On the question of UI support in JAWS scripting: The JAWS scripting language, which is really a language and a function library, includes some functions for creating specific types of dialogs. Examples:
MessageBox, ExMessageBox, and TimedMessageBox: A dialog with OK, Cancel, and/or a few custom buttons of your choosing. DlgSelectItemInList: A list of options from which you can choose one. DlgSelectFunctionToRun: A list of items with values you can change individually while in the dialog. InputBox: An edit control for entering or modifying a string value. The Quick Settings system: A way to handle custom configuration tasks from a dialog. There is not, however, a provided means for constructing a screen of your own design. On Tue, Jun 06, 2017 at 03:11:17PM +0000, David via Scripting wrote: Of course, it would have been even greater, if Aaron could maybe have informed us all, what method/programming language - if any - they used when developing the WE UI. I recently was contacted by another programmer, in much the same regard. He too adviced the creep-through method of HTA, but as you stated, it sooner or later will be gone. Further he suggested looking into AutoHotkey. AHK I have been using a tiny bit, about a decade ago, but never got as far as creating a real UI - so obviously can't speak much for how easy it is for a blind user to create a neat and working UI. Finally, the way I see it, you might end up having to migrate the whole code into Python. If nothing else, at least NVDA has been developed under that language, and is working with its UI. Comes to Python, Visual Studio, PowerBasic and the rest, I haven't really had my hands on any of that, so cannot tell what kind of a learning curve that might end up being. In the old days, I used to do quite a bit of programming under Turbo Pascal, which in itself long time is gone. But its parent language should still be around, and I know software for the blind community has been developed under there. Then again, such programming systems, often will cost a rather good chunk, even should you manage to get anything off EBay or the like. What's more, listers, did I hear correct, that Jaws scripting does not offer a real UI for its developers? Sure is a big challenge, since many of the modern apps developed for WE, will need an UI for migration. And I could - more than easily - list a couple of handfuls of appss, that will be great missings when leaving WE. OK then, we have a bit of time to get the migration done, hopefully. But it sure takes a bit of time and energy on the developers, to not only learn a new language, but also to see how they best can migrate their old code into the new environment. And first you are at it anyway, you might as well brush up your code, to take the fullest possible advantage of the powerfulness of the new language - leaving you with even more time consumption. My unlucky guess is, that many a developer will not have the time and energy to undergo all of this, meaning that many of the apps that have made WE the powerful screen reader it came to be, likely will not be around any longer. Besides all the apps that dug such deep into the WE environment, that they cannot be transfered in under any other circumstances. As you can see, there will be more than one developer that will embrace any good news you might have, or any idea for a possible transfer. HTA, yes, it might be one temporary way to at least get your apps up running for now, buying yourself a bit of time for learning more sofisticated ways of handling the task. David On 6/6/2017 3:44 PM, Rasmussen, Lloyd via Scripting wrote: > Obviously I am not Doug. And I don't have any great ideas, either. I hope we > can keep some of this discussion going on this listserv, as long as it > exists. But you might need to put these questions to [email protected] > or [email protected] . I think that .hta dates back to Windows 98 and the > active desktop that Microsoft was promoting at that time. I'm not sure it > would even work anywhere today. > You might take a look at PowerBASIC. Its developer died, but the company and > its forums are still functioning, and I think version 9 is free. > Another possibility would be to create browser add-ons or web pages that use > JavaScript instead of VBScript. > > Lloyd Rasmussen, Senior Staff Engineer > National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped, Library of > Congress > Washington, DC 20542 202-707-0535 > http://www.loc.gov/nls/ > The preceding opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of the > Library of Congress, NLS. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scripting [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Rod Hutton via Scripting > Sent: Monday, June 05, 2017 11:01 PM > To: Doug Lee; Window-Eyes Scripting List > Subject: RE: migrating apps > > Hi Doug, > > As an experienced programmer, you would be able to help me with some of the > questions I have these days, I think. > Perhaps you are aware of the Window-Eyes UI Design app, a tool which made > designing app user interfaces very easy and quick. > Now that Window-Eyes will no longer be developed, I am looking for a way to > design user interfaces for some of my Window-Eyes apps, many of which could > function as stand-alone apps, after converting them to VB. > I've installed Visual Studio 2017, and begun the tutorial offered by > Microsoft to introduce new users to the product. > So far, it seems that designing user interfaces with this program is a bit of > a challenge. > I'm wondering if you can offer some advice or guidelines to simplify the > design work. > Indeed, I have turned to Visual Studio as the appropriate IDE since, as I > understand, Microsoft is encouraging developers to develop for the App Store, > and so this is the correct tool for the job. > However, perhaps my assumption that I must or should use Visual Studio is > incorrect. > Last night, I did run across a Microsoft tutorial for designing user > interfaces using HTA, which is HTML for Applications, a file format which > combines HTML and vbScript into files with the .HTA file extension. > Designing user interfaces with HTA could be done very easily using a text > editor, and so this seemed to me the anser to my prayers. > However, after some further research and reflection, I came to realize that > this file format will not last long, since it is based on Internet Explorer, > and, once Edge takes over the world, Internet Explorer, and everything based > upon it, will eventually go the way of the passenger pigeon. > And So, I guess I'm back to dealing with Visual Studio, unless you have any > other suggestions, or at least guidance in handling Visual Studio to make it > something I can use more easily than it appears. > I am grateful for any advice you can offer. > > Thanks for listening, > > Rod Hutton > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scripting > [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Doug Lee via Scripting > Sent: May 30, 2017 9:43 PM > To: Tom Kingston <[email protected]>; Window-Eyes Scripting List > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: migrating apps > > I read your initial message as saying you would have to create 22 files for a > JAWS script. The scripts to which you refer, which seem far more > comprehensive just based on what I know of some of the files involved, > incorporate > code libraries to simplify app-specific tasks. The HSC and MSAA files in > particular would appear to fit into this category. That is an indication of a > specific scripter's choice of file organization but not an indication of > what is required for JAWS scripting. :-) > > I hope this is helpful, and also that it is taken in the educational spirit > in which it is intended. Any new environment can be frustrating, especially > when one encounters it amid an urgent need to master it quickly. > > On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 06:39:39PM -0400, Tom Kingston via Scripting wrote: > On 5/30/2017 4:38 PM, Dennis Long via Scripting wrote: >> I agree it's far fewer than 22 files. > Then count these files, which is what's included in the download. > HSCRemoteServerFetch.jsb > HSCRemoteServerFetch.jsd > hsc_msaa.jsh > msaa.jsh > reaper.jbs > reaper.jcf > reaper.jkm > reaper.jsb > reaper.jsd > reaper.jsm > reaper.JSS > reaper.sil > reaper_host32.JCF > reaper_host32.jsb > reaper_host32.JSS > reaper_host64.JCF > reaper_host64.jsb > reaper_host64.JSS > snow_MSAA.jcf > snow_MSAA.jsb > snow_MSAA.jsd > snow_MSAA.jss > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Scripting >> [mailto:[email protected]] On >> Behalf Of Doug Lee via Scripting >> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 4:32 PM >> To: Tom Kingston; Window-Eyes Scripting List >> Subject: Re: migrating apps >> >> Speaking as a professional JAWS scripter, I admit I'm surprised to hear you >> needed 22 files for what sounds like a simple script. Typically you would >> have these: >> >> - A jss file, which compiles to a jsb file, for the code itself. We'll count >> that as two. You type your code into the jss file and the JAWS Script >> Manager makes the jsb file when you compile it. >> - A jsd file for the help text for the scripts. Handled automatically by the >> JAWS Script Manager in many cases. >> - A jkm file for key mappings. Handled automatically by the Script Manager >> in many cases. >> >> You may also include a jcf file for configuration options and/or a jdf file >> for dictionary entries, though I doubt your script set for Window-Eyes had >> the latter. If you want to name graphic icons, you could use a jgf file. >> Frames, though rarely used these days, would involve a jff and a jfd file; >> but again, I doubt those would be involved in your project. >> >> I'm still a ways from 22. :-) >> >> On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 04:20:46PM -0400, Tom Kingston via Scripting wrote: >> JAWS scripting is a proprietary mish mash of this that the other and his >> brother. So there's no such thing as real world resources such as with >> Python. >> I wrote the Window-Eyes script for Reaper and was then surprised to find >> that the JAWS script was not locked up. So I downloaded it and took a quick >> look. I couldn't believe that what I did in one small VBS file, an XML file, >> a set file, and a we file required 22 files to be done in JAWS. >> Needless to say, I have no interest in learning a proprietary scripting >> method. And I suspect it will probably seem nonsensical to a real >> programmer's mind. But that's just speculation. It comes from an experience >> years ago when a friend of mine wanted to learn JAWS scripting. Knowing >> nothing about it I assumed that at least the common denominators of >> virtually all programming languages would apply. Boy was I wrong. My >> understanding is that it has become at least somewhat more conventional. But >> unless all else fails it's not a mess I wish to drown in. >> Regards, >> Tom >> >> >> On 5/30/2017 10:54 AM, Dennis Long via Scripting wrote: >>> What about scripting for Jaws? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Scripting >>> [mailto:[email protected]] >>> On Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn via Scripting >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 10:53 AM >>> To: Chip Orange; Window-Eyes Scripting List >>> Subject: Re: migrating apps >>> >>> Mr Lee of NVAccess / NVDA proposed on twitter yesterday having a one >>> day class on scripting NVDA. I guess it is time to learn Python. >>> Anybody interested in doing a set of regular discussions like Chip did >>> way back to migrate our common knowledge into NVDA scripting >>> knowledge? I wonder how difficult it would be to have an NVDA that >>> emulates the favorite parts of WindowEyes. I expect the hardest part >>> considering that NVDA doesn't appear to have a virtual mode would be >>> the User Windows functions but then it seems that WindowEyes wasn't >> supporting that very aggressively. >>> Best Wishes, >>> >>> Jonathan Cohn >>> >>> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 7:01 PM Chip Orange via Scripting < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi David, >>>> >>>> You could look at the possibility of running your app as a Windows >>>> VBScript rather than a Window-Eyes VBScript. You'd have to do >>>> without the WE dialogs and all the other WE features of scripting >>>> which we all used, but if you don't make use of these features very >>>> much, you might be able to get a Windows VBScript version to run. >>>> If you could, this would be the easiest way to get some apps converted >> away from WE. >>>> VBScript does have some very basic input and output commands (you >>>> can display a dialog and get a string response from the user), this >>>> could possibly be enough for your needs. It has no equivalents to >>>> MSAA or Windows etc., so nothing which assisted you with >>>> accessibility is likely to run. >>>> >>>> Of course, Window-Eyes will continue to run for some indefinite >>>> amount of time ... and I'd be glad to share the source code to >>>> Remind Me Where with anyone who'd like to try tinkering with it while it >> does. >>>> If you wanted to keep something big like it is running, I would >>>> guess learning VB.net might be the closest to what you're used to. >>>> >>>> Like Richard, I feel something like the end of Animal Farm as well. >>>> >>>> Take care, >>>> >>>> Chip >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Scripting >>>> [mailto:[email protected] >>>> m] >>>> On Behalf Of David via Scripting >>>> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 11:49 AM >>>> To: Aaron Smith; Window-Eyes Scripting List >>>> Subject: migrating apps >>>> >>>> I do understand that an app that has been developed under the great >>>> scripting capability of WineEyes, will not be possible to simply >>>> plug in under Jaws. At least, it is my understanding, that Jaws has >>>> its own dedicated scripting system. >>>> >>>> Still, a number of apps, both officially released and many that I >>>> have developed for my personal usage, would be a great miss when >> migrating. >>>> Whenever the migrating will be. Smile. >>>> >>>> Now, is there a way for me, to make my apps become stand-alone, in >>>> the sense that they could be run under any screen reader? That they >>>> still would be using features like the UI capabilities and other >>>> functionality of for instance GWToolkit? I do understand, that apps >>>> that make great usage of, or directly works with internal features >>>> of WinEyes, may not be possible to run under any other screen >>>> readers, since they won't have any functionality to hook on to. But >>>> an app like for instance the "remind me where", that Chip Orange >>>> developed, and which base its main functionality on information from >>>> the net, and greatly on the UI environment of WinEyes scripting, >>>> sould such a program be possible to make go general? Sure I could >>>> have thought of a good number of other apps that I have come to rely >>>> on, and which would have been great to see under other screen readers. >>>> >>>> Guess my basic question is, what would I need to do in my app code, >>>> to make it possible to run outside the WinEyes environment, if that >>>> is at all possible? And if realistic, does there exist any sample >>>> code that I can look at, so as to see it done in practicality? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of >>>> the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>>> >>>> For membership options, visit >>>> >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com/l >>>> is >>>> ts3717 >>>> %40comcast.net >>>> <http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com/ >>>> li >>>> sts3717%40comcast.net> >>>> . >>>> For subscription options, visit >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >>>> List archives can be found at >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of >>>> the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>>> >>>> For membership options, visit >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com/j >>>> on >>>> .c.cohn%40gmail.com >>>> . >>>> For subscription options, visit >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >>>> List archives can be found at >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >>>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>> scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> <http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com/at >>> tachme >>> nts/20170530/13d902d4/attachment.htm> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>> >>> For membership options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com/den >>> nisl19 >>> 82%40gmail.com. >>> For subscription options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >>> List archives can be found at >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>> For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com/tom.kings >> ton%40charter.net. >>> For subscription options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >>> List archives can be found at >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author >> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com/doug.lee% >> 40ssbbartgroup.com. >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >> List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >> >> -- >> Doug Lee, Senior Accessibility Programmer SSB BART Group (soon to be Level >> Access) mailto:[email protected] http://www.ssbbartgroup.com "While >> they were saying among themselves it cannot be done, it was done." --Helen >> Keller _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author >> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com/dennisl19 >> 82%40gmail.com. >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/scripting-window-eyes.com >> List archives 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