hi Randall,
I am not necesarrily asking for more, better media, for more
livelyness, I am not sure I want more ...
I would like a content re-de-placement, more of the processes going on
(artistic and organisational) and les about results and "look what I
have done" I would like that there would be more slowness, more
attention, more time for open reflexion on what has been done, less
representation and for now i see that still more in the mailinglist
than on the social media. I think we should reinvent reinvest
mailinglists! Netbehaviour first of all.
see you
Annie
On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 5:44 PM, Randall Packer <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I’m not sure where to set into this thread, which has become
multi-threaded in all sorts of interesting directions.
Regarding Geert: without going into a complete analysis, it’s not
clear to me that he is aware of the many museums in the US and the
around the world that are employing social media and what is
called “user-generated content” in all sorts of compelling ways
that invite engagement and social change. I have taught courses in
the Johns Hopkins University Museum Studies program where the
students are deeply involved with museum-based social and “visitor
engagement,” to use another museum term. I believe the interview
does have a few absolutes that have not been thoroughly
researched, although I have the utmost respect for Geert and his
critique of corporate-based social media: it’s just not fair to
museums that are making striking progress, and of course the many
alternative arts organizations, maker-faires, and hack-a-thons
around the world that are incorporating socially-based forms of
art and science.
Regarding Annie’s concern for place: I agree, we need the means of
interaction that while remote, give us a more real-time, visual,
media-rich form of interaction and engagement. I enjoy the ease
and simplicity of an email list, but there are times you want to
see faces, hear voices, trade gestures, communicate with sound,
all of which is near impossible in this medium as a live
experience. There is no replacing the live: we need to embed the
real-time into our networked interactions, which for many of us
here has been at the heart of our artistic work and research. We
are all nodes on a network, and we need to find ways to engage
forms of live connectivity that are as easy as sending an email.
Randall
From: <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of Annie
Abrahams
Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 10:55 AM
To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] An interview with Geert Lovink
I have been to a shop to buy some coffee beans and while riding my
bike, I thought : wasn't I a bit nasty to
furtherfield/netbehaviour? When back I found some reactions that
reassured me, but
I had been thinking that somehow I was a bit sour on
furtherfield/netbehaviour and I asked myself why, what would you
like to be different, to change?
A small idea popped up : I miss the connexion between furtherfield
live in the park (where I imagine a lot of the work is happening)
and furtherfield online - especially netbehaviour. Of course there
are the announcements, info on the works showed of people I know
online, but I miss thoughts by these actual artists who showed,
worked with the real place on what is going on, on how the
relation is constructed, of what their work does when place in a
gallery place. I miss personal stories on this on netbehaviour.
xxx
Annie
On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Pall Thayer <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Fascinating read. On gallery and museum embrace of
post-internet art, I think there are two things going on.
First of all, it's new and it's acceptance in galleries and
museums is probably not much greater than internet art's
acceptance was when it was new. Second of all, most of it
takes forms which galleries and museums are familiar with,
i.e. physical objects, prints, videos, etc. This is a far more
attractive fit for commercial art galleries and doesn't pose
any significant archiving issues for museums. At least, not
ones that they haven't encountered before.
Pall
On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 10:26 AM marc garrett
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Paul, Dave, Annie & all,
Regarding Geert's interview -- I actually agree with most
of what he says. In fact, I tend to agree with most of his
ideas and writings.
I think as a group, we're in tune (usually coincidentally
with his reflections) but, living through them within a
grounded context, which is of our everyday life experience
and as part of surviving as an artist led group in a
neoliberalist dominated culture.
The audience he's talking to is an e-flux audience, and I
think e-flux are part of an neoliberalist, elite
establishment, so it's positive he is discussing these
issues to its audience.
Although, Paul has mentioned already things have been
getting better and there is evidence of things gettign
better. I would say that's true in some ways, but it may
also be true that some of us have got older and into power
and so able to support media art and net art more these
days. And before this was not the case ;-)
Wishing you well.
marc
On 30 September 2015 at 14:07, Paul Hertz
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Well, happy to post polemics, it's a kind of a hobby.
:^}.
I think there has been a tendency for mainstream
curators to approach more recent digitally-mediated
works as if they were in effect a sort of hybrid old
media, while still neglecting both historical and
current "pure" digital media. This has meant that
certain kinds of digital hard copy (modded
photographic prints, collage and drawings, and even 3D
printing == "post-digital") can be welcomed while the
internet as a platform is generally ignored. I don't
have any more evidence for this than observation, and
I have felt that the situation for digital art was
improving over the last ten years. OTOH, I can readily
understand the impatience.
-- Paul
On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 7:56 AM, dave miller
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I think Geert is probably correct though - seems
to me the art "establishment" aren't interested in
internet/ digital art, though maybe they have a
different view of it from us on here. The art
world remains a mystery to me, so I may well be
wrong. Thank god for Furtherfield, and I would
love to know who are the curators 'not' scared of it.
What's the ‘post-digital’ bandwagon?
Dave
On 30 September 2015 at 13:48, Annie Abrahams
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
don't be small, don't think sectarism
Geert is closer to "us" than most "others"
get in contact with him, explain and connect,
use his critical energy
invite him to curate, to build, to discuss
xxx
Annie
On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 2:40 PM, NIKOS V
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I see the relevance in this approach,
allthough I have to say its allready to
late for that criticism no?
Moreover, is he really interested in art?
If yes, as Marc says, where are the
references and the names ?
And why is Venice Biennial important?To
whom????
2015-09-30 15:36 GMT+03:00 marc.garrett
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>:
Hi Paul,
Geert needs to be more specific and
highlight the curators who are 'not'
scared and who have been showing
technical artwork such as Furtherifeld
& others - his words are not grounded
and are too absolute, they do not
reflect reality...
marc
http://conversations.e-flux.com/t/geert-lovink-on-social-media-and-the-arts/2581
"The absence at the 2015 Venice
Bienale of digital arts and internet
works says it all. Curators are
afraid to admit they are clueless and
continue their ignorant attitude
towards art that deals with the
digital in a direct matter (while
checking their smart phone). Everyone
jumps on the ‘post-digital’ bandwagon
because that’s cute and safe. [...]
Curators and critics are more than
happy to embrace the race, gender,
even the anthroposcene (whatever that
is), but are blind for the
techno-politics of the equipment and
media they are using themselves so
intensely. The contradictions are
becoming absurd. Video was the last
technology they had to deal with, but
then it stopped."
— Geert Lovink
//
enjoy,
-- Paul
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aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/vivre-entre-from-estranger-to-e-stranger/
<https://aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/vivre-entre-from-estranger-to-e-stranger/>/*
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/*besides, *
/online performances *On Object Agency *
with Martina Ruhsam
*archives* (text, script, video, images)*/
/*bram.org/besides/ <http://bram.org/besides/>
*Marc Garrett* interviewed me for the *Choose
Your Muse* series on *Furtherfield*
furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams
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festival Magdalena, * La Bulle Bleue
<http://www.labullebleue.fr/#%21/magdalenaproject>, 285 rue du Mas
de Prunet, Montpellier
aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/vivre-entre-from-estranger-to-e-stranger/
<https://aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/vivre-entre-from-estranger-to-e-stranger/>/*
*/
/*besides, *
/online performances *On Object Agency *
with Martina Ruhsam
*archives* (text, script, video, images)*/
/*bram.org/besides/ <http://bram.org/besides/>
*Marc Garrett* interviewed me for the *Choose Your Muse* series on
*Furtherfield*
furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams
<http://www.furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams>
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festival Magdalena, * La Bulle Bleue
<http://www.labullebleue.fr/#%21/magdalenaproject>, 285 rue du Mas de
Prunet, Montpellier
aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/vivre-entre-from-estranger-to-e-stranger/
<https://aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/vivre-entre-from-estranger-to-e-stranger/>/*
*/
/*besides, *
/online performances *On Object Agency *
with Martina Ruhsam
*archives* (text, script, video, images)*/
/*bram.org/besides/ <http://bram.org/besides/>
*Marc Garrett* interviewed me for the *Choose Your Muse* series on
*Furtherfield*
furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams
<http://www.furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams>
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