>This is, all at once, both a simple and a complex problem. He uses a connection
>which does not have a static ip address. The ip addresses used by his ISP are
>listed in the MAPS Dialup User List (see http://www.mail-abuse.org/dul/) as
>they should be.
And there you have the problem. Dialup Linux users are being
intentionally blocked from sending mail SOLELY because they are dialup.
Now let's put this into perspective; Windows can't run with this
configuration. It's impossible. Windows doesn't come with a built-in MTA.
All mail from a Windows machine HAS to go to the ISP. So the above filter
is geared solely at dialup users who run Linux or Unix clones. It's an
effective way of forcing us back to Windows.
Thank you, Chuck.
BTW, having a static IP address doesn't mean I won't be dialup. It just
means I'm paying for the same IP address every time I log on. I checked
on that. Also, ISDN here is dialup as well - the problem still exists.
I'm too far out for DSL, have to be within 15,000 line feet, and cable
modem doesn't reach here either. So your solution doesn't work. The only
way out with your mail-abuse filter if I want to stay on your list and
still administer my domains is to switch back to Windows.
>He also uses a dynamic DNS service (see http://www.dhis.org) to
>handle at least one of his subdomains. When he sends mail directly from his
>dial-up without using his ISP's SMTP host to relay (which is one of the keys to
>proper implementation of envelope masquerading)
Which is a more restrictive configuration than Windows offers. It forces
me to operate with one and one only email address. Windows allows me to
use all my email addresses with my ISP acting as my MTA.
Kind-of makes Linux worthless. :)
>the mail is blocked by any MTA
>which is configured to use the DUL,
I can attest from experience that this is an accurate statement. God bless
Microsoft!!!
>in spite of the fact that he's using the
>dhis service...
All dhis does is resolve my virtual domain. It has nothing to do with
outgoing mail, as it doesn't serve as my MTA either.
>and if dhis happens to be flaky at the moment he's sending just
>forget about it, only a completely open relay would/will accept his traffic.
Wrong. My machine ID resolves to my ISP, mpls.uswest.net, not to dhis.
All dhis does is map my virtual domain to my box and forward mail
addressed to this virtual domain and my cnames to my box. It has nothing
to do with outgoing mail.
>>From what I have gathered his ISP rejects mail routed through their MTA which
>does not have a Reply-To: address in their domain (I do not know this for a
>fact but it may be a part of the issue).
Close. They check the outgoing user@machinename to make sure that
unauthorized use of their system isn't going on. I can use envelope
masquerading to force all users to show from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Let's
say this isn't a business machine, but just a family machine. We have 2
email accounts on uswest, one for Jan and one for myself. Those are
incoming email accounts, not real accounts. Outgoing mail from here has
to show the ID of the actual account, so Jan is forced to show her return
address as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nickcole and Rose are left totally
out of the picture. We don't have that problem with Windows. Only with
your mail-abuse.org filter which forces me to buy a separate ISP account
and computer for each person here who wants to run Linux. Thanks, but I
can do the same with Windows on one machine and one ISP account.
>I don't think this configuration is
>correct on his ISP's part but it's not my call, it's their service and they can
>do as they wish.
Gee, it's funny that you feel they can run as they wish, but us dialup
Linux users have to bow down to your configuration or get thrown off your
list.
>I know that in the case of the vast majority of the ISP's I've
>worked with the access file for sendmail is set to allow relay for their entire
>dial-up ip space and they don't care if the mail is sent from an MTA or a piece
>of client software. Now there are some other ISP's who are truly beginning to
>throw the baby out with tha bath water as they've begun to use routing rules to
>block any traffic from or to port 25 either in or out of their ip space which
>does not use their MTA.
Not much different than what you're doing. They're doing it on this end,
you on that end.
>Regardless, what he is trying to do is run a full-blown
>MTA without "real" DNS,
A sin punishable by death.
>without a dedicated connection or static ip,
Add in eternity in hell.
>without
>the support or knowledge of his ISP,
Now my family also has to go to hell for my sins.
>without a correctly configured MTA,
Gee, Chuck. My MTA works just fine. You've admitted yourself that you're
wholly supporting death by IP address. For those of us who have the wrong
IP address, well, that's just too bad. Our mail dies in cyberspace.
>and
>simultaneously wants to achieve all of this for multiple domains and,
>apparently considers himself a "service" provider.
Funny. Isn't that what Linux offers? Oh, how could I forget! We're
trying to force Linux users into a Windows configuration! Guess I'm just
not bright enough for you, Chuck.
>Now that comment could be
>interpreted as derisive but it's not... all I'm trying to say is that to
>accomplish this task would be a brilliant hack and quite difficult for the best
>of us, much less someone who has only a few months experience with Linux!
Hardly. The ONLY glitch in my setup is that you've gotten together with
the money pocket people who bow down to Gates and you're trying to force
free enterprise out of the Internet.
If I want to set up a domain on my Linux box, you have absolutely no right
to force me out of doing just that! This great land of ours was built on
inovation and people being allowed to experiment and learn, to adapt and
modify, and to search daily for new ways to do things that help to meet
the ever-changing needs of society. Society is changing but you're
fighting hard to hold it back and control it, just like AT&T of old.
Remember those old rotary dial phones that lasted forever but offered
absolutely nothing in return? With the breakup of AT&T the "status quo"
ended and inovation became the daily routine as great minds and
entrepreneurs fought hard for a share of the market place. Because of
this we today have this Internet, powerful PC's at rock-bottom prices,
bank cards that allow me to live in Minnesota but bank in Utah! God bless
the free enterprise system that allows me the freedom to do what I need to
do to meet my needs, even on my home computer!!!
>In the interim he could simply relay through his provider's SMTP host and use
>fetchmail to get the mail
Which locks me into one email address from this box, which forces the
question, why bother with Linux? With this setup Windows is more
versatile.
>sadly it appears that he
>would rather make accusations
Thanks to your opening comment I don't have to. You admitted yourself
that dialup users are intentionally being block from using Linux in the
way it was designed to be used; running your own MTA with your own
domains, if you wish.
>reasonably with the technical issues which, as I have said, are not simple!
Yeah, right. I can explain in 15 minutes how to set this up.
>Imagine, if you will, that vger (the home of the Linux Kernel mailing list and
>the place where Linus Torvalds holds court) is singling out Linux users on
>dial-ups for exclusion and is deliberately doing so with malice aforethought!
Good point. I wonder if Linus is aware that people using his creation are
being kicked out.
>C'mon... I don't think so. It's a technical issue, not a political one.
Wrong. Chuck, I've been a business owner just like you. Your solution
for all us little people is to use envelope masquerading and our ISP as
our MTA. Using this configuration is very simple and prevents all of us
from figuring out how the system really works. After all, we all know
that Sendmail is SOOOOO hard - too hard for us stupid people. So with us
afraid of it we're not going to figure out how it works. Since I can't
figure it out that means that my employer can't ask me for help. He has
to hire you. :) Real slick deal.
This is completely political, and economical.
God bless Red Hat and the free enterprise system!!!
You aren't going to force me into one email address no matter how hard you
try. In time Chuck. Just wait. You're kicking people out. Once I get
this puppy figured out I'll take all the Internet dialup trash you're
rejecting, all us home users, and teach them how to use Red Hat to its
fullest, mail and all. <big grin>
Glen
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