Plasma Meeting 2017-04-03 Present: romangg, notmart, d_ed, Riddell, Sho_
romangg: last week I did D5270 needs review. but I would like to ask you if you have a solution to raise/open the window directly instead of only invoking the context menu? notmart: * better management of minimum sizes for plasmawindowed (pushed) * ctrl+q support for plasmawindowed * better statusnotifieritem support for plasmawindowed: https://phabricator.kde.org/D5242 Diff 5242 "fixes for plasmawindowed sni support" [Closed] https://phabricator.kde.org/D5242 * retrocompatibility hackeroo for IconItem: https://phabricator.kde.org/D5243 Diff 5243 "if the user did set an implicit size, keep it" [Needs Review] https://phabricator.kde.org/D5243 * better layout and animate keyboard https://phabricator.kde.org/D5254 Diff 5254 "better layout and animate keyboard" [Needs Review] https://phabricator.kde.org/D5254 * Kirigami2: introduce ApplicationItem when ApplicationWindow can't be used (like gemini that neeeds to do its own window) https://phabricator.kde.org/D5166 Diff 5166 "introduce ApplicationItem" [Needs Review] https://phabricator.kde.org/D5166 * the 3 qt patches are still in limbo and i'm just getting frustrated by that :/ d_ed: I wrote support for bundling translations in plasmoids the i18n part is up for review, and I wrote support for QSvgIconEngine::isNull() which is needed for properly fixing the QIcon::fromTheme fallback that Kai's been making patches for Riddell: nothing from me I'm afraid, although amsterdam was nice no releases this week or for the next three Sho_: * [TM] Fixed applet status not reverting to passive when the last window in demands-attention state is closed (while keeping the status), interfered with panel auto-hide * [Other] Was mostly busy with Konversation and Yakuake releases this week now i noticed the latte dock people did a major release -> http://psifidotos.blogspot.kr/2017/04/latte-dock-v06-fresh-air.html next there's two tricky things i wanted to inquire about because they need some team think the first is, ivan's been working on making kicker favorites kastats-based, which makes them per-activity, but also global and shared across all launcher instances backporting TM group dialog from 5.9 to 5.8 Cheers, Eike
[19:00] <Sho_> it's time for cool people to have a meeting [19:00] <Sho_> who's cool? [19:00] * notmart here [19:00] <Sho_> bshah, notmart, d_ed, Riddell, romangg, ... [19:00] <d_ed> I'm about, don't think I have much to say though [19:01] <Riddell> hola [19:01] <romangg> can I go second? need to leave early. [19:01] <Riddell> likewise not much to add [19:01] <Sho_> that's ok, i did app releases last week so my plasma list is a tad short too, but at least i have a question to bring [19:01] <Sho_> sure romangg [19:01] <Sho_> you can go first even [19:01] <Sho_> let's start with romangg [19:01] <romangg> Awesome! :D [19:01] <Sho_> go go go [19:01] <romangg> last week I did D5270 [19:01] <sKreamer> Diff 5270 "[System Tray] Fix regression on SNI fallback" [Needs Review] https://phabricator.kde.org/D5270 [19:01] --> [Enrico] (~chiccoroc@gentoo/contributor/Enrico) has joined this channel. [19:02] <romangg> needs review. but I would like to ask you if you have a solution to raise/open the window directly instead of only invoking the context menu? [19:02] <-- fbeutel (~thunde...@wl-pool2-ont-076.uni-muenster.de) has left this server (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). [19:02] --> llucas (~holo...@host-89-230-174-106.dynamic.mm.pl) has joined this channel. [19:02] <notmart> looking [19:02] <romangg> the problem is that the needed DBus method Activate isn't implemented correctly by libappindicator [19:03] <romangg> the workaround for now was/is now again to use the correctly implemented DBus method to raise the context menu instead. [19:03] --> ltinkl (~ltinkl@2a00:1028:83cc:7d32:79a4:34bf:148d:3a35) has joined this channel. [19:03] <notmart> but the metoh is exported i guess... [19:03] <romangg> but it would be better to raise the window directly on left click. XFCE can do it apparently. [19:03] <notmart> is possible from dbus to see if the implementation is libappindicator?\ [19:04] <romangg> not sure. iirc yes. but in any case it's possible to see if the activate method worked or if it returned an error [19:04] <romangg> it already uses that to raise the context menu instead. [19:05] <romangg> ok, that's all for me. if somebody has a solution or more question regarding this issue, please reach out :) [19:05] <Sho_> aye [19:05] <Sho_> notmart is next [19:05] <notmart> ok [19:05] <notmart> * better management of minimum sizes for plasmawindowed (pushed) [19:05] <notmart> * ctrl+q support for plasmawindowed [19:06] <notmart> * better statusnotifieritem support for plasmawindowed: https://phabricator.kde.org/D5242 [19:06] <sKreamer> Diff 5242 "fixes for plasmawindowed sni support" [Closed] https://phabricator.kde.org/D5242 [19:06] <notmart> * retrocompatibility hackeroo for IconItem: https://phabricator.kde.org/D5243 [19:06] <sKreamer> Diff 5243 "if the user did set an implicit size, keep it" [Needs Review] https://phabricator.kde.org/D5243 [19:06] <notmart> * better layout and animate keyboard https://phabricator.kde.org/D5254 [19:06] <sKreamer> Diff 5254 "better layout and animate keyboard" [Needs Review] https://phabricator.kde.org/D5254 [19:06] <notmart> * Kirigami2: introduce ApplicationItem when ApplicationWindow can't be used (like gemini that neeeds to do its own window) https://phabricator.kde.org/D5166 [19:06] <sKreamer> Diff 5166 "introduce ApplicationItem" [Needs Review] https://phabricator.kde.org/D5166 [19:06] <notmart> * the 3 qt patches are still in limbo and i'm just getting frustrated by that :/ [19:06] <Sho_> sorry about the iconitem stuff :/ [19:07] <Sho_> reaching out to qt people didn't help? [19:07] <Sho_> even on irc? [19:07] <notmart> current status is frederik "will look at it" [19:07] <notmart> will periodically pester people on #qt-labs about them this week [19:08] <Sho_> alright [19:08] <Sho_> d_ed would be next [19:08] <notmart> i did have a couple of reviews on 2 of the patches, which i adressed in new revisions [19:08] <notmart> so something moved [19:08] <d_ed> I wrote support for bundling translations in plasmoids [19:09] <d_ed> the i18n part is up for review, [19:09] <Sho_> oh that's nifty [19:09] <notmart> awesome [19:10] <d_ed> and I wrote support for QSvgIconEngine::isNull() which is needed for properly fixing the QIcon::fromTheme fallback that Kai's been making patches for [19:10] <Sho_> oh that's even niftier [19:10] <d_ed> I put it in dev which is Qt5.11 now? [19:10] <notmart> another patch in qt that will need some effort to get in? [19:10] <d_ed> nah, got merged that day [19:11] <notmart> oh, nice [19:11] * notmart jealous [19:11] * Sho_ too [19:11] <Sho_> maybe d_ed needs to submit all our qt patches [19:11] <Sho_> :) [19:12] * bcooksley three.... getting patches into Qt is near impossible :( [19:12] <d_ed> it depends on the patch, there's lots of places that people simply don't feel responsible for [19:12] <d_ed> anyway, that's my Plasma week [19:12] <Sho_> that's the advantage of kde's "common ownership" thing [19:13] <notmart> eh, i have the misfortune of having a patch in qwidgets :) [19:13] <Sho_> Riddell's next [19:13] <Riddell> nothing from me I'm afraid, although amsterdam was nice [19:13] <Riddell> no releases this week or for the next three [19:13] <notmart> so everyone is like "oh, like we used to have qwidgets, lol is even a thing anymore?" :p [19:13] <romangg> Riddell: any update on X Server update in Neon? [19:13] <Sho_> boo hiss [19:13] <Sho_> romangg you had to go [19:13] <Sho_> ! [19:14] <Sho_> :) [19:14] <romangg> yea, couldn't know you are all that quick :P [19:14] <Riddell> ug, x server update is scary and not something I'm keen to do [19:14] --> fekepp (~Thunderbi@195.37.61.178) has joined this channel. [19:14] <romangg> I mean what's the situation with Ubuntu 17.04 using X Server 1.19 or not. then it should be part of the next HWE stack. [19:15] <Sho_> maybe this is a #kde-neon breakout? [19:15] <Sho_> neon isn't technically plasma, sorry :) [19:15] <romangg> ok, np. [19:16] <Sho_> alright then it's my turn i guess [19:16] <Sho_> my plasma list is short, but i have a discussion point and a few questions [19:16] <Sho_> first the list [19:16] <Sho_> * [TM] Fixed applet status not reverting to passive when the last window in demands-attention state is closed (while keeping the status), interfered with panel auto-hide [19:16] <Sho_> * [Other] Was mostly busy with Konversation and Yakuake releases this week [19:16] --> NicoRod (~nico@200.127.54.64) has joined this channel. [19:16] <Sho_> (i have more detailed notes on the app stuff if anyone cares) [19:17] <Sho_> now i noticed the latte dock people did a major release -> http://psifidotos.blogspot.kr/2017/04/latte-dock-v06-fresh-air.html [19:17] <Riddell> latte? now I want a coffee [19:17] <Sho_> it looks pretty cool and they're getting pretty positive user feedback, and is a really nice showcase for plasma and frameworks (they use libtaskmanager extensively, etc.) [19:17] <Sho_> might be worth trying out, and looking both at how we can help them and what we can steal :-) [19:17] --> henriknj (~hnj@5.103.133.127) has joined this channel. [19:18] <Sho_> they even have a guy doing artwork, which begs the question why they're not part of the vdg [19:18] <Sho_> :) [19:18] --> JanKusanagi (~j...@23.67.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es) has joined this channel. [19:18] <Sho_> let's see what we can maybe to do pull them in closer [19:18] <romangg> the latte dock seems to be getting really good! [19:18] <notmart> and does pretty crazy things with windows (afaik has even its own shell if they didn't change plans) [19:18] <notmart> warned them in the past none of that would work on wayland, but whatever [19:19] <Sho_> notmart: yeah, but there is value in doing crazy experimental work, especially if it's third-party and doesn't cause any technical debt to the core [19:19] <-- fekepp (~Thunderbi@195.37.61.178) has left this server (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). [19:19] <Sho_> if they come up with a UX that's really winner, we can worry about how to do it on wayland later anyways [19:19] <notmart> well [19:19] <Riddell> romangg: it's being blocked in ubuntu 17.04 currently by qemu stuff https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/1671799 [19:19] <notmart> they were closer, and i really tried to help... [19:19] <romangg> Riddell: nice find. Thank you! [19:19] <-- pinheiro (~pinhe...@bl17-72-220.dsl.telepac.pt) has left this server (Remote host closed the connection). [19:20] <Sho_> notmart: it's rather the cool dock everybody raves about is presented by a blog post saying "we extensively use plasma and frameworks for this" than $competition :) [19:20] <notmart> then when one is told how to do a thing properly that would work and would look 100% the same, and goes "nah, i'll do my brittle hack instead and will go away" [19:20] <notmart> then for me is a bit... over [19:20] <-- jankusanagi_ (~j...@151.25.23.95.dynamic.jazztel.es) has left this server (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). [19:20] <llucas> Isn't latte a plasma fork, technically speaking? [19:20] <Sho_> notmart: sometimes people do this because they want results now and still need to learn the lesson about why it's wrong [19:21] <notmart> i guess so [19:21] --> pinheiro (~pinhe...@bl17-72-220.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined this channel. [19:21] <Sho_> but if they have the long-term motivation to keep working long enough to learn it and fix it later, ... [19:21] <Sho_> like i said, as long as it's third-party it's not like there's any real harm [19:21] <notmart> true [19:21] <Sho_> and it creates buzz for us [19:21] <-- friedrich (~friedr...@aextron.de) has left this server (Read error: Connection reset by peer). [19:22] <Sho_> it's just natural, we're the old farts now who worry and know how to do things "properly" ;) [19:22] <Sho_> anyways [19:22] <notmart> llucas: not really, because isn't a standalone shell, it's just a dock [19:22] <llucas> Ok [19:22] <Sho_> llucas: it's no forking, they didn't copy any code, they use libs correctly at least [19:23] <Sho_> i'm very very negative about calling anybody using our frameworks out for "forking" because plasma as a project has spent 10 years saying in public we've built these things to allow people to build crazy UIs [19:23] <Sho_> so when that actually happens it should be welcomed [19:23] <llucas> Yep understood, my mistake [19:23] <Sho_> np [19:23] <notmart> yep, indeed [19:23] <Sho_> anyhooow [19:23] <Sho_> next there's two tricky things i wanted to inquire about because they need some team think [19:24] <Sho_> the first is, ivan's been working on making kicker favorites kastats-based, which makes them per-activity, but also global and shared across all launcher instances [19:24] --> friedrich (~friedr...@aextron.de) has joined this channel. [19:24] <Sho_> the work has been progressing nicely and is getting closer to being merged [19:24] <Sho_> but i'm concerned about the migration process [19:24] <-- Delta-One (~zero@2001:2002:51e2:7ba1:6391:acc7:b55f:c617) has left this server (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). [19:25] <Sho_> right now the way migration works is that the first kicker-based launcher that kicks it off gets its favorites migrated, and then all others use the migrated favorites [19:25] <Sho_> which means there's a russian roulette race picking which faves to migrate and all the others get lost [19:25] <Sho_> i don't think that's good enough, but it's hard to code up something else [19:25] <Sho_> what do we do? [19:25] <notmart> so cases with multiple kickers with different favorites will be extremely rare, but the handful of users that have it will have it broken [19:26] <Sho_> not that rare actually [19:26] <Sho_> quite a few users use a regular kicker + dashboard with diff faves [19:26] <Sho_> (in fact, i expect angry bug reports about forcing them to be shared soon) [19:26] <notmart> another thing, would be on plasma size completely forget about whatever is stored, but have another process (a kconfigupdate?) [19:26] <notmart> that runs first and scans the whole configuration file [19:27] <notmart> then "merges" the favorites in one big lists and dumps it into kastats? [19:27] <Sho_> that sounds pretty good [19:27] <Sho_> we'd still lose sorting, but at least get the superset [19:27] <d_ed> why make it another process? [19:27] <d_ed> plasma has it's own scripted updates [19:27] <Sho_> it has? :D [19:27] <notmart> ah, as a scripted updated [19:27] <notmart> hm, yeah [19:28] <Sho_> (fwiw, i'll dump this chat log into the phab ticket for the thing so ivan is in the loop later) [19:28] <Sho_> i think we at the very least need the superset migration, data loss is imho not an option [19:28] <d_ed> ShellCorona::processUpdateScripts() [19:28] <notmart> a scripted updated may also be executed at the proper moment [19:29] <notmart> tough, is there any desktop scripting way to populate that? [19:29] <d_ed> to populate the activities DB? [19:29] <notmart> (that -> favorites in kastats) [19:29] <Sho_> i suddenly felt a dejavu [19:29] <Sho_> i think i remember telling ivan we need a kastats scripting api to populate global favs in plasma scripting [19:29] <Sho_> also for isv default favs ... [19:30] <Sho_> because i don't know how he intends to do distro default favs [19:30] <-- moofang (~l...@brk-24-218.tm.net.my) has left this server (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). [19:30] * Sho_ is getting concerned we can really do this for 5.10 still, even as advanced as the work is, and sponsor pressure to get it in [19:30] <-- friedrich (~friedr...@aextron.de) has left this server (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). [19:31] <Sho_> and tbh, as i said as far as 1-2 years ago, i'm still not even sure forcing all launchers to have the same favs is good and serves all users correctly [19:31] <notmart> are there places other people can work on? [19:31] <Sho_> sure [19:31] <Sho_> it's in a branch, so if you e.g. want to take a stab at the migration stuff, i'm sure ivan would appreciate it (and me) [19:31] <Sho_> the phab ticket is also up to date with all our testing correspondence and debuging/testing instructions [19:31] <Sho_> and even a testcase list [19:32] <notmart> again, would need api from desktop scripting tough [19:32] <notmart> but yeah, i can look into that [19:32] --> friedrich (~friedr...@aextron.de) has joined this channel. [19:32] --> stikonas (~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas) has joined this channel. [19:33] <Sho_> thanks [19:33] <-- palasso (~quassel@2a02:214d:8240:d800:c829:e838:d135:50) has left this server (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). [19:33] <Sho_> let's try to stay on that ball throughout this week [19:33] <Sho_> second thing i need to inquire about [19:34] <Sho_> due to me not paying attention, in the 5.8.x branch anthony got away with a dumb patch limiting the size of the TM group dialog which cuts off group popups and potentially doesn't show all tasks [19:34] <Sho_> i rewrote the dialog for 5.9.x so it now has a scrollbar, and much better keyboard nav and other fixes [19:34] <Sho_> i was going to backport this to 5.8.x after it saw some 5.9.x testing [19:35] <Sho_> and this has now become more urgent because of https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=378042 [19:35] <sKreamer> KDE bug 378042 in plasmashell (Task Manager) "Icons in Task Manager Dropdowns are too large, causing Dropdown to be clipped" [major,] https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=378042 [19:35] <Sho_> however [19:35] <Sho_> some users of the 5.9.x code report the rewritten dialog isn't scrollable for them -> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375937 [19:35] <sKreamer> KDE bug 375937 in plasmashell (Task Manager) "regression: task manager group menu no longer shows all windows" [normal,WAITINGFORINFO] https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=375937 [19:35] <Sho_> which makes the backport a shakier proposition [19:35] <Sho_> however, i can't reproduce this [19:35] <Sho_> i'd like others to test it and see if they can, so we can progress towards backporting it to 5.8.x [19:36] <d_ed> Sho_: got a branch name? [19:36] <d_ed> and/or phab link [19:38] <notmart> how is the logic? after how many windows/what size should it get a scrollbar? [19:38] <Sho_> d_ed: for the dialog or the faves? [19:38] <llucas> What about backporting a fix for system settings crash with qt 5.7.1? [19:38] <Sho_> notmart: the dialog is limited to like one third of screen height or something [19:39] <notmart> in master, getting the scrollbar correctly [19:39] <Sho_> d_ed: ivan/new-favourites-per-activity in plasma-desktop + https://phabricator.kde.org/D3805 [19:39] <sKreamer> Diff 3805 "Per-activity favorites (Final, again?)" [Needs Review] https://phabricator.kde.org/D3805 [19:40] <-- starbuck11 (~blue_s...@p57af5881.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has left this channel. [19:42] <notmart> wonder if that gentoo user has some weird version of frameworks or qt.. [19:44] --> palasso (~quassel@2a02:214d:8240:d800:c829:e838:d135:50) has joined this channel. [19:44] <Sho_> notmart: i'm considering just taking the risk an backporting the dialog to 5.8.x [19:44] <Sho_> worst case it won't break it /more/ since the 5.8.x code is already unscrollable [19:44] <notmart> yep [19:44] <Sho_> and if needs to be fixed later the same fix just goes into all branches [19:44] <notmart> i'm fine withit [19:45] <Sho_> ok, thanks [19:45] <Sho_> that's it from my side then [19:45] <Sho_> /meeting [19:45] <Sho_> :)
