Just leave it, I think. Some nations have 4 national languages (as Martin will know), some languages are not national, and adopted children often do not speak their native (=born) language... I suspect someone already put a substantial amount of thought into the terminology.
-pd > On 1 Sep 2017, at 09:45 , Martin Maechler <maech...@stat.math.ethz.ch> wrote: > >>>>>> Paul McQuesten <mcques...@gmail.com> >>>>>> on Thu, 31 Aug 2017 18:48:12 -0500 writes: > >> Actually, I do agree with you about Microsoft. >> But they have so many users that their terminology should not be ignored. > >> Here are a few more views: > >> https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/ssw_aix_71/com.ibm.aix.performance/natl_lang_supp_locale_speed.htm >> https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E23824_01/html/E26033/glmbx.html >> http://support.sas.com/documentation/cdl/en/nlsref/69741/HTML/default/viewer.htm#n1n9bwctsthuqbn1xgipyw5xwujl.htm >> https://docs.intersystems.com/latest/csp/docbook/DocBook.UI.Page.cls?KEY=GSA_config_nls >> https://sites.ualberta.ca/dept/chemeng/AIX-43/share/man/info/C/a_doc_lib/aixprggd/genprogc/nls.htm >> http://scc.ustc.edu.cn/zlsc/tc4600/intel/2017.0.098/compiler_f/common/core/GUID-1AEC889E-98A7-4A7D-91B3-865C476F603D.html > >> It does appear, however, that what I call 'National Language' is often >> referred to as 'Native Language'. And the 'National Language' terminology >> is said to not be used consistently: >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_language > >> I do still feel, however, that claiming 'Natural Language' support in R >> sets expectations of new users overly high. > >> Thank you for spending so much time on such a minor nit. > > continuing the nits and gnats : > > I think I now understand what you mean. From the little I > understand about English intricacies and with my not > fully developed gut feeling of good English (which I rarely > speak but sometimes appreciate when reading / listening), > I would indeed > > prefer 'Native Language' > to 'Natural Language' > > Martin Maechler > ETH Zurich > >> Regards > > > >> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Duncan Murdoch <murdoch.dun...@gmail.com> >> wrote: > >>> On 31/08/2017 6:37 PM, Paul McQuesten wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks, Duncan. But if it is not inappropriate, I feel empowered to argue. >>>> >>>> According to this definition, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ >>>> Natural_language: >>>> In neuropsychology, linguistics and the philosophy of language, a >>>> natural language or ordinary language is any language that has evolved >>>> naturally in humans ... >>>> >>>> Thus this banner statement may appear over-claiming to a significant >>>> fraction of R users. >>>> >>>> It seems that LOCALE is called 'National language' support in other >>>> software systems. >>>> Eg: https://www.microsoft.com/resources/msdn/goglobal/default.mspx >>>> >>> >>> I wouldn't take Microsoft as an authority on this (or much of anything). >>> They really are amazingly incompetent, considering how much money they earn. >>> >>> Duncan Murdoch >>> >>> >>>> And, yes, this is a low priority issue. All of you have better things to >>>> do. >>>> >>>> R is an extremely powerful and comprehensive software system. >>>> Thank you all for that. >>>> And I would like to clean one gnat from the windshield. >>>> >>>> I just wax pedantic at times. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 5:13 PM, Duncan Murdoch <murdoch.dun...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:murdoch.dun...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 31/08/2017 5:38 PM, Paul McQuesten wrote: >>>> >>>> The R signon banner includes this statement: >>>> Natural language support but running in an English locale >>>> >>>> Should that not say 'National' instead of 'Natural'? >>>> Meaning that LOCALE support is enabled, not that the interface >>>> understands >>>> human language? >>>> >>>> >>>> No, "natural language" refers to human languages, but it doesn't >>>> imply that R understands them. NLS just means that messages may be >>>> presented in (or translated to) other human languages in an >>>> appropriate context. >>>> >>>> For example, you can start R on most platforms from the console using >>>> >>>> LANGUAGE=de R >>>> >>>> and instead of the start message you saw, you'll see >>>> >>>> R ist freie Software und kommt OHNE JEGLICHE GARANTIE. >>>> Sie sind eingeladen, es unter bestimmten Bedingungen weiter zu >>>> verbreiten. >>>> Tippen Sie 'license()' or 'licence()' für Details dazu. >>>> >>>> and so on. >>>> >>>> Please ignore this and forgive me if this is an inappropriate >>>> post. I am a >>>> N00B in R. >>>> >>>> >>>> I don't think it is inappropriate. >>>> >>>> Duncan Murdoch > > ______________________________________________ > R-devel@r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel -- Peter Dalgaard, Professor, Center for Statistics, Copenhagen Business School Solbjerg Plads 3, 2000 Frederiksberg, Denmark Phone: (+45)38153501 Office: A 4.23 Email: pd....@cbs.dk Priv: pda...@gmail.com ______________________________________________ R-devel@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
