On 8/26/20 7:02 PM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote:
I'm not sure where you think money comes into this, unless you are
admitting that moving to mm3 requires expensive consulting contracts.
I've turned down 2 large orgs that had trouble migrating from mm2 to mm3
and needed a 3rd party to bail them out. Brian, I recall referring one
of them to you. So, I guess, money does come into play. Fear is
another interesting choice of words. Do you think that the fear might
be due to someone repeating over and over that this open source project
is dead and will only be in maintenance mode (life support?) going
forward?
Because the main reason why Mailman 2 has seen the popular use that it
does is because of budget hosts that offered cPanel and Plesk
environments. Both of them included Mailman 2 with their packages. I do
know some hosting control panels are starting to drop support for
Mailman 2 and that will continue to grow. I personally don't think
Mailman 3 will see as large of an adoption rate as Mailman 2. That is
because cheap hosting companies are not interested in quality but
quantity. cPanel will probably never adopt Mailman 3. Dreamhost said no
to it and will keep Mailman 2 for now. Why? Because Mailman 3 requires a
more complex environment. However, my opinion, most well developed apps
do. So SaaS providers such as myself will play a more important role in
the propagation of Mailman 3. That's not a bad thing. At least Mailman 3
will have providers who will provide expert and conscientious support of
Mailman 3 than some of these budget hosts (looking at you A2).
I think what prevents folks like you and Carl, ultimately, is fear of
the unknown. Mailman 3 does not require expensive consulting contracts.
I made a $150 bucks from your referral. That doesn't break no one's
budget. Also I would appreciate if you keep our private conversations
off of a public mailing list.
Mark is simply saying it doesn't make sent to continue to build up a
retired application (MM2) and instead focus their limited resources on a
young stallion called MM3. There is nothing wrong with that. Go to
someone else for the development of MM2.
Let's recognize that mm3 has been around for 10 years, and during that
time mm2 has been expanded and enhanced over and over. The difference
now is that the gatekeeper who was doing that wants to move on, and
should have the right and support to move on.
Well fine, then let those hosts take on the > responsibility of
keeping Mailman 2 up to date. That is what open source > is all about.
That, *that* ^^^, is my point. I want to take that on, I want to work
with contributors to commit their vetted and tested patches into the mm2
branch, I've basically been told to go somewhere else to do it. I think
who/m ever takes it on should be part of the Mailman Team. There is
absolutely no reason against, and there are certainly several examples
for, having 2 or more active development branches in an open source (or
closed source for that matter) project.
So go to cPanel forums to request that or Dreamhost, or others. I am
pretty sure you will not like the answer you will get from them. Why
wouldn't you just spend your efforts to migrate to Mailman 3? I just
don't see the logic in your efforts here.
I didn't like Postorius or Hyperkitty (still don't, sorry Mark and Abs).
So due to that beautiful REST api, I made my own path. At the end of the
day, its still Mailman 3 that I am using. Modern web development offers
so much choices and potentials these days for users. It's just sad that
Mailman 2 will never see those choices and potentials because it just
doesn't have the foundation to do so. It is dead in the water. But it is
resurrected in Mailman 3.
--
Please let me know if you need further assistance.
Thank you for your business. We appreciate our clients.
Brian Carpenter
EMWD.com
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