You are trying to change the defintion of AE to match only what this dumb camera can do. if it cant continuously adjust exposure without any operator intervention then its not AE. IF every time you turn the aperture ring you need to take a new meter reading ( that's what your doing ) its NOT AE. If everytime your subject lighting changes and you have to take another meter reading, its NOT AE. AE means all these things are automatically and continuously compensated for and its not my definition its what K/M lenses can do. That's the AE we have been discussing and getting from K/M lenses not the green button technique which is far less automated and not continuous with respect to either aperture setting changes and lighting changes whatsoever. That's not AE. You can call it whatever you want, hyper-manual, metered-manual, SEMI_AUTOMATIC EXPOSURE ( SAE- my personal favorite) but it not AE and its not the K/M AE, its substantially less automatic. The stop down ALSO isnt as good either as already discussed at length in other threads. So essentally your trying to argue that something far less automated is the same as something far more and far more real user benefit automated are the same thing, they are not.
jco -----Original Message----- From: Adam Maas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:23 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Camera engineering (This is signifigant) That's incorrect. The Green button is Aperture Priority Auto Exposure, albeit via stop-down metering. You set the aperture, hit the green button and the shutter is automatically set, that's the definition of Aperture priority AE. This is essentially no different from having to partially depress the shutter to use Av in other modes. On the DS it's even closer to normal, as the AE button activates this functionality. The only part of the functionality you lose is the continuous adjustment when the meter is active (As the meter is only active for an instant) and open aperture metering. So this can be called crippled Aperture Priority AE but it's NOT metered Manual (Which requires you to set both aperture and shutter). Metered Manual on the D is via the DoF Preview, which provides a Meter Readout, whereupon you have to set Aperture and Shutter for the desired exposure. Not sure how this works on the DS, but I assume it does give a numerical readout in stops. (The DS lacks the D's metering readout bar) -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: > =============================================================== > WILLIAM ROBB WRITES in post quote BELOW: > > "I need to point out that AE is still available with K/M > lenses on Pentax digital cameras" > ============================================================== > NO ITS NOT. Green button thing is not AE by any stanards > of today or yesterday. Its metered manual. You have > to MANUALLY take a new meter reading every time you change the aperture > setting > which you don't have to do with AE and the camera does not continously > AUTOMATICALLY > adjust exposure for changes in subject or lighting either. > That what AE is. Continous AUTOMATIC exposure without > ANY need for operator intervention. When the operator > has to take new reading manually every time any of > these factors change its metered manual mode. > WHAT PART OF THIS DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND? > > So your entire premise below is false because > you have overlooked the key MAJOR difference between metered manual > and AE and you are mistakenly calling metered manual AE when it isnt. > K/M lenses can and have been providing true AE for 30 years, the green > button thing is like the old super-takumars of the 1960's. Stop down > metered manual. Not the same level of automation at all, and not > even close. > > JCO > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Robb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:32 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Camera engineering (This is signifigant) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J. C. O'Connell" > Subject: RE: Camera engineering (This is signifigant) > > > >>NICE COMEBACK - too bad it doesnt >>address the subject matter - BTW, if you think you are making me look >>retarded, then why are YOU the one trying run from the postions you >>took on the subject matter with a barage of personal >>attacks and NO SUBJECT MATTER REBUTALS WHATSOVER?? >>That's called a "diversion" tactic for losers. >>I suggest you post a followup clarifying and explaining the >>validity of those positions IF YOU CAN. I for one would >>love to see it. I am in the mood for some really >>good comedy actually,,, > > > John, I've answered your questions already, however, in the interest > of > redundancy, let me requote your questions, and see if I can't put my answer > into smaller words for you.... > > You asked: > "how can you say the program AE is important but COMPLETELY DROPPING > AE ALTOGETHER from K/M lenses with zero compatablity issues is fine?" > > As a preamble, I need to point out that AE is still available with K/M > lenses on Pentax digital cameras, so your point about completely dropping AE > > is wrong. > You should probably use a Pentax DSLR for a while before you make > blanket > statements that are incorrect. > > Most consumers want to buy a camera, and not have to do anything other > than > push the shutter button. They don't want to worry about, think about, or > have to know about camera exposure settings. > They buy SLR cameras mostly because they get sold on the idea of > interchangable lenses (though most of the time they take the kit zoom lens > and may buy a short telephoto zoom and nothing else), not because they want > more exposure controls that they most likely don't understand, nor want to > understand. > This I know from my years of selling equipment and serving customers at the > retail level. > Programmed AE is important to the bulk of amateur users, because this is how > > they want to operate the camera.Any other automatic exposure method > still > requires the user to input information into the camera. Users don't want > this, they want complete automation. > So, programmed exposure is important, since it allows the consumer to use > the camera the way he or she wants to use it, shutter or aperture preferred > automatic is not important, since they are exposure modes rarely used by > most camera users. > So, dropping aperture preferred AE as an exposure mode, had they done it, > wouldn't really be a big deal. > However, aperture controlled AE is still available on the Pentax DSLRs, > admitedly in a somewhat modified form, for those who want to use older > lenses, so the feature has not been completely dropped as you like to think > it is. > > William Robb > > > >
