I’m not sure where to set into this thread, which has become multi-threaded in all sorts of interesting directions.
Regarding Geert: without going into a complete analysis, it’s not clear to me that he is aware of the many museums in the US and the around the world that are employing social media and what is called “user-generated content” in all sorts of compelling ways that invite engagement and social change. I have taught courses in the Johns Hopkins University Museum Studies program where the students are deeply involved with museum-based social and “visitor engagement,” to use another museum term. I believe the interview does have a few absolutes that have not been thoroughly researched, although I have the utmost respect for Geert and his critique of corporate-based social media: it’s just not fair to museums that are making striking progress, and of course the many alternative arts organizations, maker-faires, and hack-a-thons around the world that are incorporating socially-based forms of art and science. Regarding Annie’s concern for place: I agree, we need the means of interaction that while remote, give us a more real-time, visual, media-rich form of interaction and engagement. I enjoy the ease and simplicity of an email list, but there are times you want to see faces, hear voices, trade gestures, communicate with sound, all of which is near impossible in this medium as a live experience. There is no replacing the live: we need to embed the real-time into our networked interactions, which for many of us here has been at the heart of our artistic work and research. We are all nodes on a network, and we need to find ways to engage forms of live connectivity that are as easy as sending an email. Randall From: <[email protected]> on behalf of Annie Abrahams Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 10:55 AM To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] An interview with Geert Lovink I have been to a shop to buy some coffee beans and while riding my bike, I thought : wasn't I a bit nasty to furtherfield/netbehaviour? When back I found some reactions that reassured me, but I had been thinking that somehow I was a bit sour on furtherfield/netbehaviour and I asked myself why, what would you like to be different, to change? A small idea popped up : I miss the connexion between furtherfield live in the park (where I imagine a lot of the work is happening) and furtherfield online - especially netbehaviour. Of course there are the announcements, info on the works showed of people I know online, but I miss thoughts by these actual artists who showed, worked with the real place on what is going on, on how the relation is constructed, of what their work does when place in a gallery place. I miss personal stories on this on netbehaviour. xxx Annie On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Pall Thayer <[email protected]> wrote: Fascinating read. On gallery and museum embrace of post-internet art, I think there are two things going on. First of all, it's new and it's acceptance in galleries and museums is probably not much greater than internet art's acceptance was when it was new. Second of all, most of it takes forms which galleries and museums are familiar with, i.e. physical objects, prints, videos, etc. This is a far more attractive fit for commercial art galleries and doesn't pose any significant archiving issues for museums. At least, not ones that they haven't encountered before. Pall On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 10:26 AM marc garrett <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Paul, Dave, Annie & all, Regarding Geert's interview -- I actually agree with most of what he says. In fact, I tend to agree with most of his ideas and writings. I think as a group, we're in tune (usually coincidentally with his reflections) but, living through them within a grounded context, which is of our everyday life experience and as part of surviving as an artist led group in a neoliberalist dominated culture. The audience he's talking to is an e-flux audience, and I think e-flux are part of an neoliberalist, elite establishment, so it's positive he is discussing these issues to its audience. Although, Paul has mentioned already things have been getting better and there is evidence of things gettign better. I would say that's true in some ways, but it may also be true that some of us have got older and into power and so able to support media art and net art more these days. And before this was not the case ;-) Wishing you well. marc On 30 September 2015 at 14:07, Paul Hertz <[email protected]> wrote: Well, happy to post polemics, it's a kind of a hobby. :^}. I think there has been a tendency for mainstream curators to approach more recent digitally-mediated works as if they were in effect a sort of hybrid old media, while still neglecting both historical and current "pure" digital media. This has meant that certain kinds of digital hard copy (modded photographic prints, collage and drawings, and even 3D printing == "post-digital") can be welcomed while the internet as a platform is generally ignored. I don't have any more evidence for this than observation, and I have felt that the situation for digital art was improving over the last ten years. OTOH, I can readily understand the impatience. -- Paul On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 7:56 AM, dave miller <[email protected]> wrote: I think Geert is probably correct though - seems to me the art "establishment" aren't interested in internet/ digital art, though maybe they have a different view of it from us on here. The art world remains a mystery to me, so I may well be wrong. Thank god for Furtherfield, and I would love to know who are the curators 'not' scared of it. What's the ‘post-digital’ bandwagon? Dave On 30 September 2015 at 13:48, Annie Abrahams <[email protected]> wrote: don't be small, don't think sectarism Geert is closer to "us" than most "others" get in contact with him, explain and connect, use his critical energy invite him to curate, to build, to discuss xxx Annie On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 2:40 PM, NIKOS V <[email protected]> wrote: I see the relevance in this approach, allthough I have to say its allready to late for that criticism no? Moreover, is he really interested in art? If yes, as Marc says, where are the references and the names ? And why is Venice Biennial important?To whom???? 2015-09-30 15:36 GMT+03:00 marc.garrett <[email protected]>: Hi Paul, Geert needs to be more specific and highlight the curators who are 'not' scared and who have been showing technical artwork such as Furtherifeld & others - his words are not grounded and are too absolute, they do not reflect reality... marc http://conversations.e-flux.com/t/geert-lovink-on-social-media-and-the-arts/2581 "The absence at the 2015 Venice Bienale of digital arts and internet works says it all. Curators are afraid to admit they are clueless and continue their ignorant attitude towards art that deals with the digital in a direct matter (while checking their smart phone). Everyone jumps on the ‘post-digital’ bandwagon because that’s cute and safe. [...] Curators and critics are more than happy to embrace the race, gender, even the anthroposcene (whatever that is), but are blind for the techno-politics of the equipment and media they are using themselves so intensely. The contradictions are becoming absurd. Video was the last technology they had to deal with, but then it stopped." — Geert Lovink // enjoy, -- Paul -- ----- |(*,+,#,=)(#,=,*,+)(=,#,+,*)(+,*,=,#)| --- http://paulhertz.net/ _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list [email protected]http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list [email protected] http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour -- _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list [email protected] http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour -- 26 09 14h vivre entre – from estranger to e-stranger, une conférence performée festival Magdalena, La Bulle Bleue, 285 rue du Mas de Prunet, Montpellier aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/vivre-entre-from-estranger-to-e-stranger/ besides, online performances On Object Agency with Martina Ruhsam archives (text, script, video, images) bram.org/besides/ Marc Garrett interviewed me for the Choose Your Muse series on Furtherfield furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list [email protected] http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list [email protected] http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour -- ----- |(*,+,#,=)(#,=,*,+)(=,#,+,*)(+,*,=,#)| --- http://paulhertz.net/ _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list [email protected] http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list [email protected] http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour -- P Thayer, Artist http://pallthayer.dyndns.org _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list [email protected] http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour -- 26 09 14h vivre entre – from estranger to e-stranger, une conférence performée festival Magdalena, La Bulle Bleue, 285 rue du Mas de Prunet, Montpellier aabrahams.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/vivre-entre-from-estranger-to-e-stranger/ besides, online performances On Object Agency with Martina Ruhsam archives (text, script, video, images) bram.org/besides/ Marc Garrett interviewed me for the Choose Your Muse series on Furtherfield furtherfield.org/features/interviews/choose-your-muse-interview-annie-abrahams _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list [email protected] http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
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