Renee, I think the question here, though, is what is going on with this student? Why is she having trouble? Why is she inconsistent? Why can she do it some days and not others? This doesn't look like the dyslexics I have known. We are also so quick to point to 'processing'... but every person seems to have a different definition of what that means.
I am wondering about attention. If a student is not paying attention to information, then it doesn't go into memory. Many kids with true ADD have those patterns of inconsistency. The other piece that has not been discussed yet is oral language skills...particularly receptive language. If a child is slow to process oral language, then language in print often follows. AND, if oral language skills are weak, comprehension skills are often weak too. It just makes sense. Look at your speech pathologists caseloads and the reading specialist caseloads in a school and they often overlap. BUT, how often do we as classroom teachers and reading specialists think about how we can enrich oral language in order to build reading skills? And as I posted earlier, we often forget to look at health related issues. I can't tell you how many reading problems I have seen eased or even resolved by seeing that a child needs glasses, having the hearing checked or making sure that the child was getting 3 square meals or some time with the guidance counselor for emotional issues. I wonder if this child, when she has her good days, what cue system she is relying on? Is she sight word reading? Or is she truly decoding? Does she do better in different kinds of text? Does she do better when reading something she has background knowledge about or is interested in? It would be interesting to compare what she is reading on her good days and bad days and look for patterns. It is often more productive to build on the strengths she has when teaching her to read than try to remediate deficits. It is the principle behind reading recovery...research proven... build on student strengths. I personally do not use nonsense word inventories because I believe that decoding is an integrated process which uses meaning and syntax along with the visual cue system. I believe you don't get to the root of a decoding problem without looking at it holistically. That is my belief based on what my personal definition of reading is... and when we get into belief systems, we once again run up onto dangerous ground on this list. Note that I said I BELIEVE in all my statements in this paragraph. We have talked about this issue of phonics and fluency so many times before. Whether or not you believe that decoding and phonics can and should be assessed in isolation depends upon your belief about what reading is. I believe reading to be a holistic process with the end goal of comprehension. Comprehension informs and improves decoding and vice versa. I am laying that out there so folks who may not agree with me can at least understand my thinking process. So given my belief system, when I read the research, I get from it the idea that effective decoding/spelling instruction involves opportunities for students to compare and contrast sounds and words, allows them to build on what is known, is targeted to developmental levels of students and INCLUDES meaning as part of instruction. (ie... think about the words that are spelled the same but pronounced differently based on the content...think "tire" as in a car tire, and "tire" as in fatigue...meaning plays an important role in word identification) For those interested in this research, start with the Words Their Way series. Good stuff and in my experience it really, really works with all types of students!!! Now as we continue this discussion, as we respond to this thread, remember that first we have different beliefs. Please seek to understand and clarify someone's post before responding to it and before expressing your own beliefs. Remember that we are diverse... some terms and words mean very different things to us and we may not really understand what a person is trying to say on his or her post. When you are posting a belief, back it up with why you believe what you believe and back it up with research and or your personal experiences. I believe in this listserv. I believe in the people on it. I thrive on your passion, your dedication and your knowledge. When we get into the phonics and/or assessment issues, our passion sometimes leads us into angry words and hurt feelings. We need each other on this list. With Common core, RTI, the reauthorization of NCLB, etc etc. the demands on us are increasing exponentially and not all of us have the same background, education or experiences. So, Renee and others, can you give us a little more detail? Share once again, what you have done to help students who might have good oral language comprehension but are inhibited in their reading because they have trouble figuring out what the words say? What do you do if a child has poor oral language to begin with? Can you give some reasoning behind your definition of comprehension? What are your beliefs and where did those beliefs come from? What happens when a kid is stumbling so much they can't get to thepoint of comprehension? How did you diagnose the root causes for that? I am calling on you all to share your wealth of knowledge with clarity and respect for the beliefs and levels of knowledge and experience of others on this list. Let's continue to learn and grow together. Jennifer L. Palmer Instructional Facilitator National Board Certified Teacher Magnolia Elementary (home school) 901 Trimble Road Joppa, MD 21085 410-612-1553 Fax 410-612-1576 "In every child a touch of greatness!!' Proud of our Title One School Norrisville Elementary 5302 Norrisville Road White Hall, MD 21161 410-692-7810 Fax 410-692-7812 Where Bright Futures Begin!! ________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of Renee [[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:25 AM To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Processing Question I don't think I would worry about any student "remembering the silent e rule" or the "when two vowels go walking" rule. That's not reading; that's just mimicking rules. How much reading of "easier" texts does this student do? That, to me, would be the best way to increase fluency (unless, of course, fluency is being measure by speed/accuracy only in a cold reading with possible above ZPD level text... in that case.... well, don't get me started). Can the student recognize/read rhyming words when presented in a simple poem? That would be more telling than being able to recognize them when put side by side in front of her. Is she kinesthetic? Visual? Do pictures help her understand text? Off the top of my head, if a student is THAT inconsistent, then it seems like there may be something else going on, some kind of disability. I personally would not rely on a phonics assessment, especially one that required decoding words in isolation, and even more especially one that requires decoding nonsense words. Comprehension is about context and connection and being able to retell main parts of a story. Decoding out of context is just barking, in my opinion. Renee On Apr 10, 2012, at 5:23 AM, Sunshine Barker wrote: > I would do the CORE phonics assessment. You should assess her decoding > words > in isolation along with decoding nonsense words. Is there dyslexia in > the > family? I would explore dyslexia as a possibility. > > > -- > Sunshine Barker > Reading Teacher > Hoffmann Lane Elementary > > > > On 4/9/12 1:37 PM, "Megan Dorsay" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi everyone, >> I was asked to test a 2nd grader who has been in our District since >> Kindergarten. Her Benchmarking scores (MAP and Aimsweb) red-flagged >> her for >> Intervention. The teacher agreed. Fluency and comprehension are low >> but she is >> wildly inconsistent day to day. >> She is getting the Horizons Intervention program 4x/week plus an >> extra dose of >> guided reading one-on-one 4x/week. She is not making appropriate >> progress >> according to progress monitoring and the running records, and oral >> and visual >> assessments of the teachers. She is totally inconsistent in her >> knowledge. One >> day, she reads well and answers questions. The next day, she cannot >> remember >> the "silent e" rule or the "When two vowels go walking..." or she >> will have >> trouble recognizing rhyming words, even when they are placed in a row >> in front >> of her. >> The teacher and Interventionist are stumped. (Me too!) >> Does anyone have any thoughts on strategies we could use or any >> professional >> books I could buy that would give us strategies to help her simple >> recall? >> Also, any information on processing issues would be so helpful as >> well. I >> don't have a huge background in that area. >> Thank you!! >> Megan Dorsay >> District Reading Specialist >> Skokie District 73.5 >> 8000 E. Prairie Rd. >> Skokie, IL 60076 >> McCracken Middle School >> 847-676-8204 >> Middleton Elementary >> 847-676-8035 >> [email protected] >> ________________________________________ >> From: [email protected] >> [[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> Sally >> Thomas [[email protected]] >> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 8:30 PM >> To: mosaic listserve >> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] School wide reading. >> >> I HIGHLY recommend the book Day to Day Assessment in the reading >> Workshop; Making informed Instructional Decision in Grades 3 - 6. By >> Sibberson and Szymusiak. Honestly I taught a reading workshop >> classroom for >> years grades 5 - 6. Much of my doctoral research had to do with >> intrinsic >> motivation and also assessment (the good kind ) as integral to >> intrinsic >> motivation. This book is absolutely excellent in describinb the >> thinking >> and classroom practices that least to highly engaged and effective >> reading - >> the independent reading so critical along with some of the other >> balanced >> literacy needed - to complete the whole!!! Please please please >> check it >> out. It works for primary and middle school, probably hgih school if >> you >> have the flexible mindset that can see the underlying assumptions of >> the >> practices and figure out how to make them work at the different >> levels. >> >> Sally thomas >> >> >> On 4/8/12 4:42 PM, "Jennifer Olimpieri" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi. I work in a k-5 school as a reading consultant. We currently >>> have a >>> monthly calendar that kids turn in to get a small prize. At the end >>> of the >>> year the get recognized, so on and so forth. However, the program is >>> old and >>> not very enticing. The younger ones are usually the ones turning in >>> their >>> calendars but mostly it is ineffective anymore. I would like to >>> revitalize a >>> school wide reading program. Does anyone have fresh and exciting >>> ideas that >>> is >>> easily recordable but effective? I would live to hear ideas out >>> there. >>> Thanks! >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mosaic mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >>> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/ >>> mosaic_literacyworkshop.org >>> >>> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mosaic mailing list >> [email protected] >> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/ >> mosaic_literacyworkshop.org >> >> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive >> >> Skokie School District 73 1/2 >> >> The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for >> the >> confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. If the reader of >> this >> message is not the intended recipient, you have received this >> document in >> error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of >> this >> message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error, >> please >> notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mosaic mailing list >> [email protected] >> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/ >> mosaic_literacyworkshop.org >> >> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive >> > > > ________________________________ > > This e-mail and any attachments may contain legally privileged or > confidential information. If you received this message in error or are > not the intended recipient, you should immediately delete this e-mail > message and any attachments or copies. Do not retain, distribute, or > use any information contained herein. Please inform the sender if you > have received this message in error via a return e-mail message. Thank > you for your cooperation. > > _______________________________________________ > Mosaic mailing list > [email protected] > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive > > "Learning isn't a means to an end; it is an end in itself." ~ Robert A. Heinlein _______________________________________________ Mosaic mailing list [email protected] To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive _______________________________________________ Mosaic mailing list [email protected] To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive
