure that everything in /home/aj is owned by aj, for example),
> and a couple of other things.

VERY interesting results.  I highly suggest throwing the output to a pager
if you do anything at all with it.  It did complain about every single file
it didn't know was going to be there.  /usr/src/* for example (about 4
kernels worth of files); everything on my fat partition (which will be gone
as soon as I discover the best use of the space currently taken up by it)
was also displayed.

It noted all the things left over from local installs (or attempts at same)
and that'll help me clean things up a bit---this is good.

Pointed out a policy issue too..  xfstt in slink (I run hamm, but snagged
that package greedily when I heard about it) puts fonts in /var/ttfonts. 
Would those not be better found in /var/lib/xfstt/fonts with a symlink just
in case?

It pointed out some problems I don't know how to fix properly, though:

 missing: alternatives 
/etc/alternatives/editor.1
 missing: diversions 
/usr/bin/addr.bind
/usr/bin/dig.bind
/usr/lib/nslookup.help.bind
/usr/man/man1/addr.1.gz.bind
/usr/man/man1/dig.1.gz.bind
/usr/man/man8/nslookup.8.gz.bind
 missing: dpkg 
/etc/im/im_palette.pal
/sbin/ldconfig.new
/usr/bin/perl.dist
 missing: alternatives 
/usr/X11R6/bin/rclock
/usr/X11R6/bin/rxvt
/usr/man/man1/nvi.1.gz
 missing: link_dests 
  :
 unexplained: / 
  :

The dangling links others have commented about.  There are missing files
which are my fault.  All in all, there's still a few problems with hamm I
think.


> It's still a work in progress -- in particular there are bunches of files
> that are created when packages are installed but dpkg is never told about
> (/etc/passwd is one example), which cruft doesn't cope with too well at the
> moment -- but it's a start, at least.

Hey, don't be too hard on yourself, it's helped me recover massive diskspace
and maybe the above will help fix some problems with my system and with hamm
in general.


> > e.g. every package that has a checkscript gets this checkscript executed.
> > this way some kernel packages could check, that the user doesn't install
> > the wrong include files by hand, because he thinks, debian 
> > is wrong, and he is right instead (asm,scsi,linux, you know the
> > problem...)
> 
> This is an interesting idea; one that cruft doesn't even attempt to 
> address.
> 
> In this particular case there are a few things. First, if the user *does*
> do this, dpkg will warn them anyway (and I'd presume this would show up
> under dpkg --audit). The only advantage in doing it this way is that the 
> libc6-checkscript could provide some explanation as to why this is a 
> problem, which dpkg probably couldn't.
> 
> I'm not entirely sure this is an appropriate sort of thing to nag the
> user about; we've already got the FSSTND which tells people not to touch
> stuff that we put there, and I'm of the opinion that if the sysadmin
> chooses to violate this then that's their choice, and I'm somewhat 
> disinclined to nag them about it.
> 
> I could certainly include something like this in cruft (after doing all
> it does currently, it could happily just call all the scripts in 
> /usr/lib/cruft/checkscript/ or somewhere similar) and present any results,
> but I'm not entirely convinced that this would be a particularly useful
> thing to do. Are there other examples of things where a script would be
> useful to check that an install hasn't gone weird?

I think you should institute support for checkscripts and I think it should
be suggested everyone use them in their packages.  If packages were better
equipped to clean up after themselves...  It's possible that if you ran the
checkscripts FIRST they would actually be able to clean up the small things
and then cruft could see what in addition it thought needed fixing. 
Yathink?


> > i am always not sure, wether my system is OK. :) sometimes it might be
> > useful to do a new installation (no update) only because then much of the
> > old unneeded rubbish is gone.
> 
>

Re: Intent to package: mlddc

[Petra]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

On Fri, 24 Apr 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Uhm, Hate to tell you, but I already packaged mlddc I belive you can find
it in slink (or maybe still incoming) but Mlddc already has a maintainer.

- -K

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> 
> 
> Monolith Internet Services offers a public dynamic dns service -- I think
> it would be nice to offer a working, tried framework for
> auto-initialization of such a  doodad.
>   Anyway, this will be my first package. I will have it ready in two
> days, but that says nothing of whether I will have been accepted yet...
> (My new maintainer app has been building up dust for about 7 days now...
> Been trying to conjure joey or igor to quickly give me accounts!)
> 
> Monolith has links to MLDDC and other user frontends. As MLDDC is written
> in C, while others are scripted, I chose MLDDC for speed.
> 
>   There is only one problem that I have not found an answer to -- MLDDC
> must revoke its DNS entries (via the NIC) BEFORE pppd dies. This cannot be
> accomplished by placing a script in /etc/ip-up.d -- this requires
> moditying /usr/bin/poff to revoke the records before pppd is killed.
>   If I am not to be allowed to do that, I call for the addition of a
> "run-parts /etc/ppp/before-ppp-start.d" into /usr/bin/pon and "run-parts
> /etc/ppp/before-ppp-shutdown.d" before the respective operations that are
> performed in the scripts. That is, if run-parts runs its scripts in the
> foreground. Otherwise it would be pointless as the scripts would be
> running AS pppd dies --- pppd must die after run-parts has successfully
> completed all of its tasks.
>   I will check on this, and for now write the config script to
> modify poff.
> 

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Compatibility question

[krynux]

I was wandering, is there a DEC Alpha version of Debian linux or are you
planning on doing one ? I know there is a RedHat version, but...

Thanks for your time

David




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freshmeat

[Robert Edmonds]

freshmeat now has a deb repository.

i have been busy all morning as a freshmeat staff member pulling
down packages onto the freshmeat server and updating their
appindex records. (scoop recently implemented the ability to
provide a link to a deb directory on freshmeat) i updated 81
appindex records and their debs are stored on freshmeat's ftp
server. (there are more than 81 .debs there, however, because
some are split, e.g. gimp, amanda, vnc)

if you maintain a package that is in freshmeat's appindex and
your package is the latest version, and the link to the .deb is
not on freshmeat, please email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
and where the package is in debian as well as freshmeat.

--
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-
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