HI Tomas,
Thanks a lot for not letting this go. It is truly appreciated. I had
been using Rterm directly as Jonathan had suggested since we discussed
this a number of months ago on the R-devel list. However, about a week
and a half ago I accidentally launched Rgui for R 4.2.2 (which I
installed around the end of October) and was surprised when I could
actually use it like I could use the pre-4.2 versions of R! I have been
using it for a little more than a week now and was intending to write to
you, but you beat me with this message.
The accessibility of Rgui 4.2.2 seems very similar to R 4.1.2 (which I
still have on my system). In contrast, Rgui 4.2.1 is more or less
unusable. I was wanting to ask you if perhaps something got changed in R
4.2.2? Nothing jumped out at me in the release notes, but I could easily
have overlooked something.
After reading this message, I went and checked the cursor blink setting
in my 4.2.2 installation and it is indeed set to partial. You're right
in that occasionally JAWS loses the cursor and the ability to read the R
window. However, simply pressing the <enter> key while Rgui has the
focus fixes this. It seems that drawing a new command prompt on a new
line sets JAWS straight and I am able to keep working. I haven't used
4.1.2 for a while, but I think it had the same issue. I assumed that
this was caused by moving from Windows 7 to Windows 10, since I never
encountered this kind of issue in windows 7. I'll try out full cursor
and see if that makes a difference in 4.2.2.
Also, I'll download the development snapshot and try it out. I'll let
you know how I get on. Please excuse me if I don't get to it
immediately; things are a bit crazy at work at the moment and it is that
time of the year too!
Cheers,
Andrew.
On 20/12/2022 19:33, Tomas Kalibera wrote:
Dear Andrew, Jonathan,
I had a closer look and tried to improve accessibility in Rgui, please
see below. I would be grateful for feedback.
Rgui supports three cursor types, which can be selected via Edit/GUI
preferences/Cursor blink.
The default is "partial", but for screen readers, please use "full". You
can change the selection in the menu and then "Save..." to save it into
your Rconsole file. If you already have the file, the corresponding
selection is "cursor_blink = Full".
The "full" cursor is implemented as the standard Windows "caret" and
this is what screen readers can see. Once you set this cursor as the
default in your Rconsole file and re-start Rgui, but before you start
using the console, please switch focus out and back in (e.g. press
Alt+TAB twice). This helps NVDA detect the characters under the cursor
in already released versions of R. Please start the screen reader before
starting Rgui.
I found that the "full" cursor implementation has a number of problems:
in some situation it disappears when it shouldn't, in some the other way
around. I thought this was confusing the screen reader, so I fixed most
of these cases.
However, the true cause was that Rgui didn't create the cursor right
when it got focus the first time. Luckily NVDA is open-source, so one
can read and modify the source code to find out. I've added a
work-around to Rgui, which is used only with the "full" cursor, because
the "partial" cursor confuses the screen reader too much to be usable,
anyway. So, after this fix, one doesn't have to do that focus out+in trick.
The improvements are in R-devel (revision 83482 or newer). I would be
grateful if you could test it, so that it could be improved further (or
reverted if it actually turned out worse). Particularly if you find a
problem reproducible with NVDA, that should be something I could
diagnose and improve, as I have the sources.
I've been testing with NVDA and I'd be curious about the impact on JAWS.
Rgui doesn't work with Narrator.
Thanks,
Tomas
On 9/22/22 23:15, Andrew Hart via R-devel wrote:
On 22/09/2022 16:42, Toby Hocking wrote:
Another option is to use https://emacspeak.sourceforge.net/
<https://emacspeak.sourceforge.net/> (version of emacs editor/ide
which can speak letters/words/lines -- has a blind maintainer) with
https://ess.r-project.org/ <https://ess.r-project.org/> (interface
for editing and running R code from within emacs)
Thanks everyone for all the suggestions. Of course, the optimal
solution would be to figure out what is going on in Rgui, but, as is
always the case, the blind user use case is a fairly niche one. I
appreciate all the suggestions for finding an immediate solution to my
problem.
I don't use any kind of IDE for working with R since I simply haven't
found one that is accessible or that i understand how to use. There is
a plug-in for the Eclipse IDE I installed a few years ago, but I
didn't understand the first thing about how it was to be used. So I've
just always worked with an editor open in one Window and R in another,
working interactively in R or bouncing over to the editor for more
complex things and sourcing code into R as necessary. However, I only
use the R console in Rgui. I went and had a look at Rterm, which I
have never used on Windows; I've only ever used it when ssh-ing into
Linux systems to use R. However, I've just found out that Rterm does a
number of fairly important things that probably mean I can just use it
instead of Rgui:
1. You can paste from the clipboard into the Rterm prompt;
2. It has a command history;
3. If you plot something, it opens a Window to draw the plot (I never
realised it could do this and had always assumed Rgui was needed for
this); and
4. It opens the HTML help if you ask for help on windows. I only ever
saw it display text help on Linux, but I was logged in remotely.
Text-based help is fine when ssh-ing into a machine, but HTML help is
much nicer to read and navigate.
I think I'll just switch over to Rterm for a while, but I can also
check out ess, which I wasn't aware of.
Thanks a lot,
Andrew.
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