On Mon, Sep 22, 2025 at 09:08:47AM -0400, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 22, 2025 at 01:49:55PM +0100, Daniel P. Berrangé wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 22, 2025 at 08:15:20AM -0400, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2025 at 12:33:26PM +0100, Daniel P. Berrangé wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Sep 19, 2025 at 04:07:19PM -0400, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > > > On Fri, Sep 19, 2025 at 04:30:53PM +0200, Christian Speich wrote:
> > > > > > This removes the change introduced in [1] that prevents the use of
> > > > > > vhost-user-device and vhost-user-device-pci on unpatched QEMU 
> > > > > > builds.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > [1]: 6275989647efb708f126eb4f880e593792301ed4
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Signed-off-by: Christian Speich <[email protected]>
> > > > > > ---
> > > > > > vhost-user-device and vhost-user-device-pci started out as user
> > > > > > creatable devices. This was changed in [1] when the vhost-user-base 
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > introduced.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > The reason given is to prevent user confusion. Searching 
> > > > > > qemu-discuss or
> > > > > > google for "vhost-user-device" I've seen no confused users.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Our use case is to provide wifi emulation using 
> > > > > > "vhost-user-device-pci",
> > > > > > which currently is working fine with the QEMU 9.0.2 present in 
> > > > > > Ubuntu
> > > > > > 24.04. With newer QEMU versions we now need to patch, distribute and
> > > > > > maintain our own QEMU packages, which is non-trivial.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > So I want to propose lifting this restriction to make this feature
> > > > > > usable without a custom QEMU.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > [1]: 6275989647efb708f126eb4f880e593792301ed4
> > > > > 
> > > > > The confusion is after someone reuses the ID you are claiming without
> > > > > telling anyone and then linux guests will start binding that driver to
> > > > > your device.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > We want people doing this kind of thing to *at a minimum*
> > > > > go ahead and register a device id with the virtio TC,
> > > > > but really to write and publish a spec.
> > > > 
> > > > Wanting people to register a device ID is a social problem and
> > > > we're trying to apply a technical hammer to it, which is rarely
> > > > an productive approach.
> > > > 
> > > > If we want to demonstrate that vhost-user-device is "risky", then
> > > > how about we rename it to have an 'x-' prefix and thus disclaim
> > > > any support for it, but none the less allow its use. Document it
> > > > as an experimental device, and if it breaks, users get to keep
> > > > both pieces.
> > > 
> > > Maybe with the insecure tag you are working on?
> > 
> > Sure.
> > 
> > > And disable in the default config?
> > 
> > Disabling in default config would retain the very problem that Christian
> > is trying to solve - that no distro would have the functionality available
> > for users.
> 
> I think his problem is that he has to patch qemu.

Yes I'm trying to avoid that. Patching qemu also involes providing updates
(and security patches!) for it. This is a very high burden to turn this
simple flag on.

> 
> As described, this is a developer option not an end user one.

I don't really get the distintion between developer and end user here.

As a developer I'm an end user too, I'm concerned with the linux kernel
and the additional host tooling for mac80211_hwsim support but QEMU
I'm just using as an user.

Greetings,
Christian

> 
> 
> I know Red Hat will disable it anyway - we support what we ship.
> 
> 
> > With regards,
> > Daniel
> > -- 
> > |: https://berrange.com      -o-    https://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange 
> > :|
> > |: https://libvirt.org         -o-            https://fstop138.berrange.com 
> > :|
> > |: https://entangle-photo.org    -o-    https://www.instagram.com/dberrange 
> > :|
> 
> 

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